Trump's Action-Packed Day One, and Ridiculous Media Spin on Elon "Salute," with Charles C.W. Cooke and Rich Lowry | Ep. 987

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show - Episode 987 Summary

Release Date: January 21, 2025

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Megyn Kelly Show
• Host/Author: SiriusXM
• Description: The Megyn Kelly Show is your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. No BS. No agenda. And no fear.
• Episode: Trump's Action-Packed Day One, and Ridiculous Media Spin on Elon "Salute," with Charles C.W. Cooke and Rich Lowry | Ep. 987

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I. Introduction and Inauguration Day Reflections

Megyn Kelly opens the episode with her personal reflections on the first full day of President Trump's second term. She shares her mixed emotions of euphoria and craziness, describing the inauguration festivities as both exhilarating and logistically challenging.

• Quote: "I feel euphoric and also just, like, crazed. My brain, I feel like somebody put my head in some sort of a blender." [00:00]

Kelly discusses the stringent security measures in Washington D.C., highlighting the difficulties civilians faced in navigating through tight security zones during the inauguration events.

• Quote: "How many assassination attempts do you need to have on a president before they start to lock down cities?" [04:20]

II. Trump's Unwavering Energy and Inaugural Actions

Kelly praises President Trump’s boundless energy and commitment, contrasting it with her own introverted nature.

• Quote: "He's a true extrovert. He is energized by socialization, by attention, by interacting with other people." [15:53]

She notes Trump's immediate commencement of his agenda, signing dozens of executive orders and maintaining a high level of activity from the Capitol One Arena to the Oval Office.

III. Executive Orders and Policy Shifts

The discussion transitions to the numerous executive orders signed by Trump on his first day, focusing on key areas such as immigration, energy, and gender policies.

• Quote: "On biological sex, because, you know, you've heard us talk about this, but gender is not a thing." [16:45]

Kelly commends the crafting of these orders, attributing their success to figures like May Mailman and Stephen Miller, whom she describes as "geniuses" behind the policy frameworks.

IV. Presidential Pardons and Legal Controversies

A significant portion of the episode delves into the controversial pardons issued by Trump, particularly those related to the January 6th (J6) defendants. Kelly and her guests critique the blanket nature of these pardons, arguing they undermine the rule of law.

Rich Lowry expresses concern over the breadth of the pardons, suggesting a more case-by-case approach would have been appropriate.

• Quote: "These pardons cover people who fought with cops, assaulted cops, and anyone who does that, I don't care whether they're on the right or the left, in between, political, not political, deserves to go to jail." [26:13]

Charles C.W. Cooke echoes these sentiments, advocating for constitutional amendments to restrict the pardon power, which he deems problematic in its current state.

V. Immigration Policies and Border Security

Trump's aggressive stance on immigration is a focal point, with discussions on the "Remain in Mexico" policy and the declaration of an emergency at the border.

• Quote: "President Trump has declared an emergency at the border, has declared an invasion, which gives him all sorts of powers." [37:00]

Kelly and her guests support the crackdown on illegal immigration, emphasizing the need for robust border security measures and policy reforms to prevent abuse of the asylum process.

VI. Withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord and Environmental Policies

Trump's decision to exit the Paris Climate Accord is analyzed, with emphasis on its economic and constitutional implications.

• Quote: "We should never have been in that agreement. We should not be in any agreement that restricts our ability to grow our economy." [41:26]

Charles C.W. Cooke lauds this move as a return to constitutional principles and economic pragmatism, criticizing the accord for hindering American industrial growth while allowing other nations like China to continue heavy pollution.

VII. Elon Musk Salute Controversy and Media Spin

A heated segment covers the alleged "Heil Hitler" salute by Elon Musk during a Trump rally, which became a major media controversy.

• Quote: "Is this the stupidest controversy you've seen in a while?" [64:26]

Kelly critiques the media's quickness to label Musk's gesture as a Nazi salute without substantive evidence, arguing it’s an overreach fueled by "Trump Derangement Syndrome."

Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke defend Musk, asserting that the gesture was misinterpreted and that accusations of Nazism are baseless and defamatory.

• Quote: "He did not do all of the pardons." [16:45]
• Quote: "This is a poisonous, it's beneath contempt, by the way." [68:07]

VIII. Personal Stories and Cultural Battles

Kelly shares personal anecdotes and updates on individuals like Jody Shaw, who faced repercussions at Smith College for opposing DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives.

• Quote: "Jody Shaw worked in an administrative capacity at Smith College, and she was an alum of Smith." [103:18]

Shaw's courageous stance against enforced racial discussions at her workplace is highlighted as emblematic of the broader cultural wars facing American institutions.

IX. Concluding Remarks and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Kelly emphasizes the ongoing battles against "woke" ideologies and the importance of supporting individuals like Jody Shaw who stand up against systemic discrimination.

• Quote: "It's up to them. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we've got to talk about what Trump did in the Oval Office last night..." [90:25]

Kelly underscores the necessity of continued resistance and the collective effort needed to uphold traditional values and principles in the face of persistent cultural shifts.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Megyn Kelly: "I feel euphoric and also just, like, crazed. My brain, I feel like somebody put my head in some sort of a blender." [00:00]

• Megyn Kelly: "He does not divulge all the secrets, but he had some fun with it." [15:53]

• Rich Lowry: "These pardons cover people who fought with cops, assaulted cops... deserves to go to jail." [26:13]

• Charles C.W. Cooke: "I would favor [restricting the pardon power]. I'm with the anti Federalists on this." [25:04]

• Megyn Kelly: "We have weeks, months, years, even decades to reform the system." [Not timestamped]

• Rich Lowry: "He's a complete force of nature. He's unstoppable." [19:17]

• Charles C.W. Cooke: "An enormous amount happened. It was a mixture of continuity in government and change." [15:53]

• Megyn Kelly: "But we're done. We're done being manipulated by them." [Not timestamped]

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Trump’s Immediate Policy Actions: The swift signing of executive orders signifies a proactive approach to governing, with significant implications for immigration, energy, and gender policies.

2. Controversial Pardons: The blanket pardoning of J6 defendants raises questions about the use of executive power and its impact on the justice system’s integrity.

3. Media Bias and Misinformation: The Elon Musk salute incident illustrates perceived media overreach and bias, reinforcing the guests’ perspective on "Trump Derangement Syndrome."

4. Cultural Wars in Institutions: Personal stories like Jody Shaw’s highlight the resistance against DEI initiatives in educational institutions, reflecting broader national debates on race and identity.

5. Environmental Policy Reversals: The withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord is portrayed as a necessary correction to previous administrations’ policies that hindered economic growth.

6. Immigration and Border Security: Strong advocacy for stringent immigration controls underscores the administration’s commitment to national security and economic stability.

7. Public Sentiment and National Unity: Kelly emphasizes the collective effort required to overcome cultural divisions, advocating for unity and resistance against progressive ideological impositions.

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Conclusions

The episode provides a comprehensive overview of President Trump’s first day back in office, highlighting his relentless pace in implementing policy changes and addressing key national issues. Through discussions with Charles C.W. Cooke and Rich Lowry, Kelly delves into the controversies surrounding pardons, immigration policies, and media portrayals of figures like Elon Musk. Personal narratives underscore the ongoing cultural battles within American institutions, emphasizing the need for resilience and unified resistance against systemic "woke" policies. The overarching theme centers on reclaiming traditional values and ensuring the nation’s policies align with the majority’s will, free from biased media narratives and overreaching institutional mandates.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and the first full day of President Trump's second term. Do you feel relieved? I feel euphoric and also just, like, crazed. My brain, I feel like somebody put my head, like, in some sort of a blender. Like, I want to tell you that we had a wonderful trip, like, actually seeing Trump, you know, take the oath of office. I mean, I actually didn't witness it in person. I mean, via, you know, television like you guys. But being there for it, being at the rally, all this stuff was euphoric. I mean, it was just the dawn of a new day, and you could feel it in every way, shape and form. But the logistics around the inauguration festivities around D.C. were just extremely challenging. And it was the talk of the town because you'd show up at any event and they had this place locked down, totally understandably. My God, how many assassination attempts do you need to have on a president before they start to lock down cities? But it was so challenging to get from A to B, whether it was, you know, the arena where, you know, I was speaking for Trump. So you think you, you know, be a little easier to get in. But at turn after turn after turn, you had Secret Service at every block and then the next block and the next block, and then you just try to get through and try to get through and try to get through. And civilians, you know, people who are not speaking times that by 100. And then at the balls, you know, you'd go, but you couldn't get anywhere near the actual ball unless you happened to be at the right hotel and got on a right shuttle bus. And then whatever, if you were somebody like me or most people, you had to walk maybe four, five, six long blocks in. I mean, it was like just over zero with biting wind chill, and the ladies are in ball gowns, yours truly included. So we're freezing, right? So, of course, I did have my new fur coat, by the way. I was right. PETA did send me an email about it. And I'm going to tell you something. I, I kind of love PETA. I, I, I am somebody who eats animals and wears you animal products. But I, I have a soft spot in my heart for these guys because they've been trying to convert me for many, many years. And they do it really nicely, like they're not jerks about it. Anyway, I'll, I'll tell you about that. But I did wear my fur, and I have to tell you, it made a big difference. It really did keep me warm, at least on the areas that it was covering. But that doesn't include, you know, the bottom of your legs and your hands and your face and your head and so on. And I was with my family too, so they. We were all so cold and everybody was so cold. So then you get to the eventual destination and, you know, you go to an inaugural ball. There are thousands of people there, you guys. Thousands. The one we went to is in Union Station. And we're like, how are they going to have a coat check for thousands of people? Well, that was a good question because it was full. But, you know, shortly after they got started. So then everybody's in there wearing their coats over their ball gowns and there's tuxedos in it. That's slightly awkward too. So then we just wound up dumping our coats in a big pile. And I was thinking, well, that's seems irresponsible with my new fur, which Maureen Callahan told me to say was vintage and passed down from my mom. Anyway, we did it because I didn't want to carry it around. Nobody stole it, but it just. Okay, that's enough complaining. I needed to get. Get it off my chest. We flew back early this morning. I'm not going to lie. My daughter Yeardley got very bad motion sickness, so there was vomit in my morning today. Then my son got a bloody nose in the car on the way, like the altitude and the extreme cold. Then Sarah, my hairstylist, who's also a friend and amazing, had a mishap with the airplane tray table, which hit her in the head as she was dealing with a migraine. So it's been that kind of a morning. I literally just got into my place at 11:30 and smacked on some makeup. I still thankfully have my overnight hair from yesterday evening, so pulled it together. One final thing. The highlight of the trip for me was all of you. I met so many MK show viewers and listeners, and what a joy. What a true joy. You know, I have this image in my head of like, who watches the show, who listens to the show. And I picture very savvy, smart, street smart, book smart. Both people listening to the show and in my mind, I've got to tell you, you're all very attractive. And I think I'm right. Everybody I met who listens to the show or watches the show, every single person was beautiful. I'm like, this is wonderful. I appreciate the fact that Such lovely people in every sense of the word are tuning in. And I feel like we all did this together. So notwithstanding the logistical challenges of D.C. in trying to protect the President and the Cabinet and the Supreme Court on a weekend such as this, I had a wonderful time because of all of you, and all of you are the reason President Trump was sworn in AS47 on Monday. So thank you. Okay, so we were busy. And as much as we started to complain about fatigue, we would just think about Donald Trump and we would stop. I don't. How does he do it? How does he do it? We were talking like, I, I'm 25 years younger than Trump. Sarah, my hairstylist, who I mentioned, she's 34. We were exhausted. Abigail Finan, we weren't sure. We talked this morning whether she's 37 or 38. What did we settle on, Abs? We think she's 38. He, he energizes us under the table. And not the kind of statement like that, like they say about Joe Biden, for real. I mean, he actually does. The man is tireless. How does a 78 year old keep up the schedule he kept up yesterday? He, he's a true extrovert. He is energized by socialization, by attention, by interacting with other people. And maybe it's just that, like, at heart, I'm more of an introvert, so I find it more exhausting. But he, I'm in awe of how he handles this demanding schedule. He's cut to be president. He's cut out of the perfect cloth for the job. So he yesterday got right to work, as he said he would. We talked about this on the show a bit yesterday. He signed dozens of executive orders throughout the day. He started at that little desk at the Capitol One arena, and he kept it going late into the evening, sitting in the Oval Office, like taking questions like you were just over for tea, you know, he's just like, yeah, fire him at me. The part, we'll get to it. But Peter Doocy, firing questions to him about whether Joe Biden left him. You know, the note that they all leave one another. The President's in the Resolute desk. It's so classic Trump. It's casual, it's off the cuff, you know, sure, I'll tell you all the presidential secrets. Sure. But he, typical Trump, he knew exactly where to draw the line. He actually didn't divulge all the secrets, but he had some fun with it. It's just, you can tell there's a new energy in Town, you can tell things are changing immediately and there'll be controversies and already there are, and I don't care. I've got to tell you, I don't care. I'm still, I'm still busy being euphoric over the fact that he's in there, that he's going to close the border and that he knows the difference between a man and a woman. We did find out more details on that beautiful executive order on women yesterday. I'm going to say on, on biological sex, because, you know, you've heard us talk about this, but gender is not a thing. Gender's made up. Biological sex is real. And that's really what this order says. We. I didn't know who drafted it because I got to read the whole thing today. It's perfection. Okay. You know, we talk about this issue on the show a lot. It's perfection. In my wildest dreams, I couldn't have drafted something this beautiful on this issue. And it turns out, and I tweeted out this morning, who wrote this? And it turns out it was May Mailman of the Independent Women's Forum who's been on this show. She came on after title nine on that barn burner of a show that we dropped, that we had very fierce women who have been standing up for women's rights. And she was one of them. This is a no bullshit attorney who works for iwf. She's at the top of it, and she wrote this thing along with beautiful editing, I'm told, by Stephen Miller, Remember white supremacist Stephen Miller, who's been responsible for a lot of the southern border policies under Trump 1 and now under Trump, too. That guy is a genius. He's a genius. He's. I saw him on a Sunday. He spoke before me at that Trump rally. And he does not get enough credit for being, as I called him publicly, sort of the magic behind the man. There's Trump who's got ideas and goals, and he's got, you know, the resolution to, to do something, but then he needs policy guys to actually write it up and enact it. That's Stephen Miller, among other very talented people. So tip of the hat to May, to Stephen and anybody else who worked on that thing of beauty. Okay? Today, Trump is attending a national prayer service. That's before he meets with Republican congressional leaders and makes a major announcement about infrastructure at 4pm Eastern from the White House. That's interesting. I don't think we were expecting a big infrastructure announcement. So what's he gonna say? Can't wait to find out. So much to get to we were brilliant on our own show if I do say so myself. It wasn't me, it was my booker and my executive producer and my producers. But we booked an NR day for today, the first full day of the Trump term, which is after ideal because you need super smart people who are politically savvy and no bullshit. And that is why we have on Charles C.W. cook, senior editor at the National Review and host of the Charles C.W. cook podcast and Rich Lowry, editor in chief of NR. You can find all their work ad free with an NR plus membership. Increased tariffs on our trade partners, tax cuts and regulation changes. There's a reason why Gold is a diversification tactic now more than ever, Birch Gold is releasing their Ultimate Guide for Gold in the Trump Era with a foreword by Donald Trump Jr. To get your free copy along with Birch Gold's free information kit on gold. Text MK to the number 989898. Here are the facts. The national debt continues to increase. Our interest payments on the national debt continue to increase. So gold is an important option and it can be your hedge against a weakened dollar. Birchgold can convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered IRA in gold. Text MK to 989-898 for your free copy of the Ultimate Guide for Gold in the Trump Era. There's no obligation, just information with an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau, countless five star reviews and thousands of happy customers. Find out more about Birch Gold. There is a reason so many people love these guys and take all or just a small part of their existing IRAs and move them over into gold with birch. Text MK to the number 989-898 today. Charlie and Rich, welcome back. Wait, and I just wanna say one more thing. Now truly is the time to get an NR plus membership. But here's why. Because in the dawn in the era of Trump, there's nonsense everywhere in all publications. You know the Trump Derangement Syndrome Syndrome's real. The left is already going nuts. Elon Musk is a Nazi. That's their latest narrative and you can't trust them. You know that. Now NR has its differences with Trump and has not been shy about them, including you two guys. But they're actual Republicans, they're actual conservatives and they probably love 90% of the Trump agenda. So you will find truly fair coverage at National Review. You may occasionally, if you're a die hard Trumper, be ticked off that somebody says something not that great about Trump. You can Handle it. You're grownups. We're not the left. We, we don't cry in our soup over those things. But you'll get actual coverage of real facts. They don't deviate from facts just because they may have a beef occasionally with Trump, which is not a constant thing with these guys. So, anyway, that's from the heart. I'm not just saying it because you guys are here. I've said it many times. Welcome to the show, you guys.

[Rich Lowry]

Thanks, Megan, by the way, you're recounting of what it was like last night in Washington is why I got jaded about inaugurals a long time ago. Too cold, too crowded, too inconvenient. And the coat checks are always a nightmare. Always. They've been nightmare for decades. No, if Trump's really going to be effective in Washington, he'll, he'll fix the coat check situation at inaugural balls, but I think that's even beyond his powers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Megan, the whole system needs to be redone. We, like, I know it's pursuant to the Constitution, we have to do this thing on January 20th. June 20th would be so much more pleasant. May in D.C. is absolutely gorgeous. I mean, we wouldn't have wanted Joe Biden to stick around an extra few months so that there's that problem. It doesn't solve anything by moving it to November, you know, the sixth or whatever, the day after the election. Cause it's still gonna be cold then. But January 20th in D.C. is not great. And I don't know what the solution is other than finding some arena that holds a couple like 500,000 people. Or we can all join together. Charles, what did you make of the past three days?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Well, a lot happened in the past three days, right? We had Joe Biden's absolutely bizarre exit from the presidency. Not just the pardons yesterday, but his declaration of a 28th amendment that doesn't exist and his refusal to enforce the TikTok Bill that he signed. Then we had a whirlwind Inauguration Day with a whole bunch of executive orders, most of them good, most of them welcome, couple of which I think are illegal. And then Trump's own pardons last night of pretty much everyone involved with January 6th. So it really is a time for news. I did notice certain journalists complaining that there was too much news for them to cover. But of course, it must be quite the transition from them. They took four years off, and now.

[Megyn Kelly]

Those are the same people who probably associate with the progressive staffers on Capitol Hill who wrote that letter demanding a 32 hour work week. And you know, 40 hours was just too much for them. And even they got shamed so much even by fellow Democrats that they had to withdraw their stupid letter.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah, I mean, that was just preposterous. It's a very weird side trend in our politics at the moment, which is progressives trying to unionize everything as if they're coal miners. People who work in congressional offices or newspapers talking about, about the travails of their day. They need a 32 hour week. But anyway, so an enormous amount happened. It was odd because at one level there was a massive amount of change. Yesterday you saw the shifts in policy, legitimate shifts in policy, of areas that have been delegated to the President by Congress. On sex, as in sex versus gender, as you say, on energy, on foreign policy, on immigration. But then there was some continuity. Both Trump and Biden refused to enforce the TikTok bill. And both Trump and Biden issued some questionable pardons. And both Trump and Biden tried to change the Constitution by fiat. So it was a mixture of continuity in government and change.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's so funny that neither one of those was like a huge headline, you know, like, right, the media totally ignored this brand new amendment, constitutional amendment that Biden just declared by tweet. And I wouldn't even say that Trump with a birthright citizenship is the lead in most papers. It's like the Constitution can't be amended by presidential fiat and it can't be undone by presidential fiat either. Trump and I actually, you know, we got into this when I interviewed him about a year ago, like, it's really tough to undo birthright citizenship, but he's at least got an argument, unlike Biden. You know, Rich, the argument on birthright citizenship is that subject to the jurist and born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. And that's what even some very smart legal scholars will say. That actually is an opening. And it's worth having the argument.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, there's ambiguity there, there's an argument about it. Probably need Congress to do it rather than do it by executive order. Even if there is an opening there to say illegal aliens, their children aren't natural born citizens. But just the last 24 hours, complete show of force and completely what we were told was going to happen. And I think there's just been this through line of consistency, pretty much everything Trump said over the last year or two that he's going to do what he said in his inaugural address he was going to do and what he did. Now maybe you can say, you know, J.D. vance and others. Pam Bondi said there was going to be a case by case evaluation, the January 6th defendants. I think that would have been a better idea instead of this sweeping pardons. But you can't be surprised that he pardoned these people in some form or the. Right. Because it's exactly what he said he was going to do. And the contrast, by the way, this.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is not the first time that JD has tried to say like, this is what Trump's going to do and then Trump does his own thing. So, like, be, I'm not saying JD doesn't, you know, know what's going on. But when it comes to Trump, only Trump can speak for Trump, you know, like trust Trump's word. And, you know, even if he said to JD in the moment, I'm not going to pardon everyone, I'm going to like not I'm going to leave like the alleged violent offenders still in prison, maybe he changed his mind. And technically he didn't pardon everyone. He pardoned almost all of them. And then he commuted the sentences of the ones who are sort of in the worst category. Sorry, keep going, Rich. I interrupted.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, no, just the deeper point, though, is that you wouldn't, you're not surprised, right? He said he was going to do this now. So he's, he campaigned on what he wanted to do and now he's doing it probably sets a new standard, right? We've the old FDR standard is what are you going to do in your first hundred days now? The new standard probably, what are your first 100 executive orders going to be? And maybe it'd be better if we still had to focus more on what you're going to get through Congress in the first hundred days. But the energy is unstoppable. I remember someone, a reporter who, significantly younger than Trump, traveled with him in 2016. It was just totally exhausted, dragging around. And he recounted, there's just one moment where he saw a little bit of fatigue on the part of Donald Trump. He'd done a rally in Las Vegas that was stopped at 2:00am Eastern Standard Time, where they'd started the day or something like that. When they got in the car leaving the rally, Trump said, this guy don't speak, and closed his eyes to rest us briefly. But he's, he's a complete force of nature. He's, he's unstoppable.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's what I say to Doug in the mornings when we wake up and he pops right out of bed and he's ready to chit chat and get the day started. And I'm a much slower riser. It takes me a while to become alert, and that's what I say. Don't, don't, don't speak. Don't speak. Does anyone know that movie reference? Don't speak. Don't speak. I'll give you a clue. Diane Wiest says it. You can email me megan kelly.com. okay, so the J6 pardons, they are freaking out about, they're very upset, but I, I, it just feels like they've waived the right to really make this a thing after Joe Biden's preemptive pardons for his entire family for Fauci going back to 2014. Okay, again, we talked about this on the show yesterday, but why does Fauci need a pardon going back to 20, 20, 14? I really think it has to do with, that's the gain of function research back then and how deeply his hands were in it through Peter Dasak's group and this Wuhan lab. Anyway, the point is they've ceded. And you see the list of presidential pardons. Have you guys seen this tweet that's going around? It's like Bill Clinton, you know, 800, George W. Bush, 400. Joe Biden, 8,000. It's like, how can they complain, Rich?

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, well, they wanted to get the 8,000 number, right? Or thousands to try to pretty up the one that this was all about Hunter Biden and the family business and by extension now the other family members. But they wanted to create the sense that this just extremely merciful president just happens that his son was one of the thousands of people who benefited from his pardons and commutations. And you know, I think if you're a Fauci or a Millie, you wouldn't want the, the pardon. It, it doesn't, it's not formally a statement of guilt, but there's an odor of guilt about it. But both of them actually said they, they did want it just for peace of mind. But the better way to do this if in the off chance they were getting prosecuted, was just fight it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Rich Lowry]

What, what crime? I think he's hasn't been honest in front of Congress and the gain of function stuff was, was bad. But is he really committed a crime? You know, what crime is, Liz, Cheney committed that that this speech and debate clause wouldn't cover even if there is a crime there. So it's just typical of what we saw the last four years. The guy who's warning about the rule of law and what a threat his potential successor is is going to be to it is not playing by the rules himself at all.

[Megyn Kelly]

And the statement about how inconvenient and trying the process is, you know, it's like just. Just having to go through the legal process after one is indicted. That's reason enough for me to do this. It's like, hello, preacher, you're the one causing this ailment in the Republican Party. I mean, tell it to Steve Bannon. You know, tell it to Donald Trump. Tell it to Paul Manafort. Like, we could keep going. There are a lot of people under Trump who, who have been in the crosshairs of Biden's doj. And, you know, one person Biden did not. Did not pardon is himself. So it's like, just be careful. Like, you don't want to poke this bear too much. Here is Simone Sanders, who is a spokesperson. She used to be with Bernie Sanders, and she went on to this White House and her take on MSNBC yesterday. And one senior Dem state legislator from out west text me and said, you know, he literally just let his private militia out of jail. He said he's instilled a sense of loyalty. These are. These people feel loyal to him, and their lawlessness is now going. Is now going to go unchecked, and he can now call on them again to do what they would like. His private militia just got out of jail. What do you think, Charles?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Well, I wouldn't put it like that. And I think that's an extrapolation that is typical of MSNBC because they always think everything is some great fascist plot and that Elon Musk was hinting at this for reasons unknown or when he waved at the crowd yesterday. But I do think it's pretty bad. I do think a lot of the people who were involved in January 6th committed crimes and behaved in a way that is completely unbecoming of a republic with the encouragement at the time of the president. And I think if we were looking at this the other way around, and we were talking about, say, rioters from the summer of 2020, and the Democratic president had issued these mass pardons, some of which covered people who'd been violent and antagonistic towards the police, we would say that that is corruption and it's partisan. And it is, I do agree with you. From a political perspective, the decisions that Joe Biden made at the end of his presidency are just utterly inexplicable. He was, he says, inspired to run for president because of Donald Trump and his desire to restore dignity and honor to the White House and respect the rule of law. And all of that. And he ended his presidency by being more lawless than really any president in modern times and thereby pulling the rug out from under anyone who wants to complain about this. But two wrongs do not make a right. And I think that the abuse of the pardon power that we have seen over the last five days should make a case for its being restricted. You have to do that with the constitutional amendment. Of course, it would be almost impossible because no president wants to give it up. But I would favor that. I'm with the anti Federalists on this. I think it was a mistake to put it in. And even if it wasn't, I think it is now a mistake to have it in the Constitution. I would get rid of it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I take your point. I mean, just as somebody who practiced law for a long time, it just feels odd to have a president then swoop in and undo all the, all the things that, you know, it's supposed to be used sparingly to right a miscarriage of justice. And I actually do think on Most of those J6 pardons, that is what happened. I just think that the administration, the Biden administration lost its mind over J6, you know, the insurrection stuff, and overcharged so many of these defendants and really did get too zealous. I mean, just treated them like they were dangerous felons when really they had meandered into the Capitol building in many cases thinking it was okay and failed to draw enough distinction between those people and the people who actually did assault cops. I'm with you. I don't really have a ton of sympathy for the people who assaulted the police officers. And I don't think that they deserved commutations. But I think the vast majority of these J6 defendants were political prisoners in a way, Rich, and that they were, they were made to pay a price, that the left was just frustrated they couldn't make Donald Trump pay.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, I'm open to the idea there's over sentencing here and overcharging the charge of parading right, which is basically walking through the Capitol, seems to be stretching the law just to find an offense. But these pardons cover people who fought with cops, assaulted cops, and anyone who does that, I don't care whether they're on the right or the left, in between, political, not political, deserves to go to jail. And you know, let me ask you.

[Megyn Kelly]

A follow up sentence, but that should.

[Rich Lowry]

Involve a case by case evaluation.

[Megyn Kelly]

So agree. I mean, I think everybody sitting on this panel is generally. Well, not Charlie, but you and I, Rich, are pro Law enforcement. Charlie doesn't want cops or the FBI or really laws.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

I like. No, hang on, hang on. It's the FBI. I think the FBI doesn't fit within our system because it's federal. I'm, I'm. I have no issue with cops. I've never had an issue with cops.

[Rich Lowry]

I like it.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

I'm a localist though. I like the more local the cop, the more I like them.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so, yeah, so we are, I think we're all generally pro cop and doesn't matter whether it's a J6 cop or it's another cop. Like, don't want to see them getting assaulted by bullies or criminals. But the thing that does give me some pause on this is how the left, just like they completely let all of the cop assaulters on their side, antifa. Etc, get away with every single one for the better part of a year post George Floyd or at least half a year. And we all sat there stunned and horrified that there wouldn't be charges. 2000 cops were injured at the hands of those post George Floyd protesters. And the left is like, you broke the social contract, so you deserved it. So it is galling to see people who were, I don't know, I think in a lot of cases, temporarily insane post Covid. Post that year of George Floyd and so on just weren't themselves. And I'm not excusing assaulting police officers. I'm just saying, like, if you're gonna have empathy for anybody, it might be the people at that point in America who've just been driven to a boiling point and, and so. But they get nothing. They get the book thrown at them and there's absolutely nobody around to feel sorry for them or put their behavior in any sort of cultural, societal context.

[Rich Lowry]

Yes, it's totally hypocritical. They were insistent that this insurrection, right almost immediately that became the mandatory way it had to be described. The term was used, you know, thousands of times just in the initial days after the riot. And the truth is, you know, it wasn't Nancy's close, his fault. But if someone had had the national guard there or 100 more police officers or just more of a show of force, it never would have happened. It never would have happened. It was a riot that ran out of control. Doesn't mean that there weren't a lot of bad actors. Doesn't mean that there weren't people who. A very small group that really wanted to do this and was determined to do this. But a riot, a element of a riot just the crowd psychology is there are a couple leaders who get it going and then everyone else kind of loses their minds. There's a great book written about this, English Soccer Thugs. And the. The author pointed out things are kind of under control until there's the sound of shattered glass. And that immediately just sets off this atavistic instinct in people. Okay, all the rules are gone now. That doesn't, that doesn't make riots good, they're bad. I don't want anyone who's punching cops, whether antifa or a J6 loyalist to Donald Trump getting off scot free. So again, I would have done a case by case evaluation the way JD And Pam Bondi were talking about. But now this is done and it's not going to be popular. But there's so many other things that have happened the last 24 hours. I think it kind of gets buried.

[Megyn Kelly]

I feel like it's. Let's move forward. I will say this. Joe Biden pardoned how many criminals in the past month, including, you know, Glenn Youngkin is jumping up and down about this in Virginia, including two convicted copies killers. Where's the left jumping up and down about that? There were no zero cop killers on January 6. Even though the left is still trying to pedal the lie that there were. There were no. No cops were killed on January 6th. But they, but they were killed in the past in Virginia and elsewhere. And at least two cop killers in Virginia were let out by Joe Biden without so much as an explanation. Where's that headline, New York Times? Here is Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey peddling the lie. You'll hear it at the tail end here again that cops died that day, but the people he pardoned, his family members, did not, before the naked public eye, beat police officers, try to overthrow our government, lead to the death of police officers. This is not about left or right in our country. We can't just say this is a tit for tat or their side did it so my side can do it. No, this is about the values and principles that we should all be looking to uphold. The President of the United States of America has just pardoned people who physically attacked violently led to the death of officers like Sick Nick. And we should be talking about that. Okay, there's. That's not true. That is not true. Brian. Sick. Sick Nick died of natural causes. That is what the ME found. And the only person who died that day was Ashley Babbitt, who was shot by a police officer on Capitol Hill who's five foot one. Okay, that's it. He's wrong. He said the people Joe Biden just pardoned didn't kill any police officers or attack. Yes, they did. As I just pointed out, Biden did pardon cop killers. He maybe he doesn't know about it because the media won't talk about it, Charles, but you and I both know Biden just pardoned a whole host of actually dangerous criminals. The left just doesn't care. They I don't know if it's because they want those people back on the street because it's a Democrat who did it, but they're much more obsessed with cops being battered by J6 defendants, which, again, we all agree is not a good thing, but we have. There's a scale in the criminal law. And actually shooting dead two cops is, by anyone's measure worse than having a fist fight with them on Capitol Hill.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

I think that there are just a huge number of people on the left who don't know much about the country they live in. As I say, two wrongs don't make a right. So don't interpret this as a justification of what Trump did, but they don't know that those pardons were issued right from the beginning of Joe Biden's presidency. He was a character, an avatar, creation of a political movement that needed him to be a certain way. Last time I was on the show, we went all the way through the number of times it was said on television that Joe Biden's refusal to pardon his son said so much, showed so much. It was illustrative of the moral virtue of those left of center within the Democratic Party, and it just wasn't true. He little did we know at that point then made it much, much worse at last minute pardoning members of his family, blanket pardons that go back 11 years. I just think that one of the issues that the left has, and one of the reasons they lost the last election, despite Donald Trump's behavior after the 2020 election, was because they don't know much about the country they live in. They don't know much about the people who live in it, and they don't know much about how its politics work because they're constantly fed this narrow set of news. It would not shock me if Cory Booker didn't know. Yeah, those pardons were issued. I, I look at that guy who I think is a fraud. I'm not pretending he's some oracle Spartacus. I look at that guy. Yeah, I look at that guy, and he strikes me more as a naive than as a liar. I think he doesn't know. I think he doesn't know it.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, there's no way he knows. And a lot of people repeat the lie about Charlottesville and Trump who just don't know. And I was struck, Megan, by an interview with Pete Buttigieg on Squawk Box several months ago. And they're pushing him about the border. Joe Kernan was. And why did you reverse all this Trump stuff that was working? And he said, no, we only reverse child separations. Child separations happened for about 10 days. Then they were stopped in reverse during the Trump administration. So everything that was thrown out the window by Biden was totally different, was working and was humane and not immoral. But he didn't know. And he's supposed to be one of the smartest Democrats in the room because they live in this information bubble.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let me give you some facts on the two guys and the crime I'm talking about that Biden just commuted the sentences of. All right, without explanation. We don't know why these cop killers suddenly got a free pass out of jail. Again, the left won't tell you this. They're just going to focus on proud boys. Proud boys. Glenn Youngkin called this to the public's attention, releasing the following statement, just this a day or two ago after Biden did it, saying, okay, he. He announced clemency of violent criminals Ferron Claiborne and Terence Richardson, two men who admitted to being responsible for the brutal killing of Officer Alan Gibson, a Sussex county police officer. Quote, this is Youngkin. I'm beyond outraged and in utter disbelief that President Biden would announce clemency for Forron Claiborne and Terence Richardson, two men who admitted, admitted to being responsible to brutally killing Officer Alan Gibson, a hero and dedicated servant to the community. Said Youngkin. What makes this even more unconscionable is the Biden U.S. attorney advised the White House not to commute these sentences as they are violent offenders. The pain and sorrow this clemency causes the Gibson family is unimaginable. To know that the men who took Officer Gibson's life will walk free is not just a grave injustice, it's a heartbreaking blow to those who continue to mourn his sacrifice. This is despicable, a grim day for justice and for the families who trust that our system will hold the guilty accountable. I've seen cop after cop on CNN talking about how sad they are that Trump did this with the J6 defendants. Where are the families of this cop? Why don't, why don't I see them on cnn? Talking about how they feel that their fathers and husband's killer was just. Killers were just allowed out. And here's just a little color for you. It happened in 1998. The officer put on his bulletproof vest, said goodbye to his 8 year old daughter Krisanna and Officer Gibson. The now decedent found Terence Richardson and Ferrone Claiborne engaged in a drug deal behind an apartment building. They both attacked Officer Gibson and Richardson disarmed him and fatally shot him in the stomach right below his bulletproof vest. Leaving that 8 year old girl without a dad. I, I'm sorry, but it's just really tough to get worked up about the proud boys guy or the guy even with the, the, what was it like the flagpole when we don't. No one gives two craps about this. It's like it's not even and it's not right. Okay, that's, that's J6. Let's move on. Gosh, there's a lot to go through. Let's talk about the border crackdown because it's already happening. It's in full swing. They already got their notifications on the CBP1 app. All appointments are canceled. You will not be coming in and seeking asylum here. President Trump has declared an emergency at the border, has declared an invasion, which gives him all sorts of powers. And now what I'm seeing on the media and on social media is videos like this one of migrants weeping in Juarez after they found out this had happened. Satu I what? Like that's what the next year, 2, 3, 4 are going to look like on most cable channels and broadcast news channels. Rich. Because at heart, the elite news media doesn't want this to happen, even though the country overwhelmingly does.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, totally. So look, I sympathize to migrants. They're desperate people. And that woman thought she was going to get in the United States and win life's lottery and that it was pulled away for her now for good reasons. Right. I'm very strongly supportive of a secure border and interior enforcement. And this app was way around our laws that the Biden administration fashioned so they could say the number of illegal immigrants was going down the same time they're getting exactly the same people into the country through a pretext that they came up with through this app. So, you know, Trump invoked this, these emergency powers. You know, he's going to be sending troops to the border. That's not really the, the issue. More manpower helps at the margins, but you have to change the policy is that let people into the country to abuse our asylum process and never leave. So you need to exclude them. So that's why remain in Mexico was so important. That's why the so called safe third country agreements were so important. Right. If you say you're politically persecuted in Honduras, what we would say is, oh well, Guatemala will take you. And then the person from Honduras would say actually maybe I'm not that politically persecuted and I'll just stay home. So all that work needs to be reimplemented. Now those countries might not be interested in doing it. Certainly Mexico isn't. But that's where the tariffs and other cajoling and bullying comes in to get them to resign on the dotted line and cooperate with us.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, it's like the government offering a homeless person free stay at the Day's Inn and they're like, no, I want to be at the Ritz. That's us, the United States. Well, sorry you got to stay the days in Guatemala or Mexico. You can't come to the Ritz Carlton on the taxpayers dime. It's, that's not no longer going to be a thing. Charles, happy to hear your thoughts on the immigration and what's happening. But I also want to get to Trump pulling us out of the Paris climate accords and what he's doing on the Green New Deal and the green energy policies that the left pushed through. Here's Trump pulling out of the Paris climate accord at Capitol One arena at that desk when he appeared yesterday. SOT1.

[Peter Doocy]

But I'm immediately withdrawing from the unfair one sided Paris climate accord ripoff. The United States will not sabotage our own industries while China pollutes with impunity.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, and he went on about China and just what a massive polluter they are and like what are we doing to ourselves here?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

I love everything about that. I love what he said, which was coupled in his inauguration address with a promise to drill, baby, drill and use the energy that is imperative. I like the policy. We should never have been in that agreement. We should not be in any agreement that restricts our ability to grow our economy. And I like it as a matter of constitutional hygiene. If this were a treaty that had been ratified by the Senate, then the president could not have stood there yesterday and announced that. But they rarely are these arrangements, they're executive agreements. And the thing with executive agreements, irrespective of the merits, is that they can be pulled out of just as easily as they can be made. And Donald Trump demonstrated that neatly. This is the side of the new administration that I absolutely love. That was Legal. It was good for our constitution. It was good for the country. It's good policy. And the way he characterized it, it's just so important. This is a matter of debate in Britain, too, where the British, who have even less of an impact on the global climate than the United States, are destroying their country, they're destroying their economy, they're making old people spend their winter shivering in the corner because of guilt over a problem that is mostly now the product of the developing world. I don't, by the way, begrudge them that. I mean, it's really the height of hypocrisy to turn around and say, especially to India and China, you can't develop in the way we did. But the British, the United States, France, Germany, for us to be doing what we have done over the last five, 10, 15 years in the name of climate change while China is bringing on hundreds of coal power stations every year is preposterous. And I'm glad that Trump came out and said it as bluntly that he did.

[Megyn Kelly]

He pulled out of the whole, too. He pulled the United. I don't exactly know what that means, to be honest. Rich like that. We're no longer participating in the World Health Organization. I suppose it's the funding because he accompanied it by pointing out that we've got but a fraction of the population that China does, and yet we pay 90% of the cost versus what China pays. I may have botched that a little bit, but that's basically what Trump was saying, that. Why. Why are we the pocketbook for all these world initiatives?

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah. An institution that's been disproportionately influenced by China and was. Wasn't playing it straight on the origins of COVID I just have to say, going back to the Paris Accords, it's just, it's so enjoyable to think about all these European observers being so outraged, One, that we're pulling back out, and two, that this American president is doing it in front of a roaring and cheering crowd. It was also amazing to. To watch Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have to sit within feet of Donald Trump when he completely excoriated their miserable misgovernance over the last four years. Now, every president, when a president and another party is coming in, it's no fun to be at the inauguration. But to be within feet of him when. When he speaks of what they've done in such harsh and unsparing terms was kind of a. Another. The. The incredible spectacles we saw yesterday.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was amazing. But I love the climate initiatives. That Trump is pushing through. I mentioned this a little yesterday, but the wind, the unnecessary, wasteful, toxic, terrible, ocean polluting, animal killing wind turbines are all getting a second look. Anything that required federal approval for a land lease, which almost all of them have, is getting, that aren't built already, is getting reviewed. And there's a guy in New Jersey, you guys know Rich, you've been there. There's a guy in New Jersey that we own property in New Jersey and that's where we spend our summers. And this has been a very big deal for all people in New Jersey for a long time. They're going to move massive windmills along the coast less than 10 miles from shore, where you can see them, you can hear them. It's going to ruin, you know, just the serenity of the shore, which is one of the jewels of America that is an absolute jewel, the Jersey Shore. I realize I got a bad reputation thanks to Snooki and our friend the Situation, who we love, but the vast majority of the Jersey Shore is white sand beaches and absolutely beautiful oceanfront. And why would we ruin it on this very ineffective, inefficient, toxic green energy.

[Rich Lowry]

Program when we have Drive the whales insane, Megan?

[Megyn Kelly]

And that's a real thing. That's a real thing. President Trump was mocked for that. But go look at Michael Shellenberger. He did a whole documentary on how these poor whales really are being driven insane. And Congressman Jeff Van Drew, he's from New Jersey, he actually tweeted out stopping offshore wind. Wind remains our top priority. With President Trump back in office, we'll work together to end the green new scam and shut down these disastrous offshore wind projects. And now, indeed, what's going to happen is they're all getting reviewed, all of these leases. That's just. Oh, that's just one of them. Because he also mentioned yesterday our stoves, our vehicles, and hello, Charlie. He mentioned the light bulb. Is it possible Trump is bringing back the incandescent bulb?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

I mean, that is a perfect example of what I was just talking about, right? Which is that you look at the supposed problem that we face and then you look at the solution, which is to change our light bulbs. It's so petty. I am one of those odd people who's not bothered by LED light bulbs. I don't like the mandate, but one thing I really, really loved, Megan, was the reversal of the EV mandate. Electric vehicles, if people want to buy them without subsidies, that's fine, but they don't. The vast majority of people don't want this, which is why it's a mandate. Also, the Biden administration knows that the vast majority of people don't like this, which is why the Biden administration has lied about it, pretending that it's not a mandate, it's just a mechanism by which it will be illegal not to do it up to 2/3 or 70% within 10 years, which is a mandate. The idea here is to make it unaffordable for car companies to produce gasoline cars. Well, I may not care about light bulbs so much. I love gasoline cars. I'm something of a petrol head. I am in that regard part of a long tradition from my country of birth, England, and a long tradition of my adopted country, the United States. This is a place that people love to be able to choose whatever they want to buy and what they want to buy. Not electric vehicles. So that was a great moment yesterday as well.

[Megyn Kelly]

I hate the LED light bulbs. Hate. They are so unflattering. They are blinding. It is an FBI. We have ways of making you talk kind of maybe that. That's more KGB kind of light. I'll tell you. I here in my studio, I asked them to give me a good light above the desk for when I just want to work here. I'm not on the air. And they put one in and I almost never use it. I'm going to show you. Let me see if I can capture it. What happens when I turn it on? It is. It truly is like an interrogation. Like so much. Who. Who wants to work like that?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I miss the incandescent bulb. It's a much nicer mood setter. It's like a warm amber glow which you can crank up if you want. It is not a equivalent of bamboo shoots under the fingernails approach to lighting.

[Rich Lowry]

And you should be able to see this, right? Choose what you want. It's the same thing with electric vehicles. People don't have anything against electric vehicles. They just hate the idea that they're going to be forced to buy them. And look, thanks to Elon Musk and others, they found a market. It's a niche market. Affluent people buy them as their second or third car. You know, they, they can be great products, but they're not practical or affordable for most people. And if, if you look at climate change in general, if we're going to beat climate change and the climate is changing, there's a man made element. It's going to be adaptation, it's going to be more greater technical proficiency. The greatest thing we've done to reduce emissions is a technological innovations Fracking, Right. This opened up more reserves of natural gas. That's, that's the fundamentally American response to this kind of challenge.

[Megyn Kelly]

Not to mention we don't have enough charging stations. Just ask the people in California 47. They have. Because once had burned. All right, Rich and Charlie, stay with us. Don't go away. These days, personal safety is not something that can be left to chance. Whether at home, on the road, or just living everyday life, having a reliable way to protect yourself and your family is crucial. This is why Burna is the choice for so many. Burna is a game changer. It is a less lethal self defense tool. Compact, powerful and easy to use. It provides the confidence to act in any situation. Burner uses non lethal rounds, tear gas, pepper and kinetic projectiles to effectively stop a threat from a safe distance. There are so many people who want a non lethal option in addition to a lethal option. Their biggest customers are gun owners. So it's not like they're anti gun. It's maybe I want to be able to say in front of a jury that I use the non lethal option before I resorted to the gun. Um, or there are people who like, I know a lot of women who don't want to have a gun in the house and they just don't want something that's got lethal force. And so this would be a great option for them because they're into self defense but they don't want a gun. All right. The best part though about Burna is it can be shipped directly to your door and it's legal in all 50 states. Byrne is proudly American with products hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Sometimes, as I said, a firearm is not the right option for you. Burna gives you a powerful alternative. Protect what matters most with Byrna. Visit byrna.com that's by r n a.com Megan to receive a 10% discount. B y r n a.com and learn why thousands of people and law enforcement agencies are making the switch to Byrna's less lethal protection. Burna. Non lethal self defense. Always ready.

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[Megyn Kelly]

Now here I am in my studio and my son just came home from school. What are you doing home with this? Too early? Everything okay? Yeah, all good. Okay. You just. You got out early today. Yeah, awesome. Okay, I gotta do this now and I'll talk to you in an hour. All right. Love you, honey. How's my son Yates? Back early from school. He seems fine now. I guess there's news there. I did want to tell you this, um, last night. Okay. Charlie. Charlie Cook is back with me. So is Rich Lowry from National Review. The. At that ball that we went. We went to the Starlight Ball and it was like, I can't get over the social media of some of these people. Like, they talk about, like it being your prom. I don't understand how you get to be, you know, in your 40s or 50s and still like, treat this like it is like a debutante ball, you know, I understand taking fun snaps with your family, with your friends at the thing, or if you see like a public figure you like. But I'm sorry, this brings me to Lauren Sanchez again. She's going to be married to Jeff Bezos. She showed up at the swearing in ceremony with her breasts hanging out, you may have noticed. And she. She was at this thing. I didn't see her while there, but she posts all over social media. I think she thinks she's American royalty. Look at this, look at this. It's like the dress is spread out exactly the right lighting. It's like she's sort of in amber glow. Like, what can I tell you? Look at this. The close up with the hands covering the mouth, perfectly curated. Like. Oh, with the big lips that are also fake. Everything about this woman is just fake. It's all. It's. So I'm in a position to judge, I believe, because I am the opposite of this, you guys. The woman who helped me with my clothing because I had. I can't choose things like that by myself. Her name's Molly. She's always like, send me a picture. Send me A picture. I literally have no pictures. I, I, I don't take any pictures of myself with these things. I will pose for pictures with others. But it occurred to me last night right before we left, I should take like a picture with my family. So I took one standing next to my daughter Yardley. I did post it on Insta, and I blurred her face cause I don't show my kids. But this is the all I have. I have one. We're standing together. My daughter is several inches taller than I am now. She's only 13. This is it. This is all I got. Why? Because I'm a normal person who doesn't obsess over curating her image so everybody can admire me all the world around. I don't get how you can be engaged to the world's richest man or one of them and still be this needy of attention. Who would like to take that over to Charlie?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Well, you're at a slight disadvantage here, Megan, because you're talking to two men. And I do think that this is probably a predominantly female thing. And if it's not, we're not the sort of men who take pictures of ourselves all the time. I think I pretty comfortable saying that. Right, Rich?

[Rich Lowry]

I, how do you know Charlie? How can you say with confidence, I.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Have known you for 12, 13 years. I, I have very rarely seen you at events with a phone stuck in your face, taking selfies. Just, I mean, I agree with you. I, I agree with you. This is a strange thing. And look, the, the main reason that I have always thought that this is odd behavior is that when you get into that mindset, you stop enjoying the moment. I know that is a cliche, but it's true. Not just because you spend so much time taking pictures and posing for pictures, but because you're constantly thinking, how do I look? There's nothing wrong with trying to look nice. You should look nice, especially if you go to a ball. That's one of the points. It's not a criticism of that, but if you take it to that extent, you're actually not going to have any fun. So I've never quite understood this. I am very slightly. I'm 40. I'm very slightly too old for it. I think this kicked in three or four years.

[Megyn Kelly]

So is Lauren Sanchez. She's my age. Exactly.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

That's very true. That's very true. But, you know, I also was lucky in that I very slightly missed the point at which my entire childhood and college years were filmed, which would not have been a very good thing for Me, I don't have a portrayal on. On the Internet of meetings, so we're.

[Megyn Kelly]

Going to see pictures of you like this. Charlie, you. You did not show up to the National Review cruise like this.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

No, I. I do. There is a photograph of me at a music festival when I was 18 years old, semi passed out, which is in a vault. And we'll stay there. I'm glad I did.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, if you ever run for vice president, I'm sure the left will be happy to parade it all over the papers like they did of J.D. vance at that one Yale party.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

And no doubt my constitution land ineligibility for office, which would be probably a bigger hurdle. But. No, I just. I don't understand it. There's a certain narcissism about it that is inexplicable. And as you say, she's older than I am and she's married or about to be married to Jeff Bezos. I find it bizarre.

[Rich Lowry]

We almost discussed this on the Editors, Megan, but we left it on the cutting room floor. But we agreed with you about Lauren Sanchez and how she dresses. And Mark Zuckerberg was collateral damage here. I don't think he meant to ogle her, but kind of look, looked at the. The right or wrong place, depending on how you look at it, and was probably like, wait a minute, is she wearing a bra?

[Megyn Kelly]

Every woman alive sitting next to her would have been caught in that same Mark Zuckerberg pose where you're like, oh, my God, I see breasts at an inauguration. There they are. Put the girls away. It's only going to take about 50 minutes. Lauren, you. They can go inside for 50 minutes. You can bust them right back out after this. It was shocking. I will say, though, the Trump family, absolutely impeccable in their style. They showed up Trump and Melania and most of the other Trumps at all the balls doing the dance. And it's always a sweet moment. You know, I. The only other inaugural ball I ever love, the Melania hat.

[Rich Lowry]

You like the hat?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah, me.

[Megyn Kelly]

You didn't like it?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Me and you, Megan? I loved it.

[Rich Lowry]

I didn't like it.

[Megyn Kelly]

What. What didn't you like about it, Rich?

[Rich Lowry]

Because it did seem like a way. A weird way to kind of hide look. She looks great in anything and she's a real anything style. Style horse. Right. And I. I thought her. I'm not a dress guy, but the. The inaugural dress was. Was stunning with that Z white Z on the black dress. But I wasn't a fan of the. The hat certainly notable.

[Megyn Kelly]

I laughed when somebody online said she looked like the Hamburglar, I thought that was actually very funny with that hat. It was not true. I thought she looked like perfection. I, I can't get over how beautiful this woman is. But Trump, did Charlie tell a funny story at by his helicopter about the helicopter at the Capitol after his speech. Take a listen here.

[Peter Doocy]

I shouldn't say this. I'm going to get hell when I say this, but her feet are absolutely aching. You know those heels. She said, darling, I love you so much, but my feet are killing me. I said, honey, let me just see how far does I ask the person, oh, not that long. Maybe four or 500 yards. That's five football fields. I said, can you make it? She said, we're going to make it. No matter what, we're going to make it because we have to get right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Peter Doocy]

And then we went out to the helicopter, though, just prior to this and said goodbye. And it's a custom and the wind is blowing like crazy. And with the hat that she's wearing, she almost blew away. We almost lost.

[Rich Lowry]

Thank you for.

[Peter Doocy]

She was being elevated off the ground. She almost blew away now, so we all appreciate it because you, you've been a great first lady.

[Megyn Kelly]

She almost blew away. Okay. But Charlie, without asking you, you can tell me how you feel about the hat, but whose opinion I really want is mbd. I feel like you'd have strong feelings on it. But I, I do think Trump has a point about what a great first lady she is. I, she's my kind of first lady where she stays out of it. She doesn't think she's secretly the president.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah. There's a great Bill Burr segment about this. I encourage your listeners to go look up and it is a strange development in first Lady Dom when they get involved in politics. She's, she's a good first lady. I'll be honest with you. It's not something I've thought a great deal about. I do think her hat was exquisite. So I'm on your side on this. The outfit was great. I think it's very classic. I mean, it's got that 20s, 30s look. It could be on the front of a ladies magazine from a P.G. woodhouse novel. And that's a compliment. I thought it was absolutely terrific. You've ruined it for me now by saying that the Hamburglar would wear a similar hat. Now, that's all I'm going to think of.

[Rich Lowry]

But this, Megan, this would be a sign also cool that the vibe, the vibe shift is really deep. Is right we have these entrepreneurs behind Trump. We have Coke giving him commemorative bottle meta changing its policies, all that. But the real sign of the vibe shift would be if a glossy magazine actually put the model who's the first lady in the United States and looks fantastic on, on a cover. Right. It didn't happen the first time. Maybe it'll happen this time around.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's truly one of the most beautiful people on earth and just the picture of class she's been. You could not have asked for more from a first lady, and I'm sure she's going to be just as great this time. Trump and Vance showed up at, among other places, the Commander in Chief ball and thought it might be fun to do the YMCA dance with swords, which is worth looking at. Here it is. It's just video. Why do we don't. Why didn't we have the sound here? There he is. We're doing his dance. They whipped out swords. You can see J.D. vance. Like, what do I do? Do I pick up? Do I. Do I do a sword fight with. The President's really adding something to it, you guys. Look at the hips. He went a little Elvis there. He doesn't normally put the full wiggle into it, but I think, I think he was feeling pretty good. You guys. I think this is Trump at what's his happiest.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah, Melania Trump backed off just a little bit because the sword was waving around her face.

[Rich Lowry]

To. What a fascinating and weird dynamic place America is. Right? If someone had told you in 1977 when they came up with an idea of a disco band that would cater to gay disco fans called the Village People to invoke Greenwich Village, and then, you know, 40 decades, 40 years later, whatever it is, the right wing president, who's supposed to be a cultural warrior troglodyte, according to his enemies, would adopt their song as his anthem, make a dance craze around it, and they'd be performing at his inaugural events, who would have thunk it? It's. It's amazing.

[Megyn Kelly]

Spectacular. We, we saw them at. We went to Charlie Kirk's Turning Points Ball on Sunday night pre inauguration, which was very fun. Met so many great people there. Absolutely loved them. And the YMCA was performed by the Village People. And it was, I can't believe, like, how much energy those guys put into the performance. You know, it's like they lean in and I mean, especially the guy who plays the, the Native American character with a full headdress, you know, and what I didn't understand when I was watching him Is that, you know, that iconic now iconic photo where he's, like, leaning back and President Trump is laughing, Is that actually he was doing a double Nazi salute. And really, we never should have celebrated that. It wasn't just the one. It was two. Two Nazi salutes. Just like Elon Musk. Is this the stupidest controversy you've seen in a while? Like, I'll show the audience what he did. It's a lie that the left is telling about him. He said something really sweet to the Capital One arena, and these just crazy loons tried to turn him into a Nazi because of it. Here it is.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Some. Some elections are, you know, important.

[Peter Doocy]

Some are not.

[Megyn Kelly]

But. But this one, this one.

[Peter Doocy]

This one really mattered.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I just want to say thank you for making it happen. Thank.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

My heart goes out to you.

[Megyn Kelly]

It is thanks to you that the.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Future of civilization is assured.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thanks to you. Well, that has the left all a Twitter. Hold on. I want to get. I want to get some of the examples here. Here is. Okay, so CNN first weighed in trying to make this a thing. Let's play that he is a hero to them. I just want to look at that salute that he gave again. Just. If anybody missed it, we'll just show it again. He's just wrapped up here. You can hear the. There. All right, so we just.

[Jody Shaw]

We just showed that. We just showed that.

[Rich Lowry]

Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

It's worth. It was quick. I think our viewers are smart and they can take a look at that. But it certainly was. It's not something that you typically see at American political rallies, put it that way. No, no. It was not something that you usually would see. Oh, my God. Okay. So of course they try to make it a thing. Twitter starts going nuts to the point where the adl, the Anti Defamation League, which is very. I'm sorry, they're like Southern Poverty Law Center. They just. I don't put any weight in what these guys say anymore. But they. Even. They. They're typically repeating the leftist line. Even. They came out and defended elon, leading to AOC's tweet as follows. In response to the ADL, just to be clear, you are defending a he Hitler salute that was performed and repeated for emphasis and clarity. People can officially stop listening to you as any sort of reputable source of information now. Well, we're kind of on the same page there. You work for them. Thank you for making that crystal clear to all. And you had others like Jerry Nadler trying to, you know, just espouse the seriousness of this moment. How deeply disappointing. It Was rich. They're actually trying to run with this.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah. So what's the theory? This libertarian American entrepreneur is a secret Nazi? So he accidentally did a Nazi sol when he was just being very emphatic, or that he's just trying to make this a thing. He's just openly a Nazi. What is it? I mean, both are completely absurd. It's poisonous. It's beneath contempt, by the way. He was just showing enthusiasm. And that's been one of the amazing things about Elon since he entered that rally in Pennsylvania where he exposes midriff jumping into the air like, I know, Kool Aid commercial or something. Just how into this he is. I mean, he's a grown man. He's extremely accomplished. Right. He's founded several companies that any one of them would be world historical on their own. He's done multiples and there might be more to come. And he's just so joyful and ecstatic about this election and this political phenomenon. It's amazing to see.

[Megyn Kelly]

And is literally saying, charles, I give my heart to you. He's touching his heart. And then hand out to the audience while he's saying, I give my heart to you. And still we get. Here's the Nadler tweet. I never imagined we would see the day when what appears to be a Heil Hitler salute would be made behind the presidential seal. This abhorrent gesture has no place in our society and belongs in the darkest chapters of human history. I urge all of my colleagues to unite in condemning this hateful gesture for what it is. Anti Semitism by Elon Musk. Same man who toured Auschwitz recently, who went over to Israel with Ben Shapiro to see firsthand what Hamas did to the suffering Israelis. Like that's, that's. Who's an anti Semite now? Because while saying I give my heart to you, he made that gesture.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah. So Chris Murphy asked about it this morning in Elise Stefanik's hearing. Bill Crystal is now riffing on it. You know it. It's an amazing thing, as Rich says, because I don't know what the idea is supposed to be here. So let's assume that it's a Nazi salute. So why, why, why would he do that? What is the aim? To signal on CNN that they are. What? It's a silly idea. It's unfortunately an indicator that the press has not learned anything. And that's what surprised me about it. I would have thought after this election that there would have been more than two hours between the inauguration of Donald Trump and the return to that sort of silliness. But there weren't. This came straight back. This is now the conversation piece for a particular sort of resistance type. And now you have a second day of it from people who really should have spent the time and thought whether or not they wanted to jump on this bandwagon. And the fact that Chris Murphy one day later in a controlled setting like the United States Senate chose to bring this up to ask Elise Stefanik about it on the record in a hearing that is supposed to be about her nomination suggests to me that they are essentially irredeemable that the people who have got themselves into this mindset cannot get out of it. I do not mean people who dislike or criticize Donald Trump. I mean the people who have never been able to distinguish between Trump as he actually exists and Trump as they have projected him from the beginning as this Hitler esque figure. I mean, to borrow from what Rich just said about ymca, it is extremely surprising that that song went from what it was in 1977 to what it is now. It's not 100% surprising that Donald Trump would pick it up though, because he's the campest president we've ever had.

[Megyn Kelly]

He is.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Donald Trump is a camp theater kid. He is not Adolf Hitler. There are many, many things to criticize him for. I do so. I've done so on the show. I will continue to do so. But the idea that he and Elon Musk are secret Nazis that they're trying to send secret. There was this weird movement that coalesced on the right around Trump at the end of his first term and then especially in the aftermath of the election. QAnon it was stupid conspiracy theory, bizarre Internet phenomenon. Well, the left has their own version which others call blue. Anon I think David Harsanyi wrote a book about this. This is blue and on. I mean this is lunacy, conspiracy theories. Except that instead of being in the fringes of the Internet, reported on in the press, it's representatives of people like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Chris Murphy and Bill Kristol and the anchors at cnn. And they are not going to do very well over the next four years if this is their habit.

[Megyn Kelly]

Still, they're not, I've said before, they're not changing. I don't expect change. They're going to go right back to their Trump derangement syndrome and further decrease and erode their credibility here. We did find the Bill Kristol tweet saying to Caroline Levitt, who's the new press secretary, Elon Musk has an office in the White House. Does the President support his salute yesterday in quotes? Has anyone at the White House asked Musk what he meant by it or suggested he clarify what he meant? Is it fine if other White House staffers offer such salutes? And Elon just tweeted out, not in response to Kristol, but just in general, frankly, they need better tricks, better dirty tricks. The everyone is Hitler attack is so tired. Rich, how true is that? We just saw Hitler sit down with Barack Obama and they were kidding each other like old college chums. Hitler, glad handed with Bill Clinton, Hitler. I mean, they just tried to pull this unsuccessfully with Trump and no sooner does he get sworn in than they try it with Elon.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's tired. It's been, it was tired 50 years ago. They, they always use this. And the honorable thing to do is to say, I don't like Elon Musk and I, I think he's run his platform in a disgraceful way and he shouldn't be on, on board with this and reactionary president, but he didn't do a Hitler salute. Right. That's the honorable way to make their case. But they can't. And they're stuck in this, this mode of thinking where some of them believe it as we were talking about earlier, because they're in an information bubble and some of them just think it works and it, it doesn't. Not sure it ever did, but it certainly doesn't.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now that's an interesting question. Like who, who really believes, Does Bill Kristol really believe that Elon did a Heil Hitler salute or does he just see an opportunity to stir up hatred against an administration that he hates and tried very hard to defeat? I don't know. I do think that you can get so crazed with TDS that you can no longer be a fair arbiter or an honest broker of information. That's the distinction I was trying to make about which you don't hate Trump, but you guys, you know, Charlie's not a huge Trump fan, I think it's fair to say, but such a fair journalist commentator, you know, would never play fast and loose with the facts just to hurt Trump. That's, you're still, you're an honest broker. Bill Kristol. I, I don't know. He's so crazy, it almost doesn't matter. Here's Rachel Maddow with her, like, typical, sanctimonious, like, I'm sorry to have to bring you this, but here's the latest of these terrible people. This is what happened with these disgusting opponents. Watch. Here she is. This is him today twice throwing something that looks like what is politely called the Roman salute. And maybe this is not what he meant when he did it. Who among us knows what is in the hearts of men? But the Roman salute is a thing and that is what it looks like Elon Musk was doing, which added a nice blood curdling chill to the the day for many people. Today he does it twice. And again, maybe that's not what he meant. Maybe he doesn't know what that is. That happened today. That happened today. Who among us knows what's in the hearts of men? Who among us does know? Rachel, I like she. Maybe she should ask Elizabeth Warren. Here she was at the her DNC 2016 speech. Thank you Massachusetts for the great honor of serving as your senator.

[Jody Shaw]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

There's an arm up. Oh, look, it is. She put the palm down. The palm is down. That. Who, who among us knows what's in the hearts of women? Rich Lowry.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, so any, any politician or anyone, anyone else who does kind of an extended wave when you're sticking your arm up, if you happen, as Elizabeth Warren did there to turn your palm down, you can be accused of a Roman salute. At least Rachel Maddow did say. I don't know whether this is what he meant. Right, but she still says in effect that's what he meant or insinuates it. And by the way, msnbc, between Rachel Maddow and Joy Reid has employed two of America's most prominent conspiracy theorists over the last several years. And, and this, these are the people who they, they claim to be all about the facts and hate election denialism and conspiracy theories, but that's what they serve up in huge heaping servings every night and in primetime. Now Rachel, for some reason doesn't have to do the show most of the time, but Joy Reid does, does more than enough herself.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so it's not just Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris. This is her South Carolina Democratic Party event in September of 2024. Watch. That's back before Roe v. Wade was enacted because we're not going back. We're not going back. Oh, there it is. Palm down Nazi salute. And then you've got libs of tick tock that put together screen grab of a bunch of Democrats doing the, the Roman salute. Or are they, I mean, who, how can we know what's in the hearts of men and women? What can we put it on the board? Hold on we'll see it in one second. Here we go. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama are the president, United States. That Kamala at the bottom. My eyes can't quite see. Yes, that's Kamala. Three top Democrats, a Harris, a Clinton and an Obama, all with the Roman salute, which, by the way, Rachel Maddow did not once, but twice on her show. And imitating what, what, what Elon allegedly did. And she did it wrong. She didn't do what Elon did. Touching his heart. And, you know, she did an actual Heil Hitler situation thinking that's fine. Okay. Misrepresentative. And by the way, CNN should be really careful because they just had to pay $5 million plus in a settlement of a defamation lawsuit that they just found were found liable in a, in a jury trial for. So you should really be careful about throwing around the Heil Hitler accusations. But they won't be just for good measure. Before we close this segment out here is Democratic senator from Connecticut. He's daring me. He's daring me. I don't actually want to run for Senate. I love my current job, but he's daring me to take his seat. Here he goes.

[Rich Lowry]

What do you think of Elon Musk, perhaps the president's most visible adviser, doing to Heil Hitler salutes last night at the president's televised rally?

[Megyn Kelly]

No, Elon Musk did not do those salutes. I was not at the rally, but I can tell you I've been at many rallies with Elon Musk, who loves to cheer when President Trump says we need to send, you know, our US Space program to Mars. Elon Musk is a visionary. I'm looking forward to his work in doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, and look forward to looking how we can be more efficient and effective. But that is simply not the case. And to say so is. The American people are smart. They see through it. They support Elon Musk. She's a crusher. She's so great. I love her. And by the way, he is so lucky that there is a privilege for what you say in the conduct of your legislative abilities and performance, because that is defamation. He said flat out that he did to Heil Hitler salutes, which he did not. So if he said that not inside the Senate building, he would be sued for defamation. And by the way, there was. Who was it? Oh, it was. It was the other. It was Dick Blumenthal of Connecticut, the other Democratic senator from Connecticut, I believe. I'm trying to think it was either him or Tim Kaine. It was Tim Kaine. Who said the other day that Pete Hegset, that there was a long history of Pete Hegseth's problems with women and alcohol and like stated as an affirmative fact as opposed to the anonymous reports which have been unsubstantiated. Same thing. Now, I actually went and did some homework on it to figure out whether you could sue a senator for a tweet. And the answer is maybe it's not as clear as when they do it in their capacity on Capitol Hill. There is some case law saying even when they're off Capitol Hill, if the tweet is in support of the legislative agenda, they have some protection, but it's less clear. So those senators ought to be very careful about pushing this nonsense around, because who among us really knows what's in someone's heart? Guys, you know, I don't know. I think the thing is, we talked about this a bit on the show yesterday. We won a whole election, so we don't have to do this nonsense anymore. We're done. The American people are done. We're very, very over the Hitler, the everyone's a closet racist, everyone's a closet sexist. And like, it's almost become just kind of sad now. You know, I. I don't think Elon Musk sweated one bead of sweat over this. I don't think most people would at this point anymore, Charlie. I just feel like we're over it and the American people are over it, and they know that.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah. And you know why that is a big deal? It's not because we're talking about it or because it's facile or even because it's defamatory, although all of those three things are true. It's because I assume that at some point in the future, the American left wants to win again and advance its agenda, and this is just not the way to do it. And not just because there's been a vibe shift, as people keep saying, perhaps there has, but because this distracts from criticisms that might be made of Donald Trump and his agenda that could be persuasive to Americans that will at least be necessary for the Democrats to get up off the map. And I don't think they've quite worked that one out, that the little bubble that they live in is not just silly, but it's really hurting them and their ability to project politically. Chris Murphy is supposed to be exercising his duty as a senator to evaluate whether or not Elise Stefanik deserves his vote. Now, of course, we all know, for various partisan reasons, that he's going to vote against her. But if those comments are aired on television or if they make it down into the newspapers of the general public, they would do nothing. You really think there are people out there who are looking at the new administration and wondering if they're secret Nazis who are persuadable, that Elon Musk deliberately did a Roman solution. It's nonsense. But there are things that both because we have a divided country, people have different ideological views, and because Trump will make mistakes and do things that are illegal or a bad idea that could be pushed out into the voters and be useful to the Democrats. That's not one of them. But it's crowding it out today. That's what they've decided to do today. Right in the middle of a bunch of Senate hearings, right in the middle of a bunch of executive orders, many of which really represent profound policy change, and right in the middle of a bunch of pardons that probably, although I agree with Rich that they're not going to have a huge effect politically, are probably not that popular. So what are they talking about? They're talking about whether or not Elon Musk did a Nazi salute, which nobody thinks he did. And really makes you sound very stupid if you say aloud. And I just find that baffling.

[Megyn Kelly]

They don't realize the fever broke. America woke up from its crazy ass 10 years that went extra crazy. It's supercharged crazy. Post George Floyd. And we're done. We're over it. Get on board with reverting to being normal Americans who don't cast these kinds of aspersions on their fellow citizens at every comment or get left behind. It's. It's up to them. All right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we've got to talk about what Trump did in the Oval Office last night and that amazing exchange with Peter Doocy, which is just like stunning and really fun to watch. Okay, stand by, Rich and Charlie. Stick with us. Life is busy and finding time to shop for clothes can feel impossible. This is why Daily look is a game changer. The number one premium personal styling service for women. Here's how it works. A stylist curates a box of up to 12 pieces tailored to body shape, preferences and lifestyle. Whether chic office outfits or cozy everyday looks are needed. Daily look delivers what fits the moment. Everything can be tried on at home, and you keep what works and send back the rest with free shipping both ways. By the way, it's a seamless, stress free way to Elevate any wardrobe. Daily look works with top brands like Kate Spade and more, offering premium pieces for every occasion. Sizes range from extra small to 3x and 0 to 24, making it an inclusive styling service for everyone. Daily Looks mission is simple. Elevate the personal style of the people who come to them while saving time and effort. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use the code Megan to get 50 off your first order. Dailylook.com for 50 off. And make sure you use my promo code Megan, so they know I sent you and you get your discount. Dailylook.com promo code M, E, G, Y, N okay, so while we've been talking, something extraordinary happened. Trump went to the National Prayer Service. Hold on, let me get this up with. My team just texted it to me. He goes to the National Prayer Service in Washington, D.C. he's there with, I think, the first lady. I saw J.D. vance and this bishop of Washington. It's a woman in the Episcopal Church, Marianne Edgar. Buddy decides to take the opportunity with the newly sworn in president to lecture him on, I believe, LGBTQ rights and how he. He really needs to soften and illegal immigrants. Listen to this woman. In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children, some who fear for their lives. And the people, the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings, who labor in poultry farms and meatpacking plants, who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants and work the night shifts in hospitals. They. They may not be citizens or have the proper documentation, but the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. Oh, my God. Trump. Just at the end there, Trump looks off to the side. You can see, I'm like, all right. Just FYI, this woman, according to the Daily Mail, has a long history of criticizing Trump in his first term, especially after he stood next to the Episcopal Church holding the Bible after clearing protesters out of Lafayette Square. In an interview with CBS the next morning, Buddy slammed Trump's actions, calling them antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that we stand for as a church. She also condemned Trump while attending an outdoor Black Lives matter protest in 2020 wearing a mask during the coronavirus pandemic. Quote, I've given up speaking to President Trump. We need to replace President Trump. I'm sorry, who. Who told President Trump he should go here? This is. This is a failure of the team with all due respect, that he should not been. Have been placed in the position of having to sit there and be lectured to by this woman who clearly hates him.

[Rich Lowry]

Rich Peak, Episcopalian right there. I, I hate to say that's an Episcopalian sermon.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm sorry, but you're right.

[Rich Lowry]

Inveighing against Republican policy. I imagine she's. She thinks she's speaking truth to power, but that's not the time or the place. And it's just bizarre to hear a Christian minister or bishop going on about gay rights like that. But again, that's, that's.

[Megyn Kelly]

And transgender children, which is not a thing. That is a made up thing. Those are kids who are dealing with, most likely their parents, mental illness, but in some cases their own societal struggles, who need therapy from someone who's objective and not trying to push them out of their biological sex, which is not possible. Charles, I can't believe this. I mean, I can believe it, but it's just so annoying. And to Rich's point, I told my audience like a year or so ago, less than I've been going through this process to try to get my first marriage annulled in the Catholic Church. And it created a bit of a crisis of faith for me because, you know, you got to deal with the middleman and why am I dealing with the middleman? And why do the middlemen have all this say over me and my relationship with God? And it led me to have a Woody Allen. It's a good insight. Is that what you said?

[Rich Lowry]

It's a very, very Protestant insight.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it is a Protestant. So it led me to go on like, that journey, I think, I can't remember which movie it was of Woody Allen's, where he goes and he tries out all these religions. But I did kind of dip a toe in Episcopalian to see if I could feel better when I was over there. It was a hard. No, the one, the one service I showed up for was a female pastor, and it was all about transgender children and how we have to accept transgenderism and have. We have to like, be great with transgender kids. It was, I'm like, I'm out. I left middle mid sermon. And sure, how did he get put in this position?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Right. So when Trump was sworn in yesterday, I said to my wife, listen, we're now going to get a whole litany of really annoying people saying annoying things that they didn't during the Biden years. And she said, well, what sort of thing are you thinking of? And I said, I don't know. But every day last Trump administration, there was something that was profoundly stupid or annoying that someone said. And then within 24 hours, we've got perfect examples of this that I couldn't have remembered or imagined. But Elon Musk is a Nazi doing a Nazi salute and he's lectured in a church service by female Episcopalian about transgender children. That is exactly what happens when Trump is president. This is a free floating thought. Why is it that people on the left who think that they are the great friends of illegal immigrants can only talk about them like that? They only ever talk about them as people who do menial tasks. They say they pick things and clean things, and that's the only thing that seems to come to mind as a defense. I don't agree with illegal immigration. I want us to crack down on it very, very strongly. But I would feel a bit weird if I talked about other people like that. Like that was their only role in the world was who's going to do.

[Megyn Kelly]

My nails if you get rid of all the illegals?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

That's not the argument. I mean, that's such a dispiriting argument. The argument is they're people, but they came into the country illegally and they shouldn't, and we have control over our borders and the people who live here get some say over who joins them. That's the argument for having borders, that borders make a nation. The argument is not, well, who's going to do menial work. But even, even a priest or bishop or whatever she is said that. It's so weird to me. They need to.

[Megyn Kelly]

By the way, it's so false. It's like you're so worried about the children. Where, where are you in standing up for girls in sports, which the vast majority of the American population wants to do now? It was President Trump who signed that EO protecting them yesterday. It's President Trump who will restore young men's due process rights on college campuses. What about those children? Does she care about them? Does she care about the young girls who are tied to rape trees along the southern border by these gangs who bring people across? Is that because cracking down at the border will save them? But I didn't hear that in her, quote, sermon. That was the least godly little bit of advice I've heard in a while. And I'm in new, so it's saying something. All right, we've got to get to. We've got to get to Peter Doocy. He goes to the Oval Office. When Trump is just like, you know, freestyling and signing executive orders and Taking questions from the press and listen to this exchange in SOT4, President Trump, did President Biden leave you a letter?

[Peter Doocy]

He may have. Wait, don't they leave it in the desk? I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, what's in there?

[Peter Doocy]

Thank you, Peter. It could have been years before we found it. Wow. Thank you. Maybe we should all read it together.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's read it.

[Peter Doocy]

Well, maybe I'll read it first and then make that determine. Peter, thank you very much. I may not have seen this for months.

[Megyn Kelly]

How are you talking about.

[Peter Doocy]

Unification of our country? You know, I didn't know that he gave a pardon to his family because he did it during my speech.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

He didn't tell you?

[Peter Doocy]

No, he didn't tell me. No, no.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know what's so interesting about that, Rich, is it does show that Trump there, it's such a great example of how he breaks the norms. You know, part one of that exchange, but how he knows where to draw the line. He did not actually read the letter on camera introducing and, and also when asked what they talked about privately earlier in the day, he, he went generic. We talked about unification. He didn't, you know, he respected the relationship and the confidentiality. Even though he was very irritated about those pardons and was saying, I didn't know he did that.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, he just, he's so funny. He's so entertaining. And spontaneously too, right? You got some politicians who can say funny lines because someone writes them for him or her and then he or she can read them. This is a guy just sitting there and the way he reacts. It could have been lost for years. It could have taken us years, Peter, to find it. It's hilarious, right? And he's just coming up with that spontaneously. And again, as we were talking about earlier, just the contrast with Joe Biden, just this total openness, just hanging out with the reporters, signing executive orders and, and making it work for him is just, it's a total contrast of what we've seen in the last four years where Biden had to be controlled in his underlying condition, had to be hidden completely.

[Megyn Kelly]

I've got to ask you this off topic, but in the news, Vivek Ramaswamy is the first victim of Doge, the department he was co heading with Elon. They're so good at creating government efficiencies, they got rid of the second partner in charge of, of finding them. He's officially out now. Charlie. And Politico report that it was because he, he got on people's nerves everywhere. In Mar a Lago, they say and burned bridges. That's what they said. They burned a bunch of bridges. And he finally burned Elon. And it doesn't seem to be wrong because now it's appeared in the Washington Post and Politico and elsewhere, cbs, that Elon had enough of a vague and so they turfed him and they're citing, you know, Trump allies with this, and nobody's pushing back and nobody's saying it's fake news. So he's out. Are you surprised? And what do you make of it?

[Charles C.W. Cook]

Yeah, I mean, as you know, Megan, I'm a huge fan of Vivek's, and I can't imagine a circumstance in which he would get on somebody's nerves or make them want to exile him to the governorship of Ohio, which seems to be his next aspiration. Look, I wrote that piece about him three years ago. I stand by it. He still comes across like that. The only thing I would add is I do wonder if there was a more substantive side to it. I do wonder if he perhaps had different ideas about the administration than Trump or than Elon. It's a very broad coalition. It's a coalition that has managed to bring in Republicans across the spectrum, but also Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And Tulsi Gabbard and others. And Vivek has a lot of ideas of his own. Some of them are good, and I wonder whether he ever played his hand in advancing them. I mean, this is a. A problem. You have an inevitable problem when you put lots of people who've been very successful and who are very intelligent together. And Viveki is a very intelligent man like Elon Musk is. And, you know, how many days do you think it would take for a room filled with Donald Trump, Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk before they started to get irritated with each other? I mean, it's almost inevitable.

[Megyn Kelly]

Big personalities in there. I mean, I think Vivek, we'll see whether he will be attractive to the people of Ohio as their next potential governor. It's the same group that elected Mike DeWine, who refused to appoint Vivek to J.D. vance's Senate seat. But it's a very red state now and it's very pro maga. But how hard will Trump campaign for him? I don't. I'm not sure if these reports are true. Trump was very nice to him at the inauguration. He had a good seat in there. But it does appear that there's been some sort of a fracture between Vivek and Elon, and Elon is Now running Doge without Vivek, they did report that it, the last straw was reportedly that long tweet storm or tweet. That's just a long tweet that he pushed out a couple weeks ago talking about how. Yeah, mediocrity in the American culture and how we need less. Less like prom kings and football stars and more athletes, which I don't know. I like Vivek, but no, wrong. And it didn't go over well with Coromaga either, which doesn't like that kind of commentary. It's more nuanced than that. I'm not being fair to Vivek, but in any event, that this was reportedly the, the straw that broke the camel's back. We'll see. I mean, I like, I like the, I like the efficiencies that they're finding and I guess we'll find out together how many people go Trump's already firing people by tweet, like explicitly saying you're fired holdovers from the last administration. And it's joyful to watch. All of it is joyful to watch, guys. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. They delivered just like I knew they would. I such smart, thoughtful guys, aren't they? And I really like their commentary on the hat. I thought that was our highlight today. Here's what we're going to do. I am going to update a story I mentioned in my comments at the Trump rally on Sunday. I got an extraordinary response from someone I mentioned and you'll hear it in just a minute. Don't go away. And we're back tomorrow with Nicole Shanahan. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and Yoruba. Yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free offer. Details apply before we go an Update on a woman I mentioned during my remarks at the Trump rally the day before his inauguration this past Sunday. Her name is Jody Shaw, and I mention her for a reason. Because in this whole cultural war we've been engaged in, you know, the left trying to force racist DEI policies on us at the federal government level, at the corporate level, in our universities, in The K through 12 system, it's just everywhere we've been winning. But it's thanks to soldiers, citizen soldiers, if you will, like Jody Shaw, who in many cases before the loudmouths among us, found the temerity to stand up and say no and to say, stop this. So Jody Shah worked in an administrative capacity at Smith College, and she was an alum of Smith. And one day she didn't. She didn't have a powerful position there, but one day she just reached the breaking point with the. Over the. I mean, Smith is as leftist as they come. Not only is it, you know, an elite liberal institution, it's reportedly, I think, 50% lesbian. And so this is an institution that supposedly prides itself on tolerance and so on, but as you know, like most of those institutions, they get crazy on issues that are so called woke issues. So that's what was happening at Smith. She one night took to Facebook and in a video, went up there and let him have it. In very measured but clear terms. Here's a sample.

[Jody Shaw]

I ask that Smith College stop reducing my personhood to a racial category. Stop telling me what I must think and feel about myself, because I feel like you do that a lot. I know you do that a lot, and I need you to stop doing that. Stop presuming to know who I am or what my culture is based upon my skin color, because you don't know that. You don't know that about anybody except for yourself. Stop asking me to project stereotypes and assumptions onto others based upon their skin color.

[Megyn Kelly]

So after she did that, it became a national story because it was so compelling. I mean, if you could still go back and be very, very compelled, watching this whole thing, you really kind of can't tear yourself away. She says everything so clearly and so well. And after that happened, Smith, she accused them of making her life a living hell there. They investigated her. They came up with pretextual things she allegedly did wrong, which were obviously thin and unsupported, all of which we explored on this show when I had her on very early in our existence, as she became sort of a hero to me as somebody else who was speaking out about this. But she was so much like she was brave. I had a show and I had an established sort of, well, bank account and other things. Jody didn't. She took a great risk in doing this and she needed her job. As she explained to me when she came on, I was.

[Jody Shaw]

I was on board with this. You know, systemic racism is. Is bad and it's a real problem. And I have white privilege. You know, I had all these voices in my head. I had another voice that was telling me, no, you know, this is. This is racial discrimination. But I actually approached my director about a month before and I said, you know, I'm not comfortable discussing my race. And I think I said, I'm not comfortable discussing my race or any other protected characteristic at work. And she said, no problem, just say that at the meeting. Just say you're uncomfortable. And so I thought, okay, great. So I went to the meeting and the hired facilitators, who presumably have authority in this area, asked us to discuss. I'm paraphrasing, please talk about your understanding about your race culture as if they are one and the same in the context of your childhood years or your adolescent years. It was like a three part question. So everyone went around the room and did so, and I was the last person to respond. And I said, I'm not comfortable talking about that at work. And so later in the presentation, one of the facilitators said, I want to be clear that any white person who expresses any discomfort in discussing their race when asked to, I believe she said, that you might feel like you want to comfort them because they seem uncomfortable, but don't because what they're doing is they're displaying white fragility.

[Megyn Kelly]

On October 27, 2020, was when you released your video, your first Facebook video, calling attention to all of this, the problems there. What made you do that? What was the final straw there?

[Jody Shaw]

Well, the whole time I'm thinking if, you know, I hope they investigate this complaint thoroughly because clearly nobody was even denying that these things had happened, that I was alleging in the complaint, and I hope things can change. But in my mind, I thought that was kind of the last gasp or the last thing I had that I could pull out, because I know the college does not like publicity, especially around anything having to do with race.

[Megyn Kelly]

I read that you're a single mom. Is that true?

[Jody Shaw]

Yes. I mean, yes, I'm divorced.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so you've got a child, you've got to support your child, you've got to support yourself. You did not have a tenured position. So if they fire you, what's the plan to pay the bills.

[Jody Shaw]

Well, I am going to be working in, I'm going to be doing maintenance. I'm going to be painting sheds and removing snow and learning a trade, basically.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why do this? Why put your neck on the chopping block? And was it worth it?

[Jody Shaw]

Because I actually have two kids. It's really for them. I don't think I would be doing this if it wasn't for them because I'm very, very worried, Megan. I'm very worried. I do know a little bit about history. I see something forming that seems dangerous to me. And I, I have two white boys, you know, and I want them to know that who they are is more important than what they look like. And I want them to grow up in a world that, you know, rewards their hard work and not what they look like.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, she ultimately was forced out of Smith College and they engaged in a litigation. I believed at the last I heard where she was trying to fight back and stand up for herself, but she didn't know what was going to happen to her. And that's a unique set of skills. And getting bounced out of a college for being not woke doesn't exactly open doors for you at other elite institutions like Smith. So poor Jody was in a very tough position and I've never stopped thinking about her. I've never stopped thinking about Andrew Gutman, who I mentioned in those remarks. Paul Rossi was another one I meant to mention. And they, these guys take real risks in being one of the first to stand up to their institutions. He's a guy who was a teacher who stood up saying, stop doing this. I just want to teach math. Stop doing this. And I reached out to Jodi before I gave those comments to see if she wanted to just give me an update on her life. I was curious about her. I didn't hear back from her until today and she wrote me such a beautiful response. I really wanted to share it with you. I texted her and said may I? And she said it would be okay. So I'm going to read you what she wrote. Here it is. Hi Megan, thanks for reaching out and thanks for the shout out and kind words spoken at the pre inauguration gathering. I guess I should play those remarks for you before I get to the response. Here's that piece of our story. People like Jody Shaw, you probably don't know that name, but Jody Shaw is an administrative worker at Smith College. She didn't make a lot of money. Single mom, two kids. And in late 2020, early 2021, she had had it with the DEI nonsense at Smith. So she made a Facebook video and she posted it. And little Jody Smith, who is sweet and quiet and not one to shake the tree, said, I don't want to be forced to talk about my race at work anymore. I don't want to be told that I have implicit bias because I'm white. I don't want to have to enforce segregated dorms. Please stop making me do this. And Smith unleashed holy hell on her. Smith, this super tolerant college okay, made it, she alleged later untenable for her to stay. She got forced out of her job, and I'm honestly not sure whether Jody's fully recovered. So she got hurt and she got hurt for all of you and for us and for the rest who are at Smith. She's a hero. Okay? So she says thank you for the shout out and the kind words there. What truly brought a tear to my eye was I don't know if she has recovered. It was a hard thing to go through. Not just Smith, but also the highly public aftermath. I am still trying to rebuild. It's a hard loss, identity, tribe, sense of self, etc. Also still contending with shame and all the other difficult emotions that accompany a highly public humiliation. I think lots of other people feel the same. After he won the election, Trump said, we need to heal. Indeed, we are a wounded and deeply divided populace, and healing and reconciliation is in order if we are to be strong again. I am on a spiritual path now, still trying to stitch myself back together. I'm writing a book, an attempt to explain what happened, why I did it, and how I'm trying to move forward, feel the need to explain it all to the people who suffered the most as a result of my actions. My kids, my siblings, and most of all, myself. Just trying to make sense of it. Still, I am very happy about Trump's victory, as I am sure you are too. I hope you and your family are well. What a beautiful person. What a beautiful woman. The way she says it right, she's trying to stitch herself back together. That makes so much sense to me. Still trying to stitch myself back together. What these people did to us, our country, and individuals like Jody was morally wrong. I would go so far as to say it was evil. And it's still ongoing. As I said in those remarks, we've won many battles and we are winning the war, but it is not over.

[Charles C.W. Cook]

We.

[Megyn Kelly]

We haven't won it overall. And that's why you still have this pernicious ideology being shoved down the throats of college Students coast to coast. Good luck finding one that's not openly conservative, which is only a handful, that's not doing this. And that's the, you know, academy that she came out of. The. The brutal scars that are left by this sort of indoctrination, these sort of really harmful messages about you being an oppressor who's hurting others just by virtue of your skin color, you being evil and bad just by virtue of the melanin you have. Like, it's hard to recover from just that. Never mind what happens to you if you become the victim of a woke mob. You know, somebody like Brett Weinstein, he's changed forever as a result of what they did to him on Evergreen College. The shouting down, the public humiliation and shaming. Now, did he rise again? Better than ever? Absolutely. And I certainly hope that's what happens to Jody Shaw. I would like to submit that the same happened to me and that I've risen, come back better than I was before, but it's not a guarantee. And, you know, I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones. And I don't know if Jody considers herself one of the lucky ones. It sounds like she's still suffering, and it sounds like her kids really had a lot to reconcile with because, you know, they, too, are probably living in that circle and receive very negative messages about their mom and maybe have their own questions. So. So I just. As we celebrate Trump's victory, our victory, it's like remembering the fallen. You know, when you actually do win a war, it's like not forgetting the blood and treasure that was spent to get to this point and honestly, to hold those people accountable. It's not. I know people are like, you know, unify, and even Jody mentions that, but, like, I'm not ready to forgive the people who did this. I'm really not. I know. Maybe it's. Well, it's definitely not consistent with my. The Catholics, Catholic Church's teachings. Somebody was saying after my episode with Billy Bush, I really should forgive Andy. Lack that. That's, you know, that's what we believe as Catholics. And you become bitter if you hold on to the forgiveness. You know, it corrodes yourself, not the other. I guess it does. It hasn't made me bitter. I'm actually really enjoying the loathing I have for him. I don't want to give it up, and I just feel like they're still doing it to us. So I do see them more as enemies who must be defeated as opposed to people with whom I have any intention of unifying. They must be brought to heal. And our new leader is the anti wokester in chief who was onto this mission before the rest of us. So I have total faith in his commitment to the mission and ability to carry it out, but he needs help. The best generals in the world, whether it was George Washington or Patton, needed troops, and that's where all of us come in. Don't let Jody or others stand alone. You know, there's power in numbers. And while our force is riding high right now and feeling euphoric, we can't get overconfident. This stuff is everywhere still. The nation submitted to it. And on the LGBTQ trans stuff, they sneaked it into laws state by state. So we have massive legislative battles to fight, too. It's gonna require donations to the right groups like Independent Women's Forum, like Alliance Defending Freedom. And it's going to require patience and resolve to fight, which I know the people listening to this show have so much love to you all. Much love to you, Jody, and 100% you are welcome to come here when you write that book and update our audience on how it's going. See you guys tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.