← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
SCOTUS Secrets During Dobbs Decision, with Mollie Hemingway, and Meghan Markle's FAILED Australia Tour, with Rob Shuter | Ep. 1299
01:41:50
Megyn Kelly discusses the latest update on America's war in Iran, new reporting on what's really happening behind the scenes, the status of negotiations and what it will take to end the war, and more. Then Mollie Hemingway, author of "Alito," joins to discuss why Justices Alito and Thomas are likely to not retire this year, the potential Chief Justice Roberts is actually the one who might retire before the midterms, the inside story of what really happened at the Supreme Court during the Dobbs decision, how the liberal justices delayed their dissent putting the lives of their conservative colleagues in danger, the real role Chief Justice Roberts played behind-the-scenes, and more. Then Rob Shuter, author of "It Started With a Whisper," joins to discuss inside info about what it was like to work for J.Lo from her former publicist, the truth about J.Lo's relationship with Ben Affleck, why no one wants to work with Blake Lively in Hollywood, the truth about her talent and future caree...
Loading summary
Transcript137 lines
- [00:01]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and Happy Monday. We have a lot to get to. Journalist and celebrity insider Rob Shooter will be here. He's got some big scoops on Meghan and Harry and much, much more. This guy knows everyone and everything inside of Hollywood and is out with a new book. But first, the latest on the war with Iran. The clock now ticking on the fragile ceasefire which is set to expire tomorrow night. It's not going well. According to multiple reports, Vice President J.D. vance will head to Islamabad, Pakistan today for a second round of talks with the Iranians, despite the fact that Iran has not publicly agreed to these discussions. In fact, it seems to not want them. But then kind of telegraphs, maybe it's going to show. We don't know whether they're going to show up. At first, they refused to negotiate, saying the U.S. was, quote, insisting on some unreasonable and unrealistic positions, including the ongoing, ongoing naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. They want us to stop doing that. The US over the weekend even seizing an Iranian flagged cargo ship as part of the blockade. It was trying to flout the blockade and found out the hard way that we meant what we said when we said we're not going to lift it yet. But then Reuters today reporting that the regime is now, quote, positively reviewing whether to go to Islamabad. Part of this is because you've got like the one guy who's the speaker of, like, their parliament, who's more reasonable in the way he talks about negotiations and so on. And you have the IRGC that's also running the country. And the messaging, we really don't know which one is more in control. My money would be on the militarized irgc. And they have a very different agenda and very different messaging. Don't know who's really in control. At some point, I guess we'll find out. President Trump also brushing off the Iranian threats, telling the New York Post that talks with Vice President Vance, Special envoy Steve Wyckoff and adviser Jared Kushner and the Iranians will happen. And that if it's necessary, President Trump would meet with the Iranians himself. Look, it's become very clear, very clear, especially thanks to a very in depth Wall Street Journal report over the weekend, which you should all read. I mean, it was a st. I've, I've been in news a long time, 25 years. I have never Seen a report that in depth on the number of issues that have been in debate in the public eye on one specific issue, namely the Iran war. It's, I have to say, an incredible piece of reporting. It's by Josh Dawson and Annie Lynskey and it was published on the 18th. Stunning. But that makes clear that Trump is, I think their word is desperate to bring this thing to a close. It talks all about how he overestimated how quickly he could get in and get out based on the word of Benjamin Netanyahu and the assurances. We learned that in the New York Times last week. It's reiterated here in the Wall Street Journal. He thought he could get in and get out. He was enamored with what happened in Venezuela, exactly as we surmised here on this program, and was surprised and stunned to see how the Iranians would not roll over. He believed that they could not take over the Strait of Hormuz. He was surprised and stunned to see that they did. That just one simple drone could potentially stop traffic in the Strait. And he is learning the hard way how difficult these people are to negotiate with, never mind to get them to bend the knee. So his frustration appears to be palpable inside the White House where the reports from the Wall Street Journal are that when we were trying to retrieve that one missing co pilot in that flight, he was in an all out panic and was so worried that he was setting himself up for a Jimmy Carter like moment that the negotiators around him, the people who were following what the military was doing, wouldn't even update him. They isolated him and ignored him because they thought he might queer the deal somehow. And he was so on edge about his political fortunes, depending on finding this co pilot or the wizzo, that they then cut the President of the United States out of the ongoing information flow. It's just, it's a stunning report all around and makes very clear what the New York Times made clear last week, which is President Trump was told a bunch of things by Netanyahu. Our own security team told him very different things when he met with them, saying, don't believe him. He's tried to tell everybody this. It's not going to go as easily as he says. And Trump ultimately made his own decision. It's not like Netanyahu made the ultimate decision. Trump did that. He believed Netanyahu and he believed in his own, I don't know, virality, based on what happened in Venezuela, based on what happened with those June nuclear plant strikes in Iran and you know, he said, let's go for it. And he learned the hard way, just like every American president who starts a war in the Middle east learns, it's not that simple. The bomb dropping phase of the war, as General McChrystal suggested, is the most enjoyable phase for the ones dropping the bombs. And everything after that is downhill, especially in the Middle east, where they're motherfuckers and they love quagmire and they know how to do it, and that's what we're dealing with right now. President Trump is telling the Post that there is one non negotiable demand, quote, get rid of their nuclear weapons. That's all very simple. There will be no nuclear weapon. That's a great demand. We should be praising that. If President Trump will stay there, we can end this thing relatively quickly. It's all these other things that the Israelis are demanding, like we've got to get the nuclear dust that are posing problems. Right. The Iranians are like, the Nuclear dust is 60ft underground at Natanz and Fordo and these other sites that we struck back in June covered in layers and layers of rubble. Like, we can't get it, we don't want to get it. It's not safe to get it. And we're certainly not going to be enriching it further. And that is something President Trump said himself two weeks ago. You remember Mark Levin did a big show on Sunday night saying we got to get the dust, we got to go in there and get the enriched uranium. And President Trump posted on True Social right around there that we don't have to worry about that because it's so underground and because he said, President Trump said, we have satellites that have eyes on this stuff and we will know if anybody tries to retrieve it. Well, now it's changed into like this non negotiable deal term, at least in last week's iteration. And it's one that the Israelis want, it's one that Levin wants. And Trump had earlier told us it was an unnecessary one, but it wound up in our non negotiables. Well, now today he sounds a little different because the Iranians have dug in on that, saying we're not, we're not doing that, not getting any nuclear dust, that it's a no. But we believe that there is room to agree on no nuclear weapons. And there a negotiation started last week on just how long, how long before they can do enrichment again. They say it's for an energy program. We say, no, it's not. But either way, our main goal is just to delay it, get them to write down and obey with ideally third party monitoring, although that's not been explicitly discussed. But it must be part of the deal. How long? We want 20 years, they want five. So that's somewhat, you know, that's some progress. If they're giving a number and we're giving a number, negotiation practices would dictate we're going to wind up someplace in the middle and this thing could come to an end. If we're going to stick to no nuclear weapon, no nuclear enrichment, and forget the damn dust. There were some discussions last week, possibly we'll they'll get the dust. And then we wanted them to give it to us and then they said, no, we're going to keep it. And then there was like, maybe a third party will get it. And that's what President Trump suggested. And then the Iranians said f that no, we keep the dust. We don't know where the dust dance. Where has the dust settled? We don't know. One of the many things that they will be arguing over. Hopefully not, but looks like yes, we'll see. Based on Trump's latest messaging. We don't know this week. Okay. It needs to come to an end for so many reasons. Even if you're in favor of the war, you must see that because this war is undoubtedly hurting the GOP's already bleak chances in the midterms. I mean, seriously hurting. President Trump's not on the ballot. But would you like to, if you're a Republican or a right leaning Independent, keep. I mean, the House seems gone, but there's no point in endangering the Senate. For the love of God, we do not want to endanger the Senate and we don't want to even lose unnecessary Senate seats. Like, even if we don't lose it on the right. You don't want to lose two seats that you wouldn't otherwise have lost because of Israel and Iran. All right, in this conflict, because we're not set up to do any better in 2028. In fact, the GOP has many more seats to defend in 2028. So it'd be nice if they could stem the tide of losses, at least on the Senate side come November. Right now, there's one issue that could have galvanized Republicans and that would have been the retirement of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. Like if Samuel Alito were to retire and a political battle unfolded to replace him with a strong conservative who needed to get confirmed by the Senate. That's how things work. The House is irrelevant. But the Senate has to confirm the president's choices by a 51% vote. It could be 50, 50 in the Senate and then the vice president would cast the deciding vote. So that has a way, especially with the right, of galvanizing voters. The right is very motivated by Supreme Court fights. We'll see if the left is as motivated. Abortion was always their biggest thing and they lost that. They lost that thanks to the Dobbs decision, which overturned Roe. But will we have a Supreme Court fight over an open seat? That might lead conservatives to pressure President Trump to wrap up the Iran war to protect the Senate at all costs to get Alito's replacement confirmed as soon as humanly possible before the midterms. Doesn't look like it. Fox News reporting today that the 76 year old Samuel Alito is not planning to retire this year. The reporting is also this term, they use it interchangeably. It's not the same. The term will end in June and the new term will begin in October. He is said to have been already interviewing and hiring his clerks for next term, which would take us into October. And Alito certainly would not retire in October with the midterms, you know, one month away because the Democrats could win control of the Senate and there's no way he's gonna retire. Thinking the Democrats have a shot at stymieing Trump's choice for his replacement. I think he'd either do it now or he would do it after the midterms based on whatever happens then. But forget enough about my point of view here to react is someone who has a really informed point of view, especially these days. She knows all about Justice Alito. In particular, it's Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of the Great Great Federalist and author of the new book Alito the Justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution, which is in bookstore starting tomorrow. Go ever go anywhere? Get it on Amazon pre order it today so you can help Molly out. We want to make sure she hits that best time, that bestseller list on the Times, which won't willingly welcome her, but we will shove her on there whether they want her or not. Here's a question for you. How many brokers does it take to insure your business? If you're like most business owners, the answer is too many. Multiple policies, multiple applications, and no clear view of how it all fits together. And when questions come up, it's not easy to get the clarity you need at all. No one's there for you. But super sure changes that. A one stop Shop for all of your business insurance backed by a team that works with you year round, not just at renewal. You are not a burden to them. They will take care of you. They want you to be happy. And if you've ever stared at a policy wondering what it actually covers, super sure has a fine print facts tool that translates the legal jargon into plain English so you know what's covered and what's not. It's not some shell game that they seem to be enjoying playing at your expense. Right now. You can go to super sure.com and get a full report on your current policies with no obligation. Find out if you're overinsured, underinsured or somewhere in between. Go to super sure.com one super agency, one powerful platform. All your policies in one place. Imagine it. Go to super sure.commegan today. That's super sure.commegan paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Molly, great to see you. Welcome to the show.
- [13:10]
Molly Hemingway
It's great to be here with you.
- [13:12]
Megyn Kelly
What a timely book. I mean, it's, it's crazy how timely it is. What's your reporting on Justice Alito and the prospects of his retirement?
- [13:22]
Molly Hemingway
So people have been speculating that Justice Alito is definitely going to retire at the end of this term. They've been doing this for about a year. And I keep telling people I don't actually see that happening. I don't know for sure anything is possible. But I the reporting that just came out from Fox News and also Jan Crawford at cbs, it matches with my understanding as well he's not inclined to retire and people should be prepared for that.
- [13:49]
Megyn Kelly
Hmm. It's very interesting because I have pretty solid reporting the other way that at least as of about six weeks ago he was planning to step down, that he wanted to do it. So it's possible he was talked out of it. It's possible he's reconsidering it, or it's possible this is all a head fake. So I do, I don't know, I
- [14:06]
Molly Hemingway
do think there's this thing with Justice Alito in that he's clearly the person on the court who least enjoys the trappings of having that position of authority. And so people, I think, frequently perceive that as his just disdain for Washington, D.C. that's real. He really does not think Washington, D.C. is as great of a place as people seem to think it is. Now, I do want to say one
- [14:30]
Megyn Kelly
of the many things we love about him.
- [14:32]
Molly Hemingway
I do want to say that people should not assume that just because the Word is that Justice Thomas and Justice Alito are not retiring, that that means there will be no retirements. I, again, don't have inside information, but I would not put it outside the realm of possibility that there might be a retirement at the end of this term. I'll leave it at that.
- [14:54]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, can you say that again?
- [14:55]
Molly Hemingway
I would not say it's outside the realm of possibility that there will be a retirement at the end of this term. If, even if it's not going to be Justice Alita or Justice Thomas.
- [15:05]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. All right. Well, we definitely don't want it to be Justice Alita or Justice Thomas unless it would cost the GOP the seat, in which case, sadly, they do have to go. Like, that's, this is a, this is a, like a parlor game that we have to play here. I don't really think the Senate is in jeopardy in the midterms. It's just, it suddenly could be, given what's happening with the Iran war. That's what's disconcerting. But if the GOP can hold on to the Senate, then, then President Trump has another three years just short of to find a replacement or, you know, for a conservative justice to step down and for President Trump to nominate and then get confirmed a replacement. So there is time, unless the worst happens in November.
- [15:41]
Molly Hemingway
Well, and let's just point out, too, a lot of the reasons why people are focusing on Justices Thomas and Alito is because they are the two oldest members, the Republican appointed members of the court. But Justice Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts is also in his 70s. And so if people want to speculate about people retiring, I mean, David Souter retired when he was younger than Chief Justice Roberts. He had served, I think, less long, about the same time as Chief Justice Roberts has. So I will also say that being that Thomas and Alito are the most consistently conservative or libertarian justices on the court, conservatives who want to replace them should maybe seek other people who might be better to replace.
- [16:26]
Megyn Kelly
No, those. I always say, if you're voting any way other than how especially Alito is voting, you're voting the wrong way. Like he, those two are almost in lockstep all the time. They should be your guide. Whatever they're doing, Justice Barrett, you do it. That's why Trump put you on the high court. But this is very interesting news you're, you're suggesting is that because it's not going to be Kavanaugh, Gorsuch or Barrett. They're brand new. Those are all Trump appointees and they're, they're Supreme Court Young. So the only other conservative would be the Chief justice who's less young and probably ready to like sail in the Mediterranean with his, like he's had 20 years now, like literally, I think it was 2006, right. That he was appointed by Bush. Probably would like some family time.
- [17:13]
Molly Hemingway
Well, in my book, I go through each of the Justices and how their jurisprudence compares with Justice Alito's and Chief Justice Roberts, you kind of have to understand at least some of his frustration. He's the only one of the Republican appointed Justices who flat out admits he doesn't really have a judicial philosophy when he comes onto the Court. He proves that when he saves Obamacare by rewriting the law. But his big overarching goal as Chief justice has been to get the Justices to all kind of work together to have more opinions from the Court being handed down as opinions from the Court rather than everybody writing their own opinion or concurrence or dissent. And instead things have kind of gotten a little harried recently. Right. You've had the leak of the Dobbs decision. You had just this weekend, another leak dating back to 2016 that was totally unnecessary and gratuitous. You have, you know, in my book I tell the story about how the some of the justices knowing that their colleagues lives were under threat, knowing that their colleagues children's lives were under threat, intentionally slow walked the Dobbs decision by two months, including not just not getting it done, not getting their dissent done so that it could be released, but also including in that dissent a footnote to a decision that was still being worked on by both sides. So they knew that that decision wouldn't come out until quite near the end of the term. Now this is the opposite of collegiality. When you are knowing that your colleagues lives are being threatened and, and you are just slow walking something that could put that all away because you know,
- [18:53]
Megyn Kelly
to explain that is, that is a piece of stunning news. I want to get into that. The title of the book we're talking with Molly Hemingway is Alito the justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution. Hardcover comes out tomorrow. Get your copy today before they're all gone. Because trust me, these publishing companies, they always underestimate where a conservative's book is going to go. So you got to go. It doesn't matter who it is they underestimate. So get your copy now. Order it today, Monday, before it hits on Tuesday. Alito by Molly Hemingway of the Federalist. So can you walk us through that? Because everyone remembers when the Dobbs. The draft Dobbs decision overturning Roe was leaked in 2022. And it was a stunning, stunning moment. We'd never seen a Supreme Court opinion leaked before, never mind one as consequential as that. And you report for the first time that the justices who are in the majority. Can you just. Before we get to the warning, but just talk. Cause like when I read this piece of the book, I got chills because I never really thought about what it was like to be Sam Alito writing the majority decision in Dobbs. Something conservatives have wanted since Roe was decided, you know, back in 1973. And here it is. He's got the votes, the conservatives have the votes. For the first time in 50 plus years, he's writing the decision. And you spell, you spell out exactly like how it went, how, why he was chosen, how he got the others on board, how quickly they signed on. Can you walk us through a little bit of that? Because it's really, it's really dramatic.
- [20:28]
Molly Hemingway
It's a dramatic 50 year long story. You know, the moment Roe v. Wade is handed down, pretty much everybody agrees it's slop. Whether you're on the left or you're on the right, people are like, what is this? It's not even trying to be constitutional law. But because it created this so called right to abortion, there were people who were willing to just hang everything onto preserving Roe so that the abortion regime could continue. There were many efforts to overturn Roe over the decades, most famously in 1992 with the KCB Planned Parenthood decision. But three of the Republican appointed justices figured out a way to sort of rewrite Roe. They said they told everybody, now you have to stop fighting about it. Well, obviously that didn't happen. And so the fights continued with the Dobbs decision. The Court knew by February of 2021 that they were going to take this decision. They didn't announce it for a few months, but that meant that all the justices on the court knew what was going to happen. They hear oral arguments in December of 2021 and justice, and after that they meet in conference. That's where just the nine justices gather and they talk about how they're going to vote. So it's pretty clear then that you have five votes to overturn Roe and six votes to uphold the Mississippi law in question. So when you have a majority, wait, that's too many.
- [21:54]
Megyn Kelly
Five and four.
- [21:55]
Molly Hemingway
No. So you had five who are willing to overstate Roe, but then Roberts would have joined to uphold the Mississippi law, but not overturn Roe?
- [22:02]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Okay.
- [22:03]
Molly Hemingway
So that meant that Roberts wasn't in the majority. Now, if he were, he would assign who writes the opinion, but this meant that Thomas was the most senior Justice, So he assigned the opinion, and he knew it had to be done perfectly well. Justice Alito, who's been on the Court now for close to 20 years at this time, he knew how to keep fragile majorities together. And that's important because, you know, again, we just. We talked about the Obamacare decision. That was a majority that flipped because the majority wasn't, you know, it didn't stay together. And Thomas knew that Alito could keep that majority together, incorporate everything that each justice wanted, and write it in a way that didn't, you know, force anyone out. And so he signs it to Alito, and Alito gets it done in such a short period of time. It's unbelievable. You know, this is a landmark case. This is one of the most important decisions in Supreme Court history. And he has a draft done by very early February. And he had, because he'd clearly been working with the other justices, the other justices who were in the majority almost immediately sign on to it. But that means that everyone on the court had the draft by early February, and they'd had 50 years to think about what to do about this issue, and yet they just weren't getting their dissent together for month after month after month. And then it gets leaked in early
- [23:26]
Megyn Kelly
May, and then there was an actual request by the majority to the dissenters saying, can you please hurry it up? Like, please, with alacrity, finish up your dissents. Because the longer it's being held in abeyance, the more people think, maybe if I knock off one of these justices, I have a chance of saving Roe. Like, the lives of the majority. The conservatives were actually in jeopardy. And we found out the hard way that was true with the guy who tried to assassinate Justice Kavanaugh and said he wanted to kill three of them. So the request was made to the dissenters, the liberals, like, please, get it decided. You know, get your dissents written sooner rather than later. And they were basically told to F off. There was zero empathy by the dissenters for the safety of their colleagues in the conservative majority.
- [24:26]
Molly Hemingway
I mean, it's just, if you remember, when the decision was leaked. Excuse me, when the decision was leaked, almost immediately, you had massive protests, not just at the Supreme Court, but also firebombings of pro life clinics and churches, and you had protests at the homes of the five justices who had voted to overturn Roe. Those protests were you know, people were publicly putting out their addresses. Some of these justices live with their young children. They immediately had to be put under security. They were wearing bulletproof vests. They were dealing with things that nobody should ever have to deal with. And people were being kind of blase about it now, because a decision is not final until it's publicly announced from the bench.
- [25:15]
Megyn Kelly
The.
- [25:15]
Molly Hemingway
Even though there were five justices willing to overturn Roe and prepared to do that, it wouldn't be final if one of them were killed. In fact, Roe would not have been overturned. It was clear that people were trying to either, God forbid, physically harm these people or otherwise intimidate them away from their decision. There are laws on the books against doing this. And yet Merrick Garland and the Department of Justice basically let everything continue, declined to prosecute in any way the people who were trying to affect the outcome. Congress did very little. The media were flat out cheerleading for these attacks on the justices. So, yes, they meet in conference and they are asked, you know, Justice Alito asks if. When it's going to be done, if they can speed it up. Gorsuch also is concerned. These people are facing radical, really serious threats. And after that conference, my sources said that Elena Kagan goes to Breyer's office, Breyer's chambers. Why Breyer's? Well, Breyer is a stalwart liberal, but he also is a gentleman. And he was concerned about what was happening to his colleagues. And Kagan reportedly screamed at him not to accommodate any kind of early, you know, any kind of getting that dissent done so that the decision could be released. And the evidence suggests that. Despicable. It's shocking. And then they finally agree. I'll just say one more thing that I think is just interesting about the inside of the court. When they meet in conference, they actually rate the decisions that have yet to come out as a B or C. A means they're totally ready to come out, and B means that, you know, you're just wrapping up the final bits. And C means nowhere near done. And in that first conference after the leak, Roberts says that the Dobbs decision is a C. A C. Now, the guys who had the really hard work got everything done by February, by early February, but the dissenters had made it a C. So they finally agree that they're going to get the decision done by June 1, and they do their dissent, I should say by June 1, and they do. But when they do it, they put this little evil Easter egg in there. They put a footnote to a decision that was not yet ready to come out knowing that you can't reveal the outcome of a case that has not yet been publicly announced. It delayed the announcement of Dobbs for another three plus weeks.
- [28:01]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, there I I, you know, those liberals are like just a few more babies. If we could just give time for a few more babies to be aborted, we'll be heroes. I mean that's truly how they look at it. The drama around this is reason enough to buy the book again. It's called Alito the Justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution by our friend Molly Hemingway. But this I just want to read a little bit of when when Alito wrote the decision from your book you write. Over his decades on the court, Justice Alito, he had learned to be as bold as prudence allows. Alito is not upset when another justice wants to include something that he believes is unnecessary or that tinkers with his prose. Alito had to write in such a way that the holders of these disparate opinions could all sign on to the majority decision. On February 10, Justice Alito formally distributed his 98 page draft opinion to the ad other justices. About five minutes later, Justice Gorsuch announced he had no edits and would sign the opinion. A few hours later, Justice Thomas said the same. Justice Barrett signed on and a few days later Justice Kavanaugh rounded out the five. It was obvious to the other justices that the draft had been circulated before the formal distribution. They were not prepared for how powerful it was and were shocked by how devastating the opinion was to the row and Casey was regime. It's amazing. My God, that's so powerful. Just to think about the five of them behind the scenes knowing what they were about to do. Something that conservatives had wanted for 50 years and could never cobble together five justices to actually do it or get the right case into the bloodstream working its way up to the right Supreme Court to do it. Even when Casey went up there, they were betrayed by Sandra Day o' Connor Kennedy. And so they kept getting even conservatives to betray them until we had Alito and Thomas and the Supreme Court justices appointed by Trump to do the right thing to finally say no, this is an abomination of a decision. There is no constitutional right to an abortion, obviously, and we are going to have the temerity and courage to overturn this decision. It's very exciting to read the behind the scenes on it and then your point about the disgusting media who were just as bad as those dissenters and Kagan who didn't care at all about endangering the lives of the majority. You point out many for scorn, including of course, before we get to the media, Merrick Garland, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, all of whom they would prefer to see the justices endangered. But then there was Jen Psaki who you remind us this is just disgusting because she was Biden's press secretary at the time. And you write as follows. In 2022, Merrick Garland was backed up by the White House in terms of we don't care about the protests, we don't care about what's happening outside of their private homes. Backed up by the White House which consistently refused to condemn protests outside of the justices private homes or even to discourage them. This is a Psaki quote. So I know that there's an outrage right now, I guess about protests that have been peaceful to date and we certainly continue to encourage that outside of judges homes. And that's the President's position, said Jen Psaki, Biden's press secretary. We covered that at the time, Molly, but I had forgotten about how low she and the White House sunk when the, when the justices lives were in danger.
- [31:28]
Molly Hemingway
Well, and this is a really big issue nationwide is intimidation of federal judges. There are laws that say you cannot try to change an opinion by protesting or threatening a judge or a justice. Merrick Garland had many tools at his disposal. The Biden White House could have said we think it's disgusting that you're posting the home address of this justice who lives with his wife and children. And as you alluded to earlier, Kavanaugh and his family were faced with an assassin on their street who was trying to murder him and his family. But also he said he wanted to get two of the other two other justices as well, presumably the three Trump appointed justices. This is not just like a light, ha ha, funny thing, oh they got protested, they deserve it. This is about people murderous with rage being incited by incredibly irresponsible people. And the media did play a major role in that, both by underplaying the seriousness of these threats, but also lying about what the Dobbs decision did. It did not say abortion is illegal. It said it's not in the Constitution and we all know it. And so we should return this issue to the people and their legislatures. That's actually a very modest approach to abortion, certainly much less than what pro lifers would like to see. But they lied about it and acted like it was this, you know, horrific situation that would lead the country into the Handmaid's Tale immediately or something like that.
- [33:03]
Megyn Kelly
Things had sunk so low between the justices. And they remain, they remain not great. And you report that in the book, citing Justice Thomas, who was asked about court friendships. You point out, speaking to an audience in Dallas, you say a member of the audience pointing to the friendships between liberal and conservative justices, asked how that same type of friendship could be fostered in Congress or in the general population, quote, well said, Thomas. I'm just worried about keeping it at the court. Now, noting the former colleagues with whom he had friendships, he said, quote, this is not the court of that era. So things, I mean, was it Dobbs, was that the point at which things flipped from what had been a more cordial court to one that's more fractured now? And over and over we see the liberal justices openly in more casual forums, attacking the conservatives?
- [34:00]
Molly Hemingway
Right. I would say that my reporting did indicate that there had been previous times where things were a little rough, namely after the 2000 Bush v. Gore decision, the clerks had trouble. You know, there's so much clerk interaction across chambers normally, but they had trouble in that era as well. And I think the Dobbs decision combined with what the liberal justices were saying both before and after that. So it is true that justices strongly fight with each other in their opinions and dissents. They'll make fun of each other. Scalia, Justice Scalia was really good at this. He once accused Clarence Thomas of drafting a freedom destroying cocktail, which to show how little people worried about these types of broadsides in opinions. The next time Thomas and Alito went for a drink, Thomas ordered a freedom destroying cocktail. You know, so they have fun with each other in their opinions and dissents. But there has been a norm that you do not attack the integrity of the court itself when speaking publicly. And that norm has completely been blown through, unfortunately, by many of the liberal
- [35:09]
Megyn Kelly
justices who will say Kagan and Katanji, Brown, Jackson, Sotomayor.
- [35:15]
Molly Hemingway
Yeah, and they've been saying that it's political, which is, you know, it's just interesting. We had decades of the court acting as a legislature saying, well, we wish people had voted for this thing and they didn't. So we'll say it's in the law that's political. That's when you're a legislature of nine people saying, this is not in the Constitution, so we shouldn't say it is. Is. Is the opposite of political. It's very, it's very, is what judges do. But they will get very personally hurt and act in a way that undermines the integrity of the court itself. And that, I think, has soured some of the justices about their interactions with each other, since they do, since historically they have always tried to speak well of each other publicly and of the court as an institution, understanding how important it is to the preservation of the republic itself. If you don't have rule of law, you don't have a country. And if you don't have respect, respect for the courts, and if you're doing things to undermine respect for the courts, either by speaking that way or through just completely lawless decisions, that's bad for the country as well.
- [36:18]
Megyn Kelly
We just saw this week Sotomayor have to come out and apologize for openly ripping on Justice Kavanaugh. Right. It was, she was at an event and she said something like, oh, he's never, he's never met somebody who gets paid by the hour and not meaning a hooker, meaning like that didn't come out right. But somebody who's like on hourly wages is what she meant. He's not really a man of the people. And that was obviously deeply insulting to him. And she did come out to her credit and in a paper statement issued an apology.
- [36:52]
Molly Hemingway
And I do think it speaks well of everybody involved that the, I think the justices who, the justices who were not Kavanaugh were more outraged. Outraged by that statement than Justice Kavanaugh, who handles slights fairly well. But the other justices, he'd have to, we've seen. Yeah. What he's had to go through. But the other justices, I think were truly appalled by that. It was good that she apologized for that. But it's also true, you know, one thing I try to in the book also be balanced about things. And one of the things I think is worth noting is that each and every one of these justices could be making a tremendous amount of money off the court. They are sacrificing a lot to serve in this role. Justice Alito is the only one who's been a public servant his entire life. I think maybe Sotomayor too. But these are people who really could, like in Alito's case, I'm sure he could be making tens of millions of dollars outside the court and it's a big sacrifice. And so just, it's not appropriate to speak this way about any of your colleagues, knowing what people are going through. Not that they don't have positions of immense power. That also means something.
- [38:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, no, it's, I mean, Alito, Kavanaugh, they've all been treated so horribly. Thomas, Alito and Kavanaugh, sorry, Alito and Thomas both attacked for their wives behavior just a year or so ago, Justice Alito was in the news because his wife had a Don't tread on me flag. Like that was considered horrible and offensive. And another flag. I mean, it's like that. That's what you've got on Justice Alito, the flags his wife is flying. I was there when he was confirmed, and they reduced his wife to tears because they had been so rough on him over. I think it was like a country club. This is just a screen grab of her in the background or video of her in the background starting to tear up. She was tearing up when finally a senator, a Republican, was trying to rehabilitate her husband because the Democrats have been suggesting he was a member of the Klan because some country club he had membership in wasn't like, diverse enough. It's like only leftists will go through your country club and count up, like, the number of Hispanics, the number of black people is like, clubs are based on demographics of a town or a community. Like, what are you supposed to. If you move to the town and there aren't a bunch of Hispanics and they don't join your club, what do say you supposed to do? Say, I'm not going to join the club. My kids can't play tennis. It's absurd. But that's what they do. They did it back then to him. His wife was reduced to tears when to his credit, it was Lindsay Graham who finally got the mic and started to say, you know, are any of these things true? And her love for her husband brought her to tears. Of course, what's been just done to Justice Kavanaugh dwarfs anything that's happened to any of them. Just today, Molly, there's a. There's a piece in the Atlantic ripping on Cash Patel, suggesting he's a raging alcoholic who can't do his job. I mean, really incendiary stuff. And apparently they. They didn't bother to speak to the people around Cash who are closest to him, who have spent the most time with him. They were so excited about their narrative that he's just, you know, some ne' er do. Well, the Atlantic, that's the same publication. It's the same reporter who. Who published the bullshit claims of Julie Swetnick against Justice Kavanaugh, that he was a gang rapist represented by Michael Avenatti, who is in jail. He's on, I think, work release right now for his fraud. And that the like, the patterns continue, which is why the Federalist exists.
- [40:29]
Molly Hemingway
Well, the Atlantic, I was thinking about it when this story came out and how Cash. Cash Patel has responded by suing them. And, and it is wise to take their information operations seriously. Lorene Powell jobs reportedly loses 20 million, 10 to 20 million dollars a year on the Atlantic, and Trump has made fun of her for that. And I'm thinking losing 10 to $20 million a year when you're a billionaire in order to control elections and run information ops is not really that big of a deal for her. Probably. They did the Russia collusion hoax. They did the Kavanaugh rape smear. They've done. They've been involved in pretty much every major hoax and info op that we've seen. They invented the suckers and losers op. And you do have to push back against this strongly. And you do want to have journalism where you're actually citing your sources. I understand. I mean, just have a book where I recorded or I reported everything on background because I'm interviewing justices and clerks and that. But I think you have to have a reputation for telling the truth. And if you don't like this reporter who pushed the Julie Swetnick story, as you note, then you, you have to have better sourcing than what she provided there. And the, the claim with Julie Swetnick, I always remember is she said that Justice Kavanaugh was the leader of a serial gang rape cartel roaming the streets of suburban Maryland. And then last week, they tell us, well, we couldn't run down any of the errors. Swalwell information. We know what your standards are, friends, and we know that these far exceeded those standards that you displayed during the Kavanaugh confirmation.
- [42:06]
Megyn Kelly
That's so true. Julie Swetnick gets purchased in the Atlantic, but none of Eric Swalwell accusers were of interest to them. We got it. We know who you are. All right, let's shift gears because there's something else that's up your alley. You at the Federalist, and if you're not reading the Federalist, everybody, you should be. They've got so many great reporters over there. Julie Kelly now reporting the latest on the Trump administration's pushback into the Russiagate, reporting against Trump back in term 1.0. And this is important because there's never been real accountability for what was done to the president on his first term, the effective ruination of his first term, certainly the attempted ruination of him as a leader, as a politician, as a president. So now he's been having many in the intel community take a look at, at the files, right? Like Tulsi Gabbard and the CIA, the FBI, like, check your files, see what you're finding on Russiagate. And we have found quite a bit on how much collusion there was, how much planning there was to undermine Trump based on nothing, based on absolutely made up nothingness. And here's what Julie Kelly just posted today. CBS News reporting accelerated activity into the Russiagate investigation. Quote, former senior intelligence and FBI officials who are cooperating with the DOJ's criminal probe into whether former CIA Director John Brennan lied to Congress were subpoenaed over the weekend to testify before a grand jury in D.C. multiple sources familiar with the matter told CBS. The subpoenas went out shortly after the Justice Department appointed conservative Trump ally Joe degener to formally take over the criminal investigation into Brennan after the career prosecutor handling the case was removed late last week. So what this tells me in a nutshell is while they haven't been able to make the case criminally against former CIA Director John Brennan, who I think may have been, I mean, he's one of the top three worst who tried to screw Trump, they haven't been able to get him criminally yet. They're getting closer. That's what that tells me. How do you see it? Because you've been really in depth on this situation.
- [44:15]
Molly Hemingway
I've been on this story for 10 years. It's been almost 10 years since I've been. I wrote my very first story on the Russia collusion hoax. And there are challenges with holding people accountable. People have to be held accountable. If they're not, again, it's sort of good night for the country. If you can engage in this type of unbelievable coup against a duly elected president and have nothing happen to you, you are a joke of a country. But there are challenges, including that there's usually a five year statute of limitations on the crimes that were committed. We did not even learn how much of a global or grand conspiracy this was in some cases until last year, but after they really began running the operation in 2016. But you also have a DOJ full of career employees who are unfortunately not very good at being impartial and nonpartisan in their jobs. And I mean by that, that when Joe Biden and Merrick Garland said, like, let's see how we can go after Trump, they all said, we'd love to, sirs. And in the case of, okay, we want to hold people accountable for destroying the reputation of the FBI and Department of justice, everyone's like, I don't want to have anything to do with that. And so you have very few career people involved, but you also have problems with the outside conservative legal community. You think about how the liberal legal community kind of came up with all the ideas about how they were going to put Trump in prison and how they were going to bankrupt, corrupt him and anybody who knew him. And they would publish in the Washington Post, hey, what if we kicked Trump off the ballot using this 14th Amendment argument? And they did try to do that, it went all the way to the Supreme Court and it was shut down. It was such a bad argument that, contrary to what the media told you, that even Ketanji Brown Jackson was like, well, this seems like you're just trying to disenfranchise, you know, tens of millions of people. But that's not how the Washington Post treated it. That's not how the New York Times treated it or the Atlantic. You don't see, see the creativity in the conservative legal movement or the energy or the passion from these people. And perhaps that is because a lot of them are establishment in a way that does not. Then they really just genuinely don't like Trump. But in order to have accountability, which is important for everybody, you have to have that kind of outside counsel. So maybe this is a good, when
- [46:32]
Megyn Kelly
you get creative as a, as a conservative lawyer, you get disbarred.
- [46:36]
Molly Hemingway
Well, even on that point, I think one of the great scandals of recent years is that the constitutional lawyer John Eastman had to go through disbarment procedures without any assistance from the conservative legal community. And it wasn't just him. There are other people who face this. There was a, the Project 65, where left wing donors poured millions of dollars into the project of disbarring people who had legal arguments they didn't like. And people say about Johnny's, you know, they'll say, I don't think he should have argued this for Trump, but you do have to admit that Congress actually changed the law to deal with what he had, what he was proposing for Trump, meaning his argument was solid enough that Congress had to change the law. About the electoral counting situation in Congress.
- [47:23]
Megyn Kelly
He was the one who came up with the ideas to, you know, overturn the Trump's law in 2020, or however you want to phrase it, but that, that was not encouraged as innovative legal thinking that led to his disbarment. I mean, it's, it's pretty dramatic. All right, one last thing I want to get to before you have to go. There's a big debate in Washington on the SAVE act, right, which Republicans really, really, really want, which would require voter ID universally. And the public favors this over 80%. Some polls put it as high as 90%. But the Democrats do not, one imagines, because they really don't mind if illegals vote because they tend to vote blue. There's one of the biggest pushbacks and many, many conservatives say, well, we don't want to get rid of the filibuster or change the filibuster in the Senate at all. Which is what would effectively have to happen in order to get a vote on this because Republicans don't have the 60 votes to get cloture. There's some clever ways around it, but they're not being utilized. And one of the smartest pushbacks J.D. vance has used it and others have used it is if you don't think the Democrats are going to get rid of the filibuster as soon as they go back into control in the Senate, you're crazy. And just in case people were wondering whether that's true, James Carville weighed in on some of the plans that we can expect if and when the Democrats, who are doing a very good job of staying quiet these days as the Republicans in fight over the Iran war, telegraphs what the plan is if and when Democrats are returned to power. Here it is.
- [48:50]
Molly Hemingway
If the Democrats win the presidency in both houses of Congress, I think on
- [48:54]
Rob Shuter
day one, they should make Puerto Rico, D.C. a state and it should expand the Supreme Court to 13. It eat our dust. They've done everything they could that they held up to 22,000 election, they stole it, they've stolen Supreme Court seats, they've gerrymandered everything that you can.
- [49:13]
Molly Hemingway
And the only way to fight this
- [49:15]
Rob Shuter
is don't run on it, don't talk
- [49:16]
Molly Hemingway
about it, just do it. She said, okay, we got 54 senators
- [49:20]
Rob Shuter
and we got 13 court members. Thank you, goodbye.
- [49:25]
Megyn Kelly
So you tell me whether a party that's going to get D.C. and Puerto Rico statehood plus court packing, whether that party would hesitate in any way to get rid of the filibuster so they could shove everything through with a 51 vote majority. And whether that changes any of the calculations we're watching right now in the
- [49:42]
Molly Hemingway
US Senate, it's not just James Carville. It's a ton of Democrats who are advocating getting rid of the filibuster. The big problem as a fan of the filibuster because they protect it, protects minority viewpoints. And I feel like I always have minority viewpoints. The frustration is why wouldn't the Republicans in the Senate nuke the filibuster and then do all sorts of good things with it? You know, there are all sorts of things that should be done by the Senate that they claim they can't do because they can't pass this 60 vote threshold. But if they were to nuke the filibuster and then actually get something done, I would be much more in favor of them doing it. But regardless, they should be debating. They should get back to the Senate being that great body that debates like we always were told when we were kids, this is the great debating group of the country. They never debate anymore. And they should be doing that with the Save America act and they should be discussing why they don't want to have people prove that they are citizens of the country and have and that they are who they claim they are when it comes to voting.
- [50:44]
Megyn Kelly
Well, there may, there may be a way of forcing that actual speaking filibusters which will change it. And whatever has to be done, we got to get the Save act passed. Molly, great to see you. The book is Alito the Justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution by Molly Hemingway. Go buy it right now before everybody else tries to get it tomorrow. Great to see you.
- [51:05]
Molly Hemingway
Thank you so much.
- [51:05]
Megyn Kelly
Good luck with it. Coming up next, Rob Shooter on some Hollywood inside dish. Traditional home security companies can make the whole process a headache. Expensive monthly fees, long contracts that lock you in for years, and systems that require a technician to come install everything. It can feel overly complicated, but let me tell you about SimpliSafe. They make protecting your home straightforward and the system is designed to cover everything that matters. What stands out about SimpliSafe is that it's not just one device. It's a complete security system. And it's all backed by SimpliSafe's 247 professional monitoring agents who are ready to respond and dispatch emergency help if something happens. Over 5 million people trust SimpliSafe every day, and U.S. news World Report ranks them the best home security system of 2026. Consider experiencing peace of mind with SimpliSafe and this exclusive discount. Listen to this. Right now you can get 50% off your new system50 by visiting SimpliSafe.com Megan that's simply spelled with an I S I m p l I safe.com megan where you will get half off. There is no safe like SimpliSafe. UnitedHealth Group is simplifying healthcare by investing in tools to help patients know more and pay less. These tools help patients find providers and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more@unitedhealthgroup.com commitment foreign now we turn to the world of pop culture and celebrity news. With a longtime reporter in the biz and a first time guest to this show, but a big star over on our pal Maureen Callahan show, the Nerf. Rob Shooter is a celebrity reporter and founder of Naughty but Nice on substack. He spent 15 years as a celebrity publicist representing some of the biggest stars in the world, including Jennifer Lopez and Jon Bon Jovi, many others, before turning to reporting. We've got lots of fun to get to with Rob today, including more from Meghan and Harry's faux royal tour in Australia and the fallout, some of which we're just learning about. And is Blake Lively really considering moving to the uk? Have things gotten that bad? Yes, they have. Rob's debut novel is out tomorrow and it's called it's the started with a whisper based on his time in the entertainment industry. Rob, welcome to the show.
- [53:39]
Rob Shuter
Hey, thank you, Megan. I'm a huge fan. It's lovely making my debut on your show.
- [53:45]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, lovely. I'm, I'm a huge fan of yours too. I love hearing you with Maureen. I've learned so much from you. And I can always tell when you've, when you actually know, know what you're reporting about because you've actually spoken with somebody who represents the star, who is the star. And you're usually too gracious to actually say it, but I can tell, which is one of the fun things about listening to you and about reading this book. Because this book, let's face it, is based on your real life stories.
- [54:08]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, it is a novel, so let me just say it is fiction, but it's based on four gossip columnists, four entertainment insiders who get a morning show on a struggling cable network. And for five days a week, they do all the celebrity gossip. But it becomes evident very quickly that the real gossip is not about the stars. It's about themselves. Every one of those characters has a secret. And as the book goes on, those secrets are revealed.
- [54:34]
Megyn Kelly
That's so fun. We need this just in time for summer. I mean, everybody needs a book like this that they can dig into. That's got juicy little tidbits, but a fun plot that moves along just as we go into the summer months. I love this kind of book and I love audiobooks like this as well. So check it out. You've gotta support Rob too. Now, I want to talk about how you got into this industry before we get to like your actual writing because this is not your first book. But like how, what, how do you become celebrity publicist and reporter, you start at the bottom.
- [55:03]
Rob Shuter
So I came to America and I got a job as a receptionist at a big Hollywood PR company. They were opening up a New York office, and they needed somebody to answer the phones. This was 20 years ago, when celebrities and publicists, they didn't have telephones, they didn't have cell phones. Nobody had them. We didn't have. We didn't have our iPhones back then. So if you wanted to talk to your publicist, if you're big a star, if you were Cameron Diaz, if you're Whoopi Goldberg, you have to call an office. And they had to call me. And so I answered the phones and said hello. And then I've always been a very nosy person, a very curious person. And so I thought it was fascinating. I didn't even know what a. What a publicist did. I didn't aspire to get this job. I didn't grow up wanting to be a publicist. I'd never heard of one. But where I grew up, it was a tough town in Britain, a working, working class time. I thought stars were just born that way. And then I realized from working in this. In this PR office that they're often created. So I was fascinated by the business. And after a few years, I left the receptionist desk and I became a publicist. I ended up running their entertainment division.
- [56:10]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, that makes sense. You're in the biz. But the thing that I have seen with a lot of these celebrity publicists that I could never do, and I don't understand how you get past it, is when they are so rude to you, when they. When they just, like, demand no eye contact, just hand it to me. Surf. How do you handle that, Rob, without strangling them?
- [56:31]
Rob Shuter
You just have to bite your tongue. I don't think you need to be around celebrities to meet rude people. Part of the joy of this book is that I have a boss from hell. And I think that's probably the most joyous thing about the Devil Wears Prada is it's just really delicious to have somebody awful. I used to work in Pizza Hut when I lived in Edinburgh, and I had a boss from hell in Pizza Hut. And so I think. I think we've all had to deal with these people. Celebrities are particularly rude, and they can be particularly, particularly nasty. But I grew up in a tough time. You know, if you think celebrities are hard, try going to high school in Birmingham, England. It was a very tough place. So if you can survive high school, I promise you, you can survive working for The Spice Girls or Jessica Simpson?
- [57:13]
Megyn Kelly
It's a good point.
- [57:14]
Rob Shuter
It was a tough.
- [57:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, that's a very good point. Now again, we're talking with Rob Shuter and it's S H U T E R His book is. It started with a whisper. It's a novel based on celebrity culture and it's a super fun read. You can get your copy today. The. The book description writes the following about you. They write, before Jessica Simpson told then husband Nick that they were getting divorced, she called Rob. Jon Bon Jovi flew Rob to each of his shows on a private jet for the primary purpose of escorting out press. Before his fabulous hair flopped, Rob was responsible for making sure an Asian pair was within feet of Jennifer Lopez at any given moment, per her very specific, specific demands. Now, I have heard about Jennifer Lopez that she also had a thing about having just the right kind of flower in whatever hotel room she went into as well. Some sort of rose, maybe a pink rose. Confirm or deny?
- [58:07]
Rob Shuter
Rob confirmed she was really specific. But once again, I actually found this sort of easy to work with. I always say after yes, the best answer is no. People that are maybe really annoy me. I. I don't know how to deal with that. What I loved about Jennifer is she set the rules and they were her rules. And she paid you well and she expected you to do it. And so it was sort of like, sort of. It was sort of easier to. To just know what you were getting into. She was very consistent. She was very tough all the time. And I sort of appreciated that you knew where you stood with her. And so, yes, she has this rider. It's almost embarrassing sometimes when I'd send it out when she'd be on the morning shows or when she was doing press, I'd always apologize to the booker before I hit send. I was like, I'm so sorry that I have to send this. It's so awful, but I have to send it. And so I was in on the joke. I'd love to believe that I represented people well, and I certainly didn't betray people that paid my rent for. For a long time. But I also too appreciated just how ridiculous it all was.
- [59:08]
Megyn Kelly
Is the Asian pair the one that gets its own little skirt in the grocery store, you know, has a little outfit that you buy it in.
- [59:14]
Rob Shuter
It doesn't I? I would say maybe more than once I stole that skirt and I put it on a different pair and she didn't know the difference.
- [59:22]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know. I never understand why the Asian pair has clothing, but none of the other fruit does. They're just completely exposed. When I put it through the little, like the conveyor belt, I'm always like her little skirt. Oh, yeah. She feels. I feel like a pervert if it comes off. So. So JLo, she's actually in the news right now because there's a report that she and Ben Affleck are trying to sell their mansion in Beverly Hills that they owned together. It went on the market initially for 68 million in July of 2024. Amazingly, nobody has that money or wants to spend it. So they've lowered the price to a paltry 52 million. And the reporting from TMZ and others is now that. Including you. Naughty but nice. That's your substack. That Ben Affleck is just walking away from his ownership in that. In that mansion.
- [60:10]
Rob Shuter
This tells you literally what peace of mind costs. We've heard that expression. What does the peace of mind cost? It's going to cost Ben about $30 million. Jennifer is a. That big a pain in the bottom that Ben is willing to walk away from this. So they are divorced. This is the last thing that they're sort of tangled up together with. She was making a movie with him. Kiss of a Spider Woman, which flopped, was through his production company. So I think they were remaining nice when they were still working together. They're now divorced. This home is the last detail. And anybody who's ever got divorced knows what it's like to just want to be done. And so my insiders are telling me Ben is just done. Would he love. Would he love to make that money back? Absolutely. But it's just not worth it in the long run. Take the house, take the money, and I don't think they'll ever speak to each other ever again. It's over.
- [61:02]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, when you just say, you know what, the. The 26 million is yours. That would have been mine. Like, you know, you've. You're rolling in dough. When you're like, you have it, it's not like 200 bucks. It's 26 million. But he's been very successful. Okay, so he's. He's had enough of her and is throwing in the towel. That. That makes sense to me. You also write about Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds, and there now is a report that they're thinking about moving to the UK because she's become such a scourge over here in the United States, and they know it.
- [61:39]
Rob Shuter
Yeah. Yeah. This is a really great story. So this story, it's gone on and it's unraveled and let you know, just as some background here in my office, whenever we get to interview a big celebrity, five people raise their hands. If I told my team that tonight we were going to the Devil Wears Prada premiere, who wants to go? We've got one spot on the carpet. Everybody that works for me would want to go. That's not true with Blake. For the last 10 years, nobody has wanted to interview Blake. Not my interns, not my senior staff. She's really difficult. And so when this story broke with her and Justin Baldoni, we came at it with a lot of background. Blake is a very, very difficult person who mocks people, who's cruel to people. She's not very, very liked at all. So we're not sur at how this story has unraveled, how it's going to end up. But as far as moving to another country, my sources are saying, absolutely. And the reason is she just can't understand why Americans don't adore her anymore. And Blake can't live anywhere. She can't be around people that don't adore her. So Blake has really closed her circle. She has this very, very small inner circle who all tell her how brilliant she is, how beautiful, how smart she is, including her husband. Her husband's part of this sort of fan group around Blake that has been shattered by this lawsuit. And I think the most damage Blake has done is maybe not to others or maybe not to her friendships, but to herself here. Because Blake, for the first time, as long as I've been covering, covering her, has had to really wake up and smell the coffee, which is, people don't like me. Now, if you know that if you're.
- [63:19]
Megyn Kelly
If.
- [63:20]
Rob Shuter
If you. If you acknowledge that, you're okay. But if you've gone through your life thinking everybody loves you and you're really special, to be told otherwise has shook her to her core. So out of America. We don't deserve Blake. She needs to be somewhere where really they love her.
- [63:36]
Megyn Kelly
No. Well, we don't want her. Right. In America, the same. But we wound up with Harry and Meghan, and nobody likes them either. We'll get to them in a minute. But the thing about Blake that. I was thinking about this because. Remember when Hugh Grant had the big scandal with the prostitute?
- [63:51]
Rob Shuter
Yeah.
- [63:52]
Megyn Kelly
Was it a tranny prostitute? It was a. I can't remember.
- [63:54]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, it was somebody that he met, and he went on the Jay Leno show to confirm it. Yes. He was dating Elizabeth Hurley at the time. Yeah, we got it.
- [64:02]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. And he was like the biggest star in the world. So it was like a huge deal that he got caught with this prostitute. So everybody was stunned, and it was a massive scandal. And he went on and he handled it by joking about it on with Jay Leno. And it kind of like took the wind out of the sails of that scandal. People laughed that he could laugh about it, and he kind of shared it with us and we all kind of moved on. It's not like that for Blake Lively because she's. She's tried to ruin someone.
- [64:29]
Rob Shuter
Yeah.
- [64:29]
Megyn Kelly
You know, and she almost got away with it, except he hired a very effective PR and legal team to fight back on his behalf. And she kind of got caught once. We saw in discovery all of her texts and so on. And so I. There's no way out of it for her at this point, Rob, Even if she decides to settle this case before they go to trial next month. It's happening May 19, which reports are she doesn't want to. It's. No one's in the mind of like, forgive her and move on like there. I think people are angry over what she's done to him.
- [65:02]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, I think. I think you're right. And I would argue, too. It's not just that he's hired a really great team. He. He has. And so I tip my hat to that. He has the truth on his side, Megan. So this was always, hopefully going to come out. I'm still a believer. I want to believe that the truth does prevail. We can disguise it for a while. I've worked with celebrities where we've done a good job of covering stuff up for years, maybe even decades. But ultimately the truth comes out. And I think that truth is coming out now for Blake. I don't see any way out of this. I don't see any way for her to bounce back. Let's be honest, too. She never was an A list actress. She was not Nicole Kidman. And so her movies were not that. She was bigger. And this is why the damage hurts her more. Her Persona, her image was bigger than the reality. So if you're really, really talented, it doesn't matter if you were messy. If you're Whitney Houston, you've always got to that talent.
- [65:59]
Megyn Kelly
You've got that God given Robert Downey Jr.
- [66:02]
Rob Shuter
Exactly. And so these people can bounce back. Britney Spears can't because she doesn't have that talent. She's never been a great singer. So all Britney is is smoke and mirrors. That's what Blake is. Blake is smoke and mirrors. And so there's no real anchor. There's no real foundation there. So if she loses the veneer, if she loses the. The illusion of success, which she has, there's nothing else left. She's literally the emperor with no clothes on. Now she has been exposed. She can't fall back onto her acting skills. She's not Meryl Streep. She can't fall back onto her brand. She was never Martha Stewart. People bought her products because they liked her. And now we realize we don't like her. There's nothing else left.
- [66:47]
Megyn Kelly
The blowback that now she's suffering reportedly includes no offers. Like, the offers have dried up. No one wants to cast her right now. And also there's report that her husband, Ryan Reynolds, is very concerned that this thing's going to blow up on him if it actually does go to trial, because he's likely to be a witness. He was at that now infamous meeting in their penthouse at which she was saying taylor and he or her dragons and so on, and he was helping her rewrite the script. So he will be a witness at this point trial, and the two of them will be in the news in a very negative way for who knows how long the trial will take two months?
- [67:24]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, absolutely. Even if it turns out here that he wasn't as bad, that he wasn't a bully, the question is, why are you living with somebody who is? And I think this is why Taylor Swift wanted to get away from this. I don't think Taylor Swift is going to be pulled into this with a smoking gun text. But the question is, Blake has. And so Taylor, why are you friends with such an awful person? Taylor has distanced herself. It's very difficult for a husband to do that. But now the question to Ryan is, are you. Are you fake too? Are you a mean guy? And so I think, you know, we are who we surround ourselves with. Megan, I've got some really, really rotten friends, and I don't see them that often because even though they make me laugh, they're awful people. And so I don't want my. I don't want people to think I'm mean. And so, like, it's okay to have one or two stinkers in your life. It's very hard to have a partner. Partner in your life that is an absolute stinker and has been exposed as one. And so Ryan now is in a tricky position, which is why he wants this over with. He just wants it done.
- [68:27]
Megyn Kelly
Who could blame him? We're talking with Rob Shooter. His book is called It Started with a whisper, delving into morning television and the world of celebrity culture. It's a novel based on no one who you actually know, allegedly, reportedly as Maureen Woodseck. But you will see. You'll see. You read it. See if anybody jumps out at you as somebody who you may have read about in the news, but buy it to support Rob. Let's talk about people who are desperate for attention. And I was thinking about that, I confess, when we talked about JLo, because I know you've said that it's like JLO is really not famous for anything. Exactly. She's just kind of famous for being famous. She's just kind of keeps herself in the news. And I've said this to my audience repeatedly. There is a reason that you don't see Julia Roberts every time she goes to the Starbucks or to the gym. She's not calling the paparazzi to let them know she's getting a Starbucks or a gym or going to the gym at this particular time. These stars, you don't have to say specifically about J. Lo, but you tell me, Rob, these stars who we just happened to catch in the act of living their daily lives, are working with the paparazzi.
- [69:33]
Rob Shuter
Absolutely true. Let me give you a little bit of a clue, a tip about this. And I have a funny scene in the book about this. If you. If a photographer, if you see a photograph of a celebrity in full head and makeup looking fabulous, walking through the park, maybe with a. With a puppy or maybe a baby, that is probably staged. If you see a photograph of a celebrity picking their nose at Starbucks, that is not staged. If they've got pimples on their face, then you know it's an actual real picture. Now, stars have done this forever. When I worked with Diddy, Diddy was the king of this. So I worked with Diddy about 20 years ago, and he was the king of tipping off photographers. When I worked at OK Magazine as the executive editor, we would get calls from celebrities. Celebrities would call themselves. They wouldn't even bother to get their PR people to call. But once again, if the picture's too good, if they look too great, if we're in full hair and makeup, Tom Cruise used to do this. He used to. When he was still talking to Suri. That was a while ago. His daughter. When he was still talking to Suri, there was lots of photographs of Tom in Central park in full, full hair and makeup with his daughter. That isn't an accident. That is planned.
- [70:41]
Megyn Kelly
Such a good dad. Okay, so they are desperate. Some of them for attention. And the, the reason I think this is a good transition into Megan Markle and, and Prince Harry is the following. They just completed this Australia tour. They are pretending to still be royals. They're not royals anymore. They had their Royal Highness titles stripped from them. Obviously he's born a prince and he remains a prince. His dad is the King of England. She's a nothing glommer wannabe. But here's what's interesting to me. So they, they go on this sort of faux royal tour to Australia and they pretend that they're still working royals and they, they walk out on Bondi beach where we saw that terrible attack on Australian Jews and they, you know, they're sort of being adored by all these crowds following them. Then she had some seminar with like young women where she was like, oh, be your best self. That kind of stuff. And what I was laughing about watching this, Rob, is that they want us to believe that they, they're the only ones who can command this. They're like, they're like Prince William and Kate, you know, they're just as royal, just as famous, and people want to see them. Now you tell me, you in particular, given what you've been doing for your professional life, what celebrity, I mean, talking about like a legitimate celebrity out in Hollywood could not garner this kind of a crowd and attract attention to walk with them on the beach or into an event if they asked for it, right? Like literally all of them, even the B listers, could easily get crowds to follow them and make it look like they are just sort of these world ambassadors. What this is showing us is not that they're these universally beloved people, it's that people really know Harry, have some affinity probably for the 12 year old version of him and certainly for his deceased mother, maybe some extent his brother and his father. But it's about celebrity and people being interested in it. It's just they're the only ones who do it right. There are not, for the most part Hollywood celebrities who could gather a crowd who are this thirsty.
- [72:52]
Rob Shuter
That's what it is. It's about being thirsty. And what I find so interesting about this is that the only thing that makes these two people interesting is the royal family. The one thing they're trying to run away from, the one thing that they say they want no part of, that's all they've got. We're not interested in them for any other reason. Kim Kardashian, you know, a celebrity that we roll our eyes at and we laugh at, but she has created this herself. And so these two have got, were given this, they were given it and now they're exploiting it and at the same time saying they don't want to be part of it. So it is so confusing to me what they want here. I think I know what they want, which is they want this fabulous life part time and then they want to earn money the rest of their time. It was the thing that Queen Elizabeth said no to. They pitched being part time royals half in, half out and Queen Elizabeth said no, that's just not gonna work for me. Well, what Harry and Meghan have now figured out, unfortunately is they do not need the palace approval. He will always be Diana's son. He will always be Harry. People do have a feeling towards him as a little boy walking behind his mommy's coffin. We still all remember that her not so much. But Harry is going to be somebody that we're always going to be interested in. And he's just figured out now that he doesn't need the royal's family to be a part time royal. He is a part time royal. He will be now for the rest of his life. And so I'm told from my palace insiders is that they were really angry about this, that they don't want it. But now they're at the point where they're sort of like, let them, what can we do? Let them. They're going to do this again. They're going to repeat this Australia trip in different countries, probably Commonwealth countries, where there will be affection towards Harry and crowds will turn up. And then at the end of it, she'll sell you a pot of jam. But there's nothing the royals can do. You can't stop him from going to a hospital. You can't stop, stop him from going to a women's shelter. And so I think though, this is going to become boring, this is going to become old news really, really fast. Because once again, the only thing that makes them interesting is the one thing that they are running away from, or at least say they're running away from.
- [75:00]
Megyn Kelly
So they, but they keep breaking open the same act she gets in front of this group of women who gather to, to celebrate her at seventeen hundred dollars a pop and decided to tell them how terrible her life was, how difficult her life has been. It's amazing how difficult her life has been. And she's traveling around with a prince of England and going back to her multimillion dollar Montecito mansion and you know, touring on the beaches of Australia with throngs of People following her. But she's had it really rough. She wants you to know. And then Harry, you report is potentially thinking about writing a self help book. But Rob, we just discussed the other day on this program how he got up there and he talked about how he did. He never wanted to be a royal working royal because it killed his mother. And went on to talk about how, how he is stressed out. He was in the fetal position and he's basically unable to function. Like he, he actually talked to the, to the crowd about how difficult his life has been and how completely overwhelmed he's been. Like these two, she can't get over some bad press she had. That's the terrible stuff that's happened to her. And he can't get over tragedy that has happened to him. But it was 30 years ago.
- [76:24]
Rob Shuter
Right, right, right. He's somebody that has recently discovered therapy. And as a Brit, I can admit the Brits are not good about it. This. They don't really talk about their feelings very much. And when I first came to America 30 years ago, I was absolutely shocked at how Americans would tell you all all their secrets, which is good for me as a gossip columnist. But Harry has recently, recently, recently discovered therapy. And anybody that recently discovers something gets, gets sort of intoxicated by it. We know he's an addictive personality. We know he's got issues in the past. And so my insiders tell me that this is where he sees his future. And he very much enjoys talking about mental health. He's going to turn into one of those Mel Robbins type podcaster self help. Yes, yes, it's going to be, it's going to be one of those things. I spoke to people in the publishing world. His last book sold really, really well. They'd love to do a second book with him. And I, I'm told it's going to be one of those self help, Oprah type books about finding confidence.
- [77:28]
Megyn Kelly
And Meghan, here's the, here's the irony, Rob. The people who spend their lives writing about this crap are the last people you should be listening to on how to change your life. People who are well adjusted and know how to deal with their problems do not spend their time thinking about, oh, this version of therapy and that version and let me write a whole book about therapy. That's the last person you should be taking advice from. He's clearly miserable, Rob.
- [77:54]
Rob Shuter
He's clearly, clearly miserable. He has not got over. Move on, move on. I think that's what life's about. You know, we can't Diminish the death of his mother. A traumatic experience. But the royal family did not kill her. A drunk driver killed her, and she turned down royal protection. So what he's fighting to get in Britain, his mother passed on. His mother didn't want that anymore. So it's not really accurate what he's saying. Saying about. About his mom. And I think William lost his mommy, too. She wasn't just Harry's mom. And William seems to have dealt with it. And so there. There is a way. I. I would argue that sitting down and doing interviews, traveling to Australia and being paid to talk about your grief is not the best way to handle it, but it certainly is the Sussex way.
- [78:45]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, gosh. So then she goes, when she's over there, onto their version of MasterChef, because, you know, she's trying to make herself into a Martha Stewart, literally stealing Martha Stewart's recipes. Maureen and I covered that parody we did of With Love, Megan. It's the same recipe. She clearly stole it from Martha Stewart. But so she so that for this, that she gets a guest appearance on MasterChef. Way to be complicit, MasterChef people. And she's reportedly very upset about this description. Description of her when she walked out. And I'll tell you why. Here it is. We've had MasterChef royalty in the kitchen before, but no one like this. All the way from sunny California, Please welcome to MasterChef Australia,
- [79:34]
Molly Hemingway
the Duchess of Sussex, Megan Mark. Perfect.
- [79:51]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my Lord. So the Daily Mail's reporting she's very upset that they called her Royalty Rocks because she's not supposed to be called. So I'm. I'm sure she was really torn up inside by the way. They didn't even really call her royalty. They just said, like, royalty in the kitchen. Like, Master Chef royalty. The same way, you know, you're. You're Hollywood royalty. I'm journalism. Like, she's pretending like. And this is all bullshit. You and I both know she loved being called a royal. That's the whole reason she married Harry.
- [80:23]
Rob Shuter
She loves it. I've covered Meghan for a really long time. That episode was taped. It wasn't live. She would have stopped them and retaped the introduction had they not called her royalty. The only reason she's on that show is her association with the royal family. They didn't hire her because she was on Suits when she was a Deal or no Deal girl. She wasn't on MasterChef. I don't. I don't resent MasterChef doing this I've worked in TV. You know TV better than anybody. It's about ratings. That's all they care about. And having, having her on is gonna get ratings, even if it's people watching it to hate it. And so that's what they're doing here. So I tip my hat to them. But Meghan playing a lot. It's almost like costume play, isn't it? It's like, it's like they've dressed up and today we're going to put a crown on and a cape on. And tomorrow we can be nurses and doctors and we can be social workers the next day. It's all playing, it's all cosplay and people know it.
- [81:15]
Megyn Kelly
She can't, she can't get the normal master chef to put her on like those two are. They are poison here in America, never mind the uk, where it's even worse. No, no one's going to put them on for, for ratings. Rather I say like the, the public has turned on them. That's why they have to go to Australia for this. But she, even there, she reportedly wanted to meet with Steve Irwin's family. You know, of course he died. He was the environmentalist guy who would take us all over the world with the animals and they would not meet with her because they are reportedly staunch monarchists and fiercely loyal to Prince William and Princess Kate. And they knew that touching these two was absolutely a no no. So they got the back of the hand. And then you know what she is, Rob? She's a disaster tourist. She went to Uvalde after those poor children were killed in that school shooting. And then she went by Princess Diana's death site with her feet up on like the, the window, like famously playing with her feet, like what, where her mother in law was killed. And now she goes while she's in Australia to Bondi beach where just months ago all these Jewish Aussies were killed. And she gets the crowds to follow her. And look at this brilliant woman who refuses to move off of her. Look at her. She's like, you will move around me. I love that woman. She speaks for us all. And then after she does this on Bondi beach, she posted she's doing something about her outfits, which a lot of celebs do. No, I don't begrudge her posting. This is what I wore and this is where you can buy it. But maybe not while you were visiting a site of a mass shooting, like, hey, here I am where people died months ago and this is where you can buy my outfit.
- [83:06]
Rob Shuter
It's tone deaf. It's tone deaf. But it's not surprising. They have nobody around them telling them and helping them. That's not by accident. They get fired. Anybody who works with them. I know people who have worked with them and they were really difficult and they don't want experts. They want yes people, and now they have them. But you're right to go to Bondi beach and to meet with people who are survivors. And it's been pointed out too, in the Australian press. She's wearing a striped pajama type top, which is very reminiscent of what happened at Auschwitz and during the Holocaust. And so just the lack of sensitivity, just the lack of awareness, it's, it's, it's, it's mind blowing. But I think this is what narcissists do. This is who they are in their little bubble. I spoke to some sources of mine who know them and I said they must be on the joke or they, they must not know. They're not. We spoke a moment ago about Blake Lively being in her own little bubble until it shattered spectacularly. Megan's bubble has still not shattered. They think this trip was wildly successful. They're going to use this as a, as a prototype, as a rollout for other countries. And now you can expect to see them going on tour like their Beyonce or Madonna. Except when they turn up in your country, they've got nothing to sell. It is a house of cards, Megan. You know, when Madonna, when Taylor turns up in London, you pay a lot of money and you go and see a great show. I get it. I just don't get this business model. Like, I don't understand what this is. And, you know, I don't work for them, thank goodness. And if I did, though, I'd sit them down and say, like, who are you? Like, what. What is the product? What, what, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? They'd have no answer. They. They don't know what they're doing. All they know is that they are angry royals and that's what they're going to keep talking about. But as anyone knows, when you keep playing the same song over and over and over, it loses its meaning. There's a reason Phantom of the Opera drops the chandelier once. Because the second time it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's only impressive.
- [85:16]
Megyn Kelly
Good point.
- [85:17]
Rob Shuter
Once. They're playing the same trick too many
- [85:19]
Megyn Kelly
times over there, like, oh, we just got caught at this children's cancer hospital. And that too, we need to make about ourselves. Like, if you want to help children with cancer, go, go, go to St. Jude's don't tell us about it.
- [85:34]
Rob Shuter
Right?
- [85:34]
Megyn Kelly
Maybe later you can do an ad, like a free ad for them saying St. Jude's is amazing. Please donate. But it's always about them. She needs to be seen there, just like she needed to be seen at Uvalde, of all places. They always make it about themselves, which is just so cynical. All right, standby. Much, much more. We're talking to Rob Shooter. His book is it's It Started with a Whisper. As you can plainly hear. He's got amazing sources and amazing stories, many of which in some way, shape or form have allegedly reportedly made their way into this book. Though it is a novel, it is fiction. Hello, lawyers, it's fiction. But check it out. It started with a whisper. Super fun to read. All right, standby. Coming right back with Rob. We're going to talk about the failing Met Gala and the latest speaking of morning tv, which is book is about the latest from what's happening over at NBC. When the dollar's convertibility into gold ended in 1971, gold was fixed at $35 an ounce. Fast forward to today and the US dollar has lost more than 85% of its purchasing power. Gold, on the other hand, has increased in value by over 12,000%. That's why major firms like Vanguard and BlackRock hold significant positions in gold. And that's why you may want to consider diversifying your savings with physical gold from Birch Gold Group. But it starts with education. Birchgold just announced their Learn and Earn Precious Metals event. This free online event rewards you for learning the basics of investing in precious metals. Sign up to get free silver on your next purchase and get even larger incentives as you go. The more you learn, the more you can earn. But you have to act now as this special event only runs through April 30th. Text my initials MK to the number 989898 to join Birchgold's Learn and Earn Precious Metals event by April 30th. Go now because there's not much time. Text MK to 989898 today. Paying 70, 80, 90amonth to Big Wireless for unlimited data is insane. Especially when PureTalk is going to give you unlimited high speed data for just 34.99amonth. Unlimited high speed data at Pure Talk used to start at 55 bucks a month. But because Pure Talk is constantly pushing to give you more for less, you can now get unlimited high speed data for just under $35. How about that. So if you've looked at Pure Talk before and didn't make the move, check again. The deal is amazing. And if you're wondering, is Pure Talk's network really as good as the overpriced big guys, try it out for 30 days with no contract and no cancellation fees. You have nothing to lose except all these extra expenses. Their US Customer service team is standing by to help you switch in as little as 10 minutes. You just dial £250 and say Megan Kelly. That will help you claim this unlimited high speed data for just $34.99. Again, dial £250, say Megan Kelly to switch to America's wireless company, Pure Talk. Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111, and on the Sirius XM app. Here with me today, Rob Shooter. He's celebrity reporter and author of the novel It Started With a Whisper out. Tomorrow I'll read you just part of chapter two. Let's see who we think this could be about. As I waited for my client to arrive at her premiere, I slid my little arm into my pant pocket. As I always did. My practiced eyes performed a final sweep over the meticulously arranged settings. I knew her tastes, her preferences, her aversions better than I knew my own. The lighting had to be a soft, rosy pink, casting a warm, dreamy glow that was flattering but never obvious. The temperature must remain at a perfect 76 degrees, comfortable enough to feel like a gentle embrace, but cool enough to ensure not a single bead of sweat would betray her. And carnations. Heaven forbid. If one of those audacious flowers dared to make an appearance, it would be the end of my career as I knew it. I quickly ran over and opened her car door. A long, impossibly elegant leg emerged first. And then it went. This piece ends with. She spat out her gum directly into my outstretched palm. I guess it was the only benefit of being invisible. I didn't feel embarrassed. I didn't feel ashamed. I felt numb. Okay, JLo. I loved 76 degrees too. Ah, no confirmation needed. It's fine. It's just in my own supposition.
- [90:34]
Rob Shuter
You sounded good.
- [90:35]
Megyn Kelly
You can read.
- [90:36]
Rob Shuter
You sounded great. You said all about it. You sounded great. Will you do the audio version? Will you do my audiobook? You say keep reading. Keep reading.
- [90:43]
Megyn Kelly
I would love to. And I'll say it starts with a
- [90:46]
Rob Shuter
whisper
- [90:48]
Molly Hemingway
by Rob Shooter.
- [90:49]
Megyn Kelly
Check it out. Okay, I do want to talk about morning TV in one second, but first, can we spend a minute on your latest scoop at Naughty by Nice substack on the failing Met Gala. It happens every year on that first weekend of May. And we are on our way to another dose of cultural irrelevance and sad past your prime displays. Walk us through it.
- [91:13]
Rob Shuter
Yeah. So I broke a story this morning that the Met has not sold out. It's the first year where they're actually discounting ticket prices. So designers pay hundreds.
- [91:22]
Molly Hemingway
Horror.
- [91:22]
Rob Shuter
The horror. Designers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a table. But really what they're doing is almost. I don't want to use the word blackmail, but they are buying Anna Winters attention. They want to be in Vogue. However, Vogue is not the magazine that it once was. In fact, if you. If you still read Vogue, you'll see how thin it is. A lot of those ads have disappeared. And so why are designers paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a table to impress somebody who's no longer technical, technically the editor in chief, when they could spend that money on influencers on different shows. The media has changed so much over the last decade, over the last five years, over the last two years, that the reason the Met Ball was so successful was because of Vogue. And if Vogue is no longer a success, that's going to play out at the Met Ball also too, let's add, it's not the ball that it used to be. Now it is about reality stars. It's not quite as glamorous as it used to be, but this is ultimately a business decision. If I am the executive of a massive fashion company, how can I justify spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a table that is going to give me very little return for that cost? And so the days of Anna Winter running the world of fashion, which is why this ball was a success. Everybody went to kiss her bottom. Nobody cares anymore. Nobody really cares about what Anna Winter thinks. I can think of five celebrities who are much more powerful in the world of fashion than. Than Anna Winter. And so the ship has sailed. But the ball is still going on. But it's not the ball that it used to be.
- [92:59]
Megyn Kelly
It's so true. She doesn't have that kind of power anymore. You'd be much better off if you had $350,000 to waste, spending it on getting Sydney Sweeney to do one post on her Instagram wearing your jacket. I mean, like, it's. It's not. It's not hard anymore. And you don't need Anna at all. And now it's become, like a subject of just scorn. Now we watch it just to hate everybody who's there, just to rip on them, just sort of laugh at how they've gotten to the party really late and they missed sort of its peak. So, like, query, who would actually go to that and do that? Okay, moving on. The morning television drama is back, and you have a scoop on what's happening over on the Today show. Tell us what the latest is, where Savannah returned beginning late last week or early last week. Monday.
- [93:44]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, Savannah returned to the show. I think it was on the 6th. And the show really thought this was going to be a massive moment. Everybody at NBC thought there were going to be hundreds of people, if not thousands of people in the plaza that hired extra security. They thought that this was going to be like a pop concert, like Justin Bieber was. It was in the plaza. A decent sized crowd turned up, but it was not overwhelming. And then the ratings for Savannah's return, they were up. They were up, but they were not up like the show thought it would be. I actually got an email from a publicist at NBC complaining that I was covering Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. And I reminded them that nobody has covered this story more than NBC. And so NBC really lent into this. This story. I think they did it in a decent way. I hope so. But at the same time, I got to admit, you know, I'm hearing from people inside the building that there was a little bit of an opportunity here for the network to increase their ratings and to get people really behind the Today show, which really is neck and neck with Good Morning America. In fact, there's been some weeks when GMA have even beaten the Today show. And so over there, at the moment, the Savannah card, the Savannah moment didn't quite turn out to be what they wanted it, what they hoped, what they expected it to be. And I think that's because this story, it's a really complicated story. It's a really frustrating story. There's so many pieces of this story that just don't add up. And so NBC was very happy to do a Dateline special and to promote this on the Nightly news and the Today show for weeks and weeks and weeks. But now they're not asking the big questions anymore because they're complicated. None of this makes sense.
- [95:28]
Megyn Kelly
Mm. So the. The numbers that we have is she came back. And for that week, viewers in the Overall went up 6%. That's the, you know, people who are 55 and up demo. Viewers 25 to 54 went up 2%, which is not at all right. Just 2. Which is not at all what NBC was hoping for. They thought it would be this big bonanza. Savannah's back. The problem they have, as I see it, Rob, is Savannah was never a big star. She. People have empathy for her, great empathy for her, but it didn't make her a big star. Even now that they really want to watch deliver the news, it's far, far, far from where it was when it was Katie and Matt. And the morning show wars had genuine, like, celebrities. They became celebrities because the shows were so popular. Those days are gone. And so they're just trying to glom on to the former glory. And the audience is like, eh, we're not really into it.
- [96:24]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, absolutely. I've had dinner with. With Matt Lauer and Katie Couric, and it was really exciting. When you walked into a restaurant with those two 20 years ago, the restaurant, like, was. Was buzzing. It was brilliant. I. I've walked with Savannah down the street. I don't think I've had dinner with her, but I've been around them. Nobody recognizes them. It's just a different era, and there's nothing wrong with that, except when you don't acknowled. Talk to the people at NBC. I talk to them about coming on for my book. My last book. I was on the. I was on the Today show. This book. They looked down their nose at. They didn't. They didn't want gossip. They didn't even return my calls. Now the good news is I'm going to do their competitor, and I'm very happy about doing that. But the Today show still operates as if it's 2000. They still think that they are the most important game in town, and that's no longer the case. And so wake up, smell the coffee. You can still make a good living. I'm glad that the show is on. I'm glad that they book guests on the show, but it's not what it was. It's over.
- [97:27]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it's funny because we know a lot of people in publishing and truly not. Not to toot our own horn, but the word on the street is if you want to sell books, you should come on the Megyn Kelly Show.
- [97:35]
Rob Shuter
Megan Kelly.
- [97:36]
Megyn Kelly
They all. All the publishers, they know that. And if. Because if we really get behind a book, you know, and we won't do it for everybody, but if we really get behind a book, our audience trusts us, and our audience is great, and they will buy it.
- [97:49]
Rob Shuter
I'm hoping you are right. I know you are. When I told my publisher that I was doing your show, he's a very conservative gentleman. He did a cartwheel. He was so excited that I'm here on this show. He's so excited about it. You're right. The world has changed.
- [98:05]
Megyn Kelly
You know, Rob, it's because I put my relationship up with my audience or with my audience up against the relationship the Today show anchors have with theirs any day of the week. It's just so much more intimate. They know your weaknesses. They know your strengths. They know when you're in a good mood, when you're in a bad mood. Like, it's a shared relationship that's just so much more close and real. It is.
- [98:27]
Rob Shuter
But you.
- [98:27]
Megyn Kelly
Than you will ever find on morning tv.
- [98:29]
Rob Shuter
Yeah, but you also do the work. Let me just, like, reveal to everybody. Listening, watching. I didn't necessarily want to send you this book. I didn't want to send you the manuscript. I was really nervous about it. And your team was pretty honest. They said, you don't get on Meghan's show to talk about a book if we don't read it. She reads every single book. That sounds obvious. That sounds like, oh, that makes sense. It doesn't. It never happens. I have done so many shows.
- [98:55]
Megyn Kelly
I feel like I owe it.
- [98:56]
Rob Shuter
Yes, you do the work.
- [98:57]
Megyn Kelly
I feel like I owe it to the author. If you're. If you're gonna say, okay, come here first to promote your book, and you don't do them the courtesy of actually reading it and knowing what's in there. Then you know, then you're the Today Show. Then you give the person three minutes. You get up and down in a story. The people walk away feeling utterly confused about why this person was there. And they don't remember anything about the book. It started with a whisper by Rob Shooter, right? And you walk away unsatisfied. Then. Then the author gets no pop as a result of the appearance. And so, like, what was the. What was the point of it? All right? So in any event. Okay, thank you. I want to go back to one of the things. So in your. In your. Your. Your reporting, you. You write about how there's tension now between Savannah and Hoda on the set. And I think that this is very interesting to me because they've been trying to pitch us for a very long time now about how it's all a family, and those two are so close. And we saw Hoda make it all about herself when she interviewed Savannah on her first interview back. And that you are getting to the actual truth, which is it is not a family. It is a cutthroat, very nasty industry where everyone's trying to oust everyone.
- [100:02]
Rob Shuter
It's vicious. And that's why these environments are the best places to base a novel or a story. It is so cutthroat. I've worked in magazines. I've worked in gossip. I've worked with celebrities. I've had my own morning show. There was nothing more nasty and nothing more cutthroat than a morning show. It was so brutal. Savannah and Hoda have never got along. And it goes back to Matt Lauer. My reporting is that Matt did not really like Savannah that much, and to punish her, he promoted.
- [100:32]
Megyn Kelly
That's my recording, too.
- [100:34]
Rob Shuter
You probably. Did I steal that from you? I'm sorry, but we. At least maybe. Maybe we have to say.
- [100:37]
Megyn Kelly
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying. I've never talked about this before, but that's. That is.
- [100:42]
Rob Shuter
It was Matt. Matt wanted to put Savannah in her place. And what did he do? He brought out Hoda. Well, when he got fired, Savannah didn't want Hoda. She wanted Willie Geist. And the first few episodes, it's not Hoda. It's Willy. But nobody watched. And so that's why Sav. That's why she got the job. So she got the job despite Savannah. These two are not friends. They don't even really like each other. You're never gonna see them hanging out. There's tension. There's real tension.
- [101:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's. I mean, one of the many pieces of drama is to see if they can pull off the act. And let me tell you, they did not do it in that interview with Hoda and her fake tears that anybody could see. Willie Geist is a fine reporter, but he. He is as exciting as this piece of blank paper. So it was never gonna happen. Unlike our friend Rob Shooter, who's amazing. You've gotta out his debut novel. It is so fun. True. Truly. Trust me. I promise you, you will enjoy it. It's out tomorrow. It's called It Started with a Whisper. Rob, thanks so much for being here, and we'll hear you again soon here and on the nerve.
- [101:42]
Rob Shuter
I can't wait to be back. Thank you for being so kind. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [101:47]
Megyn Kelly
Lots of love. That was so fun. What a. What a great Monday. Okay, we're back tomorrow with our pals from National Review. We will see y' all then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Ready to refresh your wardrobe?
- [102:11]
Molly Hemingway
Nordstrom has all the latest styles for spring.
- [102:13]
Megyn Kelly
From elevated dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories. Discover the trends and essentials you'll reach for again and again. Again.
- [102:20]
Molly Hemingway
We've got brands you love like Waif,
- [102:22]
Megyn Kelly
Princess, Polly, Mango, Adidas, and Favorite Daughter. Plus free shipping, free returns, and quick order pickup. Make updating your closet effortless. Shop in stores@nordstrom.com or download our app.