Trump's Miraculous and Historic Hostage Deal, with Batya Ungar-Sargon, and Cheryl Hines on Smears of RFK Jr. | Ep. 1170

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Megyn Kelly Show – "Trump's Miraculous and Historic Hostage Deal, with Batya Ungar-Sargon, and Cheryl Hines on Smears of RFK Jr." (Ep. 1170)
Date: October 13, 2025

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Overview

This episode focuses primarily on two major topics:

1. Analysis and Celebration of Trump's Hostage Deal:
   Megyn Kelly and guest Batya Ungar-Sargon (host, NewsNation) discuss at length President Donald Trump’s negotiation resulting in the release of 20 Israeli hostages after two years’ captivity by Hamas. The conversation dives into the emotional impact, geopolitical context, Trump's negotiation style, and media and political reactions.

2. Cheryl Hines on Public Scrutiny and Life with RFK Jr.:
   Actress and author Cheryl Hines joins Megyn to discuss her Hollywood career, the unique challenges of being married to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (current HHS Secretary and former independent presidential candidate), and the smears and slanders faced by political spouses. She also provides a behind-the-scenes look at her career and new memoir, "Unscripted."

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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I. Trump’s Historic Hostage Deal and Its Aftermath

A. The Releases: Personal Stories and Emotional Scenes

• Vivid Narration of Hostage Returns:
  • Megyn shares stories of newly released Israeli hostages: Matan Zengauer, Aviatar David, Avinatan Orr (from the infamous October 7th Nova Festival abductions), and Segev Kalphin.
  • Emotional reunions are described in detail, emphasizing trauma and relief:

    “They're holding on to their sons exactly the way you would…if you hadn't seen him in two years and he were in the hands of terrorists…” (Megyn, 03:02)

B. Trump’s Leadership and Negotiation Style

• Trump as Relentless Leader:

  • Megyn and Batya frame Trump’s role in the deal as singular and irreplaceable.
  • Trump is portrayed as undaunted by legal trouble, threats, and obstacles.

  • “There's something in his head that just doesn't let him take no for an answer. He's a miracle worker.” (Megyn, 10:58)

• Speech to Knesset:

  • Trump calls for peace:

    “…after so many years of unceasing war and endless danger, today the skies are calm…the sun rises on a holy land that is finally at peace.” (Trump, 11:24)

C. The “Trumpian” Model of Diplomacy

• Interest-Based Deal Making:

  • Batya notes that Trump prioritized interests and investments over abstract values and aligns U.S. interests with those of Gulf states.
  • He leveraged the U.S. economy to intertwine interests, rather than approach with “shared values” or traditional diplomatic hierarchies.

  • “He believes in shared interests…From the beginning…he made that big trip to UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. I don't think he went…thinking ‘I'm gonna bring peace to the Middle East.’ He went to bring $10 trillion of investment back…” (Batya, 18:13)

  • Trump strengthened Israel, weakened Hamas, and gave Arab states reasons to pressure Hamas for a deal.

• Political Bravery and Instinct:

  • Trump’s unpredictable, “crazy” persona is cast as strength in negotiations.

  • “All the crazy shit he does…has led everyone, including Hamas, to realize that motherfucker is going to do whatever he wants. He cannot be shamed out of this…” (Megyn, 28:50)

  • Batya’s subway metaphor: Trump is “the crazier dude,” so even global strongmen step back. (29:47)

D. Responses and Political Fallout

• Media and Political Reactions:
  • U.S. media and Democratic leadership minimize the achievement, crediting Biden’s prior framework.

  • “The closest we've had is these mealy mouth Dems…who are like, he finished what we started…he just put the cherry on top.” (Megyn, 21:15)

  • “Implementation is the whole thing. Trump went in there and got Hamas to give up all of its leverage…what a miracle that is!” (Batya, 23:11)

• International and Bipartisan Relief:
  • Trump’s deal achieves praise from both Israeli and (strikingly) some Palestinian constituencies. The media, however, is reluctant to celebrate.

  • “Normally you only have one side cheering…But we have both sides cheering here.” (Megyn, 45:28)

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II. Media Criticism and Ideological Divide

• Sharp Critique of Legacy Media:
  • Christiane Amanpour (CNN) is singled out for minimizing the plight of hostages, suggesting they were “treated better than the average Gazan.”

  • “Absolute scum of the earth…They were starved, they were tortured, the women were sexually assaulted routinely. They were all beaten…Just disgusting…our legacy media is…the stenographers of terrorists.” (Batya, 43:19)

  • The “woke” mindset is described as viewing everything only through a lens of oppressed vs. oppressor, distorting sympathy (46:59).

  • “It's not based on your actions…but just on your race…every Israeli, which are coded as white…is powerful and thus evil…and every Palestinian…powerless and therefore inherently virtuous…” (Batya, 46:59)

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III. Cheryl Hines: Hollywood, Politics, and Public Backlash

A. Life in the Spotlight & Adapting to Political Attacks

• Transition from Acting to National Politics:

  • Cheryl discusses the difference between ordinary Hollywood fame (criticism of looks, roles, etc.) and vitriol when her husband entered politics.

  • “I was kind of taking it all on…then now…I realize, oh, it's part of the ecosystem…this is what people do.” (Cheryl, 58:10)

• Navigating Marriage to a Politician:

  • Cheryl never expected Bobby Kennedy Jr. to go into politics, thought he’d “achieve more as an environmental attorney.” (59:24)
  • She found herself suddenly at the center of vaccine debates and public attacks as RFK Jr. became an anti-establishment figure.
  • On widespread smears:

    “At first, you know, I was kind of taking it all on. Now I’m like you. I realize, oh, it’s part of the ecosystem.” (Cheryl, 58:10)

B. Smears and Social Media

• Notable Moment – Bradley Whitford’s Tweet:

  • Cheryl reads aloud a tweet from actor Bradley Whitford attacking her for “staying silent” while Bobby supports Trump:

    “Hey, Cheryl Hines, way to stay silent while your lunatic husband throws his support behind the adjudicated rapist…” (95:24)

  • Cheryl’s reaction:

    “Do you ever want to be like, yo, Bradley, go fuck yourself? (Megyn, 95:51) – ‘Yes, I've had those thoughts.’” (Cheryl, 95:51)

  • On the expectation for political spouses:

    “I was sort of confused because I didn't understand what he was hoping for…like you're supposed to walk out in a huff…It's over, Bobby.” (Cheryl, 97:04)

• Standing with RFK Jr.:

  • Cheryl stayed with Kennedy through controversy, despite advice and expectation she would leave him for political expedience.

  • “I think it’s good to stand by your husband…when they’re doing something that’s important.” (Cheryl, 98:11)

C. Hollywood Life and Career

• Improv and Curb Enthusiasm:

  • Cheryl talks about her memoir “Unscripted,” improv background, and 24-year run on "Curb Your Enthusiasm."
  • On her audition with Larry David:

    “He can't let you enjoy one thing…he's like, yeah, this is the best news. He's like, don't say that…There have to be other things that have happened that are better than this.” (Cheryl, 74:33)

• Family, Upbringing, and Staying Grounded:

  • Grew up in Florida with a strong, close, but not wealthy family. Moved to LA at age 25 with little but her dreams.

  • “I never felt like, oh, if we only had money, my life would be so much better…when I moved to LA, I just…had nothing to lose.” (Cheryl, 66:08)

  • Her career path and worldview are painted as unusually grounded for Hollywood.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Trump’s Negotiating Power:

• Megyn (10:58):
  “There's something in his head that just doesn't let him take no for an answer. He's a miracle worker. That's what it feels like.”

On the Media Downplaying the Hostage Suffering:

• Batya (43:19): "Absolute scum of the earth. And I don't say words like that often. They were starved, they were tortured, the women were sexually assaulted routinely...Our legacy media is...the stenographers of terrorists."

On the Concept of Shared Interests:

• Batya (18:13):
  "Donald Trump has zero interest in shared values. He's interested in sharing value...He believes in shared interests..."

On Political Spouses Being Targeted:

• Cheryl (95:51): “Do you ever want to be like, yo, Bradley, go fuck yourself?...Yes, I've had those thoughts.”

On Trump’s Unique Presence in World Politics (Subway Anecdote):

• Batya (29:47):
  “Trump is the crazier dude. So they are going to say, sit there and behave, because he just has the bigger cojones.”

On Facing Political Heat:

• Cheryl (102:36): “If he’s actually getting really good work done…we’ll take the heat, we’ll take the digs, we’ll take the headlines, whatever.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Hostage Release Narratives & Emotional Impact: 00:35–11:24
• Trump’s Speech to Israel’s Knesset: 11:24–12:33
• Deep-Dive on Trump’s Deal-Making with Batya Ungar-Sargon: 14:11–34:53
• Media & Political Reaction Analysis: 39:15–46:59
• Root Causes of Media Ideology (Wokeism, Israel/Palestine): 46:59–51:03
• Cheryl Hines Interview Begins: 55:39
  • Curb Your Enthusiasm & Improv Origins: 60:28–74:46
  • Cheryl on Political Attacks, RFK Jr.’s Career, and Social Media: 88:09–98:47
  • Politics and Personal Fulfillment: 101:12–104:27

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Tone and Takeaways

• The episode is relentlessly enthusiastic about Trump’s accomplishment, attributing it to unique personal traits that make him an "irreplaceable" political figure.
• Media outlets critical of Israel or downplaying the trauma of hostages receive harsh criticism.
• Cheryl Hines’s interview is candid, warm, self-deprecating, and offers a valuable perspective on being close to a politically polarizing figure.
• The tone is conversational, often irreverent, with humor and biting political commentary fully on display.

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This summary captures the depth, style, and major content of the episode, emphasizing the emotional, political, and personal themes as discussed by Megyn Kelly and her guests.

Transcript

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Download Today welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon. East One of the most consequential moments in history unfolding this morning in the Middle East. The long nightmare for the families of the Israeli hostages is over. All 20 of the survivors released hours ago into the arms of their loved ones. And I cannot get enough of the videos. They're incredible. All right, we're going to go through a few of them. Among those released, 25 year old Matan Zengauer. He was kidnapped from his home on October 7th. His final text to his mother that day was, mum, I love you, someone is here. Last week when his mother found out he would be released, she said the moment she was looking forward to the most was when her son's eyes could sink into her own. Today she got that moment. Watch K. It's amazing. In each one of these, they're holding on to them like they might never see them again. I mean, they're holding on to their sons exactly the way that you would hold on to your son. I mean, exactly the way you would hold on to your son if you hadn't seen him in two years and he were in the hands of a terrorist group in some cave. It's. You can feel the, the relief and the joy and the gratitude. The gratitude, it's like oozing out of the screen and it's just one of the reasons why it's so emotional. Watch to watch these. Also among the released 24 year old EV, let's say Aviatar. Aviatar. I'm sorry, I'm. They're tough names, but I'm trying. Aviatar. David Aviatar was kidnapped from the Nova Festival in southern Israel. This is a photo of him before he was taken hostage. In August, Hamas released video of him showing him looking emaciated. This is him. This is A Viatar right here, look. It's terrible for the listening audience. He looks like a holocaust victim. So skinny, skin and bones. In an underground tunnel showing him just looking awful and his face looks forlorn and digging in a cramped underground tunnel. When his family was shown the video, his father said he did not even recognize that this was his son and this was a Viatar. Today he blew kisses to the crowd of onlookers as he arrived to a hospital in Israel. He still looks thin, but he was smiling and he was waving and his life has been saved. Wow. Another hostage released was shown in one of the most widely shared videos of the October 7 attack. Avinatan Orr was at the Supernova Music Festival with his girlfriend, Noah Argamanid, when Hamas terrorists attacked the music festival. They spent hours hiding in a ditch, but they were discovered by the terrorists and Noah was seen being driven off toward Gaza on a motorbike. Everyone has seen this video. Here it is. She's reaching for him. She looks terrified. She's got the long, dark, curly hair you can see, just nothing but stressed on her distress, on her face as she reaches for him. She cries, don't kill me. While reaching for Avenaton. They were both taken. The reports were that he actually had had a chance to escape prior to this, but wouldn't go because he wasn't going to leave her. Not exactly sure how it went down, but he apparently had the chance to spare his own life and leave her behind and he wouldn't. Eventually they were both taken, but Noah was freed after an Israeli military operation earlier in these past two years, his mother once said about finding out that he was a hostage, Quote, it's like lightning striking but from all directions at once. Then all the light inside of you disappears and the darkness means no thoughts, no emotions, no air, just nothing. Today he's free. In the first images of his release, he is shown pumping his fist. And then later he was reunited with Noah. Oh, my gosh, they're hugging. They fall on. On this bed that's in the back. They're holding on so tightly, they won't let go. He's kissing her. She's. There's not an inch between them. She seems. He's. Now he's giving her a real kiss, touching her face. Hopefully they can get past this nightmare and. And we'll have a long and happy life together with lots of kids. We're all praying for them. One of the most emotional scenes today came from the family of Segev Kalphin. He too was Taken from the Nova Music Festival. He called his family that day as he was trying to run from the terrorists. They never heard from him again and only found out in February of this year that he was still alive. When Sev was reunited with his family Today, you'll see it. At first, he tries to keep it together, but then he wails with emotion at the first sight of his loved ones. His dad is kissing his head. He's got his elbows on his knees. He's overwhelmed. It's so. It's like, so emotional to watch, isn't it? My God, the raw emotion. I'm sure both he and his family thought he was going to die for the entirety of those two years. Why would you put any faith whatsoever in Hamas? So many of them did die. One of the things we're still waiting on today is the release of the deceased bodies. Hamas has not complied with the obligation to release them immediately contemporaneously with the live hostages. And so far as we came to air, only four of the deceased bodies had been released. That'll be a fight we'll see play out in the coming days as they try to retrieve them from under rubble. And also, we are told, in some cases, they're not sure where the remains are. So, thank God Sigev is okay. It easily could have gone another way. Gosh, those screams are so powerful. You could hear him screaming, and his wailing is a better word, and his dad wailing. And you just think of, like, a father's love for his son and what any father would give to have been the one taken instead of the son, you know, to trade places with his boy so his boy didn't have to go through what Segev did. And then to have them back, you know, it's like, if you've ever lost someone, one of the five stages of grief is bargaining. And you bargain that you'll be given that moment, that, like, something will be wrong with the news you were given, and that you. You'll get the moment of finding out he's not dead and you can hold him, you can wail like that with relief that you were wrong and he's been brought back into your life. Every time I see one of these, this isn't some big promo for Trump, but I do think of Trump like, what is it in that crazy mind of Trump's that just let him never give up? What is it about, like, sort of the madness that drives our President, in the best sense, that makes him say, no, I can get it done. I can do it. No, I'll. I'll keep going through the indictments. I don't care that my freedom's in jeopardy. No, I know I was just shot in the head, but I'm gonna stand up and say, fight, fight, fight, when we don't know whether the shooter's dead. No, I don't care that they impeach me twice. I'm gonna run again. They're trying to keep me off ballots. They're trying to attack my family. No, I'm. I'm going to win. I'm gonna run and I'm gonna win. No, I don't care that you tell me this court or that, that I can't send troops there because people are dying, and I want to make sure ICE officers are protected. And. And I don't care. Like, I'm going to find a way to do it, because I know it's what's right. I. I know this is what's right. I. I know that this war needs to wrap up. Those were President Trump's terms. That's what he said. Time to wrap it up. But there has to be a way of getting the. There has to be a way of getting the hostages out. What? We have to apply pressure. That's my business. Let. What are the pressure points? Go. Go to Qatar, go to Egypt, go to Turkey, Twist the financial concerns up, give them what they want and make it worth their while so that they can lean on. On the Palestinians in a way that the United States cannot because we lack the leverage points. There's something in his head that just doesn't let him take no for an answer. He's a miracle worker. That's what it feels like. We're seeing Segev walking out and holding his dad like that is a miracle. After that picture of him in the tunnel. And as these hostages have been coming out one by one today, President Trump this morning, he's been going all night. You know, he flew to Israel. It was like 2:40 US time. There's seven hours ahead. So, you know, add seven. I screwed that up on the AM update, by the way. I had the reverse apologies for that. But he was over there to 2:40 landing, meeting with Israeli families, addressing the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament, then I think right now is already off to Egypt, like, one place. It's just what he's doing over there is superhuman. The man's 79 years old. Most of us complain if, like, we have a full day of work, plus home responsibilities, plus, like, a social engagement in the evening. A lot of us. Maybe not most. I do. It's incredible. So he addressed Israelis, the Israeli parliament this morning, talking about what's been achieved and his new hope for the region.

[D]

After two harrowing years in darkness and captivity, 20 courageous hostages are returning to the glorious embrace of their families. And it is glorious. 28 more precious loved ones are coming home at last to rest in this sacred soil for all of time. And after so many years of unceasing war and endless danger, today the skies are calm, the guns are silent, the sirens are still, and the sun rises on a holy land that is finally at peace. A land and a region that will live, God willing, in peace for all eternity. I love Israel. I'm with you all the way. You will be bigger, better, stronger, and more loving than ever before. Thank you very much. God bless you. God bless the United States of America and God bless the Middle East. Thank you, everybody. Good luck. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[A]

Standing ovation. Chanting Trump. Joining me now, Bhatia Angkar Sargan. She's the host of Batya on News Nation and author of the book Second Class. Let's talk health, because in a world pushing products loaded with dyes, chemicals and toxins, you deserve better. Let me tell you about Beekeepers Naturals. Their Propolis throat spray is a daily go to for immune support. Packed with antioxidants, it can keep you fortified against seasonal bugs. Spritz it every morning and it is a game changer. No groggy side effects, just natural defense when your throat feels scratchy, especially during cold season or holiday travel. Try their Propolis Throat Soother. It delivers instant cooling relief, soothing irritation fast without any toxic junk. Plus, they have Propolis nasal spray, too, to cleanse and soothe nasal passages while killing germs. Well, Beekeepers Naturals is giving you an exclusive offer right now. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com Megan or enter code Megan at checkout to get 20% off your order. That's B E E Keepers, K E E P e r s naturals.com megan or enter code megan at checkout. Beekeepers Naturals products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Amazon CVS and Walgreens. Bhatia. What a day. It's overwhelming, isn't it?

[E]

Utterly, utterly overwhelming. That was such a beautiful opening, Megan. And you're so right. We just witnessed a miracle. Trump just performed an actual miracle before our eyes. I never believed these men would see the light of day again and what he had to go through to get them out. He's the only person who could have done it. And even he. I didn't keep the faith. And I just have to say, Megan, I hope I can get through this. This is a huge, huge win for the United States, just like it is for Israel. Every American who voted for Donald Trump, but especially people like you, Megan, who played a role in getting him elected, who stood by him, who told the truth, who told the American people what he was going to do for us, you own this. There are 20 lives that are going to be alive because of you, Megan. In Judaism, we say if you save a life, it's like saving the whole world. And, Megan, you saved 20 worlds. You get a share of this, and you get to know this for the rest of your life, that you played a role in rescuing these 20 precious, innocent souls and everything that comes from the Middle East. Now, I do believe there will be peace. Every person who helped Trump get to this place, it's yours also. It is your victory. Of course it's ours as Americans, because he's our guy. And it's just the most incredible, incredible day. I mean, glory to God. As you tweeted, and to President Trump. I did not think that I would live to see something like this. It is a world historic moment. We just witnessed Jewish history being made, and you now get a piece of that, Megan. So thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[A]

You are so sweet, Batya. I wish I had something to do with it, but I am. I, I do believe we wouldn't be here if Kamala Harris had won. I. I accept that piece of it. I just. He. I agree with you. He's the only person who could have gotten this done because of that beautiful madness. You know, I. I don't know what it is that makes Trump the way he is. Just like a dog with a bone, you know, you can't stop. Like, when he wants something, he's going to have it. And if you can align the United States interests, or in this case, the world's, with Trump's crazy desire to just make what he wants happen, miracles can happen. We're watching it time and time again. There's no question those 20 people are alive today because Donald Trump just did not have the ability to give up. It's not in him. And so he. He backed Israel, I mean, very forcefully from the beginning. But he also applied, applied pressure on Netanyahu, who is this dear friend and who's back. He's absolutely had, but was willing to pressure him when pressure was required and then understood the Middle east and had it already. Been over there in Trump 1.0 with Jared Kushner, with the Abraham Accords, treating them as equals with whom we could deal and, you know, listen to and address their concerns and maybe do business economically and, like, not just treat as, like, these weird otherized people who, like, we would never deign to interact with. That foundation was laid, and he has been exploiting it in Trump 2.0 to say, you need buy in. We need buy in from you. How can I make this worth your while such that you get involved in a way that the Palestinian people will listen to you. They've listened to Qatar a lot more than they're going to listen to Donald Trump. And it worked. He sent two real estate guys over there and they negotiated a deal. It happened.

[E]

It's so unbelievably incredible. He threw out this sort of post World War II World Order to where there was this sort of fiction that we have shared values with people who are utterly different from us. And either the Obama model, where, you know, they actually want democracy, or the Bush model, where, well, we'll just foist it on them, right? You don't get anywhere with that because they don't share our values. Donald Trump has zero interest in shared values. He's interested in sharing value, right? Like, he doesn't want to give them democracy, he wants them to give us money. He believes in shared interests, and you're completely right. From the beginning of this second administration, he made that big trip to the uae, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. And I don't think he went on that trip thinking, I'm gonna bring peace to the Middle East. He went on the trip to bring $10 trillion of investment back to the United States. But here's the key for Trump is that because he doesn't believe in this nonsense about shared values, because he wants to put America first, and he thinks that will be good for the entire world. His foreign policy and his economic policy are two sides of the same coin. So he went there for economic reasons. He went there because he had sort of used tariffs in order to get leverage. And he wanted to see what could I make with that leverage. Got all of this investment back. And because he had intertwined our economy with the economies of these moderate Gulf Arab states, they believed him when he came in for a foreign policy, diplomatic mission, that he had their best interests at heart because their economy is now intertwined with us. Of course he wants them to do well. So on the one hand, he's the most pro Israel president we've ever had. He's very proud of that. He brags about it all the time. And you would have thought in the old world model that you have to sort of keep Israel at arm's length. If you wanna do something with the Arabs, you have to equalize. No. Trump said, that's ridiculous. Everybody knows I'm pro Israel, I love Israel, I've got their back. That doesn't mean I can't also align the interests of this other side. Because he's thinking about interests as interests. Right. Literally as investment. And so this is, I think, the key to his deal making. You know, number one, ignore the experts. Number two, align the interests. You can always find a way to end a kind of stalemate by rethinking what the interests are. And number three, what you said, Megan, play the long game. Take the win. As he told Netanyahu, take the win. He refused to let him back out of this. It's just so genius. And he's the only person who could have done it.

[A]

It sounded like spouses arguing. And he's like, you're so fucking negative. Just take the win.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, it was very funny to me how he's like, trust me. And Netanyahu was smart to trust Trump. It's like Trump's got a long history of winning and he's very, very savvy politically. And Netanyahu, you know, it's like if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you're gonna get the same result over and over again. And Trump actually does have a history of deal making the impossible deal. And he listened. He did treat it like a win. And look, no one's saying, okay, it's guaranteed peace forevermore, but this is the biggest breakthrough we've had in, in modern history. I haven't heard anybody saying, oh, but this other one beats it. This other one is more promising. The closest we've had is these mealy mouth Dems like Antony Blinken and this other person, former Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh, who are like, you know, he finished what we started. This is really our process that we got going. And he just kind of put the cherry on top. As I said to Doug this morning, they're like, we loosened it, we loosened it. The jar. He just did the last little turn. Here's this person sing on camera. So sat 32. I know the Biden administration on its way out tried to get to a deal. It did not. What do you think is the difference here in this moment that put the Trump team ahead. Yeah. The framework that has been put into place in this 20 point plan that the Trump administration has implemented, builds on the framework of the Biden administration. And of course, there are a few differences in the plan, but it was always a phase. Phase one, two and three approach. Great. How. How come you didn't do it then? Truly, if it was all your idea, like Anthony. Anthony Blinken tweeted like it was. They're just picking up where we left off. This is really our deal. Why didn't, why don't you get it done? Seriously, if you had the idea, you had the vision, you had the ability, why didn't you do it? I mean, this is so petty.

[E]

It's so ridiculous. It's like saying, because they said the words two state solution, therefore a person who actually got the two state solution implemented ow them credit, it's ridiculous. The implementation is the whole thing. Trump went in there and got Hamas to give up all of its leverage. Like, do you understand what a miracle that is? They have nothing. Now they're back to killing other Palestinians because they can't kill any Jews.

[A]

Just today.

[E]

So amazing, unbelievable. Literally got them to give up their leverage. And again, it comes back to the real estate deal maker in him. So in the Obama Blinken model, the way that you get a deal is you have the weaker party down here and the stronger party up here. So you gotta build up the weaker party and weaken the stronger party. And then, as equals, this fiction of their equality, they'll meet there and make a deal. And Trump says, that's nonsense. If you make the weaker party stronger, they'll never concede to anything because you're building them up and holding them up. If you bring down the stronger party, why should they agree to anything? You just weaken their hand. Trump, who's a real estate guy, says, no, here's how you get to a deal. You weaken the weaker guy and you strengthen the stronger guy. Then everyone has an incentive to come to the table because the strong guy doesn't feel threatened. And the weak guy's like, my God, I have no leverage, I better make a deal. That is what we just saw. That was phase one. He wasn't doing Hamas any favors. He stole their only leverage out from under them. And he did it by going to Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and finding out what each of them wanted because they each wanted something. And again, throw out the experts who said, these people, they're Muslims, they just want the end of the Jewish state. Bullshit. They have legitimate interests. They want things more than they want to kill Jews. And Trump figured that out. And he figured out how to make them see that he had figured it out. And what's so amazing is in the speech to the Knesset, he's still closing with Bibi, so he's kind of negging him. But then he does the one thing he knows Bibi really wants, which is he tells the Knesset, why don't you guys give him a pardon?

[A]

Pardon.

[E]

Champagne. It was amazing. And now he goes to the Arabs and he's sitting in Egypt. And what does he say to them? He keeps talking about how rich they are. Because, of course, that's what they want to hear, right? He just knows exactly what he is doing. And to just watch him be able to perform at this level, bringing the expertise of a life in real estate to solve one problem after another. And then the last point I'll make is just, these previous wars, these failed attempts to bring democracy to the Middle east, it's not just that they failed. It's that they cost us trillions and trillions of dollars and the lives of precious, precious soldiers. And what Trump has done is the exact opposite. Not only are we not paying for this, it's making us rich. $10 trillion of investment in our economy, in our working class, in our manufacturing base was table stakes for the Arabs to come and deal with him, to. So it's the exact opposite of the Democrats approach to foreign policy. It's bringing home the bacon while bringing peace. It's just total, total genius.

[A]

Yeah. I will say the one group that really does just want to kill Jews is Hamas. I mean, that he. He read that correctly, too. The entire Middle east may not be as dedicated to that mission, but that group is. And he understood that he needed to get these other Arab states to. To force them to say, we're not gonna have your back. It's gonna be very painful for you unless you give up the hostages and end this thing. So their protectors basically told them, it's over. And Trump made those protectors do it while looking at Bibi, saying, yes, you need to take this deal. But also, if they don't take this deal, do your thing. End them. And he said openly to Hamas, they're gonna obliterate you, and I will not stand in the way. So this is your last chance. He has their allies saying, you're effed. Unless you take this, we're out of here. It's more important to us to do business with the United States. And you had Trump looking directly at them saying, this. See this, this crazed, you know, bulldog next to me who really would love to wipe every last one of you out. I'm going to let him off his leash. I'm the only thing holding his leash. And I will look forward to him killing you and ending you if you don't come to reason. That's why it ended. So. And it's, you know, we talked about some of the things that led Trump to think it could be done and, and actually get it done. But I would say too, the other, the other reason he was the only one who could do it. And it's like, it's destiny. It's almost just. It's destiny. Like, it. It had to be him. And it had to be him right now. Is he crazy? Like, in a great way, you know, but Trump crazy. He's a little crazy. He's like, all the crazy shit he does where it's like, from, you know, Solomani to like, threatening judges that he might. He might not follow their rulings. He has followed them, but, like, openly threatening them. And just like, he's indicting Letitia James, which is good. I think she might have done something really bad. So I'm in favor of it. But I'm just saying, like, these are all stuff every. The, like the mainstream people, the respectable people said, don't, don't do any of that. Stop all of that. Don't. Why are we getting a new White House ballroom? Why are you taking a plane from guitar?

[B]

Why.

[A]

Why did you guild the White House? Why? Why? And it's all part of the same crazy ass awesome package. It's all that's so destabilizing for the people who watch him. They're like, holy. There's no knowing what he might do. Like, he. He posed for the mug shot and then put his mug shot on T shirts and mugs and, like, sold them. He did, like, crypto with his. Like, all the crazy ass shit he's done has led everyone, including Hamas, to realize that motherfucker is going to do whatever he wants. He cannot be shamed out of this course of action. There's no conglomerate that can pull him back by the bit. He is a singular historic figure. And for better or for worse, and in Hamas's case, I think they concluded for worse, we're stuck with him.

[E]

I think I told you this story once, but I had a subway experience that I think perfectly encapsulates what you're describing, which is I got on the subway and there was a slightly crazy person sitting opposite me, you know, nothing too menacing, talking to himself, you know, twitching. Yeah, Exactly. We pull into the stage and the doors open and a person who's, like, really crazy gets on. And this is one of these people who's, like, shouting and gesticulating and, you know, everybody's like, oh, God, is there going to be an incident? Please don't look at me. You know? And Megan, that slightly crazy person sat up straight, stop talking to himself, and immediately started behaving because he didn't want to attract any attention to himself. It was like a game recognized game situation. And I always think about that when I see Trump sitting next to somebody like Erdogan, you know, or Sisi or Putin, you know, Trump is the crazier dude. So they are going to say, sit there and behave, because he just has the bigger cojones and they just don't know what he's gonna do because he answers to nobody but the American people.

[A]

It's true. This is like. This is one of his most and least attractive features. It's like such a crazy combination in one man. We'll never have anybody like him. We really should be thanking God every day that we have this president and he's our leader. We're so lucky. We're so lucky. He's willing to serve. He's rich beyond measure. He does not need this job. He. He could be off with the beautiful Melania, enjoying his Scottish golf course, whatever he wants. He wasn't done. And honest. Like today. Peter Doocy raised the question of heaven again with Trump. This is a very interesting ongoing thread with Trump. He's got real doubts he's going to get in. He clearly believes in heaven. He was raised Christian and going to church on the Upper west side and with Norman Vincent Peale as his pastor. Power of positive thinking. And he asked him again today. You would think today of all days, Bhatia, you know, you. You had me convinced I'm getting in because of what you said, even though I really had nothing to do with this. But I was. I was liking, yeah, maybe this. I could use this when I get to the pearly gates. And he brings up all the mean things I said about people. And Trump, too, even on a day like this, clearly has doubts, which almost suggests a touch of humility. What's going on? The pigs, they're flying. Watch this.

[C]

You had talked a couple weeks ago.

[A]

You were doing an interview and you talked about how you hope to end.

[C]

The war in Ukraine because it might help you get into heaven.

[A]

How does. How does this help? Does this help?

[D]

I mean, you know, I'm being a Little cute. I don't think there's anything going to get me in heaven. Okay. I really don't. I think. I think I'm not maybe heaven bound. I may be in heaven right now as we fly an Air Force One. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make heaven, but I've made life a lot better for a lot of people.

[A]

Really incredible. He wouldn't say that if he weren't actually thinking about it. You know, Trump, he really doesn't lie like he lies the way politicians lie. But this isn't a lie. You can tell that he's genuinely been thinking about it, as everyone does. They get later in, in the years. And I do wonder, Baja, is that what we're seeing there? Like, humility? What's. What is that? What's happening?

[E]

I have been seeing on his face the same look. And I wonder if you agree with me, as on the first night of the rnc, which was the first time we had seen him since the Butler assassination attempt, that same sort of almost beatific like that. He understands that this is now. It's just, it's notched up to the next level. He's leveled up that same kind of humility vis a vis the greatness of what is transpiring around him and because of him. And then, of course, just like when he finally gave his speech at the RNC and he opened, opened his mouth and it was Trump again, right. Same thing in the Knesset. So he had this look on his face of almost awe at what was happening around him. And then he became Trump immediately. And it was like a relief. Okay, he's still him. I've been thinking a lot about something Ben Shapiro said after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, which is, Charlie wasn't just a great man. He was a good man. And sometimes I think you don't actually have to be a good man to be a great man. Although I do think Trump is a good man. And the people who know him closest talk about a very giving person. You know, that thing of, like, the greatness is not always something that a person might themselves interpret as, you know, the kind of banal, mundane, everyday little kindnesses that one typically thinks in a religious context are the kinds of things that would get you into heaven. But I hope he doesn't really believe that he's. He's not headed there because obviously, you know, he's gone.

[A]

He's for sure he's gone. If Trump doesn't get into heaven, there's no hope for the rest of us. Because listen, if it's a balancing test at all, if it's like, if the test is, have you done anything bad? We're all screwed. If the test, if it's a balancing test, he's, he's got it. I can tell you. Trump is a lawyer. You're good. I've done the weighing of the evidence. It's beyond a reasonable doubt that you're getting in. So you should celebrate personally, too. All right, stand by. I gotta take a break. Really enjoying this day. This is a wonderful, wonderful day, and we should celebrate. God bless the United States of America. God bless Trump. God bless the Middle east, just as he put it. And that's not an accidental turn of phrase. Other presidents used to just say Israel. And President Trump intentionally widened it to say, we're looking at all of you. We're here for all of you. There's goodness to be had for all of us. More with Batya coming up right after this. Speaking of goodness, Grand Canyon University, an affordable private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, is one of the largest universities in the country. Praised for its culture of community and impact, GCU integrates the free market system, a welcoming Christian worldview, and free and open discourse into more than 360 academic programs, including more than 300 online. Join a nationwide community of learners redefining what online education looks like through academically rigorous, industry driven programs that can spark bold ideas and prepare you for a future that matters. In addition to federal grants and aid, GCU's online students received nearly 161 million bucks in institutional scholarships last year. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University, Private Christian affordable. Visit gcu. Eduardo, my offer to see the scholarships you may qualify for. Russian forces are closing churches and persecuting Christians all across Russian occupied Ukraine. Soldiers are shutting down places of worship. Many evangelical churches absolutely destroyed.

[C]

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[A]

We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever to cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer. And all I can tell you is there is no way I am canceling one stop on this tour. Not one stop. I'm going, I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're going to make it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you. We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real. To honor him. I really, now, more than ever, would love to see you all face to face. God, I would love to see you face to face. I need to see you face to face. I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me. MeganKelly.com for the tickets.

[D]

Thank you for standing up to the.

[A]

Lies against Israel in the United Nations. Thank you for brokering the historic Abraham Accords. Thank you for withdrawing from the disastrous Iran nuclear deal. Thank you for supporting Operation Rising Line.

[D]

And for your bold decision to launch Operation Midnight Hammer.

[A]

My friends, this is only a partial.

[D]

List, but it's enough to affirm what I've said time and again.

[A]

Donald Trump is the greatest friend that the state of Israel has ever had. In the White House, everyone is getting up on their feet, everyone cheering. Trump sitting there behind and next to Netanyahu. Wow, what a. What that's the most you ever get from Trump is just sort of like a beguiling smirk. You know, he's, he's definitely enjoying it, you know, but he, it's funny because he works so hard, but he actually doesn't. I don't, he doesn't really take himself that seriously. Even in a moment like this. You think he's proud of himself, but he's kind of like, hey, this is kind of cool. He, he actually got like a literal red carpet rolled out for him. When he landed there was on the beach, the big, like, we love President Trump. There's been all these, I mean, everybody that. People are going crazy on social media in Israel, singing his praises, saying, oh, my God, There was this one woman, like, I, I wasn't gonna vote for you. I didn't like you. I didn't want you to win. In other words, I didn't grab him by the P word. No. And she's like, I was wrong. I was wrong about all of it. Like, completely jubilant over there watching him. He was asked the pettiness by some here at home. It's not happening with the Israelis, but some of our own, like, I mentioned Blinken and others. And he had. He had a good response. Here it is in South 33.

[C]

Blinken says it's good that President Trump adopted and built on the plan that the Biden administration developed.

[A]

What do you think about that?

[D]

Everybody knows that's a joke. Remember when BB Came and he begged that you not do what they were doing with Iran? You remember that, right? Begged him, and they wouldn't even listen to him. Everything they did was the opposite. What you should have done. And it's nice that they try and take a little credit. That was years ago, and the mistakes were made years ago, and it was both by Biden and Obama.

[A]

Right on. And then listen to this Baja. Just to turn the page a little, the media. So the media has had to admit what an accomplishment this is. It's been very fun to watch. Like, they're so angry about it. It's like, begrudgingly, they have to be like, it's a huge win. Never seen anything like it. All right, and then here's Christiane Amanpour. I mean, truly, you can watch the TDS coming out of her ears as she says the following. Watch this. And I think for sure, people who start to talk to the hostages who've only just been released will find that it will take a long, long time for them to recover physically. But also mentally, it's been a terrible, terrible two years for them because not only are they there, you know, they're probably being treated better than the average Gazan because they are the pawns and the chips that Hamas had. Now, Hamas has given up all its leverage, by the way. Sure. It was a day at the park for the Israeli hostages who were actually starving to death, who were in underground tunnels, who had for weeks and months, in some cases, hoods over their heads and were beaten and abused repeatedly, who had to watch their loved ones die, whose loved ones had been killed in their arms, whose babies died. I'm sure it was really wonderful experience. Christian, what the hell is she saying?

[E]

Just Absolute scum of the earth. And I don't say words like that often. They were starved, they were tortured, the women were sexually assaulted routinely. They were all beaten, they were tied for days and days on end. You could see the evidence of the torture on the arms of the returning men and on the women. Just disgusting. And Meghan, that's who our legacy media is. They are the stenographers of terrorists. She's literally running cover for Hamas. Why? What would possess you to, first of all, lie? It's wrong. You're a journalist, you're supposed to know this. We all saw that picture of Eviatar, David. Although maybe they didn't show it on CNN because they can't stand showing bad things that terrorists do. But A, it's wrong, but B, what would possess you, even if it was true, to try to find a positive spin on the kidnapping by terrorists of innocent young people. It's so disgusting and yet so totally in line with how our legacy media has treated this. The New York Times had a headline the other day, what will Hamas do now that it's given up its leverage? The New York Times is very worried that the mass raping, baby killing group that hides behind its own women and children and tortures and executes its own elderly and teenagers is not gonna have any leverage anymore. This is who they've been from the beginning of this conflict because they're totally wokeified. And everybody who works and consumes this legacy media at this point are part of that disgusting, over credentialed leftist elite who inherently side with the people they see as having less power. And so they're completely in the bag for Hamas. But just to see that from Christiane Amanpour on CNN, on this of all days, just utterly, utterly, utterly repulsive. I'm seeing so many people on social media saying, that's it, I'm never watching that channel again.

[A]

Good. I mean, they should have come to that realization a long time ago. But it is, it's interesting to watch. You know, we are seeing cheers in the Middle east. We are seeing cheers amongst the Palestinians. For Trump, we are seeing that. It's crazy. Trump made the point earlier and he's right. He's like, normally you only have one side cheering when something like this comes to a close. But we have both sides cheering here. But the media, they're not cheering, Batya. They, you can watch. They're forced. They know it's such a huge accomplishment. They have to say like, good job, but they're not actually feeling it. I think Christiane kind of landed in the place she felt good about, you know, like, they had it better off than the Gazans. And now you'll probably hear that repeated because others will be like, oh, yeah, that's a good line. That's. I'm going to go with that. And I do wonder, like, why? Why, like, what did they do? They want the hostages to die? I can't. I can't go that far for them. Did they just want this to go on and on so that Israel got further and further demonized? You know, like at you and I have talked about this, but it's my own support for Israel that made me say, we gotta wrap it up. Like, you're losing support. We can't have a relationship between the United States and Israel fracture. But I feel like they, they wanted the opposite. They wanted it to go on and on because they saw Israel losing international support and they loved it. Like, go look at Mehdi Hassan's Twitter feed. He's not feeling too celebratory. And I do wonder what's going on there. What do you think?

[E]

I couldn't agree with you more. The whole, you know, ceasefire now crowd is silent now that there's an actual ceasefire. A, cuz Donald Trump did it, and B, because a lot of people were making big career moves off of this whole war and celebrating the fact that Israel was now losing tons and tons of support. Something, by the way, that was extremely important to President Trump to put a stop to. Just like you, Meghan. And he explicitly said that. He said, you can't stand alone, Israel. Bibi, you cannot do this alone. You have to wrap it up. And then was able to pull this off. I think what's happening here with the hostages versus the Palestinians is that in the WOKE mindset, only certain kinds of victims count. So in the Judeo Christian worldview, we divide things based on right versus wrong. We have an internal moral compass. A lot of it comes from the Bible, comes from God, comes from our values and our tradition that says this is wrong and you shouldn't do it and this is right and you should do it. And the people who do the right things are good and the people who do the wrong things are bad. It's like a normal way of thinking about things. But in the WOKE mindset, they've thrown all that out and they've replaced it with a different binary. There's only who has more power and who has less power, and whoever has less power. That's virtue, is being powerless. And people who have darker skin are Powerless. And people who have lighter skin are powerful, and thus they are inherently evil. So it's not divided based on your actions, but just based on your gender or your race or what have you. So that's how you get into a situation where every Israeli which are coded as white, the way that they code Jews as white, is powerful and thus evil and an oppressor and a colonizer. And every Palestinian who has darker skin is oppressed and weak and powerless and therefore inherently virtuous. And that includes Hamas. Meghan, because they have no internal mechanism to say, well, maybe not all Palestinians. No, because it's based on race. Right. It's not based on your actions. So there's nothing in the mindset that explains to them why they should be condemning Hamas and how an Israeli who's held captive could actually be the real victim here and the one deserving of their sympathies. And this is the mindset that every person with a college degree and every person certainly with a graduate degree, and that's most journalists, by the way, have graduate degrees. They all get inculcated into this woke mind virus. And so this explains all of the legacy media. It's not because they're on the left, although they are. It's because they're over educated in universities that teach them this utterly godless way of looking at the world.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So where are we now, Bhatia, with the. This thing looking like it's been, I hate to choose the word like settled, resolved. Those are all scary, optimistic words that you don't like to use about the Middle East. But a peace deal has been struck, and the. The biggest part of it, releasing the hostages, has been lived up to the live hostages. Well, we can fight about the remains of the dead, but getting those live hostages back was just. You can't overstate how huge it was. But now what? Given that Israel has suffered in terms of its popularity and its favor in the Western world, now what? Where do we go from here?

[E]

So each of those leaders wants something from Trump. Turkey, they want F16s, they want an easing up of sanctions. Saudi Arabia, I think, want into the Abraham Accords, just like Indonesia, you have Qatar, who wanted an apology from Bibi Netanyahu and want to have very good relations with Trump. And then you have Egypt, who were desperate not to have Palestinians in Sinai and also get a lot of foreign aid. Everybody now is thinking, what can I get out of Trump? And I think he's thinking, how can I give each of them what they're asking for so they Give me what I want, which is this peace deal.

[A]

We have no better steward in office than this guy. Completely trust Trump and have my faith in him on this and, and literally virtually every piece of his agenda. He's doing exactly what he promised he would do and unlike everybody else, he's actually getting it done. Batya, what a pleasure. Thanks for being us here with us on a day like this of all days. Wow, it was wonderful to see you, Megan.

[E]

God bless and protect you. Thank you for everything.

[A]

Oh, you too. Gosh, it just feels so wonderful to have good news with. Great to have good news. Coming up, the luminous one and only Cheryl Hines. Yes, she's a Hollywood star. She also happens to be the TV wife of Larry David, but more importantly, the actual wife of our Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Lots to discuss. Can a home security system really call itself security if it only responds once someone is already inside your home? With Simply Safe, it's different. AI powered cameras detect threats while they are still outside of your home and alert real security agents immediately. These agents take action before anyone breaks in. They confront the intruder. They're like, hey, we see you. They let them know they're being watched. They call the cops and if needed, they sound a siren or trigger a spotlight. That's amazing. I mean, you almost kind of want to see it happen. That's real security. Simply Safe's monitoring agents have your back talking to intruders even when you're not at home. There are no long term contracts or hidden fees you can cancel at any time. And with a 60 day money back guarantee, you can try it risk free. Enjoy the peace of mind it provides whether you are home or away. The cameras, the app and the rapid response make it feel dependable and Smart. Right now, save 50 on a SimpliSafe home security system at SimpliSafe.com Megan that's SimpliSafe.com Megan. There is no safe like simply safe. I know how hard it can be to get kids interested in ideas that actually matter. You can lecture them all day about freedom, responsibility, our country's founding. But if their eyes glaze over, nothing's going to stick. But let me tell you about Tuttle twins. Their new family starter pack makes these big ideas click for kids through their storytelling approach. These are fun adventures where the lessons come alive. Kids experience the ideas in a story. They understand them, they remember them, and they can explain them back to you. The family starter pack includes all 14 of the original Tuttle twin storybooks covering topics like free markets individual liberty and personal responsibility, plus both volumes of America's history so your kids can learn the truth about our founding from original sources, not political spin. It's everything you need to give your kids the education and values they deserve and they will actually enjoy it. Right now there's a special deal on the family starter pack. Go to tuttletwins.com mk that's tuttletwins.com MK and get your set today. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained.

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We are going on the road. Join me live Megyn Kelly Live 10 stops across the country. Join May 4th for no BS, no agenda and no Fear Live. I'll be joined by Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Adam Harolla, Charlie Sheen, Piers Morgan, Donald Trump Jr. Eric Trump and Erica Kirk. Send a message that we will not be silenced. It's Megyn Kelly Live, presented by y Refi and SiriusXM. Go to MeganKelly.com to get your tickets now. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius, SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

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Go to SiriusXM.com MK show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MK show and get three months free. Offer details apply.

[A]

Cheryl Hines is an actress and comedian known for her role on Larry David's show as his wife in the hit HBO program Curb youb Enthusiasm. She's also the actual real life wife of our current Secretary of Health and Human Services, who the man we affectionately call RFKJ here on our show. Cheryl's new memoir, Unscripted is out next month and it delves into her life growing up, the ups and downs of Hollywood, her marriage and the campaign trail, along with much more. Welcome to the show, Cheryl.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's wonderful to see you.

[B]

I'm happy to be here.

[A]

I I was not sure you're going to be able to make it because we're having a nor' easter up here.

[B]

No, that's what they keep saying.

[A]

You're tough.

[B]

You're tough. I was thinking about this all the way over here. You are. You're pretty amazing. You have really. You have risen above everybody. You know, you've been through. People like to come at you. People like to come at you.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[B]

And here you are, and you're one of the. You know, there are a lot of podcasters, but you're one of the top. Very top. And one of the few female. Yeah, super top.

[A]

Well, thank you.

[B]

And I. I see you.

[A]

Thank you. I feel seen in her. They do come for me. I go for them too, though. You know, it's like, it's fine. It's sort of a weird ecosystem. It's like when people go on Twitter and then they complain that people are mean.

[E]

Right.

[A]

Ma', am, why are you. McDonald's? Like, go to Instagram if you want nice people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In news, it's a rough and tumble business. Yes. So it's like. Like, I recently saw a friend of mine and she was like, oh, do you know people are attacking you. Are you. I'm like, oh, please.

[B]

If this is okay, if this is the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm good. Bad words coming at me.

[A]

Well, that's the good. That's the advantage of having gone through it many times. Right. Is it like, when it happens then the 10th or 11th time, you're like, yeah, I'm fine. Yeah. Now, how. How has that been for you? Because you've had a lovely life in Hollywood as a big star, and then now, boom, you're in politics.

[B]

Yeah. Through.

[A]

Not exactly. Exactly a choice of your own.

[B]

You're correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was a learning curve. Because, like, you're saying, I mean, when I started out as an actress, you know, you start out, and when people start recognizing you for no reason whatsoever, people still can be mean to you online. They can say, whatever.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Don't like the way you look. Don't like this. Don't like what you're wearing, Whatever. That's fine. But then when Bobby got into politics, it was a different world. And at first, you know, I was kind of taking it all on. Like, that's so hard. I can't believe they said that. And then now I'm like you. I realize, oh, it's part of the ecosystem. Like you said, this is what people do.

[A]

It's weird. It's like when we saw Trump and Obama sitting next to each other at the Carter funeral, yucking it up like Arch Enemies.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When you see them publicly, when they have to do politics, like, the nastiest you can get. But, like, behind the scenes, everybody understand it's kind of. I don't want to say game, which makes you light of it, but it's just sort of you put your armor on when you're doing politics and you do politics and behind the scenes, hopefully you can still be a person.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And do what those two did.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not everyone can, though. And I know you've experienced some of that and all. But, like, has it been fun? Because when you married a Kennedy, you were not marrying an actively political Kennedy at the time. Right. Bobby was a lawyer.

[B]

I actually, when I met him, I asked him if he was ever, you know, had a desire to go into politics, and he said no. You know, he said he felt like he could get. He could achieve more as an environmental attorney.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not. So he could go after big corporations, big companies, without worrying about a political party. So I felt good about that.

[A]

Yeah. And then no Hollywood actress is like, how can I get more politically involved in a way that will cause all sorts of consternation in my life? Right. I know, of course. And your career has been going so well. I mean, I'm a huge fan of yours, by the way, long before you married Bobby.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I've long been a Curb fan. I love the show. I know Larry David is not in love with my side of the aisle, but I don't care.

[B]

Right. It's funny and it's so clever. Right.

[A]

And I always knew that it was. And you get into it a lot in Unscripted. That's, I assume, why it's called Unscripted, but I didn't realize how loose it is, like, how much free reign you're getting.

[B]

There's no script that's terrifying. Well, it's. It would be if you did not have a background in improv. It would be terrifying. But, you know, I started at the Groundlings theater in la, even though I had studied theater and acting with scripts. That's what they tell you when you're learning. They're like, all your answers are in your script.

[A]

Yeah, that would be comforting.

[B]

Yes, that is comforting. And then when I started learning how to improvise at the Groundlings, they said, clear your mind and don't think of anything until you hear what that person next to you says. And it's. It's a hard adjustment.

[A]

Do you have to be genuinely clever in your own right to be good at improv?

[B]

Well, I think if you want to be entertaining in improv, you probably do.

[A]

Like, can a boring person be good at improv?

[B]

Yes. And that is what you have to say in improv. Does an audience want to watch a boring person improvise? That's the difference.

[A]

I guess it depends on what the scene is and what the person's supposed to be.

[B]

I mean, there aren't a lot of people that are dying to watch boring improvs. So I think you have to. You have to be able to trust yourself, which is. It's hard to get there, to say, listen, whatever you're about to say is the right thing. And even if the audience doesn't laugh, don't sweat it. If the audience boos, don't sweat it. It was the right thing. And you're going to have the next thing that you have to say. So you have to not judge yourself, which is hard. And you also have to not worry about the reaction. You just have to really listen to what you're seeing partner saying and say yes. And if you're good at it, like live improv, I find terrifying, but the people that are good at it are very entertaining.

[A]

Well, when you're across from Larry David, who really is genuinely funny. Just him. Just his personality. Personality, yeah. Does it make it easier because you don't have to be the one that leads every scene.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just him being himself is going to make people laugh.

[B]

It does. You know, and especially improvising on screen, to me, is so much easier because you're not. You don't have people, like, looking at you, watching you.

[A]

Yes. That's how I feel about the news business. I can do it much better sitting here in a studio than, like, if I have to go and speak to the people and look at them directly.

[B]

Right, right. I think that's why podcasts are so successful, too, because it's just you and me talking in a little room. But it would be different if there were, you know, 500 people out there watching, sitting, you know, 10ft away from us. So with Larry, yeah, I was pretty much the straight man on the show. And he would write a story outline, so the story outline would be hilarious. But I didn't have to worry about what I was gonna say. And he specifically did not want you to think about what you were gonna say. He didn't want anybody to try to be funny because the situations were already funny.

[A]

That's right. I get it. It's just the setup is funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, so let's go back before Curb and the young Cheryl Hines. You're from Florida. Grew up with not a lot of money.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Grandparents lived in a trailer nearby. Your parents didn't have a lot of dough either. True. One of three kids.

[B]

Four.

[A]

Four. Okay. I'm sorry. Cause you lost your brother. Yeah.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

And did you always know you wanted to be an actress?

[B]

I did always know that, probably since I was like, eight, you know, because we would watch the Carol Burnett show and I thought, oh, my. That's what I want to do.

[A]

So the comedic thing resonated with you from an early age.

[B]

And then. And then when I was in middle school and high school, I was just the theater nerd.

[A]

You were.

[B]

Yeah. And chorus nerd.

[A]

Were you cool or was it truly nerdy in your school?

[B]

It. I guess high school was a little. Well, we thought we were cool. Are you a nerd?

[A]

If you don't know, you're a nerd.

[B]

It's like, we thought we were doing pretty. Pretty good. I don't know.

[A]

Okay, so it was a goal, but, like, it's a goal for so many people, and it usually doesn't happen because it's such a competitive industry.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you actually did the cross country trip. Like, I'm going to LA.

[B]

My Toyota Tercel.

[A]

How old were you?

[B]

I was 25.

[A]

Okay. And that's. That's young enough that you can fail.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And still.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Go on to do something else.

[B]

Right, right, right, right. Well, that's true. Because it's interesting. You know, when I was writing the book, you see your life in all these little jigsaw puzzle pieces, and you put it together, and I think it was great that I didn't have much growing up because I had a. My family was really solid and we always had fun together, so. And I never felt like, oh, if we only had money, my life would be so much better. It was a good lesson for me because when I moved to la, I just. I had nothing to lose.

[A]

You know, you're the one person who moved to LA with, like, a solid family background and, like, good moral upbringing and not looking to fill some dark void that had been created by a terrible childhood. Childhood, right. It's very rare.

[B]

It is rare. It is rare. It's interesting because I know a lot of people that. That move to LA or go into, you know, acting because they want to escape. They want to be somebody else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I never had that feeling. As a matter of fact, it was really hard for me to move away from my family. Yeah, it was really hard.

[A]

Well, were you funny growing up? Because that's another piece of who you are.

[B]

It depends on if you're talking about was I in on the joke or not. But when I was really little, like, you know, 6, 7, 8, 9, I would not say I was funny, but would I say that other kids laughed? Yes, because I was, I was a. I hate to look in your eyes and say this, but I was a tattletale. I'm ashamed of it. But it's because they excluded me. So the only attention I could get was from the adults.

[A]

And I, you know, we call it whistleblower or informant. We put a better spin on this.

[B]

I am whistleblower. So that's how I got attention. I got attention from the grown ups. And I would bring them, you know, snacks that works while they watch tv. And then of course, my siblings hated it. They were like, what are you doing?

[A]

They're the other team.

[B]

Yeah. So I wouldn't say I was hilarious then. But when, by the time I got to high school, I could see what was funny. You know, even like growing up without money, you know, my sister and I would go to Goodwill to buy our prom dresses. We actually, we made our own boutonnieres for our dates. Which is kind of funny because it's not as easy as you think it might be.

[A]

I would not think it as easy.

[B]

Well, we thought it was, but we got the green tape and got some carnations and a pin. And when we got to the dance, the guy's carnations fell off and it was just wads of paint, tape. And my sister and I thought was so funny. My friend Paul was so mad, he said, oh, did you guys make these? Which only made us laugh more. So by that time, you know, I could, I knew what was funny to me anyway was when you went to.

[A]

La, did you go right into this, The Groundlings workshop? And I understand Lisa Kudrow was teaching it. You were in there with Melissa McCarthy? Yeah, somebody else.

[B]

Big.

[A]

Who was the other one?

[B]

Well, Kristen Wiig was also there around the same time.

[A]

Maya Rudolph.

[B]

Yeah, Maya.

[A]

Yeah. My gosh, what a class.

[B]

Yeah. Well, when I got to la, I was bartending at a hotel in downtown la. And I, you know, I wasn't ready for rejection because at that time you could send out your headshots and resumes to, to all these different agents. There were a lot of agents. And I didn't do it for the first year because I thought, what if none of them want me and I wasn't ready.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And so I Was just. I was bartending and. Yeah, I met Phil Hartman's sister at the bar. She was telling me about the Groundlings theater, and I went and saw a show, and I was just blown away. Was the funniest show. It's like a live snl, you know, you're watching it in person. And then I started taking classes there. Yeah. And Lisa Kudrow was my first teacher.

[A]

Was she amazing?

[B]

Amazing, yeah. So smart and funny. And this is right before she got friends.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah. So I would go to class and just, you know, watch her, like, oh, my gosh, she's got all the answers. And then at that time, as an actress, I always thought when you go into an audition, you should be really, like, professional.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And this is the script, and I'm gonna read the script. And then when I. When I saw her get friends and I saw her character that she created, I was thinking, oh, she had to go into that audition.

[A]

Quirky.

[B]

Yes, quirky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was a game changer for me because I thought, oh, I think I've been worried too much about, you know, saying the right thing, doing the right thing, because really, all they want to see when you walk into a room is who you are. What's funny about you? What do you think is funny?

[A]

Right. And not every role is like Queen Victoria. Some require a different approach.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You're a waitress at the diner. Relax.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

So it was. It was interesting. I learned so much there, you know?

[A]

So you get this audition. You were at the Groundlings. You get this audition for what was then an hour long special of Curb. It was not. It wasn't a series.

[B]

No.

[A]

It was just like, come for an hour long special and play Larry David's wife. Did you know that was the role?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Cause you had to. Did you audition with him?

[B]

I did. I auditioned with him.

[A]

And you say in the book, the one thing you didn't know in that audition is, again, the book is called Unscripted. We were talking to Cheryl Hines, it's author by now. The book comes out next month. You did not know that he has a strict rule against touching him?

[B]

No, and I'm glad I didn't, because now I know.

[A]

That's so Larry.

[B]

It is so Larry. But, you know, in the improv world, you are taught to make choices so quickly and to assume a relationship and, you know, have a lot of physicality in a scene. So if I just met you and somebody said, oh, these two are making cappuccino, you know, I might put My hand around your shoulder or something, or help your hand with the, you know, frother. But then when I was walking into the audition, the casting director said, don't. Don't touch Larry. It's like, thank you for telling me. Thank you for. But he shook my hand when I walked in, so I thought, oh, that's good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. He's not like a troll in the corner that doesn't want anybody touching him, although he doesn't want anybody touching him.

[A]

But you said he was making, like, a serious pitch at one point to try to change the universal greeting from a handshake to elbow touching. Cheryl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How's it going?

[B]

I don't think it caught on.

[A]

No, it's so awkward.

[B]

People did it on the set for a little while, and then it just.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, you. You. You'd have a better case for just the. Hey.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Like, the hand up.

[B]

And I guess this is actually touching someone in his.

[A]

I mean, in church, it's transformed post Covid. Have you noticed that? No, we don't really shake hands anymore during the piece. We used to shake hands during the piece. Now it's just like, hey. Or the little kids will give you the actual peace sign.

[B]

That's adorable.

[A]

Like, Larry would enjoy the Catholic church in that way.

[B]

Yes, definitely. Yeah. He loved social distancing. Distancing. He was like, wow, finally everybody's on.

[A]

Board getting on my program.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So you go in there and, you know, my husband, he read your book, too. You're actually going on his show.

[B]

I know, I'm excited.

[A]

But he was the one who first read aloud to me the following scene, which is very funny about when you got the call from Larry about making the. Getting the role. Okay, here it is. He calls. Hey, HBO wants to turn the series into a special or the special into a series. And I would like for you to play my wife. You. Oh, my God. That's the best news I've ever had. Him. I hope that's not true. Please tell me that's not true. It's true. Don't say that. There have to be other things that have happened that are better than this.

[B]

Yeah, that's so Larry.

[A]

That is amazing.

[B]

He can't let you enjoy one thing. He's like, yeah, this is the best news. He's like, don't say that. No, don't.

[A]

I can't possibly be your highlight.

[B]

He's like, you are. Okay. Okay, well, we'll talk later.

[A]

You know, is he like that in person? Like, is there ever Any actual enthusiasm for anything. I. The name of the show is Kirbyt.

[B]

I'm trying to think of any time I've seen him excited. You know, it's that thing with even a lot of comedians, comedic actors. They'll watch another comedian or somebody funny, and instead of laughing, they'll say, yeah, that's funny.

[A]

Yeah, right, right.

[B]

They just don't. Not all the time, but, yeah. I don't see him really get excited about things.

[A]

There was some line by Hemingway to the effect of like, I don't want to read anybody else's book because if I don't enjoy it, that's bad for me. And if I do enjoy it, I'll be so envious that that's bad for me too. I've completely screwed it up. But that's basically the notion of it. Like, Larry seems to be like, that kind of a guy. Like, I'm not really rooting for you. Right. I'm not really rooting for myself either.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

There's really no good outcome to any day. It's true. And to me, he's almost like a Woody Allen character. Yeah. I don't know if you saw Woody Allen. He's out with a book, and there was a big profile. I'm in the New York Times a couple weeks ago. And he had a quote in there saying something like, you know, I've had a great life. I come from a great family. My kids are great, and I'm really appreciative. I'm 89. I feel in good health. I'm totally miserable. The whole thing has been a disaster.

[B]

Yeah, that does sound like Larry. Well, Larry did a Woody Allen movie. Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't remember the name.

[A]

Of it, but I mean, it seems like if you're like a comedic actor and you came up over the past, you know, 50 years, you probably had some stint in a Woody Allen good for good or for worse, so you get this job. And I did not realize Cheryl was the series on the air for 24 years.

[B]

Well, we had, I think, 12 seasons. But, you know, most shows. Curb was not like most shows. Most shows would do a season a year. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But for Curb, even after the first season, after we wrapped the first season, Larry said, that's it. We're done. So, you know, I would drive home thinking, okay, I've got to look for my next. And then I get a call, we're gonna do another one. And so there was no rhyme or reason to the timing of it. But, yes, over 24 years, we did 12 seasons. There were, I think there was a time when there was like maybe a five year gap.

[A]

I remember that. I remember the gap. Like, what happened? Right. Where is it?

[B]

There's no finale. Just like. Okay, it's classic.

[A]

Yeah, we have a lot of clips, but I wanna start with one that doesn't involve Larry. It's from season 11. I'm sure you've been subjected to watching this. This is with the character Maria Sophia.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Yeah, it was the funniest thing. And I love Curb. I haven't watched every single episode, but I've seen most of them. But it was really one of the funniest things I had ever seen. I mean, on television, never.

[B]

Movie is so funny.

[A]

She's hysterical and you're hysterical. And it just for the listening audience. The premise of the scene that we're gonna show is Larry. Some guy drowned in Larry's pool and he's worried about a lawsuit. And long story short, like the. A relative of that guy or there's a guy who runs a restaurant who Larry's trying to appease into not suing him. And he agrees to give that guy's daughter in the restaurant a role in his upcoming series.

[B]

Oh, that was good. Yeah, you nail it.

[A]

Okay. And so his. That man's daughter is named Maria Sophia, and she cannot act, but she's hysterical. She's so off. She has all the wrong emotions for every single line that they try to give her. And Larry has to pretend she's great because he's got to convince his fellow studio right, to cast her. So there's a scene in which you, as I think you were the ex wife by that point, he asks you if you will, like, give her an audition tape. Like help her with her audition tape.

[B]

Yeah, and her audition tape. Yeah.

[A]

So she comes over to your house and she acts up this scene and you are. You don't know what you've been handed. Yeah, okay, here it is in part.

[B]

I wanted to talk to you about that David boy.

[A]

Larry.

[B]

Yeah, that's his name. Larry David.

[A]

Well, what about him?

[B]

I feel like you're being seductive right now. You're talking to your mother.

[A]

You're talking to her.

[B]

Are we not close in real life? Do you ever talk to your mother like that?

[A]

No, I don't seduce my mom. What is wrong with you?

[B]

God, I don't really care for him. I think he's mentally disturbed.

[A]

He is not mentally disturbed. I know what.

[B]

I saw that choice that you made. And maybe it's time to make a new choice.

[A]

Like what kind of dance?

[B]

No, not at.

[A]

You want a little bit of salsa?

[B]

Let's keep. Bring. Let's just keep. He's got mailman written all over him. You want bald children with no brains? Go right ahead.

[A]

I don't have to listen to you. If I want to see Larry, I am gonna see Larry. You are a horrible mother. I never want to see you again. Yeah, and I know you stole my jacket. What are you talking about?

[B]

Rebecca?

[A]

Don't touch me. Why you want to touch.

[E]

What are you saying?

[B]

The jacket, it.

[E]

I don't know what you're talking about. Get off me. Uncle Mo.

[A]

What is wrong?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Coming. I want my jacket back.

[A]

She's beating the hell out of you. Ted Danson's there too.

[E]

Ted dancing.

[B]

Comes in and gets tackled. That scene was so funny because she was so good. And when she makes the turn and she's like, give me my jacket, it's like, what do you.

[A]

So how much is it? Was that planned? Like, she's gonna beat the hell out of you. That must have been square.

[B]

That was planned. She was gonna beat the hell out of me. But yeah, all of the dialogue is improvised.

[A]

Oh, my God. I love your. I see the choice you made there about. A different choice.

[B]

Something else.

[A]

I feel like you're being seductive about your mother.

[E]

It's just like, what are you doing?

[B]

Then she just would get so angry.

[A]

Cheryl, how do you not laugh? Like, seriously, how do you not break down in hysterics as she's doing the weird dancing and the seductive to her mother thing?

[B]

That was hard. I have to bite the inside of my cheek.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ow.

[B]

Well, it works.

[A]

See, that's a bad habit because it can swell up with scar tissue and then it interferes with your speaking. I know about this because it sounds like you do. Because I never had my wisdom teeth removed and my mouth is too small for all those wisdom teeth. I know. No one would believe it. Smallmouth. And I was going through a thing where I kept biting on my cheek and it was killing me. So I had one wisdom tooth pulled.

[B]

Can I ask you this? You don't have to answer, but why didn't you have him removed?

[A]

I don't. I came from a not well off family that didn't think about things. The same reason I didn't take any review course for the sat.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Right.

[B]

By the way, the sat. I took that thing the night after our homecoming dance. I didn't do great. Let's be honest, it was A surprise.

[A]

I didn't even know we were having the sat. I was like, oh, it's the SAT today. Oh, shit. Does anyone have a number two pencil?

[B]

That's exactly how it was. And I was like, okay. And I never took it again. Did you ever take it again?

[A]

I never took it. No one even thought to tell me to take it again.

[B]

No.

[A]

My parents were like, oh, okay, that's fine. It was terrible.

[B]

So interesting.

[A]

I did terribly and miraculously, I still got into Syracuse University because I had a decent gpa. And I think they actually were. They just had mercy on me because my dad. Like, they did my.

[B]

I don't think that's how it works in admissions.

[A]

No, they did. I have a story because my dad had taught there my first 10 years of life, we lived in Syracuse, and then my dad had passed, and so my story, you know, was like. And I think they actually did just have mercy on me because I did not really. Syracuse, it's much harder to get into now, but back then, it wasn't that hard. Yeah, but I still shouldn't have been admitted with that SAT score. It's just. I don't know, I was focused on other things. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. It is a different world, and it's a different world when you come from. I was going to say wealth or money or resources.

[A]

Yes. But we would never let our kids go into the SAT without having taken some practice tests. Like, that's not even a thing in the world I'm in now.

[B]

I know it's weird, but maybe because we grew up because, you know how it. I mean, it's amazing that my siblings went to college. It's amazing because our parents were not. You know, they didn't say, you guys have got to go to college.

[A]

It's like a thrill that you seem to be kind of happy and not upset about too much.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, do your thing.

[B]

Yeah, do your thing.

[A]

You went to Cosmos Cosmetology School?

[B]

I did before I went to college.

[A]

Yeah, you eventually went to college. But, like, did anybody care about that? Because, you know, in this community, if a kid said, I'm going to cosmetology school, the parents would be like, what do you mean? You're going to an Ivy League?

[B]

No, my mom was thrilled. And as a matter of fact, like, halfway through, you know, I was 17 when I started cosmetology school, and I was having to do perms and Jheri curls, and this woman came in and. And I. I thought something looked off. And I asked My teacher to come look at her hair, and she said, she has licensed and you need to go tell her. And I'll. I was like, I don't. I don't. I don't want to tell her.

[A]

I don't want anything to do with this.

[B]

And I've been like, shampooing. There's so many things.

[A]

I can feel them right now.

[B]

Oh, I know, I know. And at one point I thought, I don't think I want to finish this. For me, my mom gave me a long talk, and she said, do not quit. Like, finish what you start. You started this, and you should finish it. I was like, well, we're talking about beauty school. Right. But it was a good. It was a good lesson. And I did. And I did.

[A]

And those are skills you can always use.

[E]

True.

[A]

You know, I always wish I had taken something like that because it would have saved me a fortune.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

Do you do your own hair and makeup or.

[B]

No, not today.

[A]

So it's not. So you just. It's not saving you a fortune.

[B]

Yeah, wasn't. But I think it was helpful when I was going out on auditions and stuff. I think that was helpful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you go back to college. Okay. So now you get the role on Curb, and then you shot to stardom quickly. That's a big role for your first big break.

[B]

What was interesting, because the show was, I don't want to say small, but compared to the other shows that were on HBO at the time. I mean, when we premiered. We premiered after Sex and the City, before the Sopranos.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So you had those shows that were so big. Remember the Sunday nights watching it?

[A]

Yes. It was appointment television, so we were kind of.

[B]

The little show in between. It was supposed to look like a documentary, so it was sort of, you know, it was not shiny and pretty like the others. And so at the beginning, it was really. The industry liked it, liked the show because they loved Larry. Larry co created Seinfeld, and he's so funny, and everybody wanted to see what he was going to do, but the rest of the country, you know, a lot of people didn't know what to make of it.

[A]

What is. Took a while to get familiar with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's cadence and realize, like, it's a show about nothing like Seinfeld, you know, it really is.

[B]

Yeah. And there aren't punchlines because there's no script.

[A]

No. But you never turn out without having had genuine laughs. Yeah.

[B]

Even when you're. Even when you sit down and you're and you think, I'm not in the mood to laugh out loud. And I'm just gonna watch this. And then Larry does, you know, I don't know, tripped Shaquille o' Neal during a Lakers game. And. And now all of LA is mad at him.

[A]

Or he's stealing sneakers from the Holocaust Museum.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Nothing is untouchable. No. Nothing.

[B]

No. And then you can't. You can't. And you turn it off, going, I can't believe he just did that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

How is he still getting away with it?

[A]

I know he can get away with it. So now What? So then 2014, you and Bobby got together. What was the year you guys got together?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Somewhere in there.

[B]

Yeah. Let's say somewhere in there.

[A]

And at that point, he was a Democrat from a famous family who was an environmental lawyer. So I imagine there was no. Like, why him? Like, there would have been had you married him, like, today.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Okay. So it's like, great. Cool, Kenny.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then he, you know, now I feel like knowing him the way I know him, which is just a little from, you know, this era of his life seems inevitable. He was going to get into politics in some way. Like, he's just too dedicated to, like, helping people and these causes that mean so much to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So. But it was a surprise to you. He went first. People may forget he ran for president for a year and a half before he actually, you know, endorsed Trump. And then, I haven't forgotten, went the HHS route. So you. Not only does he said he getting. He's getting into politics, he's getting into presidential politics. And by the way, I guess we kind of skipped the port, the part where he was banned. He was at the top of the disinformation dozen by the Biden White House.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ours was one of the very first shows that platformed him. And he's been very sweet and thanked us publicly many times for helping me.

[B]

Very grateful to you.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

We.

[A]

It was our pleasure. But you would not believe how hard it was because none of the platforms wanted him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we had to do this crazy interview with him. Was three hours long, four hours. We did two hours and two hours. We're like, we had to fact check him on all these things just to make it live.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, quote, fact check.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In other words, you just challenge him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And he did it. Lived on every single platform. And after that, he was, like, not untouchable anymore. Yeah. It was like we had done it and it Was like, it's fine. You can interview him and it can live and you won't get censored everywhere.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then the more people listen to him, I think the more they were like, oh, my God, he makes so much sense.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is what they've been telling us is so terrifying.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So what was that like for you to see him? Sort of normal environmental lawyer, then disinformation doesn't. Banned and then kind of back and running for president.

[B]

Well, that's why I wrote a book, because it was crazy. It was crazy. There were times that were really challenging, you know, and also times that were fun, more challenging than fun. But it was definitely a shift. And it's strange the way it all happened. Right. Because when everybody shut down for Covid, there was a shift in the world. Right. And probably a shift in everybody's family because everybody locked down, and now you're with your family under the same roof 24 7. So that was a shift in itself. And then Bobby was questioning the vaccine safety, and that was so. People were so passionate about it. On Volatile, we're not allowed.

[A]

It was like. But the odd thing was, I mean, odd in a weird way is like a lot of crunchy people in California had questions. You know, his constituency was sort of weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Couldn't always predict it by party label or even voting history. Like, a lot of these people probably never voted.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But they had questions too.

[B]

Right. Which I actually. I love that about Bobby, and I loved when he was running. I really loved his supporters and the. The makeup of the supporters, because there were Republicans, Independents and Democrats who were coming together and they were, you know, they. They were all there because they wanted something better for each other, for themselves, and they supported Bobby. And it was so great. I just loved his supporters. But it was so interesting because, yes, in la, there's a lot of people are, I would say, very careful about what they eat, what, you know, they. Very healthy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have these people, mothers who have always been thoughtful about what they give their kids as far as medicine goes. So then when Bobby steps forward and says, I hear you, and you're right, you should be questioning, you should be thinking about it. Then to see some people turn against him was so strange.

[A]

It's like, on that issue, I mean, I've said this before when I was at Fox, if you said anything about the vaccine schedule for kids, you get a call immediately to stop talking about that. Yeah. And, you know, Pfizer was one of our big advertisers. I Was young and didn't really put it together.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it is crazy. Like, there are certain things you're not allowed to talk about.

[B]

Right. Can't talk about it.

[A]

And he was like a third rail. Let me love it. Let me hold it.

[B]

And you're over there like, I'm like, bobby, everybody. You're, like, making people go crazy. He's like, I don't care.

[A]

No, you could tell. That's true.

[B]

Yeah. That's the challenge.

[A]

Yeah. A new opportunity arose.

[B]

Yes. An opportunity. I like the way that you say that. So it was interesting because, you know, the thing about la, too, that I think a lot of people think about it because it is very liberal. It. And at the same time, there are plenty of people who aren't. There are plenty of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Republicans.

[A]

The ones who don't say, yeah, those are the Republicans.

[B]

Yeah. So it was. It was tough because I did. And I talk about it in the book Unscripted.

[A]

There we go. By Cheryl Hines.

[B]

By Cheryl hines, coming out November 11th. I talk about it because I would have been happy to never talk about vaccines. And I. I don't mean that in a bad way, because they are. It's very important. And it's, of course, very important to everyone's health and we need to look at it. But that's not what I do.

[A]

No.

[B]

It's not my background. It's not. And at that time, I had people from both sides coming at me saying, can. Let me tell you about.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This thing that happened to me, or tell your husband to stop saying that.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

And it was overwhelming at times.

[A]

You know, he felt so bad.

[B]

I know.

[A]

When we talked to him and whatever it was. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

He felt so bad. He was a poor Cheryl. Like, I know the nicest person and he was.

[E]

I know.

[A]

And he offered, like, to do a fake separation just so you can get the blowback. That's like.

[B]

Which was sweet. But I was thinking. I don't know how that would work.

[A]

Yeah. No, those can. Those things can tend to lead to the real deal.

[E]

Well.

[B]

Right. It's like, oh, are they. Then that's the story. Are they separated? No, they're still together.

[A]

No, it's. But it's crazy how people expected you actually to leave him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, of course, my team pulled together all sorts of tweets, but the one I'll read, and I don't want to give the haters a lot of air time, but one. Let me see if I can find it, it was from Bradley Whitford, who I really wanted to punch in the face after reading this. My God, what a douchebag.

[B]

And I talk about it. I talk about that in my book.

[A]

He really thinks. He's like. He thinks he's the West Wing character. Hello.

[B]

I know.

[A]

He tweets out, hey, Cheryl Hines, way to stay silent while your lunatic husband throws his support behind the adjudicated rapist who brags about stripping women of their fundamental rights. Gutsy. Great example for the kids. Profile. And courage. Do you ever think about responding? Do you ever want to be like, yo, Bradley, go fuck yourself?

[B]

Yes, I've had those thoughts. Well, it's interesting because, you know, I know Bradley. Just casually, you know, I'm sure I've worked with them somewhere, somehow, but. So I talk about it in the book because I tried to stay off social media. I tried to stay off it as much as possible. And then I wake up and I see these texts like, wow, that guy's an asshole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was thinking, oh, let's see. Of all the guys I know, that could be an asshole. Making bets with myself. Who could this be?

[A]

Well, I'm sorry, but you must have thought Rob Reiner first, because I knew you worked with him. He's got crazy tds.

[B]

Yeah, but Rob. I like Rob. And I don't think he would ever. He would never come to me personally. After.

[E]

Me personally.

[A]

Yeah. There's a difference.

[B]

He might go after Bobby.

[A]

And that's fine.

[B]

And that's fine. Yeah.

[A]

What's so weird about this is coming for you, the spouse.

[B]

I know. I was so I was. I was sort of confused because I didn't understand what he was hoping for. Yeah.

[A]

Like you're supposed to walk out in a huff.

[B]

Yeah. He's right.

[A]

Yeah. It's over.

[B]

It's over, Bobby. It was very odd. And that day I kept. You know, I'm texting my best friend Rachel. I'm like. And my friend Anne, and I'm like, do I say anything?

[A]

Do I need to make a statement? I love my husband and I'm not going to have a divorce. Or his politics.

[E]

Sorry.

[B]

So he could feel better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So worse or. I don't know.

[A]

So that I can maintain Bradley's love. You're more important to me, Bradley.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Thank you for this tweet. Now that you mentioned, I'm gonna do some work. So it was interesting because I didn't do anything. I didn't. I just, you know, took a breath and was. At the end of the day, it's a. In my opinion, sort of a Silly tweet. Also, what does he say? Something about the kids. Like, way to good example for the kids.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I was like, what kids? I didn't even understand that part either.

[A]

Bobby's step kids, your step kids of his.

[B]

Right. And it's like, well, honestly, for my kids, yeah. I think it's good to stand by your husband, your wife, your spouse when they're, they're doing something that's important. So that was also.

[A]

It's very strange you do find out, as Eric Trump was just telling us on the show on Friday, who your friends are when you get into politics. You know that Donald Trump Senior sat them all down when he announced him 15 and said, now we're going to find out who our friends are. And it's so true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, because there'd be highs and lows. And I've said this many times on the show, but no one gets as bad as Bobby, like from the press. They hate Elon. The press hates Elon. They hate Pete Hegseth, but they really hate Bobby in a particular way because he was a Democrat and you're not allowed to turn on them.

[B]

But by the way, when he was a Democrat, they did not embrace him.

[A]

No. Because he was asking the wrong questions. He was embracing the wrong third rails. But I was telling in the audience, in my house, I get the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and the New York Post every day. And when he's in the news for whatever, all three are bad. It's very rare. The very, very rare figure who has universally bad press.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But he's the most popular cabinet member. Did you know that?

[B]

I did, yeah.

[A]

He's the most popular with the people and the least popular with the press.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I think says he's doing something right right. Now, I know you, you, you write about how you've become friends with some of the other, like spouses to the cabinet members. Is there a favorite? Is there like, do you have a bestie?

[B]

What I really like Jeanette Rubio. I like Marco. I probably shouldn't call him Marco. That's the other thing I'm always asking Bobby, you know, because I see everybody at dinner and we're just hanging out that I'll say, am I supposed to call Tulsi? I even forget what her.

[A]

Madam Director.

[B]

Yes, Director. He's like, I don't think so.

[A]

You're a communist when you say it like that.

[B]

Doesn't it.

[A]

That's too much.

[B]

But I can't even remember what I'm supposed to call Everybody. But I like them all. It's interesting because I thought. I don't know what I thought. I didn't really think about it too much, but I guess I thought it would be a lot of boring politicos.

[A]

Probably in a different administration. You probably would be.

[B]

I think you're right.

[A]

This president's got, you know, a colorful personality and it attracts. Yes, right.

[B]

You're right. Colorful personalities and they like each other. This cabinet.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's interesting. I mean, once again, I've never paid attention. I couldn't tell you I don't know anything about anybody else's cabinet in the history of, you know, politics. But. But from everything I know and see and I'm experiencing, it sounds like this is a different way of leading.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That they really are supportive of each other.

[A]

Yeah. You can see that. It's a team effort.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Speaking with Cheryl Hines about her book Unscripted, comes out next month. Get your advance copy now, do you. Politics usually, in my experience, can be very beneficial to the world. It can give one a sense of fulfillment because you're doing good. It can also be very, very hard. It can be. It can be somewhat soul crushing. I know a lot of people have gone through the process and like emerged battle weary because it can be soul crushing. It's just non stop controversy and so on. So how are you guys feeling about that aspect of it? Just the non stop onslaught?

[B]

Actually, we, I don't want to say we feel good about it. Who can feel good about it? But it's, it's, you know, it makes, it makes us stronger. Me and Bobby makes us really strong because we have fun together. Even when we go to these, you know, parties or dinners, as long as we're together, we'll have fun. And then to see what he is accomplishing and what the administration is accomplishing, it feels like it's okay. People can say what they're going to say.

[A]

We're doing something higher.

[B]

Yeah. And you see, you know, Bobby's getting petroleum dyes out of our food source. You know, we're out of our food. He's getting arsenic and lead out of our baby formula. And so it's okay. We'll take the heat, we'll take the digs, we'll take the headlines, whatever. But if he's, he's actually getting really good work done. And same with drug prices, vagination, drug prices that everybody. Everything I'm talking about is beneficial for every American. Yeah.

[A]

So it's not just one stuff. You don't understand how Anybody could object to.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Have you been eating like this since you met him? Like, have you been doing the beef tallow and all that?

[B]

I'm a vegetarian. Oh, yeah. So beef tallow?

[A]

No, I just picture, like, what is life living like? Living with Bobby Kennedy. Is he up at dawn, first 10 mile run and then all like the natural, organic everything?

[B]

Yes, he's up at dawn and he gets up at the same time every day. The alarm goes off and I'm like. He gets up early, he works out every day.

[A]

You can see that in the videos.

[B]

He goes to a meeting, he's in the program and that's very important to him and that's how he starts his day. And he eats clean.

[A]

Yeah. He does not have the McDonald's on board air Force One with the prez.

[B]

No, I don't walk in and see him eating a bag of Doritos, watching football. That never happens.

[A]

Not surprised. Yeah, listen, I'm so. So you're a Washington wife right now, right?

[B]

I mean, like, currently, I guess I.

[A]

Am having dinner at the White House.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So this is a whole new phase and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it enjoyable? Like it really is. Are you enjoying this phase?

[B]

I am. You know, I think I have a lot of friends who at our age, my age, you know, their kids have gone, they've moved out and their life is sort of quiet and they're bored and my life is the opposite.

[A]

You are not bored. It would be impossible. Yeah, I gotta wrap it because we're gonna hit their hard break. But the book is unscripted. It's by Cheryl Hines. Highly recommend. It's an easy, fun, fascinating read. Make a good present. Just in time for Christmas and Thanksgiving and all the holidays. Lots of love.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Thanks for being here.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

See you soon. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.

[C]

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