← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's "Civilization Will Die Tonight" Iran Warning, and Tucker's Harsh Critique, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1290
01:15:25
Megyn Kelly is joined by Glenn Greenwald, host of "System Update" on Substack, to discuss Trump’s warning to Iran that their "whole civilization will die tonight" without a deal, his shocking negotiation tactics, the spin about whether Trump should be taken literally or seriously, Trump’s shifting message from “liberating” the Iranian people to wiping them out, the long-term ramifications of escalating war in Iran, how Trump’s MAGA focus shifted from domestic policy to foreign policy in 2026, how this focus will affect the midterms, longtime Trump supporter Tucker Carlson’s strongest critique of the Iran war yet, how Lindsey Graham and Mark Levin have become such massive influences of Trump and this administration, and more. More from Greenwald- https://greenwald.substack.com/ SimpliSafe: Visit https://simplisafe.com/MEGYN to claim 50% off any new system! DailyLook: https://dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code MEGYN for 50% off your first order. Sundays for Dogs: Up...
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- [00:01]
Megyn Kelly
What are you doing in a meeting? That could have been an email. That's right. You're losing interest. Don't let it happen to your money, too. Vanguard's CashPlus account can't help you at work, but we can help with your savings because Vanguard believes in giving you more. So how much interest could you earn? Find out@vanguard.com cashplus offered by Vanguard Marketing Corporation member FINRA and SIPC.
- [00:31]
Glenn Greenwald
To realize the future America needs. We understand what's needed from us to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are Marines. We were made for this.
- [00:46]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. It is Tuesday, April 7, and all eyes are on Iran. As a reminder, President Trump posted on Truth Social on Easter Sunday morning, quote, Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day all wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Open the fucking straight F U C K I N apostrophe you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah, unquote. Mr. Trump later clarified, the deadline is at 8pm Eastern. Tonight, reports have been all over the place on whether or not the US And Iran are close to reaching a deal. But as of this broadcast, the Strait of Hormuz is still closed. And President Trump this morning on Truth Social was not mincing words. I mean, truly, just taking it to the next level. Quote, a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. However, now that we have complete and total regime change where different, smarter and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionarily wonderful can happen. Who knows? We will find out tonight. One of the most important moments in the long and complex history of the world. 47 years of extortion, corruption and death will finally end. God bless the great people of Iran. Now, as you can imagine, that post did not go over well with the Iranians or with many Americans. I mean, I don't know about you, but I am sick of this shit. I'm just. I'm sick of it. Can he just behave like a normal human? I mean, honestly, like the President. I3D shut up. Fucking shut up about that shit. You don't threaten to wipe out an entire civilization. We're talking about civilians just casually in a social media post. You know Like, I, I am the first to try to understand Trump and his strategy and to not freak out over his weird social media posts and language that is loose and incendiary. Truly, I've lived with it for 10 plus years. I learned it the hard way when I was on the receiving end of it for nine months. And truly, I think that was a gift to me in many ways because it helped me really come to understand what he does with his social media. But this is completely irresponsible and disgusting. This is wrong. It's wrong. He should not be doing it. I don't care that it's a negotiate. His negotiation tactic is to kill an entire country full of civilians, men, women and children. An American president, so that the Strait of Hormuz will be open. It's just wrong. It's not, not hard to say it. It's not hard to recognize it. I wish he would stop doing this. Like, he can't negotiate without doing this. What does that say about him? What does that say about the, the position that our country is in right now in these negotiations? He's got to, he's got to say this. He can't be a dignified, strong leader without threatening a bunch of war crimes. Like he, what is, what is he, Genghis Khan? Like, what, what is he trying to do? And why can't he do it with strength? Threats, sure, go for it. That don't diminish and demean the United States of America in this way. All right, the Wall Street Journal reporting that Iran has broken off direct communications with America because of the President's threat. But that talks still continue through mediators. Who knows? But the hour approaches. So where does that leave us? Joining me now to try to make sense of all this is Glenn Greenwald. He's the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and host of System Update, who is now back on substack. Greenwald.substack.com Traditional home security companies can make the whole process a headache. They can make it expensive. There's monthly fees and long contracts that lock you in for years. It's like, oh, my God, what am I, like, getting a mortgage or just a security system? And a lot of these systems require a technician to come install everything. It just, it can get overly complicated and daunting, and you don't want it. But let me tell you about a different kind of company. It's called SimpliSafe. They make protecting your home straightforward. And the system is designed to cover everything that matters. What stands out about Simplisafe is that it's not just one device. It's a complete security system. And it's all backed by SimpliSafe's 247 professional monitoring agents who are ready to respond and dispatch emergency help if something happens. Over 5 million people trust SimpliSafe every day. U.S. news and World Report ranks them the best home security system of 2026. How about that, numero Uno? Consider experiencing peace of mind with Simplisafe and this exclusive discount. Right now you can get 50% off your new system. 50% off the new system just by visiting simplisafe.com Megan that's half off at S I M p l I safe.com Megan There is no safe like simply safe. Check it out. Glenn, Great to see you. Your take on the president's latest negotiation tactic, which is his supporters have run to X and elsewhere to say you, you can't take him literally. The old Selena Zito. You take them seriously, but not literally. That's what the likes of Mark Levin are literally posting on X right now. Seriously, but not literally. This is the same crowd that has been lecturing us, President Trump doesn't bluff. So which is it? He doesn't bluff and he really is prepared to wipe out Iranian civilization tonight. Or take him seriously, but not literally. It's just a tactic. Move on, you hysterical panic.
- [07:24]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I think there's a lot to say. I mean, I want to echo first what you said, which is I'm somebody who has spent a decade now insisting that liberals and the left restrain their reactions to everything that Trump says, that he purposely exaggerates, that he says things to provoke a response. It's part of what made him this big Manhattan real estate salesman. You know, you kind of like say this is the greatest building ever in history. You threaten litigation. I've seen him do that. I was a litigator in Manhattan for more than a decade when he was at his prime and in his tabloid years. And I saw him do that many times. So there has been a huge overreaction on the part of liberals to these kinds of utterances in the past. That said, there's a big difference between saying when Robert Mueller dies, oh, I'm really glad he's dead, even though he's a war hero and ran the FBI and whatever, you can understand that. And it doesn't really have any real world consequences. Even if I just like it. I don't particularly like celebrating people's deaths that way. But that is a whole different universe from being someone who's the leader of the most powerful country in the world, the nuclear armed power currently at war. We're blowing up Iranian bridges and schools and oil refineries and poisoning their air and their water. We've killed huge numbers of civilians starting on the first day when we evaporated 170 young Iranian schoolgirls. Not deliberately, but nonetheless, they're dead all the same. And this has been going on all
- [08:55]
Megyn Kelly
throughout, something for which we still have not taken responsibility, even though the American President knows it happened. It was not deliberate. But what you do when you make a mistake of that caliber is you own it, you apologize for it, and you restate the principles to which we are committed, which does not include bombing civilians and does include expressing regret once we've done it. Keep going, Glenn.
- [09:17]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, right, I mean, you apologize and take accountability if it's something that you're actually concerned about, but if you have kind of a reckless indifference to life, which again, I don't think the United States government or the military, I'm quite certain, would do that on purpose, if for no other reason than it completely undermines their own self interest. I don't think the US Military goes around massacring young schoolgirls on purpose. Nonetheless, the whole point of this war was supposed to be that we, at least in part, were there because we wanted to liberate and save and bring freedom to the Iranian people. This was what we heard in the months leading up to the war, that the Iranian government was violent and repressive, had killed tens of thousands of protesters. How many depends on the day. But then you enter a war and it's not just, quote, unquote, collateral damage or even being a little bit reckless. Now we're at the point where we're threatening to eradicate their, quote, unquote, civilization. And it's not like this is just a one off today. Megan and he over the weekend called a bunch of reporters, including ABC News's Rachel Scott, where he said, yeah, I'm basically on the verge. If we don't get a deal tomorrow, I'm going to destroy the whole country. And she said, you mean the whole country? Is anything off the table? And he's like, basically, no, very little. He also, as you pointed out on Easter Sunday, said that the next thing we're going to do is destroy all of their power plants, meaning we're going to eliminate the possibility for energy in Iran, which is what hospitals run on, schools run on, young, young people who are sick, use them on incubators. Obviously it's necessary for civilized life and These are not idle threats because he has been doing things like bombing bridges. But let's say it is an idle threat because he has made these threats before, giving them deadlines and then extended them, even though Iran really hasn't asked for any extensions. Let's say we get to 8 o' clock tonight and he's like, just kidding, I'm not really going to do anything. Or he does something like a tiny fraction of what he vowed to do. What then happens to the word of the American president or the credibility of American threats? How does anyone think about how it would happen if we go through? And, well, he could.
- [11:21]
Megyn Kelly
I could see him, I agree, but that's not how it happened. This is how it would happen. If history is any guide, what will happen is between now and then, he will say, the Iranians have been totally reasonable and they have come to the table ready to negotiate. And finally we have a chance at real peace with this new, you know, rational, much less radical leadership. I congratulate them on a very smart decision. And therefore the 8 o' clock deadline is off. He'll. He'll back down. There's, there's no doubt in my mind that Trump does not plan on eradicating the Iranian civilization. He is not a madman. He doesn't intend on causing any intentionally millions of civilian deaths. He's just saying it, which is just, I mean, it's, that's better than actually planning on doing it. But it's, it's such a crude, inappropriate, offensive negotiation tactic. Like I'm gonna there. I'm sure there are people sitting in Iran tonight wondering whether this is their last night on Earth because they don't know President Trump as well as we do, and they've been told nothing but terrible things about him. He's not being responsible in, in his messaging. And why is this necessary? What's happened that we are in such a weakened position that we now have to start saying stuff like this, Glenn, in order to get the Iranians where we want them?
- [12:48]
Glenn Greenwald
Megan, I agree with you, insofar as if I were forced to bet or set odds, I would set them overwhelmingly against, not just Trump using nuclear weapons, which, you know, it just should be unthinkable. But even inflicting the kind of systematic damage that would, you know, eliminate all Iranian power because it's just such a horrific war crime that it's irreversible. But I think what's so important to realize here is that whether Trump was deceived or whether he miscalculated the Iranians have demonstrated a kind of strength that has put the United States in an extremely difficult position. Trump isn't just saying, oh, we have to negotiate. He's saying in a very specific goal, the Strait of Hormuz has to and be open. Now, obviously the Strait of Hormuz was open before this war. It only closed as a result of the war. It's so bizarre, Megan, that this war now seems to be about rectifying a problem that did not exist before the war began that was created only as a result of the war itself, namely, the Strait of Hormuz being closed. The Strait of Hormuz was fully open before this war. Iran closed it only as a reaction to being attacked by Israel and the United States. And the possibility that Iran will reopen the Strait of Hormuz without a full scale cessation of this war and guarantees that it won't happen in the future is basically zero. Why would they open the Strait of Hormuz? They're charging a lot of money and making a lot of money off it. It gives them a lot of leverage that they didn't previously have. And they've shown the ability, and it's ongoing, to launch cruise missile ballistic missiles. This is the real danger with wars. You know, we almost came to nuclear annihilation with the Russians in 1961. Not because either side wanted to, not because either side was crazy or mad men. It was just wars create all kinds of misperceptions and miscommunication and fears that if you don't act first, you're going to get acted upon. And that's why wars are so dangerous. That's why we ought to oppose them.
- [14:50]
Megyn Kelly
Trump doesn't care what he said before. He has zero commitment to consistency. So he will be happy to say, oh, they're being much more reasonable, listened to me, and they've come to see reason. And now we've negotiated, entered into serious negotiations about a great settlement that will make everybody happy and it will, my God, you know, make him make Iran great again. He won't require them to reopen the Strait because they're not going to do that tonight. So it's either that or the beginning of World War iii. One of those two things is about to happen, and we really don't know which. And that's not great. That's really not great, Glenn. I mean, there, there isn't a person in America other than the, the far rabid neocons, Mark Levin, Lindsey Graham, Ben Shapiro, that wants this thing to escalate. And yet that is the President's other option. Either he does the taco, you know, whatever, save face, I don't care, do it, do the damn taco. Or he escalates and we are in the Professor Pape escalation cycle where it you get trapped into reciprocal escalations that equal a quagmire. So, you know, I'll take taco every day of the week. I don't care. But you tell me what you think Trump is about to do.
- [16:19]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, I mean, again, I also doubt that he's going to do something extreme or something that is some kind of historic evil. And maybe it's just because in these cases, we can't fathom that it will happen, we so want it not to happen, that maybe that influences our perception of the likelihood that it will. But I agree with you that he will try and find a way out of this. My big concern is, though, you said that other than this very extremist faction, nobody wants this war to escalate. The problem is that he really does seem to be listening to this extremist faction. I think a lot of people, myself included, believe that he would never fall into the trap of getting the United States involved in a major Middle east war again unless some country attacked us first, which of course, didn't happen. And yet here we are. And, you know, when you talk about people like Mark Levin or Laura Loomer, these are people who have for a long time basically been saying that Iranian civilization needs to be nuked and they need to be wiped out. And these do seem to be the people that he's listening to now. Again, maybe that's part of the ruse. Maybe that's part of, you know, he liked having John Bolton next to him in the first administration because he said he was so crazy that it actually deterred aggression or made people, you know, think twice. Maybe he likes having more Levin and Laura Loomer and crazy people like this, you know, as the face of the administration. But it's hard to discount their influence when we are now involved in a major war into the six week that has no end in sight.
- [17:51]
Megyn Kelly
You cannot discount their influence. I mean, just on Sunday, Trump was tweeting out that the Supreme Court needs to watch Mark Levin's show on Fox on Sunday nights, which would double his viewership. It would if. If they would. If those nine justices would watch. It's incredible. He has absolutely no fan base, none whatsoever. Except for the President of the United States, who's obsessed with this far rabid. Again, I'm not gonna say far right Far left. He's a far rabid neocon who is desperate. He is dripping drool at the thought of seeing more Iranians die. And some of us, some of us did care that the Iranians were bombing their own people when they were trying to protest on the streets and said that was deeply wrong and haven't been Iran apologists. And some of us continue to care about those same people being threatened by our own president tonight. Okay, like there's, some of us are completely consistent because that's Mark Levin's latest position. Like, how dare if you didn't complain about Iran killing its own people, you can't complain about the President's threats. First of all, you are not in charge of what people believe and say on the Internet. And second of all, some of us have been perfectly consistent. We're against killing. Against killing. That's been our position. And Mark Levin certainly cannot say that about himself. But it's disgusting how much influence he has. Sean Ryan has a better take. He, he responded to the President's post by saying, writing a few weeks ago, Trump said he was going to liberate the Iranian people from an evil regime. Now he's changed his plan to kill them all. The President of the United States, in a nutshell, I mean, that's really. If you believe what he's saying and Lindsey Graham says he doesn't bluff, then that is what he's doing. He's gone from saying I'm going to liberate them to slowly upping the ante. This week he's been saying they've been asking for more bombings. Even the areas that we leave without bombing, we get the intercepts of the people saying come back and bomb us, okay? And to the next step of we are going to. A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I mean, if you really do believe the President, if you take him at his word, you know, if we can trust the word of the American president, he is on an escalatory ladder. That. Why, why wouldn't he use nukes? Glenn, if, you know, if you believe him, why, why not? I mean, you're gonna blow out the whole civilization, use our best tool.
- [20:17]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, that's the concern. We did use nuclear weapons before, and it was World War II. And that was because Harry Truman got convinced that fewer people would die if we use nuclear weapons than if we didn't. And maybe that calculation was correct, maybe that that wasn't. But that shows you how leaders can be led to believe that the rational and most moral course, is to exterminate hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic weapon. And obviously, the weapons that we have now, even non nuclear ones, are vastly more destructive than those. And that is what they're telling him. They're kind of trying to get him to think that he will be the Churchill figure, he will be this historic figure who finally brought an end to this Iranian problem. And he can do that only if he really ends the war once and for all, instead of allowing it to drag on forever. And when you combine that with Trump's desire not to have this war go on forever, which is just a political instinct that he has had for at least a decade, that is a potentially concerning combination. The other thing I want to just add, Megan, is, you know, we're told in every war that the reason we have to go to war is because the regime that we want to attack is so evil to its own people. We heard that about the Iraq war. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people, about the Taliban, how they don't allow girls and women to go outside. We heard that about the Libyan war, about Qaddafi was going to massacre everybody in Benghazi, about the Vietnam War, that the North Korea. This is, you know, standard war propaganda. And the problem with it is not that it's false. There are a lot of terrible regimes in the world. It's that we don't go to war because a regime is murdering its own people. We support and prop up and have installed a lot of dictatorships that do exactly that. You think the Saudis treat their protesters, or the Egyptians treat their protesters and honor meticulously their civil liberties? No, they gun them down. They slaughter them in the street. And we not only tolerate that, but
- [22:11]
Megyn Kelly
we women just got their ability to drive in Saudi Arabia a couple years ago. Yes, exactly right. No. And by the way, also, the Saudis took apart that journalist Khashoggi, and Trump was like, there are people we gotta deal with in this world. Yes, there are. So why do we bomb some dismithereens, but we, quote, deal with the others?
- [22:30]
Glenn Greenwald
Right? And it's not just that we find these bad people and tolerate them. We engineer coups to overthrow democratically elected governments in various countries and install and impose on them vicious tyrannies. That's why Iran hates us. That's why they chant Death to America, because we did that to Iran in 1953 when we overthrew their government and opposed the Shah of Iran on them, who brutally repressed all kinds of religious minorities. This is a thing that we've done over and over. And so, you know, when it comes time where you're supposed to jump through the hoop and condemn the Iranian government for killing its own people, of course, if someone asks me directly what do I think of the Iranian government, I'm going to make clear that I certainly wouldn't want to live under it. But it's important that we realize that this is not the motive of the US Government. We don't go to wars to free the oppressed peoples around the world. And I don't think we should do that either. The problem is, is that that's the propaganda that's used to make Americans feel good about these wars. When we're not saving people. Yeah. We have enough to worry about ourselves. I mean, that was the whole promise of the America first movement. Remember? We weren't going to get involved in these Middle east wars. We weren't going to waste all our money filling the coffers of Palantir and General Dynamic and Raytheon. We were going to revitalize American communities that are ridden with drug addiction and suicide and depression and deindustrialization. People have to work three jobs. They can't have babies or buy a house until they're 35 or 40. That's what we're going to change. We're going to put the American people first for once and for all. And all the second term has been other than closing the border, which, you know, I think Trump deserves credit for. But beyond that, it's been an endless focus on the Middle east, on Israel, on Gaza, on, you know, bombing Yemen, on bombing Iran last year and bombing them again with a major war. Now, everything that Trump vowed that his administration would be about, the opposite is taking place.
- [24:17]
Megyn Kelly
You're busy. I know. But let me tell you about Daily Look. It's the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. Daily look is a game changer, ladies. You get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. I mean, a real personal stylist, not an algorithm. And you get the same stylist every time to build continuity. She knows what's in your wardrobe and what you guys have built together. So head on over to DailyLook.com and use the code Megan to get 50% off your first order. You can try on up to 12 premium pieces per box in the comfort of your own home, saving you time and effort whether you need something effortlessly chic for spring brunch. Oh, spring brunch. That sounds Nice. Yes. You want to look good for that or a polished look for the office or school drop offs. Daily look has got you covered. But what you love, you keep it and you buy it. Okay? Then you send back the rest that you don't love. You will get free shipping both ways. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use the code Megan to get 50% off your first order. Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 5. 50% off. And make sure you use our promo code Megan so they know we sent you one last knot. One last time for you. Daily look.com promo code Megan. What are you doing in a meeting? That could have been an email. Losing interest. Don't let it happen to your money too. Vanguard's Cash plus account can't help you at work, but we can help with your savings. Find out how much interest you could earn@vanguard.com cashplus offered by Vanguard Marketing Corporation, Member FINRA and SIPC. Yeah, we're spending over a billion dollars a day on this war, which could cost us up to 200 billion now between 150 billion, 200 billion that Trump is going to ask for now from, from Congress. And there's no wall, by the way. We did not build a wall down to the south. When the next president gets in there, a Democrat. And it's not like we talked about how Rahm Emanuel at least said, I'll leave the border alone. I like what Trump did. The others don't feel that way. Gavin Newsom gets in there. He's not going to leave those policies alone. His base is going to pressure him to let in more potential Democrats and there's no wall to stop them. Whatever happened to that? Whatever happened, we're going to build a wall. Mexico is going to pay for it. That didn't happen. But we care about ourselves. Tim Dillon has, he's been so great on this. I love him. And he, he was one of my first guests on this show. Glenn. Not he came after you. The godfather of the Megyn Kelly show.
- [26:51]
Glenn Greenwald
Not the first, but he did.
- [26:52]
Megyn Kelly
He was one of our first that. Not the first. You were the first. And he said to me then he was making fun of himself saying like during the Iraq war, you know, I was trying to like pretend I knew what the hell I was like, well, you know, the Shia and this. And like he was mocking about how we all turned into these stupid mini pretend experts on Middle east policies. Meanwhile, it's like, to truly understand the Middle East, I mean, you need to spend your life, like, immersed in it. You can be like us on the outskirts, like, and have seen enough to get some basic principles. But he was mocking. I love Tim Dillon. And, and here he's grown so much. His comedy has grown, his. His insights have grown. And here he is saying it like no one can on where our heads are at.
- [27:40]
Glenn Greenwald
I don't give a fuck about Iran either. Sorry. Throw him out if you don't like him. It has nothing to do with me. And the fact that, that, that the idea that I have to give a flying. You should be standing with Iran. Shut the fuck up, will you Shut the fuck up. If they want to throw the bums who run Iran out, throw them the fuck out. But the idea that the United States of America, when people can't afford houses and they can't afford health care, spends all its fucking time talking about the Middle east and fucking Arabs and Jews and religion and the fucking temple and slaughtering the heifer and Iran and Sunnis and Shiite, get. What the fuck is going on? Truly, what the fuck is going on that we're told, well, is Iran Sunni or Shia? What. What is happening? Okay, We. Our own country is being destroyed and it's going down the toilet.
- [28:45]
Megyn Kelly
Mic drop right there. That he speaks for me and millions of Americans. Glenn.
- [28:52]
Glenn Greenwald
That. Megan, this is why Trump won. It's so amazing if you watch how MAGA people who are still totally blindly on board with Trump. I don't mean voting for him, but I mean just like cheering for this war and everything he does. If you see how they react to Tim Dillon, including that clip, which, you know, is something he's been saying for a while, they will act like he's some sort of leftist or liberal or traitor. Whereas this was what Donald Trump has been telling the American people, maybe not in such colorful language, although close to it, for a decade now. I would say it's the major reason why he was propelled to victory was because of this sense on the part of Americans. Very valid. That both parties have a whole list of priorities that just don't include them. It includes everybody but the American people, these international elites and these global institutions and these banks and the military industrial complex and foreign wars. Everybody except the American people. Trump called them the forgotten man and woman in his inauguration. And the second term of this administration has been about everybody except for them. Meaning it's just a continuation of the same bipartisan sewer that we've had in this country for 30 years where so much of our welfare has been destroyed by foreign wars.
- [30:02]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, that, that is how it feels when it comes to war. We cannot win no matter who we put in there. Somebody who was like the first to challenge the Republican base, the Republican establishment bearers by saying, what are you doing? The war in Iraq was a disaster. Why are we spending all this money in the Middle East? No war in the Middle, like explicitly said no wars in the Middle east. Under my presidency started, started a war in the Middle East. And now. Well, I'll get to the latest report that just dropped from the New York Times, but I want a couple of things before we get there because we're learning more about exactly how we got into this. And it's not just Mark Levin. It's also Ben Benjamin Netanyahu is the New York just dropped in a long, long post. And also I want to talk about nukes because, because of all the comments and because JD Vance said something that had a lot of people wondering if he was implying nuclear use. The president has now had to come out to say the White House to say we're not talking about nukes. We're not going to nuke Iran. But here is what CNN just reported. Pakistani Prime Minister Shabazz Sharif has asked warring parties to observe a two week ceasefire to, to allow diplomacy to achieve conclusive termination of war. That's a quote in a post on X. He has asked US President Donald Trump to extend his deadline on Iran by two weeks and for Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz during that two week period. I don't think that Iran is going to do that. I don't know. I think President Trump would love an off ramp and would love to take this, but I don't think the Iranians are going to say yes to that because, and I don't mean this as a compliment, but it's just a truth. They have been some tough M efforts in this whole thing. They seem extremely angry that they've been attacked and they recognize that their behavior is, is successfully ratcheting up the pressure, the political pressure on Donald Trump. Now. So let me, let me throw that to you whether you think this Pakistani sort of, you know, olive branch by the prime minister is going to work.
- [32:05]
Glenn Greenwald
Here's the problem from the Iranian perspective, which is, you know, the United States attacked Iran last year and one night the Israelis attacked for 12 days. And Trump said afterwards, okay, the nuclear problem is solved. We obliterated totally and completely their nuclear program. We don't have to worry about it anymore. And now here we are, eight, nine months later, and we're right back attacking them again in an even bigger war. So their concern is that if we have a ceasefire, and I think this is really crucial. You know, one of the reasons that the Israelis had to stop the 12 day war last year was because they were running out of these anti missile defense systems that are extremely expensive to produce, that take years in order to get on the manufacturing line, and that the United States has depleted its stockpile in Yemen and Ukraine and with Israel. The Israelis have, and so have the Persian Gulf states. And right now, what you're seeing is this increase in the number of missiles and drones that are getting through the air defenses of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Iraq and Bahrain, but also Israel. And what the Iranians are petrified by, and I don't blame them, is that right now they have leverage. The Strait of Hormuz is closed. They're constantly battering Israel and American bases throughout the region in a way that Trump was convinced wouldn't happen. When every article I've ever read over the last 20 years about Iran was that that would be their strategy. And they have the upper hand in a sense. And what they're worried about is a two week ceasefire will just give the Israelis and the Americans time to replenish, time to strengthen themselves, time to figure out how they want to attack and defeat an Iranian attack, and then the attack will just resume. After two weeks. The Iranians won't do a ceasefire unless they're convinced that it will stop war, not just now, but into the future. And I don't blame them.
- [33:52]
Megyn Kelly
I know, because we continue to sacrifice our credibility every time we sit down with them. We, we bombed them. It's like the thing with Jared Kushner and Steve Wyckoff is like they were negotiating, they thought in good faith. The intermediaries actually thought we were making progress. And the next thing they knew, we bombed them and killed the Ayatollah as well as several of their top leaders. And again, the New York Times moments ago, just dropping a long piece on exactly how that happened. It was Bibi Netanyahu in the Situation Room. Not even at, like a side seat. Like, well, President Trump was at the head. President Trump sat on the side of the table and Netanyahu sat across from him like equals in the Situation Room. It's just, it's unfathomable. And this guy talked him into sacrificing American blood and treasure for Israel. And I don't care how many times People try to shame me out of saying that it's true. So that's how we got into this mess. But here's, here's the thing. I'm worried that President Trump, even though he doesn't actually intend to, that a civilization will die tonight. President Trump doesn't handle his temper all that well, and he is getting angry. You can see it. One of the reasons why I think he's gotten rid of Pam Bondi and several others are now potentially on deck. You know, every day we hear another report of, he's looking. He's looking at Tulsi, possibly looking at Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. We've heard some other names, too. He's. His fuse is short because he is seeing the domestic political consequences of the Iran war not going well and of all the promises that were made to him by Netanyahu falling apart. I think he's angry at Netanyahu for that, and I think he's angry at people like Tucker who he's lashing out at now, saying he's a low IQ individual. Okay, sure, not all of us can be as high IQ as Lindsey Graham, but, you know, he'll work on it. He's lashing out. And so, you know, you don't want Trump feeling like a caged animal, Glenn, because that is when the president could do something very rash and very dangerous.
- [36:09]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, but, Megan, this is what I think is really the heart of it all, is we like to think of the United States as being this extremely stable power that acts only with the most calculated analysis and the most ethical, clear ethical lines. And that's just not the case for any kind of human institution driven by human beings. All human beings are susceptible to anger and frustration and lashing out. And then you add on to that. And I do think this is a big factor both with Netanyahu and Trump. The older you get, like, the more into your 80s you get, the more into your 90s you get. Trump's obviously 80. Netanyahu is heading there. I really do think it's natural that people start focusing way more on their quote, unquote legacy. Like, how is history going to remember them? And less so on the world that they don't have all that much longer to inhabit. That's just the reality. And my big concern is that Trump, with this anger and frustration, I mean, he's, you know, you have the Iranians who are basically humiliating the United States under Trump. And Trump hates nothing more than some inferior power being able to stand up to him and defy him and give him the middle finger as they've been doing. And I don't think he has a lot of patience because he doesn't want this war to go on that much longer. He knows how damaging it is politically.
- [37:29]
Megyn Kelly
This just in via the New York Times. President Trump has been made aware of Pakistan's request to extend his deadline by two weeks, said Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, Quote, a response will come. She said in a statement, this. I mean, this has here's your out written all over it. So he gets to sound tough. I was gonna get him. And I mean, we'll see. To your point, Iran has no incentive to agree to a ceasefire. They believe that we are just gonna reload and regroup, and that's the last thing they want. And on the other hand, I don't think. I mean, right now, what we're seeing in Iran is they're using civilians. Their children are now linking hands and surrounding what Trump said would be the stated targets anyway, the bridges, the power plants. And there is no way that General Kaine is going to authorize strikes on power plants like this one with a bunch of civilians, including children, standing outside of it. So, you know, the Trump defenders say check chess, not checkers, you idiots. That was, that was all a diversion from what he's really going to do. They wasted their res. I'm like, I'm so sick of this. Like, I'm just so sick of this nonsense. How long are we going to be focused on this? Instead of health care, the border mortgages, credit card debt and crime.
- [38:54]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. And re. Re. Re. Importing, manufacturing jobs and all the other things that we were promised that are the real problems of our country? I mean, does anyone. Do you know anybody, Megan, who, prior to this war, other than people who are loyal to Israel, who were worried on their behalf, who were waking up and saying, oh, I think the number one problem in my life, the thing that I'm most worried about, is what the Iranian government is doing. You know, this is why the Democrats failed in so, so spectacularly when they spent years just talking about Russia and Putin and the Kremlin. And it just never resonated with anybody because people weren't waking up, afraid of the Russians. They weren't. They didn't feel like the Russians were the source of the. In their lives. And I don't believe that people woke up and thought the Iranians were either. I mean, they didn't even think the Iraqis were back in 2002. And that was why a whole long 18 month campaign was necessary to convince them that Iraq was tied to 9 11. But there was no such campaign here. And I think you're absolutely right. Like we can sit here and speculate about is this just a ruse for Trump to get out? Are the Iranians really participating in an off ramp? Because it's easy for us to sit here and have parlor games about whether Trump will use nukes or really follow through. But if you're in Iran, it's not actually abstract. You're of course worried about that and trying to hurt it. The last time that Trump said a deadline extension because they asked for it, the Iranians said we didn't ask for anything. We don't want another extension. We don't need that. Maybe they'll say the same thing, but who knows? But as you say, look at where all our focus is back on the Middle east, back on a country that cannot attack the United States, has not attacked the United States. There's never been a terrorist attack from Iranian terrorists or Shia terrorists. This is all a completely fabricated pretext for a war that Americans just don't want and don't care about for very good reason.
- [40:47]
Megyn Kelly
I'll tell you some another problem with that Trump tweet. A whole civilization will die tonight. That's the kind of thing that will get raised at the primary debates with all of the Republican candidates. Do you stand by that? Did you think that was appropriate? Did President Trump handle himself well and represent the United States government well with that? I mean, I could come up with a, an A plus level hard fastball using just that phrase alone just to embarrass everybody. And it will happen. So it's like, but I don't think Trump cares about that. I really don't think he cares about legacy building or making sure that the torch gets carried on. And that brings me to J.D. vance. So J.D. vance is over in Hungary. And by the way, the New York Times article that just hit on how we got into this thing points out that J.D. vance was not there for the Benjamin Netanyahu presentation. He was overseas sent by the President. He came back and was there the next day when we met Americans only and the Times makes clear discouraged the war. He believed if we were to do it, that we should do it with overwhelming force. So it was over quickly. But it makes very clear in the most explicit terms yet that JD Vance was against this. And one of the points he raised was it's going to blow apart your coalition. Now, clearly somebody close to the Vice President spoke to the Times because as this thing goes south, I think he's getting more open about his opposition. You know, he's in a very tight, tough spot because clearly he might run. He needs to be able to tell the base, I wasn't for it. But right now he needs to be able to tell his boss, I've got your back. It's, it's impossible. So I'll get you to comment on that. But let me just play you this soundbite that he, that he gave overseas that then led the White House to come out to say, no one's nuking anybody. Sat 5 this is today.
- [42:38]
Glenn Greenwald
But we feel confident that we can get a response. Whether it's positive or negative. We're going to get a response from the Iranians by 8 o' clock tonight. I hope they make the right response, because what we really want is we
- [42:50]
Tucker Carlson
want a world where oil and gas
- [42:52]
Glenn Greenwald
is flowing freely, where people can afford to heat their homes and cool their homes, where people can afford to transport themselves to work. That's not going to happen if the Iranians are engaged in acts of economic terrorism. So they've got to know we've got tools in our toolkit that we so far haven't decided to use. The President. United States can decide to use them, and he will decide to use them if the Iranians don't change their course of conduct.
- [43:17]
Megyn Kelly
Now, I personally think he probably meant some of the stuff that we reportedly used in Venezuela, like some of these devices that messed with people's hearing. I don't know. But the White House had to come out later and say, we're not thinking about dropping a nuke. And Tucker Carlson has been very, very, very worried about dropping a nuke. I'll get to Tucker and the nuke thing next, Glenn, because I do. That's a separate discussion, but can you just speak to the position J.D. vance is in, because I know you do not think it's a good one.
- [43:45]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, I mean, just on this issue, again, there are ways to completely obliterate Iranian society without using nuclear weapons. We do have conventional weapons in our arsenal that are comparably destructive to certain atomic weapons that we have never used. And so it could be that J.D. vance is alluding to those. It could be that he's alluding to the destruction of their power plants, which President Trump has explicitly threatened to do, but yet, which we have not yet done, and just leave that whole country for years or generations without any power, without any power for their incubators or their, their, any hospitals or any of the Things that we've discussed, gasoline, the things that you need to keep society reasonably advanced. The problem is, you know, I mean, Matthew says you shall know them by the. By their fruits. And so J.D. vance can kind of leak to as many people as he wants. And I know he's doing this. He's leaking to all sorts of people anyone can get his hands on that he was against this war, that he was never for it. But at the end of the day, he's out there tying himself to it. He's defending it. He's actually defending these threats that President Trump has made. And while, yes, in a sense, the vice president looks at the president as his boss, in reality that's not really what the. The president is. J.D. vance could express dissent. I mean, he would be over for him in terms of his responsibilities in the administration. But it's not like you could be fired. But I don't think this middle ground of explicitly defending the war, but then leaking that you really were kind of opposed to it. If anything, that makes it look extremely weak. Like, I'm willing to oppose it in secret and through leaks, but not through action. And there have been people who have quit the government, including Joe Kent, in opposition to this war. Daniel Ellsberg almost went to prison over the Vietnam War. I mean, that's the act of leadership that I think people expect.
- [45:34]
Megyn Kelly
I don't. I feel like he's in a very tough spot and he's handling it well because he's telegraphing, he said, directly to the boss, according to the Times, like, this isn't going to work out the way you think it is and the way Netanyahu predicted, which that's his obligation. But he publicly, he has to have his, his partner, his senior partners back. Otherwise, he's got no choice, no chance to succeed politically because he cannot get elected as the next president without MAGA. And Matt, while MAG is a shrinking number, it's like 15% of the population and shrinking by the day. You need him as a Republican. You do. So he's in a tough spot. Another reason why this thing should wrap up asap. By the way, it also reports that Marco Rubio was not enthusiastic about this thing either. You know who was? Mark Levin, Lindsey Graham, some Fox News personality and chief of all, Benjamin Netanyahu. Yeah, Benjamin Netanyahu was. He couldn't have been more enthusiastic. And I'll get to him next. I'm trying to get through my, my order. I want to talk about nukes first. So Tucker is sounding like, different than he normally Sounds, he sounds like, I don't want to, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I've never heard him so accusatory toward Trump. I think he's feeling very angry about this war and very distrustful of this president and his next move. And of course, Trump is striking out at him too. But there are two things he, he focused in on. I'm gonna play you two soundbites. Yesterday on the show, we talked about Trump's Easter tweet. You know, the F U C K I N apostrophe straight on Easter. And my own theory was he was trying to call attention to it. When he's, when he talks like that, it'll get more attention. And he's having difficulty getting all the attention he wants on his true social posts these days. That one did it. I think the reference to Allah was like the, the day earlier he had said, glory be to God, something to that, that effect. So I don't know, maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Tucker had a different take. And here's that in Sat 9, who
- [47:47]
Tucker Carlson
do you think you are? You're tweeting out the F word on Easter morning. You'll be living in hell. Just watch Praise be to Allah. So obviously you're mocking the religion of Iran. Okay, if you seek a religious war, that's a good idea. But by the way, no decent person mocks other people's religions. You may have a problem with the theology. Presumably you do if it's not your religion and you can explain what that is. But to mock other people's faith is to mock the idea of faith itself. And we should never mock that. This is a mockery not just of Islam, it's a mockery of Christianity. To send out a tweet with the F word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying Praise be to Allah without explaining any of it. You are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christian.
- [48:49]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, that was point one. And then here was point two on whether Trump might be getting ready to use some weapon of mass destruction on Iran.
- [49:00]
Tucker Carlson
So unless somebody puts the brakes on right away, we're gonna wind up in a place that we can't even imagine. Not just Iran, us and the rest of the world. And so that means, cuz this is obvious to anyone who's paying any attention, that if you work in the White House or in the US military, now it's time to say no, absolutely not, and say it directly to the President. No. In case you're thinking about using some weapon of mass destruction against the population of Iran in whose name we liberated Iran. We killed their religious leader for their benefit. Do you remember that this was last month? Those people who are in direct contact with the president need to say, no, I'll resign. I'll do whatever I can do legally to stop this, because this is insane. And if given the order, I'm not carrying it out. Figure out the codes on the football yourself, because everything hangs in the ballast right now.
- [49:53]
Megyn Kelly
This is extraordinary. And by the way, I should point out that that was that second comment. All those comments happened before Trump's 8:06am tweet today. Truth Social, saying a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. That's where Tucker was before he heard that comment. I mean, he's actually talking about potentially depriving Trump of the nuclear football codes. And he sounds a little like, you know, some of those Democrats who were talking about how you have the obligation to disobey an illegal order if it's given. He sounds like he's worried Trump's about to give one of those as well, like to bomb civilian infrastructure or, God forbid, drop a nuke on an entire country. So your thoughts, Glenn?
- [50:41]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I think there's several points that are worth making about this. You know, I was a very vehement, outspoken, harsh critic of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. It's why I went into journalism, was to oppose the war on terror and similar policies. But the one thing I think everybody gives credit for to George W. Bush, at least I do. And I think a lot of people, even his opponents at the time did, was right after 9, 11. Within days, he purposely went and visited several mosques around the country, met with imams, emphasized that we are not in a religious war with Islam, only with this group of people who have distorted a great religion, even if it wasn't ethical. And that was not his motive. And I think part of it was just pragmatically, of course, you don't want to start a religious war with one of the largest and greatest religions on earth, which is Islam, because people will die for their religion. They'll die for their country, they'll die for their religion.
- [51:34]
Megyn Kelly
Especially.
- [51:34]
Glenn Greenwald
We have seen that throughout history. And if you make it a theocratic war, where now President Trump is mocking Allah and Islam, that is remarkably dangerous and ill advised on top of that. Yeah. And also we're supposed to be there to help these people who are Muslim. And yet at the same time, we're. We're mocking their religion. The other thing I want to say is, you know, I. I just want to pause for a second about Tucker. And this applies to you, too, as well, Megan. But I think in Tucker's case, it's so important to realize what he's done here. He had a very close relationship, personal relationship with Donald Trump. Trump admired him and considered him a friend. He was able to walk in and out of the White House, and he used that access not to monetize it or to make himself more influential or famous. He did it in every way possible to try and stop wars, including this war with Iran, going all the way back to last year. And he ended up sacrificing his access to the Trump White House to his personal relationship with the president, as did you as well. And I do think it's important for people to understand how valuable that relationship is, that to sacrifice it for a cause that you believe in is incredibly admirable and noble. And, I mean, I just can't praise Tucker enough for that. And as for this concern, how can you not have the concern? I mean, Tucker was the voice saying, we shouldn't be going into these wars. They're very dangerous. You're doing it for Israel. You're going to destroy your coalition. And then the kind of opposite pundit was Mark Levin, who has been loyal to Israel his whole life and totally maniacal. That's why he generates attention. Right, because he just screeches and screams and says has the most insane, unhinged things. And yet, as it turns out, Trump has made very clear. He's repudiating Tucker and heaping praise on Mark Levin and making clear that the person that everybody should listen to is Mark Levin. So Mark Levin is out there saying that Trump should use nuclear weapons against Iran, that he should be the new Churchill figure, that that's the only way to deal with it is like with Nazis. So if you're Tucker or any rational person, how do you dismiss that concern? Again, no one's saying Trump is going to use nuclear weapons at 8pm tonight. I don't think he will. The problem is, is that once you get even, if there's like a 1% chance that that might happen now or in the future or something equivalent, it's worth being extremely alarmed over because of the consequences. Like the worse the possible event is, the lower the threshold of probability there should be for you to really work against it. And I think that's what Tucker is doing.
- [54:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, unfortunately, those two are definitely on the outskirts. I'm pretty sure I'm on the outs with Trump, too. But he. Trump said, of course, a low IQ person that has absolutely no idea what's going on. He calls me all the time. I don't respond to his calls. I don't deal with him. I like dealing with smart people, not fools. Okay. I mean, this follows on the tweet that he sent out about both of us saying we're not maga, and now we're going to lose all of our viewers because Trump said we're not maga. I. I don't. That's not gonna happen. We're both doing just fine. I think my audience never thought I was maga. Like I said all along, I'm MAGA adjacent, but I'm not maga. I'm an independent, and I don't wear anybody's jersey, and that helps me do my job. But, yeah, Tucker tried, and he has a fundamental and, like, sincerely held conviction that we are doing the wrong thing on this war. I shared that with him. But he's become a chief, like, spokesperson against it. And so Trump is now, I guess, out to destroy Tucker, which is just ridiculous. And to elevate Levin, he wants everyone to watch Mark Levin show. It's not working. Mark Levin's show is very poorly rated. His podcast is poorly rated. I mean, literally, a podcast not even on the map. Like, no, you can't even find it if you want it. It's never toward the top of anything. No matter what the President does, he cannot get it up in the podcast ratings. Much like the host of the show. Sorry I went there. I don't know. I kind of set myself up for it. Okay, then there are the. The bloodthirsty. Not just Levin. Here's this. You probably know this guy a lot better than I do. This representative, Randy Fine, who is. He's a disgusting warmonger. This guy tweeted out yesterday. Happy power plant and bridge Eve. Sounds like some Allahu Akbar is coming their way behind you and our war fighters. 1,000%, Mr. President. This guy's a sick fucker. Sorry, I'm trying to clean up my language in the wake of Easter, but he's a sick dude. Glenn, what about this? Randy Fine. And then there's Lindsey Graham, too. Which. Do we have that on tape? The Lindsey Graham latest? Yeah, I think we do. It's Sat six.
- [56:26]
Glenn Greenwald
Listen, so I'm very optimistic that President Trump's going to bring this regime to an end one way or the other. I prefer diplomacy. But this time tomorrow night, they're either going to do a deal that makes sense for the world and the region and for Iran itself, or we're going to blow them up. How many times do you have to be told by Trump, I'm going to do something to you, and he actually does it before you. You believe it. So this is a defining moment in the history of the Mideast.
- [56:54]
Megyn Kelly
Just once again. So which is it? How many times do you have to. Does he have to prove to you he's going to do what he. What he threatens before you believe it? And then you have Mark Levin tweeting out the Selena Zito quit quote about take Trump seriously, but not literally. Which is it? The neocons need to get their stories straight. Glenn, back to you.
- [57:12]
Glenn Greenwald
Megan. These people are nothing short of psychotic. And for as long as I have been in contact with and observing and interacting with the MAGA movement, Lindsey Graham was supposedly the representation of everything sick and evil in the world that needed to be purged from the Republican Party and from American life. Because he obviously takes some kind of deep, twisted psychological joy in watching other people go and blow up human beings and their lives. He talks in those terms all the time. And yet Lindsey Graham has emerged as probably, not probably, definitely the most influential Republican senator when it comes to Trump's foreign policy. It's basically like a Lindsey Graham festival. Everything he's ever dreamed of, he's now getting. And he talks about that and says it explicitly. We're killing all these people. We're killing them the right way. As far as Randy Fine is concerned. He's like a caricature of what you're not supposed to talk about if you don't want to be accused of being anti Semitic. This is somebody who is openly. Had extreme loyalty to Israel. Not to the United States, but to Israel his whole life. When he was a Florida state legislature, he had the Israeli flag all over his office. Goes there all the time, talks about Israel constantly. And, you know, when I was on Tucker's show, this is like late 2023, early 2024, when I went to his studio in Maine, he raised Randy Fine because Randy Fine talked about how the Israelis in the United States and Americans should be nuking Gaza the way we did in World War II. And Tucker was genuinely shocked at how somebody calls for something like that. And he was saying things like, I love watching children and Gaza bleed more of this. Starve them to death. Tucker was saying, how can anybody so unhuman and just, like, indecent and evil and just a psychopath be welcomed in the Republican Party? And yet, of course, he's jovial and festive about what's happening, because this is a war against Israel's main adversary, with Donald Trump threatening to do what Israel has long wanted, which was basically blow Iran off the map, render them just a shattered society that is completely dysfunctional, that's ruled by segregated militias like Syria and Libya were after we were done with those countries. And Trump seems to be on the path of doing exactly that, even though everything Trump said before this was about how we should never do anything like this. So all the people who were never Trumpers, who were supporting DeSantis, who hated Trump for a long time, they're the ones who got everything they wanted. And the hardcore America first people, not the MAGA people, because as Trump says, that's a cult of personality. The America first people who provided the fuel and the backbone when it comes
- [59:47]
Megyn Kelly
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- [61:58]
Glenn Greenwald
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- [62:30]
Megyn Kelly
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Glenn Greenwald
Another pina colada?
- [62:37]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, please. Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet.
- [62:41]
Glenn Greenwald
Fantastic.
- [62:42]
Megyn Kelly
Hire 36% more help.
- [62:44]
Glenn Greenwald
You're hired and you're hired.
- [62:46]
Megyn Kelly
Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify today@shopify.com setup and get a $1 trial. Shopify.com setup hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halprin Link Lauren Maureen Callahan, Emily Drishinski, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the Sirius XM app. This just in. The President spoke to Fox News in a brief phone interview. He was asked how he's feeling about the talks. His answer was, I can't tell you because right now we're in heated negotiations. He said he was about to be fully briefed on the Pakistani Prime Minister's proposed two week ceasefire. I can say this, that I know him very well. He's a highly respected man all over, he tells Fox. So they're trying to set the table for a two week off ramp. And the big question is not how Trump feels about it, it's how the Iranians feel about it, frankly. It really is. They're the ones who haven't wanted to ceasefires. President Trump's been asking for one. He's been asking for a deal. He started it and he desperately wants to end it. But they get a say. The ones who got attacked also get a say. I got to end on this though, this New York Times article that we've been, that I've been teasing, written by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan and the title is how How Trump took the US to war with Iran. It's crazy. They, they write about. The black SUV carrying Netanyahu arrived at the White House just before 11am on February 11th. That was a Wednesday. Netanyahu headed downstairs for the main event, a highly classified presentation on Iran for President Trump and his team at the White House in the situation Room, which was rarely used for in person meetings with foreign leaders. But as I point out, these two sat in equal positions at the table. Mr. Trump did not sit at the head. Then began the briefing with the head of Mossad on the screen behind the Prime Minister beaming in. That's Israel's foreign intelligence agency as well as other Israeli military officials. And they write also in there were Susie Wiles, Marco Rubio, Pete Hegseth, Dan Cain Ratcliffe, head of the CIA, Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, who were the negotiators. Vance was in Azerbaijan. Netanyahu made a hard sell, quoting here, suggesting the Iran, that Iran was ripe for regime change and expressing the belief that a joint U. S. Israeli mission could finally bring an end, an end to the Islamic republic. Okay. At one point, the Israelis played for Trump a brief video that included a montage of potential new leaders who could take over the country if the hardline government fell. Among those featured was Reza Pahlavi. Glenn Reza Pahlavi, who no serious person thinks had any shot at any point of taking over as leadership in Iran. He's the exiled son of the shah who has fallen. He's lived his whole adult life here in America. He has no support over in Iran. He barely sends out like a supportive tweet when they have these street rebellions and protests. He's basically an American now Like, there's no support over there. Who the hell would believe that Reza Pahlavi is a credible potential takeover? I mean, it's truly like, you might as well go for Jeb Bartlett, who is just as much of a fictional character as Reza Pahlavi when it comes to who could take over. Netanyahu and his team outlined conditions they portrayed as pointing to near certain victory. Near certain Iran's ballistic missile program could be destroyed in a few weeks. The regime would be so weakened it could not choke off the Strait of Hormuz. And the likelihood that Iran would land blows against U.S. interests in neighboring countries was assessed as minimal. Pollyanna was beaming in on that screen behind Netanyahu, just throwing rosebuds at President Trump, surrounded by a unicorn and a rainbow. Okay, so this is great. We're going to get near certain victory. The ballistic missile programs destroyed in a few weeks. The regime so weak it will not be able to block traffic in the Strait of Hormuz. And there's no chance that Iran is going to be able to strike neighboring countries because they're going to be so weak. Literally, everything was wrong. Everything was. The only thing they told Trump that was right was, and I think this happened at. I'm not sure if it happened at this meeting or a one that came right before the strike, that the Ayatollah was going to be above ground and strikeable on that Saturday that we did it. They go on to say Mossad's intelligence indicated that street protests inside Iran would begin again. That's wrong. And with the impetus of the Israeli spy agency helping to foment riots and rebellion, an intense bombing campaign could foster the conditions for the Iranian opposition to overthrow the regime. The Israelis also raised the prospect of Iranian Kurdish fighters crossing the border from Iraq to open a grand a ground front in the northwest, further stretching the regime's forces. That also didn't happen. Mr. Trump listened and responded. Sounds good to me, he told the Prime Minister. Then we had our own meeting the next day, just Americans. And they looked at the four goals that Netanyahu said we could achieve. One was decapitation, killing the ayatollah. Two was crippling Iran's capacity to project power and threaten its neighbors. Three was a popular uprising inside Iran. And fourth was regime change with a secular leader installed. And our team told the President, 3 and 4 are impossible. There will not be a popular uprising and there will not be a secular leader taking over. But we can do decapitation and we can cripple Iran's capacity to Project power and threaten its neighbors. That was our team's assessment. The CIA director used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister's regime change scenarios. Farcical, he said. Mr. Rubio said, in other words, it's bullshit. When General Kaine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, was asked, what do you think the Times reports, he said, sir, this is, in my experience, standard operating procedure for the Israelis. They oversell and their plans are not always well developed. They know they need us and that's why they're hard selling. General Kaine saw no clear path to quickly replenishing the stockpiles of weapons, which was another major concern he raised in the meeting. That we would be that we were already having a depletion of stockpiles of American weaponry and that a major campaign against Iran would drastically deplete those stockpiles, including missile interceptors, which you mentioned earlier, Glenn, which we knew were on the wane, which cost between 3 and 12 million, depending on which one you have. The ones that intercept the thaad missiles are 12 million. The ones that intercept like Patriot missiles or other missiles are more like 3 million. But either way they're really expensive and we're going through them like Pez candies over there. He also, Dan Kaine did flag the enormous difficulty of securing the Strait of Hormuz and the risk of Iran blocking it. Mr. Trump had dismissed that possibility on the assumption that the regime would capitulate before it came to that. The president appeared to think it would be a very quick war, an impression that had been reinforced by the tepid response to the US Bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities in June. That's it. Hegseth was the biggest proponent in the war. Vance warned it could cause regional chaos. It would that a regime change war would be a disaster and that Mr. Trump's political coalition would see it as a betrayal. Those who had bought into the promise and actually believed Trump when he said no new wars. He also raised the munitions problem. It's like this is like a post mortem in a hospital. That's what it feels like to me, Glenn, you know, where somebody dies and then they have the morbidity and whatever meeting and they go through how did the patient die? Like what happened? What went wrong with the systems? And it's us looking at this president who I believed, totally believed would not start another Middle east war and saying what, what happened? And it's like some errant maniac was let into the or. His name is Benjamin Netanyahu. And our surgeon, the best in the World treated him as the authority figure. Instead of remembering, it was he who was the authority figure and the one who we placed in there and in charge for a reason. He came in and said, instead of taking the cancer out, let's put one in. Let's see how that works. Infest this body with the most pernicious cancer known to man. Let's start with pancreatic. Stick it in there and see if we can get it to spread. And others around, the doctor said, no, don't do that. That's certain death for the patient. But he was so dazzling, with the head of cancer research beaming in via satellite, telling our surgeon, don't worry, we figured out a way around it. You'll be known as the person who cured cancer, not who caused it. And then we did it. We stuck the needle in the man's pancreas, and the cancer spread like wildfire through the patient's body. And that is how he died. That's how this feels. A bunch of experts looking at the guy we trusted saying, who made him do this? And the answer is Benjamin Netanyahu. And the man in the mirror for President Trump, his own hubris that led him to believe he'd get a different result than all those other presidents that Dan Cain referenced. Glenn?
- [73:12]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, it's so well put, Megan. You know, I was somebody who was very focused on the Israeli influence and the Israeli cause of this war prior to its beginning or at the very beginning, because I thought it was very important that Americans understand this is not a war in America's interest. This is the war in Israeli interests. But at the end of the day, Netanyahu can come to the White House as many times as he wants. He can say to Trump whatever he wants. The Israelis knew these things were false. They know Iran as well as anybody. They know that it's extremely difficult to foster regime change there. That's why they haven't done it, and they needed the United States to do it, because they know it's not just. Just a matter of a few bombs and the people rise up. But at the end of the day, the choice is Donald Trump's. As Harry Truman said, the buck stops here. And what's so infuriating about this? This account? And of course, it's something that aligns with everything I'm sure you've heard and I've heard and has been reported. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on our intelligence agencies, the CIA, the NSA, all the 17 intelligence agencies under Tulsi Gabbard's Control and supervision. And you have this massive apparatus that's supposed to tell you what's true in the world and what's not, so that as president, you can make the most responsible and informed decisions that affect hundreds of billions, hundreds of millions, if not billions of lives. And here you have Trump surrounded by people who are telling him everything the Israelis are saying is false. Yes, we could decapitate Iran. You know why? Because The Ayatollah is 86 years old. And he said, I'm not leaving my house no matter what. It's not like we killed him in some secret underground bunker. We killed him in his home, which he refused to leave because he said, I'm going to ask Iranians to be sick to these bombs. I'm not going to go into some super secretive bunker. But even if that were some special accomplishment that we should celebrate, it achieves nothing. And Trump decided that he was going to ignore his intelligence agencies. Let's remember, before the bombing last year, Operation Midnight Hammer, Tulsi Gabbard went to the Senate and said, it's the consensus of the intelligence community, of our own American intelligence community, that the Iranian government has not opted to pursue a nuclear weapon. They're not developing one. Trump went and bombed it anyway. And when asked about what Tulsi said, he said, I don't care what she says. She doesn't know anything. I know they were. Because that's what he heard from the Israelis. So over and over, he's disregarding his own advisors.
- [75:31]
Megyn Kelly
The.
- [75:31]
Glenn Greenwald
The intelligence apparatus that we spend so much money for in order to basically side with. With Israel.
- [75:41]
Megyn Kelly
It's depressing. All we can pray is that it ends. It ends soon. I don't. I don't care about the terms. I really. I just don't. I don't care. I want it to be over. No more blood and treasure. No more distractions. And then Trump is gonna have some work to do rebuilding the trust and affection of people who are in the America first coalition. I mean, I'm getting to where MTG told me she was when she sat on this set a couple months ago, months before she left Congress, which was America only. Forget America First. America only until we clean up our own problems. We need to be our own exclusive focus. We have spent far too much time, money, and American lives now focused on places like the Middle East. But you could throw Ukraine in there, too. It's time to prioritize the concerns of Americans. The candidate who says and convinces us he actually will uphold those values as his mission or hers. Next time around is the one who I think I and many others will back. Glenn, a pleasure. Thank you so much for being such a voice of reason and courage on all of this yourself. You've been such an important person to follow on X and on your show because as always, you're not afraid to say what's real. And this is something you've been studying for a long time. Great to see you my friend.
- [77:05]
Glenn Greenwald
Thank you, Megan. Always great to be with you.
- [77:08]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. And we are going to be back tomorrow. We will bring you all the latest on what happens tonight then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda and no fear. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.