John Wiz Buckley (7:15)

Well we're obviously still looking at all the information that's coming in but apparently this was sort of good visual conditions. Airplanes could see each other in a area like Washington national. You have military operations due to the Pentagon and things like that. And you have the airport right there. So it's not unusual in these kind of conditions for the air traffic controllers to allow the airplanes to look at each other and self separate. In this case the controller had given the clearance to the helicopter to avoid the traffic to basically had them in sight. And apparently for whatever reason the helicopter pilots got distracted or something happened and they didn't see the airplane and collided.

Megyn Kelly (8:09)

I mean didn't see the airplane, I guess we have to rule that in as a possibility whiz because you can hear the controller saying, forgive me for not having the exact quote, but can you see the plane? And the answer was yes. And then the collision happened seconds thereafter. What's something like seven to 10 seconds thereafter? So we don't know, you know, the instruction, the question is a little vague. You know, which plane Must have been obvious to the air traffic controller, but we don't know that it was obvious to the helicopter pilot.

Cash Patel (8:39)

Megan, you nailed it. First of all, good afternoon. And you're right, very, very somber day. Just absolutely devastating, but I think you nailed it. When the pilot in command or the, you know, the pilot in the helicopter said, hey, traffic in sight, it clearly most likely wasn't the same traffic that the air traffic controller was talking about. So a couple things in my opinion happened. Once the air traffic controller hears from the helo crew, hey, traffic in sight. Kind of a mental check in his mind that says, okay, let me go do some other things. Now he has that traffic in sight. Clearly he didn't have that exact traffic in sight because he ends up hitting him. Might have had a different traffic in sight, might have gotten test saturated as John alluded to. But I've seen what are allegedly the ATC tapes. I'm pretty sure they are the real ATC tapes on X. And when you have two contacts on your scope going towards each other, you got to say something. The controller could have potentially come up and said, hey, Pat25, confirm that you have traffic left 11, same altitude in sight, so maybe a little bit more directive. But as John alluded to, and you certainly said something, a mishap like this just should not happen. And if you're a white knuckle flyer right now and you're a little worried, it's almost passe to say, but it is a hell of a lot more dangerous driving to the airport. This doesn't happen too often because of the safeguards of the visual lookout that we have of the air traffic control procedures. Something broke down. And as John knows, in aviation mishaps, we call it a Swiss cheese model, right? All the holes have to line up for a mishap to happen. And it's going to be very interesting to see what the different holes are. But Megan, when I went to Pensacola Naval Air Station as a young naval aviator, they told me a couple of things. Aviation is a self cleaning oven. You have got to have the most elite, the most qualified individuals in the cockpit and in the tower because Years ago, CRM, Crew Resource Management. We actually brought the controllers technically into the cockpit. They're kind of a crew member. And I'll never forget one of my crusty flight instructors telling me, hey, Wiz, everybody's trying to kill you, including you, so keep your head on a swivel.

Megyn Kelly (11:03)

Mm. Can you guys explain? I don't know, John. Maybe this is for you, but can you explain what we're seeing in that video that we just played? Cause, I mean, if you look at it closely, you can see what appears to be the plane, the regional jet, the American jet in the front. And then there does appear to be another aircraft. I'm assuming it's the helicopter, but I don't know. Coming from behind, like, almost. It looks almost like it's chasing the plane, but I don't know that that's the helicopter.

John Wiz Buckley (11:30)

Yeah, I think. And I don't know if you want to play it again, but the helicopter is actually. It's just a very. A light dot that's moving from left to right in the airplane. You're actually seeing their landing light coming at you. In the bigger picture, there was another airplane behind. So what happens in a place like Logan or, sorry, national, you'll have multiple airplanes lining up. So this is the way you might. So the one you see now in the distance is an airplane that's behind. Right.

Megyn Kelly (12:05)

But see. Yeah, See, there's something approaching it. So that's not the helicopter. That's a different airplane.

John Wiz Buckley (12:09)

Yeah, the helicopter is coming from left to right in the image. So it's a very faint line. They don't have a very light thing. And so this is one of the issues. You know, did the helicopter pick up the wrong traffic? They were given the location. When they acknowledge the traffic over the bridge at 1200ft, they knew where to look. They saw a target there. Was it the right one? It's not clear. The other thing that we understand is that this was a night training mission. One of the things that happens in night training missions is the pilots will be actually using night vision goggles. Normally, you would not use night vision goggles in the city. You would use it in a dark area, but who knows? Were they through the goggles? In the goggles, things kind of blow up, so they're harder to get depth perception.

Megyn Kelly (12:59)

So the night vision goggles would not be good, you're saying. I've never worn them, so I don't know. But you would not want those on the helicopters.

John Wiz Buckley (13:08)

You wouldn't be using them near the city, because what Happens is when you have lots of lights, they kind of glare out or they blow out on the image. So it's hard to distinguish things. So use the night vision goggles in dark areas and when you get to where there's lots of lights, you would normally not use them. So I would be surprised if they were using them. The one other thing I would say is that. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Megyn Kelly (13:31)

No, no, you go ahead, John, finish.

John Wiz Buckley (13:32)

Oh yeah. So the controller did point out a few seconds before that did see they were close and did confirm to the helicopter, go behind the jet, don't go in front of it. So there was acknowledgement on the part of the controller. They did do a reminder to the airplane. It may have been too late by that point.

Megyn Kelly (13:53)

So do we think wiz that this was. Does it look to you at this point like helicopter pilot error? Because what I'm seeing on the screen and what I'm hearing from you guys isn't really looking at the pilot of that regional jet so much as, you know, what was this helicopter doing?

Cash Patel (14:10)

No, exactly. The RJ crew, they were in the zone, they were cleared. The land gear down, flaps down, stabilized approach. They're looking at the Runway environment. Is there an airliner on there? Somebody crossing? They are, they're singularly focused. If I was the captain of that RJ and I heard a potential traffic call and I heard that traffic say, hey, that guy's in sight. Done. I'm going to press forward here. So nothing on the RJ crew. And Megan, I'll be honest with you, as a naval aviator, after these type of mishaps, I'm torn. Right, because you don't want to, you don't want to spike the football. But also as an aviator, we want to dig into this. Half the crowd says, oh, we need to wait for the investigation and everybody. Nuh, I'm not in that crowd. I'm in the crowd of this is aviation, man. We have got to figure out what is it. Oxum's razor, Right. The most reasonable thing often is. So in this case, the pilot in command of the army helicopter is. You signed for the jet. I was a single seat F18 pilot. As a young 27 year old kid, I took a pen and I signed for that airplane. I am the pilot in command and ultimately responsible. So on that mission and last night when hey, traffic in sight. I got this again, I hate talking like this in this type of moment, but at the end of the day it's most likely going to come down to that since Day one of aviation, Megan, it's don't hit anything in the sky or anything on the ground. That's kind of rule number one of aviation. And the controllers do their best to help us out, but at the end of the day, it's eyeballs in the cockpit. And as I said earlier, everybody in aviation is trying to kill you, including you. So you have to keep your head on a swivel. And as John alluded to, no air, no. And in. In and around Reagan, you know, dca, that whole area, it's almost the Battle of Britain. Sometimes you have VIP helicopters, you got airliners. And it's very crowded airspace, even even though it's the most controlled airspace on the planet, especially after 9, 11. So after this mishap, the hair on the back, on the back of the neck is going to stand up with a lot of aviators in a lot of environments that say, hey, man, we have got to keep eyeballs out of the cockpit and let's not hit anything. Mission objective number one.

Megyn Kelly (16:31)

It feels like the helicopters should not be allowed in anywhere near the path of these commercial airliners, though I realize they've been doing it a. Without any incident. So it's like, okay, just because one went bad doesn't say it should all be banned. But, John, is there some minimum required distance that they're supposed to keep? You know, when they're in the airspace.

John Wiz Buckley (16:50)

There is minimum distance. That depends on the conditions. So if it had been cloudy and they were being controlled by radar, there is a minimum distance that has to be separated, which is actually very large as a result of that, that slows traffic down into. Into Reagan, et cetera. So you would actually have to shut off the jet traffic to allow a helicopter to go by. And it's not just. It's just not. Not just the military helicopters. At the same time, there was a medevac helicopter that was operating in the airspace. So this is really a result of Reagan being so close to the city. And they worked out procedures where the helicopters stay over the water and move around so that there are sort of standard procedures. And the minimum. When you're given visual separation and you accept the responsibility, which the helicopter did, is that you. Then you're responsible for staying out of it. But there is no minimum distance at that point. It's just where you feel safe and steer clear.

Glenn Greenwald (17:55)

So I think the real would, you.

Megyn Kelly (17:57)

Know, as a helicopter pilot, you just. I mean, I don't know, is there a calculation that shows you how big you are and how close you're getting to the plane or is it just your knowledge of this is the size of the aircraft I'm in.

Glenn Greenwald (18:08)

I don't want to hear that.

John Wiz Buckley (18:10)

It's like driving your car around a parking lot. Don't hit the other, don't hit the other car, don't hit the other airplane. So, I mean, you're used to the different dynamics and speeds in whatever and you know, they should have been able to do it. So was there a miscalculation? Did they get distracted? Did they see the wrong target? Were they using night vision goggles or something? We don't know that this is what will be the focus of the investigation. So I think that, you know, you wouldn't do this on purpose. So there was clearly some sort of error. And the thing that we try to do in accident investigation is to dig into the cause. What, what is it that would have caused the pilots to be head down. And we don't know what that is right now.

Megyn Kelly (18:52)

So, you know, I mean, I suppose we should leave open the possibility of helicopter malfunction too. I mean, we don't know for sure.

John Wiz Buckley (19:00)

Yeah, I mean, with something going on in the helicopter, with somebody sick and they get distracted. That's why I'm saying there can be distraction, there could be equipment problems. This was a training mission. They could have been focused on what they were doing on the training. So we don't know. But they up until that point appeared to be operating normally.

Megyn Kelly (19:21)

Was what?

Cash Patel (19:22)

You know, well, now there wasn't any last minute call, you know, hey, an emergency out of the Hilo or any issues. I think the final calls were like, hey, traffic in sight type of thing. But John brings up a good point. We have no idea what happened in the Hilo cockpit. Somebody drops something, hey, you take your goggles. Were they having a split goggle cockpit? Hey, put the goggles on to see how bright the city is and how these things are worthless. You have no idea what was going on. Did the crew chief come up and say something? So it is, you know, with three people in the helo, there's potentially a lot going on or a last minute issue with the aircraft.

Megyn Kelly (19:59)

Whenever there's black boxes will show us all of that.

Cash Patel (20:02)

The potentially should. Right? Yeah. Not on the helo side, but mishap investigators usually start at the top with everything. Right. Was it weather, was it mechanic? They kind of stepped through a checklist of was it this? And it'll be left with just. It's kind of an inverse funnel of what it most likely was. But there's always potential factors.

Megyn Kelly (20:27)

My pal Janice Dean was reporting the weather this morning for Fox, telling us that last night, while it was windy here in dc, very windy yesterday, by the time this happened last night, just before 9pm the wind had died down. It was extremely clear the temperature had calmed down too. She was convinced as a meteorologist that weather was not a factor in this, though she said bad weather is coming which is going to affect the rescue workers as of tonight, bad winds and rains and, you know, you just gotta feel for the first responders and the families still on site hoping for any sort of miracle. John?

John Wiz Buckley (21:02)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, but doesn't look very good right now.

Cash Patel (21:07)

You know what, Megan, real, real quick, I. The control tower folks, I'm equally as devastated because the folks in the tower, I guarantee you were second guess. And you can, I think on one of the tapes you can hear an audible gasp. And I've never been to air traffic control school, but I can probably speak with some authority that on day one they teach you, let's not have two airplanes hit on your watch. So all those folks who are on duty, I'm feeling for them too, and the families, just absolutely devastating me too.

Megyn Kelly (21:42)

It's so awful. All these ice skaters. Our young promising ice skaters, the future of our U.S. olympic team. Apparently it was the young ones, not the ones who will compete in a year, but the ones who would be competing in four years after that. And some at least 14 members of the US figure skating team believed to have been killed. That doesn't include parents and coaches. These two Russian figure skaters who had moved to the United States, Evgenia Shiskova and vadim Nubov. Married 1994 World Pairs Champions. Just the beauty of those two on the ice. And to think of just these promising, incredibly talented. I'm sure they'd been sharing their gifts. Athletes with everything in front of them. And then the others, you know, we haven't gotten all the details, but undoubtedly there will have been children, there will have been grandmas. There will have been people who had no idea that getting on a flight from Kansas to Washington D.C. would be the last thing they'd ever, ever do. The only comfort to me as somebody who has a mild to moderate fear of flying, is that they wouldn't have suffered, guys, right? I mean, like, they wouldn't have suffered. This would have been a very quick ending.

Cash Patel (22:54)

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's Sad. Megan. In 15 years of Flying Hornets, I lost 16 buddies and not one of them was a combat loss. So my heart definitely goes out to obviously all the civilians, too. But three army, three army folks woke up yesterday, threw on their flight suits and, and did not expect that this happen. And they, they, they passed serving their country. So God bless, God bless them as.

Megyn Kelly (23:18)

Well, too, and that they, they take an oath to protect and defend. They're out there to save lives that those, that's what those guys are doing. In no way clearly, did they mean to do anything that would cost them. Guys, thank you. Thanks so much for your expertise and for being here.

Cash Patel (23:31)

Yeah, thanks, Megan.

John Wiz Buckley (23:32)

Thank you. Thank you.

Megyn Kelly (23:34)

Say a prayer for the families and for the first responders. And he's right. For the air traffic controllers who still have to go out there and do their job. You know, I'm not a great flyer. My friend Abby, a different Abby and I have been joking for years that we're going to go learn how to fly, you know, because they said that's what cures fear of flying. But I'm too afraid to do it. But here are some of the stats that were circulating last night. Every day, more than 45,000 flights and 2.9 million airline passengers traveling for work or fun or to visit friends and family entrust their lives to the FAA. More than 45,000 flights a day. And we have not had an aircraft crash like this since 2009. Think about that. Think about that and then hold on. My pal, Yashar Ali, independent journalist, last night tweeted out the following. He said, I know this doesn't always help, but please remember that the last time there was a commercial airline crash in the US was in 2009. Since then, there have been over 150 million commercial flights in the US alone. Not one crash. Until tonight. Commercial air travel is the safest mode of transportation. Now, that's absolutely true. More than 150 million flights, totally safe, no crash. But the New York Times had an article in August, this past August about how close calls happened far more often than was previously known publicly. Multiple times a week, they said, involving commercial airlines, including, thanks to mistakes by air traffic controllers, stretched thin by a nationwide staffing shortage. And obviously, there's the risk of pilot error as well. And this is one of the reasons why President Trump, we have no idea. This is not a DEI comment. But that's one of the reasons why he's eliminating DEI in all aspects of the government, including the faa. You know, this industry, all industries, but this industry and the medical industry, where lives are at risk, must, must be based truly solely on merit. On merit. So beyond that, you know, it's so hard. We're going to do things to fix the risk of a helicopter running into a plane. You know, we'll, we'll put those patches in place, but every once in a while, out of 150 million, you're going to have an accident. And the thing about air travel is it's just so catastrophic. It's not like a car crash where, you know, it's, it's tragic enough if a family dies or a couple dies, but, you know, to see 67 people dead in an instant right over the nation's capital is traumatic. It's jarring for regular Americans who get on planes all the time. And it's just part of living in a free society where air travel is the miracle it is and we use it and rely on it heavily. I, despite my fear of flying, will be back on an airplane today out of Washington. And God willing, I'll be fine and so will you. But prayers for those affected by the horrific tragedy in D.C. today. Glenn Greenwald is here. We'll be right back. As we take a turn to politics, Increased tariffs on our trade partners, tax cuts and regulation changes. There's a reason why gold is a diversification tactic now more than ever. Birch Gold is releasing their ultimate guide for Gold in the Trump Era with a forward by Donald Trump Jr. To get your free copy along with Birch Gold's free information kit on gold. Text MK to the number 989898. Here are the facts. The national debt continues to increase. Our interest payments on the national debt continue to increase. So gold is an important option and it can be your hedge against a weakened dollar. Birch Gold can convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered IRA in gold. Text MK to 989-898 for your free copy of the ultimate Guide for Gold in the Trump Era. There's no obligation, just information with an A rating from the Better Business Bureau, countless five star reviews and thousands of happy customers. Find out more about Birch Gold. There is a reason so many people love these guys and take all or just a small part of their existing IRAs and move them over into gold with birch. Text MK to the number 989-898 today.

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Megyn Kelly (28:32)

To T's and C's. It was an extremely busy day on Capitol Hill. So let's get into two of the hearings and we'll do the third in a minute. Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel. My next guest is the perfect person to be discussing those with. He's Glenn Greenwald and he's the host of Rumble's System Update. He won a Pulitzer Prize in 2014, which we mention every time he comes on. Well, we don't always mention what it was for. It was his reporting at the Guardian at the time, based on the documents that were provided to him by Edward Snowden, whose name was mentioned nonstop at the Gabbard hearing today. Glenn, that must have been surreal for you. I mean, you knew it was coming, but I mean, if you had walked into the room and offered to testify at that moment, they would have said yes in a heartbeat to cross examine you like they did with Tulsi. Let me play a little sound before we get into it and I'll kick it off with. Okay, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do three soundbites. Okay. And I'm gonna set it up and then you're gonna take it on Snow. On Snowden. But I wanna give the audience a feel here. First is a Democrat. He was the one who first started it. Senator Angus King, Democrat of Maine. His was rather gentle. Here's how it went.

Senator Bill Cassidy (29:47)

The first item. Edward Snowden perpetrated the largest and most damaging public release of classified information in US Intelligence history. Caused tremendous damage to national security. And the vast majority of the documents he stole have nothing to do with programs impacting individual privacy. But you, you don't recall ever seeing the work of that committee?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:10)

I'm aware of those conclusions drawn.

Senator Bill Cassidy (30:13)

Edward Snowden, Were you aware at the time?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:16)

Yes, I was. Senator Edward Snowden broke the law. There's no question about that. He should not have released all of that information that caused that harm.

Senator Bill Cassidy (30:25)

So he broke the law, but it wasn't all that serious. Is that what you thought?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:28)

In 2020, I take very seriously upholding our Constitution.

Megyn Kelly (30:33)

Confirmed.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:33)

As Director of National Intelligence, I would take seriously the responsibility to protect our nation's secrets, just as I have for almost 20 years of holding a security clearance of some sort myself.

Megyn Kelly (30:47)

All right, I Lied. I'm going to show you two sound bites because they're too long. That was. That was a Democrat. Now here's Republican James Lankford of Oklahoma trying to dig down on Snowden, too.

Glenn Greenwald (30:58)

Was Edward Snowden a traitor?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (31:01)

Senator, my heart is with my commitment to our Constitution and our nation's security. Ours too, through I thank you. I have shown throughout my almost 22 years of service in the military, as well as my time in Congress, how seriously I take the privilege of having access to classified information.

Megyn Kelly (31:22)

Was he a traitor at the time.

Senator Bill Cassidy (31:23)

When he took America's secrets, released them.

Megyn Kelly (31:25)

In public, and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (31:28)

Senator, I'm focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.

Megyn Kelly (31:35)

Well, they didn't stop there, Glenn. As you know, they. I guess I will play it. Forgive me. I just want to set it up properly. Michael Bennett, he's a Democrat from Colorado, went all in and was not happy that she would not sign on to the T word. Traitor. Watch.

Senator Bill Cassidy (31:52)

Was Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (31:57)

Senator, I will also repeat my answer. He broke.

Glenn Greenwald (32:00)

He broke the law. You said, Senator, have confirmed.

Megyn Kelly (32:03)

This is when the rubber hits.

Senator Bill Cassidy (32:06)

This is.

Glenn Greenwald (32:06)

I will not you to make sure.

Senator Bill Cassidy (32:08)

That there is not an likely media. It's not a moment to propagate theories, conspiracy theories or attacks on journalism in the United States. This is when you need to answer the questions of the people whose votes you're asking for. As my colleagues said, this is not about you. It's about the people that serve the intelligence agencies of the United States. Is Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America? That is not a hard question to answer when the stakes are this high.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (32:49)

Senator, as someone who has your answer.

Senator Bill Cassidy (32:51)

Yes or no, is Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (32:59)

As someone who has worn uniform in combat, I understand how critical our national security.

Senator Bill Cassidy (33:06)

Apparently you don't.

Megyn Kelly (33:10)

Okay, Glenn, having set it all up, your thoughts.

Glenn Greenwald (33:15)

Obviously, the question of what Edward Snowden did, whether he did everything exactly the way people think he should have, is a point that can be debated, has been debated for a long time. One thing I will note is that at the time of the reporting, there was a lot of support both from the left and the right, the kind of anti establishment, populist wings of both parties. I remember it very well. And it was the centrist, bipartisan establishment wing that was enraged by what Edward Snowden did. Because what he did, I think we have to remember, is in this question of whether he's a traitor. Let's remember that, like Tulsi Gabbard, Edward Snowden, after 9 11, went to enlist in the United States Army. He heeded his government's call to go to war to defend his country. He then went to work for the CIA and the nsa, and only there did he discover that the NSA was doing things that it was never supposed to be doing, namely turning its very powerful surveillance tools onto its own citizenry. It was always supposed to be directed outward and spying on Americans without warrants in ways that Obama's National Security dni, his chief intelligence officer, James Clapper, falsely denied to Congress that they were doing. And he felt duty bound to come forward and let his fellow citizens know. And some of the programs we were able to reveal as a result of what he did ended up being declared both unconstitutional and illegal. And none of the people on this committee are angry about that. They're only angry at him for having exposed it. Because these people on this committee have supreme loyalty to the part of our government that's secret and that has been abusing its power, which is why President Trump picked her to go in and confront that. The other thing I wanna say, Megan, this idea of who's a traitor or not being a traitor means you tried to betray your country, you tried to harm your country and help your enemies. Edward Snowden had this archive of information that he was entitled to have. He had classified top secret security clearance. Think of all the things he could have done with that archive. He could have sold it to some foreign government or some group of non state actors that made a huge amount of money. He could have passed it secretly to America's enemies. He could have dumped it all on the Internet without regard to what it was exposing. He did none of that. He came to American journalists, myself who was working at the Guardian, Laura Poitras, who was working with the Washington Post, and he said, I only want you to reveal what is necessary to reveal. That's in the public interest for Americans to know. And all the decisions that were made about what got released and what weren't were decisions that we as journalists made. He played no role in deciding what was released and what wasn't. And the vast majority of the archive to this very day was never released because we acted in accordance with his very conservative views about how the archive should be treated. So again, you can dispute things he did say he should have done things in a different path, but the idea that he was a traitor when he could have done so many things to harm the United States. And everything he did was about protecting the privacy rights of American citizens as guaranteed by the Constitution that court said were being violated. That's why Tulsi defended him. Not because she believed everything he did was perfect, but because she knew that he was the only person with the courage to come forward and risk his liberty and risk his life, which he did in a very courageous way simply to let American citizens know what their government was doing to them in the dark. And I think this kind of histrionics about demanding that he. She call him a traitor is so. Is ridiculous. And the one last point I wanted to make, Megan, quickly if I could. You know, I know Tulsi. I have a lot of respect for her, even though I disagree with her on things. I was just talking to your team about this. If you look at those clips you just showed, Tulsi knew so well that if she had just called him a traitor, her path to confirmation would have been much clearer. But she doesn't think he's a traitor, so she refused to do that because she's not willing to say things she doesn't believe in order to advance her own career or gain power, which is extremely well known character.

Megyn Kelly (37:00)

I actually was thinking about that because I feel like if you'd been out there, you would say, no, he's not a traitor. And let me explain why, because she just knew she'd be losing too many Republican votes in particular. She was just forthright.

Glenn Greenwald (37:12)

Yeah. I mean, and maybe even Democrats. I mean, probably Republicans. Though if she had said no, that she does not think he's a traitor, her confirmation possibilities would be over. They're already at risk, but it would have been over. And so you could say, yeah, she should just do it on principle and go down with the fight and then they'll just put somebody in that seat after her who says, yeah, trait Snowden's a traitor, he should be murdered. The government did nothing wrong. The CIA did nothing wrong, or the nsa, you know, what's the victory in that? But the fact she wouldn't affirm false claims, I think is what made what she did. So, Adam, will, I wish she had said no, but if she had said no, her nomination would have been destroyed.

Megyn Kelly (37:47)

So it was striking to me to see how much time was spent on that. Granted, I was only there for about an hour and 15 minutes of the whole thing, but almost that entire time was spent on Snowden. I was thinking I'd be drunk if we were playing the Snowden drinking game. Glenn and then Swoops in right before I left. Senator Ted Young, Republican from Indiana, who is a critical vote. And I don't feel good about him voting yes on Tulsi. I could be wrong, you know, could be like a Cassidy situation with RFKJ where like, he played it in a way that confused me at the hearing and he winds up voting yes. I don't know whether Cassidy's gonna vote yes, but I didn't feel so good about Ted Young and I know a lot of eyes are on him. He also brought up this Noden stuff and here's how that went.

Senator Bill Cassidy (38:34)

Was Edward Snowden false to an obligation.

Cash Patel (38:37)

Or false to a duty?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:40)

I don't understand what you're saying. False.

Senator Bill Cassidy (38:43)

Yes.

Cash Patel (38:44)

Did he betray a duty? Did he betray the trust of the American people?

Senator Bill Cassidy (38:49)

Which is according to Merriam Webster, that's.

Cash Patel (38:53)

The definition of a traitor.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:56)

Edward Snowden broke the law and he released this information in a way that he should not have. He also acknowledged and exposed information that was unconstitutional, which drove a lot of the reforms that this body has made over the years to make sure that Americans constitutional rights are protected.

Senator Bill Cassidy (39:14)

For what it's worth, Mr. Snowden is watching these proceedings. He's posted on social media, even indicating.

Cash Patel (39:21)

That Tulsi Gabbard should indicate that I harmed national security.

Senator Bill Cassidy (39:28)

This may be the rare instance in which I agree with Mr. Snowden.

Megyn Kelly (39:34)

What are your thoughts on that one, Glenn?

Glenn Greenwald (39:36)

Okay, first of all, go and look at that tweet just to get an understanding for how politicians so readily lie. The tweet was saying, totally. Look, if Tulsi Gabbard needs to say that I harm national security and the sweet feelings of people in Washington, have her go say it. I know it's the Pledge of Allegiance you're required to take in Washington. He wasn't saying, oh, I'm here to finally confess that I harmed national security. And yet that's the claim that. And I have to say, there's so many claims that get made about Snowden. I know we don't have time to go into them. I just did a segment on it last night about how he ended up in Russia. He didn't choose to go there. He was trying to pass through there. The Obama administration trapped him there. All the things that are used against him. But be that as it may, I think the key point here is that when Donald Trump ran in six 2016, and when he ran again, he did not run against the Democratic Party. He ran against the establishment wings of both party, what he called the swamp people who believe that These institutions should never be reformed, that they never err. They're there to protect the status quo. They don't want washing. Washington changed. Trump ran on a promise, telling the American people what they already believe, which is that these institutions are fundamentally broken, that he wants to go in and radically restructure them, rebuild them, and make them work how they're supposed to work in the interest of the American people and not against them. And the nominees he sent, there are people who share that commitment, at least the ones that are controversial, to change these institutions that haven't been working. And I think it's important to realize that there are a lot of people in Congress, Senate Republicans and Democrats, who are very much have that pro establishment ethos. And even though they have to praise Trump and pretend they're on his side, they very much are there to subvert and impede what he does. And you're seeing a lot of that in these committee confirmation hearings.

Megyn Kelly (41:10)

I mean, it was pretty amazing. John Cornyn, too Republican, was all over her. Not on Snowden, but on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act, the FISA court and the warrants and Tulsi's reversal, which, again, you tell me if you disagree. She had to reverse herself on the use of the FISA court and these warrants or she never would have been. She had to have zero chance of getting confirmed. So she did an 11th hour like, oh, I support it, even though I've been very against it because they amended it and they made some changes that were acceptable. Literally, she might have just kissed her nomination goodbye if she hadn't said that. And so these senators were not accepting the reversal. And Republicans, like the FISA court, they're now much more controversial under Trump and with maga. But old school George W. Bush, Republicans love fisa. So John Cornyn is part of that crew. And here's a little bit of how he. And he was bringing up the 702, this provision which allows these, these behaviors under FISA watch.

Senator Bill Cassidy (42:09)

Are you aware that overwhelmingly the courts that have looked at a challenge to Section 702 based on the Fourth Amendment and any potential warrant requirement have overwhelmingly said that the Fourth Amendment is not implicated by search of lawfully collected intelligence?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (42:28)

I am aware, yes.

Senator Bill Cassidy (42:29)

Senator, what would be necessary to be shown in order to establish probable cause to a judge in order to obtain a warrant?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (42:39)

Again, Senator, that's not for me to say. That would be for you all to decide and for the Attorney General to weigh in on.

Senator Bill Cassidy (42:45)

Do you know what the elements of probable cause are and whether that's a problem, practical and workable solution, that this.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (42:53)

Is the center of the debate. The high standard of probable cause that's required to get a warrant.

Senator Bill Cassidy (42:59)

Where would the, where would the warrant be sought? Would it be in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, or would it be in Some other Article 3 court?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (43:08)

My understanding is that it would be in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

Senator Bill Cassidy (43:12)

Are you aware of the fact the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has held that a warrant is not required?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (43:18)

I am aware.

Megyn Kelly (43:20)

I'm going to put him down for a no to Glenn. Am I wrong?

Glenn Greenwald (43:26)

Probably not wrong. Unfortunately, I do think he might actually get a yes vote from Senator Wyden, whose entire career has been about warning of the dangers of NSA spying on Americans without warrants.

Megyn Kelly (43:35)

But, Megan, it was like a Jekyll and Hyde from yesterday with rfkj, with, with, with him.

Glenn Greenwald (43:40)

Why?

Megyn Kelly (43:41)

I was like, I know.

Glenn Greenwald (43:42)

And there she was agreeing with him. I guess the NSA has too many. But I just want people to understand what this issue is that they're debating. Since when is it a plank of the Republican Party or the American right that the federal government should have the right to spy on the communication of American citizens, which is what we're talking about here, without any warrants required by law? We all grew up studying the Bill of Rights and are taught that the Bill of Rights is what distinguishes our country from all the others. And I actually agree with that. I have a lot of critical critiques of the United States. I treat with reverence the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. The idea that the government can't spy on us without warrants is foundational to everything that we believe in. And here is John Cornyn on behalf of the Republican Party, treating Tulsi Gabbard like she's unqualified for a position in government because she believes the government should only be able to spy on American citizens once they first get the warrants required by the Constitution and the law. And this is what I'm trying to say. You have a huge part of the Republican Party still who has to pretend and appease Donald Trump because he is by far the most popular person in the Republican Party. They don't actually. They're far more ideologically aligned with a lot of the established members of the Democratic Party than they are with Donald Trump and the people who work so hard to get him elected and the ideology that he defended in order to be elected. And this is what you're seeing. Tulsi Gabbard isn't there because Chuck Schumer chose her. She's there Because Donald Trump did. And now they're going to vote in secret, which gives them the ability to vote no without any real percussions. And I do have a lot of concerns about her nomination. And the fact that her nomination is endangered because she has been a longtime defender, both in the Democratic Party and in the Republican Party, of the privacy rights of American citizens is mind blowing to me, but so reflective of how Washington politics has changed in so many ways.

Megyn Kelly (45:33)

Now, I am nowhere near as neck deep on FISA as you are, but I do remember the Fox News days of defending the FISA court and the FISA warrants because we were post 9, 11, we were very scared. And they were using the FISA court to try to get warrants on people they believe might be domestic terrorists, might be, you know, gonna let off a bomb. And so in that posture, I was like, great, do it, Go it, go for it. And I remember defending even the NSA program that Snowden leaked on. And you revealed in your reporting to some extent, because they defended it by saying, we weren't really spying on Americans. What we were doing was if a suspected foreign terrorist was talking to an American, then we would listen to the conversation. But you had to have that link. It wasn't just like, let's listen to Megan and Glenn. It was, oh, Megan's having a conversation with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Yes, we're tapping in and we're not gonna give her all of her Fourth Amendment rights before we do that. So can you take those two points on.

Glenn Greenwald (46:33)

Yeah. So let's remember that the most dangerous part of American history was the Cold War under, in the 60s, the 50s, 60s, 70s, and the 80s, through the Reagan administration and then Bush 41. The entire time when the US government, the NSA, the CIA, were spying on phone calls, if they learned that they were spying on a foreign national and they began speaking to an American citizen, they would have to hang up the phone and go and get a warrant. We managed to win the Cold War despite the warrant requirement being honored against all those presidents. And the reason why that's necessary is because we found out in the mid-70s with the Church Committee that the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, had been wildly abusing their spying power for years against political opponents for blackmail purposes. And the FISA court was an exception. It said, look, this isn't a real court. It's going to be in the DOJ. Only the government goes, and 99% of the cases are going to get the warrant anyway. But the need to have to justify it, at least provide some safeguards without actually impeding the executive branch's ability to spy. And as you say, it was only in the wake of 911 when George Bush and Dick Cheney said, we don't care what the law says, start spying, even if it's on Americans, without the warrants required by law. Lots of things happened right after 9 11, but we're far away from 911 now. People in both parties have said this is too dangerous to allow the government to do. The founders found, you know, viewed the warrant requirement as absolutely central to securing a free debate. Free country. Again, you can debate it, but the idea that Tulsi favors a warrant requirement for American citizens cannot possibly be disqualifying. The other part about the program that Snowden revealed, that's 702. The main program that he revealed that ended up being declared unconstitutional, legal, was the fact that the NSA was collecting all of the information about all of our telephone calls, where we were, with whom we were speaking, for what duration, including by and among American citizens, without warrants and in complete secrecy. And when you can find out the so called metadata, meaning I called a HIV doctor, you called an abortion clinic, you're talking to some person that's not your spouse late at night, you get a very comprehensive picture of the person whose data you've collected. And they were collecting that data on every single American on US Soil, unbeknownst to not even the people in Congress with no warrant or supervision at all. That was the program that most bothered Edward Snowden. That was the first one I reported at the Guardian, and that's the one that courts found were both unconstitutional and illegal, which again, you can debate all these other details, but to try and claim that someone's a traitor or that they somehow are in unfit to serve in government because they believe in a war requirement or think it's a good thing that we found out our government was violating our constitutional rights. That's when I think you see this fanaticism to protect the US Security state. That's very unhealthy for our democracy.

Megyn Kelly (49:20)

Meanwhile, it's like you broke trust. He broke trust with the United States. Like, okay, if that's going to be our standard for declaring someone a traitor, Joe Biden is going to have to be accused of being a traitor. I mean, like, how many lies did he. I'm not going to pardon my son. I never did business with my son. Oh, and by the way, I'm totally competent to do the job. Kamala Harris, she should. She's a traitor because she told those same lies. And they weren't true. It's like that. That can't. That dictionary definition he pulled up was kind of a trick. It was just sort of a fun parlor trick.

Glenn Greenwald (49:50)

There's only one. Sorry, Megan.

Megyn Kelly (49:54)

I was going to say it doesn't much matter because he gets to vote and you and I don't. And he's going to do it behind closed doors and he's going to probably vote her down. I know she can still head to the floor, but how can she get a vote? I think that. I think even the floor vote can be stopped if she doesn't get cloture. If she doesn't get 60 votes for cloture. So. I don't know, Glenn. I think that nomination's in trouble.

Glenn Greenwald (50:15)

Yeah, me, too. And just by the way the Constitution defines treason. Being a traitor. It means aiding and abetting an American enemy in a time of war. That's what treason is. He chosen to charge with treason. But yeah. And also, you can pick up the newspaper every day, as you well know, Megan. And every article begins with according to classified documents provided by the New York Times. Provided to the New York Times. Washington leaks classified documents every single day. People in the highest levels of government for their own purposes. Cause no one thinks they're a traitor.

Megyn Kelly (50:44)

Yeah, maybe that could stop if we got somebody at the top of all those agencies who could be trusted to protect Americans Fourth Amendment rights. To be honest with President Trump about the intelligence assessments that are coming in and wouldn't be so interested in seeing her information appear in the pages of the Washington Post or in overseeing organizations that have people like that. I mean, what could happen if we tried radical change there, too? In the same way we're trying radical change at DOD and hopefully hhs. Like, that's the point of Tulsi. What we've been doing has led to the collapse, in some ways of some of our most fundamental ideals in our country. And people have had it. That's why they elected Trump. He said he was gonna put her, you know, at the top of. It's just. There is a mandate for Trump's nominees. Why can't we just try it? I don't know. Like, they want us to believe we're gonna get bombed tomorrow by some terrorist organization because Tulsi said no to fisa, or Tulsi thinks Edward Snowden might not be a traitor. And that's really impugning the woman's integrity as someone who's not a patriot, who doesn't love the country, who won't act in our best interests. And I'll just. I'll play this one last sound bite, then I'll give it back to you, and then we'll move on to cash. But here was Tulsi defending some of these attacks in a more sweeping form as part of her opening statement in SOT ii.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (52:00)

You may hear lies and smears in this hearing that'll challenge my loyalty to and my love for. For our country. Those who oppose my nomination imply that I am loyal to something or someone other than God, my own conscience, and the Constitution of the United States, accusing me of being Trump's puppet, Putin's puppet, Assad's puppet, a guru's puppet, Modi's puppet, not recognizing the absurdity of simultaneously being the puppet of five different puppet masters. The fact is, what truly unsettles my political opponents is I refuse to be their puppet.

Megyn Kelly (52:40)

Mm. That nails it.

Glenn Greenwald (52:44)

That nails it. And also, anyone who knows Tulsi will tell you that of all the people who are in prominent positions in Washington politics, she's basically the least likely to submit to someone else's will or do as she told. I think there's a lot of assumptions going on there that she's incapable of real autonomy. She always has to have men pulling her strings. There's a lot of kind of embedded assumptions going on. And also, you know, I remember the time that I was most offended. Hillary Clinton, who voted to send people to the Iraq war because she knew it would serve her presidential aspirations, but, of course, never went and fought herself. No one in her family did. Never got near a front line. Tulsi Gabbard answers the call of people like Hillary Clinton in Washington, George Bush, et cetera, to go fight in Iraq. She goes and risks her life there. She's been in the military for 20 years. She still is. She's a lieutenant colonel in the military. And then Hillary Clinton turned around in 2016 and said, I think she's being controlled by the Russians. Her loyalties lie elsewhere. And then you have all these people today, again, trying to say that somehow she's in Putin's pocket or she's in Assad's pocket. It is really reprehensible. You can disagree with Tulsi Gabbard's view on Syria or Russia or Ukraine, whatever. Those things should be debated and are debated. And like you said, what's the worst thing that can happen? You put someone like that into a position, you have a debate, you have vibrancy, there's still safeguards. You can impeach her if she really does any of these worst case scenario things. But to watch somebody who has given their entire lives to being deployed overseas, to putting their life in harm's way for their country, and then have a bunch of politicians who send people to war but never go and fight them or send their kids to go to fight them, impugning her patriotism constantly or her integrity is really disgusting. And I feel very offended when I watch it, honestly.

Megyn Kelly (54:19)

I'm glad you said the woman thing, because I was, I was talking to Steve Bannon yesterday on his podcast and he said, why do you think they're coming after her over and over with this? Like she's Putin's puppet and Bashar Al Assad. And I said, I have to be honest, there is something that is jarring to me that has to do with the fact that she's a woman. Like, she's easily manipulated. She's too dumb to see through an attempted manipulation by Bashar Al Assad. You know, it's like I went over to Russia repeatedly. I sat with Vladimir Putin, former KGB agent. He definitely tried to manipulate me. He knew exactly which buttons to push. He knew I was a mother. He tried to talk about my children. He tried to talk about his own children to soften me up. I understood fully what he was doing. I was not manipulated by Vladimir Putin. It was interesting to watch the stagecraft, the witchcraft, spycraft of it. But there's an assumption with her, I think, that she's just easily. She doesn't understand how they're trying to manipulate her. And the fact that she can emerge after somebody who did try to manipulate her with a more nuanced view, like not, not, not emerge from the meeting with Bashar Al Assad or from studying Putin by saying they're the most evil dictators ever. But to say I wasn't manipulated. But I do see this situation differently than some of the neon neocons do. That's it, right? Like, that's her biggest sin, that she's not allowed to have nuance. You have to be totally against them. I will do one more sound bite back to Michael Bennett of Colorado, who's very angry about what she said the night Russia invaded Ukraine. Sat 12.

Senator Bill Cassidy (55:45)

Are you aware that your comments about proxy wars and Russia's legitimate, legitimate security concerns, to quote your own words, are in alignment with what the Russians have said to justify their invasion of Ukraine?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (56:07)

Yes, Senator, I don't pay attention to Russian propaganda. My goal is to speak the truth, regardless of whether you like it or.

Senator Bill Cassidy (56:15)

Not, that you basically said that Putin was justified in rolling over the peaceful border of Ukraine, the first time since World War II that a free nation had been invaded by a totalitarian state. And you were there at 11:30pm that night to say that you are with them, not us. But can't we do better than somebody who doesn't believe in 702? Can we believe that somebody who can't answer whether Snowden was a traitor five times today who made excuses for Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine? I'm questioning her judgment. That's the issue that's at stake here.

Megyn Kelly (57:01)

Go ahead, Glenn.

Glenn Greenwald (57:03)

This is the exact same impression I had with the RFK junior Hearing yesterday. You would think that these people are defending policymakers and decision makers and institutions that have been unerring, that have done nothing but great things for America. How dare you say that our health regulatory system has anything wrong with it needs fixed when we just got lied to over and over about one of the most consequential health crises in 100 years. And we know we got lied to. Same thing here. We have fought so many wars, got involved in so many overseas conflicts that have been absolutely disastrous for the United States. A lot of it has been based on lies, based on false intelligence. That's Iraq, that's Vietnam, and many other things. And here you have somebody in Tulsi Gabbard saying something that has been said for decades in Washington at the highest levels of the CIA, which is, if you try and expand NATO into Ukraine, the Russians will perceive this as an existential threat and you're going to provoke some sort of conflict where they go over the border into Eastern Ukraine and even into Crimea and try and annex it to defend themselves. So she's trying to say, you don't have to agree with her. Hey, we should think about the things we're doing in Eastern Europe that are threatening to the Russians and we should try and get along with them, given that they have the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. Something Ronald Reagan did, something Richard Nixon did, went and visited Russia, did arms deals with them. If you do anything other than simply clap like a seal for everything the US Foreign policy establishment does and says and never criticize them and only side with them and say everything they do is right. If you do anything else like that, it means you're with them and not us. I want people in our government who are able to be engaged in self or introspection and say, hey, maybe the policies that we're pursuing are causing harms. It doesn't mean Putin was justified in invading Ukraine she never said that. She said the opposite. But we still should look at our policies all the time. And the idea that if we're critical of our leaders or our government's policies, it means we're a traitor. To me, the highest duty of patriotism is to try and improve your country, improve your government, and sometimes that means by criticizing it.

Megyn Kelly (58:59)

Amazingly well said. Exactly right. So we'll see. I do believe that we'll find out what the vote was. Tom Cotton is running heard on that committee, and he's very much behind Tulsi, which is good. He's such a noble guy, too. I just. I think he'll. He'll do his level best to get her across the finish line. Just not 100% sure it's possible because the questioning on the Republican side was just so negative and kind of nasty. And she's definitely not going to find those votes over on Team Blue. But it would be amazing if Wieden comes through for her. He was so nasty yesterday. Everybody was like, he looks like a waxy Pallard funeral director. And I was like, that's it. Exactly. But today he was like, oh, my bff. All right, let's talk about Cash Patel. Who. Spicy fireworks. He was given as good as he was getting that they don't. They don't like him. The Democrats don't like him. It wasn't going badly for him with the Republicans, which is really what he cares about. We kicked it off, actually. Senator Tillis, who's a Republican, had a funny moment that went viral on X and you'll see why. Here it is.

Callie Means (60:05)

Colleagues, I created a cash bingo card that I have available to any of my colleagues who would like it.

Senator Bill Cassidy (60:14)

On the other side of the aisle.

Megyn Kelly (60:16)

Some may view this as an unserious.

Callie Means (60:18)

Caricature and not appropriate for this committee. Sadly, I consider it a serious caricature of what I expect to be witnessed today. I think we'll have words like enemies list and deep state. I've already X'd out four boxes in the opening statements alone. The fact of the matter is, some people will be here to simply substantiate a false narrative.

Megyn Kelly (60:52)

Okay, so I love that. The Cash Patel bingo card. And true to form, that's how it sounded. I'm going to kick it off with an exchange Cash had with Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota. And she ran for president not long ago, and he really was not taking her. Trying to give him the business watch, asking to be head of the FBI, and he said that their headquarters should be shut down.

Callie Means (61:17)

Mr.

Megyn Kelly (61:18)

Chair. Parliamentary inquiry.

Senator Bill Cassidy (61:19)

You got anything you want to say, Mr. Patel, before I go on to Senator Lee?

Megyn Kelly (61:24)

Simply this.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (61:25)

If the best attacks on me are gonna be false accusations and grotesque mischaracterizations, the only thing this body is doing is defeating the credibility of the men and women at the FBI. I stood with them here in this country in every theater of war we have. I was on the ground in service of this nation. And any accusations leveled against me that I would somehow put political bias before the Constitution are grotesquely unfair. And I will have you reminded that I have been endorsed by over 300,000 law enforcement officers to become the next director of the FBI. Let's ask them, Mr. Chairman, I am.

Senator Bill Cassidy (62:00)

Quoting his own words from September of 2024.

Megyn Kelly (62:05)

It is his own words.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (62:07)

It is not some conspiracy.

Megyn Kelly (62:09)

It is what Mr. Patel actually said himself. Facts matter.

Senator Bill Cassidy (62:15)

You forget that you had three minutes in the next round to say what you just said.

Glenn Greenwald (62:19)

Okay, I'll say them again.

Megyn Kelly (62:24)

Okay, so a couple things I observed there. Grassley, who's 88, is still really strong. Listen him yelling at her at the end like, get off my lawn, you angry lady. And she. She was like those Democrat women at the. At the Pete Hegseth hearing, like. Like a whiny, scoldy lady. And Cash Patchel, every comeback he had in the entire hearing should have been punctuated with a boom. That's. You kind of. You can see him kind of doing it, too. Like, boom, go. It was fun to watch. I don't think they laid a glove on him, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Glenn.

Glenn Greenwald (63:03)

This is the thing that really amazes me, Megan, and it's been amazing me for two years now. The Democrats keep saying with a straight face that they are concerned that first Donald Trump won, and now if Cash Patel gets confirmed, that they're going to politicize the Justice Department in order to weaponize the Justice Department and go after their political enemies. And you're sitting there and you're watching this, and you're thinking, I just watched you bring four felony cases against Donald Trump and openly admit that your election strategy was to make sure he was imprisoned prior to the 2024 election because you thought that was the best chance for you to win the election with Joe Biden. I've watched you spend the entire first Trump term unleashing Robert Mueller and every prostitute you can find based on this bizarre conspiracy theory that Trump collaborated with the Kremlin, which came out of the FBI and the CIA because they hated Trump and Robert Mueller. Himself ended up saying there was no evidence for it. They've done nothing. But the Democrats have politicized and weaponized the CIA, the FBI, the entire justice system and intelligence apparatus. And then they have the nerve to turn around and say that because Trump is putting somebody in there who wants to clean that out, they're the ones that are going to weaponize the justice system. The level of audacity to this is almost impossible to swallow.

Megyn Kelly (64:20)

Yes. So on that subject, Dick Blumenthal of Connecticut, he comes out there trying to suggest that he. Hold on a second. I make sure I get it. I can't find it on my SOT list, you guys, but it's the one where he's pushing him about whether he's going to protect FBI agents against retribution. Do we have that standby as we get our act? So that's 21. Yeah, here it is. 21.

Senator Bill Cassidy (64:50)

Will you commit that you will not tolerate the firing of the FBI agents who worked with the Special Counsel's office on these investigations?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (65:01)

Senator, I appreciate the time to visit with you.

Senator Bill Cassidy (65:03)

It is a yes or no answer, and it is your first test.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (65:08)

Senator, every FBI employee will be held to the absolute same standard, and no one will be terminated for case assignments.

Senator Bill Cassidy (65:14)

I'm not going to accept that answer. Because if you can't commit that those FBI agents will be protected from political retribution, we can't accept you as FBI directors.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (65:28)

All FBI employees will be protected against political.

Senator Bill Cassidy (65:31)

They deserve. Those individuals deserve to be protected from Trump retribution. That was your first test. You failed it by saying all FBI.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (65:41)

Employees should be protected.

Megyn Kelly (65:47)

I mean, what more does he want from him?

Glenn Greenwald (65:50)

Also, what they're really trying to do is basically create an immunity for people who broke the law. Let's assume that it is true, which of course it is, that people inside the FBI and these other agencies abused their power because they wanted to destroy Donald Trump because they disliked him politically, which of course we know. We've seen the emails of people inside the FBI saying exactly that. Who brought the Russiagate investigation? Should those people be allowed to just continue in the FBI as if they never abused their power, or should the people who abuse their power be removed from that position? Of course they should be removed from that position. They're trying to extract a promise from Kash Patel that he won't remove any of the people who did the Democrats bidding by abusing these agencies and destroying their credibility. And he's saying, look, they won't be subject to political retribution. But obviously, if people inside these agencies broke the law of Course, they should be investigated. That's what it means to have a rule of law.

Megyn Kelly (66:43)

Yeah. If they misused their power, if they abused their power, they're gone. Finally, there will be some accountability. It's not a political payback. It's, you're horrid. You're trying to destroy this nation. Goodbye. Go find another job. I really enjoyed the exchange about what's gonna happen with the FBI HQ because, you know, politicians like Ron DeSantis and others and Trump, but explicitly and DeSantis made this a big issue, have been saying, we need to get the FBI out of Washington. This is not. This is not the place for this building. They need to, you know, touch grass, one of those kinds of things. And this came up in response to a questioning by Chris Coons, who's a Democrat from Delaware with cash. Take a listen to Sat 19.

Cash Patel (67:25)

How would shutting down the FBI headquarters impact its ability to prosecute violent crime and drug traffickers?

Megyn Kelly (67:31)

How is that possibly a serious proposal?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (67:34)

Thank you for bringing that up and allowing me to answer. It was to highlight the significantly greater point that I was actually making in that interview, which is well documented over and over again. 38,000 FBI employees, 7,500 FBI employees work in the Washington field office and Hoover Building alone. If you increase that aperture just slightly to encompass the national capital region, that is 11,000 FBI employees work in the national capital region. A third of the workforce for the FBI works in Washington, D.C. i am fully committed to having that workforce go out into the interior of the country where I live west of the Mississippi, and work with sheriff's departments and local officers. And having one agent prevent one homicide, and having one agent in Washington prevent one rape. And I will do that over and over and over again because the American people deserve the resources. Not in Washington, D.C. but in the rest of the country.

Megyn Kelly (68:28)

And Mr. Patel, frankly, if that had been your statement, that would be something.

Cash Patel (68:31)

That would be defensible.

Megyn Kelly (68:33)

It's the rest of it saying you're.

Cash Patel (68:34)

Going to turn it into a museum.

Megyn Kelly (68:35)

Of the deep state that causes repeated questions and concerns from people like myself. Again, Kash, gonna finish with boom, but, you know, he's telling him what he means. And this pushing back on relocating the FBI HQ is ridiculous. They love to go through and find the silly podcast rhetoric, like the bellicose language. This is like another JD Vance, childless cat lady, right? Like you said, something provocative. Well, here he is, like, telling you everything you want to know. And I really think he got Coons to stand down there.

Glenn Greenwald (69:06)

Well, also, you know, look at what the Democrats are defending. They just got done with an election where they largely got crushed because they were perceived as, correctly, as the party of the status quo, as the party that defends even rotted American institutions that people hate. And now they're defending the pharmaceutical industry from more regulatory scrutiny. They're defending the US Surveillance state from being able to spy on Americans without warrants. And here they're defending the J. Edgar Hoover FBI building in Washington. And obviously, when Cash Patel is saying we should close it or whatever, what he's obviously saying is this was never intended to be some permanent part of Washington power. This is not. This is a law enforcement agency that was supposed to solve federal crimes, investigate and solve federal crimes throughout the country. Instead, it's become yet another arm of how Washington exercises power against the rest of the country. And we should take these resources and put them inside the United States, not putting them all in Washington, because that's how it becomes a political entity. When you're centering everything in Washington. Everybody wants to work in Washington, be around Washington. Of course, it's going to then become politicized. And this idea of a museum to the deep state. We do have a deep state in the United States. Dwight Eisenhower warned about it 60 years ago on his way out of the office. It's a permanent power faction that exercises power regardless of the outcome of elections, outside of democratic accountability. And it used to be foundational on the American left to understand this, and now it's taboo to say it, but this is part of the reason why I'm most enthusiastic about these nominees, the ones running into the most resistance. Cash, Patel, rfk, junior Tulsi. Because they're essentially saying there's something very wrong in how Washington works. The power that has been centralized was never supposed to be like this, and we need to break it up. We need to smash it up into little pieces and make sure that that abuse becomes manifest and can't be replicated again.

Megyn Kelly (70:57)

I hope President Trump picks up the phones and, you know, puts some pressure on these Republican senators to stand by him and give him the cabinet he's asked for. They don't. They're not a rubber stamp. It's true, they're not. But the president has a clear agenda, and that agenda does speak to exactly this strain. He definitely ran on this. And so this, if this is your objection to his nominee, you're not gonna like the next one either. I don't think Trump's gonna abandon these kinds of promises to remake the FBI, certainly, or to bring radical change to HHS with his next nominee. So, you know, we'll see whether they get these guys out. I certainly hope not. I really hope Tulsi gets through And I think RFKJ's gonna get through depending on this. Senator Cassidy, we'll talk with that about Kali Means next. Glenn, thank you.

Glenn Greenwald (71:44)

Great to see you. Megan, thank you.

Megyn Kelly (71:46)

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Glenn Greenwald (74:38)

That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months.

Callie Means (74:43)

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Megyn Kelly (74:50)

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Back on the hot seat today on Capitol Health. Do you believe they made him do this twice? I don't totally understand why, to be honest, but he had to go in front of that was finance yesterday and now today was the Senate Committee on Health, Education, labor and Pensions. HHS is just so big. It answers to both. This committee is the committee will not vote on the nomination in order for it to go to the full floor for a vote. That's going to fall over to the Senate Finance Committee, which RFKJ appeared before yesterday and we covered for you in yesterday's show. But these Republicans matter, so they're all showing their hands a bit on whether they might actually vote for him. And we care. We especially care if they're Republicans. And we especially, especially care when we're looking at Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy, who is a Republican and who in my own view yesterday did not appear exactly warm toward rfkj. Keep in mind Trump can lose three, but not four Republican senators. He already got hosed by Murkowski, Collins and McConnell on Hegseth, the odds of them not tanking him on his more controversial nominees, which in some ways RFKJ is, are slim. And so they cannot lose Bill Cassidy. So are they going to so he was the chairman of the committee before which RFKJ appeared today. And he, as the chairman and the ranking member always do, gave his own opening remarks and spoke openly about some of his reservations.

Senator Bill Cassidy (76:26)

It's no secret I have some reservations about your past positions on vaccines and a couple other issues. Now, Bobby, I've learned you got a tremendous following. My phone blows up with people who really follow you and there are many who trust you more than they trust their own physician. And so the question I need to have answered is what will you do with that trust?

Megyn Kelly (76:54)

Senator Cassidy, who was a physician before entering politics, also told the story about the worst day of his career, treating a young woman in liver failure due to hepatitis B. He told Kennedy 50 in vaccines would have prevented this. And then the two of them, Senator Cassidy and rfkj, had a very tense back and forth regarding the measles and the hep B vaccine and autism concerns. Now, at the end of this hearing, Senator Cassidy made clear he is still unsure, still unsure about his vote for rfkj, saying, my responsibility is to learn if you can be trusted to support the best public health. You may be hearing from me over the weekend. What does that mean? Lift the dress up, Senator. Show us all. Kali Means is one of RFKJ's top advisors. He's truly one of the reasons why he's even been chosen for this role. And he is one of, if not the founding member of the whole Maha movement. He's the man responsible for the Trump RFKJ alliance. He and Tucker, I would say, are the two. And when RFKJ endorsed Donald Trump last summer, he mentioned Cali in his speech.

Glenn Greenwald (78:02)

A few hours after the assassination attempt at Butler, I got a call from.

Megyn Kelly (78:11)

A safe food advocate named Kelly Means.

Callie Means (78:15)

He'd been advising me for many years.

Glenn Greenwald (78:18)

And on my campaign. And he told me that night that.

Megyn Kelly (78:22)

He was also advising President Trump.

Glenn Greenwald (78:25)

And he asked if I would talk to President Trump.

Callie Means (78:28)

President Trump. And I said, of course.

Glenn Greenwald (78:30)

And we talked about.

Callie Means (78:31)

Not about the things that separate us.

Glenn Greenwald (78:34)

Because we don't agree on everything, but on the values and the issues that bind us together. And one of the issues that he.

Megyn Kelly (78:43)

Talked about was having safe food and.

Glenn Greenwald (78:47)

Ending the chronic disease epidemic.

Megyn Kelly (78:50)

Right on. Kelly's a former food and pharmaceutical consultant. He was on the inside, you see, and then realized what they were doing to us and has been working to save us all ever since. He entered that industry with good intentions, trying to shape policy, but realized something was deeply, deeply wrong. Callie joins me now for the first time on this show. Callie, what a pleasure.

Callie Means (79:10)

Oh, it's great to be here, Megan. And great to see you yesterday.

Megyn Kelly (79:12)

Oh, gosh, likewise. I've just. I'm such a huge fan of yours. So I saw you yesterday, but I didn't see any of the hearing today. My team pulled some great sound bites. Didn't see any of it today. Cause I was with Rubio and then Tulsi, so. So you've sat through it all. How did today differ from yesterday? And how are you feeling, Megan?

Callie Means (79:28)

There's a lot Weighing on, I think the country right now. We're at a true inflection point for American health. From your first interview with Bobby years ago, putting him on the national scene and really helping with that to that incredible endorsement with Donald Trump of bringing millions of Maha moms to this coalition that elected him, we are at a fork in the road for American Health. And I'll just be really blunt. The takeaway from this hearing is that road goes through Senator Bill Cassidy. Senator Bill Cassidy is a very influencer provincial senator. He's a doctor, he's a physician, he's chair of the health committee. And I'll just be blunt, as Bill Cassidy votes will go the way of Maha and rfk. And I'd love to, if it's okay with you, Megan, make a direct plea to Senator Cassidy because I know he cares very much about public health and trust in public health. And I know he is legitimately still considering this vote. And I think everyone needs to focus their attention on him right now. I'd love to make a couple points to him.

Megyn Kelly (80:26)

Please go ahead.

Callie Means (80:29)

So Bill Cassidy by all accounts is somebody that, as I said, deeply cares about trust in public health. And I really do believe that the so called Maha movement, this loose coalition of folks that came together that are really concerned about children's health and Dr. Cassidy, who's a person who's spent decades working on healthcare and health policy to help patients, I think they're talking past each other. The crux of Dr. Cassidy's deliberation is around trust in public health. And I want to just make a couple points, Tim, as a parent speaking, I think trying to channel what brought Bobby Kennedy into popularity and into helping President Trump the public health crisis. And the trust in public health is not because of Bobby Kennedy. Just speaking as a parent. There's anxiety among every single parent in this country. I mean, kids are looking at kids. There's autism rates that are skyrocketing. We don't know why autism is skyrocketing. I'm scared as a parent of a three year old about autism. It's now one in 30 in California. The NIH and the public health authorities have not come to a conclusive answer on why autism rates are going through the roof. Kids are subjected to an unending array of environmental toxins and toxins in our food. The fda, which is is fully bought off by the pharma and food industries. 75% of the drug approvals at the FDA are funded by pharma. They said we don't even know the Chemicals in our food. There's 10,000 chemicals in our food that aren't allowed in any other country. And the red dyes and things like this the FDA still tells us are safe. We're trying to ban one. There are still many other chemicals like that that are totally inappropriate. Kids are walking into a treadmill of drugs right now. The American Academy of Pediatrics is saying that the standard of care for a 2 year old, excuse me, for a 12 year old, is Ozempic if they're overweight or obese and they're studying for as low as 6. The health authorities are saying that if a kid is sad, they need an ssri. SSRI rates have doubled in prescription rates among teens in the last five years. They're saying if they have high cholesterol, it's a statin. Statin rates have doubled in the past 10 years among teens. Metformin, ACE inhibitors, all of these drugs our kids are getting on as they're getting more sick. The standard of care is totally clearly rigged where 40% of our teens are on a pharmaceutical product and there's 4.6 billion pharmaceutical prescriptions written per year that clearly aren't working. And I'll be honest, I'll just be blunt, Megan. As a parent, I'm concerned about vaccines. We have a different schedule in the United States than other countries. As Bill Cassidy said today, it is not appropriate for a kid to get a hepatitis B vaccine, which is an std, on the first day of life if the mother tested negative for that condition. That is not the mandate right now. It is a mandate for first day of life. That is the CDC guidance. So what Senator Cassidy said even today contradicts the specific, unambiguous CDC guidance. There are questions to ask all these things. And again, when we come to the issue of trust, I would plea to Senator Cassidy from knowing Bobby Kennedy, from seeing Bobby Kennedy. I have never, ever heard him say that he wants to get in there and exert his own opinions. He has consistently said, and he believes this to his core, his opinions, even if he has differing personal opinions on certain pharmaceutical products than Senator Cassidy, are meaningless when he gets into the hhs. He and President Trump are strongly, strongly they're hell bent on restoring trust in science, on getting money to scientists who do not have conflicts of interest and unleashing them to do true scientific inquiry on why we're getting so sick. He means it when he says to Senator Cassidy that he wants to retort, stress and tie ins. And the crux of Senator Cassidy's final message. And his final question to Bobby Kennedy is will Bobby Kennedy definitively say unambiguously that vaccines don't cause autism? And Bobby Kennedy wouldn't answer that question directly. I think it's inappropriate.

Megyn Kelly (84:38)

Stand by, Kelly. We have that, we have that. Let me play it and then you take it on the back end. Watch.

Senator Bill Cassidy (84:42)

Does a 70 year old man, 71 year old man, who spent decades criticizing vaccines and who's financially vested in finding fault with vaccines, can he change his attitudes and approach now that he'll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States? I recognize, man, if you come out unequivocally, vaccines are safe, it does not cause autism. That would have an incredible impact. That's your power. So what's it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles or will it be using credibility to undermine? And I got to figure that out from my vote.

Megyn Kelly (85:29)

Go ahead, Kelly.

Callie Means (85:30)

Megan, this is honestly, it's hitting on one of the most important, I think the most important issue in the country, which is trust in our institutions and trust in science. The way to increase trust in science is not for the HSS secretary to make a religious basically opinion, a fully 100% firm opinion one way or the other. It's for the HHS secretary to say, senator, we are going to continue to conduct science on every question, particularly the most taboo questions, particularly the questions that we've been told are settled science. How many times do we need to be reminded of the corporate capture of institutions, the breakdown institutions? Is it that controversial to say that vaccines can be one of the greatest inventions in American history? But also the fact that the two largest vaccine makers, GlaxoSmith Klein and Merck, have settled billions of dollars of criminal penalties in the past five years and their findings should be continually subjected to science that in order to gain trust in public health we need to be able to ask questions and have continued trust in science. This is the key question. It is inappropriate for and against frankly, Bobby Kennedy's nature to give a specific opinion. And he's not coming in to HHS with opinions. He's coming into HHS to set a process where the metric of success is that according to Gallup polls and other polls, Americans trust science more, Americans trust vaccines more. The absolute implosion of public trust in public health is not because of Bobby Kennedy. It's because of the public health authorities themselves. And I think Bocasse understands and knows that.

Megyn Kelly (87:12)

Could I just say that because I had a very visceral reaction to that sound bite, that's the first I've heard that. And I really feel like, how dare he try to extract that statement from rfkj? I mean, there are millions of Americans who either are personally or their children have been vaccine injured based on different vaccine experiences. It doesn't mean the vaccine's always unsafe. It does depend on the person sometimes. But how dare he try to get him to say out loud, vaccines are safe. And I favor vaccine. Well, like which vaccines? The COVID vaccine? Because I can tell you, I, along with a lot of other Americans have had very negative experiences with that. And I would be outraged if I heard him issue such a sweeping declaration. I mean, as you well know, is it safe for a 15 year old boy who you know might have a heart murmur? Senator Cassidy, why should RFKJ say it is? Kids could get killed. Like that's a crazy thing you tried to get him to say at the end there. And I'm glad RFKJ won't do it.

Callie Means (88:13)

Yeah. The reason there's low trust in public health is because we've infantilized the American people. We've made something like vaccines a religious issue where you can't ask questions, where it's either or it's binary. When there's 72 shots, there's different formulations to each of those shots. I mean, these are questions we should be able to ask. I think it's much wider than that, Megan. I think what I'd really stress to Senator Cassidy is that the lack of trust is warranted and pervades the entire system. Clearly, the American Medical association codes which underlie our entire healthcare logic are totally broken. I mean, right now the science, according to the American Medical association, which underlies Medicare, Medicaid, is that a two year old can undergo gender transition surgery and gender affirming care. That is the stated medical scientific consensus in the documents that underlie American insurance reimbursement. That should continue to be questioned. This is the judgment. This is the judgment, right? I mean, it shouldn't continue to be questioned. It should be immediately called out as an absolute sin and an absolute crime against humanity. But that's the judgment of the science. Right now. The American Medical association, which is the most powerful group in the country, I would argue, because they control the logic for 20% of our economy and every single doctor we all have is a pharmaceutical lobbying organization by definition. It outsources decision making to these specialty groups like the American Academy of Pediatrics, where the two largest funders are formula makers, and the American Academy of Pediatrics is now questioning whether breast milk is as good as formula. And drug makers. So, like, so like, oh, yeah.

Megyn Kelly (90:00)

And American Academy of Pediatrics is a big vaccine pusher on the COVID vaccine. They were every. At every turn. They're big on the trans thing. They're big on the COVID vaccine. There's a long list, I've learned, and I think a lot of people have during COVID do not trust them.

Callie Means (90:15)

Again, this is not because of Bobby Kennedy. It's much, much larger than vaccines. We are dying as a country. We are decimating our children's future with not just autism, but 40 to 50% of teens being overweight or obese, 38% of teens having prediabetes, autoimmune conditions. The New York Times recently reported on the front page that cancer rates are at an all time high among American children. And nobody knows why. Bobby's saying, let's figure out why. Let's get the nih.

Megyn Kelly (90:53)

He's willing to look.

Callie Means (90:55)

Nobody's willing to look. I mean, we all know it should not be a controversial statement that there are side effects to every drug. We know vaccine, injured children. That's not a. Should not be a heretical statement. They should not be hiding. We should be acknowledging that. We should be working on therapeutics for those kids. We should be coming out with the data. But again, it's much wider than that. We don't know what's in our food. We are totally being misled on the standard of care for our drugs. I talk a lot about my mom, who was on five different chronic diseases. These medications based on 15 minute appointments. It was high cholesterol, take that statin, high blood sugar, take that metformin, no problem at all. This is normal. 50% of 65 year olds take this drug. It's fine. But she was robbed of curiosity, based on our medical logic of what's going on metabolically in her body. And it eventually led to cancer, which is a metabolic disease in many cases, too. We have lost the plot.

Megyn Kelly (91:54)

And what instead you pointed this out yesterday.

Callie Means (91:57)

I'm just gonna be honest.

Megyn Kelly (91:58)

What we got was an obsession with measles. That's. I mean, like, they were really. None of this was discussed unless Bobby intentionally seized the mantle to try to inject it into the conversation. And Senator Ron Johnson did a great idea or did a great job of allowing him to express his ideas. It was all about measles without such small ball nonsense. Callie, you're outlining. We are in the midst of a massive public health crisis. People at home, everybody experiences it like it's just them. It's just their mom. It's just like they made bad choices. They have chronic obesity. Oh, well, I have bad luck. Like what you and your sister Casey and RFKJ and others in this movement have done such a good job of is connecting the dots and saying, you're not alone. Look at the numbers. There are millions, tens of millions of Americans suffering. Someone needs to care about investigating why.

Callie Means (92:52)

I want Senator Cassidy to know this, and again, we should all be communicating to him in the next 48 hours with love and an understanding that I know in his heart he wants what's best for patients. But I will say this. I have never heard the word measles uttered in a private meeting with Bobby Kennedy. It is not what the focus is. There is no. No plan to do anything other than raise faith and trust in our standards of care.

Megyn Kelly (93:26)

And by the way, forgive me for interrupting, but President Trump is on record as saying he's not gonna touch the MMR vaccine. And Bobby will listen to Trump that. He made that clear. So it's not in danger. Keep going.

Callie Means (93:36)

It's even more than that, Bobby. The meetings with Trump and Bobby are about truly getting money to the best scientists in the world and not standing in their way at all to getting the American people the truth. And with no preconceived outcomes right now, science is conducted where we already know the answer. That's most of the FDA studies that underlie our drug prescription processes. He wants true, unfettered science and absolutely not staying away. The words measles, I've never seen uttered. What I have seen in my small vantage point, you know, watching this. This movement form is true emotion around reversing and preventing chronic disease. It was just shocking to me, Megan, yesterday, I. I honestly couldn't believe it. The words obesity, diabetes, and heart disease were not uttered one time by the Democrats. I. I would just say to Senator Cassidy, you've got this partisan weaponization of culture war issues like abortion, where pharma is funding Mike Pence's group to attack Bobby on abortion, like vaccines, which pharma clearly sees the wedge issue for Bobby. This is what they do. I saw this. They're hijacking these issues, and the Democrats are falling for that. They've said the word measles 25 times. But if someone in this country cares about children's health. Right? 230 million Americans are battling chronic conditions, many of them kids. Measles is important. But even before the invention of that vaccine in 1963, 300 to 400Americans per year died of measles. Now, I am not dismissing that, but that is just not where Bobby's focused. I just can't stress this enough. He wants, of course, great science to be conducted on pharmaceutical products, particularly pharmaceutical products created by literal criminal enterprises that have settled billions of dollars in criminal penalties over the past five years. Of course, who would disagree with that? I don't think Senator Cassidy disagrees with that. I don't think Senator Cassidy disagrees with resetting the NIH to understand the complex milieu of issues that are impacting our metabolic, our metabolic health. Health our microbiomes and leading to skyrocketing rocketing rates of every chronic disease to reach an all time high this year. That is what Bobby wants to do. That involves food, that involves the impact of sleep, that involves the impact of movement, that involves the impact of chronic stress, that involves the impact of light. And yes, it involves the impact of the 4.6 billion pharmaceuticals that we are prescribed in the United States per year. It involves investigating scientifically whether we are getting an ROI on the fact that we are 4% of the world's population but produce 75% of the worldwide pharmaceutical products while ranking 60th in life expectancy. Something is clearly not working. And the first phase of MAHA that Bobby's talked about is not having opinions. It's getting to the truth. Bobby understands that there's no way we're going to get past this existential moment for American health without bringing Bill Cassidy along, without bringing the American people along. That can only happen with great science. The best way, way for Bobby to blow up this movement. He understands this is to come in gunsling with opinions. He is not doing that. He's made that clear. And I can tell you that is in his heart, he wants President Trump to win the Nobel Prize for resetting science because science is not in a good place right now in this country.

Megyn Kelly (97:12)

No, no. I want to tell the audience with respect to Senator Cassidy, who needs encouragement to vote yes on Bobby Kennedy, call his office, do so respectfully, don't be nasty. We don't have nasty audience members, but just call and express in the clearest, most strong terms you can find how important it is to you, especially, especially if you live in Louisiana, how important it is to you that he support Bobby Kennedy. And here's the number for his D.C. office. 2022-245824-22224, 582-422-5824224. Five, eight, two, four, call there at. And please make clear, especially if you live in Louisiana, how important it is to you that he support Bobby Kennedy. I mean, there's so much that hangs in the balance with him. And the media attacks on him have been so unfair. Callie. The Democrats attacks on him were so unfair. I think Senator Cassidy is an honest broker. He didn't go to the totally unfair places. He's just very focused on the vaccine thing. But, but he seems to be controlled by it right now.

Callie Means (98:21)

No, I'm just gonna say this again and I can't stress this enough. Of course, as he said, he's already hearing from the Maha moms. He saw those Maha moms behind you at the hearing, Megan. But by all accounts, and we all need to understand this, the Maha movement, it's this what you've been unpacking, what Casey and I have been unpacking. With so many leaders in the medical freedom and in the health reform space have been talking about for decades, it is a bit of a learning curve to understand. We're talking not about the details and increasing of Medicare, Medicaid policies. We're talking about the overarching incentives that are leading Americans to get sick. And I would just say to Bill, Cassie, and I would everyone to call him, it's just there's a real positive opportunity to have, have absolute gold star trust in science for Bobby to come in there and not be gunslinging opinions, but really work with senators bipartisan to restore trust to American science. And there's a positive path ahead. We would love to have Bill Cassidy and his expertise in this Maha movement. I'm sure Maha moms help him get, get reelected, which I know he wants to do. I mean, there's a real positive, this is a growing movement. The Maha movement is the most potent political force in politics right now. The gender gap was supposed to be 22 points for President Trump, it was seven. You had just staggering amounts of independents and young people coming to the Trump coalition. This is a true opportunity to improve children's health and it's a real political opportunity, quite frankly, because I want Baja to embrace Bill Cassidy and I want them to help Bill Cassidy, quite frankly, get reelected. I want to show the Democrats who had zero interest on that panel on public health, get the Democrats, you know, more Maha, more preventative. This is a true fork in the road and we can't mince words. Every emotion, all the work that's gone into this, all the energy behind Bobby, it does go through the structure of our systems. It goes through one man right now, and that is Bill Cassidy's decision in the next 72 hours.

Megyn Kelly (100:38)

Just to make clear, again, the number is 202-224-5824. That's his D.C. office. 202-224-5824. I know it's asking a lot. It's kind of is to ask somebody to pick up the phone, make a call, say something, you know, kind of plaintiff, you know, something that may not be well received, although I'm sure they'd be very respectful there. But it's for the health of your children. It's for your own health. It's for the health of your mom and your dad as they go into their golden years. We need to try this. That's how I feel. I feel really strongly about this one. We have to try this. It is an inflection point. And if we don't get him in, I don't know when it will be. I mean, I think Trump will appoint somebody who is generally aligned with some of these views, but not somebody like him, who cannot be pushed around and who has a lifetime of taking on these industries, who. Who seems to almost enjoy it. Like, that's kind of what you need. You can't have a witherer. You know, that's the great thing about Trump. Well, he's not a witherer. He will stand up for us. So, Callie. And by the way, I think we're gonna get three for the price of one. Cause he's very close with Callie and Dr. Casey Means, and it would be great to have them advising. I'll give you the last word. Go ahead.

Callie Means (101:49)

I think this is an existential moment. I'm not gonna mince words. There are people that are not Maha, that are already vying to replace Bobby, funded by pharma and ready to completely reel back this movement. They are already angling. This is a fork in the road moment for American health. I think we had to get that 2024 election right. I thought that Election Day was the most important day of my life to get President Trump to write the BS we're seeing. I actually think we would have had a hard time coming back if he didn't win. This is a very, very important moment for American health.

Glenn Greenwald (102:21)

Health.

Callie Means (102:22)

And we need to express to Bill Cassidy and all the senators the incredible opportunity to improve children's health and the disaster if we continue down our current road. So thank you, Megan.

Megyn Kelly (102:34)

Oh, thank you for everything, Callie. Thanks for being here. And to be continued. Wow. We are so lucky to have Him. I mean, he and his sister, you know, his sister's Dr. Casey means, who came on with her book, Good energy and then times thereafter. But he doesn't have to be doing this. Callie, I think, went to Stanford and Harvard. She went to double Stanford. Like, they've received the most elite educations. They were accepted in the most elite circles. And they both said, we don't give a damn. This industry, these industries, are killing people. The things we thought were helping people are killing them. And no one's talking about it. And so they've made it their mission to help the rest of us, which is what brought them, you know, into RFK's world. And now they're willing to work for us. They're willing. They've spent their adult lives studying. What's wrong? What is the FDA doing? Why aren't the medicine. The drug companies working to actually develop cures? Who should we distrust the most? Well, how can we solve FDA to actually work for the people instead of just grease the skids for their entry into the private sector so they can build a nice beach house? What's going on with our water supply? How can we protect ourselves until we actually clean up the actual supply? How can I prioritize maha ing my life? What are the three things I can do if I have no budget to try to help make my maha lifestyle happen? What foods, at a minimum, should I avoid? Where can I go? It's not Whole Foods. It's not Trader Joe's. It's the kind of foods make it easy for me. Make it. That's what they want to do. What we have right now is a government that's trying to make it harder and truly is working to make you sick. There's no other conclusion. If you look at the number of things they're doing, and this could be the before and after moment. Senator Cassidy, please, please, please do the right thing. I'll call you, too. I don't live in Louisiana, but maybe you want to hear from me. Maybe not. But I'm going to call anyway. I'm going to do it, you guys. I hope you do it, too. 202-224-5824. Spare 90 seconds and make that call and see if we can get him over the finish line. Thanks to all of you. What a busy week. Right? And we're not done yet. We're gonna be back tomorrow with Charlie Kirk. I will now begin my journey back north. Wish me luck and much love to all of you. Talk to you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show, no bs, no agenda and no.