Trump Storms 60, Michelle's Racial Complaints, and Legit Case Against Letitia James, with Walter Kirn and Sam Antar | Ep. 1185

Summary

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The Megyn Kelly Show

Episode 1185: Trump Storms 60, Michelle's Racial Complaints, and Legit Case Against Letitia James
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: Walter Kirn (editor at large, County Highway, co-host of America This Week), Sam Antar (white collar fraud expert)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Megyn Kelly Show centers on the media treatment of Donald Trump’s latest 60 Minutes interview, the enduring grievance narratives of Michelle Obama, dramatic changes at CBS News, and a deep-dive legal analysis into the federal indictment against New York Attorney General Letitia James. Megyn is joined by commentator and writer Walter Kirn, and later by financial fraud investigator Sam Antar. The show is critical, irreverent, and heavy on media critique, with a particular focus on hypocrisy and double standards in coverage of public figures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump on 60 Minutes: Media Rituals and Bias

• [04:13 – 33:16]
  • Trump returns to 60 Minutes after previously suing CBS for an allegedly misleading Kamala Harris edit. Norah O’Donnell attempts to maintain objectivity in the interview, but Megyn and Walter argue her bias "seeps out."
  • Media Pressure: O’Donnell’s approach is described as awkward, stuck between appeasing new CBS leadership (Bari Weiss) and her anti-Trump colleagues.
  • Sample Exchange: O’Donnell constantly interrupts Trump (healthcare, ICE raids), leading to critiques about the lack of substantive inquiry.
  • ICE, Immigration, and Enforcement: Trump insists ICE raids “haven’t gone far enough.” O’Donnell paints a narrative focused on harsh tactics against non-criminals, which Trump rebuts.
  • Media Double Standards: Megyn argues these segments never feature victims of immigrant crime, nor do they contextualize violent acts against ICE.
  • “Political Retribution” Narrative: O'Donnell presses Trump about indictments of opponents (Comey, Bolton, Letitia James), framing them as possible revenge, not based on possible crimes.
    • Walter: “Isn’t all legal punishment retribution in some sense?... They deserve to be punished for all of us.” (17:21)
  • CBS and New Leadership: Extended commentary on the internal changes at CBS News due to new leadership under Bari Weiss—suggesting a frantic, unstable environment for mainstream journalists.
  • Clip that Didn’t Air: Trump discusses 60 Minutes settling his lawsuit, emphasizing the newfound access to unedited presidential interview transcripts.

Notable Quotes:

• Megyn Kelly [06:42]: “Oh God, you’re annoying. Isn’t she annoying? She’s so annoying. Well, doesn’t it give you a headache?”
• Walter Kirn [07:28]: “She’s caught between Bari Weiss and a hard place.”
• Trump [09:16]: “No, I think they haven’t gone far enough because we’ve been held back by the liberal judges.”
• Walter Kirn [17:21]: “Isn’t all legal punishment retribution in some sense?... If you punish someone who has committed crimes, I suppose it’s retribution, but it’s retribution on behalf of the people of the United States.”

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2. Trump vs. Zoran Mamdani & “Leftwing Trump” Tropes

• [24:28 – 27:29]
  • Norah O’Donnell raises the idea of Zoran Mamdani (“a communist”) as the “leftwing Trump.”
  • Trump’s cheeky retort: “I’m a much better looking person than him.” (24:43)
  • Trump says if it came down to a “communist” or “bad Democrat” running New York, “I’ll pick the bad Democrat all the time.” (25:12)
  • Walter and Megyn ridicule the media’s lazy habit of “some people say…” questioning as journalistically weak.

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3. Churn at CBS News & Media Critique

• [33:16 – 51:16]
  • Discussion of CBS News staff departures: Scott Pelley potentially leaving, John Dickerson’s exit, and Gail King’s celebrity priorities.
  • Megyn and Walter mock Michelle Kaczynski’s infamous canoe flood broadcast and her public disdain for MAGA dinner guests.
  • Media bubble: “As a reporter, to act surprised like this shows you’re not much of a reporter. You just assume everybody of a certain social class thinks a certain way.” (Walter Kirn, 48:09)

Memorable Moment:

• Michelle Kaczynski’s fake canoeing on air, lampooned by Matt Lauer. [42:02]

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4. Michelle Obama’s “Racial Grievance” Narrative

• [55:09 – 68:01]
  • Segment focuses on Michelle Obama’s public statements about oppressive expectations for Black women’s hair and lack of “grace” as First Lady.
  • Megyn argues this is a universal female experience, not specific to race, and challenges the idea that the Obamas were not celebrated.
  • Walter: “No one in America has their natural hair except Dog the Bounty Hunter.”
  • The hosts accuse Obama of historical revisionism, especially for younger generations unaware of the positive reception the Obamas received.
  • Michelle Obama [60:31]: “We didn’t get the grace that I think some other families have gotten.”
  • Megyn & Walter: The Obamas were “universally celebrated… treated like Camelot reincarnate.”

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5. Kamala Harris Flubs and Interview Dodge

• [74:52 – 81:22]
  • A tough interview with Australia’s ABC: Harris is pressed on Biden’s frailties and dodges; staff step in to end the interview. Walter describes it as “dodging a nuclear bomb” by not electing Harris as President.
  • The moment illustrates questions over Harris’s “presence or the confidence” under real scrutiny.

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6. Letitia James Federal Indictment Deep Dive

• [86:04 – 110:06]
  • Guest Expert: Sam Antar, former fraudster turned white collar fraud investigator, breaks down the financial and legal facts of Letitia James’ federal indictment for bank fraud and false statements.
  • Key Points:
    • James received a mortgage for a “second home” but reported it as an “investment property.”
    • IRS filings and bank filings are inconsistent; she can’t claim personal use to mortgage and zero personal use to IRS.
    • Legal precedent (US v. Wells) holds that material misrepresentation alone constitutes fraud; reliance or bank harm is not required.
    • Media’s claim of a weak case is inaccurate—case law and documentation indicate serious exposure for James.
    • Patterns of similar misstatements in her financial disclosures for other properties.
  • Discussion of Media Spin: Sam and Megyn emphasize that media is intentionally confusing the facts; case is stronger than portrayed.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Antar [101:17]: “Every answer she gives causes another problem.”
• Megyn Kelly [108:19]: “Don’t believe what the media is telling you. This actually is more complicated… If anything, she wasn’t allowed to rent it out for more than 182 days… Which fraud do you want?”
• Sam Antar [109:30]: “She should conduct herself with class. She’s got no class. And that’s what I have to say.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)

• On Norah O’Donnell’s interviewing:

  • Megyn Kelly [06:42]: “Oh God, you’re annoying. Isn’t she annoying? She’s so annoying.”
  • Walter Kirn [07:28]: “She’s caught between a Bari Weiss and a hard place.”

• On Media Hype and Revisionism:

  • Walter Kirn [17:21]: “Isn’t all legal punishment retribution in some sense?... That’s who these laws protect. They don’t protect Donald Trump.”
  • Megyn Kelly [61:12]: “Everything is a grievance with this woman. And the nerve to be like, oh, we didn’t get as much grace. They were on every magazine cover… treated like Camelot reincarnate.”
  • Walter Kirn [68:01]: “They are one of the most golden couples in American history… acting like they had to cross a Ku Klux Klan, you know, line of hooded cross burners to get into the White House.”

• On Letitia James Case:

  • Sam Antar [101:17]: “If she’s counting the relatives… as ‘personal days,’ then she has misstated facts to the IRS. If not, then she’s violated the mortgage.”
  • Megyn Kelly [108:19]: “Don’t believe what the media is telling you. This actually is more complicated a case than it looks.”

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Trump’s 60 Minutes Interview Recap & Analysis: [04:13 – 33:16]
• CBS Media Upheaval, Staff Turnover: [33:16 – 51:16]
• Michelle Obama’s Hair & “Grievance” Narrative: [55:09 – 68:01]
• Kamala Harris Australian Interview Dodge: [74:52 – 81:22]
• Letitia James Indictment Explained (feat. Sam Antar): [86:04 – 110:06]

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Language & Tone

The overall tone is punchy, irreverent, and deeply skeptical of mainstream media and establishment narratives. Megyn and Walter frequently use sarcasm and dismissive humor (“Skizophrenic,” “Game knows game”) while aiming for detailed, legalistic discussion with Sam Antar. The show consistently critiques double standards, hypocrisy, and revisionism, often suggesting the press is actively misleading its audience.

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Takeaway

This episode delivers a sweeping critique of media partisanship around Trump coverage, exposes the persistent sense of aggrievement in Obama-era narratives, and offers a detailed, technical rebuttal to common media claims about Letitia James’s indictment. The conversation is rich with legal insight, media analysis, and quotable skepticism, making the episode valuable for listeners interested in politics, law, and the intersection of media and public accountability.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org try angel stuff for your tushy. It's made by angels Soft and strong. Budget friendly. The choice is to pick up a pack today. Angel Soft Soft and strong Circle. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and happy Monday. Did you enjoy your sunlight this morning? I gotta say I liked my sunlight. I gonna have it for 30 days and then it will be pitch black again in the morning and the evening. That's life in the Northeast under daylight savings time. Thank you all for emailing in on your thoughts on daylight savings time. The email is meganaganekelly.com as a few key races across the country inch closer to election Day, Democrats plan is to talk about one thing. Donald Trump. And now we learn that they are planning on taking him on not just in advance of Tuesday, but but for the next three years with Barack Obama, who left office almost nine years ago. Um, they tried that. You know, we tried that. Don't you think I would have tried that? Name that movie. Don't you think I would have tried that? Name that movie. That's today's movie trivia. We tried that. Most Democrats should be reminding themselves in advance of Kamala Harris running for president literally almost a year ago today. How'd that work out? How'd that work? Did they rush to the polls? Was it enough to get her over the top? They did the double Obama. They had Michelle and Barack didn't, didn't go so well. And I'm not sure he's their solution, but we'll talk about it in one sec. Plus, President Trump sitting down with 60 Minutes last night arguing ice raids have not gone far enough. That's not what Norah o' Donnell wanted to hear and that he's much more attractive than Zoran Mamdani. Plus some more that was not aired on the broadcast. We'll show it to you and Michelle Obama back in the news with a special on abc. The style, the power, the look and the complaining. As Stephen L. Miller on X, the best Twitter follower. As I've told you many times, not to be confused with Stephen Miller, the presidential advisor, also a good follow and a brilliant man, Stephen L. Miller said something to the effect of it seems we've disappointed the Obamas again. That's exactly it. Once again, we've fallen short of what Michelle Obama expects of us. We're deeply sorry. Deeply not okay. We'll get to that, too. Joining me today, Walter Kern, editor at large of county highway and co host of the America this week podcast streaming November 16th on Paramount. Plus it is the return of Landman, TV's biggest phenomenon from Taylor Sheridan, co creator of Yellowstone. Academy Award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back as Tommy Norris and managing higher stakes than ever before. It features an all star cast including Academy Award nominees Demi Moore, Andy Garcia and Sam Elliott. In the wake of his former boss's passing, tensions come to a head as Tommy and Demi Moore's character Cami Miller struggle to maintain control of emtech's oil. And with his father, played by Sam Elliott, coming back into his life, Tommy must juggle both of his roles as an oil man and a family man as pressure builds and his worlds collide. Do not miss the hit series everyone is talking about. Landman's new season starts streaming November 16th on only on Paramount. Plus Walter, welcome back. Great to have you.

[Walter Kern]

Great to be here.

[Megyn Kelly]

I can't wait to talk about all of those things. But we're, we're going to kick it off with 60 Minutes where Trump returned after having successfully sued them for what he said was a misleading edit on their interview of Kamala Harris. And they wound up settling the case, much to the consternation of many inside the CBS News organization. They got over it. So he sits with Norah o'. Donnell. And I have to tell you, to me, it was very interesting watching Norah o' Donnell try to pretend she's just a totally fair, earnest, objective reporter. With Donald Trump. It was seeping out. She loathes him. But watching her even try to pretend was fascinating because clearly she's gonna be taken behind the Barry Weiss woodshed, which is a great woodshed if she doesn't get in line. And our friend Barry is not really taking any prisoners over there. People are getting fired left and right. We'll talk about it in a sec. But Nora o' Donnell doesn't want to be on the list. She already lost her gig as CBS News evening anchor. Now she's just being a correspondent on 60, which is fine, but she just, she doesn't wanna lose that. Then she's out to pasture. She loses that job. So she's, she did her level best to act like she was nonpartisan. But I'll just give you a flavor of how it went between the two of them when the interview started kicking off SOT1A.

[Donald Trump]

But they have to let the country. And you know what they can do? All they have to do is raise five hands. We don't need all of them.

[Norah O'Donnell]

But. So you're saying your plan is. But, Mr. President, with all due respect, you've been talking about fixing the health.

[Donald Trump]

Care insurance because of the Democrats.

[Norah O'Donnell]

But since 2015, you've said you'd fix.

[Donald Trump]

Much better health care.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Where is that plan?

[Donald Trump]

I'm willing to work with the Democrats on it.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Even here in Florida has the highest number of residents on Obamacare in the country.

[Donald Trump]

And I'm saying we can fix it.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Nora, you have helped end these government shutdowns in the past when it came about.

[Megyn Kelly]

And you did it by bringing very good at it. You brought members.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not going to do it by extortions.

[Norah O'Donnell]

So then what happens on November 15th when the trips don't get a paycheck?

[Donald Trump]

Schumer is a basket case. We're doing really well.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Can I ask you, Mr. President, on that point, though, when the stock market is doing well, that doesn't affect everybody? Not everybody's invested in the stock market, but there have been grocery prices.

[Donald Trump]

401S. People are 401ks. Their 401ks are double what they were a year ago.

[Norah O'Donnell]

But for people that don't have 401ks or not invested in the stock market, but they've seen their grocery prices go up, inflation.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, God, you're annoying. Isn't she annoying? She's so annoying. Well, doesn't it give you a headache?

[Walter Kern]

I feel schizophrenic now. She is annoying. The problem is that she's caught between a Bari Weiss and a hard place. Because if she goes at all soft on Donald Trump, then all of the, you know, people like Don Winslow and others on Twitter, the hardcore party disciplinarians will say, oh, she, you know, she bent the knee to the evil Barry Weiss. And then she won't be able to get a job at all if she's fired, which could easily happen.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. They're dropping like flies.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah. These people have to be thinking about their next employer, Ms. Now, or whatever it is going to be called.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you. That's right. So Norah o' Donnell goes out there and for most of the exchange, I felt uncomfortable because she just sort of tried to look like an ingenue, you know, like. But Mr. President, Mr. President. But she. Every time he tried to make a point, she stepped on him. Can't have Donald Trump making points on 60 after all. And here was one he did manage to get out where she tried to press him on the. The horrible, terrible ICE raids. I mean, the narrative coming out of Team Blue right now from Barack Obama on down, is that we're running around kidnapping American citizens in the streets with masked ICE agents, and then you never see them again. Those are lies. We are not. It is not true. The piece about Americans is a lie. The Americans who have been deported by ICE were deported because they are children whose illegal mothers got deported. And then they ask the mothers, would you like your kids to remain here with some family members since they are American citizens, or would you like to take them with you since you are their legal guardian? Mom. And the moms have said, I'm taking them with me. So they got to go, too. And now that's translated into they're arresting American citizens. Okay, that's not, it's not what's happening. The American citizens who are being arrested, quote, in the streets, by the way, are the ones who are behaving terribly against ICE agents and, and at ICE arrests who commit crimes like assault or battery or trespass or vandalism. Same things you or I would be arrested for if we committed them in the street. In any event, she asks him whether These horrible, terrible ICE raids have gone too far.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Sut1Americans have been watching videos of ICE tackling a young mother, tear gas being used in a Chicago residential neighborhood, and the smashing of car windows. Have some of these raids gone too far?

[Donald Trump]

No, I think they haven't gone far enough because we've been held back by the. By the judges, by the liberal judges that were put in by Biden and by Obama.

[Norah O'Donnell]

You're okay with those tactics?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, because you have to get the people out. You know, you have to look at the people. Many of them are murderers. Many of them are people that were thrown out of their countries because they were, you know, criminals.

[Norah O'Donnell]

But a lot of the people that your administration has arrested and deported aren't violent criminals. Landscapers, nannies, construction workers, landscapers, farm workers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, look, look, the family of landscapers.

[Donald Trump]

And I need farmers more than anybody. Okay?

[Norah O'Donnell]

Is it your intent to deport people who do not have a criminal record?

[Donald Trump]

We have to start off with a policy, and the policy has to be, you came into the country illegally, you're going to go out. However, you've also seen, you're going to go out, we're going to work with you, and you're going to come back into our country legally.

[Megyn Kelly]

Walter, by the way not asked anything about the attacks on ICE agents who are being shot at, who have actual bounties on their heads, who are uniformly dragged by outlets like CBS unfairly every night.

[Walter Kern]

Well, I mean, you know, possession is 9, 10 of the law. They say, you know, if you can get something into your possession, it's hard to get it back from you. You. I guess migration is easier when you flood over and you go across, you know, jungles and deserts and so on. These people, just to get here have been through much worse than they're being put through to leave. First of all, they have the option of complying, which I'm sure you don't. Bust the glass if somebody's complying. Those videos come from people who are resisting. So it's always going to be ugly when you have to undo something that, you know, a law that wasn't paid attention to in the first place, it's going to be doubly ugly. Why can't they see that it wasn't, it wasn't Donald Trump who forced them to come to the country, and it isn't Donald Trump who's forcing them to resist the deportation that is apparently legal. So what videos have to do with it? I, I don't know. I'm sure. And, and to call them landscapers and so on. I mean, Charles Manson was a songwriter, songwriter Charles Manson in jail. They are finding the most optimistic and rosiest way to portray the case of the legal illegals and the. They're trying to portray him in the absolute worst light. I mean, if we show, if we showed videos of some of these criminals at their worst and, you know, use those to illustrate the problem, I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot. But instead we get, we get the edge cases of the deportations.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exactly right. Exactly right. Rather than talking to us about Lake and Riley or Jocelyn Nagare or Rachel, was it Moran down in the southeast who was raped and assaulted and murdered with her? She had five kids. No, we don't. Nora didn't spend time on that. And in fact, I think we know why, because she doesn't seem to have much of a problem with immigration, illegal immigration, or at least she didn't when she interviewed Kamala Harris. Here's a sot from last year when she came to Kamala Harris's defense on immigration after the presidential debate. Listen to this.

[Norah O'Donnell]

When the topic of immigration came up, which is one that Donald Trump likes to hammer this administration on, he likes to call Kamala Harris wrongly.

[Megyn Kelly]

The borders are.

[Norah O'Donnell]

That was not Specifically her. Her job.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes, it was that. It. See, it's subtle. Some people are on. On the nose with their bias, and other people work it into their commentary. Like she does right there. Yes, she was the border czar. She absolutely was the border czar. And that is Norah o' Donnell trying to run cover for Kamala Harris to remove that set of responsibilities from her so that she didn't have to share in what happened to this country. Which is exactly what Trump and Tom Homan are trying to fix with these deportations and the ICE raids. Right. It's like you can't. She was what? She was one of the arsonists, Walter. So of course she's not going to be honest about the fire that's burning.

[Walter Kern]

Well, like I say, you know, arson, when you set the fire is actually probably a pretty easy crime. Putting out a fire involves knocking down doors, breaking down walls. Writing a terrible situation is always going to be difficult and awkward. And picking its most awkward moments and most difficult moments as exemplary is, you know, that's dishonest news. But that's their stock in trade as far as this revisionism about Kamala Harris's responsibility for the border. I mean, they can literally in 5 seconds find video of her proclaiming that or her being named that. Why is that a controversy? I mean, it's a fact of, you know, it's a fact of Internet history. Unless they've already erased it.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, that's what they do. As you well know, if it's a bad fact for them, they're very, very capable of erasing it. Here she decides to get. I mean, we heard this from Barack Obama. If people listen to AM update this morning, which they should. We played a sound bite of Barack Obama criticizing Donald Trump, saying he's weaponized the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies. Like, this is a reason why you shouldn't vote Republican, because Trump has weaponized the DOJ to go after his political enemies. Meanwhile, we. It's not just what Joe Biden did to Trump. It's also what Barack Obama did to Trump, trying to set him up as a Russian stooge when Obama knew that he wasn't. All of his top intel, people going to him saying, this is bullshit. This is a Hillary Clinton operation to try to tar Trump. And Barack Obama said, pedal to the metal, boys. Let's do this thing. But okay, that was him. Now here's Norah o' Donnell trying to ask Trump whether he's involved in political retribution with these indictments. We've Seen, Watch here. Saw two.

[Norah O'Donnell]

James Comey, John Bolton, Letitia James were all recently indicted. There's a pattern to these names. They're all public figures who have publicly denounced you. Is it political retribution?

[Donald Trump]

You know who got indicted? The man you're looking at. I got indicted and I was innocent. And here I am because I was able to beat all of the nonsense that was thrown at me. And yet when you go after a dirty cop like Comey or a guy like Bolton, who I hear has, I don't know anything about it, I hear he took records all over the place. Who knows? Letitia James is a terrible, dishonest person, in my opinion.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Did you instruct the Department of Justice to go after them?

[Donald Trump]

No, not in any way, shape or form, no. You don't have to instruct them because they were so dirty, they were so crooked, they were so corrupt, they. That the honest people we have, Pam Bondi's doing a very good job. Cash Patel's doing a very good job. The honest people that we have go after him automatically.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Is this retribution on your part?

[Donald Trump]

Oh, it's the opposite. I think I've been very mild mannered. You're looking at a man who was indicted many times and I had to beat the rep, otherwise I couldn't have run for president. They tried to get me not to run for president by going after me and by indicting me.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, Walter, you notice that in these questions when everybody, when anybody asks Trump about whether this is political retribution, they don't ask, they don't insert the phrase for what, what exactly, Nora, would it be political retribution for? And why do you feel the need to excise that from your question?

[Walter Kern]

I would fire her if I were buried.

[Megyn Kelly]

I would do.

[Walter Kern]

Because these Questions are beneath 60 minutes. They ignore V factual continents that have already emerged from the sea and aren't going back under it. And you know, isn't all legal punishment retribution in some sense? I mean, when we punish a murderer, it's retribution for their murder. When we punish a spy, it's retribution for espionage. In the political realm, if you punish someone who has committed crimes, I suppose it's retribution, but it's retribution on behalf of the people of the United States. That's who this, that's who these laws protect. They don't protect Donald Trump. And to the extent to which they have broken them, they deserve to be punished for all of us. Now, Nora doesn't know their crimes or doesn't consider them crimes or is hiding the fact that she knows I don't know which. But all of those are actionable offenses. If you are a 60 Minutes reporter, that is the most misleading set of questions I can imagine. I don't know why she feels the need at this late date to pretend that we don't know what we do. Kilme was indicted. Why doesn't she actually reprise what he was indicted for? Lying to Congress, not for hurting Donald Trump.

[Megyn Kelly]

Or if you want to go this way, if you want to go to. Okay, Trump instructed them to do it, then have the. Have the post. This is what I would have done if I wanted to go that route. I would have pulled up his true social post that he then took down, directed at Pam Bondi. Pam, you wrote, I've reviewed over 30 statements of post saying that. Essentially, same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing's being done. What about Comey, Adam Shifty Shift, Letitia? They're all guilty as hell, but nothing's going to be done. And then he ended it with, there is a great case and many lawyers and legal pundits say so. Lindsey Halligan's a really good lawyer and likes you a lot. We can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and credibility. They impeach me twice and indicted me five times over nothing. Justice must be served. Now, that's what I would have said. What does that mean? Mr. Trump, it does appear that you interfered. It appears, you know, whatever. Days later, we had a Lindsey Halligan and we had indictments against Comey and Tish James. Why can't you just admit it? It was political retribution FL for what they did to you? Honestly, Walter, that's a way better question, because it's clearly true and most of us don't give a shit because they deserve it.

[Walter Kern]

Well, and the other thing is, it was people like her who made James Comey and Letitia James into these secular saints. Now, you see, what they're doing is they're trying to harvest the propaganda campaign that Iran people, these were never wonderful people in the first place, but when they were prosecuting Donald Trump, they made them into secular heroes. And now they're listing them as though they're untouchables. Letitia James, you know, the icon of New York Justice, James Comey, the prince of probity, the man who wrote, you know, a higher calling. In other words, they built these people up, and now they can't believe that the bowling pins that they set up were coming down. It's their credibility that's on the line, frankly. And that's why they're defending them because we all remember when they put the crowns on these folks.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's so true. Honestly, it's like, I don't even, I don't even think Trump should bother trying to deny it. Like, look, I'm in favor of it and I certainly made my opinion known that I'd love to see something happen if the crime were there. But neither these prosecutors nor these grand juries would have indicted had they not found probable cause for a crime. You know, my personal preference aside, the process went through the correct hoops. These grand juries actually declined to return a true bill on some of the proposed charges. And so clearly these left wing juries in the Eastern District of Virginia, et cetera, found probable cause. Now the legal system will play out as it should. And by the way, where was Norah O' Donnell in 60 Minutes talking to Kamala Harris about Joe Biden saying to the New York Times in April 2022, I want to see Donald Trump indicted. I want. Merrick Garland is too slow. 60 minutes never. Nothing, nothing. Bill Whitaker was like, gee, Kamala Harris, you're hot. No, it wasn't quite that bad, but that's how it felt.

[Walter Kern]

One thing Trump doesn't do enough is, is is list those people who were persecuted besides him, when she made that list of Comey, Letitia and so on, he should have come back with Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, all of people who actually went to fricking jail. And I mean, weren't just indicted, but went to jail. And not only that, he has to, I think, stand up for the fact that, you know, it is grand juries that did this. It is, you know, Americans who made these charges. Donald Trump didn't. If the grand juries in those places had thought that he was on some kind of witch hunt without evidence and so on, they could have told him to shove it, and they didn't. And, you know, so that's who she's questioning at this point. She's questioning the justice system. She loved it a minute ago, but now it's the plaything of Donald Trump.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, exactly. None of the questions or framing has context, which is what an actually sound, honest reporter would make sure of. This is, after all, CBS News. It is not sound or fair when.

[Walter Kern]

You ask somebody if this is political retribution and yet do not at least add with a proviso. Yes, there also is evidence. But you know, then when you act as though there may not be, when you actually let the audience assume that perhaps this has been done without any basis, then you're being misleading. And I don't think you belong on 60 Minutes.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, especially the Bolton one, which even the left wing newspapers have acknowledged was started under the Biden administration. The investigation into whether he wrongfully disclose classified information. No, no, she, she didn't even mention that. By the way. We're going to do a deep dive into the Tish James indictment as the last block of our show today with a man who knows who was convicted of committing fraud himself. And he says, trust me, she's done it. She denies it, but we're gonna go into it. Okay, here's another one. Trump was asked about how, and this too is a lie about how, oh, Zoran Mamdani is basically the Trump of the left, which, I mean, talk about a laundering of Zoran Mamdani. Watch this.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Zorhan Mandami, 34 year old Democratic socialist.

[Donald Trump]

He's the communist. Not socialist, communist. He's far worse than a socialist.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Some people have compared him to a left wing version of you, charismatic, breaking the old rules. What do you think about that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think I'm a much better looking person than him. Right.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Well, what if Mondame becomes mayor?

[Donald Trump]

It's gonna be hard for me as the president to give a lot of money to New York because if you have a communist running New York, all you're doing is wasting the money you're sending there. So I don't know that he's won. And I'm not a fan of Cuomo one way or the other, but if it's going to be between a bad Democrat and a Communist, I'm going to pick the bad Democrat all the time, to be honest with you.

[Megyn Kelly]

So well said. That last line. That's exactly right. If it's between a communist and a bad Democrat, I'll pick the bad Democrat. Go ahead, Walter.

[Walter Kern]

Megan, Norah o' Donnell just asserted on CBS News on its crown jewel, 60 Minutes, that some people have compared Mamdani to Trump. Have you yet heard that? Of all the comparisons I've heard, Mom.

[Megyn Kelly]

Donnie, Two peas in a pod.

[Walter Kern]

Donald Trump is not, is the, the one that I haven't heard. I don't who some people are that they, you know, they're like the experts that they've. Fine.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is she a Cuomo voter? Possibly. Like, why would she say that in 60 Minutes to 60 Minutes viewers?

[Walter Kern]

Well, I don't, I don't know. But Trump, Trump, Trump came back with I'm better looking because he was insulting properly. This unseriousness and the silliness of the question. What's he supposed to say to that? Some people have compared you.

[Sam Antar]

What?

[Walter Kern]

No, I don't know who they are. Bring them on here. I don't believe they exist. Next question.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, if he had said. If he had said who, she would have been so uncomfortable, right?

[Walter Kern]

Exactly. Let's hear. When did that happen? Today, Yesterday. What he should have said is that, you know, well, do those people admire him but hate me? Are they saying that he's terrible? Because most people on your network use Donald Trump as a synonym for the devil, so they must hate him. Right? I mean, now, now, Donald Trump. Now, to call somebody Donald Trump is a compliment on cbs. I don't understand what they're saying. Oh, he. Because he breaks the rules also. What rule has he broken? I mean, what is Mondami doing that in New York is actually so controversial?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I mean, his last campaign ad, I think was in Arabic. That's, that's a little controversial, but not for the reasons that they attacked Donald Trump. I mean, this guy.

[Walter Kern]

Oh, that reminds me of Donald Trump when he does a campaign commercial in Arabic. What?

[Megyn Kelly]

So I do think it's interesting, though, that you've got, like, there's, there is a dynamic underfoot here at cbs. Before I go on to it, actually, I'll just play one more. This is. Oh, sorry. Two more. I don't want to spend our whole time talking about Nora o', Donnell, but here was some news. A little bit about who's going to be president or run for president on the GOP ticket in 28. So five.

[Norah O'Donnell]

There'S been a lot of talk about 2028 and who will be at the top of the Republican ticket. Can you set the record straight? You're not going to try and run for a third term?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I don't even think about it. I will tell you, a lot of people want me to run, but the difference between us and the Democrats is we really do have a strong bench. I don't want to use names because it's, you know, inappropriate, but it's too early.

[Norah O'Donnell]

But people do like when you start talking about whether you like J.D. vance or Secretary.

[Donald Trump]

I do like J.D. vance. I like Marco Rubio. I like so many. We have an unbelievable bench.

[Megyn Kelly]

My take on this is the same as it's been, which is Trump just is, this is the guy who ran Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice, and he's definitely not going to tell you who's going to win the final boardroom contest until anything closer than the last episode.

[Walter Kern]

He's a Lot smarter than she is. And it was clear there because even though he acted a little annoyed, she fell into his trap. She. He has her talking about Marco Rubio and J.D. vance in the 2028 election, and already she's already giving free air time to that. She's, you know, she's already getting us focused on that. And all he has to do is say, I might run in 2028, and he's drawn all the attention to the Republican ticket, and that's all it takes. I mean, stay quiet and. Yeah. And in that sense, he's controlling the conversation. Yet she thinks her gotchas are controlling it. And once again, she said, a lot of people are saying. Do they have to preface everything with experts say? Or some people are saying, or a lot of people are saying. There's CBS News, for God's sake. Why don't they talk about themselves?

[Megyn Kelly]

Just say it. Just say it.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Could it be. Just say it. Could it be. J.D. have you considered that you said Marco and J.D. would make an amazing tickets ticket. Why say that? I like whatever. Okay.

[Walter Kern]

Exactly. They're always handling some man in the street who doesn't exist, who's, like, more.

[Megyn Kelly]

Credible than Norah o'. Donnell. I mean, truly, it undermines you as a reporter. Right? It's like, I don't have the credibility or the gravitas to actually ask this question, but some people do. Here is. This is from the extended interview. It didn't air on 60, but it was part of the interview that got, you know, scrapped. Now, I believe they're posting all their presidential Transcripts on. On cbs.com or 60.com because of what happened with Kamala Harris. At least they said that was gonna be their new policy. So here is an exchange that did not make the cut. Watch this.

[Donald Trump]

The press got behind her. Oh, they were so behind her. But eventually she failed because she couldn't speak. She wasn't a very intelligent person in my opin. Couldn't speak properly. She could not speak. And actually, 60 Minutes paid me a lot of money. And you don't have to put this on because I don't want to embarrass you, and I'm sure you're not. You have a great. I think you have a great new leader, frankly, because the young woman that's leading your whole enterprise is a great. From what I know, I don't know her, but she's a great person. But 60 Minutes was forced to pay me a lot of money because they took her answer out. That was so bad, it was election changing two nights before the election. And they put a new answer in and they paid me a lot of money for that. You can't have fake news. You've got to have legit news. And I think that it's happening. I see, Mr. President, I see good things happening in the news. I really do. And I think one of the best things to happen is this show and new ownership, CBS and new ownership. I think it's the greatest thing that's happened in a long time to a free and open and good press.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, she wasn't so interruptive on that one, Walter, because she's like, there's no way one second of this is airing. Go. Go ahead.

[Walter Kern]

But, but am I correct? Did you say that they make available that which they have cut out now?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, on YouTube, they post it.

[Walter Kern]

That's a victory. That's a huge victory.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, they only did it because he sued, because it became a national controversy, because people felt they actively interfered with, with the presidential election. Because what's so controversial about just showing an actual exchange or showing the transcript of the actual exchange versus what you aired? So, yes, it was a victory, but it's like, so, so such a simple thing to do.

[Walter Kern]

It is a simple thing to do, and it's a common sense thing to do. And they never did it before because they wanted to hide their sins. And now they've gotten caught and forced to do it. But it allows a chess game on the part of the interviewee that didn't exist before, which is, as Trump said, you can now say things that you know they're going to cut out. And you have a sort of second interview. You have like the black market interview in which you praise. In which you praise Barry Weiss and so on. And you know it's going to be cut out, but you know, it's also going to be available and can be clipped and circulated on social media. So There are now two 60 Minutes interviews. Every time there is one, and one includes, I bet you will cut this out. And then they do, and then it circulates anyway, that they have. They have made some progress against the deceptive press. And that innovation is one. And the fact that Barry Weiss is in charge of CBS News is another. And I think that's a much bigger deal than people are letting on because whatever their viewership is, even compared to this podcast, I'm sure it's smaller in a lot of ways.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it's. But again, their morning numbers are in third place, which is the kiss of death. And their evening Numbers, I think are in third place. They're all in third place. CBS has never been great and they're especially weak right now. Keep going.

[Walter Kern]

But, but, but, but it shows that these places are penetrable. CBS News, next to the New York Times is the historic crown jewel of what is called the establishment liberal media. You know, back to the days of Bill Paley, whatever. And that it could have a change in its executive leader and its editorial policy. I don't think is appreciated as the sea change. It really is.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, it's the last.

[Walter Kern]

That's the last thing they wanted to go. That's their tiara.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, they had a change at the top at 60 with their executive producer prior to Barry now post Barry. And we reported this late last week. There are reports that Scott Pelley may be on his way out, which I totally believe because Barry is not an insane lunatic. There's no way she didn't look at him. Here's Scott Pelley. Okay, ready, Walter? This is how he does every interview. This is him listening.

[Walter Kern]

Audience.

[Megyn Kelly]

I've got my reading glasses at the end of my nose. That didn't happen. Terrible conservative person. Trust me, that's a lie. Another terrible lie by evil conservatives. That's Scott Pelley. So he's, I believe, will be on his way out. And today or yesterday, whatever. A couple days ago it hit the news that the next one to go. I will show you who we believe the next one to go is. It's this person here in Sat 29. Please don't call it a ride. That is not a. Whenever a man goes up. You have never said to an astronaut boy, what a ride. You know, we duplicated the same tradition. Yes, we have. That Alan Shepard did back in the day. Pretty much. You're. Alan Shepard called that a ride. It was called a flight. It was called a journey because a. Right. A ride implies that it's something frivolous or something light hearted. There was nothing frivolous about what we did.

[Walter Kern]

Did.

[Megyn Kelly]

You had stuffed animals. And the machine that we were on.

[Walter Kern]

Megan, what it took for the people.

[Megyn Kelly]

To get that machine up and running to get us up and get us back down safely. So, you know, I'm very disappointed and very saddened by it. And I also say this. So what it's doing to inspire other women and young girls. I'm inspirational.

[Walter Kern]

It's called a ride because it's called a ride because you weren't steering. Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

That say.

[Sam Antar]

Wow.

[Megyn Kelly]

I never thought I could. Men too. See you doing it at this stage of my Life. Who would have thunk it? Not me. No, don't. Don't ignore how inspired everybody is.

[Walter Kern]

Help fly the rocket. Is that what.

[Meghan Markle]

Yes.

[Walter Kern]

Suggesting.

[Megyn Kelly]

But she. But also a machine. A machine did it. That's a machine. Walter. Okay, Alan, take a seat. That's who. I'm shocked. Shocked to have to report to you. Is reportedly next to go.

[Walter Kern]

I'm a former professor of English and I can't think of another word for what she did. Is there some other word besides rock?

[Megyn Kelly]

Ride, Flight, Mission. Were you paying attention? It was a mission.

[Walter Kern]

It was a. It was a mission. To talk about a ride as though it were a mission. That was the mission. It was a propaganda mission based on a fair.

[Megyn Kelly]

The world's nothing frivolous.

[Walter Kern]

The most expensive carnival ride in history. Which is what it was.

[Megyn Kelly]

Lauren Sanchez had her. Her astronauts suit unzipped, her navel with her enormous silicone brush sticking out. Nothing frivolous about what we did.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

This can cost you. It can cost you your credibility with an audience that was already waning. This got a lot of tongues wagging. Within 60 minutes they knew she made a fool of herself. And on top of this I told this audience we went to the time 100 this year and there was Gail. Every table with celebrities going over, glomming, buddying up like I'm Oprah's best friend. I'm inserting the dialogue. But of course if you know me, I might be able to get you invited to an Oprah party. This is how she. You know, most people, especially in our business, would rather be caught dead than trying to buddy up to the Blake Lively's of the world. Her instincts are exactly the opposite because she spends her free time on David Geffen's yacht with the Obamas and Oprah. All of this is alienating, especially to a morning show audience. Walter. Which is why I believe she will be soon to go.

[Walter Kern]

Well what does she actually do there again? I mean, I'm not clear what, what is her. You know, she just comes around and flavors the background or appears, you know, as an ad hoc improvised.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's one of the three main morning show hosts. She's like. She's part of the trifecta the, the brain trust they put out there.

[Walter Kern]

You know, it's really hard to report on the media when you no longer watch it. But I do my best so many.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of giving you the clip from which you can make all your decisions.

[Walter Kern]

Right, right. But so many of these people are kind of exotic at this point because they're not the central Figures. They used to be. CBS News is not the central institution it used to be. It may be again. It made, you know, attempt to come back. And I don't know if Barry's CBS is going to gain viewership in new demographics or just if she's there to stop the bleeding or what they expect finally. But get rid of her. I mean, the thing was failing. Get rid of all of them. Frankly, I'm trying to think of anybody in my memory of who I've seen on CBS recently who I would believe is, you know, necessary to keep.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who know it's going to be really hard. I don't know. The only one is coming to mind is I love Ricky Kleeman, who is a legal commentator who used to work at Court TV and then went to cbs. And she's married to Bill Bratton, former New York City Police Commissioner. They're a law and order kind of couple and a law and order kind of family. And she helped me when I was very young trying to break it in journalism. That's really the only one is coming to mind. Wait, while we're on the subject of reporters and media. Oh, by the way, I should point out John Dickerson's also leaving, leaving cbs, which is interesting. He's the one who couldn't quite find the motive in the Charlie Kirk shooting. Okay, sure. Okay. There's a.

[Walter Kern]

This entire network missed the fact that the president was a vegetable. Therefore, I think they should all be fired. Except. Except for your friend who I think should be made anchor. That's.

[Kamala Harris]

She'd be.

[Megyn Kelly]

She'd be amazing. She'd be amazing. Okay, now wait. There was news last week from a former NBC reporter. Hold on a second. Can you get there? Oh, is this what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of John Dickerson leaving, and her name is Michelle Kaczynski. Now, Michelle Kaczynski used to work at NBC News and then she wound up at CNN for a short stint. And now I don't believe she's employed. Not any place visibly, anyway. Okay. She's a big Trump hater, this gal. And she tweeted out on, I guess this was Wednesday, 1028, John Dickerson leaving CBS and CBS looking to hire Scott Jennings because that was another report that Barry was looking to poach Scott from cnn. Tell instantly all you need to know about the revamped network. Revamped is in air quotes. Well, actual quotes, because it's a tweet. So she disapproves of bringing on Scott Jennings and, and of John Dickerson leaving And Michelle Kaczynski, I mean, she knows a thing or two about broadcasting and how to fuck them up. Here she is at NBC after a. I think it was a hurricane caused alleged floodwaters in certain parts in a canoe, trying to make it look like she's basically in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Whereupon for the listening audience, firemen walk right by her. Walk right by her canoe, totally fine and on their own feet. And Matt Lauer has one of the best lines ever in response. Watch.

[Walter Kern]

But first, the severe flooding here in the northeast as more rain continues to fall. Today, NBC's Michelle Kaczynski, I guess she's in the canoe. Is in Wayne, New Jersey, this morning.

[Megyn Kelly]

Michelle, good morning to you. Good morning. Well, obviously we're getting a nice break from the rain, but not the flooding. This is essentially now a part of the Passaic river in this neighborhood. It rushed in yesterday through the street. And it's really tough to control a canoe or a boat when you're out in it. It's much deeper back there because this is really, actually.

[Walter Kern]

Michelle, I'll take it. Is there some kind of severe drop off there between the foreground? Go back. We saw these guys a second ago, Michelle, walking. Are these holy men walking on top of water?

[Megyn Kelly]

What's going on here? Why don't you walk when you can ride? You guys, when you have a ride like this, why would you want to walk?

[Sam Antar]

Have you run ashore?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, they could, they wouldn't let me go back into the deep water because they were afraid I would just drift away.

[Walter Kern]

She, she, I mean, she's a prize idiot. She stayed with the bit after the bit was blown. I mean, she kept paddling, she kept pretending to paddle. Listen, I grew up in Minnesota. I'm one of the old school canoeists of America. I've been in birch bark canoes. I mean, she, the minute anybody saw her hold on that paddle, it didn't matter if the water was six inches deep. They knew it was fake. That, that's like, watch. That's like watching somebody hold a gun by the barrel. Okay? They apparently have nobody who, they have nobody who goes outside in that entire group. I, I mean, you'd think somebody lives up in Maine or, you know, upstate New York. Apparently it's all people who live in Soho on the top floor of a, you know, a building because letting her out there to paddle that way was a sin. And what did they think? Why didn't they, why didn't they actually take this serious? We just got caught. Like they Just they laughed it off in the studio, and she apparently went with it right to the end. She.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, she wasn't there much longer. She wasn't there much. I mean, good for Matt Lauer, I have to say, for calling her out. That's. I mean, every once in a while you get a reminder of why they paid Matt Lauer so much money notwithstanding.

[Walter Kern]

But Megan, Megan, you were on the news. That wasn't her idea. She. She didn't want to be in that canoe. You think that she came up with that? I need a canoe. Let's go get one and I'll paddle.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's possible. It's possible because the person that would do it is just as dumb as the person that would think it up. You know what I mean? Like most reporters be like, I'm not getting a fucking canoe. There's 2 inches of water out there. I'm gonna look like an idiot. I won't even be able to get the ore enough in the water to push my fake canoe, which. Which she couldn't, by the way. She was having that difficulty. But here's a little bit about. Here's the other story that got Michelle Kaczynski in the News back in October 20, 2020. She left CNN earlier that year, but there was a scandal involving her. She denied it, but she was in the news for allegedly having an affair while at CNN with the British ambassador to the United States, who later he was under investigation for intel leaks. He was a lot older than she was. He was caught for the listening audience. He looks a little like Prince Andrew here with, like, disheveled hair. He's a lot older. And she denied it. She said tabloids printing incorrect information about my private life is unacceptable. There's a great deal wrong, and it's simply false about what is being reported. So I guess I'm being kind of generous in saying she denied it. She said some of what was reported was untrue. And now she's out there opining that, I guess John Dickerson needs to say at CBS and Scott Jennings should not go to cbs because in her view, that's wrong. And I'll just give you one more about this reporter. We covered this when it happened. This is May of 2024. A few weeks ago. I had dinner with a few couples, friends of friends, all American. All were well educated and successful in careers. They seemed great, exclamation point on the surface, period, for like an hour, period. But slowly, over a few drinks, they began to let slip their MAGA natures. And then she goes on. Yeah, as she goes on from there, she says, as it went on, my friends and I realized we were surrounded by otherwise carefully closeted magas. It's funny how the extremist or just wrong beliefs can't help but leak out even when you least expect them and from people you least expect. This dinner continues to haunt me. They all seemed so normal. When I asked the couple, who are my old friends, how they didn't know, they said that in their upscale Florida neighborhood, people are extremely careful not to ever broach or debate the subject. This is not healthy. It's so picture perfect. Representative of our American media, Walter.

[Walter Kern]

Well, as a fraud herself, I'm surprised she can't see through frauds better.

[Megyn Kelly]

Game knows game.

[Walter Kern]

What she's really surprised by is that rich people who go to dinner could support Donald Trump. That's how they fooled her, you know, because what she's really admitting to is that not only do I live in a bubble, I expect that everybody else in these neighborhoods and in the kind of apartments where I eat dinner are also in my bubble. And as a reporter, to act surprised like this shows you're not much of a reporter. You just assume everybody of a certain social class thinks a certain way. You never think to ask them questions. You never find out who they actually are. And then when they surprise you in all your prejudiced, stereotypical beliefs about the upper middle class, you're shocked.

[Megyn Kelly]

They were well educated, she writes. They were successful.

[Walter Kern]

I thought those were mutually great. They drove a BMW. I didn't know BMW drivers could back Trump. I mean, one of them went to Sarah Lawrence. I didn't know you could go to Sarah Lawrence and back Trump. Like, who is this person, in other words? I just said that no one at CBS News has ever paddled a canoe. Apparently nobody, or at least not her, has ever been to a mixed dinner party. She just admitted that she never consorts with the enemy, yet she's supposed to tell us what goes on in America.

[Megyn Kelly]

Shocking. The shocking display of. Of what? How did she put it? Extreme intolerance. What was it? Oh, extremist or just wrong beliefs? And the couple who are my friends, even they didn't know. How did these people get here? My God. Who. Who's manning the gate? Well, in any event, it's no longer Michelle Kaczynski.

[Walter Kern]

She narrated it like. You were correct, like a vampire movie. Suddenly, they started sprouting fangs, and I saw the blood dripping from their tongue, you know? Did she say how she saved herself? How she got out of There, alive from.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, I guess she just thought it would be appropriate to just go to Twitter and rip on her new friends publicly in front of, you know, what, however many people saw. Right. That's the way you handle it. Right? Like you, you go to Twitter to resolve private disputes. That's the classy, above board way to do these things.

[Walter Kern]

There's a famous quote from the film critic Pauline Kale. She couldn't figure out how Richard Nixon got elected because nobody she knew voted for him. Yeah, that's from the 1970s. This is the version, this is the current version of that. I don't see, you know, how Donald Trump got elected because, you know, everybody I know voted for somebody else. And I only find myself by surprise in the company of people who didn't. And it shocks me that they even exist. Somebody elected him. You know, you've, I'm sure you've been curating your social life pretty carefully, but it was probably inevitable that one night you'd end up at dinner with one of these people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here's, here's my final word on it. Scott Jennings should not go from CNN to CBS News. This is my hot take of the day. He will be quickly rendered irrelevant because CBS news is irrelevant. 60 still has some sway, but other than that, they never make news for any reason. And what made Scott Jennings a household name is his fiery debates over on CNN and being outnumbered by everyone. It's like 10 to 1. And he can hold his own. They don't have a forum that is conducive to those kinds of debates on cbs. And so while maybe he could make more money, maybe he thinks it's more prestigious, it's not. None of them is. He should stay right where he is because the one thing he has at CNN is relevance. Since he's so much different than everyone else.

[Walter Kern]

Couldn't agree more. He's smart, but they make him look really smart on cnn.

[Megyn Kelly]

Stand by. Be right back. More with Walter after this. Did you know that up until the 1990s, all chips and fries were cooked in beef tallow? Those memories of you at McDonald's in the 80s, that was beef tallow, not seed oils. But then big food companies made the switch to cheap, highly processed seed oils, and now they make up 20% of the average American's daily calories. This is why I'm excited to tell you about Masa. It's a chip that's doing things differently. You have four Masa chips, you feel sated, you don't have to eat the whole bag. Masa chips are made with just three ingredients. Organic corn, sea salt and 100% grass fed beef tallow. That's it. No seed oils, no junk. And let me tell you, they are so good. They're crunchier, they're tastier, and they do not break into your guac. Plus, they leave you feeling light, satisfied and energized. It's truly, truly true. No crash, no bloat. Go try them. You're going to taste the difference and you're going to love them. Ready to give Masa a try? Go to masachips.com mk masachips.com and use code MK for 25% off your first order. That's masachips.com MK code MK when you check out to get 25% off your first order. Don't feel like ordering online? Well, Masa is now available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket.

[Donald Trump]

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[Meghan Markle]

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[Megyn Kelly]

It's finally here. All right, let's get this party started. Megyn Kelly live on tour across America. I was like, we have. And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go.

[Walter Kern]

The best way to honor Charlie's legacy.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is to be out here, to be.

[Walter Kern]

Unafraid, to not back down. Stand firmly.

[Sam Antar]

Do not waver on the truth.

[Megyn Kelly]

Next stop, White Plains, Jacksonville, Miami and Atlanta. So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. MeganKelly.com presented by Y Refi and SiriusXM here with me today, Walter Kern. He is editor at large for county highway and co host of America this Week podcast. And I want to tell you Walter will be joining me on the Megyn Kelly Live tour. He is with me on one of the most important nights we will have, and that is November 22nd in Glendale, Arizona with Erica Kirk. This is going to be a big night. It's going to be the last night of the tour. It's. I think it's almost sold out, last I checked. I told you this the other day. There were like, a couple tickets left, but. But I thought Walter would be the perfect compliment to Erica. Just all the right gravitas, sensitivity, intelligence, emotional intelligence. They don't go on together. You know, we do one and we do the other. But I just think on a big, big night, there's no one I'd rather have with me. And so you can check it out now. Go to megankelley.com seven dates to go. So go now and check out what's available. Walter, really looking forward to that. For.

[Walter Kern]

Thank you for having me. I haven't been able to thank you personally. What an honor. And it's going to be a moving and important evening for us and for the country and for that community. So I'm glad to be there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, thank you. I'm like. I'm, like, looking forward to it. And I'm also feeling like that's an important one, you know, like I. I got to make sure I do a good job that night. I always worry about doing a good job, but that one, I really can't screw up, so I won't. Um, okay. I teased it at the beginning, but as Stephen L. Miller on X put it, I'm afraid we've disappointed the Obamas again. Once again, we haven't lived up to their high standards and we're essentially being called racist. Here's Michelle Obama, who's promoting a new book on her special fashion and sat down with People magazine and said the following in Sat.

[Michelle Obama]

26 Hair as women of color. That the way our hair naturally grows out of our head, it's beautiful. But if we struggle to make it look like the standard, that means we are spending thousands of hours and lots of money straightening out what is naturally curly hair. Right? And that takes time out of your life. It costs money.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so what she's saying is she's bitter because society's standards, in her view, don't allow black women to just walk around with their natural hair. That is bullshit. Black women can walk around with whatever hair they want. Only in Michelle Obama's warped mind do white people not like them if. Unless their hair looks like white hair. And here's the other thing. The nerve, the nerve of this woman to pretend that black women are the only women who have to spend a bunch of time getting their natural hair to, quote, conform to these alleged society standards. Because virtually every woman I know, every woman spends a shit ton of time on her hair and wants it to look better than God made it. It's not a black thing. It's a human thing, and it's especially a woman thing. But she's always reducing everything to race.

[Walter Kern]

My hair naturally should be coming down to my shoulders. I should have a mustache and a beard. Why should I have to shave that off and cut it? I mean, what oppressor is forcing that on me? It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be gray either. I should have to color it. I've defied conventional standards by not doing so, But. And also thousands of dollars on your hair. Well, how does she know? I bet she spends tens of thousands, frankly. I want to see her budget. And why doesn't she let her hair grow out naturally?

[Megyn Kelly]

It doesn't do it.

[Walter Kern]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's talking about when she was first lady and how you remember this. She said this at the time. Okay. I had my team pull this. This is Michelle Obama in 2022 explaining why she didn't wear braids when she was first lady. Watch.

[Michelle Obama]

As black women, we deal with it. The whole thing about, do you show up with your natural hair? You know, break y', all, you know, But. But, you know, as first lady, I did not wear braids. Being the first black.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

I just. We gotta ease up on the people.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, Just like.

[Michelle Obama]

Because I thought about it. I was like, it would be easier. Nope, nope. They're not ready.

[Megyn Kelly]

They're not ready. We couldn't handle, by the way.

[Walter Kern]

Actually, we would have accepted it. You know what? We would have.

[Megyn Kelly]

Fine.

[Walter Kern]

No one in America.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's as fascinated by her as she thinks we are.

[Walter Kern]

No one in America has their natural hair. Except for Dog the Bounty Hunter. He has his natural hair. The rest of us don't.

[Megyn Kelly]

You definitely speak for me. I do not have my natural hair either. And it takes some effort to look like this. Name that movie. So this, like, who's she kidding herself that it's just a black thing. Okay? If I went out there with my natural hair, I would look like a toddler, which is why I don't. But everything for her has to be. She's oppress. She has it harder than we do. I had to pay for my daughter's tickets on my own airplane that we didn't even know she got. As first lady. Did not Even realize the first lady has her own airplane. But she told us that. And here's the one. I think this is actually the one that Stephen L. Miller was laughing about. Here's. Okay, hold on a second here. Listen to this. How they didn't get the grace that other first families do when they took over as first family. Walter. Give you one guess why. Watch this.

[Walter Kern]

We were all too aware that as a first black couple, we couldn't afford any missteps.

[Kamala Harris]

Yeah.

[Walter Kern]

And you also say, as a black woman, I was under a particularly white hot glare. Did you feel that?

[Megyn Kelly]

Shut up. For sure.

[Michelle Obama]

You can't afford to get anything wrong because you didn't get the. At least until the country came to know us. We didn't get the grace that I think some other families have gotten. Now, don't get me wrong, Every first lady faces the kind of scrutiny. Every woman in the public eye faces a certain level of scrutiny because of her physical appearance. I mean, we live in a culture, sadly, where, you know, if somebody wants to go out after a woman, the first thing they do is go after our looks, our size, our physical being as a way to, you know, make us feel small, to keep us in place.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Walter Kern]

She's still complaining about the White House. It's exactly the opposite of what she said. She got more grace. She could have done. She could have done almost anything. And does she not forget she had just been elected by a majority? We just shown that. We approved of her. We did know her. We elected her. America had put her in the White House. The same America that wasn't gonna allow her any grace. What? They put her in the White House as a joke to trip her up. This is ridiculous. None of it happened. What is she talking about?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, no, Everything is a grievance with this woman. And the nerve to be like, oh, we didn't get as much grace. They were on every magazine cover. They were treated like Camelot reincarnate. Everybody celebrated them. Left the right wing media, even the right wing media gave them like a nod, a pass, or like, okay, the first black president, first black first lady. They were nice about it. They didn't like his policies, but they were nice to them. They were universally celebrated. And now she weren't given the grace of the whites. That's basically what she's saying, the grace.

[Walter Kern]

What is she talking about? In other words, she acts like she was persecuted after becoming first lady of the United States. That is the greatest honor so far, short of female president. That can go to a woman and to her husband. And America did that, and that was an act of persecution. Even electing you president won't get you off our case.

[Michelle Obama]

What.

[Walter Kern]

What do we have to do to get you off our case?

[Megyn Kelly]

No, she's still about her imaginary hair rules. She mentioned it again on. Let me see. Is it. Is it sat 21? You guys, the new one? Yeah, I'm trying to find. Yeah, it's not 21. Here she is again. More on the hair. This is with Robin Roberts.

[Michelle Obama]

That was intentional, but it was like having me, the former first lady, a black woman, show up in the world in her natural hair. Even if I didn't do it for those eight years, I understood the importance of doing it at some point and signaling a message to young girls and to professionals out there, stay out of our hair. You know, we're just trying to get to work and do it fast and efficiently. Don't tell a black woman how to wear her hair. How I wear my hair should be my choice. And it shouldn't be illegal. It shouldn't be something that can't be done if you're part of the military.

[Megyn Kelly]

Illegal.

[Walter Kern]

Megan, they're both sitting there with straightened hair. What's going on? Are they trying to drive us crazy?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. It shouldn't be illegal. And what. Oh, so it's a black woman who. You can't tell how to wear her hair. Can you tell the white women? How about the Asians? The Indian women? How about Indian women? They have very thick hair. A lot of times it's curly. It gets unruly. I'm sure they have to do the irons just like you, Michelle. Just like white women do, too. By the way, I've burned my hair to the high heavens with those irons. Like, who is she fucking kidding? Everything. Everything is about poor Boo fucking who? Michelle Obama. And especially when you get around the topic of race. It's nonstop.

[Walter Kern]

Meghan, you know why I think they're doing this? Because they're trying to convince young people that something is true that the young people don't realize has always been true. Okay? In other words, I have a store nearby me that says, we accept all people. We accept people of all colors. And so. And it's a big sign in the front of the store. And I want to tell young people, you know, even before stores had those signs, they still accepted all people. They're making it seem like there was some past that was terrible. Well, you know what? They're trying to convince young people now that there was some persecution of her and her husband that Never happened. It didn't happen. If you're starting to vote now and you don't remember what it was like in 2010, that was a long time ago. Now you can have this revisionist history that they face persecution. And I think they're actually trying to.

[Megyn Kelly]

You are so onto something. You're so onto something. Because here's more from the People magazine article right up that alley. Listen to sock25.

[Sam Antar]

The othering that took place of you while you were in the office. When that did get through to you, how did you cope? How did you manage?

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, I took it for what it was. It was pure hypocrisy. You know, Abby would just straight up, kind of, what do you not look at history? You know, I could pull up pictures of Jackie O in a second and see this fashion icon in sleeveless dresses as first lady. At a point you're like, oh, this is. This is politics. This is, you know, if you can't beat them, make everybody scared of them. How often were we called unpresidential? How many ways were we. Were our opponents trying to make us make the country feel that we were not suitable for this job? Even when we had it.

[Walter Kern]

This never happened.

[Megyn Kelly]

And yet it does happen to Donald Trump and Melania Trump all the time.

[Walter Kern]

Of course it does. He's the one who's called unpresidential. They're trying to assume all the persecution that's ever happened to other people besides them because they are one of the most golden couples in American history. They made movies about their courtship. Has there been a movie yet about when Donald met Melania? Well, I was once staying at the Bowery Hotel in New York City, and a bunch of people were filming a movie out front. I said, what's this movie about? And they said, this is about when Michelle and Barack first met and first dated. Nobody got. Did George Bush get that with the Barbara Bush dating period? No one's had that treatment. These are some of the most privileged, pampered, wealthy Martha's Vineyard residents, plus their other houses residents in America. And they're acting like they had to cross a couple Ku Klux Klan, you know, line of hooded cross burners to get into the White House.

[Megyn Kelly]

We elected them still, like, to this day. It's incredible. And to have the nerve of Barack Obama to be out there on the campaign trail in New Jersey and Virginia saying, oh, the Republicans, they're obsessed with dei. They think DEI is responsible for everything. You know, why are they so focused on DEI and dividing people? You. You, sir, and Your wife are the ones who are focused on DEI and dividing people. You see everything through a racial prism. Everything. It's ridiculous. I got news for you, Michelle Obama. White women have to pat the weave too. It is not just a black thing anymore. So there. Okay, let's keep going. Because while we're on the subject of women in the news who are famous and lie, I just have to show this. Did you watch the World Series the other night?

[Walter Kern]

No, unfortunately, I was giving a speech so I couldn't see it and I haven't really.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I don't watch sports. I don't know anything about sports. I don't watch sports. I, you know, I'm an ignoramus when it comes to sports. But it was game seven, so my, my, my son's headed on. And it kept going and going and going. It was going so late. But I kept saying, I'm going to bed now. No, next inning. Bottom, bottom of the ninth. I'm going. No, I, I stayed up for the whole thing. And it turned out the LA Dodgers won, which I was very happy to see because why would I be rooting for the Canadians in a match against Americans? I was rooting for the Americans and I was very happy they won. And I thought it was really crazy. Like the last couple innings were great, where they had the catcher first. That was the Rojas on the, on the Dodgers who hit a home run to tie it up four, four. And they'd been down three zero. The Dodgers had. They inched their way back. They Rojas ties it up, now it's 4, 4. And then the catcher hits a homer in the 10th inning to put the Dodgers up 5, 4. And then they played great defense in the bottom of the 10th to win the thing. It was great. It was truly like out of a movie. It was thrilling. Just as even a non sports fan. And one thing I didn't try to do though, was try to pretend that this was my team. That it was, you know, a moment that brought me to my feet, cheering with tears because I'm a normal person who doesn't try to do that when I'm not like an avowed sports fan. Right. You know who else is in my same camp? Meghan Markle, who is not a big tweeter or promoter or anything as far as I can tell about sports at all. Though she is originally from someplace out in California and she, I mean, I just. Weirdly, I was sitting there in my family room. Walter. By this point it was just me and my oldest child who's 16. Cause it was late. It was like midnight when they won. Weirdly, I did not have a camera on us. I. I wasn't ready to film us on the winning moment. My eyes, as my son's eyes, were focused on the television because that was what was interesting. But weirdly, Meghan Markle just happened to have herself on camera along with Prince Harry at the moment and shared this little gem with us.

[Meghan Markle]

Oh, my God.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. Poor, poor Harry. Poor Harry.

[Walter Kern]

Is that their security camera that they turned on? It didn't look like anybody was actually filming. That looked like automatic cover.

[Kamala Harris]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what they did was go back and check their security camera for a bit of themselves and then posted it. That whole reaction was as authentic as those Lauren Sanchez boobs we talked about earlier.

[Walter Kern]

Whoa. Well, you know, I would have. I would have liked to see the Dodgers lose, just to see what they would have, you know, done. It would have been crying, weeping, pulling their hair out.

[Megyn Kelly]

It would have been the Queen. Remember, she cried the single tear at the Queen's funeral, which she. Who she helped kill. In my view.

[Walter Kern]

At least the guy didn't pretend to be an American. He's been doing a lot of pretending to be an American or being a British person who has something to say. Was that him sitting in the chair? Was that.

[Megyn Kelly]

He didn't go to the. To the game wearing an LA Dodgers hat. So, I mean, I don't give him a full pass because he's still pretending, but he. He looked like a hostage there. He. I mean, you really kind of wanted to have King Charles send in some. The equivalent of the Navy SEALs into Montecito to go rescue the Prince.

[Walter Kern]

Well, Megan, he didn't know that that was going to be released worldwide. He thought he was in his. He thought he was in his own home, just, you know, with his kooky wife and her friend. And he didn't have any reason to behave. He must be so pissed right now. Wait, you released that? I had a chance to get up and hug you and go, wow. Yeah, but I didn't know. We're going to use our home security footage. As TikTok tell me next time.

[Megyn Kelly]

She never misses an opportunity to make it about herself. Like, truly, even I was happy for the Dodgers. Like I said, I would never think what I should do is make this about me and myself as opposed to the Dodgers, you numbskull. But she's. I mean, she. She parachuted into Uvalde where a bunch of children were murdered, and made sure she got caught by those cameras. Then Just a couple weeks ago, caught going past the spot where Princess Diana was so brutally killed in that terrible car crash with her bare feet swinging in the car without a care in the world. And the music playing link. Lauren calls her a disaster tourist, and she is. And now she peppers it here with, see, there I am. It's all about me and my joy, because I swear I'm authentic. I'm a Californian. I love the Dodgers, just like normal people, even though I'm firing or at least losing my 10th publicist right now, literally days earlier in the news, because I bully everyone.

[Walter Kern]

Her husband must, if he is not angry as hell right now. And that he even allowed that to come out is actually troubling because it didn't make him look particularly good, except that he wasn't part of. Part of the hysteria. But to allow your home security footage with you in it to be released publicly by your wife so that she can get a few points as a Dodgers fan. Dude, I hate to use the word cucked. I never use the word cuck. But that's.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we've known that about Harry for quite some time. I gotta keep going because I don't want to waste a second of your time. Last week, we played a sound bite of Kamala Harris sitting down with abc, but not this abc, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, and a journalist there named Sarah Ferguson. And it was great because Sarah Ferguson would not allow Kamala to Dodge. She asked the question, like, don't you think it was Joe Biden's frailties and, like, his inability to be honest about them that really cost you in your abbreviated race, like, don't you think that undermined you? And Kamala Dodge tried to blame it on Trump. And Sarah was like, that's a world pivot, Dodge. But the question was about Joe Biden. Kamala looked confused. She looked kind of angry. And it didn't go well for Kamala. Well, after the fact that ABC released new tape of what happened when the interview ended, and what you're about to hear is a Kamala Harris staffer ending it. Listen here. Watch Saadi.

[Kamala Harris]

I want to come back to the book and the purpose of the book.

[Megyn Kelly]

So this is the last question. We're at time you gotta go.

[Norah O'Donnell]

Sorry.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yep.

[Kamala Harris]

Well, that's almost a first, not an absolute first. But to have a member of staff of the former Vice President of the United States actually speak up during the interview to say that we were going too long. I didn't expect that. But coming back to the interview itself seems to me, at its very heart, there is a reluctance on the part of Kamala Harris to actually spell out and talk about the issues that Joe Biden had as president.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you imagine wanting to be leader of the free world and letting your staff jump in to save you during a tough interview?

[Walter Kern]

Well, I mean, it makes you wonder who the leader of the free world is, if it's really the president of the United States anymore. We know that with Joe Biden that it wasn't. You know, we know that some distant ghost was directing that auto Penny. I guess by the time she came along, it wasn't embarrassing because the guy that she'd worked for had been having his staff wheel him in and out of the room. I mean, that was the norm. By the time Kamala came along and she looked. She looked like a dog that was confused because it was getting conflicting orders. You know what I mean? Do I go on the newspaper or do I go on the rug? You know, because she.

[Megyn Kelly]

She.

[Walter Kern]

She didn't even have an answer.

[Donald Trump]

She did.

[Walter Kern]

Wasn't mad at the staff member.

[Kamala Harris]

She.

[Walter Kern]

She looked completely buffaloed. I feel sorry for her. Who wrote her book, by the way? Did she really write it? I mean, she's on a book tour in which her whole. Her whole reason that she was there was to answer that question. Basically, yes. And that kind. And that kind of question. She wrote a book. It's not like they, you know, parachuted in with some adversarial, you know, interview. She's out there, and she can't even judge, you know, how. How to respond. She has to have somebody else do it. That is proof positive that we didn't just dodge a bullet, we dodged a nuclear bomb.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. And you know what's so amazing, Walter, is like, of course what she should have done, Kamala, was to say, I'll decide when it's over. Finish your question, Sarah. We're good. You know, like, she doesn't have the presence or the confidence to do that. And more than that, she was grateful for the lifeline. She was like, oh, God, I guess I'll show. Let me just show the earlier exchange. This is why she was grateful for the lifeline. Here's what had happened just a bit earlier in Stop nine.

[Kamala Harris]

Wasn't Joe Biden meant to put it on him? Wasn't his refusal to recognize his own frailties the reason that you faced a nearly impossible task?

[Megyn Kelly]

I ran against Donald Trump for president, and Donald Trump ran on a platform that was, in large part, I believe, misrepresenting his intentions to The American people. I do believe that there are a fair number of people that voted for Donald Trump who believed him when he told them that his first priority on day one is going to be to bring down prices. And he didn't. And you combine that misrepresentation of intention with also what was at play in terms of massive amounts of mis and disinformation, forgive me, Calendar, in terms of.

[Kamala Harris]

The clock, I want to interrupt you because that is a world class pivot, but it is not the question that I asked you, which is about Joe Biden's failure to recognize his own frailties and what that did to you. The question is about Joe Biden. Are you still reluctant to criticize the former president?

[Megyn Kelly]

In what regard, please?

[Kamala Harris]

Well, just in terms of that question.

[Megyn Kelly]

That I just said. Exactly. Would you to like to ask, be more specific if you don't mind. I already did that. It's like you could see her flailing and so it doesn't that just set up perfectly what we just saw. She was afraid, Walter. This is there were two massive frauds committed on us last, this time last year. The Joe Biden is mentally acute fraud and the fraud that this woman could do the job.

[Walter Kern]

And that, and that's why the aides stepped in, because she was in a trap right there. Because the premise of the question was that she knew he was, he was frail. And she's never really said that. You know what I mean? She, she would to say, yeah, that was a problem for me would have been to admit the premise that he was in terrible shape. And she's never done that. And she can't do it. And you know what's scary about that whole interview? She thinks she can still run for office. She's still trying to save her reputation, obviously, for later. She thinks she has a future in politics. That's why they're handling her that way.

[Megyn Kelly]

We'll see. I hope she's right. I really do. I hope she's right. She has a future in politics and she's going to go for it. Godspeed. Godspeed. Walter Kern, Always a pleasure, my friend. See you soon.

[Walter Kern]

We'll see you soon.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Up next, we're going to take a deep dive into Lawfare, specifically involving Letitia James. I've been wanting to do this segment for a while. I'll explain why in a second. We'll be right back. More people today are looking beyond the standard approach when it comes to their health, especially in the fight against cancer. Two medications you've probably heard about, Ivermectin and Mebendazole are being researched for their off label potential to support cancer treatment. Studies suggest they may help inhibit cancer cell growth and make certain therapies more effective. All Family Pharmacy makes access to these trusted medications simple. Every order is reviewed by a licensed doctor for safety and prescriptions are provided when appropriate. It's a pharmacy that believes you should have the right to choose what's best for your health and not be limited by politics or big corporations. All Family Pharmacy offers Ivermectin, mebendazole and over 200 other essential medications, all shipped straight to your door. You want to check with your doctor, of course. Visit allfamilypharmacy.com Megan and use code MEGAN10 to save 10% on your order. That's allfamilypharmacy.com MEGAN to learn more. You know about FOMO, right? Fear of Missing Out Listen up. Don't miss out on protecting your future. For around the same price per month as one of your streaming services, you can break the FOMO cycle and secure your and your family's future by finding life [e-mail] select' takes the guesswork out of finding the right life insurance policy. You don't have to sort through dozens of confusing options on your own. Instead, one of their licensed agents will find the right policy at the right price for you. Comparing plans from trusted top rated insurance companies to find a policy that fits your health, your lifestyle and your budget. And they work for you for free. You know why I'm laughing? Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than [e-mail] Megan now this is actually is a great product. I've actually gotten lots of positive feedback on selectquote.com I'm laughing because they say you don't want FOMO and it's a life insurance ad. And we all know there is going to be moving whether or not we have the foe. And there's no life insurance company that can save us from mo. But we can protect our families by saving more than 50 on term life [e-mail] Megan Today.

[Donald Trump]

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[Meghan Markle]

Come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Know, the real you.

[Meghan Markle]

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[Megyn Kelly]

We are going on the road. Join me live, Megyn Kelly Live. 10 stops across the country. Join me for no BS, no agenda and no Fear Live. I'll be joined by Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Adam Perola, Charlie Sheen, Piers Morgan, Donald Trump Jr. Eric Trump and Erica Kirk. Send a message that we will not be silenced. It's Megyn Kelly Live, presented by Y refi and Sirius XM. Go to MeganKelly.com to get your tickets now. You can stream the Megan Megan Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

[Sam Antar]

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and.

[Walter Kern]

Get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MK show and get three months free offer details apply.

[Megyn Kelly]

As we've been telling you, on October 9th, the Department of Justice indicted New York State's Democrat Attorney General letitia James on one count of bank fraud and one count of false statements to a financial institution. Ms. James is accused of illegally obtaining favorable terms for a mortgage in Norfolk, Virginia that she described in her application as a second residence, a second home, when the feds say she actually used it as a rental investment property. Left leaning outlets have published article after article after article describing the case as incredibly weak. Some examples, ABC News on October 23, quote, evidence appears to undercut claims against Letitia James. Prosecutors found sources Politico, October 29, three words in Letitia James mortgage contract could doom the fraud case against her. And on it goes. Here's what I want to tell you. I said to my team, let's find out if there is anyone, anyone supporting this indictment, anyone defending it. I'm a lawyer. I like to see both sides. I couldn't find a single one. I'll show you. I'm going to put on the board the search results that I got both when I did an independent Google search and I went to ChatGPT. I looked and looked and looked. I couldn't find anything. And I said to my team, this. This is ridiculous. So I asked one of my top producers, former lawyer, former practicing lawyer, current lawyer still, we all are. See if you can find one. And he came up with one guy. And the reason we found this one guy is because he was being dumped on by the non lawyers [e-mail] they decided this one man who wrote an attempt to take an honest look at this, well, he's a fraudster. He's a convicted fraudster. So we can't. We can't listen to him. Okay? Now he's the one guy who's actually looking into this, saying the mainstream media has it all wrong and that Tish James is in big trouble. And his name is San and Sam Antarctica. His site is white collar fraud dot com. And Mr. Antar has quite an interesting background. He's now a financial fraud investigator, but previously he helped mastermind one of the largest security frauds of the 1980s when he was CFO of Crazy Eddie, Inc. You remember the Crazy Eddie commercials? Crazy Eddie? Oh, he was the CFO. And he was defrauding investors out of over $500 million, which he admits as he writes on his website. Yes, I'm a convicted felon. That's why I know fraud when I see it. Sam joins me now. Sam, hi. Thanks for being here. This is very interesting. I thought your analysis was very probative and helped me start asking the right questions. And as you point out in your piece online, there's a reason you knew where to look and how to determine for yourself whether there might be fire where this smoke is here. So just walk us through how this came to you in your first analysis.

[Sam Antar]

All right, first of all, I was looking into a lot of politicians in New York City, and I happened upon Letitia James. And one of the things I was looking at were her financial records that she had given to New York State. And on her financial records, in 2020, she purchases his home in Virginia on Peroni Avenue, 3121 Peroni Avenue. Then all of a sudden it showed no mortgage in 2020, no mortgage in 2021, and. And no mortgage in 2022. All of a sudden, in 2023, two mortgages pop up on that property. And the value of those mortgages exceeded the value that she stated on her financial disclosures. And as a forensic accountant, you take their word and you use it against them. So it said $400,000, approximately worth of mortgages, and it said $150,000 value. Her declarations, her signature. Not me, her. So what's the first red flag? Wow. Two mortgages exceeding the value of the property by more than double. So as a result, I ordered a title report, and what I found in the title report surprised me. The title report included a mortgage from when she purchased the property in 2020. It's called the OVM mortgage. And that mortgage was never disclosed in her financial disclosures to New York State. The two mortgages that were disclosed in her financial disclosures to New York state, they weren't on the property reports. I call up the county clerk's office. They're invisible. I call them phantom mortgages or unrecorded mortgages. So you have two things. You have two recorded mortgages exceeding the value of the property by more than double, and you have one mortgage that. That was never disclosed when she purchased the property. And the mortgage, all mortgages have to be disclosed. So what's going on here? So then I read the mortgage contract. You know, it's a progression. And I look at the mortgage contract, and she purchases it as a second home.

[Megyn Kelly]

So for the Peroni property in Norfolk, Virginia.

[Sam Antar]

Yeah, in Norfolk, West Norfolk, Virginia. So the first thing I do is I look at. It says second home. Fine. I'm going to look at the disclosure of the property. She says it's an investment property. An investment property is.

[Megyn Kelly]

And just to be clear, where does she say. Where does she say it's an investment property?

[Sam Antar]

Every public official in New York State has to file a financial disclosure listing their assets, their liabilities, their income, and so on. So on. Her financial disclosure, when she lists this property, she lists it as an investment property. She says in the first year that she. Her income from the property was 1 to $5,000. But on the mortgage itself, it said it was a second home.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, those two things cannot be the same thing. A second home cannot be an investment.

[Sam Antar]

Property because if you're buying it as a second home, it's a different underwriting standard than if you are buying it as an investment property. The liability insurance is different, the property insurance is different. And also the banks will look at it differently and underwrite it differently and require a higher down payment and. Or a higher interest rate.

[Megyn Kelly]

If it's an investment property, if it's a second home, they'll give you a little bit better deal because they think you're going to live in it. Right. Like, you get the best deal on your primary home, you get the next best Deal on your secondary home and you get probably the worst deal on an investment home because that's the one you're least likely to pay if you fall on hard times.

[Sam Antar]

And none of this, none of this, by the way, is in the media coverage. It's all ignored. It's kind of like, you know, they don't want to know the truth. This is in the media coverage. Everything that I do in my blog is in black and white, okay? I linked to every single document. It's all public domain. If I screw up, it's only because Letitia James screwed up. In other words, I rely exclusively on what she did and what she represented. So you have red flag number one. Next. Red flag is the media coverage of the indictment, okay? All of a sudden they're saying it's a weak case. It's never been brought before. So I'm going to bring you two. Two specific cases. One Supreme Court case called the United States versus Wells. And one of the things they said was, is that, you know, it. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't involve a lot of money. The bank didn't rely on it, whatever. The United States versus Wells specifically states, okay, that reliance by the bank on a false declaration is irrelevant. Damage to the bank on the false declaration is irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is the false declaration. And the United States in the United States versus Muhammad brought a very similar case on that. But they say there was never a case brought. So that. That's even more media and misinformation. The other generalized media, by the way.

[Megyn Kelly]

By the way, not for nothing, Sam, but that's the exact argument she was making against Donald Trump. Trump a few months ago in the case she brought against him for alleged fraud against a bank who wasn't complaining. She's very familiar with that legal principle.

[Sam Antar]

No offense to Donald Trump. I don't even like him. And I don't really care about that case. I am a forensic accountant focusing on this case. So to me, it's totally irrelevant. I don't like. I hate when these pundits bring up these other stuff and they say that, no, this is this case. The evidence is there. The documents were signed by her. Now, they miss a lot of things that are in the indictment, okay? And they probably purposely does. For instance, nobody mentions paragraph nine of the indictment, that is the insurance clause. She said that it was she. That she was going to occupy the property. Well, guess what? There's a Schedule e on paragraph 10 of the indictment that says that she took no personal Days on the property.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wait, hold the roll. Slow your roll. Stand by. I want to walk the audience through this because the language is, it's right there, black and white, and we can just, we can read it. What exactly she promised in the second home rider clause that you looked up, that this is what she promised in getting the mortgage borrower will occupy and use the property as her second home. Okay, so she's promising I will occupy it and I will use it as my second home and I will also maintain exclusive control over the occupancy of the property, including short term rentals. Now there's another important. And all of that's going to become relevant. She promised to occupy it. She promised to use it. It. She promised to maintain exclusive control over it. And her side is capitalizing on the including short term rentals, which we'll get to in a minute. But there's another, there's another piece of the same paragraph which you've been calling attention to where she says, I also promise to keep the property available primarily as a residence for my personal use and enjoyment for at least one year. These are all legal terms of art. My personal use and enjoyment. Personal use and enjoyment has meaning in the law. And we're going to get to what that means. Here's a hint. It does not mean you never ever go and you just let your weird cousin or third grand niece use it. Go ahead, you take it now, Sam.

[Sam Antar]

And it's contradicted, okay, by our own disclosures to the Internal Revenue Service.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, but wait, wait, wait, wait. But I'm just, I'm trying to keep it super simple so everybody can follow because you have very sophisticated analysis. Can we start with the promise that she will occupy and use the property as her second home? Did she live up to that?

[Sam Antar]

No. And what they're trying to say, well, it did allow short term rentals. Well, it wasn't a short term rental. It was fully occupied every day by a family member. She can't tell the IRS one thing and tell the bank another thing. That's illegal. That's perjury. That is fraud. Now she, even the, the fa, the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac basically says when you're talking about primarily, it has to be more than 180, 183 days or more.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that. Now just, just to be clear, you're jumping down to that second part of the paragraph that I read where she promised to keep the property available primarily as a residence for my personal use and enjoyment for at least one year. So now we're looking into. Well, what does that mean? Did she, did she do that? Did she keep it available for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year? Go ahead.

[Sam Antar]

Well, if she did, then she committed income tax evasion. She took depreciation deductions that she wasn't supposed to take. She took all kinds of expenses that she wasn't supposed to declare on a tax return. So you choose, you want to be a tax evader or you want to be a mortgage fraudster.

[Megyn Kelly]

And the reason she was able to take those tax deductions was because to the irs, she listed it as an investment property, and she, she deducted expenses that she incurred as a result of the property, and she disclosed some of those payments she got from the family, like for. For utilities and so on to the irs. So you're saying none of that support her using it primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year?

[Kamala Harris]

Yes.

[Sam Antar]

So to summarize her schedule, Lee, that she files with the irs, says zero personal days. Okay. She says on her mortgage application and on her mortgage that she's going to be the primary resident. Both cannot be true. Now, there's another dimension of income tax because it's going to be superseding indictments. You always. This doesn't understand. She didn't commit mortgage fraud on one property. She committed it on three properties over a period of 42 years. There's a pattern here, and that pattern is admissible even if they don't bring the other two cases, which I believe they will. Okay. Now on Schedule E, okay, if you are renting it to a relative, which she says she did.

[Walter Kern]

Right.

[Sam Antar]

And she's claiming now that the relative was paying under fair market value.

[Donald Trump]

Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Then $7,000 over a year is definitely not fair amount. Fair value in Norfolk.

[Walter Kern]

Right.

[Sam Antar]

It's definitely not fair value in Norfolk. Then she's got another problem, because if you're renting it to a relative under market value, the difference between the real market value and the amount that you're receiving is taxable. Is taxable income to you. It's. There's, there's no way out for her. And that's what people don't understand.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wait, it's not taxable income to Tish. Wouldn't it be taxable income to the family member staying inside?

[Sam Antar]

It would be, yes. It would be taxable income to the. It would be taxable income to the family members. But here's the other thing on if she has been renting it below fair market value on Schedule E. Right. She supposed to say. No, she's supposed to say all of those. No personal days are personal days. And if they are personal days, she did. She. She also falsified the tax return. If that's the case, in other words, ever. I can't.

[Megyn Kelly]

I get it. No, no, hold on.

[Meghan Markle]

Let me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let me try to say.

[Sam Antar]

But I can tell you every answer she gives causes another problem.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, if she's counting the relatives staying in the Norfolk home as, quote, personal days, then she has misstated the facts to the IRS to whom she represented. There were no personal days. If she's not counting. If she's saying that there were no personal days via the. The family members, that those did not count as personal days, and that's why her IRS disclosures said no personal days, then she's violated the terms of the mortgage where she promised she would keep the property available primarily as a residence for borrowers personal use and enjoyment for at least one year. And I actually looked it up myself, Sam, and here's what I found. This is. According to case law interpreting the Fannie and the Freddie mortgage application that we just went through, a borrower cannot spend zero time at the property if the mortgage is for a primary or secondary residence. If the mortgage application has that term for borrowers personal use and enjoyment language. If so, if is the Fannie and the Freddie mortgage requires that you. You. You promise you'll use it for your own personal use and enjoyment for at least one year, primarily that you may not spend zero time there, because this language has been found to imply a requirement for occupancy. A requirement the borrower must occupy the property for more than half of the calendar year if it is a second home, meaning they can't even leave it for extended period. So if that is the law, she's toast because she even. She's not alleging she was in this property for more than half a year, which means she did not live up to the mortgage terms.

[Sam Antar]

No, she did not. And then you have the insurance for it. Now everybody's making fun of Lindsey Halligan. They call her the MAGA beauty queen. She's an insurance lawyer. Well, guess what? Is also insurance fraud because she told the insurance company that she was going to occupy the property.

[Megyn Kelly]

Property.

[Sam Antar]

So pick your fraud, insurance fraud, income tax evasion, whatever you. Mortgage fraud, whatever you want. And then they're acting like, oh, it's a clerical error. Well, guess what? On a Brooklyn property, which is not part of the indictment, which I think will be as superseding indictments, come out. She lied on 10 mortgages over 20 years. She said that the property was four units. Units versus the actual certificate of occupancy that says five units. Now why is that a big difference? Because a five unit property is considered commercial for underwriting and insurance standards, whereas four or less, you get a non commercial policy and commercial policies are much more expensive. And also commercial mortgages are much more expensive. And you have another property where she claimed that a few days before the Trump trial that that was going to be a price primary residence. I mean, this is not one isolated instance where Sam Antar says, gotcha, this is a pattern of fraudulent behavior. And even if they don't indict under the federal rules of discovery, and I'm not a lawyer like you are, but under the federal rules, you can introduce that evidence.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. You can introduce patterns. You can introduce pattern evidence. Yes, you can. That's how they got Harvey Weinstein in his criminal case. This will be a different way of doing it. I mean, they could potentially, potentially, if they can convince a Brooklyn, the Eastern District of New York prosecutor to do it, they could have that person join in this prosecution and say she did it too in Brooklyn. Your Honor, I don't know if they'd go that far if they'd have a prosecutor willing to do it. But I do think it's very interesting. I mean, here's the bottom line as I see it. She promised through this second home rider that she would occupy and use the property as her second home. She certified to the IRS that she had zero days of personal use at that first year at all. Now maybe there's some backdoor where she says my family living there qualifies as personal use. Okay, if is that, if that maybe that gets her out of the covenant to occupy and use the property, though I really don't know. I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt. There's a second covenant in here where she promised that she would keep the property available in addition to occupying use available primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year. So while she was allowed to do rentals, per that one clause, you could do for one year. It was supposed to be available primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment. And the case law that is interpreted this Fanny and Freddie rider has said that means she needs to have been in it for at least half the year, which she wasn't in that first year. I don't think she was there at all.

[Sam Antar]

You don't? You know, Megan, you're on top. You have a law degree, but you're not really practicing, practicing law.

[Megyn Kelly]

All of these I did for 10 years.

[Sam Antar]

Supposed to be experts, and they're practicing law. Why can't they do what you just did?

[Megyn Kelly]

Because they hate Trump so much and they, some of them I don't like.

[Sam Antar]

But the law is the law.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, well, that's, that's my. And you know, I, it's way more important to me to be honest with my audience than it is for me to run cover for Trump. Trump or attack his enemies. Way more important to me that I maintain my big.

[Sam Antar]

Here's the thing.

[Megyn Kelly]

That in honest analysis, this is a.

[Sam Antar]

Result of Donald Trump's vendetta. I brought the case to the feds. I found the case. I brought the case to the feds. Donald Trump doesn't pay me. I'm a Democrat. I don't that even a Republican. Okay, I, I was the one that brought the case. Nobody else.

[Megyn Kelly]

I brought it. Who did you bring it to, Sam?

[Sam Antar]

What?

[Megyn Kelly]

Who'd you bring it to?

[Sam Antar]

First of all, look at my history. I trained law enforcement for over 20, 30 years after crazy Eddies. I've done whistleblower cases for major law firms. I've helped them prosecute class action lawsuits, etc. People read my blog and they follow it, and sometimes they'll call and ask questions, or sometimes they'll have an email and I'll explain further, just like when your people contacted me. So this is not something that, you know, I pick up the phone, hey, Donald, guess what? I got a fraud for you. I got to let you, James, that's not what happened. This is part of a process. This is what I do. I solve puzzles.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you, did you contact anybody, though, in the administration?

[Sam Antar]

What?

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you contact anybody?

[Sam Antar]

Contact with the administration? But I have had contact with law enforcement within the government dealing with this case, as they should have contact with me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, yeah, I mean, you're an expert witness on this. You know, for reasons we discussed, I don't have any expert witnesses.

[Sam Antar]

The documents speak for themselves. Yeah, documents speak for themselves.

[Megyn Kelly]

The problem is it's confusing. It's confusing if you don't understand, you.

[Sam Antar]

Know, it's confusing because the media makes it confusing. Okay. When you get in front of a jury and you lay it all out, it won't be confusing because you won't have to deal with the spin and this and that. That's why we have trials.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, well, I think the bottom line here is don't believe what the media is Telling you, this actually is more complicated a case than it looks. It's not some simple open and shut in Tish James favor. If anything.

[Sam Antar]

She wasn't allowed to rent it out for more than 182 days, right? That's what the mortgage clause says. The mortgage clause says a failure to do that is material. They claimed it was immaterial. That's something we didn't bring up. Her insurance policy contradicts her mortgage. She said she was going to be the primary occupant. Okay. The schedule E on our tax return also contradicts her mortgage. So what do you want to do? Take your pick. Which fraud do you want? She's in an inescapable position and she knows it. So what is she trying to do? She's trying to try it in the press. Go ahead and try it. Yo, what kind of behavior is it for a district U.S. a state attorney general? You have to get through all of us. She's not a mob boss. She's an officer of the court. And she should know better. She can.

[Kamala Harris]

Should.

[Sam Antar]

She should conduct herself with class. She's got no class. And. And that's what I have to say.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. She's. I should note, of course, denied the charges. She says she is totally innocent of the charges and that she looks forward to proving that.

[Sam Antar]

You know, when they came after me, I was totally innocent, too.

[Megyn Kelly]

Till you were.

[Sam Antar]

I denied.

[Megyn Kelly]

How long did you serve for?

[Sam Antar]

Oh, I had a very, very rough time. Six months of house arrest. So no prison? Jail.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, okay. Okay. Nothing. I won't. I'll keep it to myself. Well, thank you for writing the piece. It gave me a lot to chew on, and I really appreciate it, Sam.

[Sam Antar]

You ever need me on again, let me know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you very much. I have a feeling we will. All the best to you. So hopefully that was clarifying to you that at a minimum, it's a lot more complicated than the mainstream media wants you to believe. This mortgage law and insurance law and tax law is no joke. And even if these terms have different meanings, you know, like I asked myself, you know, personal use days, does that have a different meaning with the IRS than it does in real estate law? And I actually think it does. Does have a different use, but I don't see how she gets around. The fact that this. Keep the property available primarily as a residence for your personal use and enjoyment appears to mean, according to the case law, interpreting the Fannie and Freddie mortgages appears to mean that the. That the borrower is not allowed to spend zero time there and that the borrower is saying that they will occupy the property for more than half the calendar year if it's a second home. And she just didn't do that. I don't even see her claiming that she did that. At best, she's claiming she spent days down there from time to time. That's not gonna do it. So all I'm asking is keep an open mind, okay? Keep an open mind on this and we'll see how it goes. If it's just as clear as some others say, then this will get dismissed on the papers. And if it's not, we're gonna have a trial. Okay? We are back tomorrow live on the Megyn Kelly Channel. It's our first day of channel 111 on SiriusXM being the Megyn Kelly Channel. And we will kick it off with Matt Walsh and vdh. Big one. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.

[Meghan Markle]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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