Tulsi Gabbard on Investigating the Leaks, Fighting the Deep State, and Whether She'll Run in 2028 | Ep. 1061

Summary

Summary of "Tulsi Gabbard on Investigating the Leaks, Fighting the Deep State, and Whether She'll Run in 2028 | Ep. 1061"

The Megyn Kelly Show, hosted by Megyn Kelly on SiriusXM, features a comprehensive interview with John Ratcliffe, the Director of National Intelligence. The episode delves into critical subjects such as the integrity of the intelligence community, handling leaks, national security threats, border security, and internal administrative reforms.

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1. Introduction and Context

[00:45] Megyn Kelly:
Megyn Kelly opens the show by reflecting on her initial encounter with Tulsi Gabbard, noting the significant changes in both their careers over five years. She introduces John Ratcliffe, emphasizing his pivotal role in overseeing 18 intelligence agencies and his commitment to transparency and accountability within the intelligence community.

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2. The Role and Mission of the Director of National Intelligence

[04:43] Megyn Kelly:
Kelly inquires about Ratcliffe's initial actions upon assuming his role. Ratcliffe shares his proactive approach:

[06:18] John Ratcliffe:
"The first thing that I did was actually send out an email to all the people who work here and said, I'll be down here in this lobby... It was standing room only here. I was grateful to be able to have the opportunity to just immediately address those who work here..."

He highlights the warm reception and the immediate dialogue with intelligence professionals, setting the tone for his leadership focused on serving the American people.

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3. Combating Leaks and the Deep State

[08:30] Megyn Kelly:
Kelly addresses the challenges of dealing with internal leaks and the opposition Ratcliffe faces within the intelligence community.

[09:00] John Ratcliffe:
"Bringing about transparency and accountability, shining a light in areas that haven't seen the light in a very long time..."
Ratcliffe discusses his efforts to root out corruption and ensure that intelligence operations align with public interest rather than hidden agendas.

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4. Declassification of Historical Documents

[10:25] Megyn Kelly:
The conversation shifts to the declassification of JFK and RFK assassination documents.

[11:27] John Ratcliffe:
"There were new pieces of information that was declassified... the important thing is that the transparency is there."
He underscores the value of transparency even if it doesn’t solve longstanding mysteries, emphasizing the government's commitment to openness.

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5. Investigating COVID-19 Origins

[12:23] Megyn Kelly:
Kelly brings up the controversial claim by the Chinese State Council regarding COVID-19's origins.

[13:00] John Ratcliffe:
"We are working on that with Jay Bhattacharya... hopefully very soon."
Ratcliffe elaborates on the ongoing investigations into the virus's origins, hinting at potential links to U.S.-funded research but remains cautious about definitive conclusions.

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6. National Security Threats: Iran and Cartels

[22:29] John Ratcliffe:
Discussing Iran, Ratcliffe reassures that military options remain available but emphasizes diplomatic efforts:

"Any deal that is potentially made with Iran will have to come with a very, very rigorous set of verification."
He criticizes previous administrations for inadequate intelligence use and asserts the importance of peace through strength.

[38:36] John Ratcliffe:
Shifting to border security, Ratcliffe highlights the collaboration between various agencies to combat cartel activities:

"We are identifying almost 600 people who are known or suspected terrorists who illegally came into our country."
He emphasizes the coordinated efforts to deport or prosecute individuals linked to criminal organizations.

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7. Addressing the Fentanyl Crisis

[43:19] John Ratcliffe:
Ratcliffe acknowledges fentanyl as a top domestic threat, discussing the intelligence community's role in dismantling cartel operations:

"President Trump recognized this as the greatest domestic threat."
He outlines the strategic partnerships with international counterparts to secure borders and eliminate trafficking channels.

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8. Reforming Internal Operations: DEI Initiatives

[60:19] John Ratcliffe:
Ratcliffe critiques previous administration's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives, detailing the shutdown of related offices to reallocate funds:

"There was a DEI office that was immediately shut down... $150 million today."
He argues that focusing on DEI detracts from national security priorities and undermines operational efficiency within intelligence agencies.

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9. Handling Signalgate and Internal Communications

[66:08] Megyn Kelly:
Kelly references the misuse of Signal for confidential communications during the Biden administration.

[68:10] John Ratcliffe:
"Officials I know for certain that it was to include national security officials."
Ratcliffe defends the use of secure communication channels, clarifying that incidents of misuse are exceptions rather than the rule.

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10. Looking Ahead: Potential Political Ambitions

[69:31] John Ratcliffe:
When asked about future political aspirations, Ratcliffe remains open but non-committal:

"I will never rule out any opportunity to serve my country."
He expresses gratitude for his current role and dedication to national service.

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11. Closing Remarks and Endorsement of Leadership

[71:10] John Ratcliffe:
Ratcliffe praises President Trump's leadership qualities:

"He's a very bold leader... effective at connecting with the American people."
He emphasizes Trump’s commitment to the American populace and his strategic approach to governance.

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Notable Quotes:

• John Ratcliffe [06:18]:
  "I laid out who I am, my background, and the mandate that the American people delivered by electing Donald Trump."

• John Ratcliffe [09:00]:
  "Bringing about transparency and accountability, shining a light in areas that haven't seen the light in a very long time."

• John Ratcliffe [13:00]:
  "We are working on that with Jay Bhattacharya and look forward to being able to share that hopefully very soon."

• John Ratcliffe [66:34]:
  "That is part of what we're doing in our investigative work as we go back and look, for example, at Crossfire Hurricane."

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Conclusion

The episode provides an in-depth look into the challenges facing the intelligence community, highlighting John Ratcliffe's commitment to transparency, combating internal leaks, and addressing significant national security threats. Ratcliffe's insights into administrative reforms and his unwavering support for President Trump's leadership offer listeners a clear perspective on the current state and future direction of U.S. intelligence operations.

Transcript

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[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We have a very special program for you this morning all about Tulsi Gabbard. When I first met Tulsi, she was still a Democrat and it was early on in her career. When she first came on this show, we didn't even have video. It was an audio only podcast and you could hear her with the birds tweeting in the background from her home state of Hawaii. And the two of us were wondering what our next move was in life. This podcast was fledgling. She had been ostracized by the Democrats and the Democrat party and here we are five years later, both in very different places. She's now running at the top of 18 intelligence agencies and I'm down here interviewing her at the office of the Director of National Intelligence. So many did not want her to get this post because while Hillary Clinton and others accused her of being pooh, et cetera, what crushes them about Tulsi Gabbard is she's no one's puppet. She won't be bought, she won't be bullied, and she won't be cowed in saying how she really feels by the military industrial complex or anyone else. So we just completed a fascinating hour long talk about so many different things. It's Tulsi like you've seen her a bit before, you know, still straightforward and moving and honest in her commentary, but in a brand new, really big role. Enjoy. This July, there is a global summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro, the bloc of emerging superpowers, you know, including China, Russia, India and Iran. They're meeting with the goal of displacing the US dollar as the global currency. They're calling this the Rio Reset. As BRICS nations push forward with their plans, global demand for US dollars will decrease, bringing down the value of the dollars in your savings potentially. While this transition won't happen overnight, the Rio Reset in July marks a pivotal moment when BRICS objectives move decisively from theoretical possibility toward inevitable reality, according to many experts. Learn if diversifying your savings into gold is right for you. Birch Gold Group can help you move your hard earned savings into a tax sheltered IRA and precious metals. Claim your free info kit on gold by texting MK to 989-898 with an A rating with the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers. Let Birchgold arm you with a free no obligation info kit on owning gold before July and the RIO Reset text MK to 989-898 today. Message and data rates apply. Tulsi Gabbard I'm so excited to be here with you. There's significance to where we are. Why yes.

[John Ratcliffe]

So we're sitting here in the lobby of the buildings known as Liberty Crossing of the Office of Director of National Intelligence. This organization was formed because of the disaster of the intelligence community that led that could have prevented the attack on 911 had there been an integration of intelligence, had the CIA been talking to the FBI and all of these different people who had different pieces of information but weren't talking to and sharing that information intelligence with each other, followed by the intelligence failure of the Iraq war that ultimately led to the creation of this organization. So we're sitting here in the lobby. This is the very first interview that's ever been done in this lobby and potentially in this building anywhere.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I'm honored.

[John Ratcliffe]

It's a special day and this is the 20th anniversary of the founding of this organization.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow. Yeah. Your role was created after 9 11. Yes. As a result of all that. Now you oversee 18 intelligence agencies. Can I just ask you as a practical matter, you come in, you had a background in intelligence when you were in the House. It's not like you'd never touched.

[John Ratcliffe]

I was on the Armed services in the Foreign Affairs Committee. So it was interesting as a member of Congress there for eight years on those subject matter committees. I was a customer of intelligence very frequently some of the highest levels of intelligence as well as kind of the broader intelligence briefings that we had. And so I at that time experienced a level of frustration that's common if you were to ask most members of Congress in that the briefings that we received then More often than not were things that we had already read about in the newspaper, seen on the news the night before, and just didn't get much value from it to better inform the decisions that we had to make related to our military or military operations or foreign policy decisions. And that was. You know, I left Congress in my last day, was January 3rd of 2021. And as I was going through the confirmation process for this job, and I was meeting with the different senators, it was interesting that they expressed that same frustration to me. And many of these senators were members of the Intelligence Committee, which really spoke to how much work there is to do still.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you show up here, you get confirmed. I mean, what's the first thing that happens as a practical matter? Do you say, like, let me see the JFK files. What do you do?

[John Ratcliffe]

I have a long list of things I'm working through, but honestly, the first thing that I did was actually send out an email to all the people who work here and said, I'll be down here in this lobby where we are right now. I think it was at 12 o'clock, and if you're free, I'd love to come and introduce myself and say hello. It was standing room only here. I was grateful to be able to have the opportunity to just immediately address those who work here, intelligence professionals, analysts, people who are subject matter experts in different areas, some of the support staff who are here and kind of keep the lights on. And they gave me a very warm welcome. And I laid out who I am, my background, and the mandate that the American people delivered by electing Donald Trump and why I'm here, the purpose that we all are here for, to serve the American people, to ensure their safety, security, and freedom, first and foremost. And let me just tell you this. I got a number of notes. I told them, let me know what you think is going right, let me know what you think needs fixing. You can find my email address, you can find my number. And I started to get notes from people, one of which came from a guy who has worked here since its founding. And it really, I'll never forget it because he said, not once has any other director ever come and done anything like this.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[John Ratcliffe]

And second, he said, I'm so happy that you're here and the changes that you seek to make. Now I can finally breathe.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow.

[John Ratcliffe]

So a simple gesture of coming and saying, this is who I am. I look forward to working with you to serve our country, to refocus the intelligence community back on its core mission, to get rid of the distractions, the weaponization and all of the other noise that has undermined the trust that the American people may have had long ago in the intelligence community. It just speaks to the vacuum of that leadership that unfortunately has existed for so long.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how do you, I have no doubt that the people in this building like you as a person, but you have to fight the deep state loathing of your boss. Right? I mean, there's no question there's a fair amount of loathing by Democrat, you know, lifers that work in these buildings for him.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that's why I think we see leaks, you know, whether it's at the Pentagon or from here. And you've had a couple and you've handled them very well and very firmly. But how do you battle that? I mean, it's like they have an agenda.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah, well, I'm sure there are people who work here and within the Intelligence Committee community who probably don't think or speak very kindly of me either, specifically because again, through the President's leadership and the mandate of the American people, I know exactly what I need to do here and how deep the rot is within the intelligence community that has to be rooted out. So, yes, bringing about transparency and accountability, shining a light in areas that haven't seen the light in a very long time, if ever. Really pushing for the declassification of documents that the President has listed in several of his executive orders and reminding people here, especially in the area of declassification, there's so much protection, we gotta hold onto all the secrets instead of really thinking about what is in the best public interest. And so obviously starting with the assassination, documents related to President John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. Is the starting point. But there are many other areas where we have to bring about transparency in order to achieve accountability and deliver that to the American people. Reminding people here every single day that the American taxpayers pay for this building.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, there are secrets.

[John Ratcliffe]

Exactly. They keep the lights on. They are the ones who are funding your paycheck, that's paying for your rent, your mortgage, your ability to feed your family. The American people are who we work for. So any other level of protectionism of like, well, we don't want this agency to be embarrassed by what we are going to expose in the truth to the American people. It's a wrong headed mindset and speaks to the huge culture shift, the mindset shift that has to take place here. And this is the bigger thing that we are tackling here and that the President is tackling and we're tacking across the entire federal government.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did we learn something new in the RFK and JFK documents in particular? I didn't follow it that closely, to be honest, but my takeaway was most people thought it didn't add that much. Am I wrong?

[John Ratcliffe]

I gotta say, I'm not someone who has studied these over the years, so I'm probably about where you are. There were new pieces of information.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you get a briefing from somebody who said, holy God, it really was the CIA?

[John Ratcliffe]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[John Ratcliffe]

And those who are experts on this, who've studied this for a long time, did not find what they were looking for. So, yes, there was new intelligence and information that was declassified that had not ever been seen by the public before. There were new revelations that came through. But in both of those cases, and in a few days, we're releasing another, I think 50 or 60,000 pages related to Senator Robert F. Kennedy's assassination because we had to go out and hunt and find those files stuck in other warehouses. But whether or not it delivers the quote, unquote, smoking gun, the important thing is that the transparency is there.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's even more reason to release it if it doesn't have anything? You know, it's like, you must have looked at some of this and said, why was this kept a secret for so long?

[John Ratcliffe]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

It just sends people spinning.

[John Ratcliffe]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

On the subject of documents that we'd like to see but haven't. Covid and its origins. Sure. You saw that just before we sat down tonight. The Chinese State Council Information office. I don't even wanna know what that is, but it sounds bad. They have determined that Covid came from us, that it's more likely than not that Covid originated in the United States and not in China. I'm wondering whether you have any dispute with that based on what you've seen over here. The intelligence community has been responsible for trying to figure out, in part, how this thing started.

[John Ratcliffe]

So I created kind of a special teams group, the Directors Initiative Group, that is focused on investigating a number of the President's top priorities and the things that the American people really deserve and want to know the truth about the origins of COVID 19 is one of them. So they're actively working on that. A lot of the work that's been done is on Covid.gov. have you had a chance to look.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, you changed. Trump changed it.

[John Ratcliffe]

It's quite a transformation of the website. For anybody watching, if you haven't seen it, check it out.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's the annoying website to which YouTube and all social media used to refer people with Fauci talking points and now it's been completely complet reversed.

[John Ratcliffe]

So a lot of what's been found is already there. But the thing that we are working with Jay Bhattacharya, the new NIH director on with as well as Secretary Kennedy is looking at the gain of function research that in the case of the Wuhan lab as well as many others, many of these other biolabs around the world was actually US funded and leads to this dangerous kind of research that in many examples has resulted in either a pandemic or some other major health crisis.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, let me ask you specifically. Cause we already know that EcoHealth alliance was partnering with this Wuhan lab to create to do gain of function research. That's right. We just have never been able to have somebody say and it was that exact experiment that led to this Covid bug. But have we gotten there? What's the new thing that you're digging in on?

[John Ratcliffe]

We are working on that with Jay Bhattacharya and look forward to being able to share that hopefully very soon. Okay, that specific link, correct, between the gain of function research and what we saw with COVID 19.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean that would be extraordinary because just so the audience knows if that's true, if it was Peter Daszak's research with the Wuhan so called fat lady that caused this pandemic, then we did fund it. Than Anthony Fauci helped fund the pandemic.

[John Ratcliffe]

That charge things that he denied over and over and over to Senator Rand Paul's questioning.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right. Under oath.

[John Ratcliffe]

Under oath. Exactly. So is it any wonder that he sought a preemptive pardon for anything during a certain period of time by President.

[Megyn Kelly]

Biden before he left office and then strong armed and smeared people like Dr. J. Bhattacharya, anybody who came out and said I don't know if that's natural, this actually smacks of lab.

[John Ratcliffe]

And the reason why this is so important is not just what happened in the past. It's because this gain of function research is happening in biolabs around the world. I got attacked. And I think you saw this we've probably talked about in your show before. When I warned against US funded bio labs in Ukraine when the Russia Ukraine war kicked off for this very reason, who knows what kinds of pathogens are in these labs and if released could create another Covid like pandemic. And for that I was called a Russian asset. You're trumpeting Putin's talking points. All of this nonsense simply for speaking the truth and stating facts that by the way are still on US Embassy Ukraine's website today about how the US has funded these biolabs in Ukraine. But in order to. My point is in order to prevent another Covid like pandemic or another major health incident that could affect us in the world, we have to end this gain of function research and provide the evidence that shows exactly why and how it's in our best interest, the American people's best interest to bring about an end to it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can I just ask you one other question on that? Why did the intelligence community, why were they so reluctant to just say that? You know, under Joe Biden it was split. The FBI eventually said, well, we kind of think it was a lab. And Department of Energy said lab. But then the other agencies were like, no, we think more natural origin, long past the point when it did not look like natural origin. They tested 80 or 90,000 animals. They never found this version of the virus. So what was going on with the intel community?

[John Ratcliffe]

You know, it's a good question and I don't have a specific answer to it, but I want to point to the contrast of how in some cases they are very unwilling to come to express a view or a certain opinion on something. And in other cases, even if they don't have decisive or conclusive evidence per se, they're very quickly to come to an assumption. This gets to the real heart of the challenge here and the problems that we've seen is the politicization of intelligence to meet a certain objective or to influence a certain policy. And that is what has been the problem. This goes all the way back to why this organization was founded. When you look at the so called intelligence that really was used to spur the Iraq regime change war and look at what that has cost our country in lives, in treasure. Look at what it's cost the world. Look at what Iraq is today now essentially a proxy of Iran when Iraq that would not have happened had that regime change war not occurred. That's right. So again, this is really what is at the heart of what needs to be addressed within the intelligence community and why leadership matters so much.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just as a reminder to our audience, you were a young 21 year old state assembly person in Hawaii and two years after that you signed up, you enlisted in the National Guard and went, you were deployed to Iraq. So you know firsthand about the blood and drink.

[John Ratcliffe]

And I served in a medical unit and it was with a unit out of Hawaii Infantry Brigade combat team. And my first task every single day was to go through a list of all of those who had been casualties a day before, those who were injured. I was the first one notified when there was someone who was killed in action. And ultimately to make sure that those who were injured either got the medical care they needed, that they were evacuated as quickly as possible, and then making sure that they were getting that care all the way until they got home or getting them back out into the field. But every day going through this list of names and thinking about those at home who I knew because I heard from my parents were worrying and terrified of their phone ringing and the most terrible outcome of their loved one, their husband or wife or son or daughter, brother or sister, being in a position where they have paid the ultimate price in service to our country. And this is such an important thing because too often, as you know very well, covering all of these issues for so long that you have politicians who debate whether do we go to war here or there, or do we go topple this government or that government. And too often it is so detached from the real consequences that come from those decisions. And we see the same reflected here at times, again, when we have people who are working within the intelligence community who perhaps in some cases have become too detached from the impact of their work on those who are making life and death decisions for our country and the potential to either go to war or to prevent war, as President Trump is trying to do on many fronts. And you have those who are co opted by the military industrial complex abusing their position to feed or manipulate intelligence, as we saw with the Iraq war to start a new war. This intelligence community, the work that gets done in places like this every single day has that power to be the fodder, the fuel, the seed that can lead to yet another unnecessary.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're overseeing the group that could cause it. Yes, Pete Hexeth's overseeing the group that would have to do it.

[John Ratcliffe]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And both of you are in very powerful positions in advising President Trump about the risks and rewards. There was a New York Times article within the past month saying you, he, he, J.D. vance and his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, were all together in urging him to not go too far on our actions against Iran, that we should not give Netanyahu what he wanted by either participating in or boldly and robustly supporting Israel bombing Iran, that that's a proxy for us and there's no way we wouldn't be heavily involved. And that is not position the United States wants to be in. And President Trump did Not do it. He did not give Netanyahu the answer he wanted. I know you're not going to get into the specifics of what you advise the president, but can you explain your view of the dangers of barreling toward a potential conflict with Iran?

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah. The New York Times article was a result of an unfortunate, unauthorized and illegal leak of a very private conversation between the president and his advisors. I won't get into the details, but it was a very robust discussion that really speaks to President Trump's care and thoughtfulness as he makes his decisions around these very serious issues of war and peace. You know, ultimately, what we are doing is providing the president with the facts, the intelligence. Here is what the intelligence is telling us as the Secretary of Defense. Here are the options that are on the table and the likely outcomes that could occur if you go with course of action A, B, or C. And ultimately, it's the president who makes the decision. And he has made it clear time and time again that his goal with Iran, first of all, they cannot be in a position where they can develop or have a nuclear weapon. And that he believes and is confident in the opportunity that this moment provides to be able to achieve that outcome through peaceful means, through diplomacy, and through negotiations. And he knows that that's what's in the best interest for the American people and for the world.

[Megyn Kelly]

On the Iran front, here's the argument that the more neo kind crew makes. All right, this is from Mark Dubowitz of Defense of Democracies, one of these think tanks in Washington that wants a hard line toward them. He recently tweeted, quote, the Islamic Republic is weaker than ever, hated by most Iranians, hammered by the IDF and Mossad. Its terror armies, meaning Hamas, the Houthis, and Hezbollah. Air defense missile production capability are in ruins. Never a better time to dismantle its nuke program and finish off the regime. Will another president blink? How is he wrong?

[John Ratcliffe]

First of all, the military option is always on the table. The President often talks about peace through strength. And he means what he says when he talks about his objective, which is also Prime Minister Netanyahu's objective. And I think many countries in the world would agree that Iran cannot be in a position to have a nuclear weapon or to develop a nuclear weapon that is unequivocal. How we get there is really the question. The president is of the mind, as he has been consistently through his first term in office, as he is now, if there is a way to achieve what is in our best national security interests through peaceful means, through negotiations, not Blind trust, like, okay, we're just going to believe whatever they say. Not at all. Any deal that is potentially made with Iran will have to come with a very, very rigorous set of verification. Means nothing like the failure that was the JCPOA that President Obama negotiated. The deal that President Trump, through his very talented and exceptional ambassador in Steve Witkoff is negotiating is a deal that will best serve the security interests of the American people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you feel the push, Tulsi, the push of this, like, strong neocon strain that's still within the Republican Party and probably in these agencies that's much more hawkish on an issue including war in the Middle east, which we've just done for 20 years?

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah, of course the pressure's there. The debate is happening in the public, which I think is a good thing. It's a positive thing that we're hearing from different elements. Yes. Even within the Republican Party, even if they're leaking.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, because we're hearing from them that way.

[John Ratcliffe]

Well, the leaks should not. The leaks have to end. If the President can't have the confidence that he can sit in a room with his closest advisors without it leaking to the public, then that is something that really undermines his being best served with the best possible information, with debate, robust debate around the table, which you look at the team of people he's assembled. He likes that debate because he sees the value in hearing different perspectives so that he can make that best informed decision. But when we look at this debate that's happening kind of in the, in the public town square, whether it be digital or TV or whatever the platform is there, I think it's important for the American people to see the contrast and the difference between the neocons who are very ready to rush into war without allowing what President Kennedy spoke about in his historic speech at American University, which was to choose peace, to do the hard work of diplomacy, to recognize the true cost and the serious cost of war, and that it requires strong leadership to do the hard work of diplomacy in order to achieve peace, however and wherever possible. And, and that it's not something that you just go, okay, good, we got peace, and then you walk away. No, it requires consistent engagement and that strong leadership that once again strikes that balance and recognizes that we cannot be prosperous unless we are at peace as a nation and ensuring our nation's security. We have the strongest and most capable military in the world. And I can say as someone who still serves in the Army Reserve and has now for 22 years, you're too busy for that. A little bit. But those who I've had the privilege of serving alongside, I had the chance to go and do some PT with Pete Hegseth and some Marines the other day.

[Megyn Kelly]

You still got it. Are you still there?

[John Ratcliffe]

You know, I'm giving the kids a run for their money, and I'm good with that.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's amazing.

[John Ratcliffe]

But it's recognizing again, yes, we have the capability to defend our safety, security and freedom anywhere, anytime. But it takes a strong leader and a strong president to choose peace and diplomacy. Recognizing that war and the use of our military because of the sacrifices of these young men and women from all across the country, that is required when you go to war. President Trump takes that very seriously.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, I appreciate, as a mother of an 11, 14 and 15 year old, I appreciate that. I do not want somebody with their foot on the gas pedal recklessly pushing us into yet another war. And I think I speak for most people in the country on that. The leaks, we touched on it. It must be very disconcerting to be in a private meeting with the President with only top, top people and then a day later see it on the pages of the New York Times. Clearly, I assume you trust your fellow cabinet members and so on implicitly, but everyone has to speak to a staff about what happened and what needs to happen. And I wonder how rattling that is, because you're in the same position in a way that Pete Hegseth is in, where people underneath you appear to be leaking even top secret information that you could go to jail for leaking. But they clearly have such an agenda. It's worth it to them.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how has that affected you? And you're dealing with it with a firm hand, but how has it affected you when this happens?

[John Ratcliffe]

You know, you mentioned that example of that New York Times article. There were a number of things in that article that were completely inaccurate, which speaks to again. And there is an investigation that's underway to try to figure out the source of this leak or sources of this leak around that specific incident. But the effect is, I mean, it makes things much harder in constantly questioning and looking over your shoulder. Okay, who's in the room? I have to be careful about everything that I say because ultimately we're in a situation where these things being leaked either by people who are just trying to show a reporter that they're important or chasing clout of some sort, or the most dangerous of which is those who are trying to ultimately undermine the president's policies. And this is not just like, okay, we don't like Trump or someone who has a problem with President Trump and his policies. Really what is happening when they do that is they're undermining our democracy. Because what they're doing in whatever tactic they use is saying, well, I'm doing what's best for the country, and I know what's better for the country than the majority, the vast majority of the American people who chose this duly elected president, Donald Trump. And that's where you can agree or disagree with his policies. But when people cross that line who are in these positions of power and influence, they are actually undermining our democracy and our security in doing so.

[Megyn Kelly]

You've referred three people now to DOJ for criminal prosecution. Do you think they will be prosecuted?

[John Ratcliffe]

That's the goal. That's the goal. And the other way we think about accountability is by doing the work of conducting these investigations. The Department of Justice and the FBI obviously have different tools that they can use in order to find the truth and to seek out that evidence so that we can actually prosecute these.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do the people know they've been referred? Like, do they still work?

[John Ratcliffe]

In some cases they know. In other cases, they are likely not aware. We have another 11 cases that we are still conducting our own internal investigations around. Some will be sent to the Department of Justice for further investigation and prosecution for criminal charges because it is a crime, it's a federal crime. And others, depending on the situation, will be dealt with internally, where people will be fired and have their security clearance revoked.

[Megyn Kelly]

One of the leaks was it spoke to what Trump is trying to do with the deportations, not the securing of the southern border, but the deportations. And he has declared under the Alien Enemies act, an invasion or incursion, in part saying that the Venezuelan government has dispatched Trenda Aragua, this gang, to come into the United States and commit mayhem. And one of the things that was leaked from someone in the intel community was that didn't happen. There is no official link between the Venezuelan government and Trenda Aragua. Therefore, it's not an incursion, it's not an invasion. It's very clear why somebody would leak that, try to undermine the President's use of the Alien Enemies Act. Is that one of the leaks being investigated?

[John Ratcliffe]

It is being investigated. There's a few things to add to that, to kind of color out the picture. One of the most often tactics that these leakers use is they will take, let's say it's a six page top secret classified document, and they will pull a line from page one and a line from Page two and a line from page three that when put together, supports the narrative that they are trying to push, but is not at all reflective of the kind of conclusive analysis in that report. And that's exactly what happened in this case. So they very selectively and intentionally left out was really the most important thing, which was that the FBI very clearly is the intelligence element that is responsible for domestic security. So it shouldn't be a surprise then that they are the element that said, yes, the Maduro Venezuelan government is supporting Trende Aragua and their criminal activities here, enabled by President Biden's four years of open borders where they very freely came in and out of our country and we're able to begin to control territory here in the United States. The CIA doesn't collect intelligence here in the United States because that is not within their writ or their authorities. So again, this is why we look at the ways that intelligence leaks are politicized, is by the selective picking and choosing and very clearly leaving out the thing that actually supports what the President is doing here.

[Megyn Kelly]

In listening to you, I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of a judge trying to overrule, effectively you and President Trump on whether it's been an incursion, on whether the intel supports this link without having any access to any of these materials. I mean, when you see the courts really trying to get involved in this and seeming to be on a road towards saying we are allowed to declare whether there is an incursion or they're not, how what's your reaction?

[John Ratcliffe]

I mean, it's such a dangerous thing. And again, it's preposterous in my view, that these judges, the judicial branch obviously plays an important role in our three co equal branches of government, but they should understand what their role is. And these activist judges who now somehow believe that they're in the position of making policy by undermining the President's legal authorities and orders bestowed upon him by the American people. He did the hard work and put his name on the ballot and ran for office. If these judges want to run for office and be president, go ahead and do that. Go make your policies, go state your views and your opinions. But they are politicizing the bench and showing how through their activism, they are undermining really frankly, their own credibility in doing this. And again, another thing that undermines the American people's faith and trust, that these institutions, that the judicial branch in some of these cases is actually doing their job.

[Megyn Kelly]

You do a presidential daily brief every day. You don't do A judicial daily brief every day. You don't sit with Judge Boasberg or the U.S. supreme Court and tell them all the things that he hears. No, that's what's so absurd about it.

[John Ratcliffe]

That's crazy. One more thing I'll add on that, because you mentioned of leakers within the intelligence community. Unfortunately, we have them and they have been there for far too long, and we are trying to root them out. But there's also another source of leaks coming from Congress where certain staffers and members of Congress have access to this very same intelligence. And as you can imagine, some may find it in their interest to selectively leak intelligence once again to support the talking points that they are delivering that are undermining the president's actions to root out these cartels and these gangs to keep the American people safe. When we just take a step back and look at the arguments that many of these Democrats in Congress are making and how hard they are fighting and these judges, it makes zero sense in really. President Trump's mission is very clear. We are trying to make our country safe. We're getting rid of the most dangerous of gangs and criminals and cartels. How is this not the most bipartisan issue?

[Megyn Kelly]

They say they need due process. They need more due process.

[John Ratcliffe]

Right. But not when they illegally came across the border.

[Megyn Kelly]

We didn't get any. You guys have been helping with that. I want to ask you about this. This is the National Counterterrorism Center's border security.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Has actually helped President Trump quite a bit in nabbing a bunch of these gang members. From what I can see, leads on approximately, what, 750 individuals in the U.S. who have ties to some of these gangs, like Trenda, Aragua, Ms. 13, and also the Sinaloa cartel. Can we spend some time. Let's first speak about that, and then let's spend some time on the cartels, which I saw you recently listed as your number one security concern. Above Iran, above China, above Russia, the cartel. So let's do it in that order.

[John Ratcliffe]

Sure.

[Megyn Kelly]

The winds at the border and how you guys are helping.

[John Ratcliffe]

So as we started the conversation, we talked about why this organization exists. The ODNI exists to be that integrating element, pulling together information, in this case from the dea, who's been focused on these cartels for a very long time because of their Counternarcotics trademark, the intelligence that the FBI has collected, as they're looking at the criminal activities that these cartels are conducting right here in communities all across the country. You look at the databases that we already have. In place and have had in place for a very long time in being able to keep track of known and suspected Islamist terrorists from different parts of the world who may be trying to.

[Megyn Kelly]

Come into our country or did come in under Biden.

[John Ratcliffe]

Well, that's exactly the point. And so this is kind of the nucleus for all of the intelligence and information that's being collected about all these different individuals. And it allows us our National Counterterrorism center, great people who work there, they deliver almost every day on keeping the American people safe. In some of the examples that you mentioned, of providing information on these over 750 individuals who we know are members of these three major cartels, just yesterday, identifying almost 600 people who are known or suspected terrorists who illegally came into our country, who applied for asylum under Joe Biden's administration and who were then released out into our country. And so being able to get their names and work with the FBI, work with Department of Homeland Security for the cartels, working with the DEA so that we can find them and either prosecute them or immediately deport them and get them out of our country and to stop, stop them from entering into our country in the first place, either by legal or illegal means, before we get.

[Megyn Kelly]

To the cartels, what's your level of confidence? You can't speak for dhs, but within the intel community, the ones that you guys are identifying, what's your level of confidence that they actually are gang members or cartel members? Because some of the public have been led to believe it's very willy nilly you're picking up random hairdressers and deporting them. How high is the bar? Before you communicate to the Tom Homans of the world, it's this one and that one and the other one.

[John Ratcliffe]

When it's. By the time it comes to us here at our National Counterterrorism center, extensive work has already been done by the dea, by the FBI, in order for their names to even be entered into our system. So my level of confidence is high because it's high. It's high because of the work that I know that these DEA agents are doing that these FBI agents are doing. My office as the Director of National intelligence, we have 12 regional representatives all across the country. And I've been spending time getting out to them and having conversations not only with them, and it's usually the FBI special agent in charge of that FBI office, but we have people from every element of the intelligence community, every element of Department of Homeland Security, dea, all of the domestic law enforcement agencies, and they are working together as a team, sharing that information, working together on these cases to be able to identify who these people are and ultimately to track them down and deport them or arrest and prosecute them.

[Megyn Kelly]

On the subject of the cartels, yes, fentanyl remains the number one killer of Americans. I think it's 18 to 44 now. I mean, it's not just the super young. It's like those are the main years of your life. That's when you're totally thriving. You're making a family number one killer. And we just did a long special on this the other day because yesterday was National Fentanyl Awareness Day and we were talking with these documentary makers about how they'll flood the border on one side so that the border agents will go over here and then they'll send the fentanyl over on screen. Right. Where nobody's covering it because that's their main goal is to get the fentanyl into a country that's desperate for it, where we have some. We're 4.5% of the world and we're 40% of the fentanyl consumers. So it's crazy. Sounds good. Taking on the cartels, evil, very dangerous. Also sounds like a nightmare of a never ending war that could turn into some sort of homegrown terrorism problem here in the United States. So how do you calculate the risks here?

[John Ratcliffe]

Well, first of all, I mean, it's already happening. These cartels are already finding their emplacements here, having their own version of a headquarters in different cities and towns across the country. The capabilities of these cartels, we are not underestimating at all. It is quite an eye opening thing when we look at how their operations are running and their capabilities. And I won't go into detail here, but it really speaks to why President Trump recognized this as this greatest domestic threat. Which goes back to the annual threat assessment and where I detailed this and why. And also how the Department of Defense is now working with Department of Homeland Security really to secure our border and will play an integral role in going after and defeating these cartels working very closely with Mexico and their government and their officials.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you speak to. It's not just coming from the southern border right now. They're going around. They're using the northern border. That's right. They're shipping things in from the west coast, the east coast. I mean, we like to think of ourselves as isolated, but we're really not that isolated from these cartels.

[John Ratcliffe]

That's right. And that's where taking this very expansive approach all at once is so essential. No one is naive at all in thinking that this is just gonna be like, oh, we'll conduct a few operations and then just knock this all out. But also thinking through very carefully kind of the lessons learned from the last war on drugs that ultimately ended up just being a prolonged war that we never really saw much progress on.

[Megyn Kelly]

Number two on the list was China. Number three was Russia, if memory serves. Number four was Iran. Let's skip to Russia for a second. With longer daylight hours, you might be spending more time away from home, giving burglars more opportunities to strike. That's a good news bad news situation. FBI crime data shows that break ins are more likely during daylight hours than at night. Protect your home with Simplisafe's proactive security designed to stop threats before they happen. Millions of Americans trust Simplisafe for the new standard in home security and enjoy greater peace of mind every time they arm their system. Whether heading out in the morning or locking up at night, traditional security systems only react after a break in occurs, which is too late. SimpliSafe's Active Guard Outdoor protection helps prevent break ins before they happen. AI powered cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents watch your property and detect suspicious activity. SimpleLife offers a 60 day satisfaction guarantee or your money back with no long term contracts or cancellation fees. Visit SimpliSafe.com Megan to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's Simplisafe. S I M p l I safe.com Megan there's no safe like SimpliSafe. One in two adults have high blood pressure. Many don't even know it. That could be a ticking time bomb. But here's the good news. You have the power to take control naturally with 120 Life. 120 Life is a blend of great tasting super fruit juices that can actually help lower your blood pressure naturally. 120Life is formulated with ingredients that have been shown to support healthy blood pressure levels. It's trusted by hundreds of health professionals and people have seen real measurable results. You can try it yourself risk free with their 2 week trial. Just go to 120life.com and use the code MK to save 15% and get free shipping. You can track your progress with a simple blood pressure monitor, watch your numbers drop and feel the difference. They're so sure that 120Life can noticeably lower your blood pressure in two weeks that they will give you your money back if you're not satisfied. So you have nothing to lose but those high blood pressure numbers. Go to 120life.com that's120life.com and remember to use code MK to save 15%.

[Sean Spicer]

The media is broken. For decades, big cable and legacy media filtered information to hide the truth. But thanks to podcasts like the one that you're listening to and new media around this country, the truth can break through, providing voices and views that legacy outlets we know well will not air. But big cable still has a major way of controlling information access. They do this by limiting access to something called spectrum, the invisible airwaves that power affordable wireless Internet. And by forcing you to keep their bundles, the old cable package bundle, keeping independent media out of reach. Trump and Republicans in Congress have a huge chance right now to get this right by making more spectrum available and breaking the big cable's stranglehold on your information. Tell your senator or representative to work with President Trump and sell more spectrum so everybody can keep listening to shows like this, the Megyn Kelly show. Go to inthecableopoly.org to learn more.

[E]

Hi, everyone. This is former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. We all know that Americans are still recovering from the record inflation of the past four years. Now, some in Congress want to make cuts to Medicaid, a program that provides critical health care to 72 million struggling Americans, including veterans, people with disabilities, kids, and your friends and neighbors. 40% of American births are actually covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid covers health care costs for a third of children with cancer. Working families rely on this program. It has 77% support. Nearly 9 in 10Americans oppose Medicaid cuts. Donald Trump campaigned on a promise to protect Medicaid. As president, he's still promising to love and cherish Medicaid. Did you know that 12 million Medicaid families live in rural communities? Many of these people voted for Donald Trump and they didn't vote for this. If Congress cuts Medicaid, a lot of rural hospitals could close and a lot of rural families will be hurt. No matter how you look at it, cutting Medicaid just doesn't make sense. Stand with President Trump and tell Congress not to cut Medicaid.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

[Sean Spicer]

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free offer details apply.

[Megyn Kelly]

Big news today as President Trump announces that he he has struck this deal with the Ukrainians for a minerals deal where we're going to have access to some of their rare earth materials. And it's not necessarily a repayment for all of the aid that we've given them, but it gives us a reason to be involved in Ukraine, to look out for Ukraine. And President Trump thinks it'll be a deterrent to Putin in starting things back up again if he's able to put this to bed. The critics say these are former Biden people. There's nothing to be gained in Ukraine. They don't have the rare minerals that we need. That's why we're all buying the stuff from China to begin with. So we've bought a pig and a poke. What do you say?

[John Ratcliffe]

I don't know why they can't find a single thing that they can agree with the president on. Not a single thing. You know, this deal was very important to the president to get done and today was a big day. A lot of work went into getting this deal signed today because he values the fact that as he talked about earlier in the Cabinet meeting today about how the American taxpayer has provided overall, when you look at all of the aid that's been given to Ukraine since the Russia Ukraine war started, $350 billion. And when you look at some of the deals that some of the other European countries made with the aid they provided with Ukraine, a either they used frozen Russian money so they weren't using their taxpayer dollars. They found a way to give them frozen money from Russian funds. And in other areas, they said, okay, we'll loan you this money and we'll figure out a payback plan for the future, but not us, not the Biden administration. This money was just given and that's it. So, so President Trump understood that, was very, very, very bothered by it, that the American people are just out of pocket on this without any means of any kind of repayment whatsoever. And so this minerals deal is a way for the American people to get some form of not return, but some kind of a repayment based on the taxpayer dollars that have been expended and used to pay for someone else's government to be run, to pay for someone else's infrastructure, even outside of all of the weapons system, while we still have communities here who have failing infrastructure, who have poisonous water, who have people still in western North Carolina who are homeless and don't have the basic needs that they have. And so this deal, yes, of course he wouldn't have made the deal if they don't have these rare earth and minerals that still need to be mined. But of course we checked. He's not going to go and make a blind deal based on just a handshake. And so this is a win for the American people and it's a win for the Ukrainian people, because this joint partnership is something that is mutually beneficial for the people of both of our countries.

[Megyn Kelly]

Think about the things we could have used some of that money for. With all due respect to the Ukrainians, I mean, we're talking about the southern border, how porous it is. More agents maybe at the northern border, more agents maybe to inspect some of the cargo that gets shipped in, maybe some treatment programs for people who get addicted to this poison and will be dead if you play the odds, within 18 months, maybe more immigration judges so we can give all that due process the Democrats want us to give before. You know, like there's so many other ways we could have spent that money.

[John Ratcliffe]

So. So I want to go back on. You remember the tragic wildfire that hit my home community of Lahaina. I didn't live there, but it was within my district when I was in Congress. And how many lives were lost and an entire town just razed to the ground? And when I went there just a couple of days after that fire happened and went out and talked to the people there on West Maui, and the fact that so many of them not connected to each other, completely different conversations, different households, different locations, said, gosh, if only we were Ukraine, maybe somebody would pay attention to us. And that just speaks to what we're talking about here. And so this is this community of Lahaina now, who is only now, by the way, just starting to rebuild homes in communities and places where they have lived for generations. We talk about western North Carolina and the very, very, very slow rebuild process that's going on there, that people who lost their homes are still paying property taxes and mortgages for the land and the home that they have that they are not able to live on in any way at all.

[Megyn Kelly]

You look at, I don't think I'd do it. I don't think I'd be doing it.

[John Ratcliffe]

That's the thing. Those are two of many examples. You have a level of poverty in West Virginia that I think many Americans would not see if. But going to a third world country on the other side of the planet, the needs that we have here are very real. And part of the dissatisfaction that the American people have had for so long in our government is that the government, by and large, FEMA is a great example. You take all of this money, so much of this money, and it feeds into this bureaucracy. And you have all these officials going to places like western North Carolina. I went there. And you hear the angst in people's voices when they say, no, FEMA hasn't been here and they're hoarding supplies here or there. They're saying, hey, here you go, here's 500 bucks. Like, what a fricking insult that is. And then they see what's going on with, oh, we sent another 50 billion to Ukraine today. And the next, oh, we sent another hundred billion. And how people are celebrating that, that when they're not even looking at what's happening in our own backyard. And this is what I saw and experienced when I was helping President Trump during his election campaign was that there was a spark of hope in people's hearts when they saw that he was addressing the very things that they were most concerned about. Their health and well being. Securing our borders, not allowing boys to play in girls sports or allowing them into girls bathrooms. Things that are common sense and address the everyday needs of the American people. Our security, him being the president of peace and trying to prevent war. This is a shift. This is the beginning of a shift to what we are all seeking to bring about, which is in this 250th anniversary of the founding of our country. How about, let's have a government that actually serves the people, a government that is of, by and for the people.

[Megyn Kelly]

We were talking about Russia, briefly. You and I have talked before about how Hillary Clinton labeled you a puppet of Putin, a Russian asset. Debbie Wasserman Schultz shamefully said the same. And I saw recently President Trump withdrew Hillary Clinton's security clearance, which you had to do.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

That must have been a little fun, right?

[John Ratcliffe]

Just a little fun. I smiled. Of course you did.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're only human.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah, I am.

[Megyn Kelly]

So, yeah, that's over for her and.

[John Ratcliffe]

A number of Other people, by the way, when you look at the 51, Mark Zaid.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love her.

[John Ratcliffe]

Intelligence officials who signed that Hunter Biden disinformation letter and never apologized for it, never held themselves accountable for it. Yes. Mark Zaid, you had Letitia James.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why did she even have one?

[John Ratcliffe]

Well, some of them didn't have clearances, but they had access to classified information, and so we took away that access for those.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[John Ratcliffe]

Alvid Bragg didn't have clearances. Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[John Ratcliffe]

And there are more to come. And this is part of what we're doing in our investigative work as we go back and look, for example, at Crossfire Hurricane, and how there were assistant US Attorneys who were knowingly using manufactured testimony that they would interview a witness, for example, and know that the witness was lying to them, either because they set up the lie, or they knew that the witness was lying, took that lie and used it as evidence to get a warrant under FISA to go and surveil on Americans, which is completely illegal. And so these are the kinds of things, those types of people, those assistant US Attorneys or those FBI agents that were involved in this kind of stuff, these are crimes that need to be prosecuted, and these people need to be held accountable.

[Megyn Kelly]

Will that happen?

[John Ratcliffe]

That will happen.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I mean, it's called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

[John Ratcliffe]

That's right.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's what it's supposed to be.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah. It's a good reminder.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. On the subject of saving money, you're doing some of that right here.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

And in part, it relates to enacting President Trump's DEI directives and pulling back on some of the nonsense that I know you and all the other agencies were spending money on. Not you, you, but the intel community. Can you speak to a little bit of, like, what you found? Because you're doing your own Doge, you're doing Digg.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

So that's under you. You didn't out. This is not one of the areas that Elon and Doge came into. You did it on your own. And I understand why. There's a lot of.

[John Ratcliffe]

They are helping us. They have incredible tools and a lot of lessons learned through the work that they've done. And so they are helping us and allowing us the opportunity to be able to apply those here. So we're not trying to reinvent the machine at all, and we're able to get after the things we're looking for.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how much is going out the door on DEI programs and hires and so on?

[John Ratcliffe]

So there was a DEI office that was immediately shut down and that alone was a savings of around $20 million. But the thing that we just announced today, in fact, was the closure of this Office of Human Capital. Completely different part of the organization, and one that sounds like, okay, well, maybe this is like talent management. You're trying to go out and see, well, where is the best talent and where are the gaps we need to fill, which is what I thought. But it turns out that it was an office where the previous administration kind of hid a bunch of their DEI people, knowing that this action was going to be taken by President Trump, and there was a slush fund there that they would use to fund people millions of dollars to go to DEI conferences and talk to other DEI people. And so we shut that down at a savings of $150 million today. But the thing that I think a lot of people would be surprised by, when people talk about DEI and you hear, you know, whether it's cnn, msnbc, they talk about DEI and they criticize the President for his action and the actions that we are all taking to get rid of this claiming that we're against diversity and all of this other crap. When I came in here, I was able to talk with some of the people who work here. DEI was such a priority that it was baked into the incentive structure for people to advance professionally here. And I would imagine it was very similar across the federal government, where some employees told me that they were put in a position where they had to spend half of their time working on DEI initiatives in order for them to be able to put it on their annual evaluation and therefore be noted as, oh, you are more likely to get promoted if you are spending this significant amount of time on this diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. And for me, I'm like, how in the world would you spend half of your time on that?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[John Ratcliffe]

What were you creating like? And I don't really know the answer to that, but I do know the answer to our national security on that question, because what that means is in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and we have people here who work from all across of these 18 intelligence elements being put in a position where they're told, if you want to get promoted, if you want to advance in your career, the priority is not, are you delivering the best quality intelligence assessments and analysis to best inform the President's most critical decisions? No, you will advance professionally if you show that you're dedicating half of your day towards these DEI initiatives.

[Megyn Kelly]

Your implicit bias.

[John Ratcliffe]

Exactly. Exactly. And so when we look at why this was a priority for the President, this is not some superficial thing. There are national security implications to what the Biden administration was doing in centering almost their entire administration around DEI initiatives. You can take this towards any domestic agency. Look at the Department of Education. Shouldn't they be focused on educating our kids?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, wasn't there a group, which intel agency was it that had the people talking about transgender surgeries and non binary this?

[John Ratcliffe]

And it's the National Security Agency.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. There's sex groups, polyamory.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, on and on.

[John Ratcliffe]

All this is a great example. So there was someone who snuck into that chat that was not a part of that, was not an employee there, and they screenshotted what they saw and leaked it out on X. And again, this is a chat group that was created and administered by the nsa, one of the premier intelligence collection entities that we have. And it was obscene. It was obscene, yes. It was about all of those things. It was talking about sex toys and sex, sex tricks for people who had gone through, you know, some kind of transgender surgery or during the workday. This is. This is during the workday on an intelligence hosted work chat group. And the supervisors, obviously, as soon as I found out about it, I said, anybody who's involved with this is getting fired and getting their security clearance revoked. Which, which there were some movies like, oh, gosh, aren't you. Like, that seems extreme. Like, no, imagine you're in any office and you're having these kinds of sexually explicit conversations in the workplace. I don't care what your sexual orientation or whatever your private choices are. This cannot be happening in the workplace, and it must not be happening in our premier intelligence agency that has people who have the highest clearances that anyone can hold. The plot thickens as many of the leaders feigned shock and surprise at this revelation. Well, this chat group had existed for over two years that this kind of stuff was happening in. And again, this is where transparency and accountability matter so much. As soon as I made that announcement that we will be investigating and holding these people accountable, I started hearing from people who were within the workforce saying, I work at the nsa. I filed a written report with evidence of what was going on in these chat groups a year ago, two years ago, when this thing first kicked up, and basically because of President Biden's DEI initiatives, they were essentially told, shut up. It's none of your business.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[John Ratcliffe]

And then there was the COVID up, and then there was the leak. So this is one example of many how we can see what the ramifications have been when we have, in the last administration, one that is seemingly focused on everything but the most important things.

[Megyn Kelly]

Speaking of the last administration, one question for you on Signalgate. As I heard you say this recently, is this the first administration to use signal for confidential chats?

[John Ratcliffe]

Absolutely not.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, you actually saw something that told you this was in fact being used by the Biden administration, who are out there all over X and other social media, ripping everyone who was on that signal gate thread to shreds.

[John Ratcliffe]

That is correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

So there's no question in your mind this was used during the Biden administration.

[John Ratcliffe]

By officials I know for certain that it was to include national security officials.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is there another way to communicate? Like, are we stuck with signals?

[John Ratcliffe]

So, so the main, the main means of communication for all of us like this in this building, this entire building is a secure facility. That means that if you go outside of this lobby, there's a bunch of lockboxes over there where you gotta lock your phone in, you gotta lock your Apple watch or your Oura ring, anything, even your aura ring. Wow. Anything that transmits a signal gets locked up by everyone who works here and everyone who visits here. Before you leave this lobby, how are.

[Megyn Kelly]

You supposed to count your steps?

[John Ratcliffe]

Good luck. Take the stairs the old fashioned way. Exactly. So the vast majority of the communication that happens is through secure telephones and secure computers and things that are built in to our work environments. However, I do have to leave the building at times and things have to keep moving and rolling. Same goes for those who work in the White House and those who work across the administration. So at times, for practical purposes, you have to be able to communicate on the go. Signal has been recognized by the federal government during the Biden administration, by the way, in December of 2024, as the preferred messaging app because it provides that end to end encryption that makes it, you know, nothing is completely secure, but it is the most secure option if you need to use it.

[Megyn Kelly]

You feel like it was unfair to Pete and Mike Walls. I mean, they took the brunt of it.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it shouldn't have happened. There are sensitive conversations that, that occur in these signal chats, but ultimately it was not at all what those who are opposing the President's policies and those in the media made it out to be. And I can tell you that there are some of the most vocal critics of that whole situation who also use signal and communicate things that they would not want released publicly as well.

[Megyn Kelly]

Not surprised.

[John Ratcliffe]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

As I've listened to you over this hour, I've had one thought recur to me over and over and over. And it is first female president. That is what I like. I look at you and I see it and I know they put you through the meat grinder the last time, but that was the other side. Now you've crossed over. And so I just wonder.

[John Ratcliffe]

Thank you for not saying transition. People use that word. It's like, okay, that's one of those words that's like for a certain thing. It's.

[Megyn Kelly]

No. But notwithstanding how rough that was when you ran for president the first time, have you ruled out ever doing it again? Could we potentially see a Tulsi 2028 try?

[John Ratcliffe]

I will never rule out any opportunity to serve my country. I would not have. If we had talked a year ago, the thought would not have crossed my mind that I would be here and that we would be having this conversation. My decisions in my life have always been made around how can I best be of service to God, how can I best be of service to our country? And that is what has led me here. I'm grateful for this opportunity and I will continue to chase those opportunities where I can make the most positive impact and be of service.

[Megyn Kelly]

And now you and I sit here having done something the two of US back in 2016 never would have thought we would have done, which was stood up on a stage and endorsed Donald Trump. Yeah. Now you're working for him. I endorsed him too.

[John Ratcliffe]

Yeah. It was so great. I was there. I remember it was such a powerful. It was such a powerful moment and speech that you delivered because of your history with him.

[Megyn Kelly]

You were very generous to even mention that what you did for President Trump was huge. And seeing you up there and announcing like your partisan change you were with Trump, it was this. That was like the team of rivals or the Marvel universe coming together.

[John Ratcliffe]

The Avengers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, the Avengers.

[John Ratcliffe]

You're one of them.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're one of the most. And the gray streak is part of it. And that just works. But I wonder if you do decide to do something in the future, running for president or individual executive leadership, what have you learned from him? What would you want to take away from the kind of leader Trump is?

[John Ratcliffe]

He's a very bold leader. And as we see, he's making decisions without care for what the media chirps about him or what his so called critics may say about him. And he's quite masterful at it, by the way. He's been so effective at connecting with the American people in ways that I think a lot of the politicians or the so called political pundits here in Washington, D.C. never really understood and maybe a lot of them still don't. But it really comes from a place of care, his care for the American people. He doesn't need to do this. He didn't need to put himself through all this. He didn't need to put himself in a position where there were two assassination attempts on his life. And the kind of bold change that we're seeing happening now across the government, it's never happened like this under any other president. So I really respect his boldness and his courage in doing things that sometimes people don't understand or see how it's going to turn out.

[Megyn Kelly]

Those are things we see in you, too, boldness, courage. And you share something else with him which is fearlessly independent. That's what's going to take you forward. Thank you so much. It's wonderful.

[John Ratcliffe]

So good to see you. Thank you very much.

[Megyn Kelly]

Good luck with everything.

[John Ratcliffe]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Gosh, I mean, all of you are.

[John Ratcliffe]

Going to this environment. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

My money's on you.

[John Ratcliffe]

I appreciate that. Thank you. Megan. It's a love.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No bs, no agenda and no fear. You've likely heard me talk about fysi. Well, if you're a business owner and paying too much in taxes, listen up. FYSI's tax planning and asset accrual strategies have helped thousands of businesses legally reduce tax tax burdens, build valuable assets and create tax free income. This is what separates billion dollar companies from small businesses. And FYSI can help you protect and grow your wealth. Don't leave money on the table. FYSI can help. And right now they're offering a free $5,000 risk assessment with my promo code meganysi.com Megan or call 800-877-4000. That's promo code Megan. To schedule your assessment for free, visit fysi.com Megan or call800-877-4000.

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