Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments | Ep. 1203

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show — “Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk & More: Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments”

Episode 1203 | November 28, 2025

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Overview

In this special episode, Megyn Kelly revisits the most memorable and news-making moments from “The Megyn Kelly Live Tour,” which traveled across the country showcasing open, honest, and provocative conversations with some of the biggest figures in politics, media, and culture. She features highlights from her discussions with Donald Trump Jr., Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, Piers Morgan, Erika Kirk, Maureen Callahan, and more. The episode delves into themes of grief and resilience, the shifting landscape of conservative politics, cancel culture and wokeness, free speech, media feuds, identity politics, and deeply personal stories of loss and faith.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grief, Resilience & Legacy: Donald Trump Jr. & Erika Kirk

Dealing with Trauma and Adversity (03:18–12:57)

• Megyn introduces the tour’s context amid the tragic death of Charlie Kirk, discussing whether to proceed with the tour as planned.
• Donald Trump Jr. reflects on Charlie Kirk’s legacy, his talent, and why it was more important than ever to continue:

  “The best way to honor Charlie’s legacy is…to be unafraid, to not back down.” (03:47)

• Don Jr. shares the personal impact of surviving numerous subpoenas, impeachments, and even assassination attempts on his father:

  “I’ve done more hours of congressional testimony, you know, for treason…a crime punishable by death. That became like my average Tuesday. You know, it’s like, they’re going to try to kill you again, Don. I’m like, it’s fine. Can I catch lunch first?” (07:04)

• The Trump family’s coping mechanism is “shoving it down,” ignoring trauma to keep going, and how difficult that can be on empathy and on their children.

  “It makes it actually very hard to be sensitive to other people’s ideas and emotions.” (11:24)

• Don Jr. describes the adrenaline addiction in high-stakes political fights and the inability to return to a “normal” life after such intensity.

Running for Office? (12:57–17:40)

• Don Jr. gives a classic noncommittal answer to future political runs:

  “There may be a time, and if it’s required of me…and I can do that for my country, it’s an honor. …But I don’t know that I have the ego, actually, which is ironic…there’s like a level of hubris you actually need to be president. I think that I’m like…I don’t know.” (14:57)

• Discussion about the “bench” in the GOP and the evolution of America First/MAGA as the party’s core identity.

On Trump Family Dynamics

• Stories about Donald Trump Sr.’s legendary energy and work ethic:

  “I’ve rarely seen him sleep. …even this last election…I saw him go two all-nighters in a row.” (24:53)

• The “scariest Donald Trump is a bored Donald Trump.” (18:37)
• The party’s expectation that Trump will keep influencing the GOP for years to come.

Lawfare & Political Retribution (19:41–24:40)

• Megyn and Don Jr. discuss lawfare, justified prosecution, and “accountability” versus revenge.
• Don Jr.’s take on Republican weakness in D.C. and the need to “fight the same way the Democrats do.”

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2. Platforming, Morality, and Conservative Schisms: Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk

Interviewing Nick Fuentes — Media Ethics & Controversy (27:23–47:31)

• Ben Shapiro defends his controversial interview with Nick Fuentes, stating:

  “I’ve interviewed everybody—most of them bad people, to be honest…if you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, it’s hard not to see the human in the person, even if he’s a cannibal.” (29:35)

• Ben distinguishes between criticizing governments (including Israel) and crossing into unchristian, collective hatred:

  “It is totally illegitimate and…unchristian to attack people for their DNA. …We do not punish the innocent. Period.” (31:20) “Collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization. Period.” (35:21)

• Tucker’s philosophy: Interviewing “bad people” to understand—not endorse—them. Rebuts criticism for “platforming.”
• The panel highlights problems with both left-wing and right-wing identity politics and decries the erosion of Western values around individual responsibility.

Schism Between Tucker Carlson & Charlie Kirk (and Ben Shapiro) (49:21–62:27)

• Charlie Kirk accuses Tucker Carlson of “glossing” or legitimizing Fuentes instead of challenging him, which Kirk sees as damaging for the conservative movement:

  “He is a Hitler-loving troll…And Tucker…decided…he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves….to essentially normalize Fuentes, act as a sort of gateway drug…as an ideological launderer of bad ideas.” (49:21)

• Kirk describes the breakdown in friendship and alliance with Tucker as a result of the Fuentes interview, not personal attacks, but about defending the “moral boundaries” of conservatism.
• Kirk also takes aim at Candace Owens and others, stressing the need to speak out against both the right and the left when lines are crossed.
• Megyn contextualizes the feud as a demonstration of differing approaches to dissent and public debate in the conservative space.

The Israel Debate & the Role of American Foreign Policy

• The group debates whether US politics have become obsessed with Israel at the expense of American interests.
• Ben Shapiro and Megyn point out hypocrisy and political tribalism on both the left and right.
• The entire exchange exposes deep rifts in post-Trump conservatism around issues of loyalty, foreign alliances, and acceptable discourse.

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3. Culture Wars, Cancel Culture & Woke Fatigue

Royalty, Wokeness, and Hypocrisy (67:47–100:33)

• Maureen Callahan, Piers Morgan, Megyn Kelly roast Meghan Markle, Michelle Obama, and Kim Kardashian for what they see as performative victimhood and hypocrisy:

  “She’s a bully. And I…her acting career, whatever she’s trying to do is going to fail, just like everything else she touches fails.” (71:59, Kelly) “I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island. Meghan Markle, Kathy Griffin, that’s where I send them. The women of The View. …It’s always this victim card. And I think on the left, these Democratic elites have realized playing the victim card is profitable.” (92:13, Piers Morgan)

• Piers Morgan describes his public resignation over refusing to apologize to Meghan Markle and criticizes cancel culture:

  “Never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologize, never give them an inch. …stand up for yourself and walk the f*** out.” (71:48)

• Discussion of the “woke mind virus,” “joyless” activists, and free speech crackdowns, especially in the UK.

War on Language and Gender

• The BBC controversy over using “pregnant people” instead of “pregnant women,” and the broader campaign to erase gendered language, are sharply criticized.

  “It’s about the complete disintegration of gendered language that benefits women.” (76:09, Callahan)

Trans Issues and Women’s Sports

• Erika Kirk (104:17–133:33) shares her perspective as a former college athlete and mother:

  “Women’s sports is one of those [special things]. …Those girls have worked so hard for their position, and to have it taken away from them by someone who couldn’t rank in their own sport…it’s demoralizing.” (131:19)

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4. Personal Stories, Faith, and Loss: Erika Kirk Reflects on Charlie Kirk

Love, Faith, and Grieving Publicly (103:21–147:44)

• Erika Kirk shares intimate details about her relationship with the late Charlie Kirk — how they met, fell in love, and built a family.
• She describes the deep faith that defined their marriage, how they always lived with the sense of impermanence, and how faith is now her support in grief.
• Erika recounts “signs” from Charlie after his death and describes forgiving his accused killer at the public memorial:

  “Forgiveness is an action, not an emotion…I’m okay with the world not understanding me. …As Christians we’re called to be in the world, not of it.” (125:58) “Anything that I could ever wish upon him or that family would pale in comparison of the justice of God. …Our God is sovereign, but he’s also very just.” (147:44)

• She urges young couples to prioritize family and warns not to delay having children due to career, based on personal experience.

Charlie’s Posthumous Book, Sabbath, and the Lessons of Rest (136:27–143:11)

• Erika presents Charlie’s forthcoming book, “Stop in the Name of God,” focused on the healing power of the Sabbath and intentional rest.
• Reads a journal entry by Charlie on gratitude, discipline, and “the battle against the mind is Satan’s playground.”
• Erika expresses that righteous living and radical forgiveness are the family’s path forward.

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Highlighted Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Donald Trump Jr.:

  “If there’s one thing we had no shortage of, it was guys that didn’t know what the hell they were doing. We didn’t need someone else who also didn’t know what the hell they were doing. But these guys were persuasive. And I sat down and in five minutes, I was like, oh. Oh.” (04:53)

• Ben Shapiro on Western civilization:

  “We do not punish the innocent. We only punish the guilty…That’s not racism. …It’s the answer to racism. It’s the answer to antisemitism.” (31:39–35:21)

• Charlie Kirk on ideological lines:

  “Friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong.” (55:15)

• Megyn Kelly on cancel culture:

  “Never apologize, never clarify. …We know this. …It doesn’t work.” (71:17)

• Erika Kirk:

  “Control is an absolute illusion. The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head, and he knows the number of our days.” (117:40)

• Piers Morgan on woke elites:

  “It’s always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly. Like she says, she grew up on the south side of Chicago…but then she’s like, can you believe I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House?” (92:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Starting the Tour Amid Loss — Donald Trump Jr.: 03:18–12:57
• Political/Campaign Reflections (Don Jr.): 12:57–17:40
• Lawfare and Political Payback: 19:41–24:40
• Fuentes Interview — Ben Shapiro’s Rationale: 27:23–47:31
• Tucker Carlson/Charlie Kirk Schism: 49:21–62:27
• Culture Wars & Cancel Culture (Markle, Obama, etc.): 67:47–100:33
• Erika Kirk: Love, Loss & Faith: 103:21–147:44

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Tone and Language

True to The Megyn Kelly Show’s ethos, the conversations are candid, irreverent, and at times combative—but deeply personal when the subject turns to loss and faith. Banter among panelists veers from biting satire to moments of real vulnerability, with the underlying through-line being a call for authenticity, conviction, and, above all, a refusal to be intimidated by prevailing trends or public pressure.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode encapsulates the current crossroads of American conservative culture—torn between old alliances and new priorities, grappling with how to engage with “dangerous” ideas, and seeking to defend principles amid unprecedented external and internal challenges. It's a tapestry of personal testimonies, political feuding, and cultural commentary, delivering both laughter and gravity.

Listeners will emerge with a nuanced sense of the deep divides, personal stakes, and enduring hopes animating today’s political and cultural right.

Transcript

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Learn [e-mail] manufacturing welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East. Hey everyone, it's Megyn Kelly and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your friends and family today. We are bringing you some of the most memorable moments from the Megyn Kelly Live Tour which came to an end last week. It was so great to see the tens of thousands of you across the country and now we want to look back at some of what you may have missed. We had Donald Trump Jr. Kick us off on night one. That was amazing. In Texas. He was fired up and in rare form. I spoke with Tucker Carlson in New York, followed by Ben Shapiro in Florida on back to back nights that made tons of news earlier this month. We had so much fun with Piers Morgan in Miami and Link Lauren in Texas. And of course it came to an end last weekend in a powerful interview with Erica Kirk in Arizona. So go check out some of the memorable moments. Have a great weekend. Listen to it here and I will see you Monday with Mark Halperin. I've been talking a lot about Riverbend Ranch because I love their steaks. Well, this holiday season, express your love with a very special gift of premium steaks from Riverbend Ranch. They have spectacular beef bundles that are wonderful gifts to to yourself, to your friends, to your family. Their prime rib roast and holiday bundles are only available while supplies last and they are going fast. For the last 35 years, Riverbend Ranch has been creating an elite Angus herd by using ultrasound technology to identify genetically superior cattle with a focus on flavor and tenderness. All Riverbend Ranch cattle are born and raised in the usa. They never use growth hormones or antibiotics, and the beef is processed right at the ranch in their award winning USDA inspected processing facility. Avoid the costly middlemen because the beef is sent directly from Riverbend Ranch to your home. This is not your average Black Angus beef. Order from riverbendranch.com, use the promo code Megan for 20 bucks off your first order, and let me know what you think. That's Riverbendranch.com promo code. M, E, G, Y, N. Before you go, you have to do your best. Donald Trump.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

We're gonna have to do some Donald Trump, guys.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, let's talk about why we're here, right? I mean, we were gonna do this tour. We announced this tour two days before Charlie was killed. And then the question was raised by basically everybody, do we still do this tour? And I know how I felt, and I know how you felt. It's not exactly how my husband felt, but we're here, and it's more important right now to be here than ever.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

100%. I mean, the best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to actually be out here, to doing this, to be unafraid, to not back down, I think.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Thank you. I know I was supposed to do something with him literally the week after that. And as you mentioned sort of in the intro, you know, I met Charlie, I think he was 19 or just turned 20. And it was 2015 at the beginning of that cycle. And a couple friends of mine, actually from Texas were like, you know, you have to meet this guy. He's great. He's charismatic, and he knows everything about politics. I'm like, wow, that sounds great. Because no one here knows anything. I've told you this before. But it was like when they were like, you're colluding with Russia. I'm like, guys, if you knew what was going on in that campaign, like, we couldn't collude to order a cheeseburger. Okay, relax.

[Megyn Kelly]

Slow your rol.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Relax, Adam. Shiv. Like, give me a break. But, you know, they're. They're going on and on about how great this guy is, and they're like, okay, well, he's. You know, he just turned 20. I'm like, just, okay, enough. Like, stop.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're good.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

You know, if. If there's one thing we had no shortage of, it was guys that didn't know what the hell they were doing. We didn't need someone else who also didn't know what the hell they were doing. But these Guys were persuasive. And I sat down and in five minutes, I was like, oh, oh.

[Megyn Kelly]

Describe that Charlie versus the Charlie we knew before he was taken from us.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Honestly, it was the same. You just knew it was a generational talent. You know, I don't know much, but I think, you know, if there's one thing I've probably proven to be fairly decent at in the last decade or so is sort of just understanding talent. And I recognized it in an instant. I mean, it was literally five minutes. I'm like, okay, interview's over. Like, you're traveling with me. And, you know, he spent the next, you know, six, seven months. It was everything. I mean, he'd be making calls. I mean, I have great pictures of election day 16, and I think I did. It was close to like, 75 radio interviews. We were just sort of moving east to west as the polls were shutting down. I'm, you know, screaming at Sean Hannity be like, just get me on in western Florida because there's a time difference there and I can still get a couple people to the polls because, you know, whatever wasn't showing up and, you know, Charlie was basically just in the background operating, you know, by Twitter and other social media handles from my desk in my office as I'm going through this. And it was just such an amazing experience. But again, you know, he. He perhaps got better, but he was always so good. He was just going to be better than everyone else anyway. It didn't take much maturation. He just always had it.

[Megyn Kelly]

In the past couple of years, Don, you've been subpoenaed and investigated more than any human on ear. So is your family. So is your dad. Your dad, they tried to throw him in prison. Not to mention the impeachments and all the investigations and the civil lawsuits. And then on top of that, they actually tried to kill him repeatedly.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Twice.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah. You saw your dad get shot in the ear. You saw three of his supporters get shot, one of whom died, two others of whom got shot as well, and then Charlie got shot and killed and taken from us. This is your life over the past couple of years. How has that changed you?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Honestly, it's hard. I mean, there's an element, I guess, you know, I got some of that Trump gene that it just makes you sort of go harder. It's not normal. It's not always not normal. It's not normal. It's not always good. I have that for better or worse, I think, you know, yeah, I've been as more subpoenaed than probably just about any human being in our family. Certainly has. I think I've done more hours of congressional testimony, you know, for treason. Right. I mean, you know, a crime punishable by death. That became like my average Tuesday. You know, it's like, they're going to try to kill you again, Don. I'm like, it's fine. Can I catch lunch first?

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, most of us are like, I got to get those Halloween decorations up. It's coming. I'm on deadline.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah, no, it was my lawyer's like, you're the greatest witness ever. It's like, it's not because I'm actually good at it. I've just done it so much. Eventually you're going to develop some sort of talent for it. I mean, it's, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you miss it A little?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

You know, not that so much. No. But, you know, not that. But it was interesting, right? I think, you know, at the end of each one of these election cycles and now, you know, you know, three presidential cycles and then, you know, six midterm cycles, you combine them all or whatever it may have been. There was a time sort of at the end of 16 especially, and at the end of 20, you're in the throes of it, and I think it was October 2020. I think I did 104 rallies that month. So that's four a day. And I don't mean like, you know, a lunch or a breakfast. I mean like, you know, 300 to 10,000 people in a room four times a day, 31 days straight. And it's sort of brutal. And at the end of it, you're like, I just sort of want to be done with it. 16 especially, right? Because I got sucked out of like the world in which I lived, you know, real estate. And I was, you know, behind a desk or on a job site. And I was like, sort of want to go back to that? And for about a week. It was great.

[Megyn Kelly]

And you were non controversial before all this too?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah, no, I mean, just for Beloved. Not the same level. Yeah, before that. No, it was awesome. I could live in New York City. I got invited to the cool person parties. That all went away. But no, honestly. But there was a component of that that was also cathartic, right? It was, you know, that obligatory lunch you all do with some friend you haven't seen in 10 years, but you do it once every other year. You go and you're like, why am I here? You know, we don't really stay in touch. And it's like, you'd see all these people, and they'd. They'd text you like, I love what you're doing. And you're like, oh, wow, that's great. And you, like, look on their Facebook pages and you're like, trump's a terrorist. He's a Nazi. It's. I'm like, I hate these people so much. I'm like, well, which one is it? Because you can't be my friend and also do that. Like, you can disagree with me politically. I mean, I had friends that didn't agree with a lot of what we were doing, but they'd still, like, I'm writing a check to your campaign because I just believe in you. And even if we don't agree on much politically, like, you're still a friend. And, like, those guys are great. Those guys were.

[Megyn Kelly]

You can handle the honesty.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah, that. That I can deal with. It was the guys, like, clout chasing on one side and then kissing your ass on the other. That I didn't appreciate.

[Megyn Kelly]

But I wonder, because you talk about the gene. You've got the gene, and it is a crazy gene. It's a great gene. And I really have been thinking about this a lot because I now, at this point in my life, I think a lot about how do we handle trauma? Like, what's the best way of handling trauma? And I really have come over to my husband's Presbyterian way of just shoving it down. I really do believe, honestly, like, leaning into your traumas and they call it ruminating is very bad for you. We've really. We were raised by Oprah, and we were raised by wolves. She misled us. The Trump gene is the way.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Well, yes and no. Right. I was sort of getting there before, and, you know, I sort of ramble. But, you know, you. You get there and it feels normal, but you also then suppress all of it, and it's just like, it doesn't matter. Put it aside, go back and fight. Doesn't matter. Put it aside, go fight.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, literally, in your dad's case, in the moment where the bullets are still flying.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Correct. And, you know, we all sort of did that to some extent. Him more than anyone. But then you go back and you're, you know, I have five young kids, you know, and kids, you know, they have some sort of problem, and, like, well, they're literally trying to jail me. They're trying to shut down our businesses. They just tried to kill Grandpa. Like, you know, it's just, you know, whatever they're going through is still a big thing for Them. But you can't even think of it as a big thing because it's like, give me a break.

[Piers Morgan]

It's nothing.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

But it's big for them. And so you definitely put a lot of that sort of emotion aside. It's like you've just been a, you know, a beast in a cage, prodded for a while that you'd sort of adjust to that normalcy. But it makes it actually very hard to be sensitive to other people's ideas and emotions.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of that movie Free Solo. Did you see the movie free solo?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

100%.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you guys see this Asad on an airplane once where the guy.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

I used to do a little bit of free class. So yeah, I have that underdeveloped sense of self preservation. And pretty much I'm a pilot. I do the Trimax dive.

[Megyn Kelly]

So this guy's like climbing mountains, like the most dangerous mountainsides in the world without any suspension, without any rope whatsoever. And it's extremely dangerous. And they talk in the, in that film about how you can kind of burn out your adrenal gland.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that's not necessarily a good thing.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Or it's already underdeveloped. So it takes that much more stimulus to actually get any sort of excitement out of life. And that's what it was like. So I, after 16, you know, you, you, you work so hard, you, you sort of become like, I mean, there's something cool about being pseudo rockstar, Right. You're on a stage and people are loving it and you sort of feel like, wow, I'm actually decent at this. This is kind of cool. So. But you get like, I gotta go back to my regular life. I'm so over this. And like two weeks back at a desk and I was like, yeah, no, this isn't gonna work for me anymore. No, no, I was, I was. No, no, like, like borderline depressed. Like, I was like, this, this sucks. Like I, I literally just remade my whole life after that and got stayed more involved in this and just, it was sort of game changing. So what I thought was sort of like going to be my destiny for, you know, the rest of my career. It was like, yeah, no, that's not going to work. Like, I literally would not be able to be satisfied sitting at a desk and doing that forever anymore. And so it changed everything.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, that leads me to my next line of inquiry, which is, is any trump going to be running for office at any point soon?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

You know, this is always the trick question, right? Because if you say no and then you decide to do Something at another stage in life. I appreciate the applause. And, you know, someone sent, you know, a bunch of friends sent me a poll last week. It's, you know, JD and I are the only guys in double digits. I'm like, I haven't really been, you know, out there all that much for it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Ignore the air.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

But still. Well, you know, who knows? You know, honestly, the air is whoever deserves it, really. You know what I mean? There's not an heir, contrary to what we've seen. This isn't a monarchy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Like, I know, I know they like doing the whole no kings thing and dressing up like, you know, Bozo the Clown. And I think that's supposed to be effective. I don't know. It doesn't seem to move the needle much for me. But, you know, it also is sort of ironic that they're talking about not having kings with a president that was elected in a landslide, won the Electoral college, won the popular vote, won all seven swing states in a historic fashion before that actually left office. I mean, you know, if you're. He's like a really shitty king, actually. I mean, if he's a king, he's doing a lousy job because a king wouldn't have done that. A king wouldn't have allowed himself to be prosecuted and persecuted and almost jailed, almost assassinated. A king probably wouldn't allow those protests to happen. And if he was a king, the government would be open and not shut down by Democrats who want to make sure that we're funding healthcare for illegals.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

But, you know, so it's the narrative, as we all know, the narrative doesn't always have to line up with reality.

[Megyn Kelly]

Was that a long way of saying no?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

You have to see, you know, so not.

[Megyn Kelly]

Not never?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

No, not probably. No, not now.

[Megyn Kelly]

But not now. But not now.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

There may be a time, and if it's required of me, and I can do that for my country, it's an honor. The fact that I have this kind of reaction is. All right, thank. Listen, just that kind of reaction. Like, that sort of. That. I mean, that's the greatest honor I could receive. Right. So it means a lot to me. And. And I see that. And it. It's. I don't know that I have the ego, actually, which is ironic. I understand, coming from the top, you know, but there's like a level of hubris. You actually need to be president. I think that I'm like. I don't know. I fight. We want to go, but after that, I'm okay going in the background. But I. What was so great about the last four years under Biden was it's actually what we needed as a country for everyone to understand how fragile our democracy is, how fragile the Republic really is, how fragile even our economy is, and how the world really needs a strong America. And so it wasn't just the first four years of Trump that showed us that. It was how quickly it all disappeared and went away that woke up so many people. But in that there was a sort of component of, you know, trial by fire, you know, not just for the American people who got it and experienced it, because you saw it with your own eyes every day, but for those in the Cabinet now, for those who were able to be fighters and, you know, were subject to the same lawfare and whatever. So now we actually, for the first time in modern history, we have a bench. We have a bench of guys that can do this. And if I'm part of that, that's an honor. But it's not like, you know, even in, you know, after the first term, you're like, well, man, who's next? You know, it wasn't going to be Mike Pence. Mike Pence was perhaps like a necessary thing to sort of consolidate other parts of the Republican base that are like, well, this guy from New York, how do we make this happen? How does, you know, perhaps, I don't want to say necessarily evil, but like, you sort of needed.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, he made sense at the time.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

It made sense at the time, but it was never going to be the future of the party. Right? Like, that was never real. And, you know, now it's great to be like, just to see a JD and to see, honestly, you know, Marco's done a great job.

[Megyn Kelly]

Star. Marco's a Star Trek.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

And. And more importantly, they're guys that aren't just sort of playing a role on tv. They've actually changed their worldview to understand that sort of America first maga, however you want to look at it, is actually the future of the Republican Party. They're not guys that are dying to go back to the old ways and playing a role. They actually believe it. They get it now. And that's incredible for the future of our country.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, now, since you and your dad are very similar in many ways. What. And you're talking about how you were bored sitting at your desk for two weeks. What does Donald Trump, post presidency do with his time?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Oh, God, I don't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

Megan.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah, no, you know, it's an interesting one. It's like this was always during the campaign, it's like, you know, are we working him too hard? It's like, no, no, no. Keep him going. Because there's nothing sometimes more scary to us that we're heading, you know, you know, perhaps clean up some messes. You know, getting the call at like 5 o' clock in the morning. Like, did you see the tweet that went out three hours ago now? What happened? Don't worry, you're on CNN in a couple hours. What are the talking points? It's like, honestly, we don't know. Figure it out. You know, the scariest Donald Trump is a bored Donald Trump. So we.

[Megyn Kelly]

Real.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

I got to figure out, we, we all have to figure out how to keep him busy.

[Megyn Kelly]

But, you know, he could pull the Obama, not leave Washington and be the shadow president for the next.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

That would be, that would be fun. I think one way or the other, he's always going to keep busy. I mean, you know, you even see the passion of what he has now is he's, you know, doing additions to the White House. I mean, he's always going to be a builder at heart. And I think because he's a builder, it's why he understands how to do these things. It's also why he's so able to relate to regular people. You know, he still always sort of defaults back to his roots of being, you know, a builder, someone who creates. And so, you know, I imagine he'll always remain politically active because he too, likes the action and, and the party likes him.

[Megyn Kelly]

They don't want him to go. Yeah, I mean, like, they're going to want him around.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

He's remade that party and he's always going to have an incredible influence there. And so it'll be interesting to watch, though. Yes, but we gotta, we gotta keep him busy one way or the other. I'm gonna actually take up golf, despite all the things that I don't want to do. Just be like, I just gotta go play golf with them. Because if he's alone and bored, it's gonna be problems.

[Megyn Kelly]

Get him away from the truth social. Let's talk about the lawfare that's happening now. What happened to your dad was deeply wrong. It was immoral. It was criminal. It really was criminal what was done to him. And you guys saw that, you know. Now, before Trump took office, he filed a couple of complaints with the doj, seeking to be made, made whole on all the money he had to spend to defend himself. And the media has gone nuts with it. Oh, my God. It's conflict Avengers. How could he? How could he. Do you know, if you listen to AM update, you do know this. Do you know how much those losers, Peter Strook and Lisa Page, those two FBI lovers who were tweeting, you know how much they got from the DOJ? $2 million. And, and they.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

For perjuring themselves.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

And setting up a president.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, it's plotting actively against him. So they filed a complaint because they were mad their tweets got released and Merrick Garland's DOJ paid out. So why shouldn't Trump file a complaint and get paid out for all of his heartache? But I'm just speaking of the lawfare and how widespread it was and how bit by bit your dad's trying to make good the lawfare that is being unleashed against his enemies. We've had lots of debates about it. I'm totally in favor of it because I really think they deserve it. It's accountability to me. But what's your reaction? Because the argument against it by smart people is two wrongs don't make a right. And it's not going to stop them. You know, when they get back in power, they're going to do it again.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

It's actually a nuanced sort of answer because, like, you know, I guess the normal Don Jr response would be like, just go after him. But these guys did break the law. They actually did. There's a difference between what they did to my father, where they're literally going back and literally changing the statute of limitations for a short period of time to be able to try to get him when they're venue shopping. You notice he was only sued in Atlanta, New York, D.C. you know, there's a difference between creating a thing, you know, the steel dossier, making it when it's manufactured to end a result that's different than John Bolton taking home classified documents and breaking the law and doing that. That's not lawfare. That's actually called enforcing the law. So there's two different things. Now, the corollary to all of that is generally speaking, there's no one weaker than a Republican in Washington, D.C. no, no, you've seen it. You can be the most die hard red meat guy and you get to Washington D.C. and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I love the perks. I love getting my ass kissed. I love being invited to the cool person party. You know what? They leave me alone If I'm like 85% Republican, if I fold when it actually matters to my constituents, but can be beneficial to The Democrats, you have an easy existence. The Washington Post isn't doing their hit pieces. I look at those hit pieces.

[Megyn Kelly]

Chief Justice Roberts comes to mind.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah, well, no, of course, Robert, but by the way, you know, how many strong Republican senators do we have? Like three. That you'd actually want to be in one of these political fights with that. I mean, it's pretty plentiful. And so there's a component of me that believes I'd love none of this to ever happen. I'd love it to actually be fair. That's not ever been the case. And until we actually start fighting the same way the Democrats do, it's never going to stop because they're more than happy to take their wins. You know, they talk about democracy. It's all a soundbite. You know, they talk about all these things. They're so great until it happens to them. And it's like, well, this is different, you know, rules for thee, but not for me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Unprecedented. They actually keep using that word as people get indicted on the left.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Unprecedented. I'm like, what were you doing to me, to my father, to half the Republican Party? You know, what did you do to Peter Navarro? What did you do to Steve Bannon? You know, that was unprecedented.

[Megyn Kelly]

Roger Stone.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Roger Stone. Now that it's happening back to them, it's unprecedented. All of a sudden, you know, they can get away with that. And they've gotten away with it because they also control still the mainstream media narrative. They control a vast majority of tech. You know, I think what Elon's done is great to at least people can finally see, like, oh, wait a minute, it's not actually unprecedented, but it's hard to believe there are people that see that and they're like, my God, it's unprecedented. Like, did you like, not turn on a TV for a solid eight years? You've been like, eight years when you know, Trump, what, 96 indictments. They wanted to put my father away for 750 years. I mean, he's a young and vibrant 79, but. But I think even for a high energy guy like Donald Trump, like, 750 years may be a lot. I'm not sure he gets through that.

[Megyn Kelly]

By the way, does he sleep? Because you hear the reporters on board Air Force One, like, you can't fall asleep because he might come back at any second. He's constantly talking to his cabinet officials and like, you don't want to be the reporter who's asleep when he comes back for the fourth time and you miss the big scoop.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Honestly, I've rarely seen him sleep. If he does, it's, it is like three hours a night, like and, but it's been his whole life, like, so I remember, you know, coming out of, you know, the Wharton School of Finance and starting to work in the business and stuff like that. And, you know, young 20 year old guy in New York City. I'd go out and I'd be partying with my buddies. I'd probably get home at 12, 10:30, 10:30, let's just say that for. And Saturday morning my phone would ring, you know, don, why aren't you in the office? I'm like, why aren't you in the office? He's like, I'm in the office. That's why I know you're not in it, Don.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm like, shit, nightmare.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

I'm like, I'm stumbling over their hairs everywhere. I'm hungover as hell and I'm like, we're gonna get to the office and on a Saturday, sometime Sunday.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just built this way.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

He's just always been that way. I mean, perhaps the most. I've sort of been impressed with his stamina that way for most of my life. But I mean, even, you know, this last election, the days prior to the election, I mean, I saw him go two all nighters in a row.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Like it was all day, seven events. And I'd speak at some of them, but when it, when he's there, he's speaking for an hour. And yes, I mean, it's slated for an hour and sometimes it ends up being two and a half the weave, but you know, you got six of them, you know, and we're in Michigan and it's 2:30 in the morning and that's 3:30. By the time you dealt with the time difference or wherever we end up, I think it was Michigan was the last one. And he's still going strong. Six of these speeches, five of these speeches for two hours apiece. It's 2:30 in the morning, he's going strong. He gets on the plane and he starts playing music and he's. And I'm like, I just want to go to bed. Like, I literally, like, for the love of Christ, please just turn off the music. And he's blasting Elton John. It's wild. And then we get there and it's election day. And I get home, it's 6am I try to get like an hour or two. I get home, I take a shower, I'm about to go to bed, and I turn on the TV quickly and he's doing interviews. I'm like. I'm like, no. I felt like I'm not, like, living up to, you know, this. I literally had, like, two hours till my next thing. I'm like, I just can't go to bed because I can't let this guy outdo me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes.

[Ben Shapiro]

I interviewed Fuentes. Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes, like, three weeks ago. It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father, a subject I have, like, literally no sense of humor. My father passed in. In. In March, and, you know, was really kind of the patriarch. Not kind of. He was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family. And, you know, some of what Fontes was saying about my dad was, you know, true. Okay. Which made it worse. But I was just so offended by that. I couldn't deal with it, and. And my son and my wife. So, you know, I was really mad at Fuentes. And then I did an interview, and just out of the way. I was so mad, it, like, popped out. And I attacked Nick Fuentes in this interview. This was last month, I think.

[Megyn Kelly]

Ish.

[Ben Shapiro]

And. And then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about. I don't know anything really about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife, and my. My son. And it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among young men, like, period.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's got 5 million subscribers on Rumble.

[Ben Shapiro]

It's bonkers. And I didn't know any of. I mean, I'm 56, so I'll just, like, state the obvious, you know, like, my oldest child is 31, like, much older than Nick Fuentes, So I kind of missed a lot of this stuff. I pride myself on not missing things. I totally miss that, really. And then it turns out that, you know, he has no advertisers. They've been trying to cancel him since freshman year in college. Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut him down freshman year in college, and it didn't work. In fact, it had the opposite effect. So I was like. And so I talked to a million people I know. Like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to hear what. Like, what is this?

[Maureen Callahan]

Actually?

[Ben Shapiro]

And so I decided to do it. And I thought it would be controversial. I didn't think it would become what it's become. Become. I'm not Going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting. I've literally in. I mean, I've interviewed any. I'm doing this for 34 years, so I've interviewed everybody. Most of them bad people, to be honest.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Ben Shapiro]

I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil war. All cannibals. Every single one of them tasted human flesh. And first of all, I kind of like them. I'm just being honest because I, like people don't agree with cannibalism. Pretty opposed, for the record, but I'm just that way. I just like people in the closer. If you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did the Liberian cannibal smell good?

[Ben Shapiro]

Kind of rank, to be honest. Actually, during the interview, this is. I'll never forget this. I was in Africa for. To cover the civil war. And I'm interviewing this guy, and he was like, you know, commander Butt Naked, or it wasn't actually Commander Butt Naked, who was a famous militia leader during that war. War who fought, needless to say, butt naked. But I'm interviewing this guy and his cell phone goes off and it's the Woody Woodpecker theme song. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you're human. It was like, hilarious. Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial. Like, I interview people who are hated, in some cases, like, demonstrably evil. And I asked them, why did you do that and what, you know, what's your account of yourself like? Tell me who you are. What do you believe? And I wanted to. That was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fuentes is like, what is this? Tell me. You know, I'll give you two hours. I have only watched your clips for, like, a minute long. I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think? Because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence of people describing what they think. I did it with Putin. I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world. Because I'm interested, not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting. And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nicholas Fuentes, and it's this. And I said it, which is. I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Ben Shapiro]

And I'll never give up that. Right. In fact, it's an obligation, I would say, and to be reasonable about it and not, you know, but what's in America's interest? Totally legitimate. It is totally illegitimate and very specifically unchristian to attack people for their DNA. Like, I hate this group.

[Megyn Kelly]

You wanted him to hear that.

[Ben Shapiro]

He has. We all have to hear that. And because that is the basis of Western civilization. Western civilization is derived from the New Testament. It is based on Christian ethics. And the core difference between the west and the rest of the world, not just Israel, but every other country, is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt. We don't believe that you are born guilty. And we also don't believe that you're born virtuous. We believe that God created every person as an individual. God did not create communities. Every woman gives birth to a human being, and every person has the spark of God inside him. I mean, that's what we believe as Christians. And every person has the possibility of redemption. And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form. But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians. He was murdering Christians. He was. He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament, but he was on the way to go murder more Christians, that he met Jesus. And then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament. So, like, he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born as an individual and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives. And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you look like, or what your religion is, that you can change and that you can be saved by Jesus. That is Christianity in three sentences. And so that is reflected even for people who aren't Christians. That is reflected in an ethical framework and a legal code. That is the only truly unusual and great thing about the west, which is we do not punish the innocent. We only punish the guilty. We do not. You commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail, we don't execute your cousins, we don't commit genocide against your whole tribe. We punish you because you did it. We treat each person as an individual. That is Western civilization. That's a Christian understanding. It does not derive from any other religion. Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim, and that's the basis of our justice system, which again, even non Christians appreciate. That's why they move here, because it's self evidently more humane. That's where the idea of human rights come from. They're not collective rights. It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe doesn't. It's you as an individual have rights. And that idea is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded. It's disregarded in dei, it's disregarded in affirmative action. Identity politics is a refutation of that idea. We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for the same reason. That is anti Western. It's evil, and it leads in the end inexorably to genocide. That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis. It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994. It's the rude idea, just saying behind what's happening in Gaza right now, where it's like, we're gonna kill the kids too. We don't care. And we're gonna, by the way, move everyone out because they're a people that is fundamentally opposed to us. Yeah, well, I'm not for that. Sorry. Because that's not the Western understanding of justice. We punish the guilty alone. We do not punish the innocent. Period. And that's not racism. And in fact, it's the answer to racism. It's the answer to antisemitism. It's why anti Semitism is wrong. It's why racism is wrong. No, you're not better than me. No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born. You're the same as me because we were both created by God. Period. So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe, is prima facie immoral. And yet it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics. And I reject it. I reject it when it manifests as anti Semitism. I reject it when it manifests as anti white racism, which has been pretty common. I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real. But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are. I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral, it's anti Christian, and that is the destruction of the West. And so when I see these people like, we're defending Western when Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization, or Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're Palestinians so we can defend Western civilization. I'm like, no, no, no. You are the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization. Period.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Ben Shapiro]

That's what I wanted to say. And I said it. And they called me a Nazi. And I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

[Megyn Kelly]

But wait, what. What I hear you saying sort of is that you wanted to reach him. You wanted him.

[Ben Shapiro]

Course I want to. I want to reach him and everyone watching.

[Megyn Kelly]

But were you. Were you trying to help him in a way.

[Ben Shapiro]

I want to tell the truth as I understand it, with the ever present knowledge that I'm kind of a buffoon and I'm often wrong. I support the Iraq war. I remind that myself of that every single day. I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments. I've been carried away by enthusiasm, particularly by anger, many times in my life. So with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay, you always have to remember that because I'm not God. I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can, in every venue, in every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can. And that's why Nazi week doesn't bother me to anymore. Because I'm not a Nazi. I'm a Christian.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of course. So what about. I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious. The main criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming. They say that. I don't accept platforming as a valid objection.

[Ben Shapiro]

What is that a verb, by the way? You take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything. As a former editor, I say no.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, agree, honestly. But like, as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone. You know, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people and he was platformed by Diane Sawyer.

[Ben Shapiro]

We have a member, a sitting member of Congress. I spoke to the speaker of the House about this. Today we have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called, called Randy Fine, who is literally texted or put on Twitter. We should kill them all. Every single one someone texted a picture of, literally of a dead baby. And he laughs at it. And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing genocide. And that's cool. It's not cool. And let's just be honest. That is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said, period.

[Megyn Kelly]

So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan, et cetera. These journalists went after them, like, exposed the terrible things. And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things, big time.

[Ben Shapiro]

Including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust, likening it to baking cookies in the oven, and there's no way you could have gotten to 6 million. Seems to be his theory. He seemed, he thinks, to seem to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms, which. I mean, so. So what do you say to those people? Say, why don't you. Why didn't you raise any of that?

[Ben Shapiro]

You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it? You're not my editor. Buzz off. I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes, I'll give you a cell. Call him and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you. I got the same thing with Putin. Why aren't you yelling at him? Okay. Why? So I can show that I'm a good person. I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks, and that's it. I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you. You may think I'm a terrible person, okay? I'm just doing my thing, which is, is I want to understand what people think, and I'm committed to that. And if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view. But that doesn't mean that I share the views. I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes. I mean, please. And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private, because I'm not into that at all. But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing. And I did actually. I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this and da, da, da, da. And the Internet tells me, or, you know, the ADL says, you said this. It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think? Like, why don't you speak for yourself? Because we're adults. That is my approach with everybody, whether I like him or don't like him. But the Usha Vance thing Did upset me, because I know Usha Vance, and I love Usha Vance, and I was really offended by that, just personally, because I know her, right. And in a normal way. And I did think about that. Like, that pissed me off. And I. I'm just being as honest as I can be. I didn't want to repeat it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, no, you're always actually, you know, as a journalist, you're always there, like, do I repeat it?

[Ben Shapiro]

Well, if you know the person and.

[Megyn Kelly]

Spread it or kind of.

[Ben Shapiro]

And it's like, so wounding. And I mean, he attacked my wife, as I said. So I don't. I don't know. I. I'm sensitive on that.

[Megyn Kelly]

So let me ask you, maybe I.

[Ben Shapiro]

Made the wrong call, by the way.

[Charlie Kirk]

Probably.

[Megyn Kelly]

So now, having done it, what do you think of him?

[Ben Shapiro]

About Fuentes?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Ben Shapiro]

I. I think it's. It's so funny. I did not make Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes is. Well, he's just enormously gifted as a. As a broadcaster. I mean, it's like. It's unbelievable. His talent is. I mean, I have done that job. Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously, but, I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked about.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

He's really good at it.

[Ben Shapiro]

He has not been canceled. He can't be canceled. So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of, like, what place does he occupy in what does he say about our society? And I'm not making excuses for any. Anybody else's views. I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men, then we need to, like, start thinking about why that is, and we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually. And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever. No one ever wants to repent. They all want to cast stones. They don't see the plank in their own eye. This is including me. It's just humans are like this, and they want to be, like, Nazi. And it's like, oh, yeah, okay, great, great. But, like, how did this happen?

[Megyn Kelly]

Why are they listening to him?

[Ben Shapiro]

Kind of.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can I ask you. So.

[Charlie Kirk]

So.

[Ben Shapiro]

And part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed its voters by obsessing over Israel. That's just a fact. Like, what is this? It's a country of 9 million people. I'm not against Israel. I visited on vacation. I've always liked. Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world. I'm not against Israel, but Like, why is that the center of our conversation? It's 9 million people, no resources. The only strategic value Israel has is the. The extent to which we have to defend Israel. But take that out and there's no value at all. I'm not against it. I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people. We're the most important country in the world, and our politics is. And every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel. And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel. I certainly don't hate Jews. But what the hell is this?

[Megyn Kelly]

But wait.

[Ben Shapiro]

And then it's like, shut up. You can't talk about it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why clarify what you mean? Because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men, I was with you.

[Erica Kirk]

You.

[Megyn Kelly]

Both parties have a ban on young men, especially Democrats, though, for so many other reasons. But why. Why Israel? You're saying the focus, all the energy.

[Ben Shapiro]

Yeah, I mean, look, Trump is elected. I campaign for him with. And I love Trump. I just want to say that. And talked to him the other day, and I. And I love Trump, and I've known him for 25 years. And I. I mean, I could write many books on Trump and they would be positive, basically. But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit bb? Then he comes again. Then he comes again. And it's like the energy of the administration and of the entire US Government is all of a sudden about Iran, a war with Iran, really. How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime?

[Charlie Kirk]

Zero.

[Ben Shapiro]

Because that's the number. How many people you know who've died of a drug od? Some. Maybe you have a nephew who did. So, like, what is this? I know you want to have regime change in Iran. I'm not mad at Israel at all. It doesn't. I'm not actually mad at Israel. I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country. And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government, because it's a democratic republic. Like, what the hell is going on? And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi. You're an anti Semitic. Well, actually, I'm not. And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I'm really am not. And no matter how many times they say that, it, like, doesn't bother me because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable. Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm just.

[Ben Shapiro]

Maybe you do. Okay, you do, but you do. You disagree with what I'm saying. But, like, what is the answer? Why would the US Government spend all this time. No, I'm sincere. Question. Why is the overwhelming majority of the US Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby? Like what? Like what is the answer? Why is that? Okay. And they want, they don't. They want to prevent you from asking that question. Because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up. And if there's, if that's the only answer, I just buy my temperament and my age. I'm just not going to shut up because that's not hate, it's sincere. What do you mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you make of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East? They're in a very tough neighborhood. They have our shared Western values. They have our back. We have their back. And that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some of these surrounding countries.

[Ben Shapiro]

I would say. What are you talking about?

[Megyn Kelly]

Pushing things like Sharia law, which I should.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay, what's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists. They've said that too. This is not a left wing talking point.

[Megyn Kelly]

Have you read Guys are Firing tonight?

[Ben Shapiro]

It's just a fact. Is read Ben GVIR Smotrich on this. These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying starve them out, kill them, kill their children. This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud. That is not Western. That's Eastern. That is totally incompatible with Western civilization. We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances. Or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting. And that, by the way, the US Government has done the same. And I've complained about it a lot and no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government. So why is it for boating to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away? What the hell are you talking about? That is, I just believe in the principle. And second, tell me why they're our most important ally. Right down the road you've got countries that have like the bulk of the world's energy supply. That's not an important ally. What if you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies. I like Israel for the eighth time. How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it? I have. I took my kids. I'm not against it. I don't want it to get hurt. But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress, is to serve the people who elected you in your country. So you need to think seriously, as you do with your own children, what's good for them.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Charlie Kirk]

I would hate for people to believe that the Nick Fuentes, sort of. My problems with Nick Fuentes are about me because they really are not. They are about the fact that Nick Fuentes is a truly horrifying person who believes truly horrifying things. And again, there is a reason why Charlie Crook despised him. There is a reason why every mainstream political commentator has been highly critical of him. It's the reason why these are not arguments. He's not a person who's making arguments. He is a Hitler loving troll. And I say that advisedly. He literally says on his show that he loves Adolf Hitler. Okay, so the reason this has come up in recent weeks is because Tucker, your guest last night, decided to have him on last week and to completely gloss him, in my opinion. And you can make up your own opinion as to what you think Tucker was doing during that interview. But I know what it looks like when Tucker Carlson decides to be an aggressive interviewer, when he decides to ask difficult questions of people. Tucker is eminently capable of doing that. He did it to Ted Cruz quite thoroughly. But he decided for any number of reasons, and I try not to attribute motivations to people, that he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves, that he was going to not ask him about any of the things that I've just mentioned, literally any of them, and to essentially normalize Fuentes act as a sort of gateway drug or as a. What I've called Tucker as an ideological launderer of bad ideas over the last couple of years. And this is not coming from a place of animus for Tucker on a personal level. I've known Tucker for a very long time. Tucker, whenever we're in personal situations, we get along great. I think I saw that Tucker talked about how we were at Charlie's memorial in the Vice president's box together. And he's correct. I mean, we saw each other, we said hello, we talked. It was very friendly and all of that. And it's also true that a couple of days after Charlie's murder, he reached out and he called me and he said, listen, I know that we're at odds. And you know, we've been at odds for a number of reasons, mainly political. I mean, again, on a personal level, I'd go fishing with Tucker anytime. The real question is, for me, I got into this business because I care about the ideas and I care about the ideals. And so when you are determining what is conservatism, what should the future of America look like, and where do you draw the lines? Those are the questions that I need to answer in my Job for me, my business is really not about friendship. I have lots of friends, people who I love with whom I disagree on politics and don't believe they should be leaders in the conservative movement, for example. And that, to me, is the real question. In any case, Tucker reached out. He said, you know, we've had a bunch of disagreements, and, you know what, if we could put those aside and align toward the DSA in particular, is what he mentioned. And I said, you know, Tucker, you're totally right. Let's do that. That would be great.

[Megyn Kelly]

In fact, the tsa.

[Charlie Kirk]

The dsa.

[Megyn Kelly]

Dsa.

[Charlie Kirk]

The Democratic Socialists.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why the tsa? How did that bring you together?

[Charlie Kirk]

The Democratic Socialists in America. And the reason I know. Yes. And the reason I'm saying only divides people is because. Yes. The reason I'm taking out my phone is because it's. I don't just, you know, I like to evidence what I'm saying with, you know, actual evidence. So I texted him, and the text exchange was very nice. I mean, here's what the actual text exchange went like after the call. So I texted him and I said, thanks so much for calling. It means the world. It truly does. Should we do a show together talking about the DSA threat, Democratic Socialists of America threatening and orienting in the same direction? Happy to do whatever it takes to bring everyone back together for the fight that matters. And Tucker then wrote back, thanks, man. I appreciate it. I'm going to spend the next week or two thinking about how to be most effective. The country is clearly on the brink. I reached out repeatedly after that. Nothing happened. And again, I thought it was a good idea at the time. I think I felt differently after I saw what he did with Nick Fuentes and after he proceeded, in my opinion, to spend the subsequent weeks doing literally nothing to fight the left. Again, I say this with sadness because Tucker used to be, I think, a deeply important part of the conservative push to win. The number of times that Tucker Carlson has mentioned zoran Mandani since October 5th on his show is once. And it was in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson talking about the appeal of Zoran Mandani, just by way of contrast. Not because I'm a perfect representative here, but because you've talked about Zoram Dani a lot. A lot of us have. Since October 5, I did 17 separate shows on Zoram Hamdani, including four in the last week before the election. Okay. Because when you're orienting against the left, you really should orient against the left.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. So a lot in there. I think, just to be clear. So the breakdown from the, like, detente after Charlie was him interviewing Fuentes. Like, was that the next thing that happened that led to the blow up?

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean. Yes. I mean, I had not spoken a word.

[Megyn Kelly]

So it wasn't that he attacked you like you had.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I don't care about people.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was that interview.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I don't think Tucker cares about people attacking him. I mean, again, we're professionals. We're in a business where people comment on what we say publicly. You know, again, this is why, you know, I think you and I differ on our angle with regard to, for example, Candace Owens. I think that what Candace Owens is doing right now is evil. It is evil what she is doing right now. Okay. And I say that again, but what, what?

[Megyn Kelly]

Because, like, I didn't opine on whether it's evil or not, but my position is it's really none of my business. And why is it.

[Charlie Kirk]

But I have a question. Why is it none of your business? I mean, you comment on these things for a little.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm not mother of the Internet.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but. But if this were on the left and somebody were accusing Charlie Kirk of his wife having murdered him, I assume that you would be talking about it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that what Candace is accusing Erica of? Yes, of murdering her own husband.

[Charlie Kirk]

She's. She's accusing tpusa insiders and other members of the right wing, including Seth Dillon, of being involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk. Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Like I said, I don't take in that content, which is an honest statement. I don't have time to watch.

[Charlie Kirk]

I believe you. I believe you. But the point that I'm making is that what I.

[Megyn Kelly]

What I should.

[Charlie Kirk]

In our business, I think it's important.

[Megyn Kelly]

Important.

[Charlie Kirk]

Listen, friendship should not trump.

[Megyn Kelly]

We don't even know each other.

[Charlie Kirk]

I understand, but even with Tucker, friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I don't totally disagree, but I think the way of handling that, at least for me, is much different. So I thought, saw things go south between you and Tucker, at least from my vantage point. When you disagreed on Israel, that was obvious. And he was. Well, let me just make my point. So he was saying things that were critical of Israel and our policy towards Israel. And then you did one show where you did what I thought you should have done if you disagreed with him, which clearly you did, which is say what you believe and what you think is factual. And like, educate your audience on what you think are the real facts and give them the evidence for it. But you named him and it felt like an attack. And that to me was the beginning of the end where he was like, now it's on. Because he felt personally attacked by you as opposed to just challenging his idea. I think you named him and you. You kind of diminished him. And, you know, he's an 800 pound gorilla, and if you mess with a gorilla, he's gonna fight. And to me, that's where it started to go south. And because I remember that day being like, oh, well, I don't want to see this.

[Charlie Kirk]

But here's the thing. I would urge everybody to go back and listen to the show that you're referring to, where I criticize Tucker's ideas, not Tucker as a person. Tucker then responded by claiming that I do not love America. That is a direct quote. That I do not love America because I was spending too much time covering the October 7th attacks and then proceeded in January to then say that I wanted his children to die in a foreign war. Okay, so those are a different rhetorical. No, it's not. I'm sorry, it's not. An attack on motivation is a very different thing from an attack on an idea.

[Megyn Kelly]

His point was that you were sounding like a neocon, and he's upset with anybody who wants us to get too involved in Israel's conflict because he feels it endangers American children.

[Charlie Kirk]

It is that. Okay, the idea that, number one, the idea that I want the United States to be directly involved in Israel's conflict is not true.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, I know that, Ben.

[Charlie Kirk]

I've been urging Israel to get off of American aid for literally as long as I have been active in politics.

[Megyn Kelly]

But I'm making sure what his point was.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, but that. But my point is that that's not his point. And again, none of this.

[Megyn Kelly]

So we disagree.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, none the of. We disagree on the interpretation of what Tucker has been doing for the past two years. And it's very difficult for me to believe that Tucker is merely anti Israel when, for example, today in his newsletter. I mean, I can directly quote it if you'd like. In his newsletter today, he claimed that Zoran Mamdani is not anti Semitic. This was his newsletter today, this morning. I mean, I'm happy to read the text. It's pretty. It's a little extraordinary because, again, it is kind of shocking stuff. So here is what Tucker Carlson wrote in his newsletter today, or what his newsletter says under his name. He said Is the incoming mayor a fan of Israel? Does he want America to fight its wars? Not particularly. But a Jew hater. That's a different conversation. We've never seen anything to suggest he falls into that ugly camp. If we're talking about fighting the left. Defending Zoram Hamdani, who literally said that Hamas he has no opinion whether Hamas should disarm. Who posed alongside the 1993 World Trade center unindicted co conspiracy conspirator who would not disown globalize the intifada. Who suggested that whenever there is in a New York police department boot on somebody's neck it's an IDF lacing the strings to suggest that that's not anti Semitic in any way. No way.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, but.

[Charlie Kirk]

Or when he. When he.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm going to give you a defense of Tucker here and I don't need to defend Tucker. I'm not saying I think in general because I know him and I listen to him and I understand generally where he's coming from. He would say his problems are with Israel and he would say that that shot that Mamdani laid against the IDF is a shot against the IDF and Israel and how he thinks they're pro war, not against Jews. And I think. And I think all I can say.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is finds himself in complete alignment with Zoram Dani. It is very difficult for me to believe that he does not agree with.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is in a place right now of the same place that Charlie was getting to toward the end of his life. The same place that some people had tried to drive me, which is you're under withering non stop accusations of being something you know you're not. But from. From some people who you love and who you've been protecting, at least in my case, in Charlie's case for two years. Who you've been completely defensive of. And Charlie and I both felt. And I because we talked about this on my show. Like what's happening here? Why are we they dropping charges of anti Semitism against us when we love Jews and we're both open Semites were Zionists.

[Charlie Kirk]

So. Megan, you may notice I'm just talking about me here. Are there people who are overzealous? Sure. I'm sorry, have I ever attacked you?

[Megyn Kelly]

No, no, never.

[Charlie Kirk]

Did I ever attack Charlie publicly about any of this?

[Megyn Kelly]

No, no, no, no. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

He and I had disagreements behind the scenes. Did I ever.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did I ever like you get defensively.

[Charlie Kirk]

By the way, I waited to attack Tucker until he glossed Nick Fuentes, who is that has nothing to do with Israel. Nick Fuentes hates Jews.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm not saying, Tucker, you didn't have a right to go after him. I mean, I think, I mean, you, you did what you thought was right and you felt. And he mentioned you a few times in his interview with Nick. He did.

[Charlie Kirk]

But again, I don't think it's about that. Because if he had not mentioned me in that interview with Nick Fuentes, I still would have said something about it. Because again, glossing people who are white supremacists is bad electorally. On a pragmatic level, a right wing that embraces its own fringes will end up in the same position as a left wing that has embraced.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's why I get into it. Embrace.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

So now having spoken to Tucker, I actually see that interviewer very differently. And I did listen to the interview and I knew what Nick Fuentes was and I think he did show himself to be who he is. It wasn't his most vile stuff. But you, you got the feel for what this guy was. But I really think Tucker was talking to him, Ben. To put like a bumper on this guy. Because what Tucker was urging him the whole time was to understand that collective punishment for anyone group of people is wrong. It's deeply immoral and it's anti Christian, which this guy is supposed to be, and reminding him of how deeply immoral that is. That you should not be looking at a group of people, whomever it is. Like the left does it to everyone, whites mostly, but like this collective shame, white men in particular. And there's a group of people like Nick Fuentes that does it to groups of Jews. And he was making the case throughout the whole interview in the way that Tucker does. He's not like you or me. He's not like pointed and cross examining.

[Charlie Kirk]

Not true. And was making fundamentally untrue Senator Ted Cruz. Whether that is.

[Megyn Kelly]

He gave it to Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz is a politician.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's. Oh yeah, hold up. So only politicians get cross examined.

[Megyn Kelly]

You don't. Depends on the person.

[Charlie Kirk]

Tucker. Tucker would never cross examine a person who is not a politician. That's his rule.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tucker has excoriated public figures who. Who purport to speak for us and represent us for many years. Nick Fuentes is a podcaster. Civilian.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, I just have a question. We all in our industry are constantly excoriating people who are in our industry. It happens all the time, every single day. Okay, okay. Again we can agree to disagree on your interpretation of what Tucker was doing there. I think everybody should watch and determine for the Themselves what they think Tucker was doing in that interview. And I urge you to watch it back to back with the Ted Cruz interview to determine whether you think that that was an aggressive Tucker Carlson interview. And you can judge.

[Megyn Kelly]

I didn't say it was aggressive and I don't think he would say it was aggressive. And I think his point was this guy, first of all, he's become a behemoth, Sadly. He's got 5 million viewers on Rumble. He's got a million followers on X. I agree. This is all before Tucker Carlson and he was platformed, hate that verb. But he was platformed by Patrick Bet David. And he went on Dave Smith show and he went on another big show. He's been getting more and more purchase in the political ecosphere, including right wing.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I think that's Patrick David has a huge show.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know, but Patrick did you know that Patrick David had him on his life blow up?

[Charlie Kirk]

Patrick McDavid did a significantly more aggressive interview with Nick Fuentes than Tucker did.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, but my point is simply he's growing. He's growing in stature. And so what I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas, but try to put bumpers up on the guy. I know Tucker well and I think that was his approach. And the way, the way, if you want to put a bumper up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say, you're fucking vile, you're an anti Semite? No, it isn't.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

That doesn't put up.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, it isn't. That makes the audience feel good because you have hand to hand combat. But it doesn't help change that guy's view or his extreme, his extremeness at all.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay? I'll tell you what doesn't change Nick Fuentes. His view. Tucker Carlson with his arm around Nick Fuentes grinning for the camera while Nick Fuentes tweets out America first. And then triumphantly goes on the air the next day to explain that he has essentially used Tucker Carlson as a vehicle for manipulating other people. Okay? That's what Nick Fuentes is saying. Not me. Nick Fuentes, okay? And Nick Fuentes. And by the way, I will again say that Tucker Carlson, when you say to somebody in an interview, do you condemn anti Semitism? And then the person says, sure, which is what Nick Fuentes said. He said, I'm not an anti Semit, which is blatantly untrue. A response. Agree. A responsible journalist would then follow up demonstrating that that is false. Tucker did not do that. He allowed him to get away with that and then he Allowed him to talk about, quote, unquote, organized Jewry, followed by Nick Fuentes being treated to a disquisition by Tucker Carlson about why Christian Zionists of all human beings on earth are the people that he, he hates the most.

[Megyn Kelly]

He took that back.

[Charlie Kirk]

You can't take that back. How do you take that back?

[Megyn Kelly]

He did. How he went.

[Charlie Kirk]

He said then he should explain why it was wrong. He should explain how Christian Zionists are actually wonderful people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tucker is very quick to self flagellate and he went on with Dave Smith the next day, the next week, whatever, Monday, Tuesday, this week, and said that was stupid. I didn't mean that. He said, I'm, I'm angry at people like Lindsey Graham. I'm angry at people like Ted Cruz, but because he thinks they run headfirst in these conflicts and they don't think about what's going to happen to America.

[Charlie Kirk]

If we're talking about firing inside the tent. Whatever. Lindsey Graham, okay? And I'm not a huge Lindsey Graham fan. He votes with the President of the United States 100% of the time. And Tucker spent yesterday's show excoriating him as a psychosexual death worshiper. Does that sound like firing outside the tent? Again, these are the questions. Again, the questions that I'm asking here. I'm not asking you to do anything, Megan.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, I know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know.

[Erica Kirk]

I'm not.

[Megyn Kelly]

Our beef is not with each other.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not. Okay. When I draw a line with regard to what I believe Tucker Carlson is doing to the conservative movement and what he is fomenting, that is because that is my. And everyone can make their own decision as to whether they think that I am right or whether I am wrong. And where they choose to draw the line with regard to the conservative movement, the question for me is always whether somebody's statements are forwarding moral values that I think are worthwhile. I did not get into this business for the money or for the clicks. You didn't either.

[Megyn Kelly]

Neither did he.

[Charlie Kirk]

Was that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Neither did he.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, he may not have. That's fine. I certainly did not. I'm only going to speak for myself. And what that means for me is that if I see somebody breach basic moral values by having on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi, then I'm going to speak out about that. And I'm going to point out that there is a long pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years. Ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime is actually wonderful to saying last week that the Venezuelan regime of Nicolas Maduro is actually not that bad because they're being attacked by, in his words, globo homo.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tucker's made the point. I'm not going to hear to be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro is culturally conservative.

[Charlie Kirk]

Who gives a shit? The guy's a communist dictator. Everyone in his country is eating dog. He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans. Why don't we give a shit whether he's. Whether he's anti LGBTQ rights. This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro. You know, far down the list, you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolas Maduro.

[Megyn Kelly]

I did ask him yesterday about the criticism that he didn't give Nick Fuentes a hard time.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

He didn't bring up the stuff that we're talking about. No, he didn't. And here's what he said. It seemed to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms, which. I mean, so. So what do you say to those people? Say, why don't you. Why didn't you raise any of that?

[Ben Shapiro]

You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor. Buzz off. I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes, I'll give you a cell. Call him and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree with him. No, I agree. I agree with him. I agree with him. He did the interview that he wanted to do for a reason.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, who has it worse, the Katie Porter staff or the Megan Markle staff?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who. Who would you rather work for? Katie. Right. Or Megan? Because at least you could, like, spy on them and see their weird little life.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do we have to? Do we have to?

[Megyn Kelly]

We definitely have to.

[Maureen Callahan]

There's only one Megan I can actually still be civil to, and it's the one sitting to my left. The other one, you know, she's.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's getting back into acting peers. I'm sure you saw that. She's shooting a movie now.

[Maureen Callahan]

She's playing herself in a movie.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, she's. Which is, I guess, acting.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. Look, I'm actually genuinely curious. Are there any fans of Meghan Markle in tonight? There is one lone hand has raised subversive. Actually, that's one. That is one more than I expected, I have to be honest.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you think she's gonna make it in the afternoon?

[Maureen Callahan]

I used to do a show called Good Morning Brittany in Brit. And I love that show.

[Megyn Kelly]

That was a great show.

[Maureen Callahan]

And in five years, we trebled the ratings. It was on fire. Everyone loved it. And then came the Oprah Winfrey Wine a thon, as I call it.

[Megyn Kelly]

You and I were on together the morning after that. Remember that? I had no show. I was sitting in my living room. We took that thing down well, because.

[Maureen Callahan]

There were certain things she said in that. And halfway Harry, her husband. And one of the things they said was that the Archbishop of Canterbury had secretly married them in their back garden three days before the wedding on tv. So we did a quick check because I thought, that can't be right. And we did a quick check. It turns out that had the Archbishop of Canterbury secretly married them in their garden, he would have broken the law and been sent to prison. So I thought, yeah, old Princess Pinocchio is off on a good one. And then the rest of it was all the racism claims turned out to be bullshit. The mental health claims were bull. All of it was bullshit, designed to damage and attack the royal family, the monarchy and all of it. And it made me puke.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's not forget the Oprah performance.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, yeah, what they did. What these people. What?

[Megyn Kelly]

How dark your baby was.

[Maureen Callahan]

It was. It was ridiculous. And you know who they were talking about, by the way? Because they accidentally put the names of the alleged racists in a. I think it was a Danish copy of the book by Omid Scobie, this little rat bag who writes books supporting him. And they. The two members of the royal family who apparently expressed concern about the skin color of their unborn child were King Charles, Prince Charles at the time, and Catherine, William's wife. Now, how likely do you think it is that either of those two people expressed negative concern about the skin color of an unborn child? Absolutely. Big fat zero. And yet that was what they told the world in that interview. That's why I thought it was so disgusting. And all right, in the end, I was told that 50, 57,000 people complained to the television regulator Ofcom in the UK, a world record, I'm proud to say, complained about me for not believing Princess Pinocchio. So I was then told by my bosses, look, by the way, rule one here, never apologize, never clarify, never do anything.

[Megyn Kelly]

I can verify that it doesn't work.

[Maureen Callahan]

We know this. So we did a clarification the next day, and it made no difference. The complaints kept coming in. And eventually my bosses said, can you just apologize to Meghan Markle or you're gonna have to, you know, maybe lose your job? I went, I'll take the job option, thanks. I'll leave. And I walked off into the sunset because two things about the. About the woke mob, and she's the high priestess of wokery, and her husband's a high priest half wit of woke.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

And the.

[Maureen Callahan]

And the truth about it is never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologize, never give them an inch. And when you have something that's a point of principle, stand up for yourself and walk the out.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. Yes. Amen. Preach. I know you've lived it. I've watched it. She's. She's a bully. And I. Her acting career, whatever she's trying to do is going to fail, just like everything else she touched fails.

[Maureen Callahan]

I thought. Didn't you think the dodgy video clip from the. From their living room with her waltzing around.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like a hyena.

[Maureen Callahan]

Literally, like. Like a hyena with a spear in his back, wasn't it? And Harry's face, the half wit sat there like he was doped out of his brains, which he probably was. And the whole thing was so creep, wasn't it?

[Megyn Kelly]

It was awful.

[Maureen Callahan]

Terrible.

[Megyn Kelly]

I really want there to be a season three, though, of With Love Megan. Don't you want to see another. Do you want to see another Maureen Callahan parody? We got to do it. We did a little parody of it. Ours was Fuck off, Meghan. And I think. I think I can channel her better than she can channel her. I think I'm a much more like, version of her, as I said in the. In the parody, as she's encouraging people to drink more. People tend to like me better when they're intoxicated. And I think that's really been her experience. So I don't think the acting career is going to do it. But the name of the movie is Close Personal Friends. And I thought how ironic Pierre is, because she has none of those. None.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, like, you see that, like the parade of people who go through her little TV show, and it's all like, oh, this is the person who might. My closest and dearest friends. And they're sitting there and she's like, oh, do you have children? That is your best friend.

[Maureen Callahan]

What was your name again?

[Megyn Kelly]

It's amazing. All right, but you mentioned that. You mentioned British television, how poorly you were treated and it was disgusting and like the UK is even woker than we are and they're very annoying and they're way more Muslim than we are, radical Muslim and way more pro immigrant. It's bad, it's bad. You guys are canary in the coal mine in a lot of ways for us. But we saw something happen on the BBC this week that made national headlines, international headlines, and it was absurd. So this woman, this presenter, as you say, was doing a report about various groups who might be affected by some medical policy and the list included should have included pregnant women, but instead this happened. We have the sound bite. Let's watch it. London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has released research which says that nearly 600 heat related deaths are expected in the UK. Malcolm Mistry, who was involved in the research says that the aged pregnant people, women and those with pre existing health conditions need to take precautions. Would you believe for that they're trying to give her the Piers Morgan treatment?

[Maureen Callahan]

They just upheld 20 complaints against her. Imagine who those 20 people people are, right? Yeah, Just imagine stuck in their dungeon at home, right. In their joyless Woke dungeon and decided to complain about a woman presenter being forced to read the words pregnant people. Well, how many times have you seen a pregnant man right in your life? How many times do you think you'll see a pregnant man in the rest of your life? Here's a spoiler alert. You won't. There aren't any pregnant men. It is.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's so mad.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know the irony, Megan, the irony. I tell that story in my book Woke is Dead about that incident and I say, wasn't it great that the BBC didn't bow to the mob and actually didn't take any action against her? As my book is published in America now, they come back and they punish her. I mean, you literally couldn't make it up.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. No, I mean, is she going to lose her job over this?

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't think so, but it's just, I wish every female presenter at the BBC stood up and walked out until they withdrew the ruling against her. Yeah, because no woman should have to be made to read out the words pregnant people is actually about the. It's about the complete disintegration of gendered language that benefits women. You know, we talked about truth.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's about the disintegration of mothers became birthing people.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, what does that mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Nothing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Nor is chest feeding a thing. That's also a lie.

[Maureen Callahan]

Chest feeding. Chest feeding. What the fuck is that?

[Megyn Kelly]

It's also known as child abuse. This poor woman, her sin in that video was not just that she corrected the term pregnant people, but then they said she made a face. She made a face that. That expressed personal opinion. Meanwhile, the people are all over the BBC expressing opinions, especially on race, like when they watch sporting events and so on. There's never any discipline, it's only on something.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's a really bad misstep by the BBC. I actually like the BBC. A lot of great stuff, honestly, but they've grown very woke and this is an example of why, although I say woke is dead, it's an aspiration. It still pokes his head up and you've got to rebel it. The reason, I think, is dead. The story Recently, Graham Linehan, the comedian.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, Irish comedian, came on our show.

[Maureen Callahan]

Pretty fearless guy. He winds people up with the way he says stuff. Fair enough. He can be very abrasive, but he's fought a pretty lonely battle on behalf of women's rights against a trans activist. And it's cost him everything, cost him his marriage, his home, his job, his livelihood. He was a creative father. Tape one of the great comedies. And, yeah, we should give him a round of applause, actually.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, go, Graham.

[Maureen Callahan]

And not all heroes wear capes, right? They can come in all. In all guises. And he's an unlikely hero, but he became one for me because the other day, he comes into Heathrow Airport. It's the first time he's been back to the UK since he put two jokes on X on his ex account in April. And one joke was, to summarize, it was a bit of a lame gag, but, you know, is it really that terrible? He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's changing room and he said, what, the best thing to do is kick them in the balls. Now, look, some will find that funny, some will Will think it's a bit over the top.

[Piers Morgan]

All right?

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, if you go to any comedy club in the world, you hear jokes like that every 10 seconds. That was the joke. It sat there on his ex account. People either laughed or didn't laugh, as we've done tonight. But when he came into Heathrow three, four weeks ago, five armed police officers were waiting to arrest him and take him to the cells for his joke. Five armed police. And in that moment, I realized my country, which was, you know, Winston Churchill, fought World War II with the help of the Americans before you all remind me. And thank you, thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're pretty proud of that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you, genuinely. Thank you. It was a great team effort. We repelled them together. It was great. But that war was fought to save us from the Nazis, who would have killed free speech in a second. What are we doing in the United Kingdom? And several hundred people have been arrested for tweets and social media posts in the last couple of years. It is completely ridiculous. You cannot have a free democratic society if you don't aggressively defend freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It is the cornerstone of a democracy.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, obviously we love our First Amendment, and I know you and many other Brits are jealous of it. I mean, the First Amendment is being eroded day by day, even. Even here. But at least we have it. It's a very important principle of how we live the way we do. I think the woke mind virus is uniquely tied to a deep unhappiness. You know, you never meet a super happy woke person.

[Maureen Callahan]

They're joyless, right?

[Megyn Kelly]

Utterly joyless.

[Maureen Callahan]

And that brings a laugh at any jokes. Have you noticed?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Nothing is ever funny. No book is ever a good read. They're all toxic. Every movie is toxic. Everything. The clothing you wear at Halloween is toxic.

[Megyn Kelly]

And they are toxic.

[Maureen Callahan]

They are. And they themselves are the toxic ones.

[Megyn Kelly]

They become toxic. So they're always deeply unhappy. Which brings me, of course, to Michelle Obama again. To quote Stephen L. Miller, red Steez on X. I regret to inform you we've disappointed the Obamas again. She's been out there promoting her new fashion book. I know all you ladies look up to Michelle Obama as a fashion icon, do you not? Anna Wintour told us she is. Hello. She was on the COVID of Vogue four times. Melania Trump, 0. Not as first Lady. Anyway, when she was an actual supermodel and married Trump, they gave her one in any event. So Michelle Obama's been doing a book tour to promote her fashion book and the latest, she's been making all sorts of news for the wrong reasons. And the latest bit that she offered was how tough it was to be first lady because of the hair, makeup and wardrobe team she had to deal with. Here's just a little sampling of what she's been saying.

[Michelle Obama]

The job of first lady is an interesting job. Non job, you know, it doesn't come with a real salary or more job description. No one technically elected the first spouse. I'll say all. We've only had first ladies. You're supposed to be aspirational, but representational, reachable, approachable. You know, you're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy. Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie Buttons up. You know, his, his decision or man's decision is do I go with a striped shirt or a plain white shirt?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Do I go with a red tie or blue tie? If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me with Barack. If we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to, you know, a fundraiser, what, what do I wear?

[Megyn Kelly]

Hold on, stand by. There's another one. Sat 3, standby.

[Michelle Obama]

I was accused of being angry.

[Megyn Kelly]

That.

[Michelle Obama]

It was shocking to me. Well, I didn't, I didn't really have that choice as first lady.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Every day, every time I was up, as we called it, you know, I was up for the public.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And the days were, were long. So as you mentioned, to save time.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, I, I know having a glam team, I. A trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was a time, time necessity. There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes ready that fit, you know, because where is the woman that can live off the rack?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right? No one can live off the rack. I'm sorry, but you have, you have to subject yourself to the burdens of a hair, makeup.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

By the way, by the way, how.

[Maureen Callahan]

Rich have they become since they left office? I mean, this is the deal, right? They serve their country on a not insignificant sum of money. I think it's about $400,000 a year to president gets. And they live in unparalleled luxury. Luxury the entire time they're in office. And when they leave, they make hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. Has anyone got a tiny violin for me? I can start playing here.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Ridiculous.

[Megyn Kelly]

Not for nothing, but did you see that hideous outfit she was wearing?

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm sorry, that's what having too much money does for you.

[Megyn Kelly]

I've just never met somebody so ungrateful in all my life. And what did she start it off with? People said I was hateful. Because you are. She can't stand America. She definitely can't stand Barack. And I don't think she likes herself very much either. So she's been doing this non stop chore and I just think there's a strain. There's. She's woke, he's woke. There's a strain in the woke that leads you to be absolutely miserable. Which is why they too should be praying for woke to die.

[Maureen Callahan]

And it's why I know this audience is not woke. Because you seem so happy.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes, look at me.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Look tomorrow, genuinely happy.

[Maureen Callahan]

People. Or it may. It may be having come from England recently where it was pouring with rain and freezing cold as it is for about eight months of a year, it may just be because of the weather.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, go Miami.

[Maureen Callahan]

The Florida weather.

[Megyn Kelly]

Enjoy it while you're here.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

I will.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you Piers Morgan. I love you so much. Grand Canyon University, an affordable private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona is one of the largest universities in the country. Praised for its culture of community and impact, GCU integrates the free market system, a welcoming Christian worldview, and free and open discourse into more than 360 academic programs, including more than 300 online. Join a nationwide community of learners redefining what online education looks like through academically rigorous and industry driven programs that can spark bold ideas and prepare you for a future that matters. In addition to federal grants and aid, GCU's online students receive nearly $161 million in institutional scholarships in 2024. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University Private Christian Affordable. Visit gcu Edu myoffer to see the scholarships you may qualify for. Let's be honest, America can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you could use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force can have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9 of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American. Hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, these less lethal self defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments and private security companies as well as over 600,000 burner pistols have been sold, most to private citizens who just refuse to be victims. Burna launchers fire rock hard kinetic rounds that will stop somebody in their tracks and powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles. That's more like it's like a pepper spray on steroids that's capable of stopping a threat from up to 60ft away. No background checks required, no waiting periods and Burna can ship straight to your door. You can get it in either orange or black. Take responsibility. Protect your future. Visit byrna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by r n a.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend.

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[Megyn Kelly]

Did you know you can opt out of winter with VRBO? Save up to $1,500 for booking a month long stay. When thousands of sunny homes are waiting for you, why subject yourself to the cold?

[Michelle Obama]

Put the snow shovel down, put the.

[Erica Kirk]

Parka back in the closet, and don't.

[Megyn Kelly]

You dare scrape another windshield. Slip into some flip flops, consider a sunless tan, and use the monthly stays filter to save up to fifteen hundred dollars. Book your warm getaway at vrbo.com hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM111, and on the Sirius XM app, Kim Kardashian is in the news. Forgive me, I try not to never say, ever say her name. But she's in the news because she came out on her the show with an admission that she has a brain aneurysm. And it's a sympathy ploy like, oh my God, I have a brain aneurysm. You know something's gonna happen to me and I'm so worried. Well, it turns out they taped this episode long before it actually hit air. And from the time she tried to get everybody worked up on her new victimhood status because we know this is such a currency. She showed up in New York City for the launch of her skims partnership with Nike. She went to that fashion show overseas where she had pantyhose all over her face. She's been on virtually every red carpet known to man. She's been doing talk shows. She's been doing comedy shows. There's really no stopping her from her public appearances. And as it turns out, the brain aneurysm is like some teeny, tiny little vein thing that virtually everybody has. And it's really not a big deal. It just needs to be monitored from time to time. She just played it up because she, like so many of these celebrities, wants to lean into victimhood status. Your thoughts on whether we should be moved by Kim's story?

[Piers Morgan]

I always had a brain aneurysm watching when she was selling the Merkins. Last week when she was selling those fake bush panties. I'm like, oh, I'm too gay like that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

I will say she did have, like a red curly one for Little Orphan Annie. I thought that was generous. She had a red one for Lindsay Lohan. I thought that was nice. But yeah, no, Kim Kardashian.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, I have to say, having grown up in the 70s, I don't remember it ever going that far.

[Piers Morgan]

Bush is back in office, honey, with that Anheuser Busch, Jenna Bush Hager. Okay?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

There was a lot of Bush going on.

[Piers Morgan]

So, no, I don't give a shit about Kim Kardashian. I think, honestly, Kim Kardashian, you guys, she has built a career and made billions of dollars off of giving women body dysmorphia. When Kim came into the game, everybody had to get a big ass. So girls went out there and they put themselves in harmful situations to get big asses. They went to foreign countries, they got injections. Now all the Kardashians are on Ozempic. What are those girls supposed to do from around the way who went and got big asses?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

So, yeah, they've just built this career off of giving women body dysmorphia and then with the fake bush panties. So you spend millions of dollars on laser hair removal to just drop a merkin. That's a scam right there.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's a scam and a scandal. Really? It's true.

[Piers Morgan]

Now she's got sheets over her head like frickin Islam or something. I don't know what's going on with her.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, it's all the rage in New York City. Talk about Michelle Obama. Michelle Obama just. I know you're all watching her podcast. You're the ones. Michelle Obama wants you to feel very sorry for her because it's very hard being Michelle Obama. Everybody wants a piece of Michelle. It's very hard to be so famous. Michael, Big Mike. That's what they're saying.

[Piers Morgan]

I will say she might have more testosterone than me, that bitch.

[Maureen Callahan]

Honestly.

[Piers Morgan]

Honestly, she might be packing more than me, that whore.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so she's upset because it's hard to be so famous. And she's upset because it was very expensive to live in the White House. They had to pay for their own food. Who has to pay for Their own food.

[Maureen Callahan]

Food.

[Megyn Kelly]

What kind of world is this? And just as soon as you start working up your sympathy glands for Michelle Obama, you see her just recently out on Steven Spielberg's yacht, cruising around the Mediterranean. While she literally wants you to feel sorry for her, so do you?

[Donald Trump Jr.]

No.

[Piers Morgan]

Do I feel sorry for Michelle Obama? Hell, no. I have this place where I send women I call the Unbearables, the inseparable for bulls. I send them in my mind to a place called Bitch island, okay? I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island. Meghan Markle, Kathy Griffin. That's where I send them. In my mind, the women of the View, Rosie. Rosie, they could host the show on Bitch Island. But Michelle Obama, right? She comes from humble beginnings. And it's always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly. Like she says, she grew up on the south side of Chicago. She's around the. The way girl. She's Michelle from the block. She's Michelle from the block. But then she's like, can you believe I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House? And I'm like, what? People are starving. We have an invasion at the border. I can't even take her seriously, Michelle Obama. But it's always this victim card. And I think on the left, these Democratic elites have realized playing the victim card is profitable. It gets you views, it gets people tuning in, but we're just all tired of it. We're so tired of it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is Katie Porter on Bitch Island?

[Piers Morgan]

No. I am Katie Porter's number one fan now. I need her to do more interviews with the Helga Oktoberfest haircut. I need Katie Porter. Look, I'm not in a position to opine on hair. I get it. But listen, Katie Porter, that woman, she looks like those women in the circus who could, like, lift 500 pounds. Katie Porter.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's not wrong, right?

[Piers Morgan]

So I need Katie Porter out there more.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm really into her. Like, the more interviews, the better with Katie Porter, right?

[Piers Morgan]

100%. Keep her talking like Kamala Harris. Keep her on the road. Every time she opens her mouth, it's a gift. It's a gift to us.

[Charlie Kirk]

She.

[Megyn Kelly]

She might. We have news about that. We'll talk about it in a minute with Mark Halpern on Comedy, our standby. So, yeah, I love Katie Porter because I like. The funny thing for me in watching all those clips is I understood her anger. Like when the staffer got in the back of the shot, you know, I get out of the fucking shot, the person Was in the shot, I would have been like, get Abby. Get out of there. But I. But I would have said it lovingly, you know, harshly, but lovingly. There's a way you shouldn't swear at your employees. Is a bad habit on camera. Yeah, but now the ex husband's coming out on camera. That's always bad. The ex husband's now coming out saying, she was a master manipulator. And now I'm like, all right, well, this is getting a little really interesting, but also untoward, because should we really be taking the ex husband word? I. I do, but should we be.

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, God, I don't have any ex husbands in the audience tonight, do I? No, I don't know if we should take his word. I heard that she poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on his head, and that's when I knew I loved her. When I. Scalding cauldron of potatoes on her husband's head. I said, oh, this woman's interesting.

[Megyn Kelly]

Allegedly.

[Piers Morgan]

Allegedly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Kamala Harris. I hear you've been enjoying her big. Her book tour.

[Piers Morgan]

Is it just me, or is Kamala Harris's book tour going longer than the campaign? Like, it's going longer and longer and longer. And I have these nicknames for Kamala. I call her cabernet Kamala. I call her Kamalamity. I think the sequel. Yeah, I think the sequel to 107 Days should be 12 Steps, maybe. I think bill W. Could be the co author, and if that offended you, call your sponsor.

[Megyn Kelly]

You can do the forward.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, you can do the forward. But, yeah, no Kamala Harris. I hope this book tour continues. I want her to run. And what's interesting in this book, Kamala Harris talks about choosing her running mate. And she says, I did not choose Pete Buttigieg because he was gay. And I thought, okay, you don't choose Pete Buttigieg because he's gay, but then you choose Tim Walls, the gayest man in captivity. Okay, Tim walls. Tim Walls, Mr. Jazz Hands. He walks into every room like Bob Fosse. Okay, sorry to get heated, but Tim Walls, this man with a questionable Internet search history. Okay, I was speaking to a. I was speaking to a room of gays last week. I was speaking to a roomma gay republican.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

I said, who do you think has slept with more men? Everyone in this room combined or Tim Walls. Okay, there is something going on there. And they said, we chose Tim Walls because he's the pinnacle of masculinity. I said, no, Michelle Obama is in.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Your party.

[Piers Morgan]

Not Tim Walls.

[Megyn Kelly]

He could use a few more testosterone. I mean, really, like, the thing with the camo hat was too much when he couldn't load the gun. I mean, you people down in Texas must have been horrified. We were down in Texas, Doug and I, about a couple years ago, with a bunch of friends, and we were gonna go motorbike riding. Like, it. Dirt bike riding in the woods. It was, like, midnight, and it was dark going up to the woods. There were, like 15 of us on these motorbikes, and it was summer, so everybody had on shorts and a T shirt. And our host looked around, he says, is anybody carrying? I'm, like, carrying. We're wearing, like, tiny shirts and shirts. Literally every man was like, I am, I am, I am, I am. Like, I'm in Texas. I'm not in New York anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I think some of my.

[Megyn Kelly]

Never felt so safe in my life.

[Piers Morgan]

If anyone tries to f with us tonight, we got some Texas patriots in the audience. I think we're good. I think we're good.

[Megyn Kelly]

God bless Texas. Don't mess with it. Although they are trying to mess with it. What's with Austin? Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't get it.

[Piers Morgan]

I see my MAGA ladies on the front row right here. I got my drunk ladies. Now, who did you vote for in the Trump cast?

[Megyn Kelly]

Love it. I mean, we did get Jasmine Crockett.

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, y' all heard of this woman, Jasmine Crockett? Okay, Jasmine Crockett, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point. I mean, she's become one of the most uncouth, inarticulate women in politics. And it's all a caricature. It's all a facade. With Jasmine Crockett, when you look up her background, right, she grew up in St. Louis. She went to private school. She says she passed the bar exam. I don't know if she was sitting at a bar or if she actually passed the bar exam.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'd like to see proof.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, she says she's an attorney. Jasmine Crockett. You pull up these old videos of her. She's talking like Eliza Doolittle or Queen Elizabeth. She's like, how do you do? Would you like crumpets and scones? You look up Jasmine Crockett now, she's.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like this mouthful Crocker, like a check, a book, a.

[Piers Morgan]

What the hell happened to Jasmine Crockett? This is identity theft.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay?

[Megyn Kelly]

Identity theft.

[Piers Morgan]

But the Democrats. Okay, this is why I can't stand the Democrats. We got some characters on the right. We love Trump We've got big personalities, but the Democrats are a bunch of overgrown theater kids. They don't want to work. They want to twerk and post dancing videos and sing. And the Democrats in D.C. okay, they're always breaking into song on the Capitol steps.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

They're running and dancing. They remind me of that show called Glee. Remember that show where they're running and singing and dancing and there's no plot? That is the Democrat Party.

[Megyn Kelly]

The rapid response choir. Nothing terrifies Trump more than the rapid response choir.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

No.

[Piers Morgan]

And you've got all these beta males like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Corey Booker. Just beta male. Beta male, beta.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, speaking of Cory Booker, what did the gays say about Cory Booker?

[Piers Morgan]

Well, my lawyer has told me not to opine on that tonight. He was knocking on my dressing room door.

[Megyn Kelly]

Remember those engagement photos that hit of him and his fiance? We're joyful. We're definitely really in love.

[Piers Morgan]

I was gonna say they look like Michelle and Barack's engagement photos, so maybe it's true love.

[Megyn Kelly]

Unclear. All right, so I did read in my avid following of Spoton that you are really happy for George Clooney, who has found Italy just too tough. An environment in which to raise his children at Lake Como is really unfortunate, I guess. And now has moved to France because he wants his kids to grow up in a place that's not obsessed with celebrity culture.

[Piers Morgan]

Absolutely. Meghan. And I know this will resonate with a lot of folks in the audience tonight. People in Texas, Arizona, Florida, they talk about this all the time. These liberals in states like California, they vote for every Democratic candidate. They shill for Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris. The second those policies come home to roost and they've got homelessness and crime running amok on the streets. They flee, they move to red states, and then they bring their policies to the red states. You're fleeing these blue states to come to red states, and you're bringing the same policies. We've had it.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

Okay.

[Piers Morgan]

We've had it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

And that's with George Clooney as well.

[Megyn Kelly]

Completely agree. He's such a charlatan. He's dying to be a journalist. He's not a journalist. He's got a lot of thoughts about journalism. He of the left. He wants to be hailed as a hero because he wrote that one op ed telling Joe Biden to drop out after the debate when we all knew he was totally infirm. He's like, aha. I have a big reveal for you. We're like, we already saw the end of this movie.

[Piers Morgan]

No, Megan, these Democrats got kudos and bona fides for saying, you know, Joe Biden might be in decline. And this is like, fall of 2024. The Mars Rover could see that Joe Biden was in decline.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay?

[Piers Morgan]

Like, these Democrats are writing op eds. Y' all are so brave. Oh, you're just so brave. Calling out Joe Biden. I'm like, the guy is non compos mentis. He's walking off into bushes. We can see with our own eyes what's happening.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. We did not need George Clooney's op ed. Now, the one person. I think it would be the worst. I mean, like, I would work for Katie Porter before I'd work for this person. Has to be Meghan Markle. She literally just lost her 10th head of publicity in, I think it's three years since she opened her little as ever business or whatever she's calling it these days. She cannot keep a staff. All of the people writing bios on her talk about what a nightmare she is, how nasty she is. She's smart enough not to get caught on camera. Get out of there, you. She's smart enough not to do that. Like Katie Order. But she's apparently even meaner than her because she cannot keep anyone in her employ. And she continues to try to mislead us into believing she's got this Netflix series deal. Even though season two was a fake, it was just an extension of season one that you tried to spin as a second season. And now she's trying to spin what's been changed into, like. And we want a third season into. We'll take a first look. As low as though that's a. Like a victory, like a promotion. No, first look is like, you can tell them that we made you a first look deal.

[Piers Morgan]

No, Meghan Markle, these two little hucksters over in Montecito, I cannot stand them, okay? I call her the Duchess of Scam a lot. The Duchess of White Castle. And my thing with Meghan Markle is this. She is still dining out on Her Royal Highness title. She's been gone six years. You know what I'm saying? She's still dining out to sell her jams, jellies, and dog biscuits and whatever other crap she's selling. But my thing with Meghan Markle is this. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. There are so many of us who are excited this American girl is going to marry this ginger prince, the most eligible bachelor on Earth. She goes in there, she can't stand it. But more than six months, they abscond to the U.S. and in the Queen's final dying days, what does she do? She goes and accuses them all of racism. She shanks them. She stabs them in the back. And they welcomed her with open arms. So I will never respect Meghan Markle for that. That's not how you treat people who welcomed you with open arms.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Piers Morgan]

Gave you a life and a career.

[Charlie Kirk]

Come on.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's not a good person. How long do we give that marriage?

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, God, maybe 45 more minutes. We'll check after this.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's not going to be long. So tell us a little bit about you, Link, because your political rise has been rapid and really impressive. And it was because the RFKJ campaign found you. Right? It was your own talents that got you noticed.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, thank you. And can I just say, I'm on stage with Megyn Kelly right now. This is really cool.

[Erica Kirk]

Sweet.

[Piers Morgan]

I was on her show the first time one year ago this month.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Piers Morgan]

And they passed on me. Megan might not even know this. I had people reaching out. Hey, you guys should have link. I would send cold emails. I said, if we can meet, we will hit it off. So be tenacious people out there, because now I'm on the tour.

[Megyn Kelly]

I did not know that. So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona. Hello. Nicely done. Very, very top selection. And that you were a businesswoman in New York when you first got interested in Turning Point. So what were you doing in New York?

[Erica Kirk]

So to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, first and foremost, I'm a daughter to the king, to the most high. That's the most important title, if you will. And my husband, in August, before all this happened, he had a event where he had some donors at, and one of the first questions they asked was, God forbid, if something happened to you, like what, what, what would happen next to Turning Point? And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said companies, you know, example, Apple Macintosh, he said they're founder led. He said, but what I have built is will one day, if I'm not around, be vision led. And he had made mention at the end, like, you know, Erica will do a great job running it. And when I watched that video this week, it really put into perspective my youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed, you know, my mom having her own company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of, you know, I'm not afraid of raising my children alone because I, I saw my mom do that. I'm not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my mom do that. The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the alignment of God's will because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in. And, and so for me, growing up, when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That's where I needed to be. I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in la and I said, lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear. Bought a one way ticket to New York, one suitcase. My mom was like, what are you going to do when you're there? I was like, I'll figure it out once I get there. I just need, that's where the Lord needs me. And so many people question that. They said, you're such a strong Christian, why would you go to such a dark city? And I said, the more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it gets. So that's where I'm going. And I was there.

[Megyn Kelly]

And yeah, but when I, when I moved to New York, my brother said, why would you want to move to New York? And I said, it's the big city of dreams. And he said, scary, nasty, wake up in the middle of the night screaming dreams. So I get it right, but it. So you were working in New York for a while and then you went back to Arizona to apply for the Turning Point job.

[Erica Kirk]

So I was in New York. I was casting director. I was signed with a modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior to meeting Charlie and, and rewind a little bit. I went to Turning Point's office opening for their first building. And Tyler runs Turning Point action now. And he said, you need to meet the CEO. I said, okay, great. Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, hi, nice to meet you. Neither of us thought anything of it. Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said we need to hire. Or Tyler said, we need to hire her. And he goes. And he's like, where'd she live? And Tyler said, new York. He's like, okay, I'm going to have a Fox News hit and then I'm going to sit down with her and interview her in New York. So lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan. And I thought I was so career minded, man. My, my mother raised me to. And this is why I can relate a lot to the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women. Where it's career oriented, because my mom used to tell me, don't feel like you need to rely on a man for life and work. And. And so my mindset, my healthy marriage example was my grandparents, but my mindset was career, career, career. When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him because I thought it was a consulting position for work. I was not thinking. I did not date in Manhattan. I saw the pits of hell of the dating pool through my roommates, and I was not touching that with a. Any longest pole you can imagine. I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan. So I viewed it as obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be. And the Lord knew I just. Charlie, in some way similar to how, you know, he sees things in a lot of people in some way, beautifully saved me from a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband, because it's easy to do when, as a female, when you see bright lights, big city. But he. The Lord used him. The Lord used him.

[Megyn Kelly]

How long did it take you to fall in love with him?

[Erica Kirk]

He. That's the funny thing is it was. It's so interesting because when we were sitting there, I fell in love with how brilliant he was to be able to articulate what he believed in. And when he said, I'm not going to hire you, I'm going to date you, I knew that was the Lord, because there were so many times where I said that my future husband that's out there, he will literally, it will. Will be. The only reason why I look up is because the Lord says to look up. And that was something to look up to when someone's like, I'm going to date you. And so I just.

[Charlie Kirk]

And.

[Erica Kirk]

But honestly, it was the. The constant consistency of I'm here for you, you know, the little texts in the morning. And then it just continued to grow in a beautiful way. So, yes, love at first sight, yes, obviously. But I, again, my mindset wasn't there. His was. So that you think of it, you're in an interview, you have to totally do a 180 of a mindset. But I honestly, where like the depths of the love started was when we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together.

[Megyn Kelly]

By the time we saw that video where he introduced you as his fiance and the two of you were staring at each other.

[Erica Kirk]

Oh, I was upset. I'm still obsessed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Break your gaze. I mean, that, that's. I think, as the kids would say, hashtag goals for virtually everybody who wants love in Their life.

[Erica Kirk]

So you.

[Megyn Kelly]

You did get married.

[Erica Kirk]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

You have two kids, Two precious babies. And you told me this in private, but how many kids did you guys want to have?

[Erica Kirk]

We wanted to have four. Yeah. And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow. I thought of that once. Just, like, whether it was meant to be or whether we. I know we'd get news like that.

[Erica Kirk]

I was like, oh, goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing out of this catastrophe. So now when I see young couples, I tell them, please, like, don't put it off. Especially if you're a young woman, don't put it off. You can always have a career. You can always, you know, go back to work. You can never just go back to having children. And they grow so fast and so quickly. But I just. I was praying. Both of us were. We. We were really excited to just expand our family.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank God you have. Have the two.

[Erica Kirk]

I know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank God. You know, girl, I know one day they'll find out. Right now they're just, you know, little loves, and one day they'll find out that they're Charlie Kirk's children, and they'll know what that means. So I wanted to ask you, Erica, because you are so faithful, whether you. You had any premonition that something was going to happen to Charlie. Because I really do see you as connected, more so than the average, than the rest of us, to God. And I just wonder, did you have any sort of a feeling?

[Erica Kirk]

We always. We. See, the thing is, is that I guess we just operate differently. We always knew there were threats. We always knew that there were people out there that hated us with deep, deep passion of hate. But it didn't scare us. Never. He was never afraid of that. Neither was I. Obviously, we protect our children. You know, we don't show their faces on the Internet, so that's very intentional. But I think we lived our life in such a way where if that was our last day, it was our last day. Like, we always lived as if it was the last day. That's why Charlie's speeches were so good, because he didn't know if that was going to be his last speech. And he was so intentional about every word. Every word had a meaning and. And every speech had a connection point for the students and for whoever he was speaking to. And that's why he never missed the opportunity to weave the gospel into what he was saying.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. That's what made him so much more powerful. Powerful than the rest of us. If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk, and many of you know, the right wing pundits or commentators, it's that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying with biblical references, with faith based wisdom, which made it ten times more powerful. And people knew it. You know, it's one of the things we're all missing right now.

[Erica Kirk]

But to answer your question, you know, we. We always knew there were threats. We always knew that that could be a possibility. But obviously, you know, but we never lived in fear of when that day would be. We just trusted the Lord every day, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, of course, in the wake of Charlie's death, many are living under threat. I mean, the nut cases have gotten very loud and emboldened, and I just wonder whether it was the kind of threat, like, environment that you needed to actually worry that something could happen, or was it just the din of, like, there are haters out there. You get these nutcase letters sometimes. You know, was it something. Something like. No, it's actually getting really serious and we need to worry, or was it just the din of like.

[Erica Kirk]

No. I mean, you would see, obviously leading up to that, there was several shootings. There was several individuals with guns on campus. So you. You knew that the threat was there and things were starting to heat up. But again, it wasn't anything that, you know, you would think any different.

[Megyn Kelly]

Acute.

[Erica Kirk]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I know that the morning he died, he went back into your room. He had slept in your daughter's room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle. There was a switcheroo. We've all been there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring. Right. And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael's medal.

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah, I wear it every day. It's right here.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow. Oh, it's so beautiful.

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And Erica, I. Help me understand. I. I genuinely don't understand. I've asked Frank Turek this. I've asked everyone. I can ask this question. I don't understand how you can be wearing your cross and your St. Michael's medal and be shot to death. I feel as Charlie felt that that's a. That's armor. You know, we wear that to protect us, and we believe God will protect us. How have you squared that?

[Erica Kirk]

The Lord is so powerful and we're not meant to understand all of his ways, but there's mercy in that, knowing that God uses evil for good. I don't know what exactly that is, but I do Know that the Lord will use it. And if that means revival the Lord, I. I told people, I said, I have never found more comfort in the statement, thy will be done.

[Megyn Kelly]

Explain that. Why?

[Erica Kirk]

Because it shows that control is an absolute illusion. The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head, and he knows the number of our days. And that's why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in life was so important and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to this whole story. And we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes, about how when you look at a tapestry on one side, you see all of these hanging threads. It doesn't make any sense. They're all different colored threads all over the place. But when you turn that tapestry around, you see how beautifully woven together and how intentional every thread is to that tapestry. And yes, I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God every single day. I mean, henceforth, all of my bracelets and rings, like everything has meaning to me. And that's why I always wear my bracelets, always wear my rings, always wear my. My necklaces. And it's one of those things where we will never understand, understand God's ways fully were not meant to. We. We wouldn't be. Our. Our mortal brains would not be able to even compute what he has designed and put together. But what I do know is that the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways, and I still feel so deeply connected to him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Erica Kirk]

And I know that the Lord used such evil to bring about something that will eventually come to good.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's already started. I've seen it. I am a big believer in signs. You know, I think when you lose somebody, if you ask for a sign. Do you guys believe in signs? Have you gotten any from him?

[Erica Kirk]

You know, it's so interesting. When we first started dating, this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it'll be a sign for you to know that Charlie's with you. And sometimes something. When we first started dating, we would walk. We were walking to dinner one night and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker, and he'd look up at the light and be like, you know, it's so weird. This happens to me a lot. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah. So our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we'd be a room and a light started to flicker, he would just look at me and wink. It was like our little thing, his power. Yeah, It's a total frequency thing. And so the night, everything Happened when we were in Utah. I was in a hotel room by myself in the. One of the bedroom portion by myself. And the bathroom light was on, and it just was a strobe light all night, just fl. And I was like, part of me couldn't sleep because it was a strobe light. The other part of me couldn't sleep because of how just my world has just crumbled. And the other part of me couldn't sleep because I was like, baby, I feel you. I know you're here. So that was, you know, some signs, but another sign, too, is just my. My daughter, you know, just saying little things and like, okay, I see you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is she starting to get it?

[Erica Kirk]

I. Yes and no.

[Megyn Kelly]

I.

[Erica Kirk]

We talk. I make. I. We talk about heaven. I make it really exciting. I tell her, daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts to my children, thank you. I tell her, my son, he's only a year and a half, but I tell both of them, daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know, Daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved. And the other day she was like, tell me about Daddy's day in heaven.

[Megyn Kelly]

So just.

[Erica Kirk]

We talk about that at night. And then sometimes I'll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today. And we just. I just try to make it exciting because it is.

[Megyn Kelly]

It is.

[Erica Kirk]

Heaven is. Heaven's our home. So I just want her to know that Daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in heaven.

[Megyn Kelly]

How do you. Yeah, I know that you haven't watched the video, and you shouldn't watch the video, and you don't.

[Erica Kirk]

I've never watched the video.

[Megyn Kelly]

And you don't want the kids to watch the video. Yeah, but how do you. How are you going to handle it when they get older, Erica, and they start to learn about the haters? Right. Because there does have to come a time where that needs to be put in the proper perspective. Charlie was so tough. He. It was hard to get him rattled about these attacks. But. And I can speak to this having. Having my own children, two of whom are backstage. You know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand the terrible negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love. Have you thought about that at all? Like, how you're going to walk them into that?

[Erica Kirk]

You know, it's. I, first and foremost want my children to have a childhood, so that's Another reason why I don't put them on the Internet. It's another reason why I don't expose them to certain screens. Screen time. I've said it before. Some of the shows, the only shows it would watch is Charlie Bob Ross because he has a very nap inducing voice. And then, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie's events. But I want them to be children first. And I want to teach them so much about God, Jesus, so that when they do get older and they do see the hate, they also understand how much good is still out there. And they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil. And they can pray for those people and not be afraid. I'd never want them to be afraid, but I want them to also see that that evil is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing something to make a difference. Because if, if you're not getting attacked or slandered or whatever else out there, you're just looking a lot like the rest of the world. And I would want them to know that that's okay. You know, I, I have been called so many names, I have been slandered and none of that means anything to me. It's all just noise crazy. It's unbelievable.

[Megyn Kelly]

Watching people turn on you has been one of the most unexpected, strange, terrible things.

[Erica Kirk]

You know what? Again, and I know you get this because you have a very. You have a thick skin and a soft heart. The thing is, is that the more that people. And it gets outlandish, more and more crazy as time goes on, because there's just a void that apparently needs to be filled. But I'm okay with the world not understanding me. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with they, you know, I don't want to look like the world as Christians were called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand me, then I'm not doing something right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well said. Forgive me. Did you see? People didn't understand the hug that you and J.D. had. They. They went to the weirdest places.

[Erica Kirk]

Erica. Oh my gosh, you guys, please. So for those of you who know me, I never. I. I'm a very. I love. I. Hug is like.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're an intense hugger.

[Erica Kirk]

Whoever is like hating on a hug needs a hug themselves. I will give you a free hug anytime you want to hug, my love language is touch if you will. But seriously, that hug. So I will give you a play by play walking. They just played the emotional video. I'm Walking over. He's walking over. I'm starting to cross cry. He says he's so proud of you. And I say, God bless you. And I touch the back of his head. Anyone who have I've hugged that I have touched the back of your head. When I hug you, I always say, God bless you. That's just me. If you want to take that out of context, go right ahead. Again, that to me shows that you need a hug more than anyone else. So if anyone, they were acting like.

[Megyn Kelly]

You touched the back of his ass.

[Erica Kirk]

I feel like I wouldn't get as much hate if I did that. Versus. But no, seriously. So now when I go and hug people, I'll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn't give you the right hug. Like, come let me touch the back of your head.

[Maureen Callahan]

Let's go.

[Erica Kirk]

I don't know what to do with my.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can't touch the head. What can I touch?

[Erica Kirk]

I know, I'm just not me.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm always like, if you touch the back of my head, I'm like, oh, she's feeling the extensions.

[Erica Kirk]

That's another other thing. People think my hair is fake. It is very real.

[Megyn Kelly]

My hair stylist told me, your hair is real. She was like, oh, no, that's all real.

[Erica Kirk]

This is real. I love some women real. They like come and touch the back of my head. I'm like, what are you doing?

[Megyn Kelly]

They're feeling. Yeah, they're patting the weave. I know. Anyways, how is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life? We want to know.

[Erica Kirk]

My mother. Okay, so I was, I loved sports growing up. I was the, my, I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach, he was Charles Barkley of all people, which is amazing to have as your 5 year old ymca coach.

[Megyn Kelly]

Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll.

[Erica Kirk]

No, it was great. He's an awesome man. His daughter was, it was a dear friend. And so I loved sports and my mom, I was swimming all the time. I was always super active. And since my mom worked, I was always at the Boys and Girls Club, always. And I was the last kid to get picked up from the Boys and Girls Club every single day. And the poor counselor or whatever you want to call him, that had to stand with me waiting for my mom to pick me up every day. I, I loved sports. I loved, loved basketball so much. It was such a good escape for me as a child. And I remember my hair from swimming was so ratted because I have very coarse hair. And my mom hated combing my hair. And so her solution was a bowl cut straight across. Traumatizing to this point. My hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair. I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders. Charlie loved my hair though. He, he just, he loved how long it was.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what you're saying is you have long, thick, coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out and take care of and you're not black or named Michelle Obama, which is fascinating. That can happen with all the concern.

[Erica Kirk]

Conspiracy theories out there. I'm not going to touch that one either.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hopefully you haven't been paying too much attention to the news cycle, but they know what I'm talking about.

[Erica Kirk]

No, but the, the, my hair, to get back to that is something that I just, I, it was, I'm not gonna cut it. I'm not gonna. You know, Charlie liked it long. He liked it, he liked it long. And here we are. And. But my mom, if you ask my mom, she'll tell you it's when she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese Italian background. And you're supposed to shave your kid's head when they're two and then it's supposed to grow back really thick after that. I was a product of the shaved head. So if you would like to try that on your 2 year old. Unsolicited advice.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does it work on the 55 year old?

[Erica Kirk]

I have no idea. You guys tell me.

[Ben Shapiro]

I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

I get to try. You know, you raised the issue of.

[Erica Kirk]

The girls see us shaved head by December. You know why? Oh yeah, we all look like Britney Spears.

[Megyn Kelly]

The headline will they went full skinhead, right? Yeah.

[Erica Kirk]

There you go.

[Megyn Kelly]

And are listening to Nick.

[Erica Kirk]

The last thing that'll be no.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it's a no.

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

While we're on the subject because you really were a very strong female athlete, can I ask you your position on that? Because.

[Charlie Kirk]

No.

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah, totally.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, because that's is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapinoe in the news just this week saying people are, they don't really mean it. They don't actually have an objection to men playing in women's sports. They're just using it like as an issue. She made all her money, she's sitting pretty. But she wants your daughter to play against boys. Your thoughts on it?

[Maureen Callahan]

So.

[Erica Kirk]

Well, you can take this as a twofold. So if you're looking at it from the sports angle where you're playing up against men, I mean, I know this has been said before, but then, what's the point of female sports? But to me, being an idiot, I played in college. I worked so hard for that scholarship. I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the lane, always. I always shot the 3. That was like my thing. I'm not driving to have someone who's like six, seven, just, pat, this is not happening.

[Megyn Kelly]

She said it.

[Erica Kirk]

So for me, sports has a very special place in my heart. But as a mom now and watching my daughter compete, it's just. I know they say, you know, life isn't fair. I get that life's not fair. But there's certain things that are really special, and women's sports is one of them. And it's really. Some people look down on it, some people think it's not it. But, you know, those girls have worked so hard for their position, and to have it taken away from them by someone who. Who couldn't rank in their own sport and field, it's demoralizing. And it also weighs on the whole topic of being a woman, being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete. And I wouldn't want that taken away from anybody.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right. Having the glorious chance of accomplishment. I mean, you will never win. If we're playing against biological boys, we'll never have that glorious feeling of crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game winning shot, because it's always going to go to a man. It's just one of the basic things. They always talk about the unfairness of it and the safety of it. But just think about that, like the glorious feeling of winning, which I never had because I wasn't an athlete. But you had it.

[Erica Kirk]

I don't know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of a athletic feat.

[Megyn Kelly]

So, you know, I had it. Like when Don Lemon got fired. It depends.

[Erica Kirk]

That was your moment.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. You know, we all look for our moments. Yeah, we feel good. If you're ever worried about the safety of your home, you need to hear about Simplisafe's early access Black Friday sale. We're already having Black Friday sales. This is great. Traditional security systems respond after somebody has broken into your house. It's a little late. Simply safe is different. It can stop crimes before they happen. It's like Minority Report, only in real life with active guard outdoor protection. AI powered cameras detect threats while they're still outside of your home. And then they alert real security agents. The agents take action while the intruder is still outside. They confront the Intruder. They let them know they're on cam. Can you imagine this? Don't you want to see this happen? They alert cops and it even triggers a loud siren and spotlight if needed. Busted. Simplisafe's agents have your back even if you are not there. There are no long term contracts. Those are annoying. No hidden fees. Even more annoying. And you can cancel at any time. Simplisafe has been named best home security system by U.S. news and World Report five years in a row now. And they offer a 60 day money back guarantee. Don't miss out. Simplisafe's biggest sale of the year. 60% off a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com Megan 6 0% off [e-mail] Megan there's no safe like Simplisafe. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you can use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force can have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, these less lethal self defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments and private security companies as well. Over 600,000 burner pistols have been sold. Most to private citizens who just refuse to be victims. Burna launchers fire rock hard kinetic rounds that will stop somebody in their tracks. And powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles. That's more like. It's like a pepper spray on steroids. That's capable of stopping a threat from up to 60ft away. No background checks required, no waiting periods. And Burner can ship straight to your door. You can get it in either orange or black. Take responsibility. Protect your future. Visit Burna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by r n a.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend. I want to ask you about the book that you're holding in your hand.

[Erica Kirk]

Yes, Charlie's book. I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere. Stop in the name of God. It's coming out soon.

[Megyn Kelly]

Charlie's coming out with a book? Yeah, he's coming out with a book.

[Erica Kirk]

Stop.

[Megyn Kelly]

Stop in the Name of God. Which is a great title. Stop in the Name of God. And what is it about?

[Erica Kirk]

Took him a year and a half to write it. And this book. I mean, when I'm reading it, I'm like, I did not even know you knew that. It is so powerful. Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the importance of rest and reading this. And I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of it. Because the thing that's so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this, they tell you that when you read the Bible, it's the living word of God. And it is. And you see the Lord in Technicolor when you read the Bible and you actually understand those words. And so for me, reading Charlie's journals and reading this book, it's like he's. I mean, he's still. He's present with the Lord, but it feels like he's still fully here. And that's what's so powerful about this book. And I watched him as a wife completely transform into an already. I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but a totally elevated him when he was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took that seriously, that time to rest seriously. And I just can't help but think, like everything. And to go to your point of signs, I don't think anything is by coincidence, but to have this be his last book and to him totally master what it means to rest with the Lord. It's all for us full circle now, because it's the ultimate Sabbath where he is right now.

[Megyn Kelly]

When did you get to read it?

[Erica Kirk]

When? Yeah, as much as I can driving into the office or.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, but I mean, was it written entire in its entirety before Charlie died? Yes, it was.

[Erica Kirk]

Yes, it was. He finished writing this, I believe in July, June or July of this year.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you had read it.

[Erica Kirk]

But to read it in a book format and not an email format that he would send me is something night and day difference. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What are. What are the pages that are folded.

[Erica Kirk]

Over the one that I. Well, all of them are amazing, but the one that I wanted to read was the part about sleeping because Charlie, his adrenaline was always going and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night. Henceforth snacks at like 2am and did.

[Megyn Kelly]

You tell me olive and bananas? Not together.

[Erica Kirk]

Not together. But you know, he was like even.

[Megyn Kelly]

Snacking in a healthy manner.

[Erica Kirk]

Almonds. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Also, we do have to discuss the fact that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year. Twice or twice. Fourth of July and his birthday.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And. And no ice cream. Any other Day.

[Erica Kirk]

His self control and self discipline was phenomenal. And to the point too, where when I was pregnant, 70% of the reason why no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation. The other 30% was because I just was with my babies. But 70% of it was, I'm really hungry. I think I should. I have a milkshake. Baby, get that milkshake. But I don't know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake. I'm gonna go and get you that milkshake. Do you want a hot fudge sundae too? I'm gonna get the In N Out burger. No question. Questions? I'll be right back. Animal style. So he'd come home, he loved it because he loved driving around at night. So he'd come home with the In N Out burger, animal style, protein stuff, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge sundae, the chocolate shake. And he would be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it. But that was because he was living vicariously through me. So no joke, I got to like £190. I was like, I am literally going to weigh my more than you by the end of this pregnancy. And he'd be like, baby, you look great. You don't worry about that. That's just baby weight. That'll. I mean, granted it does go away.

[Megyn Kelly]

It takes a lot of eating his olives.

[Erica Kirk]

No, no, he's just watching me and I'm like, I will enjoy this hot fudge sundae while you wish that you could have. But he was so self disciplined and he was so good about eating. He was biohacking was his love language of being healthy, eating clean. He could not operate weight on fast food the way that he was in general. Like, that's why he never drank. That's why he never. It wasn't from, you know, a motive of I'm better than whoever it was from the motive of I need to operate as if I'm going to war every single day and I can't operate on this type of food.

[Megyn Kelly]

And speaking of the sleep, that's very.

[Erica Kirk]

No, right. So the sleep was important because I was like, he. He loves, loved his sleep. And something that I was very intentional about is when he came home, I would always let him sleep in. Always on the weekends. I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took. And I would want him to wake up when it was time to wake up because I knew how important rest was for him. And so when I read this in the book, I just. It was on my heart to share it with you because it. The title of it says, jesus slept, Elijah slept, and so can you. And he said so. Start tonight. Close the laptop, power down the phone. Let the dishes wait. Pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body permission to do what it was created to do, to rest. Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head touches the pillow and whisper to God, I release it all to you. You don't need to check one more email. You don't need to prove anything. You don't need to carry the weight of the world. It already has a savior, and it's not you. Sleep is not a distraction from your purpose. It is part of your purpose. It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body, and quiets your soul. The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child. And children's sleep well when they know their father is near. So go ahead, embrace the gift. Make your Sabbath a day not just of rest, but of sleep. Deep, joyful and replenishing sleep you're allowed. And more than that, you're invited. Rest isn't weakness, it's worship. And tomorrow will be better because you trusted God enough to rest today.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow. He was keeping the Sabbath.

[Erica Kirk]

So with that, since today is his Sabbath, I wanted to read to you from his journal.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow. Is that it right there?

[Erica Kirk]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Erica Kirk]

In his handwriting, a note that he wrote to himself for to honor the Sabbath said, dear Lord, thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision. Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace. Lord, I did better this week despite the challenges of travel. I miss my wife. It's hard to be away from her for a few days. Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first. Lord, I have realized the following. The battle against the mind is Satan's playground. He dwells and prows to destroy. The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience. Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth and the life. Thank you for blessing our organization. I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting. Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged. Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom and direction, your comfort and your healing. We love you, Lord. Thank you for another Sabbath ck.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow, Erica, I know you touched on it earlier, but I. One of the reactions I have to hearing that is like, I get angry. How can that man have been taken?

[Erica Kirk]

How?

[Megyn Kelly]

He was all goodness. The left, who are bastardizing his memory, have no idea what they're talking about. Charlie was all goodness. I know we can't understand God's plan, but have you had bouts of anger? You know, I. I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got chipped out of, what poor Charlie now is going to miss. And I feel anger. Angry sadness, of course, obviously, but, yes, against the accused shooter. But just. I know you don't ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

[Erica Kirk]

I mean, I understand.

[Megyn Kelly]

How do you make sense of that? And do you. Do you have any anger when you think about it, towards the Lord? But in general.

[Erica Kirk]

The enemy would love for me to be angry.

[Donald Trump Jr.]

He would love it.

[Erica Kirk]

Because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me, raising our babies, turning point, being there for the team, being there for what the future holds. And if I had any amount of anger in my heart, spirit, the Lord would not be able to use me. And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, here I am, Lord. Use me. And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy, he wouldn't be able to.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know at Charlie's memorial, right across the way here, there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer. And, I mean, I looked and I said, that's the most powerful, strongest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life. And then somebody helped me understand because I thought I could never do it. I could never do it. And somebody said to me, forgiveness is an action, not an emotion. And I was like, okay, that's getting me closer to feeling like I could do it if I don't actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person. But I wonder, like, how do you. If you. If you could say something to him, if you could, like, if you say something to his parents, like, what would it be? Would it be anger? Would it be sympathy? What would it be?

[Erica Kirk]

That's a good question. Wouldn't be. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be sympathy. It wouldn't be anger. How do you put this? Anything that I could ever wish upon him or that family. Would pale in comparison of the justice of God. And so I would look at them almost like, I'm so glad I'm not you. I am so glad I'm not. Not you. And I pray that, you know, you figure out a way to be right with the Lord, but our God is sovereign, but he's also very just. We serve a very just filled God.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear. America is built on hard work and powered by American energy. Chevron has spent $44 billion with local businesses across all 50 states since 2022, fueling infrastructure and communities, all while strengthening local economies. Last year, Chevron increased U.S. production nearly 20%, powering communities and businesses from the heartlands to the coasts. We're helping to fuel America's energy advantage, building a brighter future right here at home. Visit chevron.comamera to discover more.

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