Shocking Revolving Door at FDA and Pfizer, and How to Live Forever, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra and Bryan Johnson | Ep. 1014

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Megyn Kelly Show | Ep. 1014 Title: Shocking Revolving Door at FDA and Pfizer, and How to Live Forever, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra and Bryan Johnson
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Bryan Johnson
Release Date: February 26, 2025

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1. Revolving Door Between FDA and Pfizer

Timestamp: 07:43

Megyn Kelly initiates the discussion by addressing a critical issue concerning the transition of key personnel between regulatory bodies and pharmaceutical companies. She highlights the recent departure of the FDA's former Director of the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, Patrizia Cavazzoni, who resigned from the FDA to assume a position as Chief Medical Officer at Pfizer.

Megyn Kelly:
"This revolving door between big pharma and our public health agencies is exactly what Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said he was going to try to tackle." ([12:20])

Dr. Aseem Malhotra expresses his disdain for such movements, questioning the allegiance of individuals who switch from overseeing public health to joining pharmaceutical giants.

Dr. Aseem Malhotra:
"It's disgusting. I mean this woman went to FDA from Pfizer, overseeing public health and drugs, then goes right back to Pfizer. Whose interest is she actually serving?" ([08:54])

2. Influence of Big Pharma on Regulatory Agencies

Timestamp: 09:17

Megyn Kelly elaborates on the problematic funding structures of regulatory bodies, specifically the FDA, which receives 65% of its funding from big pharmaceutical companies. She argues that this creates inherent biases, leading regulators to prioritize industry interests over public health.

Megyn Kelly:
"The FDA gets 65% of its funding from big Pharma. So it's in their interests to approve drugs more quickly and not challenge the industry." ([09:17])

Dr. Malhotra concurs, emphasizing the conflict of interest and its detrimental impact on public trust.

Dr. Aseem Malhotra:
"The people working at the FDA don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, and they're friendly to the industry because they know they'll get lucrative jobs down the line." ([09:22])

3. Vaccine Safety Concerns

Timestamp: 10:00

The conversation shifts to the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines. Megyn Kelly criticizes the initial trials and approvals, citing studies that suggest the vaccines may have caused more harm than good.

Megyn Kelly:
"Independent studies reanalyzed the original trials and found that participants were more likely to suffer serious harm from the COVID vaccines than be hospitalized with COVID. The serious harm rate was about one in 800." ([10:00])

She references a survey indicating significant adverse events and a Dutch study linking COVID vaccines to excess deaths globally.

Megyn Kelly:
"A BMJ study suggested the COVID vaccines contributed to 2 million excess deaths globally." ([10:00])

4. Personal Experiences and Health Implications

Timestamp: 16:48

Megyn Kelly shares her personal health struggles following COVID-19 vaccination, including developing psoriasis and experiencing depression, which she links to the vaccine. Dr. Malhotra supports her account by mentioning similar cases among his patients and advocating for a global moratorium on COVID vaccines.

Megyn Kelly:
_"I developed psoriasis, an autoimmune condition, about a year and a half after receiving the Pfizer booster." ([16:48])

Dr. Malhotra:
"We need to talk about these issues openly to prevent future problems and identify who may be at risk." ([24:21])

5. Critique of Overmedication and Medical System

Timestamp: 27:33

Dr. Aseem Malhotra delves into the broader issues of overmedication and the influence of Big Pharma in shaping medical practices. He criticizes the reliance on LDL cholesterol as a primary indicator of heart health and the widespread prescription of statins, arguing that their benefits are minimal and often overshadowed by side effects.

Dr. Malhotra:
"Most of the health expenditure in the US comes from prescription drugs for chronic disease management, which are often pretty useless." ([27:33])

Megyn Kelly echoes these sentiments, highlighting the need for a paradigm shift in how we approach health and wellness, focusing on diet, exercise, and stress reduction instead of medication.

6. Brian Johnson's Anti-Aging Movement

Timestamp: 54:49

In the second half of the episode, Bryan Johnson, the founder of the "Don't Die" movement, joins the conversation. He discusses his extensive anti-aging routines, which include a combination of diet, exercise, supplements, and experimental therapies aimed at extending his lifespan and improving his health markers.

Bryan Johnson:
"By doing Blueprint for two years, I've reversed my biological age by 5.1 years and achieved 50 perfect biomarkers." ([54:49])

He outlines his daily regimen, which involves strict sleep schedules, high-intensity exercise, and advanced therapies like hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Johnson emphasizes the importance of measurement and data in optimizing health, advocating for personalized approaches based on individual health metrics.

Bryan Johnson:
"The most important marker you look for is your resting heart rate before bed. It's the number one indicator of your overall health." ([73:58])

7. Conclusion and Call to Action

Timestamp: 101:10

As the episode concludes, Megyn Kelly and her guests stress the urgency of addressing systemic issues within the healthcare and regulatory systems. They advocate for transparency, accountability, and a shift towards preventive health measures that prioritize individual well-being over corporate profits.

Megyn Kelly:
"We need to have open, honest conversations about these critical issues to build a healthier future for everyone." ([101:17])

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Notable Quotes

• Megyn Kelly ([09:22]):

  "Those working at the FDA don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. They're friendly to the industry because they know they'll get lucrative jobs down the line."

• Dr. Aseem Malhotra ([27:33]):

  "Most of the health expenditure in the US comes from prescription drugs for chronic disease management, which are often pretty useless."

• Bryan Johnson ([54:49]):

  "By doing Blueprint for two years, I've reversed my biological age by 5.1 years and achieved 50 perfect biomarkers."

• Bryan Johnson ([73:58]):

  "The most important marker you look for is your resting heart rate before bed. It's the number one indicator of your overall health."

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Key Insights

• Regulatory Integrity: The close ties between regulatory agencies like the FDA and pharmaceutical companies compromise public health interests, prioritizing profits over safety.

• Vaccine Safety: Emerging studies and personal accounts suggest significant adverse effects from COVID-19 vaccines, raising concerns about their safety and the integrity of the approval process.

• Overmedication Critique: The current medical system's reliance on pharmaceuticals, particularly for chronic disease management, is ineffective and often harmful, necessitating a reevaluation of health strategies.

• Preventive Health Focus: Emphasizing diet, exercise, and stress management can significantly improve health outcomes, reduce dependency on medications, and enhance longevity.

• Anti-Aging Innovations: Personalized, data-driven approaches to health, as demonstrated by Bryan Johnson, offer promising avenues for extending lifespan and improving quality of life through meticulous self-optimization.

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Conclusion

Episode 1014 of The Megyn Kelly Show delves into critical discussions about the compromised integrity of regulatory bodies due to financial ties with pharmaceutical companies, raising alarms about the safety and efficacy of widely administered COVID-19 vaccines. Dr. Aseem Malhotra and Bryan Johnson provide compelling arguments and personal anecdotes that challenge conventional medical practices, advocating for a shift towards preventive health measures and innovative anti-aging strategies. The episode underscores the urgent need for transparency and accountability within the healthcare system to foster a healthier and more trustworthy environment for the public.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Aseem Malhotra]

Your High Five moment [e-mail] no purchase necessary. Void. We're prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. Oh, we have a great, great health and wellness show lined up for you today. But some important things to get to. Well, both in the actual show and first with this announcement in an exclusive here at the Megyn Kelly Show. This is a follow up to a story we brought you a couple of weeks ago when we had U.S. senator Tommy Tuberville. Tuberville of Alabama here. Coach. We talked about the fact that the Senate was not bringing the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports act to the floor. Watch.

[Brian Johnson]

79% of the people in this country, Republican and Democrats, say it is wrong for men or boys to participate in women's sports. John Thune told me he's going to get it to the floor. He hadn't done it. Now it's time to put up or shut up. 50 years of title nine. It has been decimated by the Biden and the Democrats and all the far left progressives. Now is the time to put pressure on the Democrats, get them on the vote that they're going to vote against girls and women. Just don't worry about winning or losing on this.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Let's get it out there where people.

[Brian Johnson]

Can see what's going on.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Well, we can report exclusively now that the bill will in fact hit the floor. It's expected to hit tomorrow. All GOP senators are expected to vote yes. We'll see about the other side of the aisle. We've got to, you know, they got to get through the cloture vote first, which is where they vote on whether they should have a vote. That's where the Democrats can stop it. So in other words, you need 60 yes votes to allow A vote. And if they can't get 60 yes votes to allow a vote, then the bill dies. If they get 60 yes votes to allow a vote, then the Republicans should get this through since they have a majority in the Senate and all. We're told all GOP senators are expected to vote yes on the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports act, which does exactly what it says it's going to do and keeps biological boys out of girls sports. Will the Democrats, seven of them, cross over to allow a cloture vote so that we can see a substantive vote go forward? We'll watch out. And, and we will be naming every single name who votes against this. We will be looking at their districts and I guarantee you that there will be an activation like you've never seen before in every single one of those senators districts. I'm talking to you Democrats. Forget Republicans. If they did this, every single Democrat because this issue has over 80% support with the American public. What kind of villain would vote against even allowing a vote to protect young girls? We will be naming you all if you vote against this. So let's find out. And on the other side, if we get seven Democrats who allow this vote to go forward, who vote for the bill, anybody who actually substantively supports it, we will be celebrating here you here on the Megyn Kelly show. And don't think it doesn't matter. Trust me, it does. We continue to face uncertainty when it comes to the economy with a perfect storm brewing. As Social Security and Medicare hit a breaking point, as the largest generation is hitting retirement, a smaller workforce means a smaller tax base. You pair that with our growing national debt and rising cost of living and we could have a big problem. So what are you doing now to protect your family for the future? Well, gold can be a safe haven in hard economic times. And Birch Gold makes it easy to diversify a portion of your savings into physical gold. Birch Gold will help you Transition an existing IRA or 401k into an IRA in gold. And it does not cost you $0.01 out of pocket. Protect your future today. Text MK to 989-898 and get your free info kit on Gold and a copy of the Ultimate Guide for Gold in the Trump Era with a foreword by Donald Trump Jr. There's no obligation, just information. Birch Gold has earned the trust of countless Americans looking to safeguard their savings. Just text my initials MK to the number 989898 today. All right, now to today's show. Later, we're gonna be joined by one of the most fascinating Men in media right now. His name is Brian Johnson. You probably have seen his promo on Netflix. He's leading the Don't Die movement. I mean, I think we know how that turns out, but he would say we don't. He has personally taken some extreme measures to try to live up to his movement's name. And if you watch this Netflix documentary, it's crazy the way he's living, but you know, is he crazy like a fox? Is he going to outlive us all? And does he have some helpful tips where we could be maybe less extreme, but maybe instead of living forever, we get an extra 10 good years? We will talk to him second hour. First, though, we start with a close advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. As RFKJ takes over at HHS. Dr. Aseem Malhotra is the co founder of Metabolic Reset. It's an online group to support your metabolic health. The doctor's been on this program before and we talked about his thoughts on things like your LDL cholesterol and how this may not really be the be all, end all when it comes to predicting whether you're going to have a heart attack. And it was a fascinating episode. He is a cardiologist. Aseem, welcome back to the show. Great to see you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Likewise, Megan.

[Aseem Malhotra]

I love the time we had together before because it really takes something that's a very scary number to most people, which is that LDL score and gives people a new way of thinking about it. You know, you can talk to your own cardiologist, but you are a cardiologist and you were making some really interesting points about how we've been ruled by that number for too long. And we've been totally reliant on these statins for too long, irrespective of whether they cause side effects that can be very annoying to those taking them. So anyway, I'll get you the episode number, folks, so you can go back and take a look at that. But now Aseem is advising RFKJ and has got some thoughts on what's happening at HHS and where RFKJ is likely to take the public health industry. Already we've seen the need for him. Just this week in the news, the fact that the FDA's top dog left the FDA and went to Pfizer to be hired as their chief medical officer. This is exactly what RFKJ said he was going to try to tackle. This revolving door between big pharma and our public health agencies, which are obviously compromised. Your thoughts on it?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, Megan, it's just a symptom of a system failure really, these commercial distortions of health and healthcare. We had something similar in the UK last year. Jonathan Van Tam, who was a deputy chief medical officer, left his government position to get a lucrative job with Moderna. So it's almost things are happening in parallel and it's a real issue because we know that the interests of these big corporations, these drug companies is not putting people first. It's about profit. It's profit through manipulation, profit through mass deception. We've seen the worst of the greatest failings of the system played out through the COVID pandemic, certainly with the rollout of the COVID vaccine. And it really just continues this sort of behavior, to be honest. And these sorts of actions just can will undermine trust in our institutions and the medical establishment.

[Aseem Malhotra]

It's really amazing and it's disgusting. I mean this woman, she actually went to FDA from Pfizer, then goes to FDA overseeing public health and the drugs that are gonna be fed to us and then goes right back out back to Pfizer. I mean, whose interest is she actually serving?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, so you know, it's interesting because also people need to understand why or how this happens. One of the problems we have with the approval of drugs or vaccines is that the so called regulatory agencies that people believe to be independent are not. The FDA gets 65% of its funding from big Pharma. So what that means is as well.

[Aseem Malhotra]

For the people, again. Can you say that again? I don't know if people understand that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, the FDA and other regulators in the uk, the MHRA, get most of their funding from pharma. So The FDA gets 65% of its funding from big Pharma. So it's in the interests in a way you can understand. So the people working the FDA who are approving the drugs, they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. But also if they are friendly to industry, they potentially know that down the line they're going to get offered lucrative jobs with big Pharma. You know, government jobs don't pay as well as, you know, these big corporations do. So it's a huge bias in the system and it's damaging. It's very, very damaging. And you use the right word. Disgusting.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Disgusting is the right word.

[Brian Johnson]

Megan, what do you mean they get.

[Aseem Malhotra]

65% of their funding from Big Pharma? Like what do you mean? Why isn't the federal government funding the fda?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, well that's a really good question. So I think things really started to. I mean this is part of the economic system we're in, Megan. So up until sort of the 80s, maybe early 90s, most of the funding of these regulatory agencies came from government. But because of the economic change, something called the neoliberalism, that was the brainchild of a Chicago economist who was very close to Ronald Reagan. His name was Milton Friedman. He basically wanted to reduce regulations, if you like, and allow companies to basically have open season when it came to drug development, less regulation, et cetera. And government obviously thought it was better for them to reduce spending, not knowing what the consequences would be. I don't think this was deliberate. And over time, what would happen is the drug companies then took over funding the very industries that are supposed to regulate them because it suits their interests, doesn't it? Of course. Because then they get more drugs approved more quickly. And we're now in a situation where we're having to deal with a massive overmedicated population around the world. In the United States, it's estimated globally. I've said this before, but people need to hear it again. That the third most common cause of death, after heart disease and cancer globally is prescribed medications. This is not even to do with the COVID vaccine or the vaccine. This is pre pandemic figures. And this is just one symptom of why we've got here.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Really, Megan, this is all connected. It's unacceptable discussing, right. The way we eat the toxins that we ingest on a daily basis, the way we poison ourselves with virtually everything that's all around us, and then a public health system that gets rich off of chronic illness and federal regulators who are supposed to be looking out for us, who actually are on the take to big pharma and industries like that, more interested in padding their own pockets than they are potentially in helping the rest of us. Or at least that's how it looks. I mean, I don't know this Patrizia Cavazzoni, but she was the director of the FDA's center for Drug Evaluation and Research from 2020 through this past January. She resigned just ahead of Trump returning to office. And now where does she go, Chief medical officer at Pfizer?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, it's interesting, Megan, because I didn't know that. And that, for me, suggests that she had a big role to play in the approval of the COVID vaccine, which we know has been an absolute horror. Right. If you look at the evidence now, if you allow me to elaborate a little bit on that, I mean, things keep accumulating over time. When the COVID vaccine was approved. Let's Say Pfizer and Moderna, which was the most prominent Covid vaccines used in the United States. We were under this impression, and it was obviously fueled by all sorts of media, especially the legacy media, that it was going to be very protective, maybe 95 to 100% protective against infection, et cetera, et cetera. And of course, that all ultimately proved to be false. But when the original trials were reanalyzed by independent scientists, and this was then published in the peer reviewed journal Vaccine, which is the highest impact medical journal for vaccines, what they found is from the very beginning, Megan, you were more likely to suffer serious harm from the COVID vaccine MRNA vaccines than you were to be hospitalized with COVID And that serious harm rate in the trial was only a short term harm, because I want to come on to long term harms in a second. And that was a rate of about one in 800. Right. So if you think, and that's on the most rigorous data, that's their own original trials where everything is supposed to be equal in terms of the participants who are in the placebo group who don't get the vaccine, the ones that get the vaccine, same background, same age, et cetera. But when these trials are designed, and they were designed by the drug companies, so this is another problem, they design the trials, they control the data, they then give summary results to the regulator. The regulator then approves them, but of course it's in the interest of the regulator to approve them if they're getting funding from big Pharma. So it's a complete mess. That's just short term harms. And then there was an interesting survey done in the United States which was published in one of the major medical journals, I must say, though later retracted, not because of error, but because of pressure, because of the media frenzy that happened as a result of it. They did a survey in the United States that revealed, according to 57% of people surveyed, felt that they knew somebody, either they'd been severely injured or they knew someone that had died or been severely injured from the vaccine. They extrapolated from that and estimated there may have been in the first year of the COVID vaccine in the United states alone, Megan, 280,000 deaths and 1 million serious adverse events. Now, given the other data we know from around the world, there was a publication, the bmj, by Dutch researchers, which suggested the COVID vaccines have contributed to 2 million excess deaths globally. This is pretty horrific stuff. And only last week, you may be aware, Yale researchers published new research that showed a long term effect problem from the vaccine, which is that people who had what we call post vaccine syndrome or long Covid symptoms like fatigue and brain fog, for example, two years after having the vaccine. And Megan, they found in this particular group, they didn't look at other groups, that there was still circulating spike protein in the body, which essentially can be causing damage to the tissues or causing an autoimmune reaction. I personally, Megan and I was pretty okay after the initial vaccine. About a year and a half after the vaccine I developed psoriasis, an autoimmune condition linked to that depression. And I wasn't sure what was going on. And there's a brilliant doctor in Malibu, a very well known established gastroenterologist called Sabine Hazan and she did some published research, which is pretty extraordinary and a bit scary, but we need to talk about it, is that she found that three years after taking the COVID vaccine, a very important bacteria in the gut called bifidobacteria. It's part of a very important part of the gut microbiome. It's a good bacteria, after three years went down to zero. Now why that's important is that bacteria is very important for health. It's important for producing neurotransmitters like serotonin. So a lot of people might be suffering from anxiety, depression because of a vaccine they had two or three years ago triggered almost certainly she feels, she called me up and said, aseem, you have the exact signature of someone who's vaccine injured because your bifid is there. And I've had this resistant problem for now, you know, coming up to a year and a half, I've still got depression, it's mild, but it's still debilitating at times. And I see other doctors I speak to are saying they're seeing explosion of autoimmune conditions. Megan, if you don't mind me asking, I remember you mentioned the fact that you had some issue that you think was vaccine related that caused an autoimmune issue as well.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Positive for an autoimmune condition, though it was undiagnosed or unspecified. Which one?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right, okay, so. And in your mind, do you feel it may have been linked, you know.

[Aseem Malhotra]

With everything you know about your health rheumatologist? No, I asked the rheumatologist, I said, do you think this could be linked to the fact that I got the. I got double shotted by Covid, by Pfizer, I had both of the vaccines and then I got one booster and in New York you couldn't travel, you couldn't do anything unless you prove it was just ridiculous. I wish I hadn't done it, but I did. So I got that third booster, first booster and third shot total. And within a month I got Covid. It was right when the Omicron version started to circulate. So within a month I both had the, the, the booster and then Covid and that then I had my annual physical and it showed up. And I then got sent to a rheumatologist and I asked her, do you think this because it was unspecified, it was like, which one? They tested for a few specific autoimmunes. It didn't like register one versus another. And I said, do you think this could be because of what just happened with the getting the booster and then getting Covid within a month? And she said, yes, I do. And she you're not the only patient I have seen have this exact sequence of events.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. So I think this is, I mean, something I'm seeing with lots of patients as more and more reports coming out. And I think, you know what really needs to happen, Meghan, now there needs to be a moratorium on this COVID vaccine globally. You know, certainly, I know, and I'm sure you've read this, that you know people who are in prominent positions certainly within the new Trump administration, I know they've already expressed concerns historically about the COVID vaccines. We don't need to name them, we all know who they are. But I think the one thing that still needs to happen, and I've got to be honest, I think President Trump is a remarkable man in the way that he has come back. He's so resilient. He's exactly the disruptor we need right now to really change the system for the good. And he's made some really important comments about making sure big pharma companies are accountable. I don't think yet he's on the same page. And probably because he doesn't have the full information around the COVID vaccine. One of the things that keeps getting perpetuated in the media is this. And I'll explain why this is completely false, that the COVID vaccine has saved tens of millions or millions of lives. And the data on which that, you know, that information is based, Megan, is not even. It's the lowest level quality of evidence. It's not even considered in the hierarchy of evidence based medicine to the extent where one of the leading figures in the world in evidence based medicine, a guy called Carl Hennigan at the center of evidence based medicine in Ox, wrote an Article saying that this claim is implausible. Not just him. In the United States you have the most cited medical researcher in the world. His name's Professor John Ioannidis from Stanford. I call him the Stephen Hawking of medicine. You know, a couple of years ago he wrote an article in one of the peer reviewed journals saying that non randomized studies, so studies which aren't the one which I described earlier with the 1 in 800 figure of harm, he says that claims of them being, you know, so beneficial or preventing deaths from COVID et cetera, et cetera, may be spurious. In other words, fake. So we need to really put this to bed and I think if anybody we have this conversation so that President Trump, and I think he's up for turning because I think he was deceived, he was misled by these drug companies. We need to get to a situation where he comes out and says, listen, you know what, we did this with the best of intentions and it's true, we may have saved some lives, certainly in the high risk people. But overall, now the fact that it was given to so many other people at low risk, it's very clear, Megan. For me it's very, very clear with the evidence that we've done more harm than good and it needs to stop. And the reason we need to stop.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Right about now, Let me ask you this Aseem, and by the way, before I forget, the earlier episode with a scene was episode 964-964. Right about now a lot of viewers are having the water rising right here. Like they're starting to get very stressed out because virtually everybody got the vaccine. And, and we have seen, I mean, who among us has not seen a sudden death by a loved one, a friend, it's somebody else's friend, etc. Over the past few years and wondered is it related to that vaccine? And they never say, they will never say it was the vaccine. I mean just nobody says that. But it's like, okay, young, otherwise healthy people are dropping dead and you both worry for those you love and you worry for yourself. I mean, I talk to people who are going down to Mexico and getting all their blood replaced. I'm like, well that how could that possibly work when you've altered your genes, if you've altered your genes, replacing all your blood with new blood is not going to change, change it. And your own body I think replaces your blood anyway over the course of time anyway. Is there anything you can say to make them feel better about their prospects right now?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, listen, I think we have to confront an uncomfortable truth. MEGHAN let's be honest first and foremost. But one of the things why we need to get this stopped and pulled and we need the president involved, is because it's going to give us more information of what we need to do to sort this out. Identify who's at risk so people don't worry unnecessarily. Identify who may be at risk of a further problem, and then we can use the best minds of science and medicine to actually allow research to take place to find the solution. MEGAN that's another issue. It's not just that, oh, people said to me, Dr. Mahotra, listen, it's happened. People don't know about it. I said, no, this is going to be an ongoing issue and we need to talk about it right now so that we can stop problems in the future. One of the things I do, for example, is I see many patients who are vaccine injured. One of the definite things they can do, certainly, which will help is that which is exactly what Make America Health Again is about, is optimize their health when it comes to diet, when it comes to exercise, when it comes to reducing stress, because all these things are additional factors that make you more likely to suffer from these vaccine injuries. One of the other issues that's emerged as well, unfortunately, is that, and it's interesting you said it's not unusual that you got Covid about a month after having the booster or the second dose, because we now know, and it sounds crazy to say it, and it's not just me. I had an email exchange with one of the world's top immunologists, his name is Robert Clancy in Australia. And he just thinks it's mind boggling for him that it's still being used, it causes immunosuppression. We have one of the world's top oncologists, Angus Dalglish in the UK, who is actually behind identifying the CD4 cells being involved in AIDS and HIV. Right. He's a very eminent guy. He's an oncologist and an immunologist. And he's saying that it causes immunosuppression. And especially people who've had boosters are more vulnerable to getting cancer. I've had people who I know, friends of my friends, younger brothers, et cetera, developing cancer. And it's just, and as a doctor, you know, intuitively something isn't right. And we have the data suggesting that the COVID vaccine has a mechanism where it can do this. Now, I'm not saying this is for everybody. And I think it's still going to be in a minority. But the problem is we're now in a situation and I am also equally anxious, having thought I was probably okay. And as you know, my father died as a result of the COVID vaccine. Almost certainly had a sudden cardiac death six months after having two doses of Pfizer. Is that we're now in this uncertain phase. Where is, you know, can problems develop in three or four or five years times that at the moment. We're, we're basically ticking bombs. You know, I don't like to use these words lightly, but, you know, so I don't want to, I don't want to exaggerate the fear, but we need to really have this conversation, not be afraid to say we are concerned and.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Doctors are seeing accountability. That's the thing.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, not at all.

[Aseem Malhotra]

I remember saying, unfortunately this program, if something goes very wrong with the vaccine, these drug companies are going to have to fix it because look at the number of people who are taking the vaccine. There's no way they'll be able to just allow millions of people to be vaccine injured and move forward. And I, I've never been more wrong about anything. That. That is the number one thing I have been wrong about. They, they've been, they've moved on. I mean, Steve Krakauer, my EP was just saying in my ear, we couldn't have even had this conversation three years ago. I mean, as it is, YouTube's probably going to slap a bunch of warnings on this discussion. Fine. Nobo reads your warnings, YouTube. But even to get this video to live three years ago would have been very hard for us. And so it's like the mere fact that you're allowed to raise these questions and say these things is real progress. But we're far, far, far from Pfizer having to look at us and say, here's what we're doing about it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, no, of course. And actually their model, in fact, is probably, and this is how business is done, make money from both sides, is that they are now going to, you know, they've invested heavily in, in cancer drugs for turbo cancers, which are also one of the potential adverse effects of this COVID vaccine. And that's why the definition, this is important for people to understand. We have these big corporations who've got more power than ever. They've become the dominant force in our society. More economic power than many governments, almost tyrannical to a large degree. And the way to describe them as legal entities, in the way they make Money has been defined by the preeminent expert, Robert Hare psychologist, actually fulfilling the criteria for psychopath, psychopathy, you know, callous, unconcerned for the safety of others, incapacity to experience guilt, repeated lying and conning others for profit. You know, and, and this is something that I've seen and been very much aware of pre pandemic. I had, of course I had a blind spot on the COVID vaccine as I had for all vaccines, Megan, because I took two doses myself. But with all the other drugs in the system, I knew that this is exactly how it worked. And of course you see this confluence of interest with like big food, people talk about, you know, big food, essentially drive the chronic disease and then big pharma give us drugs, which by the way, in general are pretty useless. That's another conversation needs to be had when we talk about making America healthy again. And this is absolute fact. Most drugs, so most. A large proportion for most of the health expenditure in the US comes from prescription drugs for chronic disease management. Chronic disease management are things like heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, for example, so called high cholesterol. We talked about already. Most people taking those drugs are not going to get any benefit because this is another shift in the paradigm in the conversations that happens between doctors and patients. We talked about statins, for example, that the benefit at best from taking a statin and preventing a heart attack, people who have not already had a heart attack, which is most people taking statins, is 1%. One in 100 patients are not told that they're not given informed choice, but they're all then exposed to side effects. But the good news is, Megan, once this information becomes freely available, these conversations start happening. We could very quickly improve the system. We can get a more efficient healthcare system. We can reduce cost and improve quality as well at the same time.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Here's the frustrating thing as a consumer or a patient is even I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near as like immersed information as the full MAHA team is. But I mean, I've done a fair amount of interviews with people like you who are very smart on these issues. And I remain confused. Like for example, on the cholesterol issue you and I had, we talked about the LDLs and how they may not be the scary thing that your cardiologist or your doctor will tell you they are. And that in fact as you, you made the point that a higher LDL actually could have a protective effect for older people when it comes to other illnesses and didn't think much of Statins and so on. And then I read Good Energy by Casey Means, who I love and respect and think she's amazing. She's not a cardiologist, but she is a doctor and she's like, like, gotta keep the LDLs down, right? So it's like, you know, it's like, well meaning people like me are like, I don't know what to do. And you're talking about, you know, your heart health and a potential heart attack. So you don't really don't want to get it wrong.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, no, I get that. And, and you know, to be fair to Casey as well, I mean I'm in a very unique position when it comes to the cholesterol discussion because I probably, I'm not blowing my trumpet here as an independent doctor, as a cardiologist that doesn't have any link to industry. I've probably done more research and publications and deep dive and understanding of this cholesterol and statin issue than anyone in the world. And the reality is that once you correct for what we call triglycerides and hdl, parts of the cholesterol profile essentially links to excess body fat and insulin resistance driven by ultra processed food. There is no relationship with LDL cholesterol and development of heart disease. That data was actually already available years ago. At the end of the late 90s, the CO director of the Framingham study, which is where cholesterol emerges a so called risk factor for heart disease, said that if your LDL cholesterol essentially was below as an independent risk factor, did not become apparent as a risk factor for heart disease unless it was at least above 250 or 300. And most, 99% of people, Megan, don't have LDL cholesterol that high. And then we did further research in this group of people that have got a very high LDL, genetically called familial hyperlipidemia that affects 1 in 250 people. Let's just look at those. And this is published in BM David's Based Medicine period. People can look this up me, a number of scientists and we found that in people with very, very high levels of LDL cholesterol above 300, for example, there was no difference in the ones that develop heart disease in their LDL levels and the ones that did develop heart disease. And therefore that is another nail in the coffin to this LDL theory hypothesis that it causes heart disease. It's basically a, I would say a trillion dollar. It's a trillion dollar industry. It's a trillion dollar scam you know the statin benefit that I mentioned, 1% is there from the trials. Having said that, another caveat again, Megan, which is what we need to do and change the system with Maha, is that these drug trials have never been independently evaluated. So we have to trust drug companies. But let's just say it is true that it's 1% benefit. Okay? That's because statins have an independent effect where they are slightly anti clotting and anti inflammatory. And heart disease is an inflammatory condition linked to abnormal clotting and insulin resistance. When you look at all the other drugs that lowering cholesterol or diet, just lowering LDL cholesterol. Again, I was involved in this research published in bmj Evidence Based Medicine. We looked at this and we found no relationship. So lowering cholesterol per se does not prevent heart attacks or stroke. This is an absolute.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Okay, so what does, what does, what does?

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, all right. Right. So the main driver of heart disease, the number one sort of risk factor is insulin resistance, which basically is linked to five markers. And that's why I set up this program called Metabolic Health, which is very easy to measure, very simple. Most doctors aren't having these conversations with patients, which is basically looking at two markers of your cholesterol profile, triglycerides and hdl, so called good cholesterol. Your waist circumference, Megan, whether you have a high blood pressure or what we call pre high blood pressure, pre hypertension, or whether you're pre diabetic or type 2 diabetic. Now one in three adult Americans are type 2 diabetic. And 93% of American adults now have suboptimal Metabolic health. Okay, the good news, Megan, is this. You can optimize this within weeks of just changing diet, cutting out the ultra processed food, minimizing the sugar and the starches from your diet and basically reset. That's what we call metabolic reset.

[Aseem Malhotra]

That's literally.

[Megyn Kelly]

You can do that.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Listen to what he just said. What he just said. Because I, I still have heard from my cardiologist, you know, stop eating so much red meat. Stop eating so much red meat. And you're, you didn't even mention red meat. You're talking about ultra processed foods, sugar and starchy carbs.

[Megyn Kelly]

Absolutely. There is no relationship with the consumption of red meat. The most extensive studies have been done, looked in their totality, red meat and heart disease, red meat. I'm not saying it's protective, but it's a very nutritious food. I tell my cardiac patients, these are cardiac patients of heart Attacks. I tell them, listen, cut the ultra processed foods follow the best components of Mediterranean diet. Extra virgin olive oil, oily fish, whole fruit and vegetables. But I'm not worried about how many steaks you eat a week. I'll tell you something interesting. Only yesterday I had a consultation with a patient. This is a great story, Megan. I'm glad I'm gonna share this with you for the first time. This is a guy that saw me almost 10 years ago. He comes for a follow up. He. At the age of 62, he was diagnosed with severe blockages in all of his heart arteries. He was recommended to have a coronary artery bypass surgery. Okay. And essentially told that unless he had it, he's probably going to die within a very short space of time, within a few years. Now he came to me and he said, listen, doctor, I don't want to go under the knife. I want to try alternatives. This is my personal preference. I really don't want to have surgery. Luckily, at that point, his symptoms were quite mild. But he had those blockages diagnosed and he said, is there anything else I can do? I've read your work. Can I go on a diet plan? Can I do a lifestyle change? And I gave him that plan. Exactly that I told him, you know, I went through his diet and he was, you know, he was a CEO of a company, if I remember correctly. He was spending eight hours of the day in a car. He was sedentary. He was eating snack foods and sweets all the time. You know, so there's lots of room for improvement. He completely changed his diet. I also found that he was very stressed. So, you know, I advise him to do breath work, meditation. He also was thinking about coming towards retirement early because of his heart issue. And he was wealthy enough to be able to do that. So he contacts me. Only yesterday I had a consultation with him and I presumed when he got back in touch with me that he'd done this for a while but ultimately needed a bypass. And he was going to come to me and say, listen, I had the bypass and I just want to check in with you and see how things are going, et cetera, et cetera, and anything else I can do. Megan. He didn't have the bypass. He now, you know, grows his own vegetables. He cooks. Completely transformed his life. He swims three times a week. He walks his dog five miles a day. He's got no symptoms. And this is nine years after being told essentially he could probably die if he didn't have a bypass operation. That is the power of lifestyle Change what? And by the way, sorry, the other thing to say this was without statin. He got side effects from the statin and stopped his statin. That was the other part of the discussion. He's not taking a statin and hasn't taken a statin for nine years.

[Aseem Malhotra]

How does the calcium score play in?

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, the calcium score is a really good, useful, validated test that is simple to do. A little bit of radiation through CT scan takes five minutes, non invasive. And what it does is it tells you the buildup of what we call coronary calcium. Nothing to do with diet, by the way, nothing to do with blood calcium. Calcium is basically deposited where there is inflammation and where blockages tend to occur. And you can get a score anything from zero, which is completely normal, to well over 1,000, which indicates there is a lot of furrowing of the arteries. But what's useful about the calcium score, Megan, as well is it actually gives you a very accurate prediction. More than cholesterol. Blood blood cholesterol, we know is essentially useless. But you know, more than other factors, it gives you a prediction of your risk of a heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years. So I use it quite often in patients that have come who've been scared by their doctor saying you're going to die because your cholesterol is high unless you take a statin. And we do the calcium score on them, Megan. And of course a lot of cholesterol. You know that the so called LDL is, you know, 80% of it essentially is genetic. Okay. You're born with it. So if they come to me in their middle age, if their LDL cholesterol has been a problem for them, they're going to have significant heart disease. Do the calcium score? Zero.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Wow.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I can reassure them that they don't need to worry about their cholesterol. Essentially.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Peter Attia likes that one too. He likes the calcium score just as sort of a baseline of where you are. So this is also fascinating. This is like it's. I'm so thrilled that our FKJ got in there and is going to be looking into things like this. I mean, already, you know, he's. Yesterday there was an EO on transparency on drug costs. You know, like already he's taking a look at interesting things and he stopped. What was the thing that he stopped yesterday? He stopped something. Oh, it was the testing program that was going on for the oral COVID vaccine. He was like, we're not stopping it forever, but we're pausing that I'm not Sure. That's the best use of our resources. So already he's in there questioning, you might say, questioning. So as somebody who knows him and has worked closely with him, what do you think are gonna be the top items? We'll see over, let's say, the first hundred days or so.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, listen, I think, and everybody can look this up because I was, you know, there's a brilliant executive order from the president, obviously, with, I think with Robert Kennedy Jr's input on the MAHA plan. And Megan, it's absolutely extraordinary. It's so comprehensive. They've covered essentially everything. So they're going to look at all of the existing data. When it comes to nutrition, when it comes to environmental influences on health, they set up a commission. This was what heartened me the most, to look at how different sectors of our lives, whether it's housing, education, income, how that impacts on your health and why that's really important. Megan, this is a conversation that needs to be had in America and across the world. We need to go back to square one to understand what are the building blocks of a healthy society? What does it mean to be healthy? And one of the things that hasn't been discussed enough or ignored, if you like, is that if you look at, I'll give you some figures here in the United States and even in the uk, it's not dissimilar. The gap in life expectancy between the richest and poorest is about 10 years on average. It's huge. Healthy life expectancy difference is about 20 years. When you look at the data, about 80% of that difference can be explained by what we call the social determinants of health or the wider determinants of what means to be healthy. And this basically means having an income that allows you to lead a healthy life, good quality housing. A lot of people are suffering in the United States because they may be certainly through the winter, they don't have adequate heating, access to education. If you are in a job, Megan, that is high demand, low control, low pay, you're on the minimum wage, which I understand in the US certainly pre pandemic was about $7.25, then that can be more damaging to health. The stress associated with being in those sorts of conditions, Megan, can be more damaging to health than being unemployed. Okay, and what's the mechanism? The underlying mechanism is severe chronic stress. So if you have chronic stress over your lifespan, if you're, for example, brought up in a family, if your child that is in a deprived family, or you're a victim of severe psychological abuse or emotional abuse that starts to already have an effect on the disease process that will cut your life short later down the. These are the conversations we need to start having. So that's why what's really fascinating is it's about health for all sectors. So we need to look at the Department of Education, Housing, et cetera, and say those departments, those agencies, if you like, they need to be having health at the forefront. There's something I was reading really interestingly recently is that Thomas Jefferson in 1809, in an address to Republicans in Washington, said the the care of health and human happiness and not its destruction is the first and most important object of good government. That's Thomas Jefferson, right? For me, it's not about big government or small government. It's about good government because ultimately the politicians have the control over laws to ensure that we create conditions so that everybody, Meghan, who's going to disagree with that, that has the best opportunity to lead the best life they can in terms of their health. And this isn't just about people who are not well off during the pandemic. Megan Boris Johnson, our prime minister, I mean, I commented on this. He got hospitalized with COVID And I said it's likely because of his weight. I said it in a compassionate way. He was, after he came out, I didn't say when he was in hospital. And that became a big story because he was, and he admitted it, obese. And this is a guy who's got agency, he's got wealth, right? And this tells us that all of us really are in this because we're affected by this ultra processed food environment. We've been misled about information about cholesterol, about what's a healthy diet. So I think all of this is going to be uncovered under Trump's administration, under the leadership, certainly on health of Robert Kennedy Jr. That's so encouraging.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Just even back when I was in school, it was either, I can't even remember whether it was high school or college right now, but we learned about a study that had been done on two groups of monkeys. And it was that, I guess, guess I think it was monkeys. It might have been a different primate, but it was that there were two different cages of them. And they, like a dominant monkey, like the order works best when there's one dominant. And what they did was they put two dominant in one cage and just the one dominant in the second cage. And the monkeys got exactly the same food, exactly the same lifestyle. Nothing else was different other than the one cage of monkeys was very stressed out and the other wasn't. And then many years later when they died of totally natural causes, they were, they were dissected and they looked at their arteries and the arteries of the monkeys that had been in the stressed out cage were completely, they were clogged. They were, they, they, they were not the picture of health versus the other monkeys, which didn't have anywhere near that level of fatty buildup on the walls of the arteries and so on. And the only difference between the monkeys was cause the stress. So it's like you look at these people who focus so much, some obsess over what they eat and the amount of exercise and, you know, don't have this and don't have that and they totally forget. Being stressed out all the time may be the worst health factor in your life. It must be addressed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Megan, I think you've hit the nail on the head and that's the elephant in the room. I think everything that underpins what's really driving at the root of the problem is the chronic stress. And it comes down to how we live, how we interact with each other as well. We know that of the biggest predictors, I know you're talking to Brian Johnson later, but one of the predictors of longevity and happiness, actually the quality of our relationships, having someone to love and someone that loves you. It sounds very basic, but it's so important. And that mitigates also from the external stresses of life, which are inevitable. So all these conversations need to be had. And of course, it also applies to a child being nurtured by their mother. I think I always tell people, the most important relationship you're going to have in your life, I think, is the one between mother and child. You know, how you're brought up and being allowed to create the conditions so that moms can be there for their children, so they can have a nurturing upbringing rather than being a single mom, for example, working two jobs, trying to make two ends meet in an unjust system where they're not getting paid enough, where big corporations exploit their workers, where you've got a pay differential between the CEO of a company and the production worker of 326 times, which I think thinks a figure now, which is extraordinary. So we have to have a conversation as a society saying, is this actually fair and just? And then you add in Megan on top of that. I'm all for meritocracy when people are earning their money doing the right thing. But a lot of these big corporations have made their money through mass deception. You look at Big pharma, for example, and then they don't pay their taxes and then the government have less money to spend on public services which are being degraded and undermined. So we have to link it all together.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Pfizer made I think $30 million last year. That was his take home pay, which I think is one of the reasons why, I mean, just Pfizer in general and these vaccine companies, we're all very skeptical of them. Now, not all, but many of us are very skeptical because we don't feel like we've been given the truth. There was an extraordinary moment where he showed up at the Trump White House on Black History Month on the celebration. And Trump, who, you know, he is still pro vaccine and he introduced him like yay, CEO Pfizer. And the community wasn't having it. You know, somebody on Twitter pointed out or x, Trump led a populous movement, but he doesn't control the populace. They still have their own feelings on certain issues. And Pfizer and the vaccines are one of them. Look at this. We also have the head of Pfizer here. So I want to thank him. One of the great, great people, One of the great business man.

[Brian Johnson]

Thank you, Albert.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Thank you.

[Brian Johnson]

Thank you very much.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Thank you very much. Trump gets it.

[Brian Johnson]

He knew.

[Aseem Malhotra]

But his most loyal followers were not having it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I think two things to mention there, Meghan. Absolutely. I don't think a single American voted for President Trump the second term because of Operation Warp Speed and the COVID vaccine. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Right. And the second thing is, you know, he's got a great sense of humor and he's a very shrewd man. And if you look at the reaction there, I think that was almost reinforcing what he probably already deep down knows.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yep.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think this COVID vaccine is a mess.

[Aseem Malhotra]

I wanted to round back to a question about the vaccine because Cheryl Ekison, former CBS News journalist, she has a podcast and a show also, and she previewed an interview she's going to be doing on March 2nd with a doctor whose name is Dr. Ryan Cole, who is sounding the alarm on some of the effects of the COVID vaccine. And the following sound bite grabbed my interest. Take a listen here. It was just published today on her podcast feed. What did you start to see when the vaccine rolled out in pathology? Well, that's when I started getting reports.

[Brian Johnson]

From colleagues about clots all over the.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Body and people, people dropping from pulmonary emboli. I have colleagues in the military talking.

[Brian Johnson]

About young, healthy, active soldiers ending up in the hospital with horrendous clots.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Sudden.

[Brian Johnson]

Death from clots, strokes in young patients from clots. And then some of the embalmers started.

[Megyn Kelly]

Reaching out to me and showing what they were seeing, seen on embalming, which.

[Brian Johnson]

Were these long fibrous clots that are.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Obviously rare prior to the rollout of these shots. That's extremely creepy and disturbing, but not. I believe him. I mean, a good friend of mine who's in public health, who's a lefty, was saying, meg, we're hearing a lot about these clots and the embalmers, and she's like a pro. You know, she was definitely pro vaccine and the whole bit. And even she was like, I'm not. I'm not taking any more. I'm hearing more about these. And now you hear this guy say it out. I mean, what. What are we supposed to do if our blood is getting clotty? What, like, what do we do? Drink more water, have an aspirin? I don't get it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, so. So a couple of things, Megan. First of all, I know Ryan very well, and he's a brilliant. He's a pathologist. He's a brilliant scientist. He has high integrity. We've spoken at conferences together. Solid, solid guy. One of the top vascular surgeons in the world is a friend of mine in Ireland called Professor Sheriff Salton. I talked to him about this as well. I mean, these sort of long, fibrous clots have been known before prior, but he also feels that they seem to have increased and he's seen more problems. Certainly he feels that there's been a massive issue with the COVID MRNA vaccine. He feels it should be suspended as well. And he's one of the top vascular surgeons in the world. So there's a lot more doctors speaking out about it. In terms of what people can do, I think, with these particular fibrous clots, Megan, as far as I've seen in terms of data and my own clinical experience, they tend to be stuff that develops relatively early on. So these are the kind of things that you see when people have either had a boost or within a few weeks, maybe a month or so after, but usually within a short time frame. There was a separate study which looked at people that died within, I think, two or three weeks of having the COVID vaccine. And I think they found from autopsy studies, 74% was a figure roughly, they could actually directly say was caused by the COVID vaccine. But, yes, what can we do? Again, it comes back to metabolic health. You know, a lot of these problems are cardiovascular. I talked about insulin resistance earlier, and interestingly, it isn't just about heart disease after smoking. It's the second biggest driver of cancer. So if we have this mechanism in place to educate people and introduce environmental policies, let's put it that way, to create a healthier food environment, a food environment, food that's affordable, then you very quickly will see people optimize their metabolic health and improve it across the United States. And we will see. I think one of the aims of the new administration, and Bobby in particular, is to show demonstrable data of improvement within two years. That is absolutely doable.

[Aseem Malhotra]

That's one of the protocols for preventing dementia, too. It's like, okay, you may have the gene, whatever, but if you minimize the number of toxins in your life, you're giving yourself at least the best chance possible of avoiding it. That's what RFK has been saying about vaccines and autism, that he can't prove a direct causal relationship, but that it may be one of several toxins that overwhelm the system in young children. And like, the more of those that you can remove, not necessarily making a judgment on the vaccines for anybody, but the more toxins you can remove from your child's diet, the better. This is the road we're on. Final, final thoughts on whether we'll get there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thanks, Megan. Yeah, so, I mean, very quickly on that. Yes, you're right about dementia, people. Some people describe that, you know, Alzheimer's is type 3 diabetes, so same process. So 100% this is the way forward. I have a. I think we've got the right people in place. We've got brilliant men like Jay Bhattacharya, who's almost certainly going to be, I think, the next director of the nih. We've got, you know, Marty Makari, we've got Mehmet Oz, we've got Bobby in there. Anything I can do to help to facilitate it. And I think President Trump will listen.

[Aseem Malhotra]

And maybe you, too. Hopefully you will be elevated to one of the top teammates. It would be great to see you there. Dr. Aseem Malhotra, thank you so much for being here here.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you, Ben.

[Aseem Malhotra]

It's one of the privileges of this job to be able to talk to people like that. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. I know it's scary, but we have to talk about it. And then, by the way, for what it's worth, that Dr. Young, sorry, Cole, on Cheryl's podcast did say drinking more water is beneficial on the clotting front. Go to Metabolicreset Co for more from Dr. Aseem coming up Don't Die Movement founder Brian Johnson. Here's one way to clean up your medicine cabinet this season and replace toxin filled conventional products with more natural options. Options Propolis Immune support Throat spray and Propolis plus Vitamin C Liposomal can be must haves in the medicine cabinet as seasonal germs start to hit. Did you know germs can enter through your nasal passages just as easily as through your mouth. Propolis nasal spray is a great non toxic swap for other over the counter drug filled medications. This one's non habit forming. It's natural and it has antimicrobial benefits. Beekeepers Naturals makes clean non toxic products that actually work. They never use harmful ingredients like red dye number three or other synthetic dyes or artificial flavors. Their products are third party tested for all pesticides and they're dedicated to sustainable beekeeping and helping to save the bees. Beekeepers Naturals is offering you an exclusive offer. Go to beekeeper beekeepersnaturals.com megan or enter the code megan to get 20% off your order. That's beekeepersnaturals.com Megan or just enter the code Megan when you check out Beekeepers Naturals products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, CVS and Walgreens.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Aseem Malhotra]

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[Aseem Malhotra]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Brian Johnson]

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[Aseem Malhotra]

So if you're feeling worried about dying from the COVID vaccine or related problems from our first hour, you need to listen to our second hour. Tech millionaire Brian Johnson has been making headlines for years over his extreme anti aging routine where he spends 2 million bucks a year trying to live forever. His motto is don't die. I accept. Great. He goes to bed at 8:30 every night. He eats a vegan diet with dinner at 11 in the morning every day though he's open to red meat, but it's just not for him. He takes over 100 pills or supplements a day and and in his quest he has tried things as odd as swapping blood plasma with his teenage son and he, Brian giving his own plasma to his 70 year old father and injecting a donor's fat into his face. He's also had controversial gene therapy, having to fly out of country to get it. As you can see, his appearance has definitely changed over the years. Look at this. On screen right is the closest to today. And on screen left is how he used to look as recently as, I don't know, six, seven years ago. He is now the subject of a Netflix documentary. You've probably seen it promoted on Netflix many times called Don't Die the Man who Wants to Live Forever where he walks us through his protocol that he calls the blueprint Watch.

[Brian Johnson]

By doing blueprint, one of the key objectives is to achieve the lowest possible biological age. So just like a tree has rings, we all have a signature inside of our body of our age age. After doing blueprint now for two years, I've reversed my biological age, 5.1 years. I have 50 perfect biomarkers, I have 100 biomarkers where I'm less than my chronological age and my speed of aging is 0.69, which means for every 12 months, I age 8 months. In terms of how far this goes, it's open ended, we have no idea. But I want to take my speed of aging to the lowest possible number.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Brian Johnson, welcome to the show.

[Brian Johnson]

Thanks for having me.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Fascinating to meet you. I watched the whole thing. I'm riveted. I love the challenge. I wish it were possible. Let me ask you this, with that, do you actually think it might be that you, you won't die at all or just, you know, you're looking to extend your lifestyle or lifetime beyond what now we consider possible?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I think it's legitimately the, the first time any human in history could say with a straight face, we may be the first generation to not die. I sincerely believe that. It's almost like if you think back to history, like in 1870, if you were alive at that time, you thought that infection came about through bad spirits. But there were new ideas that are kind of crazy where people said there are these microscopic objects that cause infection. They're called bacteria. And when you don't wash your hands between surgeries, when you're delivering babies, it spreads and can lead to death. Now if you're living at the time, you might say that's stupid and crazy. You're telling me things my eyes can't see are going to be the cause of death. But if you're open minded, you might say, huh, if this is real I don't want to be on the other side of that. And so I think the same moment is true for us, is this is legitimately a transformational moment. As a species, we may be the first generation that will die.

[Aseem Malhotra]

You've gotten all sorts of criticism for having money and, you know, going and having gene therapy and Honduras that the average person could never afford. My view is good for you. If you're willing to make yourself a human guinea pig in a way that could save lives down the line or extend lives, why wouldn't we be celebrating that? You're not saying, everybody must do it. You're not saying, I recommend it for all of you. You're saying, this is what I'm and this is why I'm doing it. And I'll share with all of you the results I get, which I think is actually pretty laudable. I mean, has the feedback been mostly good or 50. 50 on controversial and good.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, it's been overwhelmingly positive. And like all things, you find negative voices really get a lot of airtime. And so what they don't talk about is, I think this is what I've built. So I. I quantitatively have the best biomarkers of anybody on planet Earth. I'm quantitatively the healthiest person on Live. Now, I've posted all my data publicly and said, others, you know, show me your data. And so I've really tried to create a new sport out of this. Now, in doing so, I've shared with the entire world everything I do, things that work, things that don't work, but everything is for free. I haven't put this behind a paywall. I haven't asked people to pay me subscriptions. This is. I've made this for free. And I actually. I spend a majority of my time, you know, producing content, writing, helping people learn these three basic things. So it really is an effort to try to help everyone be healthy and well. But the criticism is just very natural. I wrote the other day, there are, like, five stages of understanding. Don't die. You know, and first is like this. Lowell, I wish you'd get hit by a bus. You know, it's like. It's very. It's like. It's so algorithmic. Like, whenever I walk into a new category of people and they haven't seen me before, their responses are just like an algorithm. Like, just absolutely expanded.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yes. All right, so here's a little bit more from the documentary on some of your routines and the sound bite. You're discussing them with your communications director, Kate Tolo.

[Brian Johnson]

It's probably over a hundred different things I do any given day that the body has asked for to be in its ideal state. And that begins with in the morning. I wake up. I turn a specific light on in my bathroom that gives me sun, like, exposure. I take three pills. I do my body temperature with an inner ear measurement, go downstairs, start HRV therapy. So I put a little electrode here in my ear, and it stimulates my autonomic nervous system, trying to make my body more parasynthetic and more chill. I take 54 pills with a concoction that I call the Green Giant. I put a cap on my head for hair growth that has 312 laser diodes. Then I work out for an hour, come in, eat a few pounds of vegetables. I do some high frequency electromagnetic stimulation on my abdomen. I do 12 minutes of near and red light therapy to accelerate healing. I do audio therapy for my hearing regeneration. I have my last meals to eat before 11am 34 more pills to take. There's protocols throughout the day, here and there, and then my nighttime routine.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Oh, my gosh, I'm exhausted just thinking about it. I'm sure you've been asked this question before, but where, where is the time for fun?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. You know, so I guess I really find this to be fun. It is my happy place. I love this endeavor. I love playing this game. I love data, I love science. I love the experimentation. It's so much fun. And I guess, like, it's been kind of interesting because a lot a very common response is, you know, know, he's so busy trying not to die, he's not living. And meanwhile, like, when we think about the things we categorize as living, you know, like going out and drinking with the friends or staying out late or eating pizza or donuts, those are oftentimes the things people imagine I just can't go without. And those things just make me miserable and not happy. I'm. I've never been happier in my entire life. So it's very counterintuitive that, you know, health is happiness. Most people think that debauchery is happiness, but we all know it's not.

[Aseem Malhotra]

That's very interesting. Okay, so let. Can we talk about some of those protocols? Um, some of them are a little bit more mainstream. I mean, I have a red light that I use, and I love it. I think it's really made a nice difference on my skin. I have an infrared sauna which does the same thing for your body. The lights that are in, in the infrared sauna I'm not familiar with the HRV therapy or. No, no. With the light exposure that you do for your eyes first thing in the morning. Is that because you wake up pre sunrise and what does that do?

[Brian Johnson]

That's right, yeah. So it really helps, helps lighten the eyes within 20 to 30 minutes of waking up is really important. It sets your mood, it sets your circadian rhythm, it improves your mood. So if you wake up with the sun, early morning sunlight is fantastic. If you wake up before the sun, that 10,000 lux light really helps set your health regimen. So like you played in that clip, this is not like the idea is not that people do what I do, it's that they can draw out the basics of what I do and then make it a habit into their life. And so really you can achieve very similar health markers as me and do very little of what I actually do.

[Aseem Malhotra]

You can't, can you just turn on a light? Like what about just turning on the bedroom light?

[Brian Johnson]

It doesn't. Yeah, the bedroom light won't work. You need a specific kind of light to have the effects on triggering the circadian rhythm.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Okay, why is your last meal of the day at 11am because so this.

[Brian Johnson]

Is actually so really about my resting heart rate before bed. And so what I discovered over the past four years, years is the single most important thing for my health is my sleep. It's like nothing is even remotely close. And so I have built my entire life around sleep. Which is again is counterintuitive because our current culture is you sleep when you have time, you sleep when you're done with work, you sleep when you're done. And many people actually brag by not getting sleep, they'll say I sleep under my desk. Or like, you know, the person coded for three nights in a row. They're so impressive. So it's almost like this mythology that if you don't sleep, you're somehow have higher status status. And so it's the, the reality is, you know, our body needs sleep and otherwise we just don't function well. We have actually we're impaired, like if you're drunk. And so the biggest predictor, the strongest predictor of your night's sleep is your resting heart rate before you go to bed. And so the way you do this is tonight, before you go to bed, if you have a wearable, just pull up and see what your heart rate is. It may be 60 beats per minute. 65, 50. And then your goal over the next two weeks, I'll give you some tips. Tips is to try to lower your resting heart rate by 10 to 15 beats. And as you do that every beat you drop, your. Your sleep quality is going to increase. So I eat my final meal today at 11am because that gives my body time to digest. So when I go to bed at 8:30, my body's. The food is fully digested, and my body is now able to allocate its resources to say, now we're going to sleep. If I eat later, like five or six, my heart rate's going to climb 10 to 15 beats and my sleep will be reduced by about 30 to 40%.

[Aseem Malhotra]

All right, so this room, this is like reminding me just a couple nights ago, I was, I was dying for some ice cream. My kids had it. It's like, I love ice cream. And it was getting pretty close to bedtime. I'm like, don't do it, Meg. Like, you're so close to going to bed, you're going to spike your glucose. And I did it, Brian. I did it. And you know, it's the worst thing because it does. It raises your glucose, it raises your heart rate. And you know what? I didn't sleep well, but I actually hadn't tied the two things together until. Just listening to you right now.

[Brian Johnson]

Exactly. So what was the actual cream?

[Aseem Malhotra]

It was mint chocolate chip.

[Brian Johnson]

Is that your favorite?

[Aseem Malhotra]

Well, it's one of them, yeah. I do love it.

[Brian Johnson]

It was just. It was just like, available in the freezer.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yeah, exactly. Right, yes. But I, I am the one who made it available. I bought it. It was organic. I'm sure that makes it healthy.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. So organic. Actually, we can talk about that. Organic kind of means nothing in terms of like, we'll go into food in a minute, but yeah. So in your experience, when you woke up the next morning, was it worth eating the actual cream?

[Aseem Malhotra]

No, it wasn't not. But I hadn't even really given a lot of thought to just eating. Even if it's not sugary. Even if it's not.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Aseem Malhotra]

If it's a normal meal, it is going to spike probably your blood sugar to some extent and your, your heart rate's for sure going to go up.

[Brian Johnson]

Exactly. So eating before bed wrecks sleep. And so here's the prescription for everybody is have your final meal of the day at least two hours before bedtime. So if you go to bed at 10, 10, finish eating at 8, and then experiment with going to 7 and then 6 and then 5 and then 4pm Just push it back a little bit every time you're going to feel a little bit hungry, that's fine, it's normal. But as you, you're going to watch as you move your last meal a day back further, your heart rate's going to go down, your sleep's going to go up and you're going to feel amazing. It is worth it. Like when you wake up in the morning and you feel great, it doesn't matter how much pain you're in the night before, it's worth it. So. And also the food you eat. So if you have like a big pizza, you know, at 5:00pm, even though your bedtimes at 10, it still jacks your heart rate, lowers your sleep. So I just went through this meticulous experimentation process, trying hundreds of different combinations and I found that the kinds of foods and when I ate dramatically impacted my heart rate. So Now I'm at 44 beats per minute before bed. And when I can get that, I'm going to have a perfect night's sleep.

[Aseem Malhotra]

So you sleep eight, eight and a half hours.

[Brian Johnson]

That's right. Eight hours and 34 minutes is my, my six month average and what you want. So here's the profile of ideal sleep. So when my head hits a pillow, I'm usually out within two to five minutes. I sleep roughly two hours of REM, two hours of deep. I'm up sometimes like probably 75% of the nights. Now I'm up zero times per night. And yeah, so that's like roughly the profile. If you lay down and it takes you 45, you know, 30 minutes to go to sleep, it's too long, long. And then if you're not getting around two hours each of REM and deep, pick thereabouts, you're getting too little. And then if you're up at night more than 30 minutes, it's something to pay attention to. But I basically have like five habits that people should follow. And if you get these things down and make them life habits, it just changes everything about your conscious existence. You're a better co worker, you're a better professional, you're a better parent, you're a better friend. Like it makes everything in life better.

[Aseem Malhotra]

All right, we have something pulled on your sleep approach. Let's watch. Okay. Yeah. Okay, this is your, it's a, it's a full screen graphic showing your sleep stages. And you can get this on the ring, like I have the aura ring and it'll show you something just like this. That's what you're talking about, like a wearable where it shows your, your rem, your Light. And your deep sleep is, is important. It's not just REM stitch that we're, we're looking at.

[Brian Johnson]

Exactly. So two things about that graph that you're looking at. One is that that there was a recent study published that showed that people with their first REM cycle within 90 minutes were healthy from a perspective of cognitive decline. And people who had their first REM cycle three to four hours after going to sleep had signs of cognitive decline. Alzheimer's. And so if you look at that graph, you see I went to bed roughly 10. That was a late night for me. I posted this because, uh, I was responding to some drama that was going on. So now I was basically saying like the drama, I'm unbothered. So I went to bed at 10 and my first REM cycle, let's see, it's 11:30. Yeah. So basically within 90 minutes of me falling asleep is my first REM, which is right on the point. So everybody, if you're watching this, look at your sleep cycle and look at the demarcation of when you fall asleep and then look at your first REM cycle. You want to be 90 minutes or less. If you're in the three to four hour range, then it's something to pay attention to because you may have some early cognitive decline and you just want to be mindful of that.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Do you do the, you know, 66 degree thing? What do you do about temperature and setting?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, so I have a eight sleep mattress which is a temperature controlled. And so as you go through your various stages of sleep, so as you fall into. So when you go to bed, the reason why going to bed on time is so important is because if your bedtime's at 10:00pm, your body is expecting you to get rest at 10:00pm and if you go to bed at 12 and say, well, I'm just going to make up the two hours in the morning, the body doesn't do that. So your deep sleep happens largely in the first window of time or if you go to sleep. So like between 10 and 12, you can see it from my sleep data. A big portion of my deep sleep happens in that early stage. And if you miss that window, you miss your deep sleep. Now think about deep sleep like a garbage truck rolling through your brain and picking up the trash crash. When you miss the deep sleep, the garbage truck doesn't run its course. And so that's why going to bed on time is so important, being consistent. Because then your body cleans out the garbage and you get this deep restorative Sleep. So again, this is why, like, sleep is the number one life priority. It just fuels all your functions. That's why you want to be on time. You want to be very mindful of your last meal of the day and what you eat. You're resting your heart rate. It just is like, and this is the thing that's funny is I, I never got taught how to sleep. Sleep. Like, how is it that I spend half, you know, a third of my life sleeping and I never got, like, taught in school or even culturally how to sleep.

[Aseem Malhotra]

We, we had a Matthew Walker on the program a couple of years ago, a sleep expert. He wrote this great book about it. And he was saying this is so important that you should, when, when you're considering travel, when you're considering business, whatever it is that you have to do, your social life, you need to build it all around protecting that eight hour period. You, you, if you go to bed at 10, you are going to bed at 10 no matter what. And everything else must move. Unless it's an extreme circumstance, like, okay, I had to fly to Australia for whatever, but only it should be 1% of the time that you're moving those hours around.

[Brian Johnson]

Yes, that is, I agree with that entirely.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Hmm. All right, now here's from the Netflix documentary. Something else that happens in your sleep that you monitor, which is for the guys out there, Sock24 here is an eggplant plant.

[Brian Johnson]

This is the device made by Adam from his social. So what you do is you would normally think this is very awkward. It's not. You just put on the penis and you forget it's there. So you put it on the base of the penis. There you go. And then throughout the night, as you become erect, it measures both the engorgement and the duration. So you have a map the entire night of your erection cycles. Now, mine, I had four total erections for a duration of just over three hours. To put this in context, my nighttime erections are the length of the Titanic, the movie, not the boat. And that is better than an average 18 year old.

[Aseem Malhotra]

All right, so why does that matter?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, so females go through the same erection cycles that men do. It's just measuring the clitoris is more difficult. So just like men, women's clitoris engorges and night over several different sessions and to different degrees of arousal. And then men wake up with a morning erection and women wake up with a morning bean. And so it's both in females and males. And so this was kind of an accident where we started doing this. I was Doing another therapy, this electromagnetic stimulation. We were trying to rebuild muscles in the anus and the bladder because as you age, it becomes harder for you to control those muscles. Especially women who get birth where you're, you have to do Kegel exercises to rebuild those muscles. And so we were doing this therapy and when I started doing it, I just noticed that I was getting erect in, in my sleep all the time. So I raised this question with my scientific team and said, why is this happening? And then we did this deep dive that nighttime erections is actually a really important marker of health. It represents cardiovascular health, physiological health, and psychological health. In fact, it's one of the most important things anybody can know about their health. Like put it on the same level as cholesterol and blood pressure. It's really important.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Wow.

[Brian Johnson]

But no one talked about it. It's really, it's. And you can't like go, you go to the gym and like work out hard to lift weights and be strong and have good cardio, but you can't go to sleep and work hard at having arousal cycles. You can't try to have the boners. It just happens. And so it's a default representation of your health. And so it really is like, you can't fake it. And so, yeah, we talk a lot about sexual health and these, these physiological, physiological functions. So people hear boners, they hear about the sexual talk and they kind of giggle and stuff. But, but men who don't have nighttime erections are five times more likely to die prematurely. It's really a staggering statistic. No, I'm sorry, where can they get.

[Aseem Malhotra]

The little ring that, that you were putting on the eggplant in that demonstration?

[Brian Johnson]

So. Sorry, quick question. 70% more likely to die prematurely. It's a company, Adam Health, out of the uk.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Okay. Wow. I mean, I had no idea. Let's talk about the food. Because I said you eat vegan, but you're not against red meat, which is what I read. Is that true?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I, I'm plant based, excluding collagen, peptides, and you know, food is such a sacred thing for people. I come in peace. I'm not at war. Like, do your thing. Like, all good. We just try to follow the science and evidence of how to use food to slow my body speed of aging as much as possible often.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Okay, so talk to us about. I didn't understand that first qualifier. What you said you eat vegetables without some long word.

[Brian Johnson]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. So what I eat every day is I eat a diet of 2,250 calories. And the premise is that every calorie must fight for its life. It has to basically be a top performing calorie, like something that does something good on my body. And so when you put that filter, many foods don't make it through. Like bread just doesn't make it through as worthy of consumption. And so the foods that do make it through are legumes like lentils and edamames and beans, a lot of vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, I get a ton of vegetables. Extra virgin olive oil. I eat more of that than any other food source. Nuts, berries, seeds, and then I do collagen peptides. So my proteins are from pea and hemp protein, lentils, but I don't eat any meat. You know, this is. And the diet we have is proven. I mean I can say there's more scientific evidence around this diet to slow down somewhat speed of aging and slow disease progression than any other diet in the world. So we're just following data and science on what exactly are the best foods put one in one's body. For longevity, what would you say is.

[Aseem Malhotra]

The most important marker you look for like on a daily basis? What's the one that you're like, okay, that one looks good, I feel good. I mean I know you care about them all, but name like the top two.

[Brian Johnson]

Honestly one, it's resting heart rate before bed. It's like the number one. And the reason why it's so good is because that is determined by when you eat what you eat. It determines how well you sleep and how well you sleep determines whether you're going to exercise and whether you exercise determines on what you're going to eat. And then your resting heart rate is also a representation of your cardiovascular health. You know, are you exercising? Is your heart in a good state? So that one marker really captures whole body health, health. And so, and it's also when you.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Say like, challenge yourself to get it down over the course of two weeks. How do you do that?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. So let's say tonight, Meg, you do this and your heart rate, your resting heart rate, 60 beats per minute. And you say, okay, I'm going to challenge myself to be at 50 in two weeks time. So you can do several things. One is have your final meal of the day begin two hours before bedtime. So mint chocolate chip ice cream. I was like, let's, it's no longer part of the agenda. And then move your final meal back an hour each day. So try your last meal today at 7pm and 6 and 5 and 4 and just push it back a bit more and more and you'll find your right spot. You'll see as you push your final meal today back, your heart rate is going to drop. Number two is to have a wind down routine. So what time is your bedtime?

[Aseem Malhotra]

10:00.

[Brian Johnson]

Okay, so 10 at 9:00pm, so give yourself roughly an hour. I do this selft talk process. So at 9pm, let's say sleep Meg is going to come on duty and there she is and she's going to hold the fort down. Now at 9:01, let's just say ambitious Meg's going to show up and she's going to say, Meg, I have this brand new idea on something we want to do in the show. Like it's going to be a banger. And then sleep Meg says, sorry, we're currently in sleep mode. We're going to write this idea down and then tomorrow we're going to think about this. And then 9:02pm, anxious Meg's going to show up and she's going to say today on the show, show you said this thing, I don't know, it was kind of, you know, wasn't delivered well, came across poorly. And you say, thank you anxious man, for keeping me in check. This is so wonderful. But you need to do this self talk because otherwise you spin loops. So when your head hits a pillow at 10pm you're still trying to reconcile the day's events, like what you're mad about, what you're happy about, how you're sad, like why you're anxious. And then secondarily is when you wake up in the night, one or two or three in the morning, you wake up and you're spinning on all these different thoughts. So you need to have some kind of wind down routine. So that self talk is really important. Then also you can read a book, you can go for a walk. My favorite thing is holding a book, like an actual book in my hand to read for 15 to 20 minutes, talk to a friend. But that last hour of the day is really important to calm your nervous system down and say, we are going to get ready for sleep. That will drive down your heart rate.

[Aseem Malhotra]

I like that a lot. So it's not about exercise, it's about the routine.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, entirely. It's calming your body down to say we are ready for sleep. Yeah. Have to like really get into it. You can't just like show up, put your head the pillow and be like, yep, we're ready to go. The body's just not ready for it. So other things you can do is you can be consistent. So if your bedtime's at 10, try to be in bed every single night at 10pm plus or minus 30 minutes. I logged the best sleep score in human history. Eight months of perfect sleep. I was in bed within one minute every night. And it was just amazing. The body keeps track of time as well as a watch. It knows, like, at 8:29, it would just, like, drop what's called my adenosine, seen my brain, and be like, you're out. And so then the other thing is be mindful of light. So blue lights, like screens and, you know, screens really, and even household lights. So try to have red lights and amber lights, turn off your screens. And if you do these things, your body's really going to support you. Like, your body is amazingly good at sleep. You just need to give it the habits and, like, the protocols where it can really perform at its best.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Oh, this is like. Well, this is interesting because you're not married. You're 47 years old, you're not married. But I will say, like, sleeping with another person in the bed is definitely a challenge, right? Because it's like you not only have to worry about your tossing and turning given the night, but his too. And I always joke with Doug, I'm like, I. I'll. I'll look at him and I'll say sd, which stands for Sleep Divorce. If he wakes me up too many times over the. Over the evening or, you know, speaking of nighttime erections. Anyway, yeah, you know, honestly, like, it's an issue.

[Brian Johnson]

So, like, you may want to talk to Doug about this because there really is some good evidence some people do well sleeping with each other. Like, they actually help each other sleep better. Other people, they just. They're out of sync for whatever reason. And I would say that sometimes the very best things people can do for their marriage is to not sleep in the same room. It they both sleep better, they're in better moods. Like, they just are. They're more conducive to a more positive relationship. So, yeah, I think when you can sleep alone, it's really something you should strongly consider.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Can I ask you about relationships? Because one of the things that stands out in the Netflix special is. Is how close you and your son are. And it's actually really beautiful. It was kind of almost brought me to tears a couple times how much you love him and how close you guys are. And it's a little sad because the rest of your. Your family, your other two kids and your ex Wife. It sounds like they, they want, they kind of disowned you when you left the church, the Mormon Church, by the way. I didn't know that the Mormon Church did that. I thought that was just a Scientology thing. Is that normal in the Mormon Church?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, it's very much like in group, out group stuff. You know, it's like in group you really have the truth and the out group is a threat and, or someone to be saved. It's not a very friendly bridge like you, you always, I mean, I was Mormon for so many years. You always have an agenda when you meet somebody. It's not like a neutral thing. You're, you're trying to convert them in some subtle way. You're always trying to find the edge. It's very much an evangelizing religion where you're always trying to do it. So it's, it's. Yeah, they, they think of me entirely of saved, not saved, going to heaven, not going to heaven framework. And so they just can't trust me because I'm not in the in group and I can't give them that, that same framework. So, yeah, it's really, I mean, it's like probably the most painful experience of my life to be, to be held at arms length of my own children. And I've worked really, really hard to be a good parent and parents know this. Like, you just can never know with your kids. Like there's no guarantee that your effort pays off. And of course kids go through different cycles, but yeah, it's been, it's been really painful. I love them very much. I really want to be in their lives and it's very hard that another thing separates us.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Well, you and Talmadge seem to have a very good relationship. He seems like a great kid. He's now in college or at least went off to college as the Netflix special was being filmed. And but one thing I did wonder, and without giving too much away from the, from the documentary, you do find a way to create socialization in your life and to have friend groups around you. But love is important. You know, that love relationship that, you know, romantic love. I definitely think it's life extending for a number of reasons. And I wondered about that. Like, of course, I'm sure you want it just as a human, but as a life extending mechanism. How do you feel about it?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, the evidence is very good that people in strong relationships live longer. It is just like one of the very best things you can do. So I do work very hard at relationships I work very hard at my personal relationships. And I think that, you know, I grew up in Mormonism. I never even had a girlfriend growing up. I married the first girl that it was kind of, kind of like an arranged marriage. And so I just never really learned how to build relationships. And so I'm getting a lot better now. I'm very excited about where I'm at in life, and I think I figured out kind of some basics. So again, like, I guess I'm maybe late to the party. I'm 47. I'm just learning the basics of how to sleep, how to build relationships in life, and, and maybe I'm unique, but, yeah, I just feel like I'm. I'm finally coming around to learning some of these basic things of life.

[Aseem Malhotra]

You talk in the documentary about how you'll disclose to these women, there's a lot of things you're not going to like about my lifestyle. And then you've been proven right a few times with women. Like, you're a lot. But I actually think the, the odds are high that you will meet a woman who's very into this and who will live this life with you in her hyperbaric chamber right next to yours. I think you just have to, you know, put it out there more and, and meet more women. But I, I hope you do, because I think that's a missing piece of your, of your formula. Speaking of the hyperbaric chamber. Chamber, we've got video of you in it. What's happening here? Okay, you're. We. It's video. It looks like you're in some sort of a, like a carnival ride. And the apparatus on your face for the listening audience looks very much like what, you know, people who are older and they can't sleep well overnight. Where they put that thing on their face. It looks like an oxygen mask with all these tub coming out of it. What's happening here?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, so this is called hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And so what you do is the pressurization inside that chamber gets to 2 atmospheres, which is roughly the same kind of pressure you'd have about 30 meters below seawater, the ocean level. And so it's very, very pressurized. And then in that mask, I'm breathing in 100% oxygen. And so the therapy is you hyper oxygenate the entire body. So when you breathe oxygen, you get oxygen to your various organs and whatnot, but not to a ultra saturation. And so when you're in that chamber and it's very. There's a lot of pressure plus you're getting 100% oxygen versus 20% in our atmosphere. You're getting oxygen very deeply infused throughout the entire body. And that has all kinds of rejuvenation effects. So this is the same process we go through where we try to find therapies that have great, have gold standard scientific evidence, evidence that have rejuvenation properties in the body. Like I'm trying to make my entire body age 18. And so we found hyperbaric oxygen therapy and the evidence was good for like acute brain injury, a traumatic brain injury. It was good for certain conditions, but we didn't really see anyone doing it for longevity with a whole bunch of measurements. So I measured my body with about 50 different biomarkers. I did 60 sessions in the chamber and then we measured again. Our final result is coming in today. But it has been one of the most efficacious therapies we've ever, ever done. It boost it. It dramatically improved my brain health, improved my inflammation, improved joint health, it increased my Cardiovascular ability, my VO2 max. It reduced senescent cells, it whole body skin rejuvenation. Like it has been one of the most successful therapies we've ever done. And like we do with everything else, we just share 90 minutes per session.

[Aseem Malhotra]

And is it, I mean, I think of the hyperbaric chamber. Isn't that where they put you when you, you've had a scuba accident like that, you have to go in the hyperbaric chamber. So it seems like sort of a remedial measure. Is there any downside to you in using that 90 minutes a day and coming out of it and trying to live your life?

[Brian Johnson]

No. So that's the thing is, that's why I posted this video. I was playing around like I always do, is I said that I moved my office into my hyperbaric chamber. And so I basically, I'm just sharing that when you're trying to have the best biomarkers of anybody on planet earth, you need to basically take very detailed attention to everything you do on a daily basis. But yet I also run four different companies. And so I have to build these therapies into my lifestyle. So I was showing that I have my computer in there and I work. So now it's just part of my daily lifestyle. And I guess it's fun because we can surface these therapies that have so much potential to help people. Now this is like a big system. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy is very hard to get access to. But we're trying to push this forward for everybody. Right. Because this is like, the whole thing is we're trying to make people aware that you can, in fact, do meaningful things to change your health and wellness.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yeah. I mean, maybe there'll be some man of the people version where it's just like you, you take in oxygen an hour a day while you're sitting at your desk, and somehow that has a better effect on you. This is how it starts with the big thing, and then it whittles down to the common man and woman like me, and we, we try some other version of it. So, again, I appreciate the fact that you're willing to put yourself through this stuff. Stand by. We're gonna break. And we'll come back more with Brian Johnson's routines and recommendations. Take them for what they're worth. I think it's actually kind of exciting. The IRS is the largest collection agency in the world, and with April 15th fast approaching, it's more aggressive than ever. If you owe back taxes or have unfiled returns, waiting is not an option. April 15 could mark another year that has passed you by when it comes to the taxes. So the smart move is to get ahead of it now. But listen, never contact the IRS alone. Instead, you could let the experts at Tax Network USA handle this for you. Why? Well, not all tax resolution companies are the same. Tax Network USA has a preferred direct line to the irs, so they know exactly which agents to deal with and which to avoid with proven strategies to settle tax problems in your favor. Whether you owe 10 grand or 10 million, Tax Network USA's attorneys and negotiators have already resolved over 1 billion in tax debt. Speak with one of their strategies today for free. And don't let the IRS control your future. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan that's tnusa.com Megan April 15th is just around the corner. Act now before the IRS acts first.

[Brian Johnson]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Must be 21 years older.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Terms and conditions apply. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM it's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

[Megyn Kelly]

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Free offer details apply. All right, Brian, forgive me for asking an impertinent question, but the dramatic change in your looks is really something like when you see how you used to look when you were younger versus how you look now. And I hope this isn't insulting, but it's, there's been a little bit of a feminization. Do you think that's fair to say, like, you look slightly more feminine to me now. What's that about? And is that intentional or is that a result of supplements? What's going on there?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, nothing intentional. I mean, the thing is what we tried to do is I did something, something unique where four years ago we said, okay, if this idea is correct, that we are the first generation that won't die, how would you even go about doing it? It's kind of like Lewis and Clark or going to the moon or, or sailing west to see if the world is round or not. So we kind of said, how do you do this? And so I hired a team of 30 doctors and we went about, we measured the biological age of every organ in my body. Now intuitively, again, I may be, I'm 43 years old at the time, but if you look at an 80 year old and a 2 year old year old, you can compare those two individuals and say one is older than the other. They also have different life expectancies. And then as you get more narrow, is there a difference between a 10 year old and a 70 year old and a 20 year old and a, and a 60 year old, as you can say, yes. And so if you get more granular, you can arrive at the idea that you can measure biological age in all your organs. So I did that and then we said, what is the best science to actually now Slow down my speed of aging and reverse aging damage. And we've just followed the data and the science. And so when you see my appearance evolve, it's just we're following data and science. We do nothing about appearance like that is proactive. We just say, how can I drive this process of aging to the slowest possible rate and reverse aging damage? So it really is just like a real time live science experiment.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Hmm. Wow. Okay. So you mentioned in the or we mentioned in the setup to this, that part of the routine is supplements. A lot of em from the sound of 53 or 54 pills in the morning. And then another dosage comes. What are. I mean, just give us a feel for what the most important ones are in your routine.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, so the most important ones for anybody are the ones you're deficient in. So the key thing which I advocate more than anything is measurement. It's always helpful to do measurement. And a lot of people don't want to do positive things for themselves. They want to do a cold plunge or a sauna, but they don't measure. They don't know where their baseline is. They don't know what was supposed to be the outcome, which makes sense. Measurement is hard and it's expensive. Expensive. But really the most valuable thing you can do is measure. So the most basic thing is resting heart rate. Great. Exactly. So for free, tonight before bed, resting heart rate, you can do a blood test. Exactly. So my company, Blueprint, makes all these things available to people, like basic blood measurement. There's also a biological age test where you can see your speed of aging. How fast is your clock at aging? So if you're one, for example, you're aging on 12 months. For every 12 months at pass passes, my speed of aging is 0.57, which means my birthday is every 21 months. And so knowing this data is really important. So you can measure like my, a coworker of mine measured theirs, and they're 1.16. So they're aging faster than time is. And so if you, once you get that data, you can then say, what am I doing right now that is causing me to age faster? Is it, is it poor sleep? Is it not exercise? Is it a prong diet? And so you can start then making lifestyle changes because you want to drive that number down. So again, it's all driven by data and methods, measurement. And you can really. These things work so well. And it's very encouraging. You, you do something positive, you get a good night's sleep, or you lower your, your Speed of aging and it's very encouraging.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yeah, your number has gone down even since the Netflix special.

[Brian Johnson]

It was.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Now it's even lower.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, it's one of the. So there's 50,000 people in the world measuring their speed of aging. It's one of the lowest in the entire world, I think the second lowest in the entire world.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Well, I mean you're working very hard for it, so I would expect it to be pretty darn good. Is there anything, is there any sort of magic supplement we should about like of all the ones, once you've gotten yourself not deficient, this is your favorite.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. So I, I have the Blueprint stack. So I published this whole thing and I made everything for free. And then this project went viral and people were like, cool, I'm in. I want to do it. But then it became too complex. You have to like buy these supplements and you have to put them out, do them, remember to restock. And so they said just make it easy. So I dumb that. So Blueprint is my company. We've made everything easy. This is not a great grift. This is me trying to be responsive. Responsive to people's wishes. At the same time, I make everything known for free. So if you don't want to buy it for me, go do it on your own. That's totally cool. Either way, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to help you.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Yeah, you're already rich. You don't need to make money off of this. You owned what it sounds like Venmo bought you or you bought venue Venmo and then sold it for $800 million. So you're good.

[Brian Johnson]

Exactly. And honestly this food business sucks. Like it is such a pain in the ass gas. I hate it. Like there's so many other things I want to be doing with my time. But also there's no one in the world who is actually solving this basic problem of how do you get non toxic, high quality food? I we I learned, I mean everything I put into my body we would test at a lab and I have come to find out very sadly that food is guilty until proven innocent. It is just the food supply globally is toxic. So now we're in the next 90 days we're going to try to map the US food Ohm. We're going to try to measure the toxin levels of the A, the 80% of foods that we eat on a daily basis and we're going to then be able to say like the average American consumes blank amount of mercury per Day and blank amount of lead. No one has done that. And so yeah, I mean, but where.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Do you get your food from? Is it all like greenhouse based or where do you get your food?

[Brian Johnson]

We source food from all over the world. Again, this is what blueprint does. So we source from people all over the world who have the right farming practices and do the right purity testing. You, I've learned you, I can't go to any grocery store, anywhere, even a, a farmer's market and expect it to be clean because they don't control their water supply, they don't control the soil, they don't, they don't control these things. So it's just like a toxin stew we live in. And so, yeah, it's a really, really big problem. And I think people feel powerless. So we're going to try to bring some numerical baselines, like this is what's happening in the world. And so, but we really, I think if you say why is, why are we struggling so hard as a species being. Well, I mean our habits are also terrible, but also our food supply is very toxic. So we've, I think we, we will have this map in the next few months and have a good baseline for the entire world.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Long live Maha and the, the revolution coming. I mean, at least now we're starting to pay some attention to this. You, you've got to be a fan of rfkj. No.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, he's a friend. And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm eager to help out in any way I can. It really is. I think it'd be a really cool goal for America to have the, the best life expectancy of any country in the world. I think it'd be a, I mean, nobody loses when we're in good health. Like everybody wins. And so I think it's like something we can rally upon. It's not like, sure we're going to fight about this, not always, but you know, if we're actually sleeping well and feeling well, we may fight a little less.

[Aseem Malhotra]

What about gene therapy? Because you went down to Honduras, you had them stick a needle in your back belly trying to alter your, your genes. I guess they were kind of adding something that was gene adjacent. But we spent the first hour talking about some of the downsides of the MRNA vaccine, which is, which is gene therapy. I mean, I think MRNA is gene therapy. So people are like, oh God, oh no. But you tried it. You do discontinue things that don't work for you. You're open about like, don't this one? No. That one? No. Know where do you stand on the gene therapy you got and is that something you would do again?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, we did extensive analysis on this. I had a former FDA official on my team, we had several biotech entrepreneurs, a few scientists, and we scrubbed this thoroughly, not for its efficacy but for its safety. We were really trying to assess is it safe now in all things biotech you can only be so certain. So like we just don't know what we don't know. But to our best knowledge it is, is safe. And you're right, it's not something where it actually changed my DNA. It just changed the expression of a protein F statin. So I just have higher levels. So it's really a baby step on the path to gene therapy. But the I thought it was safe to experiment with. I thought it was a cool experimentation. So far the results, I mean I think they've increased. I think it increased my, my muscle mass and also lowered my speed of aging. But I think the results are early. But I generally, if we want to punch past, past the 120 ceiling we have, gene therapy is going to play a very important role. And so I am very bullish on our ability to do it. A lot of people, they say in this moment like you're crazy. There's no way the first generation not die. How could you even surmise that with AI we're bringing online the equivalent of billions of PhD level human equivalents that are investigating all the mechanisms of aging. It's an insane degree of intelligence we're bringing online to solve these things. And if you could simply say the more people working on the problem, the more likely we're solving a solution. That's why I think like this moment really is like, it's the biggest ideological change in our history from a moment where death is inevitable to where we just don't know how long and how well we can live. And so that's what this don't die movement is about is it, is remapping the biggest, I mean like solving death would be the biggest accomplishment in human history. And that's I think one, the big one. And I think it's, it's actually insight.

[Aseem Malhotra]

It's, it's funny because most people say as soon as I hear Honduras, I think you're crazy. Who's, who'd get on a plane and let somebody in Honduras stick a needle in their belly? But it's also very brave because you actually did put in the research and the time and you were very careful about what? Which one you were going to take a risk on. And that was how, how long ago now?

[Brian Johnson]

A year and a half ago. Yeah, this is the people oftentimes will say, you know, you're really doing high risk stuff. And I'll point out that they too conducted an experiment at lunch when they ate the fast food meal. That's an experiment. You know, when they were having fast food, I was having vegetables and extra virgin olive oil and I was taking my nutrients. So they too are doing experimentation with bad sleep, poor food, toxic food. They just don't realize they're actually probably higher risk than I am.

[Aseem Malhotra]

It's so true. All right, well, you should spend a minute on exercise. You do one hour a day, that's it. I would, I would have thought it would have been like three hours a day.

[Brian Johnson]

Nope, one hour a day. It's like everything in health and wellness is just the perfect amount. So a lot of people have this intuition to think that if one is good, two must be better. It's not like you want to find the exact number. And this is with, with sleep. So if you look at the actual data on all cause mortality around sleep, it's seven hours. Now you can be on the, on the like seven and a half. If you're highly active, it can be seven and a half, eight. But it's like right there. If you sleep nine or ten, ten, it actually increases your risk of all cause mortality. So more sleep is not better. You want to be just in the right amount. And that's true with exercise. So there gets to be a point where too much. And so even if you're just starting off, you know, have your final meal of the day, you know, a couple hours before bed, get your resting heart rate down, sleep really well, and even if you work out for 20 minutes, great, like a big win. The biggest risk here is someone feels overwhelmed. You don't need to do a lot of stuff. Prioritize sleep, get 20 minutes of exercise a day and you're doing really well. So just master the basics, get those two things right and if you do those things right, you'll eat better. But really the key is to not feel overwhelmed. These very small things can make a huge difference in how you feel.

[Aseem Malhotra]

How do you break down your cardio versus weight training?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I do. So my, the way we measure cardiovascular fitness is something called V2 max max and it measures how well the body utilizes oxygen. And so my VO2 max is 64, which is in the top 1% of elite 18 year olds. So my body functions like an 18 year old in this capacity. And so to train that I do what's called 4x4. So I'll be on the elliptical machine. You can run, do elliptical, anything you want, where you basically exert yourself. It's like 90% plus plus. And then you rest for four minutes. You do that for like four minutes, then you rest for four minutes and then you do it again. And so 4x4 training, high, high, exertion low, high, low. And then also I do zone 2 which is like you want to be like roughly where you want to exercise, where you can have a conversation with somebody and not feel out of breath. So every day I do a little bit of that.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Brian, you're fascinating. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I loved the documentary. I appreciate you participating in that. I learned a lot and I think people can take, take from this whatever they find valuable. I mean very few people are going to go the full Brian, but it's there for you. If you have a lot of money, then you, even if you have no money, can take bits and pieces of this. Certainly the sleep should be something we can all try to tackle. Brian, thank you. Thank you so much for all the information.

[Brian Johnson]

Thank you for having me. And how do you, are you going to do a few of these things?

[Aseem Malhotra]

100% tonight? I, and I'll get back to you, I'll let you know how it works.

[Brian Johnson]

I'll get your name, please. Yeah, do it. I'd love to be your accountability partner.

[Aseem Malhotra]

Okay. Thank you. All right. All the best to you. Fascinating, right? Like why not why, why is it, why aren't more people doing this? That's a real question. In modern day America, we have so many AI tools and other great tech things available to us. And yeah, I, to me a lot of this makes sense. It's extreme, but it makes sense. Anyway, love to hear your thoughts. Megan Kelly dot com. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.

[Brian Johnson]

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[Brian Johnson]

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[Aseem Malhotra]

Terms and conditions apply.