The Robinson-Twiggs DNA Evidence, and Assassination Culture, with Jack Posobiec, Sean Davis, and Sohrab Ahmari | Ep. 1355

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show: The Robinson-Twiggs DNA Evidence, and Assassination Culture

Date: July 8, 2026
Episode: 1355
Host: Megyn Kelly (with guests Jack Posobiec, Sean Davis, and Sohrab Ahmari)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the ongoing preliminary hearing in the Tyler Robinson case—the man accused of assassinating conservative activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University (UVU). Megyn Kelly and her guests, including in-court eyewitness Jack Posobiec and political commentators Sean Davis and Sohrab Ahmari, break down courtroom developments, the timeline and evidence presented, questions of campus security failures, the DNA findings involving both Robinson and Lance Twigs (Robinson's roommate and lover), and broader reflections on political violence and "assassination culture" targeting conservative voices.
The last third of the episode also delves into Democratic Party scandals and national politics, including the Graham Platner Senate campaign implosion and commentary on U.S.–Iran relations.

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Key Segment Breakdown & Timed Highlights

1. Courtroom Evidence & Timeline Reconstruction

[00:33–13:45]

Surveillance Videos and Timeline

• Megyn summarizes the critical new evidence shown at the Robinson preliminary hearing: enhanced campus surveillance videos.
• Videos track the man believed to be Robinson arriving at the UVU campus at 8:30 a.m., interacting with Turning Point USA representatives, leaving, returning with different clothing (and later, a limp), and finally on the roof of the Losey building at the time of the shooting.
• Prosecutors say the limp and an object down his pant leg suggest Robinson concealed the murder weapon in pieces.

Notable Quotes:

• “It's chilling to think about this man having a Chick-fil-A sandwich right before he carried out a horrific assassination, according to prosecutors.” — Sean Davis ([07:53])
• “It looks like Tyler Robinson. The police testimony is that it is Tyler Robinson. And he's back on campus at 11:53 now dressed in jeans and a different shirt…He now suddenly has a limp…It does appear there's something down his pant leg.” — Sean Davis ([10:10])

Courtroom Atmosphere & Reactions

• Jack Posobiec describes a tense courtroom crowded with police and the families of both Robinson and Kirk.
• Robinson is unemotional and shows no acknowledgement of his family or the Kirk family, despite their emotional distress.

Notable Quotes:

• “Just a cold, very cold feeling came over me. Just a very, just...that sense of cold running up and down your spine...” — Jack Posobiec ([21:36])
• “You know that these people lost somebody...don't you just think, just maybe, have a little bit of respect and basic human decency towards someone else?” — Jack Posobiec ([23:27])

Identification in Court

• Moment when law enforcement identifies Robinson in the courtroom:
  • "Would you please point him out and identify something that he is wearing?" — Megyn Kelly ([29:42])
  • “I believe that Mr. Robinson is between Ms. Nestor and other council, wearing a gray suit jacket with a dark tie and a light colored shirt.” — David Hull ([29:42])

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2. Evidence Deep Dive: DNA, Motive, and Forensic Details

[31:57–47:00]

DNA Evidence Explained

• DNA results from items like a towel (used to wrap the gun) and a screwdriver (found on the roof) show both Robinson’s DNA (major contributor 89–95%) and Lance Twigs’ DNA (minor contributor 5–11%).
• Megyn and Jack clarify reporting confusion; Twigs being a minor contributor fits with roommate transfer via shared objects, not evidence of direct weapon use by Twigs.

Notable Quotes:

• “Major contributor, Tyler Robinson, is the 95%. The minor is 5%. That's the towel. And then 89%, 11% on the screwdriver.” — Jack Posobiec ([39:57])

Theories on Smuggling and Assembling the Weapon

• They discuss a YouTuber’s reconstruction showing how Robinson could have concealed the disassembled rifle in his pants, lending weight to the prosecution’s narrative.
• Quote: “If you disassemble this into two major pieces…it's actually concealable underneath the clothing without even needing to use the backpack.” — Jack Posobiec ([44:07])
• They play the video of the simulation (Matt Kester video, [45:51–47:30]), finding it “very compelling” in recreating the limp and concealment.

Security & Campus Access Concerns

• Investigative reporting and video evidence show the roof was easily accessible pre-assassination.
• Discussion of correspondence between Charlie's security and UVU police shows miscommunication and misplaced trust (“I got you covered”) led to the fatal vulnerability.
• “No, you make sure. When you’re the one getting paid to protect a principal, it’s your job to make sure everything is covered, and you follow up and you make sure.” — Megyn Kelly ([57:16])

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3. Reflections on Political Violence & “Assassination Culture”

[61:00–72:40]

The Chilling New Normal for Conservatives

• Discussion turns to how political violence and threats now stalk conservative, Christian, or right-wing public figures in America.
• All present describe the necessity of personal security, even for journalists and commentators, and lament that this specific threat environment does not exist for the left.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you are a Christian, if you’re a conservative or a Republican, you walk out your door every day wondering if someone’s gonna try and kill you.” — Sean Davis ([62:27])
• “We’re not public officials...but we’re podcasters, you know, we’re media, we’re journalists. This is so bizarre.” — Megyn Kelly ([64:26])

Motives, Conspiracies, and Media Narratives

• The group dissects how parts of the right and left have retreated into conspiracy or denial after Kirk’s assassination.
• Forensic and digital evidence overwhelmingly suggest Robinson acted alone, motivated by animus over gender and trans issues.
• The broader problem, they argue, is a trend of “transgender terroristic violence,” with recent incidents cited parallel to a “demonic, violent, terroristic, ideological movement.”

Notable Quotes:

• “We have an utter epidemic of transgender terroristic violence in this country. This wasn’t the first time it happened...This is yet one more example of left-wing, transgender terroristic violence. It has to stop.” — Sean Davis ([69:55])

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4. Political Scandals: Graham Platner Campaign Implosion

[76:45–87:25]

The Platner Fallout

• The panel reviews the Democratic Senate campaign scandal surrounding Graham Platner—allegations of sexual impropriety, “consensual carelessness,” and character issues.
• While agreeing Platner is flawed, the hosts debate the cultural impact of “he said, she said” scandals and their evidentiary limits.

Notable Quotes:

• “Everyone made terrible decisions. Okay? Sleeping with Graham Platner, bad decision. Being promiscuous before marriage...bad decision. Talking in great detail about your sex life to the New York Times, bad decision.” — Sohrab Ahmari ([83:16])

Electoral Impact

• Uncertainty whether the Democratic Party’s loss of an already flawed candidate helps or hurts Republicans.
• “You were never going to beat Susan Collins anyway... It's probably better for Republicans to see this total CF going on with them.” — Sohrab Ahmari ([86:34])

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5. US-Iran Tensions & Media Culture Commentary

[95:18–103:44]

US-Iran Ceasefire Collapses

• President Trump declares the Iran ceasefire “over” after attacks on shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, promising more bombing.
• Guests express skepticism that Iran can escalate, and frame it as more Europe’s energy problem than America’s.

Notable Quotes:

• “As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators...But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them.” — Trump, played by Megyn Kelly ([95:18])

On “Weaponizing” the American Flag

• Brief, critical commentary on Sunny Hostin (The View) suggesting the American flag is now a symbol of white supremacy.
• Panel jokes about their own communities posting more flags to keep “Sunny Hostin away.” ([103:27])

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On the accused’s demeanor:
  “Cold, very cold feeling ... I look over and realize that it's him ... Erica and the parents ... they were strong. They had grace, they did not flinch.” — Jack Posobiec ([21:36])

• On DNA confusion:
  “Twigs better aligned with that 11% contributor and Mr. Robinson better aligned with that 89% contributor ... obvious reason that [the DNA] would be a common item.” — Jack Posobiec ([39:35])

• On campus vulnerability:
  “The team did think of it, and they trusted where they shouldn't have. That's how it looks to me.” — Megyn Kelly ([57:16])

• On the normalization of assassination attempts:
  “This episode really digs into how the right is responding to the sense of assassination culture... It's not just politicians, it's podcasters, journalists, activists.” ([61:18]–[66:10])

• On left-wing violence narrative:
  “We have an utter epidemic of transgender terroristic violence in this country... The dots basically connect themselves.” — Sean Davis ([69:55])

• On "assassination culture":
  “How do we get back to where we can just disagree over things without wishing everyone who disagrees with us got killed or is dead?” — Sohrab Ahmari ([64:26])

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Conclusion & Next Steps

• The Robinson case builds as a model for modern political violence trials, with overwhelming digital and forensic evidence.
• Cultural questions about the safety of public figures on the right, the limits of security, and the impact of ideological violence are front and center.
• Political scandals and U.S. foreign policy round out a program juggling both the granular (evidence breakdown, security failures) and landscape-level (assassination culture, political decay) trends.

For ongoing coverage: Megyn Kelly promises deep dives, especially on the Twigs testimony and additional court developments, streaming live on YouTube.

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For listeners wanting a succinct take:

• The hearing is revealing an overwhelming circumstantial and forensic case against Robinson with new video/DNA evidence, but also exposing critical failures in event security and raising major alarms about ongoing political violence.
• The episode seamlessly pivots from courtroom detail to national reflection, holding a consistent, urgent, and sometimes sardonic conservative tone throughout.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

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[David Hull]

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[Sean Davis]

Everyone in the all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. Day three of the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing starting later this afternoon. They're getting a late start today. And this afternoon we are speaking with Jack Posobec, a dear friend and colleague of Charlie's who's been in court all this week, seeing everything firsthand. And he'll describe to us the dynamic inside that courtroom and how he thinks it's going. But I want to begin with what we learned yesterday about the man accused of murdering Charlie. And that's Tyler Robinson. And the timeline that we're learning about now detailing Robinson's time on campus at Utah Valley University the day Charlie was killed, September 10th of last year. We saw pictures of the man prosecutors say is Robinson for the first time last year as investigators desperately hunted him down. And yesterday in court, we got to see some of the surveillance videos alleged to be of Robinson as he moved about campus. It was the very first time we've seen them. We've seen some still shots from these videos leading up to yesterday, but we have never seen these videos. And, you know, there was a big fight in court because the prosecution has enhanced versions of the videos with zooms and circles, which would be very helpful, wouldn't they? Because these are surveillance videos which, you know, by their nature are not great. And circling where he is, even if you don't accept this as Tyler Robinson, circling where they're saying the perpetrator is, would be quite helpful. But the defense objected. So we don't get to see that. We did. We get to see the videos, but we don't get to see the prosecution's helpful zooms and circles. And here's the judge, Tony Graff, explaining why yesterday I don't find it's necessary

[Megyn Kelly]

to replay this video given the representation that's the exact same video. The difference being enhancements made.

[John Daniel Davidson]

If it was different in any way

[Megyn Kelly]

or if it added to or subtracted from that would be one factor. But because it's simply the same video,

[John Daniel Davidson]

simply zooming in with circles or.

[Megyn Kelly]

Or notations, the court does not find that the interests of justice requires it being played again. But it is received into evidence and

[John Daniel Davidson]

will be reviewed by.

[Megyn Kelly]

By myself in determining a probable cause determination. And I appreciate that, Judge. And just so we're clear, states Exhibit 12.1 has been admitted. It is received into evidence?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And your intent is to review it in its entirety, but not here in the courtroom? Yes.

[Sean Davis]

Well, Utah law enforcement isn't the only group of folks who know how to enhance video. So we did it ourselves for you. And we're going to walk you through what the video showed yesterday so you can see the man alleged to be Robinson more clearly and see the prosecution's case laid out. Here's Sergeant David Hull, who was with the Utah State Bureau of Investigation at the time of the murder, explaining the video they say is Robinson arriving on campus. To the prosecutor who was questioning him, David Sturgill. This is a little less than four hours before the shooting took place. Watch.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, what are we seeing here, Agent Hall?

[David Hull]

That's a vehicle that is believed to belong to Mr. Robinson arriving in the parking garage on campus.

[Megyn Kelly]

At what time? In the morning? What time of the day?

[David Hull]

It's approximately 8:30 in the morning on September 10, 2025.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what leads you to believe that this particular vehicle belongs to Mr. Robinson?

[David Hull]

Information that was provided regards to driver's license and Department of Motor Vehicle records. The vehicle fits the description of a vehicle owned by Mr. Robinson.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is there anything unique about that vehicle that stands out to you?

[David Hull]

The shape of the vehicle is very distinct, but predominantly the wheels were very distinctive on this version of the vehicle.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, what do we see?

[David Hull]

The driver of the vehicle exits the vehicle and then walks on foot to exit the parking garage. It's the individual in the the red T shirt and the shorts and the shoes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And do you believe you recognize who that person is?

[David Hull]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who is that?

[David Hull]

I believe that's Tyler Robinson.

[Sean Davis]

You heard it there. The police believe that is Tyler Robinson arriving on campus at 8:30 that morning. According to Sgt. Hall, the man next went onto the UVU campus and made contact with with Turning Point USA representatives in the area where Charlie would soon be gunned down. Just such a chilling fact. I'm sure they thought he was a young student interested in hearing Charlie's message. And I'm sure they happily and willingly gave him the details on exactly what time things would be getting underway. They weren't secret. And how they could, you know, he could best see Charlie whatever information he asked for as long it was within the bounds of normal propriety for a public appearance. I'm sure they would have given the whole goal was to be seen. Charlie didn't want to do these events inside where he would have been safer because he wanted the hope of getting the passers by. He wanted his message to reach far and wide for the chance to possibly persuade people over to his point of view peacefully and logically. After that moment, the testimony was that Tyler Robinson, again the man believed to be, would leave campus again. You can see him on your screen now returning to the parking garage. That's what they say he's doing here, going down the steps back to the parking garage after that hour on campus. It's 9:24am Just under three hours before the shot rang out. The parking garage is just a short walk from the amphitheater area where Charlie was set to speak. The outdoor amphitheater, in other words. The man spent a little less than an hour on campus that morning, clearly scoping out the scene. The prosecution says Robinson then returned to campus again shortly thereafter. Here's Sergeant Hull explaining this next video to Sturgill.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now what do we see?

[David Hull]

This is Mr. Robinson returning to the campus on foot from the neighborhood to the northeast. You can see he's wearing the same clothing as in the previous video and he's carrying a blue backpack.

[Megyn Kelly]

Describe the clothing.

[David Hull]

It's a maroon colored T shirt with gray or olive colored shorts and then Converse shoes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what time did he return to campus?

[David Hull]

Just after 10am and during this visit,

[Megyn Kelly]

do you know where he goes after he leaves the. The parking structure?

[David Hull]

Yes. We're able to track his movements on campus. He went to Chick Fil a in the Sorenson Building and purchased some food. Satinate the food.

[Sean Davis]

It's chilling. It's chilling to think about this man having a Chick fil a sandwich right before he carried out a horrific assassination, according to prosecutors. And also, you know, for that matter, expected himself to die or possibly get arrested, as his alleged note would later reveal. I mean, just think about this guy like you wanted to commit murder on a full stomach. What the f. The man would then go to a wooded area and leave campus again around 11am so this is another about an hour that he's spent on campus. This time he came back with a backpack and walks around campus for about an hour and then left campus around 11am and they don't show us the video of him leaving the campus, but now here he is returning to campus again, this time looking different, different outfit. Watch.

[Megyn Kelly]

You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus?

[David Hull]

I do, yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, and what do you believe? It's Mr. Robinson.

[David Hull]

The shoes are the same. And the images that we have from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video, it's the same person.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's noticeably wearing different clothing.

[David Hull]

He is wearing different clothing and he also is walking with a gate or a limp. In this video, this is Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure. Again, he seems to be having issues walking.

[Megyn Kelly]

And again, were you able to track. So were you able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?

[David Hull]

Yes, we were able to. He comes up around Campus Drive. As you can see on the video here, there is a cut through there north of the Losey building. And that's Mr. Robinson coming up the sidewalk. He has the noticeable gait or limp in his walk. And then he moves south across the front of the Losee Building. He would be the rear of the two individuals in this particular video.

[Sean Davis]

And you watch him walk down the sidewalk. Law enforcement testifying that they were able to continue to track this man's movements and that he next went. That video we just showed you, by the way, was 11:53am Charlie was shot at 12:23. So they were able to track this man's movements. It looks like Tyler Robinson. The police testimony is that it is Tyler Robinson. And he's back on campus at 11:53 now dressed in jeans and a different shirt. Has the hat and the sunglasses and the same sneakers as before. But unlike before, he now suddenly has a limp. He had no limp in either of the earlier videos. And it does appear there's something down his pant leg. And obviously they believe it was the long gun. It was the rifle. They say he next went to the Losee Center. I don't know if that's a student center, but it's one of the buildings on campus roof. And that is where authorities believe Robinson fired the single shot that killed Charlie. Kirk, watch.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what time is this?

[David Hull]

It's just off to noon about 12:15.

[Megyn Kelly]

What just happened or what did we just see happen?

[David Hull]

The individual actually kind of rolls over the railing onto the roof of the Losee building. All right, and again in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Loci building to what would be the southwest corner of the building, crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.

[Megyn Kelly]

And this is at what time?

[David Hull]

Around 12:23, I think. The time stamp on the video is 12:22.

[Megyn Kelly]

On the 10th.

[David Hull]

On September 10th? Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

20:24.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

We're clear.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is the roof of the Losi building.

[David Hull]

Correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you still see that individual?

[David Hull]

Yes, you can. Lane prone.

[Megyn Kelly]

And how long is he out there on the edge of the building?

[David Hull]

Just until the reported shot was fired at 1223 and 28. Individual then stands up and then moves across the building to the north.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that what we're seeing happening right now?

[David Hull]

It is, yes. They move behind the atrium area on the rooftop to the northeast corner where the white triangle is.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you see Mr. Robinson now?

[David Hull]

I do, yes. He's just arriving at the corner of the building.

[Megyn Kelly]

What are we seeing now?

[David Hull]

Mr. Robinson lowering and jumping off of the roof of the Losey building onto the grass area and then moving away towards Campus Drive.

[Sean Davis]

That figure on the roof then went on the run. And we now have video of his car on campus about six hours after the shooting. Watch.

[David Hull]

This is the intersection of Campus Drive and 800 South. There's a vehicle attempting to turn right onto Campus Drive. That's the vehicle that was driven by Mr. Robinson.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now what do we see?

[David Hull]

That vehicle's now pulling away and heading east on 800 South.

[Sean Davis]

Early the next day, technically, later that Same evening, about 12:30am A local police officer on traffic duty made contact with Tyler Robinson driving that same car. According to Hull, based on his, quote, cop intuition, this officer ran the license plate of the car that by this point, a manhunt was underway. They knew that Charlie had been murdered on their campus earlier that day, 12 hours earlier. And the license plate belonged to Tyler Robinson. So this is the cops telling us that Robinson came back to the scene at 12:30am 12 hours after he allegedly shot Charlie. According to prosecutors, Robinson had left a note for his trans furry lover, Lance Twigs, that read, quote, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. Upon finding it, Twigs texted Robinson back, quote, you weren't the one who did it, right? Robinson replying, I am. I'm sorry. Twigs asked why, And Robinson texted back, quote, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Joining me now for reaction is Jack Posobic, a senior editor at Human Events and a Turning Point USA contributor and a dear friend of Charlie's. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line handshake. They get their commission and then they're kind of done with you. You may not hear from them again until it's time renewal, in which case, once again, they're your best friend. That's annoying. But your business runs all year and so do the gaps and the risk and things happen. And this is why I want to tell you about Super Sure. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, the CFO or the HR manager, it can be too complex to just buy a policy online. Super sure is the super agency built just for you. It's licensed in every state for your business, insurance and employee benefits. With year round support for you and your team@super sure.com, you can access tools like Fine Print Facts, which translates your current policy into plain English so you see what's covered and what's not. Plus a business value calculator so that you can estimate what your business is worth and know what actually needs protecting. Go to supersure.com Megan One super agency. One powerful platform. All your policies in one place. Supersure.com Megan Paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Jack, I know you've been sitting there all week. What's that been like and how do you think it's going?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, hey Megan, thanks so much for having me on and of course for your extensive coverage of this case and hearing. As we're into it now, I struggle to find the words to put it together. It's surreal. The whole thing is completely surreal. When you get to that courthouse and you walk through, I mean the security situation is absolutely, is, is, is absolutely tremendous. There's security from counter snipers up on the roof to drones to when Don Jr. Was there. We had Secret Service. We have men with long guns. We've got SWAT team inside and outside. So you're walking through all of that. That's the media. And then when you get into the room itself, the courtroom is actually, it's quite small. There's only about four rows with wooden sort of like church pews where you sit in. It's not particularly comfortable. And that's the whole gallery. So I'm in the front row. Don Junior's over here. And then right on the other side, it's, it's Erica, Charlie's parents. And then just in the Next row is Tyler Robinson's family. And again, you've just got these SWAT officers all over the place, even inside the courtroom, and then sheriffs and the bailiffs up front, and there's media in the jury box right now. And I don't know how much of this you can see on the live stream, because I think they. They put some restrictions on exactly, you know, what can be shown. And. And then there's only a few feet between us. And. And right there is Tyler Robinson. And he's. He's right. He's right there. And he's been right there the whole time. He hasn't turned back. He hasn't acknowledged either Charlie's family or even his own family. You know, from. From their part, I would say that just seeing Charlie's family go through this, they're showing incredible strength. And you see Erica and Charlie's mother just been sitting next to each other, being there for one another and being willing to face down that hell itself and be there going through this. And then also, I would even say that, you know, my heart goes out to. To Tyler Robinson's family as well, because their family was also destroyed by this act. And they seem to be. They seem to be good people. They did the honorable thing, I think, in watching the news, seeing what happened, and then picking up that phone. I haven't. I haven't heard them say one word the entire time. Very quiet. There's, you know, obvious reasons for that, but it can't be easy for them. But they seem like. They seem like good people. They seem like honorable people. They seem like good American citizens. And I think they probably never expected to be in a situation where they find themselves now. And so I've just, you know, we're. We're praying for. We're praying for everyone involved in this. I've had my rosary out the entire time. I've actually been saying the rosary during court. I will say I'm not the only one with my rosary out. I'm not going to say who else did. That's for them to come out and say. But there's been a lot of prayer, and we. We're doing everything we can to make sure that the Holy Spirit is in that room with us.

[Sean Davis]

Thank God. Thank God. That makes me feel better to know that you have that beautiful rosary. You gave me one, too, which I use all the time in there with you. It just feels like a measure of protection somehow. Who. Who is there for Tyler Robinson? Is it just his parents?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know. All of his family members. It's. It clearly his mother and father that I do recognize. And then they do have a number of people with them. It could, I think, more than likely extended family. Again, there's not much communication because when you're in court, you're not, you're not talking. They do ask that we, you know, maintain decorum. They ask that we be quiet. So. And then when we break, you know, there's sort of an area where they go and there's an area where. Where we go. There's an area where the media and the public go. And so it's, it's, you know, not really conducive to any sort of back and forth or interaction. And, and the same, you know, no cell phones. Actually, someone had a cell phone at one point and they were asked to ask to, you know, take it out. And so we do have notepads, a number of us, and so we're doing what we can to take notes. But yeah, no, no phones or anything like that. But yes, Tyler Robinson's family is there in the courtroom as well. And again, it's. It's a very, very small space. And that's just adds to how surreal it is because you think about how this had so much impact, not on just the lives of the families, but on our country and the world. And yet here we all are. And it's. It's just a. It's just a room. It's just a very small room.

[Sean Davis]

Can you describe the moment? Because this is the first moment you, Erica, Charlie's parents, his sister, have come face to face with his accused killer. And there was a moment where for the first time you saw this man walk in or you saw his face in person, as opposed to what we've all seen on the air. Describe that for us.

[Megyn Kelly]

So the way it was set up was that he was there prior to us coming in and sitting in a light suit there at the defendant's table. And he's seems small next to his legal team. And we were standing and a few other people were standing, and I think for a moment we actually didn't even realize that he was there. And then once we got situated, and again, there's so much security, you're being asked to sit down, etc. And so we sit down and look over and realize that it's him. And, and I would say just a, just a cold, A very cold feeling came over me. Just a very, just. I just felt very cold and like a, like that sense of, of cold running up and down your spine and the hairs on the back of your neck go up and glad I had my rosary in that moment. And I, I look over and I see Erica and I see the parents and, you know, and, and they were there. They were, they were strong. They had grace, they did not flinch. And they sat down and were had very stern looks on their faces. And it was very obvious that they wanted to see justice done for what happened to their son and, and husband.

[Sean Davis]

The reports were that he was seen laughing with counsel, that Erica burst out into tears before the proceeding began, but that he, Tyler Robinson, was seen at various points laughing at council table with his lawyers prior to things getting underway. Did you see any of that, Jack?

[Megyn Kelly]

I did, as a matter of fact, and it's something that I noted when it happened. Like I said, there's no discussion in the courtroom, so I didn't even know if anyone else had noticed it. And I didn't realize that it had kind of taken on a life of its own. Later found out that, you know, obviously it was being reported and had gone quite viral. But in that moment, it was just something that I noted looking over saying, charlie's wife and his mother are here and they're in tears. And you're just gonna act like that, like, even, even if you're, you know, presumption of innocence. Okay, sure. But you know that these people lost somebody, and you know that there's a human element to this and a human toll, and don'. Think just maybe have a little bit of respect and basic human decency towards someone else. And I, I got pretty angry when I saw that. I'll just say that I got it didn't sit well with me.

[Sean Davis]

Yes, it makes me feel that he's a true sociopath. You read those text messages, you know, which the police say are his, where he says, oh, it turns out grandpa's rifle really got it done. You know, it works great after he knows he's nearly blown our friend's head off. He knows that he has two little children. He knows he has a wife who loves him. And then when confronted with the family member members whom he's devastated, he has the gall to yuck it up in front of them with his lawyers. There's something completely inhuman about this behavior.

[Megyn Kelly]

I, I couldn't agree more. It's, it's inhuman behavior. It's unhuman behavior. And, you know, I, I, I was surprised too, that no, you know, recognition of his own family, that's, that's been there in the room as mother and Father. And, you know, what we know that's come out is that it seemed like they did not have a particularly close relationship. I think he'd essentially been kind of thrown out of the house because of the lifestyle, and that's been in some of the reporting. And I'm sure we'll get more of that when. When Twigs's testimony comes up, which we expect to come up either today or tomorrow. And. But that being said, they're still. They are there. They have been there every single day. And you'd think that on some level, if your own mother was in a courtroom there for you, right? Regardless of what you did, you know that your mother's there for you because that's a mother's love. And you don't even turn around to your own mother. I just. I. I can't. I can't square that. That's just. It's something that's so beyond my experience because, you know, even at any time in my life where I've, you know, faltered or made a mistake or anything, my mother's always been there for me. And I'll tell you what, there's the. You know, you say what you know, the media is going to say what they say, but the one person that I never, ever want to disappoint is my mother.

[Sean Davis]

It's surprising when you think of even Brian Kohlberger, who murdered four University of Idaho students in cold blood. I mean, hacked them to death with a knife, was communicating with his family in the courtroom, was sort of doing loving gestures back and forth to them, was in regular contact with his mom and dad via phone. You know, right after the murders, he called and had a very lengthy call with his mom, like, was managed to maintain a relationship, in other words, with the people who raised him and who actually did show up in court, visited his parents. This guy. Yeah. And this guy. Nothing. So, I mean, it's. It's somewhat eerie. It's eerie. It's hard to understand. All I can think of right now, Jack, is that video that we saw of. Of Tyler Robinson when this first came out of him finding out that he got into a university and he got some sort of a scholarship, and his mom filmed it in the way parents do sometimes when their kids get their letters from colleges. And it was like this. She was so celebratory of him. He seemed off. I'm going to say he seemed maybe like he was on the spectrum or something. His response sounded weird. The tonality of it seemed off to me. But she seemed like a loving Parent to him in this video. We'll pull it over. We played it months ago and it's so. It's so shocking to me that there. There's nothing. No. You've seen no acknowledgment on his part? No. You know, sometimes they do like hearts to each other. We've seen criminal defendants do that. Nothing.

[Megyn Kelly]

I haven't seen a single moment where he's acknowledged his family and, you know, maybe that's something that they did in other hearings, I don't know. But even in this one, you would think that this is such a key moment. The evidence is now being unveiled for the first time, and it's hard. It's very hard. There was one moment where I believe was Agent Hull came out and, you know, he. He sort of did that, you know, infamous line where he said, you know, do you see that suspect in the room today? And, you know, he gestured to the defendant, he said, yes, he's right there. It's Tyler Robinson. And then they, they, you know, make that for the record. And that was. I mean, it was just a. You could feel the shockwave, the emotional shockwave hit gallery and the. The weight of that moment hit all of us in. In the room. There's no question. And people were breaking down in tears and just no response, no reaction, no turnaround to see what people were doing. Nothing. And. And I would include as well when the videos were played, when the. When the. The. The videos were played too, the graphic videos. Nothing.

[Sean Davis]

We have that moment, such as it is, our angle of it here in SOC 22.

[Megyn Kelly]

For the benefit of the record and for thoroughness, if you wish to re. Ask that question, you certainly.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Well, we can see what happens.

[Megyn Kelly]

If I could, Judge, I'd like to. Would you please point him out and identify something that he is wearing?

[David Hull]

I believe that Mr. Robinson is between Ms. Nestor and other council, wearing a gray suit jacket with a dark tie and a light colored shirt.

[Megyn Kelly]

As I would ask that the record reflect that Agent Hull has identified the defendant.

[Sean Davis]

I have no object. I mean, I made my objection already.

[David Hull]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

I just wanted to check.

[Sean Davis]

No, thank you.

[John Daniel Davidson]

All right. For the purposes of this hearing, I

[Megyn Kelly]

find that Agent hall has identified Mr. Roger Robinson.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Again, this is only for the preliminary hearing.

[Sean Davis]

I mean, it is something to thank God we have, because I think about the Nancy Guthrie case, where this poor woman's been stolen and, you know, is presumed dead at this point, and we have no idea who took her. There's not a person to point at. There's no. This family's going to have to live, likely, possibly at least forevermore, without knowing at least this man, thanks to the parents, as you point out, is in police custody, is facing justice. Whether you think he did it or he didn't, he's getting his due process and the jury will be the final arbiters of his guilt or innocence. But thank God. Thank God. His parents, when he. They recognized him from the tape, they called their son. They demanded to see pictures of the rifle to see if it was still in his custody, which it wasn't. He claimed he'd been home sick that day and the day before, which the mother didn't believe he. And then they talked to him directly about whether he had killed Charlie Kirk. And he told them he wanted to kill himself. There was obviously a bargain, a bargaining going on between them. They called that family friend who was a former sheriff's deputy. That man came over and what the parents reported was that he convinced Tyler Robinson to turn himself in and to do it at the police station so that the police didn't have to search his parents home. You know, he pitched it to him as a way of protecting his family. This would be the honorable thing to do. And he did. And there's been testimony in this trial, Jack, that they did not know who the perpetrator was before Tyler Robinson contacted them and turned himself in. That he was the one who first made himself identifiable to them. Let's talk for a minute about the evidence. Has there been a moment in the court that you've found especially compelling one way or the other?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I think it's more of the process of the evidence that you know it. And they're, they're going through it in a very methodical but very relentless manner where they walk you through. So we started with the. And you can see what they're doing chronologically speaking, where first they start with the officer who was working that day. He was on top of the hall of Flags. He reported what he saw. Then they worked through the evidence from his perspective. Then they brought up the case agent. Now they're getting into the investigation of the cameras and what the cameras see. And the cameras saw these objects. Okay, These objects were later found. What was found on those objects? Okay, DNA. With the DNA matched and with their exclusions. And then. So we're going through all of that and it, it's laborious, it's, it's grueling while you're, especially when you're, you know, hearing this, this two and a half hour argument over whether or not DNA science is real, like this filibuster that happened yesterday. But when you actually just look at the nuggets of evidence again and again and again, they're building their case, and they are building the scaffolding of a very, very strong case against Tyler Robinson. One thing that just kind of popped in my head, and I know everyone keeps asking about this, you know, the Chick Fil a. And Agent Hole brought up that he got the Chick Fil A beforehand. And, and, you know, on one hand, you think, how can someone just, just eat Chick Fil A before you go and do something like that? And my, my gut reaction was revulsion. But then my sort of, you know, prior intel officer side kicked in. I thought, wait a minute, if he purchased Chick Fil A, then that's something you can corroborate. If he used a card or if he used cash, then you could go to that Chick Fil A outlet or you could go to the credit card statement. And now you can begin the process of corroborating. Is that person that we see on video buying the Chick Fil a at this time, does that match up to a financial transaction? Same with the car. If he got gas, which I assume we're going to get very shortly, is, you know, cell phone metadata. It's very clear, by the way, that there was something that Agent Hull said that we tracked him to that area later in the day, and that's where they got that new ring camera footage, I guess, Nest camera footage of the Challenger driving up in the middle of the night. And it reading between the lines, it was pretty clear they had tracked his phone to be able to know, to ask for that specific house at that specific time. So it, it seems to me that they're building a very multi layered, multi tiered case against him in a sense where, you know, you just mentioned Brian Coburger, where it seems like there's a lot more evidence in this case than there was against Coburger. Because there you didn't have all the video, you didn't have the eyewitnesses, you didn't have family members. And all of these other pieces you had, you had the cell phone, you had, I think, you know, fingerprint, you

[Sean Davis]

know, on some sightings.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that was really it. Right. And that was.

[Sean Davis]

That's right.

[Megyn Kelly]

That was pretty much it. Whereas this case, you've got a lot more to deal with.

[Sean Davis]

You certainly didn't have an alleged confession. And there. The most damning evidence against Goldberger was that knife sheath and his touch DNA being found on the sheath. But, of course, had they gone to trial and there had been nothing else they could have argued, he. He went through the gun, the gun store, or the knife store, and he touched that. How can you prove that he was the one holding the knife sheath when the murders were committed? It was all the other evidence. And, yes, I did notice as they released the longer video of who they say is Tyler Robinson coming back to campus with the jeans on now with the newfound limp, which it seems very clear he's got something down the right leg of his pants that it looks like there's a cell phone in his pocket. In fact, we froze the frame and have it here where we zoomed in on it. To me, it looks like obviously the outline of a cell phone. Do we have it? Can we put it on the board, please? Where it seems obvious that he not only had his cell phone, as every young person does, but that he was carrying it as he committed the crime. Because this is him coming back to allegedly commit the crime. This is right before. And so if he had that cell phone on him while he committed the crime, then they're gonna know a lot from that phone.

[Megyn Kelly]

I agree. But I have also heard a theory posited that that might be the butt stock of the rifle. And.

[Sean Davis]

Yep.

[Megyn Kelly]

I wonder what you're. Look that what you're looking at is, in fact the butt stock of the rifle. And that's why he has that limp, because he's got the rifle sort of in between his pants and his shirt, and that's how he's concealing it. But it seems very clear that he's got a cell phone on him somewhere.

[Sean Davis]

And the. The car, too. I mean, in the Alec Murdoch case, the car data. And I don't know how recent his Dodge Challenger was, but, you know, if you looked at my car right now, which is a 20, 25 or 24 model, it would tell you everything about me. The car can reveal how fast you went, where you went, whether you slowed down, you know, whether you sped up, what buttons you were pressing. They can merge it with the cell phone now to see, like, whether you were on the cell phone while you were speeding. We've seen that being done in accidents. So both of those two things, neither of which is on the evidence list for this hearing, because they don't need it. This isn't the full. This isn't the real McGilla. This is just. Just gotta show enough to show he probably did it. So the prosecution's not gonna show all of their cards, though. They're showing a lot. Let's talk about the DNA, because this made a bunch of headlines yesterday because they found the towel that the gun was wrapped in. They found the gun in the woods and they found it wrapped in a towel. And they also found a screwdriver on the roof of the LOSI building from which they believe the shot was fired. And they had the prosecution had a DNA expert testify about the DNA found on those items. And it was revealed for the first time that not only was Tyler Robinson's DNA on those items, but so was the DNA of Lance Twiggs, the transferee roommate, who we expected to testify by videotape again either later today. They were hoping it would happen yesterday. So I, I'm hopeful it'll happen today, if not then tomorrow. We, we think. And people were running with a report that it was predominantly Lance Twig's DNA on this towel and this screwdriver, which would be potentially a game changer in the case. That's not what was testified to. Here is what was testified to. Setting the record straight on some misinformation that's out there. Watch.

[Megyn Kelly]

You stated, I believe, that the minor sample, the minor contributor, was less than 20% and that it was actually 5%. The ratio is 5% to 95% for

[Sean Davis]

one of the samples.

[David Hull]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you remember that?

[Sean Davis]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does that mean the 5% was from twigs and the 95% that that 95% is assumed from the defendant, the.

[John Daniel Davidson]

The

[Megyn Kelly]

province.

[Sean Davis]

When I calculated the statistic Twigs DNA profile aligned with the 5% contributor and Mr. Robinson's DNA profile aligned better with the 95% contributor.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, same question with regard to 8. I think you said the ratio is 11% from the minor and 89% from the major. Is that twigs being the 11% and Robinson being the 89%?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yes.

[Sean Davis]

Twigs better aligned with that 11 contributor and Mr. Robinson better aligned with that 79 contributor. And just to correct myself, that was a defense witness, they, they called their own forensic witness who had done examinations in this case because she wasn't going to be able to testify later. So she kind of came during the prosecution's case. Your thoughts on all that, Jack?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, and I actually this is my notes from in the. The courtroom as well. And so item seven that they're talk, if I have this correctly, is is the towel and then item eight is the screwdriver. So the major contributor, Tyler Robinson is the 95%. The minor is 5%. That's the towel. And then 89%, 11% on the screwdriver. Now, the reason that. So this was the FBI DNA tech out of Quantico. The reason that we're not hearing yet about any touch DNA that was found on the rifle was because that was sent to the ATF labs. That would have been a different lab, a different technician that would come forward to discuss that, which I believe we will be getting at some point as well. So we're going to have another one of these sort of DNA days. But right, this. This idea, of course, that they were. They were roommates, you know, Tad. Towels that, you know, shared DNA from touch DNA or, you know, just towels that are. That are in the same bathroom. That's. That's something that's pretty common, I think. Screwdrivers as well. Obvious reason that that would be a common. A common piece of the, you know, something that would be shared, a common item. One thing that I did find that was interesting was that McBride, who was the. The prosecutor there, Mr. McBride, he's. He's the star of the day, as far as I'm concerned, in terms of just his clarity and his ability to get the message across. The same way he fought for one of the affidavits earlier regarding some of the turning point mission that he. He pointed out that there's degradation potentially if something is left exposed to the elements. And it took me a second to realize, why does he keep bringing up degradation? Then he realized, oh, because he's talking about the fact that one of these was left on a rooftop exposed to uvu. It was a sunny day, so. Excuse me. Exposed to UV light. So it's a sunny day at uvu. And then the other was left in a. In a wooded area, so even for several hours, was exposed to the elements as well. And it seemed to me that he was. He was kind of working his way to lay the foundation to tie that together.

[Sean Davis]

Jack Something that's confused me about this case since we first started getting glimpses of screen grabs from the videos is what is. If you know, and it may not have been discussed yet, or you may not know, but what is the theory about how the gun was transported there and away from there? Because they show him returning to campus in the long pants, and it looks like he's got the long gun down the right leg, which is why he has the limp, but he has the backpack on him. And then we see him get onto the roof, assuming it's Tyler Robinson, as they say, see him get onto the roof, and we're told he fires the fatal shot and then runs across the roof. And has the gun still. And by the way, we believe. We believe the screwdriver was necessary to assemble the gun. But if he had the gun down his pants, why would he need to assemble it on the rooftop? And then why, when he ran after the shooting, would the gun remain assembled, which it appeared to be as he jumped off the side and then it was found assembled? That's my information. In the woods. He didn't disassemble it or stuff it into a backpack. So do we understand anything about how the gun was or was not assembled, what the screwdriver was for and what he did with the gun?

[Megyn Kelly]

There's. There's a YouTuber, and I have to give a shout out to him, named Matt Kester, who's actually done some really, really good reconstructions on this because he's been trying to answer that same question, something that I certainly have thought about over the last 10 months. And, and he put together a pretty compelling, I guess, reconstruction where he took the two pieces of the Mauser, the. The stock and then the barrel, separated them, and he found, I guess, a friend who is pretty much the same build as Tyler Robinson, and put the stock down one side of the pant leg and then the barrel down the other, and said, look, if you disassemble this into the two major pieces, then. So this, the barrel would have the scope on it, that it's actually concealable underneath the clothing without even needing to use the backpack. So the backpack could just be the. The other set of clothes. And then they showed as this individual was walking up and down the stairs or just walking back and forth. He had the exact same sort of stilted gait and limp that we see Tyler Robinson have, but he's still able to bend his knee, move up the stairs. So it may have been that the gun was disassembled. He gets up to the roof and. And by the way, I've gone to the. The campus now and walked this very same area. The stairwell gone up to the roof. Part of it's blocked off now, but got as close as we could to the area. It's very accessible. This is a. A campus that's built into the side of a. A hilly area there off of Utah Lake. And so there's stairwells and walkways all out, all open to the public. It's very, very easy to access this area. And so he gets on the roof, then assembles the gun, so puts the two pieces back together of the rifle, uses the screwdriver, and it's very quick kind of like field stripping. So very quick way to reassemble it only takes about 35 seconds and fires the shot. And then after firing the shot, drops the screwdriver or, you know, perhaps forgets that it's up there, presumably then runs away with it still assembled. And we find it still assembled. So that's the best theory that I've seen on this and seems to. Seems to fit the facts as they lay.

[Sean Davis]

We actually have some of that Matt Kester video demonstrating part of what you just said. We'll look at it now. Sat 41.

[Megyn Kelly]

You remember that image of the gigantic

[Sohrab Ahmari]

cell phone sitting right here in the thigh?

[Sean Davis]

That's your stock.

[Megyn Kelly]

That expl. The leg motion cannot come forward because it's completely locked in.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

And if you see.

[Sean Davis]

I'll put the video or the image

[Megyn Kelly]

up on the screen in the photo,

[John Daniel Davidson]

you can start to see an outline of the stock.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

This has solved the riddle that has been bugging me the whole time about the bulk of the stock. Essentially. I believe now with 90 something percent certainty that the stock was carried this way.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

The barrel was carried on the side.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, whether or not the scope came

[Sean Davis]

off or not, that's an item for debate, and we can talk about the

[Megyn Kelly]

ramifications of that later. But I think with certainty, you're fair,

[Sohrab Ahmari]

not you can't be certain about anything.

[Megyn Kelly]

But I think as close as we

[Sean Davis]

can be to certain, this is how this was carried.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's why I think he hooked it underneath his armpit.

[David Hull]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Kept his arms straight down.

[Sean Davis]

Because if you see when he walks,

[Megyn Kelly]

he doesn't have his hands.

[Sean Davis]

His pockets, they're out.

[Megyn Kelly]

Keep your hands out.

[Sean Davis]

All right, now walk towards model. Walking. Yeah, it's a similar gate. It's. It looks like somebody who. Who's lost the full use of their right leg, which is how Tyler.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I find that. I find it very compelling. I find it very compelling.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah. And on top of that, there's been a debate about whether it would have required some special skill by Tyler Robinson to get onto the roof. That too. Seems like it was very easy. Brian Enten reporting for News Nation. He went and did it and filmed himself doing it. And here's that video.

[John Daniel Davidson]

The courtyard where the shooting happened is right back there. But this is all, you know, public

[Megyn Kelly]

area where people walk around.

[John Daniel Davidson]

If you just go up these stairs right here, I'm going to walk up the stairs. You're suddenly up here. This is a. This is a walkway here. Okay. So you can get between buildings here. And on this side, it's now gated off. This was not gated off before the Charlie Kirk assassination, but it is now gated off. Basically what investigators say Tyler Robinson did is this gate wasn't here.

[Megyn Kelly]

So he just walked right over to

[John Daniel Davidson]

that short little gate that you see over there, that.

[Megyn Kelly]

That more permanent gate. And then all you had to do

[John Daniel Davidson]

is just go right on top of that, which would.

[Megyn Kelly]

Anybody could do.

[John Daniel Davidson]

It would just take a second and then walk out on the roof.

[Megyn Kelly]

And right over there on the edge

[John Daniel Davidson]

would be a direct view, just the perfect line of sight to where Charlie Kirk was speaking.

[Sean Davis]

So very easy. And the only acrobatics required would have been jumping off the roof and running. And we've all seen that video with our own eyes. Clearly it wasn't much of a challenge.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, it wasn't. And I just got to see Brian the other day, and I thanked him for all the work that he's been doing out here. He been here every day as well, doing his reporting. And we went as well. I went with my team to that same area and did the walk through. And in fact, one piece that I guess I would add is that. So we started right where Charlie's tent was and then just walked from the tent all the way back to the sniper perch. And I would say we made it there in about five minutes. This is a very small area, and I think it's something that on video, you just don't quite see how small it is and how compact of an area it is. It's sort of this fishbowl amphitheater. And so, you know, while you were going through and indicating the different buildings, the LOSI Center, Sorensen, it's. It's all connected. All the buildings are interconnected. And again, it's. It's just very small. So the idea that it would be hard to get up there is, Is, you know. You know, it's just not true. It just doesn't comport with the facts. This is a very small area. It's very easy to get up there. And it's designed to be able to have access to those roofs and those walkways.

[Sean Davis]

And of course, we have only to ask ourselves why they didn't think of that. You know, why the security didn't plan for that. We were told that the. The local police had assured the Turning Point security that they were covering it. They weren't. They didn't. And they have only regrets now when they think about that security plan. Jack, we'll check back in with you as this thing goes on. Thanks so much for being there. And for coming on today.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you so much, Megan. I really appreciate it. And we all appreciate your coverage.

[Sean Davis]

Lots of love to you and everybody out there. Coming up next, Sohrab and Sean are here to cover some other news of the day. Don't go away. High prices might be here to stay. Gas, groceries, insurance. I mean, if you're a homeowner, you may have thought, should I refinance to pay off this credit card debt? Right? Who hasn't thought that at one point or another? But then you second guess yourself because of that low mortgage rate you currently have. Look, that low rate, it's not saving you if you're drowning in credit card interest at 25% or more. And if you're only making minimum payments, that debt can follow you for years. This is why people are calling American Financing, because they can save customers an average of $800 a month by using equity to finally break free from credit card debt. No upfront fees, no pressure. And if you start today, you may be able to delay two mortgage payments. Call American Financing and just check it out. See if it's right for you. Okay, it's 800-852-2010. That's 800-852-2010 or American financing.net MeganKelly Disclaimer NMLS number 182334 NMLSConsumeraccess.org APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers, call. For details about credit costs and terms, visit americanfinancing.net Megankelley Average savings based on borrowers who save over $199.99 say you've

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

Here's the thing.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? So use Empower and get good at

[Sohrab Ahmari]

money so you can be a little bad.

[Megyn Kelly]

Join their 20 million customers [e-mail] not an empower client, paid or sponsored.

[Sean Davis]

You're never just one thing. You're the boss. Hey, Google, when's my next meeting? The athlete wrecks me and their mom. Everyone in the allnew Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated. Just want to spend a little bit more time in this Tyler Robinson hearing because this all leads to the obvious question that I raised right before we said goodbye to Jack, which is why? Why wasn't the roof covered? Why wasn't the roof being protected and patrolled? Why 14 months after Butler was Charlie so exposed like a sitting duck down below? And we do know some of the answers around that. I have spoken to Turning Point myself directly. I did, right after Charlie was killed. And they were asking those same questions. And they were told by Charlie's security team that the. The UVU cops said they had it, that the UVU cops said that they would be patrolling the rooftop. And we heard testimony to that effect. Exactly. From the head of Charlie's security team at Turning Point usa, a man named Brian Harpool, who went on with Sean Ryan and showed the text exchanges between himself and the chief of the UVU police force. According to Harpool, and here is what Brian Harpool told Sean Ryan. Here's how him describing it.

[Megyn Kelly]

We have some correspondence with the chief of the school on that day on Monday before Charlie was killed, and why this hadn't come out and why he won't stand up like a man and admit this, I don't know. But he's watching a bunch of men lose their careers and he's okay with it. On Monday, before this correspondence went to Chief Long. Hello, Chief Long. We received this message today from the student group. There is a student roof access pretty close to where CK will be set up at the Utah Valley. The Sorensen center has a couple of staircases that go up to walkways on the roofs. He comes back and the. So for edification, the Sorensen center was the building in front of the Lucy Center. And so he, and he comes back, he says, you want access to the roof? And came back and said, I was told students have access above us. If this is true, it would be nice to either have it controlled access or allow one of my guys to be there as well if possible. He comes back in. His last correspondence was, I got you covered. What else am I to do when a command level person from an accredited police department says, I've got this area.

[David Hull]

Jeez,

[Megyn Kelly]

have you been in con.

[Sean Davis]

Who is that?

[Megyn Kelly]

That was the chief of police for the UVU Police Department. We've called him. He's never called us back. Holy shit.

[Sean Davis]

I mean, it's, it's chilling and I'd love to hear from that man directly. I'm sure he sleeps very poorly at night, asking himself why he didn't have it covered. After all, there was a separate question of whether that excused Brian Harpool and the Turning Point security team from making sure it was covered because they ultimately were responsible for Charlie's security. My own view on it, having met a bunch of those guys, not. I don't think I've met him, is that any one of them would have happily given their life to protect Charlie. Absolutely would have given their life in a heartbeat to protect Charlie. I think this guy trusted the wrong group of people. And I don't know. I've asked various members of my own security team about this sound, but it's been out there for months, just, you know, shooting the breeze, saying, what did you make of that? After the interview came out? Like, do you think that's an okay stance? Do you think he's got a point? And I have to tell you, I have yet to find the security person who thinks, you know, what am I to do when the guy says he's got it covered? Pretty much everybody. And Maybe it's just 2020 hindsight says, no, you make sure. When you're the one getting paid to protect a principal, it's your job to make sure everything is covered, and you follow up and you make sure. And 14 months after Butler, you make super sure about the roofs. And I believe that. I believe that because the first question virtually all of us asked after Charlie was killed was how could. How could he be killed from the roof 14 months after Butler?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

How.

[Sean Davis]

How could the roof be left unprotected? You know, and it looks like he did think of it. The team did think of it, and they trusted where they shouldn't have. That's how it looks to me. I'm not an expert. Not a security expert. I just know what I saw. And it's heartbreaking because, again, these guys are in the business of protection. And I know they loved Charlie. I know they did. And I know I saw them days after this happened, and not again, not him again. But the guys I saw were absolutely distraught over what had happened to him. So it's just so unfortunate. And look, it's. It's not about, you know, that Charlie's death was caused by his killer, by his killer. But anybody who's ever been exposed to a security threat had questions about how he was so exposed, you know, myself included, as his friend and as somebody who has her own security threats. And Charlie and I had spoken about the security threats that we were facing. So it's just. It's chilling to me, you know, that one did come to fruition in his life. I keep thinking about Erica telling me about how he didn't sleep well the night before. And she said he got up and Charlie, so Charlie, he got a snack. She said he had a banana and olives. Charlie was so wholesome. He was so wholesome. At Charlie's Presidential Medal of Freedom ceremony, she talked about how Charlie would only have ice cream. I think she said twice a year. It was either once a year or twice a year. But the one I think once was on his birthday and the other time was on the 4th of July he would allow himself some ice cream. He was just so wholesome. He was so committed to wellness, mental, spiritual, emotional and physical. And you do wonder whether he had some sort of a premonition before that event that, you know, his wellness was in jeopardy. We'll continue to follow it today. We expect in two hours now the hearing will resume out in Provo, Utah. And we do believe, though it's not guaranteed, that the Lance Twigs video testimony will happen today. As a reminder, we are streaming the whole thing live on our YouTube channel, YouTube.com Megan Kelly. So you can watch it there. And rest assured, if that happens or no matter what happens, we will have full coverage of the hearing and what happens this afternoon on our regular program tomorrow, as well as a deep dive on this Lance Twigs that we've been working on for a while. In the meantime, want to continue on and bring in our panel. Joining us today, we've got a lot of other news. We've got Graham Platner, whose political campaign is continuing its downward spiral. Reports now are that he could be dropping out at any moment. Expect it. And by the way, the ceasefire between the US And Iran, it's over, at least according to President Trump. He's now calling the Iranians sick people and liars and threatening more bombing. So it's not great. Here to break it all down is Sean Davis. He's CEO and co founder of the Federalist. And Saurabh Ahmari is here as well, the US editor for UnHerd. Sean. So, Rob, welcome back. Great to have you guys.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Good to be here.

[Sean Davis]

You know, I know you guys have been covering to some extent what's happening out in Provo. And Sean, that is, it's like the whole thing is just so chilling. You know, it's like we all cover legal cases all the time. We cover crime. And this one is just, it just has so many different layers to it because it was our friend. It was Charlie. Everyone knew him. Even the audience listening now felt very much like they knew him. He was a regular guest on this program. And it is tough to get immediately past questions like, why wasn't the roof patrolled? You know, it's not to take anything away from the actual killer, but it's just, you know, conservatives are being killed and they're being threatened and that these crazy leftists are celebrating it. And you think about the next one and the next one after that, and this assassination culture that's taking too many of ours, and, you know, you want to see it take anybody. But how we shore up the protection around our public figures like Charlie, who is literally irreplaceable, is obviously on the mind of many. So your thoughts on all of it?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yeah, and I'm so glad you brought that up, because I feel like it's gotten lost in a lot of the, you know, examining all the details in the trial and everything. Sourab and I were talking about this off camera before the show and talking about threats we have to deal with. And to me, it's absolutely unconscionable, and it's not talked about nearly enough that if you are a Christian, if you're a conservative or a Republican, you walk out your door every day wondering if someone's gonna try and kill you. You walk out the door every day, you go to an event and you wonder if someone's gonna try and kill you and kill your family. You talked about it yourself. You have a security team. We all have security teams. We all have to be thinking through every last little thing, every. We have to micromanage every aspect of our security. We have to start asking questions that no one should have to ask about security at hotels or conferences or things like that. I never hear this conversation among people on the left anymore. They are not walking around worrying if somebody who's hopped up on hormones and trans surgery is going to try and kill them. This seems to be a threat that is completely isolated to those of us on the right.

[David Hull]

And.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

And thank you for bringing it up, because it's totally unacceptable, and yet it's been utterly normalized. I don't know how we get back from it. But you talked about Butler. They tried to kill Trump, they killed Charlie. Instead of everyone getting together after that and saying, hey, we have a real problem with political violence on the left in this country. Everyone's devolved down into conspiracy theories on the far right, oh, Tyler didn't do it. This country did it. Meanwhile, on the left, they tell us that actually it was a right winger who did it, and it's good that it happened. This is a horrible environment that we are in politically right now, where these are the terms of conversation and these are the things we're talking about. It's an utter tragedy. And what I find so frustrating, disheartening, is I don't know where we go from here. I don't know how we get back to where we can just disagree over things without wishing everyone who disagree with us got killed or is dead.

[Sean Davis]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't tell you the number of conversations I've had over the past year before that, too, but especially since Charlie, as the death threats have escalated exponentially about fortifying every single area of our lives. Every single area. Any. Any place I go, any place I'm going to be, certainly any place we've announced publicly just in case somebody wants to kill me for my opinions. Right? Like that's what we're talking about right here. That's what Charlie's issue was. We, we're not public officials. We haven't run for office. We're not elected leaders. I'm not saying that makes it better, but it's, it's not a new thought that, like, a president might be the subject of an assassination attempt. But we're, we're podcasters, you know, we're. We're media. We're journalists. This is so bizarre. So why would somebody want to kill you, Sean Davis? Or you, Sir Abramari, or me, Megyn Kelly? For our opinions, that's why. For our opinions, it's. We've crossed over to a truly bizarrely dangerous way of living where, where this is just accepted. And, and 90% of journalists do not have the resources to even employ a security team. Most, most journalists don't make a lot of money. That would be a, an impossibility to surround themselves with, with the appropriate team. Even Charlie, you know, he had a team because he was with Turning Point. But there was. It's a nonprofit, so rep. You know, it's like there were limits. Even I was mistaken to think that Charlie had a bulletproof vest on. Even when I went out and I hosted his show with the Turning Point crew, I sat there with them. They were the ones who told me Charlie was not wearing a bulletproof vest. He was relying on that team to protect him. And even they couldn't give him presidential level protection because he's, he was a civilian, you know, he was one of us.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Yeah, the, the failure here, which you highlighted is the fact that I don't think the TPUSA security team, because when you go to a police chief and you say, hey, like we're concerned about this particular area. And he says, I've got you covered. That's pretty definitive. And as you said, Megan, if I were in the shoes of his security team, I would go to bank with that reliably. So here's a, you know, a credible police officer saying, don't worry, I've got that. And that ends up being the precisely the area from which the assassin operated. I do think. So that's a kind of failure of just, just idiocy. Right. But it's a long way from that to some of the conspiracy theories that were circulated on the hard right where it was like the Egyptian and Israeli governments and all this stuff. Right. Like we, the. The threats that we face. Although I have to say I don't have a security team, but are much more banal and intellectual. This kind. There's this specific type of what I call trans involved lefty crazy person. And he, you know, Tyler Robinson, the alleged assassin, fit that profile. There were others. There was that sort of school shooter, Catholic school in Wisconsin. I don't know if you guys remember that case. Less, less remembered, of course. But yes, that's, that's really the profile.

[Sean Davis]

Like a devil.

[John Daniel Davidson]

That's really the profile. Often there is marijuana, leftist. Yeah, marijuana use. A combination of marijuana use, sort of strange sexual attractions and ideology. And so I think that's a more productive area for the right to like talk about than, you know, conspiracy theories, to be honest.

[Sean Davis]

Well, you know what I was saying after Charlie died and I think everyone went a little crazy. I just think that watching our friend get assassinated really did a number on many people. I just like, I haven't felt totally myself since. You know, I feel like I've been a little off since and I can see it in a lot of friends, but I think many people reverted to their priors. You know, like people who had been openly fighting with Israel and Israel defenders really wanted to investigate that angle because Charlie was drifting from the Israeli cause, was expressing privately in group chats his consternation with Jewish donors who are leaning on him not to abandon Israel, not to question Israel too much. So. Right. So they did revert to their priors. You know, we, I think I speak for all three of us have done a lot of coverage on the radical trans tifas out there who have all who start with the screw loose and then in some cases add drugs to it or like obsessive gaming, which communities can be actually disturbing. Or you have layer in the furry thing which actually is also very sick. And we've seen that erupt in violence, not to mention SSRIs, which become a common thread in a lot of these. And who do they take aim at? People like us. People like Charlie. So it's like, I'm not. I'm not surprised at all, you know? I mean, the day after Charlie was murdered, that's exactly where I went. I thought it was over the trans stands, and I went on the air and said, just so you know, a man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man. There's no such thing as a trans child. You know, and said, you can't stop all of us. Like, well, if this is what this is, this is who killed him. You can't stop all of us. I just think people reverted to their priors because, I don't know, we're just getting used to this leftist violence. And so we see through it what we wanna see through it. Sean?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yeah. So I've spent, probably, I think, the last 14 years in investigative journalism. Before that, I was a chief investigator on the Hill for Tom Coburn, who is just a renowned investigator of waste and fraud. And there's a thing you learn to do when you're in investigating is that you always kind of have to start with a hypothesis. You have an idea in your head of what happened, and then from there, you have to look at all the facts, and you ask yourself, do all these facts align with this hypothesis I have? And you know what? Sometimes they add up perfectly, and you're like, okay, I nailed it. This is what happened. And then sometimes they don't. And it takes time and wisdom and discernment and experience to notice when the facts don't quite line up to be able to tell yourself, okay, that original hypothesis I had, I don't think that's correct. So what is actually able to explain all these known facts? What's the thread that runs through all of them? And what's the story that aligns with all of them? And the one in this one is not Israel or Egypt or helicopters or planes or exploding microphones. It's that we have an utter epidemic of transgender terroristic violence in this country. This wasn't the first time it happened. We have scores of examples. We had a woman who decided she was a boy go and shoot up a bunch of third graders at a Christian school in Nashville. It happened in Minnesota. It happened in Wisconsin. It is not a big leap to be like, this guy whose DNA is on everything, the guy whose text messages were everywhere, the guy who's. He's accounted for all over the campus. His parents recognized him, they turned him in, they confessed it, they have all of it in black and white. He was angry over Charlie's belief that boys can't become girls and girls can't become boys. This isn't a particularly difficult case. This isn't something where we're having to go plumb the depths of the Internet and look at this document and that document to figure out what go on. The dots basically connect themselves. It's not a revolutionary theory. This is yet one more example of left wing, transgender terroristic violence. It has to stop. We have to crack down on it. One thing that I've been frustrated by is that we have not seen antifa be dragged from their home homes, their bank accounts raided, their assets frozen and liquidated. Because this is a terrorist movement, is a demonic, violent, terroristic, ideological movement that has been very open about its aims. And we can't just sit by and wait for one more to happen and then put that person in jail. This is something we actually have to tackle head on. I had hoped it would have happened immediately after Charlie was assassinated and it wasn't. But it's never too late to start.

[Sean Davis]

And I just want to say for the record, you, you're fine criticizing Israel. You have not been some shill for Israel, nor have I. Obviously. This whole year has been very tumultuous because I've refused to do that. And I'm with you. I, I've, I've been very open minded to. If Israel controlled Tyler Robinson and made him a patsy, what the fuck do I know? Whether our government or another does that to people and uses them, I'm not, I'm open minded to that. The jfk, there's a big whole theory about that, CIA and all that. I get it, I totally get it. But at some point when we're in court, we need to see some proof that he was controlled, that there was an intervention somehow in his life. Like, we do need some evidence. And by the way, even if that's somehow lurking out there, we just haven't found it yet. Today's task is to figure out whether Tyler Robinson pulled the trigger. That is today's task. And the evidence that he did is overwhelming. It's overwhelming. I mean, it's video, it's digital. There are notes, there are pictures, there are email correspondence, text messages. There's a witness who's going to take the stand, effectively by video, his lover, who we believe is going to point the finger squarely at him and talk of his confession. His parents, we understand a trial are going to be forced if they don't volunteer to. To talk about how they were on the receiving end of what has been described as a confession. I actually just pulled that file right here because people don't believe that Tyler Robinson did confess to his parents, and they don't believe that, that he, that they heard anything from him. Here is from the criminal information filed against him. As they discussed the situation, his parents with Tyler Robinson implied that he was the shooter and stated that he couldn't go to jail and just wanted to end it. When asked why he did it, Robinson explained to his parents, there is too much evil and that Charlie Kirk spreads too much hate. They talked about Robinson turning himself in and convinced Robinson to speak with a family friend who's a retired deputy sheriff. At Robinson's father's request, the family friend met with Robinson and his parents and convinced Robinson to turn himself in. The family friend spoke to police reported telling Robinson that it would be best if he brought all the evidence with him to the sheriff's office to avoid police having to search his parents home. The family friend also asked Robinson if he had any clothes that were related to what he did. Robinson replied that he had disposed of the clothes in different areas and then he went in and did exactly that, turned himself in. That. That is what's been alleged. That is where the proof is going to take us. If there's more beyond it, I await the proof of it. I mean, I, I like you, I'm a lawyer. I want proof, I want facts, I want admissible evidence that I can then consider as a juror. And that's what I've been doing over the course of this preliminary hearing. And it's taking me in one direction right now, and that is that this is the trigger man. They have the right person. Okay, let's keep going. The Graham Platner implosion has been nothing short of epic. Epic sohreb. I mean, this guy, he had red flags all over him from the beginning. And I get why the Democrats wanted to look past them. You know, he's. They finally found somebody who seemed like a real man, you know, like, like, not like the Tim Walls fake man with the camo, you know, like man's man. And they thought, okay, this is, this is it. This is what the right wing has been saying we need to do if we want to win in places like Maine. And they just had willful blindness about the fact that it should be somebody who can wear camo credibly, but also doesn't have 25 other problematic allegations around him. And only when they had a leftist come out and say I love his politics, my, my adherence to them is the reason it took me this long to come out and tell the world he allegedly raped me, did they finally jump ship. And we are now hearing as we sit here at 1:23pm Eastern that it's a matter of moments before we get the pre taped video from Graham Platner dropping out of this Senate race. So what do you make of how we got here and where we are?

[John Daniel Davidson]

So I have two thoughts. The first is that look, after a while, as you said, Megan, once the allegations and different red flags start to pile up, the totality of them becomes hard to resist. Right. In terms of how to deal with this. Right. So if it were just this allegation, if it were just the other one, if it were just the kind of questionable tattoo, if it were just the fact that he described himself as a communist on Reddit forums, if it were just the fact that he said that he likes to, he, he likes to think of himself as raping, you know, home intruders not to enjoy it, but as an act of dominance, like any one of those things you could sort of contextualize and deal with. But the totality, you know, makes it, you begin to think, look, this is, this is the higher chamber of our legislative branch and it could be a problem. Could be a problem. That said, I will say I'm as I when we discuss that the last time I was on with Sean and Platner was on the agenda. I am deeply troubled by the larger sort of sexual culture of which I would argue both he and his partners are victims in various ways where there are no guardrails except after the fact accusations that are very hard to refute. There was no police report at the time. I think it's worth watching Mika Brzezinski's questioning on Morning Joe of the Political Reporter. She does a very forensic job and yes, lots of people said that they wish she had done the same thing with Christine Blasey Ford. And that's a fair point. Nevertheless, it's worth watching because it's a, it's a rare case where she like puts on her journalist hat and becomes very aggressive and questioning. And it's worth watching that because even this set of allegations, it, look, it's bad, but it's not, there are issues, you know, there's, there's talk of Instagram messages in which she reportedly confronted him, the new accuser, or the more Recent one about, like, his behavior that night. And then the journalist is pressed, like, did you see these? And she's. And the journalist says, no, you know, she couldn't find a record of them.

[Sean Davis]

She said she deleted them.

[David Hull]

Them.

[John Daniel Davidson]

All right, again, perfectly plausible. But, you know, when you're talking about a. An allegation that can not only derail someone's campaign, but essentially ruin their life, I think the evidentiary standard has to be high. And so I have my discomfort with the kind of larger sexual and sort of evidentiary culture that's leading to this. However, to go back to my initial point, again, if it were just the one thing, I would be a brand Platner, Bitter Ender. But because it's not, and because there are so many other character red flags, and this is the United States Senate, you know, I think his candidacy becomes unsustainable.

[Sean Davis]

I got you. I totally understand. I think you're in a very reasonable place. I mean, I confess that I saw Lindsey Fifield, who was the woman who they did feature, who the three of us discussed when this hit in the New York Times. She's a conservative, and she dated Graham Platner. Obviously, you know, her politics didn't make her not want to date him, so clearly they're not making her want to sink him now. But many of the critics of that New York Times article that first espoused some of his female problems went out, dismissed her because she's a conservative. Oh, she's a conservative operative. But she's out there with. With Jake Tapper now, and she's talking about Graham Platner. I don't know if we actually have this one, but she's talking about how he allegedly would take off the condom. Forgive the graphic descriptions here, but, like, right before and, like, surreptitiously remove the condom. And I'm thinking to my. And then I'm like, well, that's not great. I mean, that's. You know, you do need consent. Then she Sundays repeatedly, maybe six times, okay, if this is important to you, after your partner does this to you, once you're either out or, you know, like, it's very strange to come back all this time later, years later, and for the three of us, you know, Shaun Davis of the Federalist, so Rabba Mari of UnHerd, and Megyn Kelly of the MK show, to be litigating whether he took the condom off or not and how many times it was. And was there implied consent because she'd let him get away with it. Times 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 so on. 6, like where are we that we're now, you know, evaluating that stuff in assessing who belongs in the U.S. senate.

[John Daniel Davidson]

And I know it's not my turn, but again, how is he supposed to refute that? Like, like it's the kind of thing where it's so he said, she said years later.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Right.

[John Daniel Davidson]

And it, they both are based on, they both say these are based on recollections or compilations of memories and so on. It's impossible to refute. And so again, as a father of a boy, I want to hold him accountable. And it certainly clearly doesn't belong in the Senate.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Right.

[John Daniel Davidson]

The totality of the accusations is too much. But at the same time, the entire sort of culture we've built in which this sort of accusation can derail a life and a career needs to be reconsidered. It won't be in the context of Graham Platner, but it's a larger, like national and cultural project we need to have. It involves parents, it involves government, it involves pastors and so on. It just as you could tell, I get kind of angry about this, kind of where it's like he's, he's supposed to refute the condom allegations 12 years later. Come on, come on.

[Sean Davis]

How? I know like how. And even with this woman, this latest accuser who's come forward to say that he went into her home, you know, she says, she talks about it. She doesn't say, he raped me, I told him no and he forced me. She says something like, he's violated the language of consent repeatedly.

[John Daniel Davidson]

It's like consensually careless is the language she used.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah. Consensually care. Like, what does that mean? You know, I get it. He seems like a scumbag. I'm not gonna lie. I have no problem with him getting booted as the Democratic nominee for Senate. None whatsoever. But I share some of your same concerns, John. What do you make of it?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yeah, to me it's just like a story that's a clown car of terrible judgment involving every single person. And I'm going to apologize for coming across is the prude here, but we actually have this amazing institution in America. I call it marriage. And within marriage, you know, sex is normal. That's what it's designed for. You can, you can do things and you don't have to worry about being accused of rape or non consent. And I think when people go down this path, when they're being promiscuous, when you know, they're with a guy like Graham Platner, who's obviously a dirtbag that they've had a long time sexual relationship with. Bad things happen there. Okay? So I'm not trying to be judgmental. I'm trying to, like, tell people that when you go down that road, you are setting yourself up for, for bad outcomes. Graham Platner, you're going to be accused of rape later. The women who are now talking about this stuff publicly, you had to go through that, number one. Now you're deciding to talk about it publicly. So, like, your husbands get to learn all about it now. I bet that's super fun for them. It's in the news, so your kids are going to read about it one day. Does anyone think that everything that happened here has been good for anyone involved? No. They all made terrible decisions. Okay? Sleeping with Graham Platner, bad decision. Being promiscuous before marriage or ever, bad decision. Talking in great detail about your sex life to the New York Times, bad decision. Telling Jake Tapper about condom use in your sex life, that's a bad decision. It's just terrible judgment all the way around. And by the way, Democrat voters, you voted for this guy knowing what was on going, that he had a Nazi tattoo and that he got a little handsy and maybe, you know, kind of rapey, and you voted for him anyway. I hate everyone in this story. Everyone is an idiot. Everyone has terrible judgment. And can we just go back to all making good decisions that we all know are good? Is that so hard? Apparently it is.

[Sean Davis]

All I can think about is Eric Swalwell and the women who came forward against him who were like, and he date rape drugged me and then raped me. And then I called him a year later and asked him if he wanted to get drinks. But I'm, I'm definitely a victim. I'm really sad about my victimhood, but it's like, and then I did it again a year later. But I'm telling you, he gave me a date rape drug and raped me. And that should mean he lose. It's like, I'm sorry, but what person gets back together with her alleged druggist rapist and just, you know, because he could write me a recommendation. Like, I, I, I have a really hard time swallowing that whole thing. Not that swell. Was not a dirtbag. He is. But in any event, that's where we are. He's leaving the race. What's going to happen there? Is this, is this good for Republicans because a flawed candidate is now exiting Sean, or is this bad for Republicans? No, reverse that. Is it good For Republicans because a flawed candidate is exiting the Dem race and they can replace him with somebody better who could more easily take down Susan Collins. Or is it. Is it. Is it good for Republicans because scandal. They're a hot mess. Whoever comes in now has a short Runway. And then there's to. To. To her credit in this context, plain old boring Susan Collins on the other end.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yeah, I've got bad news for Democrats here and that you. We were never going to beat Susan Collins anyway. So, like, they've gone through this whole ridiculous charade with this idiot who wasn't gonna beat her even if he wasn't a total freak show. He wasn't gonna beat her if he was awesome. So it's just like this voluntary sepu. That the Democrat party has put them through. In the long run, it's probably better for Republicans to see this total CF going on with them. They can't do anything right now. They're gonna overrule their own primary voters and airdrop someone in that they didn't want, which is exactly what they did when they put Biden aside even though everyone knew he was a vegetable, and then installed Kamala. So, like, yeah, long run, it probably helps Republicans, but Democrats, I know, maybe it's actually good news for them. It doesn't matter what you're gonna do. She's gonna win anyway. So God bless and have fun.

[David Hull]

Sorry.

[Sean Davis]

Sean is on a roll. You guys both are on a roll today. She brought the heat today. I appreciate it. They are looking at this guy to replace Graham Platner, who's got his own issues according to. What was it? Progressive democracy or progressive victory? This other guy who they're looking at has some alleged history of throwing a bottle at a woman and hitting her. So, like, they're struggling to find somebody who they could really sell. I. They are facing a short Runway. And today's the daily podcast from the New York Times was all about what. What Sean just said. They're worried on Team Blue about the fact that it was grassroots. It was grassroots. The lie they told us about Kamala and that switcheroo didn't stick and that they won't be able to get away with that twice.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Well, luckily in Texas, they're. They're running a former vegan who believes God is non binary. So that. I mean, this is.

[Sean Davis]

He's not a vegan. He put out a picture of him eating a big wing.

[John Daniel Davidson]

I said former, but yeah, sure.

[Sean Davis]

Look, I mean, he's a vegan, you

[John Daniel Davidson]

know, look, this is a. This is an Easy year for, for Democrats or that's what we were told. Right. Inflation is high, there's an unpopular quasi war afoot in the Middle East. And also just generally voters tend to punish the incumbent part party at midterms. So like, so easy to just run like normal nominees. Like how hard is it to find someone for Texas? I'm talking about James Del Rico. Rico, who doesn't have crazy heterodox views as a Christian right in Maine. I think in all fairness, and I say this is a matter of equity. I'm not a Democrat, but if I were, I would say Graham Platner should be allowed kind of pretty exclusive king making authority because he won so overwhelmingly in the primaries. So to like for the, for the local Republican. Sorry, for the local Democratic Party to sort of parachute their own choice in someone who has within the spectrum of the left views that are completely contrary to Platinum. I think that's somehow worse than running Platner as, as, as flawed and damaged as he is. So that's, I think, I think that's the general point is that, you know, and if, if I were on his team, I would say like, yeah, you know, you want to, you want to make it painless. Like there has to be serious consultations. But also I think from a small D Democratic matter, the guy did win, win overwhelmingly and much of it was out there when voters went to the, to the, to the polls and chose him anyway as the nominee.

[Sean Davis]

So virtually all of it.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Virtually all of it. That's right. That's right. So let him like, let him have his, let him have his say.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah, because they're now, they're warring. His team wants to say in who the replacement would be and the party's like, F you, you're, you're too rapey. He, to use your word, Sean, that to, to be involved. The guy who I mentioned who allegedly has some, some accusation of throwing a bottle at a woman and hitting her is Troy Jackson. He's a logger by trade and a former state senator who lost last month's Democratic primary for Maine governor. And he submitted a filing with the Federal Election Commission on Tuesday, setting up an exploratory committee to replace Platner. So there they certainly seem to be looking at this guy, Troy Jackson. But I can't imagine why they'd want to replace one who's got a woman problem with another who's got a woman problem. I guess it's just going to be fun to watch how they handle this problem because it's their problem. For once it's their problem and not about a Republican behaving badly with women or otherwise. Okay, there's more to discuss, including Carmelo Anthony, who's just filed an appeal and is asking for the judge who oversaw his case to be removed. This guy would normally handle any post conviction motions, not the appeal that's going to go up to the appellate court. But I'll, we'll explain why they're trying to get this guy bounced off of the case altogether. And also there's the matter of Iran, where the ceasefire is officially off, says President Trump. Stand by our sponsor. The Electronic Payments Coalition says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet, which you know. And now they're messing with your credit card, too. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack. And that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases much more affordable. We all love that. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more about this whole [e-mail] and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Buy gold and put some silver in your pocket. I know what you're thinking. Everything is so expensive right now. How am I going to buy gold? But listen, we got to talk about this. One thing you can control right now that does not cost you anything out of pocket is the ability to diversify your retirement savings. Birch Gold Group can help you convert an old 401k from a previous employer or an IRA into a physical IRA in gold. By the way, you can do it in whole or in part. If you just want to, like hedge your bets and say I'm going to take part of it, whatever, you pick the number and put that in gold. Just so I'm not entirely in the stock market, a lot of people would say that's a very smart move and it's something that can be a hedge for you against inflation. And right now, Birchgold is going to give you a special America 251 ounce silver round for every $10,000 you purchase by July 10th. That's four days away, so don't waste time. Think about this. Ten years ago you can get an out. You could get an ounce of gold for about 1,200 bucks today it would cost you around 4,500. So look, look at that markup. That's in gold. You missed that period if you weren't in gold. But you don't have to miss the 10 years coming at us now, right? Where is this going to be in 10 years from right now, from today? You should be on the positive end of that swing this time around. And you can do so by texting MK to the number 989898. That'll help you take advantage of free America 250 silver with qualifying purchase before July 10th. Again, text MK to the number 989890 today.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum. They're sick people.

[Sean Davis]

They.

[John Daniel Davidson]

They're led by sick people.

[Megyn Kelly]

And they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people. Steve Witkoff. Jared Kushner. But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them.

[John Daniel Davidson]

They're liars.

[Megyn Kelly]

We make a deal and they will. If I make a deal with, with him, we have a deal and he goes out. He talks, we make a deal. Everyone's agreed no nuclear weapon. We make a deal. They go outside, talk to the press. They say, we never even talked about it. There's something wrong with them.

[John Daniel Davidson]

They're cuckoo.

[Megyn Kelly]

As far as I'm concerned, it's over.

[Sean Davis]

President Trump on Iran and the ceasefire, as you heard, now being over. Basically what happened was, you know, the Strait was supposed to be open. They bombed three ships in the Strait of Hormuz because they didn't like the route it was taking closer to Oman. I don't. Who cares? They bombed three ships. Trump got pissed. He dropped bombs on them. Then they dropped bombs as they had been during the war, on our military bases in Bahrain and Kuwait. And now Trump's angry, and you heard him there saying, they're cuckoo. They're. They're crazy. I can't deal with these people. The ceasefire is over and there may be more bombs coming their way now, which is not great. And I'm back to, are we. Are we back in the escalation trap? Shaun Davis, like, where does this go? Because this is. This is really not great. And our pals are more neocon, hawkish pals over on Fox. And people at cnn, too, are, I mean, salivating this morning. They're so excited that this thing may be getting rejiggered back into action. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Sohrab Ahmari]

They are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. It's. The whole situation is good. Thank you. Is. It's just kind of absurd. But I don't think we are on this permanent escalation ladder, is the foreign policy dorks might say, because Iran can't really escalate beyond taking potshots. I'm also not even sure the people who he was negotiating with may even be aware of it. Like, I don't think think we have a good full understanding of command and control over there. We killed so many of their leaders. Was this, you know, a directive from the central government? Are these people factions within the Iranian military who just want the war to go on because it strengthens their hand? I have no idea. But this is kind of like the maximum of what Iran is able to do. And I think it's especially interesting.

[Sean Davis]

Why do you say that? Why can't they just close the strait again like they did before? Before. And that's. And put us back into that same economic pain that led us to want a deal in the first place?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

They may be able to try that. But what's interesting here, I think, is where Trump is and what he's doing this week. So he is in Turkey. He's meeting with NATO the Strait of Hormuz is not something that's particularly essential for America. We don't get most of our oil through there, but Europe does. And NATO exists to protect Europe. It doesn't really exist to protect the United States. And so the fact that this is kind of bubbling up now, it strikes me as a largely European problem, that this is a problem that NATO and Europe are going to need to.

[Sean Davis]

We caused it, but they have to fix it. I honestly, I'm fine with that. I got to be honest. It's like the Pottery Barn thing. Like, I went in, I handled stuff, I broke this stuff. If I got out of the store and I'm already on the subway home, does it have to be my problem? I kind of share that view. I've got to be honest. Like, sorry, we broke it, but we did actually bomb a lot of things in there that will wind up potentially protecting Europe in some way, I guess. So, Rabb, is the argument. I don't know. What do you think of all this?

[John Daniel Davidson]

I think the Iranians are overplaying a good hand, right? They had this capacity, which they didn't even weren't fully aware of it, which is to choke this global energy point, unfortunately, because commodity markets are global and they're sort of. Oil is fungible. If you squeeze supply at one point, you do get pain in the American consumer as well, as actually is reflected in inflation numbers here and at the gas prices during the kind of peak of the war. But be that as it may, they recognize they have this capacity, but they're now overplaying their hand. They want full control over the Strait of Hormuz, and the memorandum understanding does allow them to have of a sense say over it. But if there are disputes, there are supposed to be mechanisms for resolving it that don't involve just firing at civilian ships and asking questions later. You know, I joined the vice President as a reporter on his negotiations in Switzerland, and he touted this kind of communication link that was supposed to emerge between the United States and Iran so that they could de escalate things. And I think Van Lance is right here. He says he has tweeted since then. Like, they know they can pick up a phone, and if they have an issue, there is a negotiating table and we can resolve it. So this kind of behavior where you just fire at random civilian ships, it's unjust, it's irresponsible, and ultimately, you know, what the United States can do, I don't think will ever return to a big escalatory war ever again. I mean, or I shouldn't say ever. But it seems unlikely. There's very little after appetite for it from the president on down. But what, the US can just reimpose its blockade and just squeeze Iran at a distance without getting into the sort of firing, you know, just full on war. And Iran is at some point, although

[Sean Davis]

Trump did say we are going to be hitting them again tonight and the US Is clawing back its oil. Yeah. But it's waivers that we offered to them as part of this deal, which you would expect. Like that's we said all along, if you behave badly, we're going to take back some of the relief that we're about to give you.

[John Daniel Davidson]

Yeah, that's like skirmishes or taking Pacha. It's not quite the same as a full war. So again, I think the blame here lies mostly with the Iranian regime and the fact that again, there was a whole mechanism set up so that if you have complaints about how the memorandum is being implemented or how it should be implemented, we're across the table from each other and we talk shock. So, you know, if the United States can impose a great deal of pain on Iran without, without it really being full on war. So if they want to go down this route, let them and they're going to feel the pain.

[Sean Davis]

If you have complaints, please press 1 pound. Don't blow up the phone line entirely. There are other methods to take care of these problems. All right, before we go, I've got to show you Sunny Hostin of the View. It was the big Fourth of July celebration. Celebration. I'm sure you guys had a great time with your family, as did we. And this is what Sunny Hostin's thinking about these days. And with an American flag on that cap, you might as well have a hood on. You might as well have a hood on because that's what it looks like, that's what it feels like. But you say this is the best nation. The best nation for who? Yeah, it's the best when you say it's the best nation. The best nation for who? Because if we are celebrating 250 years, what are we exactly celebrating is what I want to know. And so I'm really glad that picture was taken because that picture is how we feel walking into many rooms down the street. That picture is how we feel. And nobody will believe us. So look at that picture and understand how it feels. You never should be made to feel like that. It's wrong that this woman is. And I said this on this show many, many years ago because this is my 10th year on the show. And I said there are times when I walk into a community and I see American flags all over the community and I suddenly feel unsafe because there is a section of this country that has co opted the American flag and they equate being an American or an American flag with white supremacy. And that should never be ever the symbol of white supremacy. But they have weaponized. Shut up. All right, Sean, you want to take that in the minute we have left?

[Sohrab Ahmari]

Yeah. We actually have a rule in our HOA that every house has to have a flag to make sure sunny hosting doesn't show up. You know, we do it for our protection. Everyone, everyone's good. You have to have at least three. You got to have one in the backyard, on the mailbox and in the front of the house. Because you can't be too sure these days. She might just show up.

[Sean Davis]

She's. She lives in a palace. This woman is one of the richest women in America and yet she's still. She's going to be targeted. This is her home. She's gonna be targeted just because of the color of her skin. Cause you can see how unfair America has been to her. Guys. Love talking to you. Thanks for being here, Sohrab. Sean, you too. We'll do it again soon. All the best. And we'll have much more tomorrow on the Tyler Robinson hearing. In the meantime, check it [e-mail] Megyn Kelly. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda. And no fellow

[Sohrab Ahmari]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Sean Davis]

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[Sohrab Ahmari]

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