The Case for Abolishing the Department of Education, Truth About Trump's Tariff Plan: AM Update 4/21

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show: Detailed Summary of "The Case for Abolishing the Department of Education, Truth About Trump's Tariff Plan: AM Update 4/21"

Release Date: April 21, 2025

In this thought-provoking episode of The Megyn Kelly Show, host Megyn Kelly engages in in-depth discussions on two pivotal topics shaping the American socio-political landscape: the potential abolition of the Department of Education and the intricate details of President Donald Trump's tariff strategy. Through expert insights and robust debates, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of these critical issues.

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1. The Case for Abolishing the Department of Education

President Trump's Proposal and Executive Order

The episode opens with Megyn Kelly highlighting President Trump's bold initiative to dismantle the Department of Education (DOE). Citing recent statements from Trump, Kelly notes his intention to "pull the plug" on the DOE, aiming to return educational control to state and local authorities. At [02:14], Trump asserts, "In a few moments, I will sign an executive order to begin eliminating the federal Department of Education once and for all," emphasizing a shift towards state-managed education.

Corey DeAngelis Advocates for DOE Closure

Megyn Kelly introduces Corey DeAngelis, executive director of the Educational Freedom Institute, who fervently supports the abolition of the DOE. DeAngelis argues that despite a 108% increase in per-student spending since 1980, educational outcomes have not mirrored this investment. At [03:54], he states, "Have the outcomes gotten 108% better? No, they obviously haven't." DeAngelis contends that the DOE has failed to bridge achievement gaps or enhance student performance, asserting, "It's time to return education back to the states where it belongs."

Criticism from Education Unions and Counterarguments

The National Education Association (NEA), one of the largest education unions in the U.S., voices strong opposition to the proposed DOE closure. At [05:14], the NEA criticizes the move, stating, "The DOE is a critical champion in enforcing federal statutes prohibiting discrimination and ensuring every student has access to an education that will help them reach their full potential." They warn that dismantling the DOE would defund essential programs for vulnerable students, leading to widespread fear and instability among families and communities.

Randy Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, echoes these concerns, suggesting that increased state control might divert funds towards private school voucher programs at the expense of public education. In response, DeAngelis challenges Weingarten's motivations, implying that union leaders are more concerned about maintaining their influence in Washington than genuinely supporting students. At [06:29], DeAngelis remarks, "She sees that she can lobby one institution, the department, better than lobbying a lot of different institutions."

Impact on Vulnerable Students and Special Education

DeAngelis further emphasizes that the DOE's bureaucratic red tape has hindered progress for students with special needs. At [05:14], he notes, "Students with special needs are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to education in our country," arguing that decentralized control would allow for more tailored and effective programs under departments better suited to handle specific needs, such as the Small Business Administration for student loans and the Department of Health and Human Services for pre-K programs.

Political Feasibility and Future Prospects

Despite the strong arguments for abolishing the DOE, Megyn Kelly acknowledges the significant legislative hurdles ahead. The process would require an act of Congress, facing challenges such as a slim Republican majority in the Senate and the necessity of overcoming the filibuster with a 60-vote threshold. DeAngelis remains optimistic, suggesting that Republicans may incrementally erode the DOE's capabilities through budgetary constraints and executive actions, citing Trump's ongoing efforts to "facilitate the closure of the Department of Education" ([07:26]).

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2. Truth About Trump's Tariff Plan

Historical Context of Trump's Tariff Strategy

Transitioning from education reform, the episode delves into President Trump's approach to tariffs and international trade. Megyn Kelly references Trump's previous actions, including his 1988 tariff plan aimed at addressing unfair global trade practices. Trump critiqued countries like Japan for trade imbalances, highlighting the challenges of engaging with nations that exploit free trade agreements to their advantage.

At [09:54], Trump passionately states, "They come over here, they sell their cars, their VCRs, they knock the hell out of our companies." This historical perspective sets the stage for understanding the current administration's tariff policies.

Steve Eisman’s Analysis of the US’s Negotiating Position

Invited to provide expert insight, Steve Eisman, a former senior portfolio manager at Neuberger Berman, assesses the viability of Trump's tariff strategy. At [11:36], Eisman explains, "the United States is in the best negotiating position by far," underscoring the relatively low reliance of the U.S. economy on exports compared to other developed nations. He contrasts the U.S. export dependency (11% of GDP) with countries like China (30%) and Germany (over 40%), arguing that the U.S. stands to suffer the least in a trade conflict.

Eisman warns, however, that a trade war would have detrimental effects globally, affecting economies deeply intertwined with U.S. trade. Despite this, he maintains that America's insular economy provides a buffer against the full brunt of potential economic downturns resulting from trade disputes.

Economic Implications and Impact on Workers

Megyn Kelly brings forth the narrative of Vice President J.D. Vance, whose memoir "Hillbilly Elegy" highlighted the adverse effects of globalization and free trade on American communities. Steve Eisman expands on this, critiquing the Clinton-era North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) for its role in deindustrializing regions like the Midwest and the South. At [14:07], Eisman remarks, "So if you travel the country in the south, the Midwest... communities got obliterated," emphasizing the socio-economic fallout from previous trade policies.

Eisman credits Trump’s tariff strategy as a corrective measure aimed at revitalizing these devastated communities by protecting domestic industries and jobs. He points out that while GDP growth under Clinton was significant, it masked the decline of industrial hubs, leaving workers without support or opportunities to adapt.

Political Backlash and Economic Dogma

The podcast addresses the resistance Trump faces, rooted in entrenched economic beliefs favoring free trade. At [15:54], Eisman states, "it's something that is so ingrained in your head you don't even realize anymore that it's there," highlighting the difficulty in shifting public and political opinion away from long-established free trade ideologies. He acknowledges the backlash from economists and policymakers who view tariffs and trade wars as detrimental but argues that Trump's stance is necessary to rectify systemic inequities.

Reassurance on Financial Stability

As concerns about the potential recession loom, Steve Eisman offers reassurance about the resilience of the U.S. financial system. At [17:06], he confidently asserts, "the US Financial system is quite safe," countering fears of another financial crisis akin to 2008. Eisman emphasizes that while a trade war might trigger a global recession, the robustness of the U.S. economy would likely prevent it from spiraling into a full-scale recession.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Megyn Kelly adeptly navigates complex and contentious issues surrounding education reform and international trade. By providing a platform for both proponents and critics, the show fosters a nuanced dialogue that underscores the multifaceted implications of President Trump's policies. Corey DeAngelis and Steve Eisman offer compelling arguments advocating for systemic changes, while voices from education unions caution against the potential repercussions of dismantling federal oversight. This comprehensive discussion equips listeners with a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities inherent in reshaping American education and trade policies.

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Notable Quotes:

• Corey DeAngelis [03:54]: "Have the outcomes gotten 108% better? No, they obviously haven't."

• Donald Trump [02:59]: "I want her to put herself out of a job."

• Corey DeAngelis [06:29]: "She feels like she can wield more influence in Washington, D.C. than in individual states."

• Steve Eisman [11:36]: "the United States is in the best negotiating position by far."

• Steve Eisman [14:07]: "we come across communities where people didn't just lose their jobs, their communities got obliterated."

• Steve Eisman [17:06]: "the US Financial system is quite safe."

This episode of The Megyn Kelly Show delivers a rich and engaging exploration of critical policy debates, offering listeners valuable insights into the future trajectory of American education and economic strategies under President Trump's administration.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

Good morning, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. It's Monday, April 21, 2025, and this is your AM update.

[Corey DeAngelis]

Since 1980, we have data on this first, student spending has increased by about 108% after adjusting for inflation. Have the outcomes gotten 108% better? No, they obviously haven't.

[Megyn Kelly]

President Trump says it's time to pull the plug on the Department of Education. What does the future of American school look like? If Washington isn't calling the shots, the.

[Steve Eisman]

US Is in the best negotiating position by far.

[Megyn Kelly]

Critics call it chaos, supporters call it correction. Inside Trump's high stakes tariff strategy and why the US Might just hold all the cards. Coming up in just a moment on this special Easter Monday edition of AM Update. Tax day may have passed, but for millions of Americans, the real trouble is is just the beginning. If you miss the April 15 deadline or still owe back taxes, the IRS is ramping up enforcement. And every day you wait might make things worse. With over 5,000 new tax liens filed daily and tools like property seizures, bank levies and wage garnishments, you don't want to mess around. Okay, the good news is there's still time for Tax Network USA to help self employed or a business owner. Even if your books are a mess, they've got it covered. Tax Network USA specializes in cleaning up financial chaos and getting you back on track fast. Even after the deadline, it's not too late to regain control. Your consultation is completely free and acting now could stop penalties, threatening letters and surprise levies before they escalate. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan, you may have missed April 15, but you haven't run out of options. Let Tax Network USA help before the IRS makes the next move.

[Steve Eisman]

And I'm.

[Donald Trump]

Going to close the Department of Education and move education back to the states. I will shut down the federal Department of Education and we will move everything back to the states. One other thing I'll be doing very early in the administration is closing up the Department of education in Washington, D.C.

[Megyn Kelly]

After years of pandemic era remote learning, exposing widespread educational failures, FBI scrutiny of outspoken parents at school board meetings, and growing concerns over the politicization of classroom content on race and gender. Then GOP candidate Donald Trump surged to victory in 2024, campaigning on a promise to overhaul the public education system and restore parental rights. In March, President Trump taking the most significant step yet toward fulfilling that promise.

[Donald Trump]

In a few moments, I will sign an executive order to begin eliminating the federal Department of Education once and for all. I told Linda, linda, I hope you do a great job and put yourself out of a job. I want her to put herself out of a job.

[Megyn Kelly]

The order directing Secretary of Education Linda McMahon to, quote, take all necessary steps to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education and return authority over education to the states and local communities. Critics decrying the move, accusing the administration of dismantling public education and abandoning federal support for vulnerable students.

[Donald Trump]

They're going to go after food programs for poor kids. They're going to take lunch, breakfast and lunch away from poor kids.

[Steve Eisman]

Folks who might have a child with a disability are wondering, is this going to impact my family? Is this going to make things even harder?

[Megyn Kelly]

You can lie to parents about a lot of things if you start taking away opportunities from their children.

[Steve Eisman]

You better watch out.

[Megyn Kelly]

We spoke with school choice advocate and executive director of the Educational freedom Institute, Corey DeAngelis, who says the Department of Education has failed in its mission and it is beyond time to shut it down.

[Corey DeAngelis]

It was to get rid of the Department of education altogether. Since 1980, we have data on this, per student spending has increased by about 108% after adjusting for inflation. Have the outcomes gotten 108% better? No, they obviously haven't. It was created with the explicit purpose of closing achievement gaps and improving student outcomes. It hasn't done either of those things. The proof is in the pudding. We have 45 years of data now and it's time to return education back to the states where it belongs.

[Megyn Kelly]

The DOE operates on an $82 billion budget, funding Pell grants, Title 1A for low income schools, special ed under the Individuals with Disabilities Education act, title enforcement and federal student loans. The National Education association, one of the country's largest unions, criticizing the administration's decision to shutter the department in a statement, quote, the DOE is a critical champion in enforcing federal statutes prohibiting discrimination and ensuring every student has access to an education that will help them reach their full potential. Dismantling it means defunding programs that feed, educate and protect our most vulnerable and underserved students and leaving many families fearful and anxious and communities reeling. Mr. DeAngelis says that argument doesn't hold up, saying the department is failing the very students it's supposed to protect.

[Corey DeAngelis]

Students with special needs are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to education in our country, and it's because they're stuck in a one size fits all system. And the Department of Education, even though they have, you know, they, they, they include red tape and regulations around These ideas doesn't mean that it's actually producing better outcomes for those kids. And then any useful programs like special needs initiatives would move under other departments. Student loans have been announced to be moved under the Small Business Administration. Department of justice would handle civil rights issues. Head Start, if you like the pre K programs. Those move under the Department of Health and Human Services as well.

[Megyn Kelly]

President Trump's executive orders redirect federal money to the states where local officials will have greater control over how it's spent. The president of the American Federation of Teachers, Randy Weingarten, another huge union claiming states will funnel the money into private school voucher programs at the expense of public education. They're saying, oh, don't worry, let's block, grant it so we'll give it to a state education department.

[Donald Trump]

So, and then let the state education.

[Megyn Kelly]

Department decide what to do.

[Donald Trump]

So we know, for example, what Texas would do, right?

[Steve Eisman]

They'll use it for vouchers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mr. DeAngelis responding to that argument.

[Corey DeAngelis]

And you have people like Randy Weingarten crying about this. And it's not because she's concerned about the kids. She's concerned about her own gravy train coming to an end. She sees that she can lobby one institution, the department, better than lobbying a lot of different institutions. And so she feels like she can wield more influence in Washington, D.C. than in individual states. When people can vote with their feet. The schools improve in response to competition. We've seen this time and time again, most recently in Florida. They went all in on school choice. And a couple decades ago, before they had school choice, they were at the bottom of the pack on the nation's report card. Now you fast forward to today. Florida is number one on education, according to U.S. news & World Report. And it's not a money issue. Money doesn't solve problems, especially when the system is broken. Florida spends 27% less than the national average per student in the public schools. And, and they're knocking it out of the park because they have competition.

[Megyn Kelly]

Fully abolishing the DOE would require an act of Congress, an uphill battle with a slim Republican majority in the Senate and a 60 vote threshold to overcome the filibuster. But Mr. DeAngelis says Democrats stance on education could cost them seats and predicts Republicans will keep chipping away.

[Corey DeAngelis]

They unanimously voted against this protecting girls sports, which is an 8020 issue. You got to think they're going to lose some, some seats over this issue in the midterms. Maybe after 2026. Trump and the Republicans will have a better chance at fully eradicating the department. But what I am hopeful about is you only need 51 votes in the budget reconciliation process. So there are things Republicans can do to give this department death by a thousand cuts, including reducing or changing mandatory spending patterns. And Trump's already started this process with his executive order. And Linda has fired at the department. They oh, we're halfway there. If we could only get 100% of the way there. But it does require an act of Congress because it was created by an act of Congress.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Donald Trump]

I'd make our allies forgetting about the enemies, the enemies you can't talk to so easily. I'd make our allies pay their fair share. We're a debtor nation. Something's going to happen over the next number of years with this country because you can't keep going on losing 200 billion. And yet we let Japan come in and dump everything right into our markets and everything. It's not free trade. If you ever go to Japan right now and try to sell something, forget about it, Oprah. Just forget about it. It's almost impossible. They don't have laws against it. They just make it impossible. They come over here, they sell their cars, their VCRs, they knock the hell out of our companies. And hey, I have tremendous respect for the Japanese people. I mean, you can respect somebody that's beating the hell out of you, but they are beating the hell out of this country.

[Megyn Kelly]

That was back in 1988 under the second Trump administration. The White House seeking to rebalance global trade practices with President Trump's Liberation Day tariff plan. Markets seesawed on the news, plunging at the announcement, then soaring to record highs after the White house declared a 90 day renegotiation window. Supporters calling it a high stakes 4D chess move. Critics saying President Trump is risking a global trade war and gambling with the economy. The end of another turbulent and volatile.

[Steve Eisman]

Day in the financial markets.

[Donald Trump]

The sole cause of that volatility.

[Steve Eisman]

Donald J. Trump Markets are tumbling as.

[Megyn Kelly]

Investors are really digesting worse than expected tariffs.

[Corey DeAngelis]

You know, this is a bigger shock to the economy than any trade policy in any country's history.

[Donald Trump]

And if this economy does go into recession, which is looking more and more likely, maybe that will force the president to course correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

We spoke with Steve Eisman, former senior portfolio manager at Neuberger Berman, who correctly predicted the 2008 financial collapse. Mr. Eisman says the US is well poised to succeed in trade negotiations.

[Steve Eisman]

I think people need to realize that in terms of the negotiation position that the United States has versus other countries in terms of changing the terms of trade, the US Is in the best negotiating position by far. Here's where facts and details matter. The percentage of US GDP that comes from exports is only 11%. That's about the lowest percentage in the world of any significant country. If we go country by country, China officially is at 20%. That's if you Google it. But that's really not accurate because China ships so much to countries like Vietnam and Cambodia that skirt U.S. tariffs. It's probably at least 30%. Europe. Every major country in Europe is over 30%, with the exception of Germany, which is over 40. Canada and Mexico are probably in the worst negotiating positions possible. 35% of their GDP respectively comes from exports. But of that 35 points, 25 points is from just exporting stuff to the U.S. so look, if there's a trade war, everybody's going to be hurt. There's no question about that. But the US Will be hurt the least because we are, of all developed countries, the most insular economy of any country in the developed world.

[Megyn Kelly]

President Trump betting on this strong position to force America's trading partners back to the table, reshaping trade policy away from the free trade optimism of the 1990s. President Bill Clinton in 1993 celebrating the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA, and opening the doors to globalization.

[Donald Trump]

We have made a decision now that will permit us to create an economic order in the world that will promote more growth, more equality, better preservation of the environment, and a greater possibility of world peace. We are on the verge of a global economic expansion that is sparked by the fact that the United States at this critical moment decided that we would compete, not retreat. It will create the world's largest trade zone and create 200,000 jobs in this country by 1995 alone.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mr. Eisman says Mr. Clinton was right about GDP growth, but dead wrong about it would mean for American workers.

[Steve Eisman]

So with respect to GDP, the US over the last 25 years has become a more and more dynamic economy. I would argue that it's probably the more dynamic than it's ever been, maybe in our history, or certainly for a very, very long time. That's all to the what Clinton did helped usher in a bull market that has lasted with fits and starts for 25 some odd years now, maybe longer. All that's for the good. And people have made a lot of money in the stock market partially because of what he did. But if you travel the country in the south, the Midwest, which used to be the industrial heartland of the United States, you come across communities where people didn't just lose their jobs, their communities got obliterated. Obliterated. And we as a country did nothing for these people. We basically told them, good luck to you, go learn how to code. And they didn't learn how to code. So I think part of the motivation for President Trump is to right what really was a serious wrong.

[Megyn Kelly]

Vice President J.D. vance, rising to national prominence after writing Hillbilly Elegy, a memoir of growing up in a town hollowed out by free trade and globalization. At the time, Mr. Vance praised for offering a candid account of NAFTA's failures and for helping explain the political rise of Donald Trump, who campaigned in 2016 on a promise to restore dignity to the nation's forgotten men and women. Many of those same critics now attacking President Trump for demanding a new trade deal with Mexico and Canada. Mr. Eisman argues the backlash stems less from policy disagreements and more from deeply entrenched economic dogma.

[Steve Eisman]

And I think they get literally borderline hysterical about it because we all went to college and we had drummed into our heads an Econ 101, which everybody took. Even if you're not an economist, you took. And one of the things you learned was that free trade is good, tariffs are bad, trade wars are terrible. It's something that is so ingrained in your head you don't even realize anymore that it's there. And here comes President Trump telling Everybody, look, the paradigm worked for some people and really badly hurt other people. We need to change the terms of trade, and people find that extremely jarring. But I think there's a lot of merit to what he's arguing. I mean, if you look around, we have the freest markets in the world, and everybody else is playing a version of mercantilism. And what I mean by that is they want to basically improve their economies by exporting a lot to the United States. And to do that, we must maintain a deficit forever. And basically, President Trump is saying enough.

[Megyn Kelly]

And for Americans anxious about what comes next, Eisman offering a word of reassurance.

[Steve Eisman]

I tend not to panic. I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the US Financial system is quite safe. I couldn't have made that statement 17 years ago at all, but I think I can make that statement today. If again, God forbid, there's a trade war, there certainly couldn't be a recession. There could be a global recession, but you're not going to have another great financial crisis.

[Megyn Kelly]

That'll do it. For your AM Update, I'm Megyn Kelly. Join me back here for the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 at noon east on YouTube.com megankelly and on all podcast platforms.

[Donald Trump]

The wrongs we must right, the fights we must win, the future we must secure together for our nation. This is is what's in front of us.

[Megyn Kelly]

This determines what's next for all of us.

[Donald Trump]

We are Marines. We were made for this.