← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Neocons vs. Trump's Iran Peace Deal, and "Hate Speech" Censorship, Plus Lindsey Graham's Primary Challenger | Ep. 1312
01:40:54
Megyn Kelly is joined by Tucker Carlson, host of "The Tucker Carlson Show," to discuss reporting that the U.S. and Iran may be close to a deal to end the war, backlash from neocons furious about the possibility of de-escalation, the truth about the money and political influence behind efforts to keep the Iran war going, the push from pro-war voices to try to reach Trump before a deal is reached, bipartisan efforts to censor so-called “hate speech,” corporate media and Jake Tapper backing the crackdown attempt, why obsessing over Donald Trump either from love or hate is unhealthy, why Tucker would vote for Trump again over "dumb" Kamala, absurd backlash over their recent comments about Islam, why it's important to be self-reflective about whether you've been manipulated by the establishment press and elites, and more. Then Mark Lynch, GOP U.S. senate candidate in South Carolina, joins to discuss how he plans to defeat Lindsey Graham, why he believes "traitor" Graham needs to go, th...
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- [00:00]
Megyn Kelly
With Vrbal's last minute deals, you can save over $50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape with friends, a family week at the beach or sightseeing in a new city, there's still time to get great discounts. Book your next day now. Average savings $72 select homes only. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. Boy, do we have a show for you today. Senator Lindsey Graham's primary opponent is coming on. Can he defeat the longtime senator next month? But we begin with the news. Axios reporting yesterday that the US And Iran are potentially closing in on a deal to end the Iran war and the neocons are most unhappy about it. Mark Levin even writing I have to believe the Axios report is largely fake. Marc Thiessen writing that Iran senses weakness and does not think President Trump will bomb them again. And Ben Shapiro making the case that the best move the US can make now is is to bomb Iran's Kharg island, the country's primary oil export terminal. Joining me now on Everything that's Happening, fresh off of his big New York Times sit down with our friend Lulu is Tucker Carlson. He is host of the Tucker Carlson show, available on YouTube and all podcast platforms and@tucker Carlson.com when there are supply constraints on commodities prices surge, you see it with fuel prices, with everything happening in the Strait of Hormuz right now. And you know what else is a limited commodity? Gold. They mine it out of the ground and when it's gone, it's gone. Governments cannot just print more of it. And that's why everyone from central banks to savvy savers consider diversifying with gold. If you've been thinking about it for years, like so many, but have still never moved some of your savings into physical gold, consider Birch Gold Group. Now through May 29, Birch Gold is giving first time gold buyers a rebate of up to 10,000 bucks on qualifying purch for details and a free information kit on diversifying into Gold. Text MK to the number 989898. Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401K into a tax sheltered IRA in physical gold. Text MK to the number 989898 to see if you qualify for a first time gold buyer rebate of up to $10,000. Great to see you.
- [02:47]
Tucker Carlson
Hey Megan.
- [02:48]
Megyn Kelly
You're shocked. Sh. Shocked by the neocon reaction to the possibility of ending this thing, I'm sure.
- [02:55]
Tucker Carlson
I mean, I hope the possibility of ending it is real. I noticed that every time Axios announces an imminent end to the war, a lot of people make huge bets on oil futures right before it comes out and presumably make a lot of money on that, and then it never happens. It's my hope that the United States gets out as soon as possible. There will be damage. There already is damage. A lot of people have died. Twelve countries have been bombed. Many thousands have been killed. The US Economy has been hurt. Lots of countries, economies are wounded by this. But I don't see a future where it gets better by staying in longer. And by the way, neither do any of the people you just mentioned who don't know anything about the region, who know anything in general other than what they think Netanyahu wants. But if you were to ask Shapiro or ask Mark Thiessen, whoever that is, or ask Mark Levin, like, how does this play out exactly? They don't have any clue. I mean, there was a. The ic. The American intelligence community reached the assessment yesterday, and it was leaked today to the Washington Post in a John Hudson piece that Iran has three or four months of basically stability left in it. It's not gonna. There's no imminent collapse of the Iranian regime. That's just not true. The blockade is not toppling this government. And so what did three or four more months of a closed strait look like for the rest of the world? Well, for Asia, for Africa, for Europe, for North America, for the United States, it's a pure disaster. Do they have a response to that? Of course not. They don't care. They probably don't even know. Nothing matters to the people you just mentioned other than the political fortunes of the Prime Minister of Israel, by the way, it's not even good for Israel. How is this good for Israel? In no sense is it good for Israel, but Bibi wants it, so they repeat it. And I just. I really pray that the US Government, the administration, will stop listening to these people. They're the same ones who got us into the Iraq war. Trump used to know that. I don't know how they went up in charge again.
- [05:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, the. There's an article in the Free Press, Barry Weiss's publication, by Amit Siegel, who's the chief political correspondent for Israel's Channel 12, arguing that, that, geez, you know, the reports are that we're closer to a deal than at any point during this war. And it's unfortunate timing, writing that if the status quo blockade remains the Islamic Republic will not survive 2026 and saying that the but however, this entire strategy relies on that big if of the blockade continuing. So if Israel hopes to sustain the blockade through the end of 2026 Tucker through the end of 2026, Israel hoping no, it's we are the ones doing the blockade. Well, of course there is the unavoidable matter of the American midterm elections to contend with and trying to refocus. The president arguing that Iran will be his legacy pushing. Now that's the first we've heard someone openly say the blockade's got to go on through the end of 26. Post the midterms.
- [06:04]
Tucker Carlson
Tucker Israel could not sustain a blockade or defend itself for 24 hours without the $1.5 trillion US military backstopping it and enforcing the long standing defense guarantee that we have with Israel. If that were to go away, Israel would have two choices. It would either suffer elimination or it would use nuclear weapons. So that's where we'd be without the United States government backstopping Israel, period. So anybody who tells you Israel is going to do this, Israel is going to do that, Israel has no capacity to defend itself, period. And anyone who works at the Pentagon who will speak to you honestly off the record will explain it to you in great detail. We wouldn't. Israel would have done none of this. It wouldn't have a six or eight or 10 front war or whatever kind of multi headed war they're now waging. None of that would have been possible without the US Military, US Service members being killed on their behalf, US Tax dollars paying for the whole thing. So there's that, but there's this weird kind of tunnel vision, and I do think it begins with Trump where all that matters is Iran and making sure they don't have nuclear weapons and degrading them, toppling the regime in Tehran. It's like that's something that you might want to do, I guess, in a perfect world. But that's like number 417 on your to do list. If you're the American president, the number one thing you have to do is make sure your own country doesn't degrade its people, don't become poor. Your OD rate for young men doesn't rise as it is rising. There are jobs for your kids. You have some kind of plan. When AI eliminates half of all white collar jobs in the United States in the next three years, you need to think about your own country. And so the idea that the purpose of the US Government is to somehow keep the world safe from Iran is insane. And so if you begin there, of course you wind up like Marc Thsen and all you care about is Iran. There is a world that's pretty easy to imagine where you would just live with a sovereign Iran, which is a regional power. It always has been for thousands of years. It will remain a regional power. Sorry. And that's just the world that we're going to live with. It's not the ideal world, but we don't get an ideal world. We have a world in which we create priorities. And the US Government has to put its own people at the top of that list. And it's not.
- [08:29]
Megyn Kelly
Case in point, the argument over whether we should continue to provide the subsidies for Obamacare recipients that we just went through over the latest closing of the government was saying these people, I mean, through no fault of their own, Barack Obama took away their healthcare that they had and they liked and their doctors and replaced it with a government run program called Obamacare.
- [08:49]
Mark Lynch
Right.
- [08:49]
Megyn Kelly
And it was so expensive and ridiculous, the government had to subsidize it so that the people didn't realize how much more it was costing them for the first 10 plus years. And now here we are with the bill coming due, the subsidies going away, and the argument by the Democrats was we need like some $25 billion in subsidies in order to keep this going. The government said, are you crazy? We can't afford that. Guess what, we just spent a minimum on this Iran war. The price tag was 25 billion. Of course it's much more than that, but that's what the Pentagon's willing to admit. So we've spent it on Iran, but we wouldn't spend it on our own people to save them the pain from this bill that was shoved down their throats by Barack Obama. And now we find out that though President Trump said that we're gonna have this ballroom built and it's gonna be completely free, it's gonna be privately funded. No, it turns out they slipped $100 million into the budget.
- [09:44]
Tucker Carlson
A billion.
- [09:45]
Megyn Kelly
Not openly. Yes, sorry, okay. Not openly owning what that was going to actually cost people. So, yes, the priorities are definitely not on the pocketbooks of the American people and they know it. But wait, I wanna get back to what the pressure that they're putting on Trump not to enter into a deal. And I agree with you, I have no idea whether there's a 14 point deal or not. None whatsoever. I don't trust a word President Trump says about this anymore. He's told us 31 times that the Iran war is over. Okay. Only to then tweet about how we're gonna bomb them into oblivion. So what we're seeing is, yes, I mentioned the Free Press and of course, Mark Levin. Now you've got this Israel first think tank, the foundation for Defense of Democracies out there, actually saying that the Iran war presents Trump with an opportunity more transformative than the collapse of the Soviet Union. Talking about how the window for a regime change remains open as Iranians still await the call from the president to take to the streets like they. They want every last thing. We want regime change. We want to annihilate what's left of the regime. And that brings me to my next sound bite, which is Hugh Hewitt hosting. John Podoretz sought to, up until now,
- [10:58]
Tucker Carlson
it was the Supreme Court. But if he actually crushes the Iranian nuclear threat, that's a world historical achievement. This deal is not that. Is it, John? A deal is not that. No, the problem here is that. But say it's July 17th and Israel bombs Hezbollah site, and the Iranians say, we don't like this, so we're going to close the Strait for 48 hours. What are we going to do? Yep. I mean, it's always, it will always be conditional. Because Hormuz became the, the card that they played. He kind of has to go for regime change now. The regime that is standing cannot remain standing because it has closed the strait and it now has that as its trump card, if you will. So he's actually deepened the necessity for a successful military conclusion to the war. That has a regime change effect. That's not where this was six weeks ago. I don't think your thoughts. It's just embarrassing. It's embarrassing to see public intellectuals in the country I was born in and love reveal themselves as ignorant and dumb. You can't administer a global empire unless you understand the world. And almost none of the people who are weighing in on we should do this, we should do that, have any understanding even of geography. Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz because it has the majority of the coastline along it. It always has. Again, it's geography. Iran is an economic power first and foremost, because the commodities that flow through that aperture at the, at the eastern end of the Persian Gulf are necessary for the global economy. So Iran is an economic power. We have spent the last 40 years focusing on its various weapons programs, including its WMD program, its nuclear program. But we've completely missed the fact that Iran is not going anywhere. There will always be Persians on The other side, they have problems with the Arabs on, on the, on the GCC side. Like these are long standing conflicts, but they're not going to change. So Iran has always had control over the Strait of Hormuz. By definition, they've just decided not to invoke that, that power and that's not going away. And so any kind of settlement, if you were to nuke Iran, the remaining survivors would still have the ability to block the Strait of Hormuz with mines or with boats. Somali pirates harass shipping off the Horn of Africa. It's an asymmetrical problem. So the best case scenario is you have a coherent government in Iran, it probably is not going to be pro Western, sorry, but that you can reach some terms with that government sufficient to get shipping through that strait so the world economy can function as it did on February 27th. That's just a fact that's not ever changing. So I don't understand people like, well, you just, just topple the regime. What happens then? Do failed states make for secure shipping lanes? Just the opposite. Only a coherent state, whether you like that state or not, can guarantee a shipping lane. So like the dumbness on display just boggles my mind and the rest of the world watching this is like really these people are running the globe. Like they're not, they're not equal to the task.
- [14:41]
Megyn Kelly
They really talk about this. They really talk about this. Like if they just kill enough top Iranian leaders, they're going to get to Jeb Bartlett. Jeb Bartlett is sitting there waiting to run Iran. And that's a guy we can work with. And it's just, what is the evidence of that? How many members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard are we going to kill? There are tens of thousands of them. Are we're going to get rid of all of them? Like, who exactly is this imaginary leader who is going to have the support of the Iranian people and work with us to make Iran this Western democracy like province that we can work with on everything forever? That I don't know. I genuinely don't know what they're thinking. And I do, actually.
- [15:22]
Tucker Carlson
Here's the difference. We have different goals. Okay? So from an American perspective, you want stability because you want commerce to function, because you don't want your country to be poor and you don't want to lose your special privilege of having the world's reserve currency because that means your debt comes due and your country collapses. So that's the American perspective. So economic shocks are the real threat to us, bigger than terror attacks? Bigger even than wars is the idea that we go bankrupt and we can't make good in any of our outstanding debts to our public. So you can't keep the welfare state alive and you have some kind of real turmoil in our country. That's our goal. The Israeli goal is not putting in a pro Western regime. They know that's impossible. They're not stupid. The Israeli goal is chaos. The Israeli goal is to pull off in Iran what they pulled off with our help in Syria and Lebanon and Libya. And that's just have a permanent civil war where their enemies are fighting each other. Okay. And then you have the refugee crises. Not in Israel, because they're never letting anyone in Israel. But Europe will continue to be destroyed. The United States will bear the brunt of that refugee crisis, et cetera, et cetera. So the goal, from the perspective of John Podharetz and Ben Shapiro and Netanyahu and Mark Levin and all the rest of them were speaking with one voice, is Israel's goal. And I'm not even attacking it like that's their goal. I get it. They have different national interests, but it's bears no resemblance to ours. Zero. And no one will admit that.
- [16:45]
Megyn Kelly
There's more. I have a Ben Shapiro, but I'll get to him in one second. First, Hugh Hewitt, who I really like, had said to me, to see him go this far out there, but it's fine. I disagree with him, but I still like him.
- [16:58]
Tucker Carlson
I do, too.
- [17:00]
Megyn Kelly
Here's what he said with Noah Rothman, formerly of Commentary, which is where Podoritz is now. Noah's with National Review, and Hugh Hewitt is an independent radio host in Sat.1, J.D.
- [17:11]
Tucker Carlson
vance told me on this show when he was a senator or running for vice president, I can't remember that. Nations have their own interests and they have to follow their own interests. We don't control Israel. Israel doesn't control us. At this point, I think it's in Israel's interest to act against Iran in a way that blows up this deal. What do you think? Well, yeah, I tend to agree.
- [17:36]
Megyn Kelly
So that's an American openly calling for Israel to queer the deal that an American president says he's about to strike with Iran to end a war. Tucker.
- [17:48]
Tucker Carlson
I mean, the problem with propaganda is people believe it. Even smart people and Americans have been told for 50 years that Israel is kind of fighting its own battles in the Middle east and it's a scrappy little country surrounded by enemies. And the truth bears no resemblance to that at all. Israel is a proxy state of the United States. Israel has no meaningful military. Israel has 9 million people. Iran has almost 100 million. There are hundreds of millions of enemies right around Israel. And the only reason that country still exists is because it has the backstop of the US Military. Israel cannot act independently. It doesn't have the materiel, it doesn't have the planes. It can't even drop some. The munitions that we have used on its behalf because it doesn't have the planes. It doesn't have the pilots to fly the planes. So the Israeli military is not a meaningful military. They can't act alone. And people just don't seem to understand this. They haven't taken the time to just learn, like, what. What exactly is the idf? What's a reserve army in a tiny country? It would be eaten in 20 minutes by Iran and by a lot of other increasingly hostile actors in the region. So, like, this is all just fantasy. It's just dumb.
- [18:57]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I mean, do you dispute that they could queer the deal like they've been trying to do they have in Lebanon during our. Yeah, so, I mean, they are capable of doing that, but only to the
- [19:08]
Tucker Carlson
extent that we allow them. So the truth is, you know, there are all kinds of levers of control that are obvious having to do with money. There are probably some that are much less obvious and possibly more sinister, and I, I can't speak to those precisely, but there is some reason that this tiny country has such profound control over our country, supposedly the dominant country in the world. I don't exactly know what that is, but at least academically, it would be possible for a US President to say, you know what, we've reached the end of our ability to help you. This is actually counterproductive to our interests. It's hurting us, and good luck and get along with your neighbors in the way that every other country is forced to get along with their neighbors. Every person has to. You may have super annoying people living next door to you. You can't just shoot them. You don't want them to live there. There's nothing you can do about it. There's literally nothing you could do.
- [19:56]
Megyn Kelly
You have to look at our evil top hat, Canada.
- [19:58]
Tucker Carlson
Well, thank you. We've had, you know, the threat from Mexico is so much more profound than the threat from Iran. How many Americans die every year as a result of decisions made by the government of Mexico? Many thousands. And how many die because of Iran? Zero. Until we declared war on Iran. So, like, these are the problems that you deal with in this very flawed world that we live in. You have to deal with hostile neighbors and have to come to terms with them. Israel hasn't had to behave like a normal country because it has the United States government basically cleaning up every single mess and allowing it to overextend dramatically. Israel's way overextended, like way. You can't fight this many wars even if you're a large country with a massive standing army. Israel's in major trouble and no one can even conceptualize that the people who hate Israel don't care because they want it to be destroyed. The people who love Israel can't imagine Israel being weak. But the, the truth provable in the numbers about Israel is that it's in a very dangerous place right now. Super dangerous. And no one sees that clearly. I'd be worried if I lived in Israel right now.
- [21:05]
Megyn Kelly
Remaining on the topic of the neocons trying to push Trump not to settle this deal to, to instead go nuclear on Iran and take it next level. I mean no one's openly calling for a nuclear bomb. That was the figure of speech. But you and I both know then
- [21:18]
Tucker Carlson
has called for that. Levin has called for nuclear strikes on Iran.
- [21:22]
Megyn Kelly
That's true. Okay, I stand corrected. Here's Ben Shapiro on Tuesday Sat three.
- [21:28]
Tucker Carlson
The easiest move for the United States to make right now would be to just blow up Hog Island, Park Island. You could do an amphibious operation there. It's a lot riskier. Or you could just blow it up. And that means that Iran has no refinery capacity and that means their economy is basically sunk for the foreseeable future with a lot of things that we can do. We could blow up park island. We could hit other energy resources inside the country. We could take down another layer of, of the irgc. We'll probably have to do at some point another kinetic action against missile facilities that have been uncovered over the course of the last few weeks. But anybody who believes at this point that Iran is winning this war is missing the boat. I mean, totally missing the boat.
- [22:04]
Megyn Kelly
I mean this is just an example of the pressure that Trump is under from Shapiro, Levin. I'm sure Lindsey Graham, Mark Thiessen, General Jack Keane, Rupert Murdoch and many, many others to pedal to the metal. Do not settle. Don't settle. With a 14 point deal, don't settle at all. Keep going militarily until there's nothing left of the people who used to be in charge in Iran or even the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which as I point out is tens of thousand strong.
- [22:34]
Tucker Carlson
You wonder where the pressure is coming from. I mean those are clearly the spokesmen for the coalition applying pressure. But they're not in themselves powerful figures. I mean, Mark Levin has almost no viewers. Ben Shapiro is going out of business.
- [22:48]
Megyn Kelly
You look at him videos on his website, tucker. Unlike his YouTube channel, each one has like 500 views.
- [22:53]
Tucker Carlson
Well, exactly. I mean, these are the. This is the outer fringe of the outer fringe. Nobody watches this stuff. There's no audience for this. There's no constituency for it. This is totally divorced from the actual problems Americans face. It's. It's hurting our country measurably. $6 gasoline is the result of these policies. These are the people got us in the Iraq war. Like, nobody is for this. And these are not major figures in American media. They're tiny. I mean, your average porn video has a thousand more views than any of these people get. So they're a joke. I don't think these are the people applying the pressure. I do think this is coming from donors. I think it's coming from Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer and the people who. Totally huge players in Republican politics because they fund it. They fund them. A lot of it. Maybe a plurality, possibly a majority of it. All of it. Not just at the federal level, but also state level. They're the ones funding the opposition to Thomas Massie in a Republican primary in Kentucky. $10 million. So these are people who have a huge influence over American politics. And they're acting on behalf of the government of Israel, not on behalf of all Israelis, much less all Jews in the world. Hardly. They want you to believe that it's a lie. Plenty of Jews hate them for good reason, but they're acting on behalf of the Netanyahu government on behalf of foreign power. And I do think that's where the influence is coming. Like Mark Levin. Trump does not take Mark Levin seriously. Nobody likes Mark Levin. Ben Shapiro, I don't think he knows Trump. He's always hated Trump. Trump doesn't like him. These people are just irrelevant. They're a sideshow. Mary Madelson is not irrelevant. Paul Singer is not irrelevant. These are ser.
- [24:32]
Megyn Kelly
Paul Singer. You give Trump $200 million and you get his attention.
- [24:36]
Tucker Carlson
That's exactly. Nicely put. That's exactly right.
- [24:40]
Megyn Kelly
You mentioned Thomas Massie. I know you had him on your show just the other day. And amazingly, even though he is incredibly popular in his home state, that campaign against him he revealed to you is working. Trump's trying to primary him. He's been against the Trump agenda on a couple of items. He usually votes with the Trump agenda, but he's definitely been outspoken on Epstein and on Israel, to name two. And now these outside groups, like Marianne Adelson's money, have swooped in to help try to defeat him. And it was news to me because I hadn't been watching it that carefully, that it's working. Here's a soundbite from his interview with you yesterday.
- [25:20]
Tucker Carlson
Sat 14 full on blowouts in the Republican primary in your district in Kentucky. And now it's within a couple of points and you could lose. And the difference is they have spent $10 million against you. Where'd that money come from? It's come from billionaires. And 95% of it, at least 95%, has come from the Israeli lobbies, the RJC, which is the Republican Jewish Coalition. AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Miriam Adelson, Paul Singer and John Paulson went together. They funded a PAC called MAGA Kentucky, which is neither MAGA nor Kentucky. So she's trying to buy a congressional seat in Kentucky. Along with the rest of these groups, there's also another interesting fact called Christians United for Israel. They're really just another wing of AIPAC and RJC that's been used to co opt Christians into supporting their position. And their position is more war, it's more strife, it's more bombs, it's send more foreign aid. And those are the things that I've been voting against.
- [26:27]
Megyn Kelly
So is that it, Tucker? Is this just a matter of money? She bought and paid for Trump and now he's doing her bidding?
- [26:32]
Tucker Carlson
Well, there's, there's no question about it. It's literally that simple. I would say Thomas Massie is not an opponent of the Trump agenda. Thomas Massie is one of the very last proponents of the Trump agenda, defenders of the Trump agenda, the agenda that Donald Trump ran on a year and a half ago. That's what Thomas Massie still believes. That's what he votes for. That would include transparency, an end to corruption, no more wars. Trump ran on these things just the other day I campaigned for him, I remember very well. And so Massie still believes those things. He's never stopped believing them. The break came when Massie described how AIPAC controls members of Congress. And I should just say Massey reminds me of you in a way. He's never been against Israel. Massie likes Israel. He's certainly not against Jewish people. He likes Jewish. I mean, there's nothing anti Semitic or anti Israel about Thomas Massie. He just made the mistake of describing out loud what it's like to have a foreign lobby show up in your office and demand that you vote a certain way. And he said to them, as he has to all lobbies, foreign and domestic, I'm voting the way I think my constituents want me to vote, consistent with my principles, and I'm not playing along. And because he said that Trump's donors decided we have to take this guy out because if we don't, not that Massie is going to like, change the system single handedly, but if we don't take Massie out, if we don't punish him publicly for telling the truth about what we're doing, others may follow. So as an example to the rest down the line, they have to crush Thomas Massie. And then all of these, all the goons, the paid consultants in Republican politics, and all consultants are the same, Republican and Democrat. A lot of them are vicious people and they're all only about the money. This guy La Civita, who is the head consultant for Donald Trump, rather than just work against Massie in the primary, he's taking money from these three Israeli lobbyists, basically Paulson, Singer and Adelson. He starts attacking the guy personally, calls him garbage. Garbage. Thomas Massie is one of the most decent members of the Congress, one of the most honest, sweet tempered, kind, totally opposed to hate. Christian called him garbage. Then they start attacking his wife, his new wife. His wife passed away two years ago. He got remarried and the consultants started attacking the guy's wife. And then the President attacks his wife. It's like, why go scorched earth on a man who's done nothing wrong other than stay consistent to his own principles, to the President's own stated policies? He's doing the right thing. He this is what democracy is supposed to look like. A citizen legislator.
- [29:11]
Megyn Kelly
Really unbelievable how the President has not only Massey's remarriage after he lost his wife, but Joe Kent's remarriage four years later after his wife was killed. I mean, it's insane.
- [29:24]
Tucker Carlson
Killed by who?
- [29:24]
Megyn Kelly
Donald Trump?
- [29:25]
Tucker Carlson
Killed by Donald Trump's administration. Joe Kent's wife was killed. The mother of his two sons was killed as a CIA officer in Syria by a suicide bomb. What was she doing there? She was sent there by the Trump administration to fight another one of Israel's wars. So it's a decision that Donald Trump made that got Joe Kent's wife killed. That's a fact. It's not interpretation, it's a fact. And now Trump is attacking the guy for getting remarried after that wife is killed serving his administration. It's, it's almost too much.
- [29:56]
Megyn Kelly
Four Years later.
- [29:58]
Tucker Carlson
Yes.
- [29:58]
Megyn Kelly
No, I mean, like, not, not to be. To put you. Fine. A point on it, but Donald Trump cheated on his wife, Ivana Trump, with Marla Maples. It was extreme. Extremely infamous and all over the papers. How dare he criticize these honorable men who lost their wives for finding love years later? It's truly galling. It's way below the belt. But, okay, it's. It's just one example. I mean, this is like the stuff that all of us kind of overlooked on Trump for many years because he was. He's not a particularly moral man. I think we've known that. It's just right now he's spiraling because he knows, Tucker, that his numbers are spiraling down the drain. He sees what we see. It's so bad he can't even come out and attack the polls as he normally would because it's every poll, he's at the lowest approval rating he's ever been at in the history of his two terms across the board on the economy, on this war, on inflation, on whether they trust him with white working class voters, with men, women, with young voters. I mean, of course, he's already lost women and so on. But like every single constituency, there is one tiny constituency that still seems pro Trump, and that is the self described MAGA. Over 65 Fox News viewers. That's it.
- [31:17]
Tucker Carlson
Yep. And he knew this was going to happen. I mean, Trump didn't want to start this war. He. He was fully informed about the consequences of it. I talked to him about it. He had no enthusiasm for it whatsoever. He just kept repeating the world's dumbest talking point. Do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons? Well, no, I guess don't care that much. Pakistan has them, North Korea has them, Israel has them. A lot of lunatic countries have nuclear weapons. I don't want more countries to have nuclear weapons. I don't like nuclear weapons. On the other hand, is that a priority for me? No, it's a priority for Israel. But he. That that was his only line. Do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons? No. Okay. But I don't really care. And most Americans don't really care. What they care about is the condition of their own country. And Trump knew that. He ran on it three times. He actually felt it. He knew that he risked his presidency, his legacy, the country itself by starting a regime change, war with Iran. He knew that fact and he did it anyway because he clearly felt he had no choice. That is my read from talking to him extensively on this topic before the war began. And So I think it's incumbent on all of us to figure out what exactly was the pressure applied to Trump to make him do something he knew was going to hurt him and his party and his legacy and his country. What could possibly compel a man to hurt himself? And I don't know the answer.
- [32:42]
Megyn Kelly
I, I. Well, I've heard you talk about that. And the suggestion, you know, by Joe Kent and others might be somebody held something over him, somebody threatened him. You know, did he believe the lives of his family or his own life might be in jeopardy if he didn't do this thing? My own belief just, you know, having watched Trump for many years now, is it was just hubris, Tucker. He. He got drunk on his own wine after the damn Venezuela strike and then the June strike in Iran and thought he was talked into, you know, this sort of cowboy Persona. You know, I heard Jane Fonda talking about Ted Turner because he died yesterday, and how what a badass the guy was. And he won the America cup and he founded cnn. He had all these billion. He had swagger, he had personality. That's how Trump wants to see himself. And those two military operations let him do it. He, of course, dodged the Vietnam War. He never actually served himself. And so now he's commander in chief. He's seeing how impressive and amazing our military is, and they, they truly are, and they can do heroic and amazing things. And he's at the top of the command, and I truly believe he thought, I can do this. Bibi says they're gonna be above ground. I can take out the ayatollah and his top emissaries. It's four days. I'm in, I'm out. I'm lauded as a hero. I'm gonna have these people writing things like, it's the greatest thing since I, you know, whatever. The Russian Revolution, the fall of the Soviet Union. And he bought it because he is a narcissist. They all are when they become president. But Trump's in a special league, and he bought it because his ego needed him to buy it. And it's easy to win Trump over with that kind of flattery and false praise. He had tried it, Netanyahu had on Obama. He was just out confirming that the other day, and on many other presidents. He just found the one who was really susceptible to that kind of talk. That's my own belief.
- [34:32]
Tucker Carlson
I thought that, but I. I pushed him hard on this, and I said, look, Netanyahu hates you. You know, that they don't like each other at all. And he has contempt for you. He's shown that he does not have your best interests at heart. The people pushing you toward this would include Rupert Murdoch, who despises you. Trump knows that, of course. Mark Thiessen has always hated you. Ben Shapiro, they hate you. Mark Levin hates you. Has always hated you.
- [34:57]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [34:58]
Tucker Carlson
The people pushing you to. I said this right to his face. The people pushing you to do this want to destroy you. And they're doing it on behalf of Israel, whose goals include getting the United States out of the Middle East. They don't want the US in the Gulf because it strengthens the.
- [35:14]
Megyn Kelly
They don't like our friendships there.
- [35:16]
Tucker Carlson
They don't like our friendships there at all. Because Qatar and UAE and Saudi, but also Bahrain, Oman and Kuwait. But those mainly, those three countries are a massive rival to regional hegemony. You can't run the Middle east with strong Gulf states. And so they want the US Out. Israel wants the US out of the Middle east, and they want to degrade those Gulf states. And I said that right to his face, and he said, yeah, I know. So that. That just. That happened now. Maybe he was lying to me. I don't know why he would. He did not seem at all enthusiastic about this at all. He seemed like he dreaded it. And I think he retreated into his happy place, as all of us do. Like, maybe it'll be finals, roll the dice, we'll kill the Ayatollah, the whole thing will collapse. It'll just be like the Maduro operation. I think he allowed himself to think that, but he's not stupid. He's very smart in his weird way. It's weird, right? He's not conventionally brilliant, but in his specific way. Well, you know him, he has a brilliance to him. He's gifted, obviously. He's gifted for sure. And he knew exactly how bad this could be. And I think within, like, 24 hours, he knew it was bad. And that's why he sent. I believe he sent Rubio out there to blame Israel for it. To say, well, we had to do it because they were moving first and, like, then they were going to be exposed in. Our assets in the region would be exposed. Like, I think that was on purpose. I can't prove it, but I believe it because Trump was enraged at the Israelis the second this happened and the regime didn't fall. He knew, oh, wow, how do you get out of it? Now he knew he was shafted, and I think he's known it for two months now.
- [36:50]
Megyn Kelly
The main thing we're negotiating over is the thing that we had prior to launching this war, which is opening the Strait of Hormuz. That's so great. I mean, terrific. There's really no winning for us at this point. There's no winning. There's just getting out, stemming the tide of losses and trying to save face. But I don't even care about saving face at this point, Tucker. Right. It's just like, just get out and let's, let's try to stop this from spiraling into a nuclear war. Meanwhile, there is, you know, I hate to be too, you know, big in my rhetoric here, but there is sort of a parallel war happening domestically in the battle over narratives around this war. And the pro Israel side is out for blood. They are crazed right now in their attacks on people like you, like Candace Owens, like me as well. Now anybody who is openly critical of Israel or raising questions about Israel or not pro this war, I mean that the, you know, the number of hit pieces you're going to get the number of like very nasty names. Like, I don't mean just like, I know nothing. I'm talking about Nazi, which Mark Levin has been calling all of us, but especially you and Ben Shapiro and all of them. Okay, so that's happening. And in the midst of this, we get yesterday two congressmen going on Jake Tapper show, Representative Gotheimer and Mike Lawler of New York. Josh Gotheimer is from New Jersey, he's a Democrat, Lawler's a Republican. And they introduced this is so galling, a bipartisan resolution. They went on Tapper to discuss it and I'll show you what happened. A bipartisan resolution condemning the rise of anti Semitic hate filled rhetoric disseminated by prominent online personalities. The two they name specifically, but it's not limited to them, it's just including Hassan Piker, he's of the left, and Candace, and calling on social media platforms and public leaders, so all the social media platforms and government leaders to take stronger action, quote, against hate. This is an obvious push to censor opinions about Israel. That's what this is. Okay. And they go through saying, and Tapper mentioned you as well, but they say that they're dangerous. Their rhetoric, rhetoric and their conspiracy theories, I'm reading from the resolution for the actual text of it are dangerous and contribute to a climate of hatred and intolerance. Individuals with online platforms have a responsibility to refrain from promoting or amplifying anti Semitic narratives and disinformation. Now this is our government telling all of us who are in the digital space, it's we have a responsibility to refrain from hate speech. No, we don't. No, we don't. Actually. We can engage in as much hate speech as we want. That's America. That's the beauty of being an American. You don't like it. This is magic. A wonderful imaginary thing that you apparently don't know about called the dial. And if you, if you press the dialogue, you can go right down the lane to listen to Rachel Maddow or Kara Swisher or somebody who's saying what you like. Here they write. Social media and streaming platforms should take appropriate steps to enforce their policies against hate speech and prevent the spread of anti Semitic content. Public officials and community leaders should unequivocally condemn anti Semitism, including when it's propagated by high profile media figures and influencers. And they go on from there. So now these two. Now it sounds all pie in the sky, right? Like we're against hate, hate, hate against racial groups, hate against religious groups. Okay, in theory, yes. People don't like that. This is the government calling on social media platforms and other government officials to, quote, condemn hate and stop the hate. What does that mean? That means censorship that's directly antithetical to the First Amendment. So they go on with Jake Tapper and I just want you to know, I know you don't watch tv, but they recently had the White House Correspondents Dinner, and Jake Tapper and others like Margaret Brennan of CNN were wearing these little virtue signaling pocket squares or arm bandages, bandits, whatever they were. She's from cbs. Margot Brennan saying the Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of the press, the freedom of speech, like their little First Amendment advocates, Tucker, just reminding everybody they don't want government interference. Okay, this is great. It's on. These two guys have this insane resolution which is basically calling for censorship against anybody with criticisms of Israel. And they go on with the free speech advocate himself. He's so important. Put it in a pocket square, Tucker. Okay, and this is how that went. I don't have it in front of me, but my team knows what I'm looking for is this top five. Let's hear it.
- [41:51]
Mark Lynch
You have seen a rise of anti Semitism, especially on social media, and a lot of it at the voice of people like Hassan Piker and Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, among others, who are promoting anti Semitic hate speech, who continually seem to engage in longstanding anti Semitic tropes. And we are pushing back against it.
- [42:20]
Tucker Carlson
First Amendment says Congress shall make no law establishing the freedom of speech or of the Press. What do you say to somebody who wonders, are you not risking running afoul of that son piker Candace Owens? This is hate speech intended to incite violence. And our resolution is really focused on. We've got to take the temperature down. This kind of hate speech is unacceptable. People like Hasan Piker and Candace Owens shouldn't be out there campaigning with elected officials and being used and propped up as heroes. When you have, you know, piker saying things like Jews are bloodthirsty pig dogs and inbred and saying that 9 11America deserved 9 11.
- [43:02]
Megyn Kelly
Your thoughts on that?
- [43:04]
Tucker Carlson
It's just amazing to see Jake Tapper abetting something like this. Encouraging. I remember when he was a lobbyist for Hooters, thinking about becoming a journalist. He was literally a lobbyist for Hooters. I knew him well at the time. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. He was going to. Traveling around America with the Hooters girls, promoting Hooters.
- [43:24]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I. I was like, I
- [43:25]
Tucker Carlson
think I'm gonna go into journalism. And, you know, he did and unfortunately didn't do as well as he'd hoped to do, but I still thought he was like a journalist. And there he is saying things like, well, do you think passing a law trying to get people scrubbed from the Internet might be brushing up against the limits of the First Amendment? What? It's completely incontrovention First Amendment. It's the most obvious violation of the first Amendment. And he knows that, but he doesn't care because he, like the two guys on the set, cares more about the fortunes of the Netanyahu government. He's an agent for a foreign country in this specific case and has been for a long time, obviously. But what's so interesting and mind bending is that those three are accusing other people of hate speech. Those three have spent the last almost three years making excuses for ethnic cleansing, the murder of children, the killing of people because they have impure blood, the killing of Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank, the murder of civilians in Lebanon, now the killing of civilians in Iran, all because of the way they were born. These are people who are daily encouraging violence. Now, I can't speak for the other two they're attacking. I'll speak for myself. I'm totally opposed to violence. I'm a Christian. I believe in the Sermon on the Mount. I think it's wrong to kill people, and I think it's totally unacceptable to kill people who did nothing wrong, to kill innocents. That is a red line that you cannot cross. And I. I sincerely believe that so I'll just, Again, I'm not being defensive. I'm just noting what is. I, I say every single day I am opposed to violence against innocence. It's the main thing I oppose. It's why I oppose Jake Tapper and that Lawler, that Shill for Israel Lawler guy and the gottheimer from New Jersey. It's not that I dislike them personally, I feel sorry for all three of them. It's that I don't agree with their program of hate and violence. And it's just so interesting that they whip it around, be like, no, no, no. Anyone who criticizes ethnic cleansing in Gaza is guilty of hate and abetting violence. It's like, come on, I'm not falling for that. It'll work. By the way, they're absolutely going to censor the Internet, of course, at the urging of the Israeli government, using our tax dollars. There's no doubt that people are going to be.
- [45:42]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I really hope that the social media companies have learned their lesson because remember, they were censoring all talk about, you know, the trans issue for years. They were censoring. You couldn't say that it's a sickness. It's a, you're unwell if you have this gender confusion. You couldn't say that a man cannot become a woman. YouTube was censoring as well. And it took years for us to get them to the point where you can, you, you can call Lia Thomas a he, because that's what he is. Years. But they got there and they eventually got came around on Covid too. So like, this cannot become the new one where this powerful lobby comes and holds this cudgel over the, you know, heads of the social media companies saying that's the new hate speech. Like, this whole thing about hate speech is very dangerous because I, I was also told for years, you can criticize Israel. You can criticize Israel and not be called an anti Semite. You know, that's different from Jews, which is the latter part is true to your point earlier. There are a lot of Jews who don't like Netanyahu. I know from our mutual friend Melissa Francis, who's been over to Israel a lot, that there's, there's some very controversial opinions about some of these figures like Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin. They are not universally beloved over there. No, because they're so divisive. And there are a lot of Israelis who are like, just stop. You're not healthy, helpful, not to mention American Jews. But that pro Israel first crowd does conflate the two. And that's what this resolution is, conflating the two. That if you say hateful things about Israel or this war, these guys want to censor you.
- [47:15]
Tucker Carlson
And it's hard to imagine that happening right now. But the second, there's a domestic terror attack, and I, I'm very concerned that there will be. In which innocents are murdered, whether it's a real one or a false flag. Those are common. Not all terror attacks are false flags. Some are. We know that. But how, whatever the cause, whoever the perpetrator, innocence, if they are murdered in the United States, will be used as a pretext, an excuse for shutting down criticism of the people in charge. That's always the way it works in every authoritarian regime. Well, in every regime. That's, that's why it's the first amendment, because the framers understood human nature very well and they knew that people with power will always want to stop criticism of themselves. And let's be super clear. American policy toward Israel, it's American tax dollars that allow the ethnic cleansing going on in Israel's neighbors. That's the result of votes taken in the U. S. Congress, which is not majority Jewish. It's not, it's not just about the Jews. It's about. Everybody in charge has been foursquare behind this stuff, has been backing it, has been allowing it to happen. In some cases, in the case of Mike Huckabee, for example, has been enthusiastically cheering it on. So it's, again, it's not about criticizing Jews or anti Semitism. It's about criticizing the policies of the United States government, which are deeply held by our leaders. And they don't want criticism of that at all. And they will do everything they can to shut down that criticism. You watch.
- [48:48]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, we've spent the first hour criticizing a president we both campaigned for. We can criticize our leaders. We are, we are free to criticize whatever political leader we want, of course, domestically or foreign. I mean, this is like the notion that, oh, that's a bridge too far when you take it over to Israel is just absurd. It's so antithetical to being an American. I think I have time to get that second sound bite in from this representative Lawler, and I'm going to try for it.
- [49:13]
Tucker Carlson
Sat 7 well, Congressman Lawler, what do you say to somebody who might say, look, it's very easy to take on Candace Owens. It's very easy to take on Hassan Piker, but what about the politicians who campaign with them or the politicians who. Well, Tucker Carlson spoke at the Republican
- [49:29]
Mark Lynch
national convention in 2024, that by going
- [49:32]
Tucker Carlson
after these individuals and not the folks who enable them, the people who join them on the campaign trip or such, you're doing something easier than what would need to be done. First of all, these folks are grifters
- [49:46]
Mark Lynch
and they foment this hate to make money. I've called out people in my own party, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of the dumbest people to ever serve in Congress, who talked about Jewish space lasers and continues to engage in anti Semitic tropes. The fact is, in both cases parties,
- [50:04]
Tucker Carlson
we need to call out this extremism.
- [50:06]
Mark Lynch
We need to demand better of our elected officials and really hold these individuals that foment hate to account.
- [50:15]
Megyn Kelly
So there's the push to punish the politicians who associate, of course, with the Israel critics.
- [50:21]
Tucker Carlson
Marjorie Taylor Greene never, never said a word about Jewish space lasers. That's a lie. But what's so funny is their grifters. Says the guy, Mike Lawlor, who's taking a all this money from a foreign lobby, an unregistered foreign lobby. I mean, it's all just inversion, as it always is. I would just say censorship is coming, and it's coming because the people in charge failed. Their failures are really obvious and it's too painful for them to be reminded of that. So they will use whatever pretext they need to shut down that criticism. But I don't think it's going to work long term.
- [50:53]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, I hope you're right. All right, we have much more to discuss. We're going to take a quick break. We are back on the opposite side of this with more Tucker Carlson. Don't go away. You're busy. But let me tell you about Daily Look. It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. Daily look is a game changer, ladies. You get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. I mean, a real personal stylist, not an algorithm, not a bot. And you get the same stylist every time to build continuity. And she's going to get used to what you like and what didn't work the last time and so on. So head to dailylook.com use the code Megan, and that'll get you 50% off your first order. Such a good deal. You can try on up to 12 premium pieces per box in the comfort of your own home, saving you time and effort that nobody wants to expend these days. Whether you need something effortlessly chic for spring brunch, or a polished look for the office or school drop offs. Daily look has got you covered. Buy what you love, send back the rest. You will get free shipping both ways. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use the code Megan to get that 50% off your first order. Once again, that's Daily Look.com for 50% off. And make sure you use our promo code Megan so they know that we sent you one last time. Dailylook.com promo code M E G Y
- [52:21]
Tucker Carlson
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- [52:42]
Megyn Kelly
Tucker Carlson is back with me. He is host of the Tucker Carlson Show Go and subscribe. Tucker, you got a lot of attention last week, two weeks ago. It's hard to keep track where you said you regretted voting for Trump, you regretted recommending him to the American public in the wake of this war. And I was asked about it recently and I was explaining to somebody that that didn't surprise me at all because I've been watching you for years. And for years you've been very, very concerned about war and other countries dragging us into war having nothing to do with Israel, nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. I mean, I've watched you talk to foreign leaders about like, how's that in our interest? You've been very guarding when it comes to the United States against getting sucked into these things. So I wasn't surprised at all to see when it became clear Israel's going to get us into this thing. You were against it. And then we're disappointed in Trump. My own position has been I too am against the war. But the main things I voted for Trump for weren't the wasn't about the war. It was I wanted him to push back on the trans insanity. You know, I'm a mother of three young kids and I wanted him to close the border. And he did. He did those two things. So I'm, I still would describe myself as a supporter. You know, I'm, I feel betrayed by Trump. I think, you know what he's done, he's been pretty grifty in the office. He has not lived up to the promise on the Middle east wars. And that's a huge one that's going to cost us who knows how much down the line. I, too, worry a lot about domestic terror attacks and response and a possible nuclear spiral in the Middle East. But what do you say to people who say, well, what's the alternative? You know, like, you didn't want Kamala Harris to win. Right. Neither of us could have stood for that. So, like, had, if you had it to do over again, what would you have done?
- [54:35]
Tucker Carlson
Well, I don't know that I feel bad about voting for Trump. I, I would never vote for Kamala. First of all, I'm never going to vote. I'm opposed to abortion, and that's just a bottom line issue for me. Like, I'm never going to change that. I really mean it. It's at the kind of, the top of my list of things I care about. So I'm never going to vote for a pro abortion candidate ever. I would never vote for Kamala Harrison. She was an idiot, obviously. So I don't, I don't really feel bad about choosing Trump in that binary. What I feel bad about is getting up and saying, no, you know, vote for Trump. No more wars. And that just turned out not to be true. And, and by the way, I'm not a Trump hater. I've noticed my whole, I've known Trump for 25 years, and I've noticed in the last 10 years that people who organize their lives around Trump, pro or con, don't tend to thrive. They tend to become irrational. If you hate Trump too much, if you love Trump too much, it's not good for you. He's a man. He's got good qualities, he's got weaknesses. I'm happy to describe his good qualities. He's got a million good qualities. So. But I've just never put Trump at the center of my life either way. And I would not recommend doing that again, positive or negative. It's not good to obsess over another person unless you happen to be married to the person, unless it's that obsession is love. I just think it's unhealthy, super unhealthy to treat our leaders like gods or devils. They're not. They're just people. I'm just mad that he betrayed the country on this war. And I do think I have a million concerns. And the trans question is definitely one of them, for sure. And immigration too, for sure. However, war, when you read the history of nations, civilizations rise and fall is determined primarily by war. Nothing changes a civilization more quickly, more profoundly, more permanently than war. And so that's just my read on history and the nature of life. And so you got to pay attention to the wars and because we have an all volunteer force and it's kind of a cast. Like people who fight our wars are usually the children of people who fought our wars. Like it's a specific kind of world that fights our wars. And that means. And they're great at it. Of course there are upsides to that, but it means that most of us are so detached from the cost of war that it's very easy to support them because you don't have a good sense of the downside. And there's also something about getting older that tends to make some people bloodthirsty. I don't know why that is. But you know, the Rupert Murdoch's and the Lindsey Grahams, it's like people over 70, I hate to say this, tend to be pretty cavalier about killing. Maybe because they're not exposed or they don't love their grandchildren or they don't care about their country or they're on their way out. I don't know what it is, dementia, but there is almost a one to one connection between age and a willingness to commit other people's children to war. You see this, you see it in the poll.
- [57:19]
Megyn Kelly
I mean I, I have a contempt. So yeah, I'm in a different place.
- [57:23]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, exactly.
- [57:24]
Megyn Kelly
Different place.
- [57:24]
Tucker Carlson
That's right.
- [57:25]
Megyn Kelly
And a lot of my audience feels the same, like their moms, who may have been more pro war post, post 911 it was one thing, but we are not living in a post 911 world in the way we were back in 2002, 2003 and 4 when we were launching these retaliatory. Well, the retaliatory war in Afghanistan and then the, you know, unnecessary war in Iraq. We're not, we're in a different place. We have to be honest about the cost of those wars, the lies that we were told by our government and so on. But what happens to Trump now? Right, because with these, with these terrible approval numbers, with the midterms all but lost already to the Republicans, he basically becomes a lame duck after those midterms one way or another. Because the 2028 presidential election gets into full swing after midterms and all the focus goes on the new person, not on the one who's holding the office. And especially if he's got a Democrat controlled House, God forbid, a Democrat controlled House, Senate too. He's, there's nothing, there's no legislation that's going to get through. Not that any did his first year. You know, we had one piece of big legislation. Well too, we had the taxes extended and tax Cuts and we had the Lake and Riley Act. But in any event, so what happens to Trump now?
- [58:36]
Tucker Carlson
You know, on Inauguration Day, I got up really early and I went to church with Trump and Charlie Kirk. I sat with Charlie Kirk right behind Trump in church and I had a whole. And I said my prayers and I had a lot of thoughts about what this new world was going to look like and all of them were wrong. So it's so important to remember that, that we're just not good at predicting the future. You know, we imagine like this is going to happen in November, in the midterms, maybe, maybe not. Like, we don't really know. I do believe it's clear that volatility is coming for sure and there's going to be a lot of change and it doesn't mean everyone's going to get hurt. So some people will thrive in the middle of it. Bill Ackman will be just fine. He'll be richer than ever. We know that. But a lot of us will be fine too. But some people are going to get hurt. I just, I just feel that really strongly and I feel really sad about it. And I just hope that we can keep our heads one way or the other and just remember that Trump turns 80 next month, you know, and I hope he has a great birthday. I don't wish Trump ill. I never will wish Trump. I always have a gut level affection for Trump. That will never change. However, he will be gone relatively soon and we'll still have this country. And after 10 years of thinking and talking about him all day, every day, I just wonder if we're prepared for what that's going to look like. I don't think things are going well. I think they could be a lot worse. I think there, I can think, imagine other leaders who are both malicious and competent. Trump is incompetent, so that's a good thing in some ways. I mean, Gavin Newsom is not incompetent. He's far more malicious than Trump. I think he's far less transparent than Trump. Like, I don't know, we just need to keep our wits about us and not ping pong from one bad idea to another bad idea. There is a kind of sensible way forward where we minimize the losses, where we strengthen the country to the extent we can, where we find something that every American has in common with every other American. That would be a good start. I don't know. I, I think we can manage this if we stay calm. And just because this version of capitalism is clearly fake and the markets are clearly being manipulated. And, you know, a lot of what we think is real is not real doesn't mean that we need the state to run the economy. For example, just because this war is insane and counterproductive doesn't mean we need to disband the military. I mean, like, there's a way to think about this that's measured and thoughtful and not just reactionary, and I hope that we do.
- [60:59]
Megyn Kelly
The those trades that you made reference to are now the subject of an DOJ and Commodities Future Trading Commission investigation. Just for the listening audience who we've been talking about this a little on the show. They're probing the $2.6 billion in oil trades related to the Iran war. ABC News obtaining the data that they're looking into from the London Stock Exchange Group. They include. On March 23, 15 minutes before Trump announced he would delay the threatened attacks on Iran's power grid, traders bet more than 500 million the oil prices would fall. On April 7, hours ahead of a temporary cease fire announced by Trump, traders bet 960 million that oil prices would fall. On April 17, 20 minutes before Iran's foreign minister announced that the Strait of Hormuz was open, traders bet 760 million that oil prices would fall. On April 21, 15 minutes before Trump announced that he would extend the ceasefire, traders placed a series of bets worth 430 million that oil prices would fall. Thank God they're investigating this, Tucker. Thank God. I actually wondered and worried about whether they would ignore it. I.
- [62:08]
Tucker Carlson
Maybe I'm too cynical. You mentioned 9 11. In the days before 9 11, someone with foreknowledge of the 911 attacks bet big shorts against the airlines and the banks involved in those attacks. And the FBI investigated it solemnly. We got to find out who knew 911 was coming. They found out who did it and they've never to this day released the identities of the person or people who made those bets. So you know, and we have a right to know. We have a right to all 911 files declassified. No one is even trying to. That no one will ever do that. And you have to ask, well, why is that? Why can't we know? I don't know the answer, but we can't even know that. So I'm not, not, I'm not too hopeful that we will find out who did this and that anyone will ever be punished. I will say if you look at the commodities numbers, for example, oil, Brent crude, 100 bucks, really, the Strait of Hormuz has been closed for two months and oil is at 100 bucks a barrel. It was at what, 180 or something like that during the financial crisis in 2008. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Gold, you see, the US Dollar is clearly in retreat. Clearly they're settling. They're settling oil in Luan, in Chinese currency. Like, and gold is at 4700 an ounce. It's not rising. And you have to ask, like, what are the forces that are moving markets? Are they natural forces? Are these the markets that we were told they were supply and demand being the two forces that control the market, or are there other forces? Clearly international markets, equities markets, commodities markets are not what we thought they were and hopefully they will be at some point. But like, one of the things I've learned in the last two months is that, whoa, this is. There's some rigging going on here and it's very distressing. And it's just, it doesn't make any sense. It does not make sense. If you think supply and demand drive marketing, it, it's beyond my understanding. I'm just saying the fundamentals should be reflected in the price of these commodities and they're not.
- [64:12]
Megyn Kelly
Fair point.
- [64:13]
Tucker Carlson
Right. So it's bizarre.
- [64:15]
Megyn Kelly
On the subject of the economy, an American company is struggling mightily. It's called the Daily Wire. And they've reportedly laid off as many as 50 or 60% of their staff. They deny that. They say those numbers are overstated, but they've definitely had massive layoffs over at the Daily Wire. Why do you think that is?
- [64:34]
Tucker Carlson
I knew an old political consultant once, 30 years ago, I was covering a campaign and he said, you know, propaganda works, advertising works, but ultimately reality makes the difference. You can spend a billion dollars advertising a dog food, but if the dogs won't eat it, it's just not going to sell. And I just don't think the dogs are going to eat this dog food. I mean, this, there's, there's more supply than there is demand. In this case, there's an awful lot of Daily Wire and not a lot of people want to consume it. Who is the constituency for more wars? Hey, Americans, shut up and stop complaining. Get back to work. Retirement. As Ben Shapiro famously explained, retirement is immoral. You should be working for him and his family. I guess, I don't know. But the contempt, the pure contempt that Shapiro and not all the people work at Daily Wire, but some of them have shown for their audience, like, is not a long term play. It doesn't work after a while, if you hate your audience if you hate your voters, in the end, you're going to be rewarded with failure. And that's not surprisingly, what they're getting. And I'm. You know, I don't. I don't rejoice over anybody's failure, including Ben Shapiro's. I don't hate Ben Shapiro. I don't even care enough to dislike Ben Shapiro. But I'm just. I just will say I'm not surprised at all. He should go do something else useful. Mm.
- [65:48]
Megyn Kelly
He, a few years ago was on Bill Maher bragging about his bed made of money that he sleeps on every night. And look it up, it's all over the Internet. It was a shocking thing to say. And it's. What? You don't say things like that.
- [66:01]
Tucker Carlson
Right.
- [66:02]
Megyn Kelly
Because it's like that. Then when something like this happens, it feels like karma. And he also, of course, famously or infamously, depending on your pov, tried to kick you out of the conservative movement. Tried to kick Steve Bannon out. Threw me in there for good mention in December. And I do think, regardless of one's feelings, on the three of us, I don't think conservatives are into that kind of policing. It's pretty anti. Antithetical to what makes one a conservative, which is like, hands off, to each his own. We have our points of view. We may fight and disagree, but we don't excommunicate. Over here on Team Rational. No.
- [66:38]
Tucker Carlson
And also money. Worship is bad. I just want to say it. I'm not. I'm hardly a socialist. I don't. I hate socialism, but like money for its own sake. Accumulating money just so you have more money, which is very much. Ben's worldview is disgusting. Like, that's not. When is that. Since when is that virtuous? It's not. Not. It's anti Christian, for one thing. It's very clear. Jesus is not for communism. That's not the point I'm making. Sorry. But money for its own sake is a dead end. It actually doesn't make you happy. Debt makes you miserable. Poverty hurts. But accumulating money, bragging about how much money you have, measuring your value by money, these are contemptible things and all. We've lost the ability to say that on the right. Because people whip around, they're like, oh, you. Are you Ocasio Cortez now? Or it's like, it's so stupid. No, I'm not Ocasio Cortez, whoever that is. That absurd person. No, but we do not worship money because that's low and disgusting. In fact, our Bible calls it evil, the root of evil. And we should just say that it's just true. It's like accumulating money for its own sake is ugly. That was always been the irony.
- [67:47]
Megyn Kelly
And yeah, is the same man is accusing you and me for that matter of chasing clicks for the, for opposing the Iran war. And yesterday there was a soundbite of me on with Mark Halperin on his show talking about how I my understanding is that you've had an influx of young viewers and some Muslims now that are taking another look at the Tucker Carlson show because you've, you've been somewhat defensive of Islam, just, just the blatant attacks on it as a religion. And I also said something that you and I talked about months ago, which was, as I now see what Israel does to you, I mean, truly like its emissaries for sure, have unleashed a vicious campaign against yours truly on social media and elsewhere. It's fine. I mean, we're handling it. But as I now see what they do, it does cause me to reevaluate what other propaganda has been out there that I've fallen for that's coming from a foreign government. You know, you and I discuss this. So I'm going to show you the sound bite and then I'll tell you what they're saying about it. Watch. Like, he's gotten very, very popular lately, I read with Muslim viewers because he's been standing up for Islam. You know, and I have to tell you, Mark, it's been something I've noticed just since I've gotten a sort of more clear eyed on Israel that a lot of the anti Muslim rhetoric that's put out there originates with people who are very, very pro Israel who kind of need us to demonize them. And I've taken a look recently at my own rhetoric on this to say, like, have I been manipulated? I want to make sure I'm not getting manipulated. But I think he's having a lot of Muslim viewers flock to him. I know for a fact he has a lot of young men flocking to him. And so while he may have lost some contingent of the Fox News audience that's very, very pro Israel and, you know, pro Trump. And you can't say anything about Trump. For every one of those who leaves, there is another newer, younger audience member who does want to hear these traditional lines challenged and hear just new independent thinking. I mean, I'm experiencing some of that myself and tucker, probably times 10. Okay, so what happened, interestingly, in response to that clip Online yesterday was a torrent of demands by the Israel Firsters and some regular conservatives. I mean, demanding that I, in their view, return to Muslim hate. That any deviation off of Muslims are bad, universally bad, is not acceptable and makes you of the left, was the accusation. And you know, you're just out there for clicks. It's like nothing I've done is for clicks. If anything, my stance on the Iran war and Trump attacking me hasn't been particularly helpful. But it's sincere and you know, you gotta be honest about who you are and where you stand. And I have been blown away by how openly the Israel first crowd is demanding that I and others hate Muslims or else, or what we're going to be called empty vessels. We're going to be like shamed for having said things that are questioning about Islam. I'm not real pro on like Islamic leaders in America. I still stand by that. But I am reevaluating some of the things that I swallowed hook, line and sinker, Tucker, because I now see we've all been manipulated. You have no idea how ubiquitous and powerful aipac Israel, its lobby, its paid agents. I mentioned Brad Pascal the other day, who's registered as a foreign agent for Israel now and runs Salem Media Group. I mean, there are a lot of those folks in our nation pushing propaganda on us. And I frankly think I've been too trusting.
- [71:31]
Tucker Carlson
Well, this was one of the concerns about immigration 100 years ago, that people would come to this country and import with them their own ancient blood feuds and then impose them on the rest of us. And, you know, I'm American and I don't, I don't have to sign on to your blood feud. You know, if you're Armenian and you demand I hate all Turks. No, I'm not doing that. I mean, you may hate Turks, you may have good reason, Turks, whatever, but I don't hate Turks. I'm. I kind of reserve the right to form my own bigotries. And one of the reasons that I try to retreat from the world regularly in the woods or sauna or whatever is just to kind of get. Is just to come to center to what I believe. I'm a Christian, which is an exclusive claim. Okay, So I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe you get to God through Jesus. That's exclusively through Jesus. So I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a Jew, I'm not a Hindu, not a Sufi. I'm a Christian. On the other hand, I just like reverent people. And anyone who bows down before God and admits I'm not God five times a day doesn't share my theology. We don't have the same view of how you get to heaven. But that person is not by definition my enemy.
- [72:35]
Megyn Kelly
Me.
- [72:35]
Tucker Carlson
People who I have a problem with are those who espouse violence and hatred, who lie, who think it's okay to lie. People with a point of view that is not universal. The Christian worldview, and by the way, also the Muslim worldview is a universal worldview. Anybody can come to this faith. That's my worldview. That's. I was born into it, I believe it, it's sincere. And so anyone else who has that worldview, I'm willing to be friends with. I'm not going to hate you because your parents did something that somebody else objects to. I'm stopped playing along with that. And I knew that I would be attacked as like a Muslim lover or whatever. I, I don't know. I'm not a Muslim lover. I'm a people lover until proven otherwise. And I'm just not going to play along at all with that kind of stuff. And at this stage of my life, I just don't care because it's not about the money for me, honestly. I've never taken a dollar from a Muslim or anyone else. I have no debt, I have no investors, and I don't seek to be a billionaire. So I'm not in crypto. So at this point it's like, what are you going to do about it? Call me a Muslim lover? Okay, okay, go ahead. So what?
- [73:46]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, no, same. It's like I don't. Anybody who thinks I'm opposing Trump for clicks hasn't followed the history of our relationship.
- [73:55]
Tucker Carlson
And by the way, I don't think
- [73:56]
Megyn Kelly
it's ups and downs.
- [73:58]
Tucker Carlson
Hasn't made your life easier, that's for sure.
- [74:01]
Megyn Kelly
Definitely not. But it's like I also can't wake up in the morning and look my audience, you know, in the figurative eye and lie about how I feel on something this big, you know, on anything. Why would I like you? I, I'm fine, independent, you know, as an independent, I'm fine financially and I don't need to do it. And so people will like it or they won't like it. I think most of the audience, even if they disagree, will forgive it. You know, it's like we talk about a lot of things on this show. That's not even the main thrust of this particular show. It never has been. Foreign policy. But it's crazy to me, the attempts from this Mike Lawler resolution to the online hate campaign to silence this point of view. You are not allowed, at least as a conservative or a right winger or somebody who's perceived to be on the right side of the aisle, to be opposed to this war or to be in any way soft on Muslims. My God is like, you know what? Fuck off. I'll be whatever I want to be, and if I want to reevaluate any POVs at 55, I'll do it. Too bad.
- [75:01]
Tucker Carlson
Amen. That's exactly right. But did you think when you campaigned for Trump and for MAGA and all that stuff a year and a half ago, less than a year and a half ago, that you'd be signing up for, like, a more rigid version of identity politics and cancellation and censorship and basically screaming in the face of people you disagree with rather than debating them? Did you think you were signing up for that? Because I didn't. I thought I was signing up for the opposite. I voted against that. That's one of the main reasons I campaigned for Trump, is I can't stand that shut up racist. And shut up racist turns out to be maybe not even as annoying as Shut up anti Semite. I mean, they're the same thing.
- [75:40]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [75:40]
Tucker Carlson
I was nowhere near shut up anti Semites. A little harder edged. No one ever accused me of wanting genocide when one of my main instincts in life is anti genocide. I'm against ethnic cleansing. That's why I'm concerned about what Israel's doing. So, like, this whole thing is, like, not what I thought we were getting at all.
- [75:59]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I know. And it's the fact that it's happening on, quote, our side, you know, on the right, is so stunning and upsetting, and I don't even understand it. You know, like, I. Going into this whole thing, even the question of what role does Israel play in our politics and our country seems like something we should be able to debate like gentlemen, to steal a phrase. Right? Like, sure, okay. There are facts. You can be pro it, you can be against it. Why do we have to hate each other over it? I don't. I. I certainly didn't make that the stakes of any of my friendships with the more prominent Jewish members of the media. They did. They all did. You know, I mean, Mark Tson is very, very unhappy with me for not supporting the war. I love Marc, I really do. I care about Marc Thsen a lot. I'm the one who made him a star, Tucker. I put him on the Kelly file night after night, and I know he's a good man. And I know he's very, very pro this war. And I actually don't hold it against him, I. That he comes by it honestly. He's been in that place for many, many years. But he's not somebody who's like, ended a friendship over it. There are others who really have and who have gotten so personal and vicious, most of whom I just don't respond to. I just don't even respond. It's like, whatever, you do your thing. But I've been shocked at how vicious it's been from the right.
- [77:11]
Tucker Carlson
Well, it's to see. I mean, I, as I said, I, I was in Jake Tapper's wedding. Like, I knew Jake Tapper really well. Again, I knew him when he was a Hooters lobbyist. I wish he'd remained one. He was, I think, a pretty good Hooters lobbyist. But to see him, like, attack me as someone who should be censored because he doesn't like my opinion on Netanyahu, it just shows you found the red line. The thing that really matters to other people, the thing that's more important to them than friendship, than love between people, than people in general. Like, this is what they care about most. And it's. It's so revealing that I think it's going to be hard to go back, honestly.
- [77:50]
Megyn Kelly
Yep. All right. Now, speaking of speaking to people in the media, how'd you do with Lulu? How did you enjoy your experience with the new.
- [77:58]
Tucker Carlson
Oh, I loved it. I mean, of course. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, like her.
- [78:03]
Megyn Kelly
Do you like her?
- [78:03]
Tucker Carlson
Oh, yeah. I, you know, I get along. Very few people I don't get along with. Of course, the half. The thing was about Fuentes and, like, who care Fuentes. There was a lot of Fuentes cares about Fuentes. Talk about irrelevant. And I said to her, I wish I'd never interviewed that kid. Not that I may. Again, I don't even really have strong feelings about Fuentes. I just don't care, you know, he doesn't know anything. He's not like a. I don't really know what's the significance of. Significance of Fuentes other than as a tool to get other people to be quiet. And that may be the whole point of Fuentes, by the way. I don't know, but I wonder. But anyway, the point is, what a waste. And so you throw up to the New York Times like, well, actually, I think the members of Congress who are voting for ethnic cleansing in Gaza may be a little bit more morally questionable than Some podcaster who lives in an apartment in Chicago and has no power at all and like her mind was just blown like, oh, Ted Cruz could be more damaging to other human beings than Nick Fuentes, but he's a white nationalist. And I want, I don't want to get sidetracked, but I'll be like, first of all, I'm not even sure what a white nationalist is, but I noticed that white nationalist is the only kind of nationalist that's not allowed. I mean, I believe in universal principles.
- [79:19]
Megyn Kelly
If someone's calling you a white nationalist like 2 minutes ago the New York
- [79:23]
Tucker Carlson
Times never even understood what it was like. I. But I guess my point is like either a standard applies to everybody or it doesn't apply to anybody. I just am a Christian. I believe in universal standards for all people. That's, that's the basis of our law as you know, as an attorney. It. We don't have laws that apply just to some people, then they're not laws, they're just preferences. That's the definition of corruption. And so is if it's okay to be a nationalist, an ethnic nationalist, and we can debate whether it is or should be or whatever, then it's okay for any group to be an ethnic nationalist. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, doesn't matter. But we live in this weird world where there's only one category that's totally immoral and the rest are encouraged. And I just feel like those kind of.
- [80:11]
Megyn Kelly
It all starts with white. I know, but that's why Fuentes race everything.
- [80:15]
Tucker Carlson
Exactly, exactly. And by the way, I think they raised every.
- [80:19]
Megyn Kelly
They're the ones Lulu's paper and the left have made race everything. They're the reason Nick Fuentes is popular. Right? Because the same generation that listens to him has been told nothing other than race is all that matters. You are defined by your skin color. You choose your team because nobody else wants you or likes you or values you. And unfortunately a lot of people have believed it. So they need to do some self reflection over on that side.
- [80:45]
Tucker Carlson
That's gonna happen anytime soon. As soon as, as soon as they catch the people shorting oil futures, they're going to start to self reflect. I think right around when they release the 911 files.
- [81:00]
Megyn Kelly
So they're going to find the people who did the insider trading because I hope there are still some honest brokers. And there's a resentment of rich people and people who cheat and trade, you know, on, on other people's backs in the system. And now, unlike after 9 11, you have the digital media, you know, to keep the story going and, you know, so we can ratchet up the pressure on this in a way that the mainstream maybe wouldn't have and didn't after 9, 11. I mean, I hope, I hope that's what happens. All right, now listen, I have to, I have to get this in before you leave. Thank you so much for introducing us to Buckley Carlson, your brother. I also know Buckley, your son, who's also awesome. But Buckley Carlson, your brother was a special treat. Tucker, thank you for the listening audience who didn't happen to catch. He's. I think you've had him on twice. He's amazing. He's like Tucker uncensored.
- [81:53]
Tucker Carlson
Yes.
- [81:54]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I know you don't censor yourself, but like, if you took away Just like 10% of the like, decorum that Tucker's learned from years of being in the media, you have Buckley sitting there who doesn't give a flying fig what anyone thinks of him. That became very clear. And I speak for America. We fell in love with Buckley. We pulled this piece of the discussion which set it off so perfectly. This is you two Talking about John McCain way back in the day when you were young and coming up as
- [82:26]
Tucker Carlson
kids in DC 27, the Republican Party was completely empty. And I had also lived through empty. What do you mean? They had no principles that they were willing to stand up for. And I had seen, probably the starkest example was John McCain, who I had grown up really respecting. Was at a time in America when people actually celebrated war heroes. I thought he was a war hero at that time. I subsequently learned differently. But it was when he attacked the tobacco industry early on when I was first working for Corporate America, a big PR firm. And he had led the charge against big tobacco and had been a grandstander and a phony. Tobacco was a great American heritage product. And as a consumer who enjoyed tobacco, I always sort of respected it and. But it tied in also with a sense of personal responsibility which we never see now is there was a, you know, you had the freedom from. To smoke. May it be bad for you. Yes. I think every smoker knew was probably bad for you.
- [83:30]
Megyn Kelly
I love that I did not see that. The John McCain thing, like what, what turned the. The Carlson's on John McCain. It was his war on big tobacco. But that set the tone for the rest of the interview and it was no holds barred. So can you just give me a couple of. Give me some insights into the wonderful
- [83:47]
Tucker Carlson
Buckley Carlson, into Uncle Buck, because he's known in our Family. Well, he's a special, smartest person. Uncle buck has probably 15 IQ points on me. He is very intense intellectually, reads constantly like my father. He keeps a book in the car to read at red lights and has been everywhere. You know, I spent all those years in the studio. Uncle Buck was all around the world doing things. Was not exactly cord he was doing, but. But he was just everywhere all the time. So he's just seen a lot. And he's one of these people who's just decided like at, at age 15, it's one of the reasons he didn't make it through boarding school, that he's just going to say what he thinks is true at all times, no matter what. And he loves people, he loves dogs, he loves women. He's just a very warm person. Like my daughters love him. In fact, one of them called me this morning about Uncle Buck and how great he is, but he. So it's not that he's not acting out of rage or anything, he's acting out of love, but also just an unshakable determination to say what he thinks is true at all times. And so it's just funny he's so
- [84:44]
Megyn Kelly
famous and doesn't care what you think in response.
- [84:46]
Tucker Carlson
Oh, in my neighborhood in Northwest D.C. and in our family, we have a big family. Uncle Buck is very famous. Everyone talks about Uncle Buck every day. And it's only been in the last couple of months. All of a sudden he's on the Internet. I'm like, what are you doing on the Internet? I had no idea he was on the Internet because I don't go on the Internet that much.
- [85:01]
Megyn Kelly
His Twitter game is second to none.
- [85:04]
Tucker Carlson
He's unbelievable. No, he's the. He's. Yeah, he's my best friend and my favorite person. But I just, I'm amazed that other people know who he is now. It just cracks me up.
- [85:12]
Megyn Kelly
He's now becoming the dominant conversation in my family too. He was just straight out of central casting. Tucker, with like the tan and the cigarettes and like the suit and like just the grizzle, like. Yeah. On everything. I loved his lack of self protection. Great to see you, my friend. We'll talk again.
- [85:32]
Tucker Carlson
You're the best. Thank you, Megan. Great to see you.
- [85:35]
Megyn Kelly
Lots of love, Tucker. And I should point out we loved Buckley Carlson so much. We invited him to come on this program and he. And he will, he'll be on next month, I hope in person. I don't know. We were trying for that. So I can't wait for that. Yeah, he's coming to the Red Studio. That's going to be super fun. Okay. Coming up next, the man trying to primary Lindsey Graham. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet and that now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack. And that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over two cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more about this@guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. There is something refreshing about a company that focuses on integrity and hard work. With Brooklyn Bedding. I know they built my Aurora Luxe mattress in the USA with high quality materials and real attention to detail. It's that classic American ethos. Do the job right, stand behind your product and build something that lasts. And they delivered it right to my doorstep and I love it. It is so comfortable. Brooklyn Bedding knows sleep is not one size fits all. That's why they offer mattresses for everybody, every sleep style, even in hard to find sizes. Sleep hot Brooklyn Bedding uses copper infused foams and temperature regulating materials to help keep you cool and comfy all night long. Plus you get a 120 night comfort trial with easy returns or swaps. They have earned awards from CNET and Wirecutter proving that they deliver real high quality sleep. You can trust and enjoy just like I do. Go to BrooklynBetting.com and use our promo code Megan at checkout to get 30% off sitewide. That's BrooklynBetting.com use the promo code Megan for 30% off site wide and let them know we sent you at checkout to make sure you get that discount. BrooklynBetting.com promo code M E G Y
- [87:59]
Tucker Carlson
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- [88:32]
Megyn Kelly
Hey, everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app. Next, we turn to an important Republican primary race for U.S. senate in South Carolina. After more than two decades in his role, Lindsey Graham is facing a formidable primary challenge. Mark lynch is a South Carolina businessman, father and deacon, running to bring his business skills and America first attitude to Washington. The Republican primary is set for next month. The question is, does he have a chance? Joining me now, Mark Lynch. Mark, welcome to the show. Do you.
- [89:34]
Mark Lynch
Oh, yes, we sure do, Megan, thank you for having me on today.
- [89:38]
Megyn Kelly
Sure, you bet. So why do you have a chance? Because I just did a quick search and Pulse Opinion Research used Rasmussen Reports licensed methodology for its poll and came up with the following result. Lindsey Graham is 42%, 41%, and you are in second with 21%, which is a big gap to close.
- [89:59]
Mark Lynch
Well, that was towards the end of March. Since then, on April 10, the guy in third place, Paul, Dan's realized with the polling and his not having the funding to really do this race substantially like he wanted to endorse me, he took his name off the ballot, he endorsed me, and he was at 11%. And that was an awesome, humbling, unifying thing to show the Republican Party that he's still all in. His focus is still the same to take out Lindsey Graham. And he's working with me now, supporting me to do that. And when Rasmussen did an informed ballot, it flips. Lindsey falls to 23 and I go to 34% with still some undecided votes. And that was when Paul was still in the, in the, in the polling with 11%.
- [90:51]
Megyn Kelly
So it's what is an informed poll? What do you mean by that?
- [90:55]
Mark Lynch
When they, when the voters know more about me and understand my platform.
- [91:01]
Megyn Kelly
Well, the, even, even without the informed poll, you can see here in the numbers, you got unsure at 22%. So if Paul's voters at 11% in do I see you? You're at potentially at 32%. And then you got unsure at 22. So if you had 32 and Lindsay had 41, you got 22% who you could still get, which is more promising. So there is a chance. I do believe there is a chance, and it needs to happen. Mark.
- [91:27]
Mark Lynch
Yes.
- [91:27]
Megyn Kelly
You tell me, because it sounds to me like you're very, very pro Trump. There's no daylight between you and the president. It's not like an anti Trump thing. So. But you tell me, what is it about Lindsey Graham that led you to file this challenge?
- [91:41]
Mark Lynch
Well, his conservative lifetime voting record is 43% failing. His constitutional voting record is 57% failing. He claims to be pro life, but on his US Senate page, he's from murdering children up to 15 weeks and voted on a bill that puts our tax dollars into a blood pact with Satan. With Obamacare and Medicaid funding Planned Parenthood in nine states to murder babies up until the moment before delivery in the ninth month. That's not a pro life candidate. And our founders of this country, when they wrote the Declaration of Independence, realized we are endowed by our creator God with certain unalienable rights and the first right is the right to life. And he's not supporting that. So he's, he's not really holding up to his oath to defend the US Constitution and to defend us against foreign and domestic enemies. And he's not really a flip flopper. I would call him a traitor with some of the things he does. But he does move to the right during election season so that he looks like he's a Republican again and everybody's tired of it.
- [92:51]
Megyn Kelly
He doesn't seem to pro the right to life if you happen to be a civilian in Gaza or Lebanon or Iran for that matter, either. His bloodlust and I just finished a segment talking about how I have dear friends who are very pro this war in Iran. I disagree with them, but I respect their opinion and I know they come by it honestly and in good faith. Not him. He seems bloodthirsty. Mark, what is, is, what do you make of his rhetoric around this war and his constant pushing for more of it?
- [93:24]
Tucker Carlson
Right.
- [93:25]
Mark Lynch
It's just evil. I mean, even on January 6th, he's, he's, he's crazy. He told, he told the news we should have shot them all in the head. Americans expressing their freedom of speech and grievances against the elections that happened when Trump's election was stolen and 2020, he wanted to shoot all the people on J6 in the head. And they were all let in And
- [93:50]
Megyn Kelly
I didn't know he said that.
- [93:51]
Mark Lynch
Oh, yeah. Yep. You know, so people are tired of it. You know, with Trump's endorsement, everybody is concerned about that. The whole country loves Trump still, whatever respects President Trump. But they've all said in South Carolina and America that endorsement won't save Lindsey Graham this time because Trump's made some bad endorsements. That's okay. We understand that. But we've seen Lindsey's patterns and it's tired. We're all tired of it. Enough's enough. It's time for him to go.
- [94:21]
Megyn Kelly
What? What? Why is it the South Carolinians, who are very sensible people, among the best people, why do they keep electing him?
- [94:30]
Mark Lynch
One reason, Megan, is we have open primaries of all things, so we don't require party registration. So on the, on the primary on June 9, Democrats can cross over and vote in Republican elections and change our election results. That's just crazy. And we can't get it changed because there's so many rhinos in the state House, they'll never vote to close the primaries. So we have stagnation and we just have things we can't get past. So that's how Democrats are voting for Lindsey Graham. And you know, when we first filed In February of 25, Breitbart News organization contacted us and said, we don't know what you're doing, but we've never seen Lindsey move to the right this early in a campaign cycle. So we gave them some knowledge of an article that we had an inter email correspondence between Obama's chief campaign pollster, Paul Harstad, talking to John Podesta, they thought on a private email and they all agreed that Lindsey Graham would be the greatest ally to the Democrat Party they had ever had. So that tells the whole story. That's who he is.
- [95:38]
Megyn Kelly
Wow. Well, I certainly hope you manage to pull this out because America's had enough of Lindsey Graham. I hope the South Carolinian people do the right thing and relieve us of this burden. We need a true conservative in there who's not a warmonger, who's not bloodthirsty, who's just an honest, true red conservative person. And you seem like the man, Mark. Thank you. Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring and we'll continue to watch it.
- [96:02]
Mark Lynch
Thank you, Megan. I would tell the voters, if I can go to lynch4senate.com what can can. What can we do? People always say, call me, tell me what we can do. Pray for us.
- [96:13]
Tucker Carlson
This is spiritual warfare.
- [96:15]
Mark Lynch
Everybody has one of these. Contact your friends and family and tell them about me and support our campaign because it takes y' all out there. I'm the guy that's willing to go help me get there and let's replace him and give America a wonderful birthday present on its 250th anniversary. We'll remove a traitor in Congress.
- [96:36]
Megyn Kelly
All the best to you. Thanks for coming on.
- [96:39]
Mark Lynch
Thank you.
- [96:40]
Megyn Kelly
Wow, that'll be a fascinating contest. I mean, if he can keep that tight at all, he's got a shot. I realize it's a long shot, but. But it's there. And I do think Lindsey Graham's been more in the news negatively than he usually has been as he approaches yet another reelection. If you are in South Carolina, please, please consider Mark lynch and go to lynch4senate.com like he said. Check out his platform. I think you're gonna be very happy if you're a Republican or a right leaning Independent. Okay, in the time we have left, I've gotta spend a minute on Spencer Pratt who was a senior star star at the LA mayor's debate last night. Watching him against Karen Bass and that other woman, Nithya Ramen, it was a thing of beauty. This guy was real. He was raw, he was authentic. He was unafraid. My favorite clip is when he rolled his eyes at the one. It was like he. He kind of made fun of her. He was funny. I enjoyed him thoroughly. And it doesn't appear that my friend Tish Hyman made the stage. That doesn't bode well for her numbers. But I am totally behind Spencer Pratt here after listening to him last night. Let me give you an example in Sat 29.
- [97:51]
Tucker Carlson
I will go below the Harbor Freeway
- [97:53]
Megyn Kelly
tomorrow with her and we can find
- [97:55]
Tucker Carlson
some of these people she's going to offer treatment for. She's going to get stabbed in the neck. These people do not want a bed. They want fentanyl or super meth. These ideas come cost us over $400 million to house for 670. What did you say? 3,000 people for 400 million. This is absolute failure for both of them.
- [98:14]
Megyn Kelly
They're a team. So the only question is whether Californians are going to respond as they absolutely should to him, to that kind of Frank Tuck. She's going to get stabbed in the neck if she goes down to these homeless camps and tries to, you know, offer them her therapy or whatever. He's exactly right, as we all know. And that's why she would never go there and. And none of us do. So he's talking frankly to Angelenos and they know it. They know what he's saying is real and he's nonpartisan. This guy. He's not a Republican. He's I think, running as an independent. And he sounded like an independent when you heard him talk last night. Here's a little bit more in Sat 28. First off, Mayor Bass and I are
- [98:49]
Tucker Carlson
definitely not working together. I blame this person for burning my house and my parents house in my town and all my neighbors down. I am not working with Mayor Bass. Second off, if I wanted to run against anybody, it would be the council member who is terrible.
- [99:02]
Megyn Kelly
Mayor Bass has at least been a mayor for almost four years and has,
- [99:07]
Tucker Carlson
as she talked about earlier, the unions, all the unions endorse Mayor Bass. You think it's easier to run against the incumbent mayor with all the unions or a random city council member who's been a failure for six years? I would much rather run against Councilwoman Rob and thank you very much.
- [99:24]
Megyn Kelly
So that was brilliant because he dissed the councilwoman as like a nobody, which she. She took issue with later. You could see she was offended he didn't. He treated her like she was like not some star. And also dissed Karen Bass in the same fell swoop. You could, you could feel his contempt for his two adversaries in a way that was refreshing. It wasn't a turn off. It was like, yes, I think a lot of people are feeling it. Karen Bass tried to get up there and blame the L A fire debacle on everyone other than herself. Everyone. And he was there. He's living in a trailer after his house. He lost his house, he said, with the receipts. And he knew the facts and the figures. This is a former reality TV star, but he has studied up and he knew his facts in the figures about what was going on with the water reservoirs, what the winds were on the night. Because Karen Bass likes to blame the winds for a reason why we couldn't have the helicopters dropping the water as opposed to the reservoirs being empty. He had all of his stats and figures and was firing them off with ease. The other two were caught flat footed and looked embarrassed frankly, that they didn't come to play. Here's the sound. But I mentioned for the listening audience and for the listening audience, you got to go to YouTube just towards the end of the show to see this, but it's worth it. Such a good clip. Watch. I'm not sure how to respond to that vision of Los Angeles. This is a MAGA Republican's idea of what Los Angeles looks like. This is. This is really not. This is. So what happens in the clip is she's like kind of shaking her head, you know, from side to side, like, I'm at a loss here. And they cut to him in the middle of this is what a MAGA Republicans, which he's not, by the way, a view of Los Angeles is. And he just does a quick imitation of her with the shaking of the head. Very funny. Very good political instincts. And you know what you walk away thinking at the end of the debate is he's just likable. If you're anything other than a hard leftist, he is likable and he instills confidence. And I think there's something about somebody who's been personally affected by the incompetence of the current ruler, Karen Bass, that will be inspirational and hopefully motivational for the people who live in la. Please save la. Save la. They. You guys need Spencer Pratt. Don't miss the show tomorrow. Maureen Callahan comes back on the show. That's gonna be fun. Thank you for listening to the Megan Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.
- [102:09]
Tucker Carlson
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- [102:19]
Megyn Kelly
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- [102:21]
Tucker Carlson
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