Truth About Shooting in Minneapolis, and Shock Anti-ICE Network Details, w/ James O'Keefe, Dave Aronberg, and Andrew Branca | Ep. 1238

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show – Episode 1238

Title: Truth About Shooting in Minneapolis, and Shock Anti-ICE Network Details
Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: James O’Keefe, Dave Aronberg, Andrew Branca

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the recent fatal shooting of 37-year-old Alex Preddy by Border Patrol agents during an anti-ICE protest in Minneapolis. Megyn Kelly and her guests dissect the incident in depth: discussing the facts, scrutinizing activist tactics, analyzing law enforcement response, and debating the legalities around the use of force. The show also dives into the startling level of organization among anti-ICE protest groups and considers potential political and legal ramifications, both local and national.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Minneapolis Shooting

• Incident Summary: Alex Preddy, armed with a loaded gun, was involved in a confrontation with federal agents during an operation to apprehend a violent illegal immigrant. Amid chaotic protest activity—including whistling, physical interference, and resistance—Preddy was fatally shot.
• Host's Perspective: Megyn Kelly expresses frustration with agitators she deems organized and intent on provoking or harming law enforcement, calling them “terrorists” (06:40).
• Rhetorical Framing: Kelly posits that local and state leadership—and progressive media—are creating conditions for “insurrection” by encouraging interference and undermining federal immigration enforcement.

2. Analyzing the Shooting: Evidence, Video, and Eyewitness

• Timeline & Evidence Review:
  • Preddy is seen recording with his cell phone (21:45).
  • Chaos erupts, with agents shouting “Gun!” before weapons are drawn; a melee follows, ending in gunfire (25:38).
  • It remains unclear if Preddy brandished his weapon—he had a gun, but cameras do not show him pointing it.
  • Agents recover a 9mm handgun with loaded magazines from Preddy (28:50).
  • Debate surfaces on whether the weapon fired accidentally during the struggle, possibly due to a known defect (92:37).
• Important Moment:
  • [27:30] Megyn Kelly: “We count two to three seconds between ‘gun’ being screamed and the sound of gunfire... The warning that the man they were trying to arrest... had a gun came before anybody pulled their gun, much less fired it.”

3. Protest Organization: The Anti-ICE Network

• James O’Keefe’s Firsthand Reporting:
  • Describes infiltrating protest areas and encountering immediate hostilities—even being “patted down” and chased away by protestors who acted as self-appointed authorities (41:47–42:31).
  • Quote: “I've ambushed the cartel. They run away from me. They don't like the cameras. These people will kill you.” —James O’Keefe [42:24]
  • Reveals use of encrypted messaging (Signal) for coordinated action—including “spotters” at hotels, vehicle tracking, and mass mobilization within minutes (54:24).
• Threat Level:
  • O’Keefe details receiving death threats, being followed between hotels, and the presence of an “autonomous zone” where police had “left completely” (45:44–46:12).
  • “Anyone who's not them is their enemy… If you are a journalist, you're a fed.” —James O’Keefe [44:45]

4. Law Enforcement & Leadership Response

• Political Fallout:
  • Criticism levied at Minnesota Governor Tim Walz for equating ICE with Nazis and invoking Anne Frank analogies (34:05).
  • Host highlights partisan exploitation of the incident, arguing Democratic politicians use such crises to undermine Trump’s immigration policy and energize their base.
• Polling Impact:
  • Alarm raised over internal GOP polls showing declining independent and swing voter support for Trump’s immigration stance (33:12).
  • “Polls keep showing rapidly eroding support for President Trump's immigration efforts, which are completely noble and well intended, and the right policy but losing support because of the media...” —Megyn Kelly [20:09]

5. Legal & Self-Defense Analysis (Branca v. Aronberg)

• Legal Standards Discussed:
  • The “objectively reasonable” standard (Graham v. Connor case)—officers’ perception of deadly threat must be reasonable, not necessarily correct (81:36).
  • Dispute over severity of Preddy’s conduct: Did he commit felony assault, or was his interference merely misdemeanor resisting arrest? (98:14–100:25)
• Self-defense Claims:
  • Andrew Branca: “The only person responsible for the death of Alex Preddy is Alex Preddy.” [81:29]
  • Dave Aronberg: “It looks like to me the victim here, Mr. Preddy, was not a threat. The gun was not brandished... I would take this to a grand jury.” [82:07]
• Ballistics & Liability Nuance:
  • Possible accidental discharge of Preddy’s gun (Sig Sauer P329) could have triggered return fire—implications for reasonableness of agents' actions (92:37).
  • On criminal liability for officers, Megyn and Branca agree: “In a criminal prosecution, no, [negligence of another officer can't be used]… in a civil suit, maybe.” [97:08]
  • Preddy had a legal permit for the firearm; presence of gun alone isn't probable cause for use of deadly force (97:20–98:14).
  • Branca: “He got shot because he fought the police; he fought the law, and the law won.” [98:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Megyn Kelly on Parental Advice & Lawful Compliance:
  “Every normal parent tells their children, if you get pulled over by a cop or find yourself interacting with a cop, you submit… If they're wrong... we will deal with it later.” [10:59]
• O’Keefe on Activist Organization & Threats:
  “Every vehicle downtown, they're able to track, run the plates, confirm who they are… I've never seen a group more organized.” [54:24]
• Protester Escalation—Kyle Wagner Video:
  “We're not talking about peaceful protest anymore… Get your fucking guns and stop these fucking people.” [56:33–57:24]
• On Political Manipulation:
  “They see an opportunity to finally make Democrats popular again, which they haven't been for over two years… no good crisis is wasted.” —Megyn Kelly [31:10]
• Legal Panel Clash:
  • “It all happened so quickly… You're not going to hold that negligence against Officer B in determining what's a reasonable suspicion…” —Megyn Kelly [97:02]
  • “You can't interfere with a lawful arrest and say you're doing it as a Good Samaritan.” —Andrew Branca [100:04]
  • “...even if he is, it doesn’t give you the license to kill there…” —Dave Aronberg [101:43]

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Important Timestamps

• Shooting Breakdown & Evidence:
  • 21:45 – Start of video sequence analysis
  • 27:30 – Officers yell “Gun!” before firing
  • 28:50 – Gun retrieved; agent runs with it shortly before shots fired
• O'Keefe's Protest Coverage:
  • 41:19 – O’Keefe describes confrontation and threats
  • 45:44 – Details of being followed between hotels, receiving death threats
  • 54:24 – Insights on protest group coordination through Signal chats
• Political and Media Framing:
  • 30:00 – Megyn Kelly editorializes Minnesota’s political response
  • 33:12 – Discussion of internal GOP polls and media narrative
• Legal Analysis:
  • 79:49 – Legal panel begins debate
  • 81:29 – Branca asserts legal justification for shooting
  • 82:07 – Aronberg disagrees: calls for indictment
  • 92:37 – Discussion on possible weapon malfunction and implications
  • 98:14 – Analysis of Preddy’s conduct and legal standards
  • 100:04–101:03 – Whether interfering protestor’s actions amount to felony assault

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Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode is highly charged, unsparing in its criticism of Minneapolis officials and left-leaning media, and intensely skeptical of protester motives and tactics. Megyn Kelly pushes the view that federal law enforcement is facing organized and lethal opposition, and is unsupported by local powers or media. She also voices concern for political consequences for Trump and Republicans, urging strategic changes. The expert legal panel provides a more measured but still pointed breakdown of the potential for criminal charges against officers, the complexities of use-of-force law, and systemic challenges to accountability.

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Episode Structure & Flow

1. Main incident (Minneapolis shooting) introduced and editorialized
2. Step-by-step video and audio evidence breakdown
3. James O’Keefe details protest environment and threats to press and law enforcement
4. Broader cultural and political analysis: impact on national politics, media role, poll numbers
5. Firsthand reporting and deep-dive into protestor organization
6. Legal panel debate: granular legal standards, practicality of prosecution, possible outcomes
7. Closing reflections; looking ahead to legal proceedings and political fallout

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The episode captures the tension, complexity, and deep partisanship driving contemporary American debates over immigration, protest, and law enforcement. Listeners learn not only what happened, but how interpretations of events are shaped by ideology, legal nuance, and the raw emotions of a country in conflict.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Dave Aronberg]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[James O'Keefe]

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[James O'Keefe]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We begin with the shooting of a 37 year old man in Minneapolis and what President Trump should do about it. I mean, what he should do about his mission, his ongoing mission and the countries to rid the United States of, of criminal illegal aliens. Which is exactly what he was elected to do. He was elected with majority support to get rid of all the illegals here. All of them. The country was united, at least a majority of it was in getting rid of the illegals who are here. Never mind the worst, the worst ones, the ones who have committed additional crimes, of course, everyone, the majority was united in that. And that's what he's been trying to do. And he has gone city after city trying to do it with very little problems. Except in Minneapolis where he has a true insurrection at hand. I mean, he does. He has an insurrection at hand and it's evident in the streets there day after day after day. And the question is, what do we do about it? On Saturday, a 37 year old man, Alex Preddy, was shot by border patrol agents there after a confrontation. Alex Preddy was there being subversive. He was there trying to interfere with the traffic, trying to direct traffic into an ice operation from the look of it. He was not there to Help. He was not there to assist law enforcement or make things easier for them. He was there with a loaded gun looking to cause trouble for the Border patrol agents, and that trouble came back on him. We'll get into the specifics and the frame by frame and all of that in a minute. But I just want to say, like, I don't personally, I'm. I'm so sick of this bullshit. I like, these are organized agitators who train to disrupt and in some cases hurt law enforcement. They go out there looking for confrontations that they can make go viral on their social media or that they can use as propaganda to turn people against the good guys, the ones who are trying to rid us of the scourge of child molesting illegals. That's what they want to do. They want to paint themselves as noble and the ICE or the border patrol agents as awful and, and get some sort of confrontation on camera or something that'll make them look silly or bad or brutal. And then when things turn actually bad and brutal and dangerous. And in the case of Renee Good. And now this, Alex Preddy. All of their remaining enablers rush to social media and the cameras to say, you see, See, we told you. No, no. Even if I, Megyn Kelly, went to interrupt law enforcement conducting lawful arrests and law enforcement operations with, with a loaded gun. It tucked into the back of my pants. And then I engaged in a physical, physical confrontation with them. Physical where I'm shoving and they're shoving. I'd be in grave danger. Grave danger. Yes, the gun is definitely going to amp up the police officer's reasonable fear for their own safety. But even without the me having a gun in this scenario, I'd be in grave danger because resisting arrest can lead to very bad things. Just ask George Floyd. Like you don't do it. Bad things can come. You don't resist arrest. You don't antagonize cops in the middle of the street in a law enforcement operation. And then when they've got hands on you, trying to place you under arrest, you submit. That's it. Submit? Haven't we all had this conversation with our children? I've told my boys and my daughter this. My husband too. We've all talked to our kids about it. And I know some, you know, back during blm, they wanted to say, oh, only black people have this conversation with their kids. Bullshit. Every normal parent tells their children, if you get pulled over by a cop or find yourself interacting with a cop, you submit if they are being a prick, a racist, a Bully, overbearing. If they're wrong, if they don't actually have the right person, we will deal with it later. Because you don't antagonize a law officer with a gun. It's just they, they face too many threats that are deadly to them. We have to be the ones to be extra careful about not antagonizing. We do. Especially in Minnesota, in Minneapolis, because of what they're doing to the Border Patrol in the ICE there. I'm sorry, but there's, there's actually a greater, ironically, responsibility on those protesters. They're, they're terrorists, in my view, to behave well and submit immediately than there is on anybody else. Because they have put these guys on, on the razor's edge. I mean, as, as Alex Preddy is getting shot, an ICE officer was getting elsewhere in Minnesota, his finger bitten off by one of these terrorists. Like, I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for Alex Preddy, but. But I don't. I don't. Do you know why I wasn't shot by Border Patrol this weekend? Because I kept my ass inside and out of their operations. It's very simple. If I felt strongly enough about something the government was doing that I would go out and protest. I would do it peacefully on the sidewalk without interfering via a whistle, via shouting, via my body, via any other way. I would make my objections known by standing there without interfering, because interfering is where you go south. And laying hands on a police officer trying to, or a Border Patrol officer or ICE officer trying to conduct a law enforcement operation is a felony. And now you are going to get arrested. And if you do anything, anything that resembles resisting, you're in serious trouble. It doesn't give them the, quote, right to shoot you. It amps up the situation and the danger such that they may be found in reasonable fear of their safety if they do. I sent out, I sent out a. A post on X over the weekend saying, you know, maybe it's time for President Trump to just pull ICE out of Minnesota. Pull them. Not, not as a cave to these lunatics, but to teach them a lesson. Let, let's pull all of ICE and all of Border Patrol and then say, you know what world? There's going to be zero federal immigration enforcement anywhere in this state. In fact, if you're a criminal, illegal alien anywhere in the United States, here is your invitation to move to Minnesota, where we are telling you you will be safe. You will be safe there from federal immigration officials to commit crimes, no matter how destructive or disgusting it may be. Go ahead. Have at it. Have at the people of Minnesota. I'm sorry, if you're a Republican, you're gonna have to leave. You're gonna have to get out. I know it's inconvenient. I had to do it. Look, we fled New York. We had to. Had to do it for the good of our, our kids. We went to a blue state, Connecticut, which is a little bit more purple in certain pockets. But I'm sorry, you're, you're. You've chosen to live in a state that is just too insane. And honestly, like, we, all the illegals should go there and we should also tell them you can set up a fraudulent business there and it will flourish unchecked with the help of Minnesota taxpayers, not federal, because we're going to have to find a way to cut off federal taxpayer money to Minnesota. That's obvious. They're basically seceding from the union and also every single asylum seeker in the usa. Trump is done a good job of shutting down asylum seekers because it was just so abused under Biden. But let's say we reopen that spigot or we allow some to pursue it. Every single one must live in Minnesota if they want to apply for asylum. We are not considering any asylum applications that come from anybody from a state other than Minnesota. Let's get them all into Minneapolis and St. Paul. Get them all there. You love the illegals so much, go there. Welcome them into your community with the open arms you purport to have as they're being deported and shipped out. I mean, as they're being shoved out, you're suddenly super welcoming. Okay. I mean, they're committing forcible sodomy on children, but I guess that, you know, you'll just handle it. Maybe you'll just give them a cup of chamomile tea and talk them out of their lawless ways. Good luck. I honestly, like, I'm, I'm tongue in cheek here, but I'm like, something dramatic must be done. Like, if this is how it's going to go, if they don't want any help from their federal government, who's. Who's got sole responsibility for immigration enforcement soul the states have none. It is up to President Trump to deport the illegals and to secure the border. If they don't want anything to do with it, they don't want the feds doing their job, which is not for them to say. I mean, it is. It is subversive, unlawful, and you could argue now insurrection, what they're doing. Maybe the answer is okay, okay. Have them. Remember when Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis shipped the illegals who had been crossing the border north to Chicago, to New York, to Martha's Vineyard. It changed everything, change the entire conversation. All those rich progressives in Martha's Vineyard couldn't get those illegals out of their island fast enough. Remember? I mean, it was like literally less than 48 hours. Governor just had to send 50, 50 of them to the island. Less than two days later, they'd been shipped off to mainland Massachusetts, remember? And then. And then somebody said. Somebody was interviewing and said, oh, we missed them. We're going to go visit them at the facility to which they've been shipped to. Sure, sure. Jan, how those visits go? Probably lost. It's like, you know, adopting a hamster. You lost interest after the first week, I'm sure, honestly. But they felt the pain that previously only Texas had felt. And maybe what we need to do is let Minneapolis, they love the illegal so much, let's ship them all there. We've got detention facilities all over the country. Maybe they all need to be in Minneapolis now. Sorry, they do. Sure. We've got some federal land, some federal parks that we can fill with ice, detention facilities. And then we can incentivize the other illegals. Maybe we'll tell them we're going to implement E Verify Everywhere in the Union. All 50 states except one. Except one. Minnesota. You can get a job there. You can work with the state government. Let's just create every single incentive we can. I'm sorry for our normal people in Minnesota. I really am. I realize this is completely F you over. You're going to have to move. You're going to have to get out. There are other states that are also like Minnesota, like Michigan, but slightly less crazy. Again, I'm tongue in cheek, but I'm also genuinely trying to think of ways to respond to this other than just amping up law enforcement. Because the downside of amping up the law enforcement or actually invoking the Insurrection act, which many are saying it's time to do, is President Trump is going down in the polls day by day as a result of all of this. The media has lost its mind. It's even more biased and disgusting than normal, and it's doing its level best to completely tank Trump and all Republicans on this. And it's working. It's working. The polls keep showing eroding, like, rapidly eroding support for President Trump's immigration efforts, which are completely noble and well intended, and the right policy but losing support because of the media, because of David Muir and others like him. I was talking to my mom. My mom somehow fell over into watching ABC Evening News. She started to sound like a leftist. I said, mom, what the hell? What are you doing? She's like, oh, I've been, I've been out during the day, so I've just been popping on David Mirror at night. So, Mom, I insist that you stop that. I insist. She's, oh, yeah, you know, if I just want like a half an hour update, like, no, now she's watching Special Report. If she needs to watch news in the 6 o' clock hour, she's getting back on track. But this is like the manipulation of people, even people who should know better, is ubiquitous. It's ubiquitous. It's abc, it's NBC, it's cbs, it's cnn, it's msnbc, it's the New York Times, it's the Washington Post, it's the Chicago Tribune, it's the Minneapolis Star Tribune. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. And so President Trump is losing on this issue. Don't kid yourself. I say this as a supporter who doesn't want him to, but this is gonna turn into an absolute bloodbath come the midterms. I mean, we're talking about possibly losing Senate seats, losing the Senate and control Republican control. So something needs to be done. So do we just invoke the Insurrection act and say we're tough and like, fu. And this is what we do? I mean, it's. I'd be happy with it, but I have to think about the rest of the nation, and I have to think about what's going to play long term. And I just don't know that sending the actual military there to, to keep matters in hand is going to do it. And I also don't want to see law enforcement continue to risk their lives. I mean, I honestly, like, I, I'm really. Renee Good and Alex Preddy, they died because of their own terrible decision making. They. That's. That, that's the truth. The rest of us are alive right now because we didn't do that. But I'm worried about the ICE agents, I'm worried about the Border Patrol agents who actually are just trying to enforce the law, and it's just a matter of time before one of them gets killed. You know, we've already seen several injuries. We've already seen them shot. It's just a matter of time before one of them gets killed. On Sunday, Vice President J.D. vance wrote on X quote, this Level of engineered chaos is unique to Minneapolis. It's the direct consequence of far left agitators working with local authorities. He's right. According to data collected by the nonpartisan Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, ICE arrests and detains far more illegals in Texas than any other state. Around 17,000 makes sense given its border straight location. An NBC News tracker finds the there are around 1700 detainees in Minnesota. Think of it. Not 17,000, just 1700 in Minnesota, but all the attention in Minnesota right now. Why? Why? Reporters at Fox News reviewed a sophisticated database of coordinated web chats by far left groups in Minneapolis on Saturday. Followers were told to swarm the glam doll donuts where this shooting of Alex Preddy just so happened to go down in minutes. We're going to be speaking with independent reporter James o' Keefe who's in Minneapolis. He posted on X over the weekend saying he's covered the cartels operating around the southern border and beyond. But even he is struck by how organized and evil these agitators in Minneapolis are. He said they have spotters on most street corners, even 30 minutes outside of the downtown going into the suburbs. He said there's an autonomous zone being set up like a no go zone for law enforcement, period. He went there and said he identified himself as Press and they said they will kill Press. At one point they patted him down like they were the authorities. Patted James o' Keefe down for weapons like they were the authorities. We don't know if Alex Preddy was sent to that area specifically by these anti ICE agitators or whether he was officially part of the group. But some on that street were because they had the telltale signal of whistleblowing, which is their favorite thing. And by the way, that needs to stop. Okay, now some are saying that's fine. That actually is interference. You, if you came out on your front lawn and just whistle, blew a coach's whistle at the top of your lungs all day, you would be cited by the police under the local noise ordinances. It would be a disturbance of the peace. That's what these people are doing. And no doubt they contributed to the chaotic atmosphere that ultimately led Alex Preddy to die on Saturday. The cops aren't 100% at their best when they can't hear anything. People are screaming in their ears and blowing whistles in their ears. It increases the likelihood of a bad shoot. No doubt. By now you've probably seen at least one of the videos of the shooting on Saturday. We're going to walk you through some of the Key ones. So you know what we actually know. Not bullshit. It's very, very dangerous to go online right now. It's not full of bullshit. Fucking AI everywhere. I mean, truly, like, you don't. There's so much AI out there trying to show all Alex Preddy with the gun in his hand, which did not happen, or a police officer, like, pointing it at Alex Preddy's head, which is not available on the tape. Be careful. Like now more than ever. Go to a trusted news source. Keep it right here. We have a team of producers that goes through all these videos. It's not that we're. It's impossible for us to make a mistake, but we're honest and we have a whole team dedicated to not making them. If we make them, we'll correct them. So there's still many unanswered questions about what happened. That's the truth. For example, where. Where exactly on Alex Preddy did the agents find the gun? Why did DHS claim in its initial tweet that Preddy, quote, wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement? Right now you have reporting by Bill Millucian of Fox saying that's all bullshit. And that internally, ICE agents are. They've had it with Kristi Noem and dhs and these overstatements about what happened, they don't want that. They want just state what happened. And they seem to be saying that's all bullshit. There was no attempt to massacre. We didn't see that. I think they're ready to defend their guy, though. Many are saying it was a bad shoot. Off the record, you know, not attributable, but. But a bad shoot doesn't mean that cop's going to jail. It means. It could potentially mean he is. He made a mistake. Interpretations of what happened vary because there were so many agents involved in the tussle with Preddy. So there's a body covering critical angles from virtually every camera we have. The incident started with Predi scene on camera holding his own cell phone, recording agents who DHS says were sent to the area to arrest an illegal with a violent criminal history. Cool. That's what they should have been allowed to do. DHS says that person remains at large this morning. I mean, not for nothing, Jesse Kelly is always saying, it's always the nurses. Like, you could take it to the bank. This is one of the groups that you're going to see out there. Boy, things have changed. You know, my mom spent her life as a VA nurse. She helped veterans, she helped with ptsd, she helped with mental Health counseling. She helped with drug addiction. Never in her wildest dreams would she consider going out there to impede law enforcement in the evenings while she saved lives during the days. So, I mean, like, it's great. This guy spent his days helping veterans. He spent his evenings hurting a lot of them. A lot of vets do join law enforcement. Enforcement for obvious reasons. And anyway, back to the scene. So you hear whistles going off as these two women yell a Border Patrol agent. Again, they're there to arrest a criminal illegal. And this is what the agitators do not want. They treat every single person who's about to get arrested as though they're just some innocent little child. But I mean, in fact, over 70% of those who ISIS nabbed in Minneapolis have been violent criminal illegals. Illegals who already have a conviction for a violent felony or have been arrested for a violent felony. Criminal illegals who are violent. Okay, but that, they don't want that. They want to get in the face of those trying to do the arrests. Here it's Border Patrol. Distract them, terrorize them, harass them, pollute them with the noise pollution and the screaming and the yelling and the, and the, and the whistles. And you'll hear some of that here. This video was obtained by Drop Site News Watch. Sorry for the listening audience. It's deafening. This is what they have to deal with. What the fuck is wrong with you? Okay, what you're seeing there. At one point, Alex Preddy was in the middle of the road. They said that he was directing traffic. And there are reports that he was directing traffic, like right in the way of ice. He did not. It wasn't like, oh, let me be a good Samaritan. This is what we've, we've been told, but that he was agitating. In any event, he was doing something with the traffic. That much is definitely clear. And then he approaches the woman and the Border Patrol agent. In this next video, you're going to see the agent shove one of the women and use a chemical irritant as he tries to get these two women and Alex Preddy off of the road. At one point, the agent yells, get back. Watch. A woman's been shoved to the ground. Alex Pred now is in between that woman and the Border Patrol. The whistles, non stop agitators, the scuffle now unfolding. Honestly. And somebody doing running commentary, which is not helpful. She's doing more harm good than good, that woman. What the is wrong with you? Honestly, she's endangering Alex Preddy. And everybody else there. Why would you try to obscure the clear hearing of the border patrol agents making the arrest? What kind of risks do you think you are creating, madam? Now, we saw in that video for listening audience that that Preddy's now in a scuffle with some six agents surrounding him. Now what does the reasonable person do? What do they do? They say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I surrender. I surrender. I surrender. That's what they say. I didn't hear any of that on the tape. Did not hear any of that. Amid the chaos, you do hear one agent say he's got a gun or gun several times. It is important to point out before the agent says that we do not see any officer with their guns drawn. Not one. It was not until after the one agent yelled, he's got a gun that we do see the others draw their guns after hearing the warning, at least one other officer. One officer grabs his own gun from his side holster. We count two to three seconds at most between gun being screamed. Again, it could be he's got a gun or gun, which they're trained to yell when they see it on a perp. For all intents and purposes, that's how they were treating Alex Preddy, which he was at that point because he had committed a felony by shoving a federal agent. In any event, we count two to three seconds between gun being screamed and the sound of gunfire a warning. This video is disturbing. The is wrong with you? Honestly? The did you just do. What the fuck did you just do? What the. Oh, now, now you have the proper appreciation for what messing with the federal agent can lead to. Lady on the side. Any sane person fully understands that before the confrontation starts, we all understand that everyone knows that law enforcement's armed. Law enforcement has been screamed at, harassed, and is dealing with some very bad hombres every day. Do not f with law enforcement. It's really simple. After that, you HEAR at least 10 gunshots. Here's that same video, but shorter. So you're going to hear the agent scream, he's got a gun or gun several times. Did you hear it right at the beginning? Can we re rack that? Let's just play that one one more time. Listen right at the top. As soon as we start playing it, you can hear. We're going to slow that down for you in one second. But it's still unclear how many agents fired their weapons amid the scuffle. Agents recovering a 9 millimeter handgun and additional loaded magazines. The next video we're Going to show you is very graphic. We did not blur it because it's already hard to see who is making what movement. This is the same video obtained by Dropsite News, but an account on X called AF Stream Watch took that video and stabilized it so it does not move around so much. They also slowed it down. All right, going to show this video. In it you see more clearly that the agent wearing a gray coat has his hands near Preddy's backside, near his belt area. It appears that he grabs something, likely the gun. But another agent blocks the camera shot at that exact moment, so he can't say for sure. An agent screams, he's got a gun or gun. The agent in green goes for his own holster and draws his own sidearm. The agent in the gray coat turns around and runs from the scene with Preddy's gun. The agent in green who's drawn his own gun, moves behind Preddy, who's now trying to get up on his knees. It's then you hear the first gunshot. And now here is a slow down sound bite of the agent screaming about a gun. Listen, You heard it, right? First they yelled, gun, gun. Then you hear a gunshot quite clearly. We'll play it again. Quite clearly. The, the warning that the man they were trying to arrest and they were wrestling with had a gun came before anybody pulled their gun, much less fired it. Here it is. God, the whistling is so annoying. Truly. Like, think, think if you had to do your job. I sit at this desk, you know, I do interviews for a living and deliver news. I don't think I could function like that. I really don't. Like, wasn't that so annoying? And I apologize to my SiriusXM audience, which is trying to drive their cars. This is like piercing through their car radios right now. We're done with that. But imagine if it's. It's all around you in person and you're trying to affect an arrest. All right, so we've made clear. It's, it's not clear to us where the first gunshot actually came from. A guy named Rob Door, who's a lawyer for the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, telling the New York Post that he believes Preddy's gun went off after the agent grabbed it, leading the other agent to open fire. Here's a photo of the agent with the gun, Preddy's gun, after leaving the fight. So he, it looks like he retrieved Preddy's gun and left the fight. And this is the video. The agent is involved in the tussle. He can then be seen Running away from the huddle with a gun in his hand. He briefly looks back when the gunfire rings out. Some have determined that this could have been an accidental discharge with Preddy's weapon. There are reports of this happening with this particular weapon multiple times, that apparently it's known to do this kind of thing, which is not great, not great in a firearm. Don't know if that's what happened here, but it's one of the possibilities that they're going to look into. President Trump did not initially weigh in on what happened, but he told the Wall Street Journal last night, quote, I don't like any shooting. I don't like it, but I don't like it when somebody goes into a protest and he's got a very powerful, fully loaded gun with two magazines loaded up with bullets also. That doesn't play good either, said the president. Fair take measured, actually. Unlike Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, who immediately went for the cameras claiming ICE is not law enforcement, and I guess Border Patrol, too. And Preddy was shot just trying to buy a donut.

[James O'Keefe]

This federal occupation of Minnesota long ago stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's a campaign of organized brutality against.

[James O'Keefe]

The people of our state. And today, that campaign claimed another life. Donald Trump, I call on you once again, remove this force from Minnesota. They are sowing chaos and violence.

[Andrew Branca]

We've seen deadly violence from federal agents.

[James O'Keefe]

Again and again and again.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I call on all Americans to.

[James O'Keefe]

See the decency that this state is exhibiting and the horrific cruelty, unprofessional.

[Andrew Branca]

Absolute abomination that is passing for what these ICE agents are doing on our streets.

[James O'Keefe]

And quit referring to these people as law enforcement. They are not law enforcement. You ask us for peace and we give it, and we get shot in the face on the streets coming out of a donut shop.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, I'm sorry, but that is so irresponsible. I know there's loose talk. Listen to podcasting. You're going to hear that. You're going to listen to, you know, cable news pundits. You're going to hear that he's the sitting governor of the state. He has an obligation to the citizenry to be more careful with his words. He truly does. And don't even get me started on Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, who I swear to God, if you wanted to get someone killed in Minneapolis, you wouldn't do anything differently from what they are doing, that the words that they have chosen are extremely insurrectiony. Bill Clinton looking at you in particular. But this is it's exploitation. There is no, trust me, there's no actual caring. They don't care. They're not actually upset at all about what happened to Alex. Pretty. They see no good crisis is wasted. Use every good crisis as an opportunity. That was Rahm Emanuel's words to Obama. They see an opportunity. They see an opportunity to finally make Democrats popular again, which they haven't been for over two years. They see an opportunity to make the Republicans look like the bad guys. And they know if they just keep amping up the things on the street corners of Minneapolis, there'll be another one. And they can just come out there and look forlorn, just so, so sad and exasperated. You saw how quickly they moved on from the little five year old boy with the sweet little dog hat. Oh, like, oh, what? They moved on real quick once it became very clear that the dad wasn't an asylum seeker. He was just a regular old illegal with a deportation order, removal order. And he ran. That's why he ran, leaving his five year old alone. And that's why his wife would not open the door for ICE authorities trying to give her her son. So the father had no choice once they caught him. Do you want us to give your son to somebody like your wife inside, or do you want to take them? And he said, I'll take him. That's what happened. Oh, they moved on right quick from that little boy, didn't they? Because their narrative, it's like darts at a board. And I bet they view Alex Preety, if you want to be pretty, whatever, honest about it, as a sacrificial lamb, as, like a soldier who did his duty, like he was martyred basically for the cause of proving how terrible Trump is. It's not even necessarily about immigration. It's proving how terrible Trump is so that Democrats can be restored to power. And the best way they want to be restored to power is by part one, which was opening the border and letting somewhere between 10 and 20 million illegals come into the country. Part two, having zero voter ID requirements at the ballot box on voting day so they can show up and they can vote and they can keep Democrats in office. I'm sorry, but this, like, Governor Walsh is out of control. So is his lieutenant governor. She's a sicko, that Peggy Flanagan. Something's really wrong with her. Kamala. Awful. The mayor. Terrible. This one's still Governor Walsh. I'm about to play with you where he compared ICE to Nazis. Great. That's our favorite thing. But for good measure, he brought in Anne Frank.

[James O'Keefe]

We have got children in Minnesota hiding.

[Megyn Kelly]

In their houses, afraid to go outside.

[Andrew Branca]

Many of us grew up reading that story of Anne Frank. Somebody's going to write that children's story about Minnesota. And there's one person who can end this now.

[Megyn Kelly]

I just want to tell you what the polling is to which I'm referring. Here's just one. Via Axios. Internal GOP polling, which alarmed some Trump insiders, was completed at the end of December. Days before Renee Goode was killed in Minneapolis. 60% of independent voters and 58% of undecided voters said Trump was too focused on deporting illegals. Again, this is a poll by Trump's team. 33% said Trump was primarily deporting law abiding people as opposed to criminals. So one third of the populace believes he's just going after law abiding people as opposed to criminals. I mean, that's shocking. New York Times. Do you think this is their poll? Do you think the tactics used by Immigration Customs Enforcement have gone too far? Not gone far enough or been about right too far? 61% overall, 61%. Only 26% say it's about right. 11% say not far enough. Democrats, 94% against the president. Independents, 71% against the president. Even Republicans, 19% against the president. Saying things have gone too far. That's how you get to 61% saying it's gone too far. I have to say, to be perfectly honest, I'm in the 11%. I just am. Like, I don't think they've gone far enough. Like, we've made very little progress in getting these illegals out of the United States. We've tried. They've tried so hard. God bless Tom Homan, he's a hero. But the numbers aren't great. We have so many more to get out. And like, I don't know, I think maybe what we needed to do right from the get go was send in, the way he did in la, the National Guard to protect these ICE agents so they could get in and get out faster. Without this kind of thing happening, there would have been a legal challenge and it probably would have been sustained if the National Guard's presence there hadn't been proven totally necessary. But we're there now. We're there now. I mean, he can send in the National Guard to protect ICE without invoking the insurrected insurrection. Will. Will he do it? I don't know. I mean, that's what happened in L. A, that's what he's doing in Chicago. Or trying ICE right now. I'm sorry? National Guard right now has been deployed by Governor Walsh. And we don't know what. Why. What exactly are they doing? We reported on an AM Update today. They're passing out coffee and donuts to people wearing different, like, reflective vests to try to make themselves look different from border enforcement. But, like, we cannot have a situation where the National Guard's on one side and the Border Protection and the ICE guys are on another side. That's a hard no. I don't know what Governor Wallace has up his sleeve on this, but he needs to be watched carefully. This morning there was some progress. Trump sending out a tweet. This is what it reads. Uh, hold on a second. That's Kristi Gnomes. I don't want that. I want this one. Okay. Donald Trump. I'm sending Tom Homan to Minnesota tonight. Wait, this is last night. I'm sending Tom home to Minnesota tonight. He's not been involved in that area, but knows and likes many of the people there. Tom is tough but fair and will report directly to me. Separately, a major investigation is going on with respect to the massive $20 billion plus welfare fraud. And he goes on from there about Illinois and others. And then this morning, Trump announced the following. Governor Tim Walls called me with the request to work together with respect to Minnesota. I mean, Trump had been asking him to do this for weeks. It was a very good call, and we actually seemed to be on a similar wavelength. I told Governor Walz that I would have Tom Homan call him and that what we are looking for are any and all criminals that they have in their possession. The governor very respectfully understood that, and I will be speaking to him in the near future. He was happy that Tom Holman was going to Minnesota, and so am I. We've had such tremendous success in Washington, D.C. in Memphis, Tennessee and New Orleans, Louisiana, and virtually every other place that we have touched. And even in Minnesota, crime is way down. But both Governor Wallace and I want to make it better. President Donald J. Trump. So we're looking for any and all criminals that they have in their possession. Okay? That's what we've been asking for for quite some time. The reason we don't get them is because it is a sanctuary state. Not officially, but by default. And Minneapolis is a sanctuary city, so they don't cooperate in handing over those criminals to the feds, even if there's an ICE detainer on them. So is Wallace ready to sacrifice the sanctuary state city policies? Great. That actually would be A W? We'll see. I think we all know Governor Walsh is very, very, very interested in distracting from his massive fraud scandal. And he has no real interest in stopping the bedlam that's on the streets of Minneapolis right now. One of the people who was right in the middle of it was our friend James o'. Keefe. He's the founder of Project Veritas and is now the CEO of o' Keeffe Media Group, cleverly referred to as omg. Before the cameras, before the ceremony, before history is made, every detail is chosen. From Amazon MGM Studios comes Melania. This new film takes you inside the 20 days leading up to the 2025 presidential inauguration through the eyes of the first lady herself. Where fashion is not just style, it's strategy. Witness the image defining decisions made behind closed doors. A celebration of duty and glamour. Melania. Only in theaters starting January 30th. James, welcome. You were in the thick of all this over the weekend. Tell us about your experience.

[James O'Keefe]

Hey, Megan. Yeah, I was actually in Minnesota for a different reason on Friday and Saturday morning. And I was in undercover journalism, doing some undercover journalism. And I was there when the shots were fired. Just absolute coincidence. So I walked over to the location in what appeared to be like the suburbs of Minnesota, a relatively nice neighborhood. People didn't understand that. What's so shocking to me is that this is not like a bad neighborhood. This is just a suburban place. And this is before the autonomous zone was formed. I don't know, about 11:12am I was walking. We parked our vehicle, got out of our vehicle. We did have undercover people in the mob, but what was striking to me is right when I parked my vehicle, as soon as I got out, it's negative 12 degrees, so every part of your skin is completely covered. They can't identify you. Immediately, five women who are white began interrogating me and asking me who I am, what my identity is. I've never experienced anything quite like this. I actually told him I was press. And they. They proceed. It was almost like they were going to do a citizen's arrest on me unless I identified myself, showed them my id. So I told them, you know, James, forgive me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, you guys have given us a couple of videos exclusive to you. People can check them out at your website. So we'll play a couple of them as you tell the story. And there is one of the moment I think you're referring to, where they're demanding you show your press badge in sat 9A. Here it is. Here's my press badge.

[Dave Aronberg]

If it's real.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just hand it to her.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah. No. Somewhere. No, no, it's right here.

[Andrew Branca]

Go.

[James O'Keefe]

Give it back.

[Andrew Branca]

These guys are not correct.

[Dave Aronberg]

I looked up.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, media. It's from Portugal.

[James O'Keefe]

They're not from Portugal.

[Megyn Kelly]

And none of their work is political at all. So keep going, James.

[James O'Keefe]

So I will tell the story about a sequence, but what happened there is. They started yelling, shame, shame, shame. And they. They. I mean, again, this is not yet even an autonomous zone. I'm somewhere a mile away from the shooting. They followed us to our car. They started throwing things at us. Now, remember, negative 12 degrees. A bottle of water will freeze in, like, 20, 30 seconds. And it's. And it's a weapon. And they started throwing objects at me and my security guard. In fact, they actually patted my security guard down. They are the authority. I've never experienced anything like this. I mean, if you. What are you gonna. If you have a gun, what are you gonna do, fire it at them? I mean, that's not gonna work. So they confiscated the weapon off of my marine Security detail followed us to our.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wait, a gun?

[James O'Keefe]

Well, he left his gun in the car, but he had, like, a knife or something on him. And they confiscated. They patted him down like they're the police now. The police in Minnesota have left. The police have left this area completely. So you're completely on your own. And I'm shaken. Meghan, you had me on to talk about my film Line in the Sand. I've. I've ambushed the cartel. They run away from me. They don't like the cameras. These people will kill you. I've never quite experienced, like. I guess I would call it communism up close. I've never experienced anything like this. So we go to the car, and they start throwing projectiles at us. Rocks, ice bottles, what appeared to be a knife. I'm still going through all the footage. I'm wearing a bulletproof vest. You saw it in the video. It was terrifying. And we have a couple clips we've given you. But I've never. I'm honestly a little bit shaken. I wouldn't say I'm scared, but I'm shaken. And I guess we'll unpack all this. But what struck me is how organized these people are. Every car.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hold up. Hold on. Hold the thought on the organization, because I do want to get into that. Let me show the audience a little bit of what you were subjected to. Let's hear 10A and 10B together. The crowd's following James now. Now you can see the projectile hit James in the Back.

[James O'Keefe]

They're everywhere. Shut the doors.

[Megyn Kelly]

Shut the door.

[James O'Keefe]

Shut the.

[Andrew Branca]

Shut the door.

[James O'Keefe]

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're pressed.

[James O'Keefe]

We're pressed.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know what the First Amendment is?

[James O'Keefe]

They threw a frozen ice. Ice brick at the car.

[Dave Aronberg]

Take off your vest again, quickly.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah, it's. It was. You know, it's pretty terrifying. And the reason why is because there's no one there to help. Like, there's no police. The police have stood down. I mean, you know, and you tell them they're pressed, we have more footage. They'll kill you. They don't care. Anybody who's not them is their enemy. If you are a journalist, you're a fed. And I was trying to reason with them, Megan. I was trying to, like, talk to them rationally. Like, I'm not here. I'm not taking a position for or against ice. I'm here to. I'm a reporter. They said they'll kill me. So that was kind of perhaps a glimpse into the future, I suppose, of what we're up against. There's more to the story here. I can tell you what happened next. We try to go back to our hotel, Megan. We're staying downtown. And the person at the hotel signals to one of them, and we then realized that we're in danger. We have to leave our hotel. So we go to a second hotel, and we've got someone.

[Megyn Kelly]

What. What do you mean? He signaled? He told them that you were staying there.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah, yeah. These people have spotters everywhere. They have spotters in every street corner. They have people working at the hotels. They somehow got. They. They got our license plate, rental car. They. The. My driver got a text message, a death threat from a burner number on his phone, which he posted it. I did. I did post that. The death threat. Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

It reads, we know you're in Minneapolis. You're with o' Keefe and his crew of Nazis. You're in a white Ford, license plate, and then you blocked it out from Florida. You have one hour to leave or you're dead. That was to your driver.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah, that. That was not to my cell phone. That was to the. The driver of the vehicle. Who rented the car. I don't. We don't know. We. I've had the FBI reach out to me. I've had the Attorney General of the United States actually DM'd me. Bondi DM'd me this morning, and we're trying to figure out if we can trace it, but that was not to my cell phone. That was to the driver of the car. Which I speculate they ran the tags and found out who rented the vehicle. And. And they. They followed us to the hotel. And usually I wrote in my. My tweet, there was my post that usually I'm able to lose a tail. Like, they give up. You just drive down the freeway. We go to a second hotel in a town called Waizata, Minnesota, which is kind of a rich suburban town on. On the lake where they do ice fishing. And a guy walks in, black block, looks like antifung. He just stares at me as I'm checking into the hotel. And I then realize I can't actually lose these people. I have to, like, leave the state of Minnesota. Do we drive to Chicago? Like, what are we going to do? And my team was honestly pretty, pretty, pretty scared. And that's when I went to the parking garage and posted a video of me reading the death threat. As we then proceed to go to our third location and try to just extract my team out of there because they feel like their lives are in danger.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. And your security team gets to the point where they realize they cannot keep you safe. And it's not just you. It's not just you, James. There was an extraordinary piece of tape out of Minneapolis. This is posted on the New York Post, but we found it on X originally where anti ICE protesters violently swarmed a Minneapolis hotel. They're big on swarming the hotels where they think press like you or ICE or border patrol are staying. They believe federal officers were staying there. They began hurling items quoting here from the New York Post at people inside smashing in windows, graffiti F U C K ICE across the building's facade. On Sunday, the large mob descended on the Home2 Suites by Hilton Hotel last Sunday. They shoved and hurled objects at a Minneapolis police department officer and others just inside the hotel's lobby and attempted to push their way in. We're showing some video of it now, forcing those inside to use two large vending machines to physically block the rowdy demonstrators. We're all locals. It's all locals. One man shouted as he tried to ward off the protesters. And then we see this piece of tape with a federal agent who's been guarding the hotel. Come out and scream. Not scream, but, like, yell with the people. Stand at the people standing there. Where is the local PD let's listen to it. Stop. 12. Is everyone pressed over?

[Dave Aronberg]

We're all members of the press.

[James O'Keefe]

We're all pressed here.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. This officer appears. Oh, my God.

[James O'Keefe]

Are you okay?

[Dave Aronberg]

I'm fine.

[Megyn Kelly]

Are you okay?

[James O'Keefe]

I'm fine.

[Megyn Kelly]

Where's the local P. That's my question for the press. Okay.

[James O'Keefe]

Where is the local P.D.

[Megyn Kelly]

What'S your message to the local P.D.

[James O'Keefe]

Sir? No.

[Andrew Branca]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

What about the mayor?

[Andrew Branca]

Very chaotic.

[James O'Keefe]

Sir.

[Dave Aronberg]

While you're giving messages, what would your message to the protesters that want you out be?

[James O'Keefe]

As long as.

[Megyn Kelly]

This guy is bloodied from the nose and the mouth. James. And asking, you know, basically, where the hell is the backup? This is a federal.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah, I mean, there's no incentive. The incentives are not aligned. You can't hold them accountable. You can't defend yourself. You can't shoot back. You can't fight back. You know, they. You can use mace or something, or spray, but if you did that as you're being attacked, they'll. They'll use force against you. They'll. They'll. They'll kill you. And so the only thing that.

[Megyn Kelly]

The numbers are just too great.

[James O'Keefe]

The only thing that we could do. And, And I. And I was. You know, I don't. I'm not a very fearful person, but I recognize when I'm in danger. There's a difference between fear and dangers. The only thing you can do is just walk away and not engage them. That's what I had to do in that moment. As they're throwing projectiles. Just walk, don't. Don't pass go. Do not collect $200, not look back at them, actually, and just get the hell out of there. But you realize there's nowhere for you to retreat to. And my assumption is these police officers aren't going to do anything because they don't end up like Derek Chauvin. They don't want to be in prison for the rest of their lives or in front of a jury that'll convict them. So I think you have to experience this. Megan, you're a reporter. I'm on the front lines every week. I think you have to experience this for yourself to fully understand what you're dealing with. I think this is a continuation of 2020 at play. We paused it. We now are playing it, and it's moving, progressing into the future.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's.

[James O'Keefe]

It's crazy.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're going to pause and then come back with you, James, but it's very important to keep this in mind because this is what James got as a reporter. Imagine what the actual Border Patrol and ICE officers are getting daily before they walk into a confrontation with a guy like Alex Preddy. More with James when we come back. And then our legal panel. A new year means new financial goals, like making sure your savings are secure. And diversified. Will this be the year you decide to talk to someone from Birch Gold Group? They use an educational approach with a deep understanding of macroeconomics. There are forces pushing the dollar lower and gold higher, which is why they believe every American should own physical gold. So until January 30th if you're a first time gold buyer, Birchgold is offering a rebate of up to 10 grand on qualifying purchases. To claim eligibility and start the process, just text MK to the number 989898. Birch Gold can help you roll an existing IRA or 401 into an IRA and Gold and you are still eligible for a rebate of up to $10,000. Consider making right now your first time to buy gold and take advantage of a rebate up to 10,000 bucks when you buy by January 30th. Text MK to the number 989898. Claim your eligibility today. Again, just text MK to the number 989895. If you your parent or spouse served in the military, you could join our family. Our members saved an average of $70 a month on auto insurance when they switched. Tap the banner or visit usaa.com join today to check your eligibility restrictions apply.

[James O'Keefe]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Back with me now, James o', Keefe, CEO of o' Keeffe Media Group. And I know one of the pieces of your reporting, James, and it matches the reporting of Cam Higby who's been on the ground there, and Azra Nomani who's been posting for Fox, that there are these like very well attended, for lack of a better word, signal chats where immense planning takes place and they're very well coordinated. And it's the network by which they. I mean, this is the real signal gate. Pete Hegseth got in trouble for using signal for comms with some of his top emissaries. This is like planned lawlessness on the streets of Minneapolis via signal.

[James O'Keefe]

Yeah, they're very. They're. As I said to you, when I got on your show and I've got the Cam Higby report, he was on the ground with me. He's done an unbelievable, exceptional reporting. He got access to these signal chats moments ago as I was on the show with you. Shows protesters organizing. And I am shocked and amazed at how organized they are. I've never seen anything like this. Every vehicle downtown, they're able to track, run the plates, confirm who they are, get their id like they did in my case. They ran my license plate. We're trying to figure out how they're able to do that, where they have someone on the inside of a rental car company, et cetera, and communicate with each other about it. And when I got out of my vehicle, this is like 11:30 in the morning, just after the shooting and before the autonomous zone. Within seconds, there were five of them standing outside of a relatively inconspicuous vehicle, interrogating me, asking to see my identification. So I gotta give them credit, Megan. I've never seen anything in my life. I don't think any of us have ever seen a group of people more organized. And I warn people because people are tempted to say, well, this is funded. And honestly, Meghan, what I think and what I believe to be true is there isn't some one boogeyman who funding all of this. It's a loose network of NGOs, some of which indirectly get funds from our government. But they. People actually really believe in their cause. And it's a cause that it appears to me that they're willing to live and die for, which is, I think, more terrifying than. Than one guy funding them in a transactional way.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mm. You mentioned just how. How violent they were and how you felt definitely under threat and potentially like your life was in danger. That tracks with what we've been seeing. This is just one, but we could spend all day playing them. This is an ANTIFA member whose name is Kyle Wagner, who's making his threats explicit. Again. This is like a day ending. And why. There are so many of these on the Internet, but this one came to our attention, and we're gonna show you why. Sat 22. My name is Kyle.

[Andrew Branca]

I'm Antifa.

[Dave Aronberg]

And there's so much rage in me.

[Megyn Kelly]

That I've had to record this like 15 times trying to get the message out. It's time to suit up, show up ready to go. Okay, no, no, not talking about peaceful protests anymore.

[Dave Aronberg]

We're not talking about having polite conversations anymore.

[Megyn Kelly]

I am talking specifically to my fucking followers. This is everything I have fucking talked about. And this is exactly what I said.

[Andrew Branca]

Was going to happen.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is exactly what I said was going to come when we didn't go.

[Andrew Branca]

And march on Whipple with guns.

[Megyn Kelly]

Sorry, but welcome to America 2026 where.

[Dave Aronberg]

Second Amendment is the only thing that's.

[Andrew Branca]

Going to keep you fucking protected from.

[Megyn Kelly]

Literal fucking Nazi gunmen that are killing.

[Dave Aronberg]

Innocent people in the street with impunity.

[Andrew Branca]

Get your fucking guns and stop these fucking people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, so Kyle doesn't always look like such a tough guy. We pulled his social media. He's got an Instagram account with over a hundred thousand followers. And, and this is how Kyle normally appears on it. Yeah, he's I guess transvestite. He's appears to be wearing women's garb, a women's wig. I can't even like. Yeah like rainbow, long haired. There's obviously something deeply wrong with Kyle. I think we can all agree on that. Yeah, there's he's with, in like women's high boots with high heels showing off his rear end. Kyle, to be honest, these photos are more terrifying than your I'm a tough guy video. Was like, you want to prove me that there's something wrong with you? You should show me those pictures. You didn't have to go through all the theatrics of trying to sound so tough. And you're gonna get your guns in the second amendment. Welcome to the second amendment. Loving, by the way, it's great to have you here. Go ahead, James.

[James O'Keefe]

Well, irrationality can be the most dangerous thing. And I witnessed know it's like witnessing communism where there's no rule of law, there's no logic. It's, it's, it's dangerous. And those are the types of people that some say killed Charlie Kirk. So it's, it's, it's, it's dangerous. I mean as I sit here, Megan, with you, I'm getting death threats constantly and I intend to name every single one of these people.

[Megyn Kelly]

But you do?

[James O'Keefe]

I do. I mean I'm working on it right now doing the open source intelligence, trying to name the DMS are coming in, you know, threatening my life.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why? Like I have to say I, I never name my threateners, I just never do it. I just like they want infamy Most of them just want attention. They don't actually want, it's a fair.

[James O'Keefe]

Point, but I think sunlight is the best disinfectant. And I think the only thing that these people actually fear is exposure itself. They certainly don't fear accountability. There's, there's no, no one's been arrested. And the reason, no one, no Megan.

[Megyn Kelly]

Even the three church disturbers who went into the city's church last Sunday, not yesterday, but last Sunday are already back out. Like they, I want to talk to.

[James O'Keefe]

You about, I want to talk to you about this. This is, I have only a few words to say about it, but every one of your audience members is all thinking the exact same thing is why isn't anybody arrested? And I think the reason why is, is because there's no money in holding people accountable. There's no money in it. There's a lot of money in corruption, there's a lot of money in fraud. And, and I've said this publicly and I mean I am dead serious. And I, and I, and I will do this. If the prosecutors do not arrest the people, then I'm going to hold the prosecutors accountable. I'm going to do investigative journalism.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're talking about Minnesota. Minnesota.

[James O'Keefe]

I'm talking about federally state everything.

[Megyn Kelly]

In other words, the feds are bending over backwards right now to arrest those people who went into that church. They're being stymied at every level that, that's in the news today. They went into the magistrate judge, he said no for everybody but three. Then they tried, now we know Harmet was on the show on Friday. They tried to go to the chief district judge to overrule that guy. He said no, just go to a grand jury and get, get a, an indictment the old fashioned way, one we are told is beginning tomorrow. Tuesday. They said no, we want this before Sunday so no more masses are dis or services are disrupted. So they tried to go up to the 8th Circuit and the 8th Circuit. Three judge panel, two of whom were Trump appointees, said no, there's nothing so extraordinary happening that you require this quick relief. They weren't real persuaded by the fact that they had to have all these arrests made before Sunday. But just to have the DOJ do all of that, James, is extraordinary. So they are trying. It's just a lot harder, especially at the federal level to bring and they.

[James O'Keefe]

Don'T have enough prosecutors and good lawyers at the DOJ probably that can be trusted. But this is, this is a different level now when, and I've, and I've had The Attorney General. And I've had them reach out to me this morning, trying to get the identity of the people, and I hope they mean well. But generally speaking, no one's been arrested. Nobody. I mean, I've been arrested, Megan. As you know, the FBI's rated me. Yes, the FBI raided my news. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Harmeet was your lawyer, so they didn't.

[James O'Keefe]

Have any trouble arresting.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, that's why it's so crazy. What do you make of that, James? Because it's like James o' Keefe has a conversation with someone who has stolen Ashley Biden's diary about possibly paying her for it and possibly printing it. But James o' Keefe decides I'm not going to do that. And then James o' Keefe gets the FBI at his home at five in the morning, along with several employees who get the same treatment as the FBI, raids you, and conveniently just. I mean, it's a miracle. I don't know how they did it, but somehow the New York Times figured out it was going to happen and published two minutes later. But Don Lemonade physically goes into a church, terrorizing all of these civilians, just trying to observe a woman so scared. We just read the police affidavit on her running out of the church. She. She broke her arm. Now they're talking about the terror that the children were feeling. And neither Don nor several of the others who weren't the ringleaders can. Can get indicted, can get an arrest warrant issued against them. For some reason, these federal judges out in Minnesota want to protect them. No one. No one wanted to protect you other than Harmeet.

[James O'Keefe]

I understand the dynamics, Meghan, and it's a. It's a. It's a serious problem. It's. It's gotten to the point where the lack of arrests is the story. And I actually think it's not just, you know, Megan, you know, what you're talking about in Minnesota. I think it's something more. I think that the people in charge have to have the will and the courage to hold them accountable. Accountability, like leadership, is a liability. Let me give you a more specific example. I get sued once a month, Megan, once a month for reporting what people say, for exercising my First Amendment rights. If I just talk and not do investigative journalism, I probably wouldn't get sued. But I get sued because I hold people accountable, and therefore it becomes a liability for me. In other words, it's very expensive. I have to raise millions of dollars. It's hard. So I don't think it's just that there's these obstacles, I think that the people in charge, the people in Washington, have to have the balls and the will to expose themselves to liability and to threats. And they have to say, I don't care. I'm gonna do it anyway. And that's where we are right now. And if there are threats against them and if they are being bribed, I will expose that. I will show that to the community.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you get more specific? Because, like, what Harmeet has done in the church protest, I don't.

[James O'Keefe]

I'm not talking about Harmeet specifically. I'm talking about other.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. So you're going beyond that.

[James O'Keefe]

I'm talking about other reporting. Yeah. As you know, I have undercover people in Washington and elsewhere, and people tell me things, and people inside the FBI tell me things, and they say the reasons why we're not. We're not arresting people. And what I'm saying is that I think it might be time for me to bring that to the American people. Because as a reporter, Megan, you know, you have to balance the relationships you have with these people. You probably have a relationship with Harmony. I don't know. But I'm assuming you do. Your relationships with the rapport you build with your sources. And also, guys, I'm going to have to put you on blast. Like, it's time to show the world the way it is. And I'm just saying that.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think I will say for the record, it's been very interesting to me because I have more friends in this administration than I've ever had in an administration. And some understand that I do have a day job. And like, I. If they do something that's controversial, I'm going to report on it. And they may not like it, and they take it like big boys and girls, and some come crying like little babies.

[James O'Keefe]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Honestly, some are so pathetic in their. Like that we were friends, Right? Okay. You join the government, you're fair game if you want to end the friendship. Because I've reported on the controversy surrounding you. That's up to you. But, yeah, there's a vast disparity, I would say, between how some respond and how others respond.

[James O'Keefe]

There's definitely a tension there. There's definitely a tension there. But I think we reached a boiling point, and I think the public has a right to know at this point. And by the way, there's some. I'm going to just be clear to your audience. I have relationships with some of these people. There are some really good people in government. There are some good people trying to do the right thing. But it's the nature of. It's the nature of institutions and bureaucracies. It's very hard to lead when you're in a bureaucracy. Individuals can. Like Nick Shirley. He's an individual. He can take enormous risks. I think it's challenging for a bureaucracy to take those risks. But stay tuned.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, we will. James o', Keefe, thank you. It's great to see you, my friend.

[James O'Keefe]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, we'll see you soon. We're going to bring in our legal panel in a minute, but I just want to give you guys an update on what happened with that. The push. Now, we've seen the affidavit in support of arresting more people inside of that church. Not the people, but the protesters. It's stunning. Okay, it's stunning. It's not going well for the government right now, but again, this grand jury starts tomorrow, we're told. And so almost certainly they're going to go before that grand jury and try to get these charges. You know, will they succeed with a Minneapolis. It's still Minneapolis. Grand jurors, they tend to do a little better in federal court, so we'll see. But there's absolutely no guarantee. Look what happened in Washington, D.C. they wouldn't indict that guy. It was on tape, him throwing that subway and hitting the cop with it. They didn't care. So it's possible that politics could overrule justice in front of the grand jury. But I just want to tell you what has come out. All right? First, we had Magistrate Judge Douglas Miko saying prosecutors failed to present evidence to justify these arrests that it was seeking. Among those rejected were the warrants for Don Lemon, one of his producers, and some others. Mickow did authorize arrest warrants for three people who were described as the leaders. And those people were arrested last week. And we brought that to you. You remember them? Nakima, I think it was Chantel and that William Kelly. They were all arrested, but there were several others that they tried to get and didn't. The Trump administration then went up above Micko's head to the chief District Judge Patrick Schultz. Schiltz, gotta be careful with that name. Declined to take immediate action. He said, it's unprecedented for you to, like, run to me. Just go to a grand jury or improve your warrant that the magistrate didn't find persuasive. Like, why are you running above his head? Was that judge's reaction. Then the DOJ went to the 8th Circuit asking that court to issue a writ of mandamus to force Schiltz Schiltz, to grant the government's request. On Friday, the three judge panel said, no, we're not doing that. As I told you, one Obama appointee, two Trump appointees, basically everybody said there's no rush. You can present this case to a grand jury and seek an indictment, or you can improve your affidavit and submit it back to that magistrate judge. But the actual, like facts that were in the underlying affidavit about what happened inside of that courthouse, sorry, church house. Were stunning. It's much worse than we realized and we knew it was bad. Well, listen to this. This is an affidavit from Timothy Gerber, special agent with the Department of Homeland Security, ICE and Homeland Security Investigations. This is when you try to go get, you drop a criminal complaint. It has to be supported by something and they support it with the affidavit of a federal law enforcement officer saying, this is what I've gathered. This is why you should issue a criminal warrant. Worked for those three, but not the others. Affidavit submitted for purposes of establishing probable cause, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so it was those three plus five redacted names and other currently unknown persons for conspiracy against rights. That's the Klan act and the Face Act. Those are the two laws. We discussed them last week. He says they disrupted the religious services and intimidated, harassed, oppressed and terrorized the parishioners, including young, young children. They caused the service to be cut short. They forced the parishioners to flee the church, outside of a side door, out of a side door, resulting in one female victim falling and suffering an injury. They later reveal she broke her arm. Some of the protesters also physically obstructed some parishioners as they attempted to leave the church and the adjacent parking areas. Back to victim two. She broke her arm. She slipped and broke it when she came out the door and was running. Victim 2 advised the police that they were terrorized. Our children were weeping. College students and young women were sobbing. It was impactful and it will take time to work through. Victims 4 and 5 were interviewed. They were members of City Church for at least four years. They noticed that the church was unusually full and a group of unfamiliar individuals seated together toward the rear of the church. Approximately 50 members of the congregation were stuck toward the front of the church. After the Protest began. Victim 4 informed the agents that the aisles, which are already narrow to begin with, got more so as the agitators who occupied the center of the sanctuary made it nearly impossible for the parishioners to get out and leave all this is important. Remember we talked with Dave about physical obstruction under the Face act and what it means if you physically obstruct a woman's walk into the abortion clinic, you're going to get charged under the Face Act. If you physically obstruct someone's ability to leave their place of worship, which you're terrorizing, you can get charged under the Face Act. So this is what he's trying to establish here made it nearly impossible for parishioners to get out and leave. Victim 5 later expressed fear that the agitators may have guns underneath their jackets. Don't forget threats or intimidation. That's what you also need to show under threats, intimidation, physical obstruction at a place of worship. So all of these are going into Face act violations. And they also will play under the Clan act, too. Let's see that they were shouting. And listen to this. They feared that the agitators may have guns underneath their jackets. When the agitators began shouting, all the parishioners could hear was, shoot. We've talked about this. Hands up. Don't shoot. What makes them think that anybody who wasn't an adult in 2015 when Ferguson happened, would know what that reference is? And not everybody, even who did know the reference could hear the whole thing because it was loud in there with that ridiculous Nakima yelling at the pastor. And then eventually he yelled shame back at her. Victim 4 informed the agents members of their parish attempted to retrieve their children from the child care area located downstairs. You know how we put the Littles downstairs sometimes? And the agitators were blocking the staircase. The parents were unable to get to their children. Victim 4 recalled one agitator was threatening, aggressive and intimidating toward the parishioners. Additionally, this agitator was screaming and getting in people's faces to include women and young children. This agitator continued to scream in the faces of the young children while they were crying. It's got to be William Kelly. We've seen that. Victim six was joined by his wife. Victim two and their other children recalled an African American woman yelling, excuse me, Pastor. Excuse me, do you know you're harboring ICE agent Victim one. So that that one pastor, I assume, who they thought was ice. Let's see. Recall people shouting, running, children crying, people singing and praying. Victim 6 recalled Kelly screaming Nazi in people's faces. In addition to confronting children saying, do you know your parents are Nazis? They're going to burn in hell. Threatening, you think? And they've got it all here. Victim 6 later stated protesters followed and surrounded them in their car as they were trying to leave, but would not let them leave. They were afraid. Victim 6 informed agents that their face is on the website. They're afraid people will try and come to their house at night. Victim six recalled his child stating to him, daddy, I thought you were going to die. Victim 6 ended the interview and acknowledged that his children are traumatized. That's probable cause, folks. And it's not going to stop at the three who are arrested, at least not if this DOJ keeps its foot on that pedal. And if we have activist judges or grand jurors who don't allow it, then we're going to have to see what happens next because they can't get away with this. A woman's got a broken bone. You've got children who are traumatized. You got adults who are traumatized. You got a physical taking over of a place of worship, not allowing people to leave, separating people from their children who are downstairs in the sanctuary. This is. This is worth fighting over. It's worth going to the chief judge and then going to the 8th Circuit and then going to the grand jury and doing everything within your power to make sure everyone involved is brought to justice. Now, up next, a legal debate with the guy when it comes to guns and shooting. We had Andrew Branka on this podcast many times during the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, and he understands the law around this like nobody. He's very strong. And we brought back Dave Aronberg, who does have a different opinion on the latest shooting. And we're gonna have a fair and balanced debate next. These are not the meat sticks you grew up with. This is Paleo Valley. All right, now I gotta tell you something. These are 100% grass fed fed beef from small scale regenerative American family farms. Beef sticks. 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And the flavors original Jalapeno, summer sausage, Teriyaki and more. Over 55 million sticks sold backed by a 60 day money back guarantee support small American farms and regenerative agriculture. With Paleo Valley you are not just snacking, you are making a statement. Right now you can get 20% off your first [e-mail] with code Megan. Let's talk about All Family Pharmacy. They do what pharmacies are supposed to do, just better. They get people the medications they need fast and at a fair price. When you do not want to wait in line or deal with insurance headaches and you want your medications delivered straight to your home, All Family Pharmacy makes it simple. When everyone around you is getting sick and you want to be prepared instead of reactive, consider All Family Pharmacy. And when your doctor refuses to prescribe medications like Ivermectin even after you've done your research, All Family Pharmacy gives you another option. They have got antibiotics, antivirals, Tamiflu, Ivermectin, blood pressure medications and a lot more. You order online, a licensed doctor reviews your request and your medications ship straight to your door. It's that simple. Be prepared for the year ahead. Visit allfamilypharmacy.com Megan. You use the code Megan10 to save 10% on your next order. That's allfamilypharmacy.com megan code megan10 to save 10% hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well Deck upgrades done well Electrical upgrades done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years. So we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality [e-mail] Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com relax as AI does the manual work while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform so flexible and intuitive it feels.

[James O'Keefe]

Like it was built just for you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Notice.

[James O'Keefe]

You're limitless. Limitless.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com, start for free and finally breathe. Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM, it's called the Megyn Kelly Channel and it is where you will get hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the Sirius XM app. There are so many legal angles to break down on what's going on in Minnesota. And most importantly, were the federal officers justified in using deadly force Saturday against Alex Preddy? Here to debate the issue is Andrew Branca, an attorney who is a self defense law expert as well as the host of the Andrew Branka Show. And our pal Dave Aronberg, who's an MK True crime host is also with us today. He's a lawyer, former Palm Beach County State's attorney as well. Guys, welcome back to the show. So I'll kick it off with this. Andrew RealClearPolitics saying that in their 25 years, you know, as an entity, they have never seen an example where the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Washington Post all agreed in their top editorial which was to call on ICE to settle down and to potentially de escalate in Minnesota. I don't happen to agree with that. I know according to the polls I'm in the minority. But it is events like what happened with Alex Preddy that have led to that. And so your position that this was what? I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth that it was a valid shooting, that it was a quote, good shooting. How would you put it?

[Andrew Branca]

Yeah, it was a legally justified use of defensive force. I mean whether I should de escalate, that's a political question, right? That's not my area of expertise. But whether this particular shooting was justified or not, the legal question is did the officers who fired the shot have a reasonable perception that Preddy was presenting as an imminent unlawful threat of deadly force harm? And a prosecutor would have to disprove that beyond any reasonable doubt. And what facts do we have here? We have the ICE officers observing Preddy committing a violent felony on another ICE officer. He's non compliant with the rights.

[Megyn Kelly]

What specifically?

[Andrew Branca]

Well, when he lays hands on the first ICE officer, that's a federal felony. That's good for eight years and four federal prison. He doesn't have to cause injury, he just has to make Contact and it's an eight year federal felony. So he's just committed a violent forcible felony on an ICE officer. They go to make his arrest, he's not compliant. They hear shouts of gun, gun, gun. Then the non compliant Preddy brings his hand into view with an object in his hand that's going to get you shot in that kind of tumultuous, chaotic fracas about 99 times out of 100, because the officers keep in mind they don't have to be correct in their perception of a threat. They have to have a reasonable perception. That doesn't mean correct, that doesn't mean optimal, that doesn't mean best case. It means reasoned. They were applying their powers of reason to the things they were seeing presented to them in the totality of the circumstances. They're not required to make perfect decisions in self defense. They're required to make reasonable decisions in self defense. And again, a prosecutor would have to disprove that beyond any reasonable doubt. The only person responsible for the death of Alex Preddy is Alex Preddy.

[Megyn Kelly]

Dave, do you agree with Andrew's statement of the law? I know you disagree with the application of it, but the statement of the law, does he have it right?

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, under the Graham vs Connor decision by the Supreme Court, Megan, Andrew is right. The officer's perception doesn't have to be correct. It just has to be reasonable. At the time, this was a split second decision, but the decision says it has to be objectively reasonable, not subjectively. So was it objectively reasonable that they started shooting, shooting 10 times in five seconds? Was this guy a legitimate threat when he had seven officers on top of him and the gun had been removed by that point? I mean, perhaps the officers had a mistake of fact where they thought that the gunshot they heard was from the person who was lying face down and they made a mistake. But was it reasonable for them to make that mistake? So I would disagree not on the standard he's using, but on the facts. It looks like to me that the victim here, Mr. Preddy, was not a threat. The officer saw he had a phone in his hand. The gun was not brandished. And that is something that contradicts what Kristi Noem said. He never brandished the gun. He had the gun legally. And so I think there's a legitimate case we made. I would agree with Andrew that any, any case by a prosecutor in this area, and I prosecuted one of these cases in my office against an officer, we got a conviction, but they are very hard to do. It's Hard to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt unanimously to convict an officer. But I do think you can take this case at the grand jury and get an indictment.

[Megyn Kelly]

Would you do it, Dave, if you were still. If you were the DA in this county, would you do it?

[Dave Aronberg]

I would. I would. Now, the federal government normally would cooperate with the state. Instead, they're going to try to conceal the evidence. And so the state may have to go it alone. But I would. I think you have enough with the videos and witness testimony that you can get an indictment here. Whether you can get a conviction. It will go to federal court. This case will be removed to federal court, and then the question is, will the federal judge grant the officer immunity? That's a big question. If he does not, then it's game on and you can try him. But it's tough to get 12 jurors throughout the entire state of Minnesota. This is not just Hennepin county jurors. These are conservative jurors. And to get them all to agree to see it one way, that is a challenge for.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're talking about in federal court. The grand jurors or the actual jurors, the petite jurors. The 12.

[Andrew Branca]

Correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

Would. Would come from all over the state.

[Dave Aronberg]

Correct. It's much easier to get an indictment by a grand jury, but the actual jury, because this case will be removed if it does go to trial, to federal court, will come from all across the state, rather than just blue Hennepin County.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mm. Okay. So what's your reaction to that, Andrew James Dave's statement?

[Andrew Branca]

Well, I mean, of course, reasonable people can disagree on what they see when they observe the facts. Right. Facts become a matter of opinion. That's why we have juries as the fact finders in trials. I don't know if it's quite true to say that the officer saw a phone in his hand. In other words, that the officer knew it was only a phone. If we assume facts like, well, the officers knew he was disarmed and harmless and not a threat to them and they shot him anyway, well, then obviously, that would be an easy conviction. I suspect if we asked the officer, he wouldn't say, I knew it was a phone in his hand. I saw an object in his hand that I perceived as a weapon, is what I would expect them to say. In terms of prosecution of these. Of this officer and the officer who shot Renee Goode, I think the real risk to them is not immediate prosecution. I think if this goes to federal court, it gets dismissed under the supremacy clause. I think the risk to these officers is that Minnesota does not prosecute them, that Minnesota just waits out this administration hopes a Democrat administration comes in next and they have a Democrat Department of Justice that's not interested in defending these, these officers in federal court and would allow a state prosecution to go forward. Remember, there's no statute of limitations on murder. So Minnesota can just wait out this administration if whoever the next one is, if President Tim Walls is elected to the White House next time and has his own Department of Justice, he could just tell them, listen, I don't want you to try to get this case dismissed in federal court. I want the state prosecution and go forward. And then we're going to have another Derek Chauvin type of trial.

[Megyn Kelly]

Because while Trump could give these officers immunity with a pardon from federal charges he cannot prevent, he can't protect them against state charges down the line.

[Andrew Branca]

That's correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's scary. That actually is really scary. I mean, maybe that's one of the reasons why you're seeing some of the divide that's in the news today between Homan, Tom Homan and Kristi Noem, which is being reported everywhere. But this isn't like just left wing press saying, oh, they hate each other. It's like Fox News and the Journal and the New York Post reporting on how there's a rift between Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski on the one hand and Tom Homan and I think, is it the ICE chief or the Border Patrol chief on the other? And they, Homan doesn't want to be doing immigration enforcement this way. And reportedly Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski do like they, they were fine with, shall I say, more showy arrests and greater sort of in your face presence. And I think Homan, who's been doing this a long time and actually received an award from Barack Obama for how he did it, didn't quite approve of the way this is going. And now we get the announcement last night that Homan is going to Minnesota and he's taking over. And then you see a tweet from Kristi Noem this morning saying, this is great, I approve of this. Which is okay, all right. Now everybody's going to spin it however they want to spin it. But I think it is a good thing. Homan's going, Andrew, let me ask you about this. So 10 times in five seconds, Dave points out they fired. And I know we just talked about this with the Renee Good shooting that the Supreme Court has said the first shot was justified. So were the remaining shots and there. There'd have to be something to change it if they were going to. If that ruling didn't hold, like a pause. Some of the cases where they've said okay, actually shots two through ten were not okay. There was an intervening pause, like where they assessed the situation. It was clear the person was dead or hurting, and they kept going. But that's not. Do you see that as this case?

[Andrew Branca]

No, I don't. The only pauses, I think, were really between the first shot and then a series of three shots. And then you get the popcorn effect of shooting. It's not at all uncommon to get a lot of shots on a suspect when you have a lot of police officers. None of the police officers are emptying their magazines necessarily. Necessarily. But if you have a number of officers shooting and they each shoot two or three rounds, which is generally reasonable, pistol bullets are not very effective. They're trained to shoot more than once. If you have three or four officers shooting three rounds each, pretty soon you get 10, 12, 15 rounds that have been fired. But it's all being fired in the same compressed time frame in which it's not yet clear that the threat they're legally privileged to neutralize has been neutralized. Once that's apparent, then they have to make the decision to stop using force. They're no longer privileged to do that. That's where the pause comes in. Right. If there's a pause and it's apparent the person's no longer a threat and you use force again, that successive use of force would not be legally justified. But I just don't see that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here, let me play the sound bite again where you can hear all of the shots. Again, apologies for the very annoying whistles blowing, but here it is. The is wrong with you. Honest. The fuck did you just do? What the fuck did you just do? What the fuck? I don't see that, Dave, as being enough of any sort of pause to change the default rule, which is the Supreme Court does not care how many times the cops shoot. If the first shot is okay, the rest are too.

[Dave Aronberg]

Megan, I did hear some pauses in there, and I think those pauses are where prosecutors can use it. I agree with you that I don't think this is the strongest argument to convict the cops, to say that they should have just shot once and not 10 times. But it is an argument because once a suspect is incapacitated or the threat is removed, that the justification for deadly force ends and the continued firing into a motionless body. It's tough to reconcile with any reasonable mistake of Fact. But I think the stronger argument actually for the prosecutors is just that, number one, at no point during that video did Pretti draw the weapon, pointed, place his hand on the holster. And so if you want to say it's a mistake by the officers. Well, only if the suspect's movements are consistent with that action, like drawing or brandishing. Here he was sprayed pepper spray, tackled, and they were on top of him. And now also, the agent who shot Preddy was standing next to the agent in the gray jacket who had just removed the gun. And in training, in a team based enforcement action, the officers are trained to maintain this situational awareness, like 360 degrees. The officer who shot him was standing next to the guy who pulled away the gun. So I think all these give grist.

[Megyn Kelly]

That'S requiring the one officer to have noticed that the other officer got the gun away from the suspect. It all happened so quickly. I did not hear the officer who pulled the gun away from Preddy say, I've gotten, I've retrieved the gun. You know, like we hear gun, gun, gun. We don't know specifically what was correct.

[Dave Aronberg]

And he should have said that. But yes, that is a fair point. But also there's. My main point is that there's nothing there that would give cause for the officers to reasonably believe that this guy was a threat. The gun that he had was concealed.

[Megyn Kelly]

What about somebody yelling gun, gun, gun, which, which could, I mean, maybe that was the wrong thing to yell, to be honest. I don't know, because I, My perception is. This is just my perception. This may all change after the investigation. They heard that and they, they assumed wielding, that the suspect was wielding.

[Dave Aronberg]

But you could see his hands. The guy was on his knees in front of you could see his hands. His hands had the same cell phone he had the entire time. That's the thing that I can't reconcile that because someone mistakenly yells gun, you start shooting. That's not what you're supposed to do. So that's my issue here.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you make of that, Andrew?

[Andrew Branca]

Well, again, we don't know that the officer knew it was a cell phone in his hand. You hear gun, gun, gun. A gunshot goes off. There's an object in the suspect's hand, and the officers are allowed to rely on the actions of the other officers. Presumptively reasonable. So when one officer shoots the other officers, you hear gun, gun, gun, a gunshot, there's an object in the guy's hand. One officer shooting, presumably because he reasonably perceives an eminent unlawful threat of death or serious Bodily injury. The other officers are allowed to rely on that perception. So they're going to shoot, too. Again, they don't have to be making perfect decisions or even good decisions. They just have to be reasoned decisions. And a prosecutor would have to disprove that position beyond any reasonable doubt. I think there's more than enough evidence here to build a narrative that there's at least a reasonable doubt that these officers had that reasonable perception.

[Megyn Kelly]

The couple things. There is a report now on this gun, which was a sig Sauer P329 millimeter, that this model, according to Rob Dobar, a lawyer for the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, who believes that this gun likely went off after the agent grabbed it and said he thinks it's highly likely the first shot was a negligent discharge from the agent in the gray jacket. There is a report that this model, widely carried by armed civilians and US law enforcement, has been the subject of more than 100 allegations that it has a defect that allows it to fire uncommanded. This is the, this is the Alec Baldwin argument, Andrew. Right? Like, I didn't pull the trigger. No, no, no, no, no. I never pulled the trigger. The gun just went off. But that this somehow went off uncommanded. And, you know, if that's what happened, then, my God, this is a true, true tragedy because somebody yelled gun. The gun was retrieved, it went off uncommanded, and then the other officers thought a gun had been fired, which would probably lead most cops to start firing themselves.

[Andrew Branca]

Yeah, that could readily be the case. I mean, this gun has that reputation. I don't know if it's true or not, I want to make clear, but the gun has a reputation for uncommanded discharges. The truth is, if a car had backfired and it sounded like a gunshot, the officers would have been privileged to react as if there were a gunshot. If that was a reasonable perception on this part. This was, in fact, apparently a gun going off very close. Guns are extremely loud. It actually hurts your ears when the gun goes off within a few feet of you if you don't have hearing protection on. So it's a shocking, disruptive kind of event. That's why you see all the officers jump, create distance. That's training as well. You're supposed to get away from what you think the weapon may be as quickly as possible. It could be just a complete tragedy in that the gun just went off by itself. And that's what triggered, made reasonable the officer's perceptions that a deadly force threat was in play.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can I just play this for you? Kash Patel said this. Scott Bessant said something similar. And it's getting a lot of blowback from the right. From the right. SOT 23. I mean, thousands of people are marching through Minneapolis. They are targeting the Border Patrol. I mean, it feels like the rhetoric and the protesting is only ramping up. What is your advice to the people right now who are outraged that this is a second killing at the hands of Border Patrol in two weeks?

[James O'Keefe]

As Christy said, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. You don't have that right to break the law and incite violence. We will, of course, always protect your First Amendment speech. And if you peacefully protest, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you have seen a trend here, not just in Minnesota, but across the country, in these protests turning into violent scenarios and people attacking law enforcement. That's when you go over the line, and that's when law enforcement steps in.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so the problem there is. I'll get Andrew to weigh in on this, too, Dave. But you are allowed to bring a gun. Minnesota is. I think they allow concealed carry, and this guy wasn't doing anything wrong just by carrying a loaded gun. I think we should be clear on that.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, you got a rebuke from the NRA on that one. When the U.S. attorney was saying the same thing Casper Tell did, and it is in direct contravention to what Kyle Rittenhouse was doing. The same people who are defending Kyle Rittenhouse are now saying you should never bring a gun to these events. Well, he had a permit for it, so it was legal. And he didn't brandish it. Not once.

[Megyn Kelly]

Alex Preddy.

[Dave Aronberg]

Alex Preddy. Excuse me. Alex Preddy never brandished it. It was legal. He had the permit.

[James O'Keefe]

Correct.

[Dave Aronberg]

If I could go back just to something that Andrew said. He talked about the chain of causation here, about when the gun went off the sig because it may have a defect. You can't claim self defense, though, based on a threat that you actually accidentally created. So if a federal agent was the one who mishandled the weapon or chose a firearm with a documented history of uncommanded discharges, the resulting panic is a product of their own negligence.

[Megyn Kelly]

Not Preddy's act going to put Officer B in jail for Officer A. If the Officer A negligently actually did discharge the firearm, he pulled the trigger.

[James O'Keefe]

The.

[Megyn Kelly]

They're not gonna hold that negligence against Officer B in determining what's a reasonable suspicion that you're about to be heard.

[Andrew Branca]

Well, it could be negligence. I mean, in a civil suit. I think that that argument would have merit in a criminal prosecution. No.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yep. No. Okay, so what do you. What do you make of what Cash Patel said there, Andrew? Because Scott Bessen said it, too. Like the. I do think it's kind of the issue here is not that he had a gun on him. Like, this is America. You're allowed in virtually every place. Not New York City, where I spent the past 14 years, but you're. Most places you can carry a gun, including a loaded gun. That's not what this guy did wrong. It went beyond that. And by the way, the law is also Generally, in the 8th Circuit, in particular, an individual's mere possession of a firearm is not enough for an officer to have probable cause to believe that individual poses an imminent threat of death or seriously bodily injury. The suspect must also point the firearm at another individual or take similar menacing action. And you heard Dave use that term. Was he menacing Andrew? And I think that's where it's people who reduce it to. Oh, no, no. He couldn't have been shot just for carrying a loaded gun. That's true. That's. He did more than that. There was menacing.

[Andrew Branca]

Well, he did more than that. He committed a felony assault on the. On the ICE officer or the Custom and Border Patrol officer by. By putting hands on him. That's a federal felony. You can't do that. But it's not a problem with the gun. No one was bothering him before he committed an attack on an officer. Nobody was bothering him because he had a gun. Nobody shot him because he had a gun, because he was exercising a Second amendment rights or had a couple spare magazines. He got shot because he fought the police, he fought the law, and the law won.

[Megyn Kelly]

What about that, Dave? Because, you know, I know that they're there, these agitators, believe some of them at least, that they're doing good or they're doing some sort of protective detail. But like you, as a former state's attorney, know very well, to interfere with an active law enforcement operation is complete and utter folly. You are endangering yourself, the law enforcement officers and the community. And isn't that really what cost Alex Preddy his life? He. He made a really foolish mistake. He got in between law enforcement and this other woman who was a protester that they were. She was also in between them and their arrest to e that they were trying to nab. Both of them inserted themselves, and then he Resisted arrest. But he placed hands on the officer and then resisted arrest. Am I wrong?

[Dave Aronberg]

I could see the resisting arrest, which would be a misdemeanor under state law. I don't see the felony assault against a federal agent. If you look at the video, it shows Preddy putting his AR around a woman who had just been shoved to the ground by agents. And he was facing the woman, not the agents. And so then he was pepper sprayed, and his right hand was holding his phone and left hand was raised. And so I don't think that's assaultive behavior there. It sounds like he was reacting to getting pepper sprayed for just trying to be a Good Samaritan.

[Andrew Branca]

Well, you can't interfere with a lawful arrest and say you're doing it as a Good Samaritan. You're committing a crime. If he's interfering with the arrest of the woman, he's committing a crime. He puts hands on the officer. That's a violation of 18 USC 111. Impeding an officer by contact, that's good for eight years in federal prison.

[Dave Aronberg]

But when I watched the video, I didn't see the officers arresting the woman. I saw them push the woman to the ground. And then he went to her aid, and then he got pepper sprayed. And then.

[Andrew Branca]

Well, all I can do is suggest people look at the video.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can we play the video again, Deb? Let's take another look at it. Sorry for the whistle. So they've shoved one person down to the ground. I narrate it better for the listening audience, but it's so far away from me, and it's such a tiny box from where I'm sitting.

[Andrew Branca]

And all he has to do is lay a finger on the officer while he's obstructing. All that's required is contact. Not injury, not injury, just contact.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, you don't see that. You don't see contact.

[Dave Aronberg]

I see it as resisting, which would be misdemeanor under state law. I don't see a felony assault there. Because if you look at the circumstances, he had just been pepper sprayed, he has the phone up and he's reacting.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does it matter?

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, I think it doesn't matter.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does it matter? Like, if he wasn't committing a felony, but was inserting himself in law enforcement faces and being antagonistic, and they were trying to get him out of the way, and then he resisted them.

[Andrew Branca]

I mean, the statutory language. The statutory language is you resist, oppose, or impede with contact. That's all that's required.

[Dave Aronberg]

And also, even if he is, it doesn't give you the license to kill there. It doesn't give you the license to shoot.

[Andrew Branca]

He wasn't killed for that.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, right, so that's why it's irrelevant. Look, I think he did resist. I do not think he committed felony assault. I think, if anything, it'd be a misdemeanor.

[Andrew Branca]

Understood.

[Megyn Kelly]

State law.

[Dave Aronberg]

But as far as.

[James O'Keefe]

But.

[Megyn Kelly]

But just. Just so we're really clear on this point, he doesn't have to have committed felony assault for the police officers to be exonerated. Andrew's just adding that in as yet another fact.

[Dave Aronberg]

That's. That's correct. Because the question is, as we said from the beginning, were the police officers in reasonable fear of their lives or serious bodily harm, and was it imminent? And that's where I say they were not. Especially not the later shots, but especially when they saw his hands the whole time they were on top of him. He never brandished his weapon.

[James O'Keefe]

And.

[Dave Aronberg]

And they started shooting because they heard a gunfire, which was because of their own doing. And so I think you have to look at everything, and that's why I think charges would be appropriate here. Although, again, a conviction is far, far from certain.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mm. How is it gonna affect things, if at all, that Kristi Noem is out there saying what are appear to be untrue things about Alex Preddy and his presence there? Here's SOT 16B. This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage on individuals and to kill law enforcement. About hundreds of protesters then showed up at the scene. They began to obstruct and to assault law enforcement officers. We saw objects being thrown at them, including ICE and other objects, and a rampant assault began. And even an HSI officer, officer agent's finger was bitten off. With respect to Secretary Noem, it now looks like even ICE agents are disputing that. Giving a statement to Bill Malusion saying, this is utterly unhelpful. These statements have been, quote, catastrophic. And that they. That they are fed up because overstating what's gone on, you know, in this case, overstating what Alex Preddy had intended is just undermining their credibility. And now there's an open rift between the two. But does this play at all legally? Does this get brought up legally? In any way? Go ahead, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh, I think it does. When it comes to the state seeking the evidence from the federal government, I think they're gonna say that federal government's not acting in good faith, therefore, you have to order them to turn over the evidence to us. And Normally, when the feds say we are gonna keep the evidence and you don't get it, it's because they're gonna prosecute the case themselves. Not when they try to protect the officer. From the beginning. This shows they're not trying to investigate. They're trying to cover up the actions of the officer. She did not do the federal government a service. Or the federal agents who I think would want the evidence to be turned over because some of it could be exculpatory.

[Megyn Kelly]

Andrew, I got 20 seconds left. Go ahead.

[Andrew Branca]

Well, I would just concur with that assessment. It's completely unhelpful. It's very important for the administration to stick strictly to what is demonstrably true and not engage in mind reading about people's motives when there's no evidence to support it. And it can lead to exactly the kind of arguments Dave just raised.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mm. You can sense the frustration. I mean, I'm sure she was trying to have their back, but there's a good way of doing it, and there's a not that great way of doing it. We'll continue to follow it. You guys, thank you. Learned a lot. We appreciate it. Dave and Andrew both. We'll back tomorrow with Ruthless. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda, and no, no fear. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. And for decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Get all your jobs done [e-mail] Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Game night's fun until someone spends five minutes lining up one shot. Chalk.

[James O'Keefe]

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