Vatican Selects American Pope, Joe Biden's "TORTUROUS" Sit Down with The View, and More with Ruthless Pod | Ep. 1068

Summary

Summary of "Vatican Selects American Pope, Joe Biden's 'TORTUROUS' Sit Down with The View, and More with Ruthless Pod | Ep. 1068"

Release Date: May 8, 2025 | Host: Megyn Kelly | Platform: SiriusXM

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Introduction

In Episode 1068 of The Megyn Kelly Show, host Megyn Kelly engages in a robust discussion with the hosts of the Ruthless Pod—Josh Holmes, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook, and Fatima Gross Graves. The episode delves into a variety of pressing political and cultural issues, including the historic selection of the first American Pope, critiques of President Joe Biden's administration, the nomination of Dr. Casey Means as Surgeon General, and a high-profile Capitol Hill hearing involving USA Fencing.

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1. Election of the First American Pope

Key Highlights:

• Historic Announcement: The Catholic Church has elected Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost of Chicago as the first American Pope, now known as Pope Leo XIV.
• Potential Impact: Discussions revolve around whether Pope Leo XIV will continue the progressive reforms initiated by his predecessor, Pope Francis, or steer the Church towards more traditional doctrines.

Notable Quote:

Megyn Kelly [58:00]: "It's big that the leader of the Catholic Church can absolutely change the direction of the church in ways, you know, for the better and for the worse."

Insights:

• Cultural Significance: The selection marks a significant milestone for American Catholics and the global Catholic community.
• Future Direction: Panelists speculate on Pope Leo XIV's stance on social issues such as immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, and the Latin Mass, reflecting the tension between progressive and conservative factions within the Church.

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2. Critique of President Joe Biden's Administration

Key Highlights:

• Trade Deal with the UK: Initial mention of President Trump's announcement regarding a new trade deal, juxtaposed with ongoing critiques of Biden's policies.
• Biden’s Performance: The discussion emphasizes perceived shortcomings in Biden's leadership, including infrastructure, healthcare, and education.
• Sexism and Racism Claims: Controversy arises from claims that Biden lost favor due to sexism and racism, with panelists challenging this narrative.

Notable Quotes:

John Ashbrook [05:20]: "She's qualified to be president of the United States of America... their campaign undercut the notion that a woman couldn't lead the country."

Megyn Kelly [06:01]: "He and Obama are two peas in a pod on this sexism and racism."

Insights:

• Political Strategy: The panelists argue that attributing Biden's challenges solely to sexism and racism deflects from legitimate policy critiques.
• Public Perception: Emphasis on how media portrayal and political rhetoric influence public opinion about Biden's effectiveness.

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3. Nomination of Dr. Casey Means as Surgeon General

Key Highlights:

• Background of Dr. Casey Means: Formerly a proponent of masking and vaccinations for children, Dr. Means has shifted towards functional medicine.
• Controversy and Support: While some criticize her credentials and stances on public health measures, others laud her commitment to holistic wellness and reforming the healthcare system.

Notable Quotes:

Megyn Kelly [16:19]: "She is not pro the transing of children at all... She's not going to be in any way, shape or form supportive of puberty blockers for minors."

Josh Holmes [43:40]: "She was very open about it, but she is so. She's got a little Eastern medicine in there, but she's very Western medicine too, and sees all of its problems."

Insights:

• Medical Credentials: Debate over the legitimacy of attending a Caribbean medical school versus traditional U.S. institutions.
• Healthcare Reform: Dr. Means' emphasis on addressing root causes of chronic illnesses contrasts with the conventional pharmaceutical approach, aligning with broader movements for healthcare overhaul.

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4. Capitol Hill Hearing on Men Competing in Women's Sports

Key Highlights:

• USA Fencing Controversy: A Capitol Hill hearing scrutinizes USA Fencing’s policies on men competing in women's sports, highlighting alleged mismanagement and gender discrimination.
• Brandon Gill's Role: Young Republican Brandon Gill is commended for his effective questioning of USA Fencing officials, exposing inconsistencies and ideological biases.

Notable Quotes:

Brandon Gill [73:46]: "Do you think that parents who don't want their daughters competing against men in women's sports are whiny?"

Damian Leffeld (USA Fencing) [75:35]: "I acknowledge writing that."

Insights:

• Gender Debate: The hearing underscores the ongoing national debate over gender identity in athletics, with panelists accusing USA Fencing of fostering misogyny.
• Political Implications: The effectiveness of Gill’s interrogation signals a potential shift in how sports organizations may be held accountable for their policies on gender inclusivity.

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5. NIH Lab Incident and Lab Leak Theories

Key Highlights:

• Research Facility Shutdown: An NIH lab in Frederick, Maryland, known for studying deadly infectious diseases, was ordered to halt operations following a security breach.
• Deliberate Biosecurity Violation: A contractor at the lab cut a hole in a bio-containment suit due to a personal dispute, raising concerns about biosafety protocols.

Notable Quotes:

Michael Duncan [63:11]: "To manage friends with the two of you?"

Megyn Kelly [66:12]: "It really does sound like attempted murder."

Insights:

• Public Health Security: The incident raises alarms about the fragility of biosecurity measures and the potential for accidental or malicious breaches in high-stakes research environments.
• Conspiracy Theories: Discussions allude to the broader narrative surrounding lab leaks and their role in public perception of government research agencies.

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6. Additional Discussions

A. Public Health and Functional Medicine:

• The shift in Surgeon General nomination reflects a growing skepticism towards traditional pharmaceutical approaches, advocating for preventive and holistic health measures.

B. Gender and Sports:

• The episode highlights deep divisions over gender policies in sports, with strong sentiments expressed against allowing men to compete in women's categories.

C. Media and Information Control:

• Criticism of legacy media for filtering information, with praise for independent podcasts like The Megyn Kelly Show as alternative sources of truth.

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Concluding Remarks

The episode of The Megyn Kelly Show fervently navigates through significant political and cultural terrains, from groundbreaking religious leadership changes to contentious debates on gender in sports and public health administration. With passionate exchanges and critical analyses, the show underscores the polarized nature of contemporary American discourse, advocating for accountability and transparency across various institutions.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Brandon Gill]

SXM.

[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. There is so much to get to today. It is an incredibly busy news day. President Trump announces the first trade deal with our longtime ally, the uk. The president says it's the first of the many. Plus a wild and awesome hearing on Capitol Hill yesterday. Brandon Gill is my hero. Remember this guy who went after the head of NPR with her blonde hair and her weird affect? This obvious, rich, white Connecticut woman riddled with white guilt for her enormous privilege growing up in Connecticut. And she had sent out all those wacky tweets about wanting to pay reparations and reading the case for reparations. And then he got to her. She's like, I never read that book. Really? Then why did you tweet? You tweet. You tweeted that you did. I don't remember ever doing that. You tweeted it. I took the whole day off to read a book on reparations. This book. Anyway, he's back. And he took to task the villain who heads up USA Fencing. I mean, what. Why are we spending time on USA Fencing? Because it's headed by a villain who is making decisions that are actively hurting young women. And all we needed was to get this cretin in front of people like Brandon Gill, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Nancy Mace, all three of whom disemboweled this man. I'm sorry. It was awesome. Okay, we'll get to that. And we Have a new nominee for Trump's surgeon general. You know this if you listen to am update and it's a great one. Dr. Casey means you all know her. She's been one of our favorites on the show these past two years. You know, she's brilliant. She's taking some attacks. We'll get into why and discuss it in just a minute. Here to react to all of this. What a great day to have the news. Line up with these guys. Josh Holmes, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook and comfortably Smug, the hosts of Ruthless. Here's an idea for someone who has everything. Hot salt. Yes, I said it. Hot salt. Exquisite, savory heat. Now you're interested. So let me tell you about Firecracker Farm. It's a wonderful little family company that makes hot salt a delightful spice infused sea. Sea salt. It has the perfect amount of heat and amazing flavor that makes everything taste better. Words getting out and people are loving it. That's because it's made with love. People can feel it and taste it. It's a small batch family operation, so supplies are limited. Know that it comes in sleek stainless steel push grinders. Plus you can take them anywhere. When you run out, they have refills. A little too spicy for you. Just mix it in with some regular sea salt to tame the heat. But you won't need to. It's blended to perfection. Honestly, it's the best thing to happen to food since fire. So what are you waiting for? Go to Firecracker Farm right now and use the code MK at checkout for a special discount. That's Firecracker Farm. Code mk. Get some hot salt before it's all gone. You'll thank me. Great to see you guys.

[Josh Holmes]

Great to see you.

[Michael Duncan]

Thanks for having us.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my gosh. So notwithstanding all that, like the trade, we're going to get to all of it, but we have to start with what just happened over the past 62 minutes on the View. And it's not even one of my wacky View clips for you where we just make fun of Sonny or Joy. I mean, we. We love those, but this is like legit. Joe Biden, who's on. Well, you guys will tell me what he's doing here and I'll tell you what. Mark Halperin says he's on some sort of a rehabilitation tour. Okay. Anyway, he goes onto the View and it wasn't rehabilitative at all here. Okay, let's start with, I guess 37. Is that the one we love the best? Steve, you pick. 35. 35. Why do you think the vice president lost and were you surprised?

[John Ashbrook]

I wasn't surprised. Not because I didn't think the vice president's most qualified person to be president. She is. She's qualified to be president of the United States of America. But I was surprised. I wasn't surprised because they went the route of the sexist route, all whole route. I mean, this is a woman. She's this, she's that. I mean, it really. I've never seen quite as successful and a consistent campaign undercutting the notion that a woman couldn't lead the country. And a woman of mixed race.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Barely spit it out.

[Michael Duncan]

And he threw that one out there, too.

[Megyn Kelly]

He and Obama are two peas in a pot on this sexism and racism. If you didn't vote for her, that's obviously what she thinks too. But the nerve of this guy, of all people, to come out and say that's why she lost. Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

I mean, here. Here's the deal, Megan. You know, they're putting him out there to provide proof of life because a lot of people are wondering. They hadn't seen him in a while. But at some point in every person's life, you. You go from rehab to palliative care. He is definitely in the palliative care category right now.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

It's also sort of funny to me, like, they're so effusive in their praise of Kamala Harris. Like, at some point, it sort of undercuts whether she was actually qualified. Do you have to say it every time you mention her? You know, the other thing is, like, it's obvious the reason why she lost. It was all the damaging video and audio of her from when she ran for president back in 2020. It was being tethered to his te. Terrible administration. So, like, of course it's easy for him to be like, well, it was misogyny and racism. That's. That's why she went down. Because then he doesn't have to admit the thing that he was a terrible president.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. It was my border.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

What the hell was he talking about, by the way? He was like, I've never seen such an effective, like, misogynistic campaign.

[Megyn Kelly]

What the hell?

[Josh Holmes]

Like, that's actually a first take. I mean, I know that Democrats say, well, it's because the country is misogynistic and racist and all those things, but, like, he's pointing the finger basically at the Trump campaign, saying that they had, like, this. Well, I mean, if you go back to, like, the ad slate.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Of the messaging matrix that the Trump administration put together in the course of that campaign. It was immigration, it was crime, it was the horrible economy. I mean, none of these things are gender specific.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Josh Holmes]

All of these things are his horrible decision making that she was latched to the belt on at the View when she said, hmm, I can't think of anything I would do different.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, they asked him about that. They asked him about that moment. Watch this. South 36, when the Vice president was here, I asked her if she would have done something differently than your administration over the past four years. And because of all the successes that your administration had, I think her response was, there is not a thing that comes to mind. Now, that answer was weaponized against her. Weaponized. And there has been some reporting that you encouraged her for there to be no daylight between the two of you. First. Is that true? And do you think in retrospect that she should have tried to differentiate all the wins that your administration had?

[John Ashbrook]

Well, look, first of all, I did not advise her to say that, number one, like I said, I was vice president. I understand the role, number one. Number two, I think it was. I think she was talking about she wouldn't have changed the successes we've had. Not opposed to that. We wouldn't change anything at all. She has to be your own person. And she was. She was. And so I think that that was used in a way that is contrary to what she meant by when she said that.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Ashbrook]

And I think that, you know, she was part of every success we had. We'd argue like hell, by the way. No, no, no, that's good.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

We sit and say, well, what about this provision, Joe? I don't like that. Well, why. Anyway, we worked it out.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, my Lord.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did that clear it up for you? I mean, you have clarity on it.

[Josh Holmes]

Now that Gerald is having a hard time spinning the wheel is about as.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tortured as I've ever seen.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Torturous. And, and on Sunny's part too, there, like, like, she is trying hand this off to. To Biden and, and hopefully he can take it from there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Like, like, okay, she wants to straight face tell us that what the question was, like, what sort of wins would you have changed? Like, like, like that's an actual question you would ask a person. It doesn't make any logical sense.

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly the way that she's like, beyond effusive of being like, so here's the thing. Because of your record of tremendous success, is dear leader like, what are you asking him a question?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

But Joe, Joe, Biden, tell us your greatest weakness.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know what's so amazing? You know what was so amazing about it, you guys? Is that so here she's like, I am not going to make the same mistake twice. You know, I already fucked up Kamala Harris's run for the office, and I am not going to do anything to undermine this guy. So I'm just going to give him the answer in the question. Like, you know. And so she declined to distinguish any of her policies from all the ones that you did so successfully. What's your reaction to that? Right, so she's trying to give him the softball like that, and then he has no idea what she has said. Like, in his defense, it was kind of incomprehensible. But this is not the way to set Joe Biden up for success, because he couldn't spin it quite the way she could. And by the way, for the listening audience, she read the entire question. These women are dopes. They can't come up with their own thoughtful question. They can't ad lib something there. She's just reading what some producer. And I know this personally. I've been on the View many times. They give you the questions in advance. Really? The guest. I guarantee you they gave those questions to Joe Biden, too. In any event. What a joke, right? Like, so none of it made sense. The premise of the question was false. Like, she was giving Kamala the chance to differentiate herself from all the successful policies that Joe Biden had. And then his answer, which is, I don't think people used her answer in a way that represented what she really meant, which was, I think what you just said, something about how successful I was.

[Comfortably Smug]

It's exactly right. And there was. There was one moment where I think something registered for Biden. If you caught at the very end of her question, and she said, I asked this question and the Republicans weaponized it against her.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's like.

[Comfortably Smug]

And he's like, I didn't tell her to say that.

[Michael Duncan]

No, you could.

[Josh Holmes]

You could see his face. It was. It's almost like, you know, if you have a generator, your house and the power goes off and like, everything's dark for a second, then you hear the generator kick on. That's like what it looked like. His eyes all of a sudden opened and he was like, I didn't do that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Loving my eyes. He got the epinephrine shot. Yeah. No, you're. You're exactly right. That was an amazing. They weaponized it. You mean they reacted to the things she said and said, gee, that's going to hurt her. She should differentiate herself because he is very unpopular weaponizers.

[Michael Duncan]

I think what's really interesting to me is seeing the way that. So this is an opportunity to talk to Joe Biden, which would be a great get because you could actually ask serious questions. Because I mean the American to know that's the thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

And their choice is to be like, so because of all your successes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

And then that like their thinking is that, oh, this must have been just sexism and racism at it again. This is why they're stuck where they are as a party. They can't escape the stupid set of ideas that they ran on. And because this wasn't a close election, they got smoked in every swing state. Trump won the popular vote. This is the worst loss the Democrats have had in a generation, if not beyond that. But they're not turning the page on that. Like when you were talking about how. Well, they're trying to say it was a campaign of misogyny. The only ad discussing gender I remember the Trump campaign ran was the effective one that said that Kamal is for they them. Trump is for you.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

That was Trump standing up for women. Right, Right.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

It was the opposite.

[Megyn Kelly]

I gotta interrupt you. We got white smoke.

[Michael Duncan]

Is it pizza ball?

[Josh Holmes]

Pizza balla we.

[Megyn Kelly]

Please. We got white smoke coming out of the Sistine Chapel chimney signaling a new Pope has been elected to lead the Catholic Church here on Sirius xm. We have firsthand access to data because we have. We are in tight with the Catholics. We know Cardinal Dolan, we know a lot of people around him. I'm going to ask my team to go check out our sources and find out whether we have infiltrated the Sistine Chapel and we can give you an advance word.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, it's gotta be the Italian guy for pizza balla. They cry for it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. It's exciting. I like. Let's see. To me, it's the basic thing I'm looking for as a Catholic is are we going to double down on left wing progressivism in the Pope like we had with Francis, or are we going to go more traditional with, you know, an actual conservative Pope who's going to uphold Catherine doctrine in the way that we're used to, maybe bring back the Latin Mass, get right with the messaging when it comes to a wall and immigration, you know, things like that? Let's find out. We're going to find out very soon. It's exciting. Maybe we'll get you, we'll get you a picture of the white smoke momentarily, but let's go back to white, white man, old white man, Joe Biden. Here he is. Let's see if he's doing any better on his rambling. Okay, let's check in. In Sat 37, I knew it wasn't.

[John Ashbrook]

Going to happen right away, that all the projects. The projects, the. The benefits. How do you lead the world without best infrastructure? How do you lead the world without having the best healthcare in the world? How do you lead the world without having the best education system? How do you lead the world when you don't have that done and they're all set up to do it? And last thing I thought what he would do. I thought he'd come along and be smart. I shouldn't say. I thought he'd come along and say he did it. Look, when you have the lovely lady from North Carolina who talked about me with such affection, saying Joe Biden did more than anybody did, and so on as a criticism. Remember I ran as an ad.

[Megyn Kelly]

That was good.

[John Ashbrook]

I thought he'd say, no, we're. This, I brought you this. I brought you healthcare. I brought you. I brought you this, I brought you that I brought. And we. Actually, this is a guy who left with the largest deficit any president has added when he was last time president and cut it to his choice. What's it all about? Cut all these programs.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right. To quote the great Archie Bunker.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, his. His hangers on are the greediest people. They are so greedy.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, like, have you not wanted enough?

[Michael Duncan]

Let the man stay home. Like, don't put him out there. He can't handle it. It's. How much money do these greedy people need?

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, they need to line the pockets of the assisted living to let him out.

[Megyn Kelly]

So Ashbrooke touched on it. Smug. You just nailed it. Here's what Halperin said earlier this morning on his YouTube show Two Way Watch.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Biden's doing this to fight back or Biden's doing this for his reputation. I talked to someone very familiar with the Bidens, and I think they've pointed out something that I'm gonna say now. That to me, is the explanation, or at least part of the explanation, which is Biden Inc. Has collapsed. All those Biden grandkids had a lavish lifestyle which they very much liked. Hunter made hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars. Joe, as a former president, is not in a position to get the same kind of paid. Speeches, corporate boards, book deal. Biden Inc. Needs a source of revenue. And Hunter does, even though he was pardoned, that he's not going to prison. Hunter does not have great earning capacity. The trough is empty. The spigot has shut down. They need a way to get back in the game, to make big money, to have, have the grandchildren fed and clothed and flown first class, etc.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, how do you like that one, guys?

[Comfortably Smug]

Mark is very, very smart, but I disagree with him in one key area. He said Hunter doesn't have great earning capacity. The guy is a painter. He's a celebrated artist and these things sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars all across New York.

[Megyn Kelly]

Sure, that'll continue.

[Josh Holmes]

Certainly that would continue. No, I mean look, he totally nailed it. This has been true of the Bidens forever. As we come to find out during the course of his administration. Things that we knew when we were in the Senate years and years ago is Biden Inc. Is a very real thing and they're right. But it's an interesting strategy, right? If they're using him, throwing him back out there to try to reignite interest in the Bidens and restart the power of Biden Inc. To generate cash, you gotta say something that is like a little bit interesting, right? If he takes that question about Kamala and he's like, yeah, she wasn't the best candidate immediately.

[Megyn Kelly]

North Carolina.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, the other, the other, the other dynamic that is just over the horizon. There are a bunch of books that are tell alls about how bad Joe Biden was over the last year and those are going to be coming out over the next six months and I think that they're trying to get ahead of some of that.

[Megyn Kelly]

What else is about to come out. You guys read it in Politico. They it looks like the Trump administration is going to release the audio of the her report where he was deemed a well meaning elderly man with a poor memory, couldn't remember when his son Beau died when he was vice president. That's not going to go well and they could be trying to get ahead of that as well. Here's a little bit more. Speaking of those around him who covered up his infirmity or at least that's where my mind went. Dr. Jill was there too and as usual came to the rescue watch site 38. What is your response to these allegations or are these sources wrong?

[John Ashbrook]

They are wrong. There's nothing to sustain that, number one. Number two, you know, this is about the what, what we left with. We left with a circumstance where we, we had an insurrection when I started, we did not sense the civil war. We had a circumstance where we were in a position that we. Well, the pandemic, because of the incompetence of the last outfit, end up over a million people dying. Million people dying. We're also in a situation where we found ourselves unable to deal with a lot of just basic issues and. Which I won't go into in the interest of time. And so we went to work and we got it done. And, you know, one of the things that. That, well, I'm.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well.

[Brandon Gill]

And Alyssa, you know, one of the things I think is that the people who wrote those books were not in the White House with us. And they didn't see how hard Joe worked every single day. I mean, he'd get up, he'd put in a full day, and then at night he would. I'd be in bed, you know, reading my book, and he was still on the phone reading his briefings, working with staff. I mean, it was nonstop. It's the White House. Being president is not like a job. It's a lifestyle. It's a life that you live. You live it 24 hours a day. That phone can ring at 11 o' clock at night or two in the morning. It's constant. You never leave it. And Joe worked really hard. I think he was a great president.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's filibustering.

[Josh Holmes]

You look at things today, and he turned off.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep, he did.

[Megyn Kelly]

Y.

[Brandon Gill]

If you.

[Megyn Kelly]

The generator's down.

[Brandon Gill]

Give me Joe Biden anytime.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, wait. Can I just say a couple things about this? First of all, she's. She. She's reminding me of Jordan, Bill Belichick's girlfriend. Right? Those two are the same person in the same relationship in different ways. Second of all, she says none of these people writing the books worked for us. Well, one of the first to have his book hit interviewed, Ron Klain, who was Joe Biden's chief of staff for almost all of his presidency. And he went on the record saying that Biden thought he was president of NATO. Weren't we together when that broke? Didn't we talk about this? He thought he was president of Naito and didn't realize he was President, United States, that is. Where was that? Follow up, ladies of the View. I must have missed it.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

There's. There's something just totally absurd about all of this, right? You got Jill Biden stepping in there and saying late night briefings, phone calls while I'm in bed and I'm reading my book and Joe's still working. Like, let me assure you, the youthful vigor of the man who couldn't complete answering this question. You know, like, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. The guy, the guy's on this, he's sitting next to you falling asleep.

[Michael Duncan]

I think it goes back to the same thing we said earlier about with Kamala Harris. I kept replying or kept repeating the line of she's competent, she's competent. She's so qualified. She's so qualified. If you're sitting next to a skeleton nodding off and you're saying, listen, he works so hard. He puts in these long hours. If you have to keep telling people, oh, he's, he's fine, he keeps working these long, hard hours. No one believes it. And every time you say it, they believe it less and less.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, none of the women on the View that are sitting there are just kind of like glancing over at him while she's given that stem winder and are like, you know, he kind.

[Michael Duncan]

Of jaws like hanging on the floor.

[Megyn Kelly]

And they can't do it. They can't do a live follow up. You know, they can't. It's not. If you just stay steeped in the news, you could easily say, well, his chief of staff went on the record and said the following. Maybe their producers behind the scenes need to get smarter and just write in the little follow up. He's, they're likely to say he worked very hard or that none of his staff members wrote these books. Here is your follow up, you nimrods. But they either didn't put that down or they didn't know how to execute on it. It's incredibly frustrating.

[Michael Duncan]

And, and for, for Biden's Weekend at Bernie's crew who like, handle him, have him stop doing that crutch of being like, well, I'm not going to get into it. Everyone's already figured out that's just a crutch because he's already lost his body.

[Josh Holmes]

This.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, this. Dementia.

[Michael Duncan]

He's got to find another crutch.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, that, in my opinion, that's a clear sign of dementia. I've seen people I know struggling with it, use that as like filler. They've lost their train of thought. They don't know what to say next. And so they just, well, I'm not gonna get into it. Well, you know, well, nevermind. It's better I don't say it. It's like. And Biden was doing that, at least for the last year of his presidency. We all saw it many times. Here's one more. There was an act. They did bring up the accusations of hiding his cognitive decline. Here's the good doctor responding.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, gosh, naturally.

[Megyn Kelly]

You are your husband's fiercest advocate. She's reading a close advisor and got the reported that you created around him and kind of limited his interactions with the media and others. Do you think you could have been too close to the situation to objectively gauge whether he could handle a full four more years?

[Brandon Gill]

I was with Joe day and night. I saw him more than any other person. I went woke up with him, I went to bed at night with him. So I saw him all throughout the day. And I did not create a cocoon around him. I mean, in the Oval Office, you saw him making speeches. He wasn't hiding somewhere. I didn't have him, you know, sequestered in some place. I mean, that's.

[Megyn Kelly]

That hurtful to you when they were describing you as Lady Macbeth?

[Brandon Gill]

Yes, it was very hurtful. It was very hurtful. Especially. Especially from some of our so called friends.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, that's an.

[Michael Duncan]

That is. We're the victim, 100%.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You think that was at the Obamas?

[Josh Holmes]

I was like, michelle Obama, Michelle Obama, 100%. That's where that was headed. I just find a whole thing. The strangest deal I've ever seen in my entire life. You've got a former president, United States, who left office like, I don't know, 120 days ago or so. I mean, he was the head of the most powerful country in the world, the leader of the free world. He's on stage and you're basically asking his care provider how the patient operates, you know, and he's sitting there like De Niro from Awakenings. It's like, I have absolutely no clue. Like, how can you conceptualize. Like, I know that the people on the View are never in any danger of doing anything. Smart. I got it. But like, at some point, you think you'd build in a scenario of what happens if he just turns off on stage and maybe this is it. It's like, well, you got to get Dr. Jill on there too. Nobody wants to know her opinion about anything, by the way, but you got to get her in there to fill in case the guy. The light switch turns on.

[Michael Duncan]

It's amazing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

I just want to echo Megan's sentiment that, like, these women are extremely dumb because this should be the easiest interview in the history of interviews that they do. We all live this. We saw his presidency, we saw the campaign, we saw him drop out. The fact that they have to read from a script about these questions, like, they aren't obvious questions that anybody who's on telev should be able to say without a script.

[Josh Holmes]

It's crazy when she talks about my so called friends. Like don't you think a follow up? Like what?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah, let's be specific here.

[Megyn Kelly]

Nancy Pelosi, Barack and Michelle. Like who specifically are you thinking about? Let's go through it. Who do you feel betrayed by name names? Pelosi did. Pelosi went out there on a book tour. She spoke about this a lot. Why won't like Michelle Obama? They don't like her. So why wouldn't they? And the View doesn't want to hear it. That's the reason.

[Josh Holmes]

Mm, no, no. They're just a full lib restoration project.

[Michael Duncan]

I wish we could get someone to on the Democrat side to write the really juicy tell all that. Everyone. A lot of people in D.C. already know the story about the animosity and the hatred between the Obamas and the Bidens between how Michelle Obama is like very good friends with Hunter Biden's ex and they helped knife each other up. And how Joe Biden has always felt slighted by Barack for telling him number one not to run. But also Barack Obama clipped Biden's pride by loaning him money because the Bidens were broke. Like, this is a huge story. If the American people are so bad.

[Josh Holmes]

So bad that during the Democratic National Convention on Obama night, Biden and Jill went to Milwaukee outside of Chicago because they didn't couldn't be in the same building on the same evening. I mean, that's a story that's worth telling. And you got these four dumb asses that are sitting up there like, tell us about all your successes again.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

What makes me so upset about it is it's such a disservice to their audience. Right? Like it's such a disservice to these Democrats who like, they're owed the truth, Right? They're owed the truth of this because they got embarrassed in November. And if they're ever going to figure out what they're doing as a party, like you actually have to ask the tough questions. And if they're not going to do that, hey, great for us. We love it and it's great content. But what a disservice. Like if you want to know why your ratings are in the toilet, it's because of this.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean think about the Republican Party and the right after Romney lost, it turned into a bloodbath of knives and accuse accusations of trying to figure out what happened. And then you got President Trump out of it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, right.

[Michael Duncan]

And they're they're not doing that at all.

[Josh Holmes]

Content.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who, by the way, the interesting thing about Trump, of course, he spun the wisdom after Romney, which was, we need comprehensive immigration reform, we need a path to citizenship for the illegals. And Trump came out in 15 saying, F all of that, we're not doing any of that. And, you know, that was the beginning of Trump not being beholden to any party dogma, just saying, I see it very differently and I will say it differently, and I'm doing it differently. Okay. Speaking of doing things differently, Casey Means is the new Surgeon General nominee who this audience knows because she's been on the program many Times. He pulled Dr. Janet Neshawat, who was the sister in law of Mike Walls. And my information is that's why she was chosen. I was told that by somebody who is in a position to know. And Trump liked her because he saw her on Fox News. She's beautiful and she goes on Fox. And, you know, obviously that gives you a leg up with the president. But she didn't seem like the right person for the job. First of all, she went to a Caribbean medical school. And I'm sorry, but we all know what that means. Okay. She couldn't get into one stateside. You don't go to the Caribbean for medical school if you can get into any med school in the continental 50 United States. That's just how it is. I used to be married to a doctor. Trust me, I know. She ran City md, which is like, you know, that, like urgent care, clinic, chain, that chain. It's like chain medicine. Okay, so that's not ideal, but fine, let's not get obsessed with credentials. That's what the left does. Her real problem was she was pro the masking of children and pushing vaccines for kids under five. Long past when people like Dr. Marty Makary of Johns Hopkins were writing full op eds in the wall Street Journal opposing these things. Doctors like Vinay Prasad, who just got tapped to join the administration, were jumping up and down about the myocarditis that we were seeing in young men, and she was still advocating that it be pushed. So that's why this woman should not have been the Surgeon general pick and why I personally have nothing against her, but I'm glad she's gone. She's going to work for Bobby Kennedy in some way in hhs, whatever. Okay, so now he taps Casey Means, which I was like, that's amazing. I'm thrilled. I love Casey Means. She's at the heart of Maha. She's like one of the Creators of Maha. She's one of these functional medicine gals, kind of like the Dr. Mark Hyman mold he was on recently, if the audience remembers him. Who really thinks we've been too focused on these band aids we put as temporary fixes on chronic illnesses as opposed to, yes, curing them, but stopping them as opposed to stopping them in the first place. There's this whole group of functional medicine doctors that's much more interested in, in looking at how chronic disease is everywhere and trying to change that about our society so we don't have to focus on cures and treatments, but just wellness efforts. Like do you, does this patient have some sort of Lyme disease that's gone untreated? Is this person living in a mold infested home? Does this person have some sort of autoimmune condition that we need to take a look at? Are they swimming in a toxic stew that we could lower by removing some of the preservative laden food or ultra processed food or seed oils that are ubiquitous in their environment? How can we remind people not to microwave plastic and then eat out of it? Things like that. But like there are a lot of them that can increase your wellness load. And people like Dr. Casey means are very focused on that. Looking at how we grow the soil that we grow our agriculture in and making sure that these chemicals aren't all over our fruits and vegetables that we give to our kids that we think is, quote, healthy, right? That we're not eating fish that's laden with mercury. I could keep going. Like drinking water contaminated with fluoride and chlorine. That's Kasey Means's reason to live right now. I was gonna do French, but I can't. And so she tells this story very movingly about how she was, I think she, she might have been number one or she was definitely at the top of her Stanford undergrad class. At the very top Stanford undergrad, which is not easy. Not easy to get into Stanford, nevermind finish at the top. Then she goes to Stanford Medical School, which is also not easy, and finishes at the top there. Then she gets a prestigious ear, nose and throat surgical residency at the University of Oregon. And so she goes up there and is crushing it in her residency. She is within one year of finishing the residency and doing very well. And she says, I cannot do this one minute longer. There was a woman who came in, Casey had to operate on her. She had been in for repeated operations for the same problem, if memory serves. And Casey said to herself, what are we doing? We're not helping. We're just churning and burning the same quote fixes on these patients and then spitting them back in out into a process where they will not be educated helped. Nothing around them will change. And she found it too disheartening to continue. And she went in to her attending physician and said, I'm leaving, I'm leaving the program. And he begged her not to. This is in her book and she's given interviews about it. He begged her not to. And she said, I can't do this. So she left and she started her own practice and to get more into functional medicine and started thinking about the things that would ultimately wind up in the book. Good energy would be at the center of the Maha movement. Her brother Cali was going through his own evolution and realizations, having worked for Coca Cola and came out hard as almost like a whistleblower against what companies like that are doing to us with the sugar and the food supply and the SNAP program and so on. And they've become very important and essential Americans, especially when it comes to Maha. Great. So why is she getting mercilessly attacked right now by some within the Maha movement and by Laura Loomer, who I don't know if she's in, if she considers herself Maha. And I really don't dismiss Laura Loomer because people call her a conspiracy theorist. She's been right about a lot. Okay, so people need to know that because her, her critics just dismiss her as like some conspiracy theorist. She's been right about a lot. And I've watched it myself on this program because I came to her very open minded. Is she conspiracy theorists? We were all supposedly conspiracy theorists. So what's the story? She's really taking aim at Casey. And I have to say on this one, I really disagree. I disagree strongly because I'm just going to tell you some of the allegations. Okay. She said, hold on, give me a little piece of paper because I wrote. Write this stuff down. Okay. She said that Casey means her dad wrote a pro trans children's book back in 2020. Well, he did write a, a book that was about like a weird, an odd duckling or goose and how it wound up, it basically wound up being gay. And in the opening to the book, he does say that this is, it's about Felix, a unique bird. And he says it's a story for children and adults alike and says it's, it's for. I'm trying to find the exact quote, but it's about, oh, coming of age is challenging for most children. But it can be especially tough for those grappling with their gender and sexual identities. Gender. He. So he mentions it and I've looked at the book, at least what I can find if it. I have like four pages and it's really about a gay goose. Okay. It's like, it's not really about the trans issue. Even though they mentioned gender.

[Josh Holmes]

Doesn't love a gay goose.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's a gay goose. Okay, whatever. By the way, it's her father. It's not her. Like, I don't. Okay, so like if she had written this, maybe we'd. It would lead to a follow up question at the hearings. Like, what, what do you think about, you know, children grappling with their gender identities? That's really the question, isn't it? What does Casey means think about children wrestling with their gender identities? And I can tell you something, guys, because I know Casey means I know her from the many times I've had her on this program and I've talked to her off this program. She is where I am on this. She is not pro the transing of children at all. Her brother Callie right now is out there calling it demonic. They're very close. She hasn't spoken to it, as far as I know publicly because I. No one's asked her. Everybody's much more focused on like functional health. But she is not going to be in any way, shape or form supportive of puberty blockers for minors, cross sex hormones for minors, or surgeries for minors. And if somehow I am proven wrong, and I won't be, I will personally lobby the president to fire her. I will personally lobby the president's fire, which I'm not going to have to because I, I've spoken to her. I know this is firsthand reporting how she feels about it. Okay, so that's that. That's number one. Then she points out, Loomer does, that she never completed her residency. That is true. I just gave you the context. She points out she does not even have an active medical license in Oregon. That's true. Because she decided to stop practicing medicine a couple of years into her private practice. And to do. She has this company now that offers like all day glucose monitoring and explains to people how to read their blood levels when they get their lab test back and so on. It sort of helps more millions as opposed to like individuals. And I can speak this as a lawyer. I passed the bar in New York, in Illinois and in Massachusetts. Okay, so I, I was admitted in all those states. I practiced at length in New York. State in Chicago, in Washington D.C. for that matter. And I wound up going dormant on all of my law licenses many years into joining, you know, journalism full time because A, it, it costs money and B, it's a lot of continuing legal education and in her case, medical education. A lot it's demanding is a lot of bar fees. They're pains in the ass to maintain. And if you're really not going to be practicing, it's pointless to do it. She's still a doctor, but she just chose not to stay licensed so that she could actually practice medicine right now. She could get that license back like that. Right. So it's like. And not for nothing, but all the continuing medical education, half of it is pushed by big Pharma, more than half, probably. So it's like what we're upset she wouldn't go right back into the system that is corrupting our doctors that we're complaining about. That actually happens to be her life mission now to combat it makes no sense. So there's all that. I think that's basically it. I've, I've, I've hit the biggest things. Laura's upset too, that she's a little like out there in some of her spiritual practices. She pulled up her newsletter. Casey Means is where she said. She talked about how these are the things I did to try to tap into the mystical side of evolving my consciousness and being ready for partnership, like looking for a man, which she did find and she got married. Here are a few she said, I don't necessarily recommend these, but these were part of my journey. I set up a small meditation shrine in my house. I prayed to photos of my, of my ancestors asking for support on my journey. I went to weekly group meditations and spiritual lectures in order to tune in with the spiritual. I work with a spiritual medium who helped me try to connect with my spirit guides for support and guidance. My therapist, who helped me get out of my first marriage wanted me to be doing all this stuff. Like, didn't speak to me personally. Like, this is actually like an established lane for people who are struggling, especially in relationships. I hiked alone and talked literally out loud to the trees, letting them know I was ready for partnership. I pursued visualization techniques that helped me see my visions for the future. I did plant medicine experiences with trusted guides and wrote extensively about my experience and insights. And she's admitted and she said in her book she did psychedelics, which does have a way of making people like, feel more connected with Mother Earth and the universe, whatever. All that's part of her journey. She's been very open about it, but she is so. She's got a little Eastern medicine in there, but she's very Western medicine too, and sees all of its problems. All of its problems. And then you got the hardcore anti vaxxers who want her to come out and condemn the fact that anyone is still taking the COVID vaccine. I have news for those people. She would be totally unconfirmable. Totally unconfirmable. He cannot choose somebody who feels that way. As controversial as most of us find the vaccine at this point. So that's my take on her. I think she is the antidote to most of the problems we all see right now in the medical field, in the medical industrial complex. She and her brother Callie are warriors for revolution within our healthcare system. And I am 110% behind both of them, including Casey Means for Surgeon General. Any thoughts?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Like, what a what. What a brave thing to do, to, like, study your whole life to get into the medical field. And we all know how hard that is to do, how much it costs, how much time. Like, you give your entire life to this, all those of schooling and whatnot, and then find yourself at the end of this process in the medical field where you're putting band aids over bullet bulls, you know, in somebody's health problems that are chronic. Like the problems people show up at the hospital with, very rarely did they just happen like that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

You know, it took 10 years. So. So, so to witness that on a daily basis and then be like, I'm going to change my whole life and be an advocate for a broader look at medicine. That's a brave thing to do.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

You know, to step away from the thing that you put your life into, to look at health more holistically. Do I love the woo woo stuff about talking to trees? No. But also, like, welcome to the big ten of MAGA politics.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

That's what it is. Like, this is what it is. And that's how Donald Trump became President of the United States. You know, I mean, like, and there's nothing wrong with Joe Rogan takes ayahuasca. I don't take ayahuasca. I like Joe Rogan. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, there's nothing wrong, like, if you're spiritual. I know a lot of people are very spiritual and they do things like this. The whole push is like, to get more in touch with nature, you know, literally to walk barefoot. That whole touch grass thing is actual. It's real. Like, it's called grounding. It's supposed to according to some counteract like the non stop EMFs and radio frequencies that are everywhere. I don't know whether any of that's true, but I have seen support for it from doctors I trust who are more western medicine based. In any event, just being. Even if you don't believe it counteracts emf, it's of course good for you to go outside to smell the air, to see the sunlight, to take in some vitamin D. That's kind of what she said. She writes in her book about it. When her mom died of pancreatic cancer and she had spent the last weeks and months with her, how deeply traumatic it was and how angry it made her at the healthcare system. This was a couple years after she left the residency because the mother had all the signs that people listening to this may be experiencing right now. Or the family member where it was like, oh, your blood pressure is a little high. Why don't you go on, you know, Crestor or some other statin. Okay, no problem. Oh, you know, you're a little overweight today. They'd say go on Ozempic. Right. Which wasn't around when she was here. Oh, you've got pre diabetes. But it's nothing to worry about, you know, we can manage it with these medicines. And then of course it turns into full diabetes and now you're actually really in trouble and in danger. And ultimately her mom, who'd been on this downward path on her health and it's not that the doctors didn't care about her, it's that the whole system is set up to do this, to just medicalize, you know, drug respond with like, what's the word? Just, just, just with pharmacy. Just respond with pharmacy options. Ultimately she gets pancreatic cancer in her, I think young 70s. And Casey writes about how when they buried her, they chose to bury her not in a casket. Like this is the thing you can do at certain cemeteries where like that's what her mom wanted to be like given. To have your body actually given back to the earth. Like true ashes to ashes, dust to dust. And how it's like, you know, like that your remains could actually lead to the growth of something beautiful on this earth at some point. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I applaud having somebody in a position to be a spokesperson that she's not setting, you know, health policy. That's Bobby Kennedy. That's going to be Jade Bhattacharya. It's really the spokesperson for public health believing in that kind of thing. And understanding medicine doesn't have to be totally limited to what comes out of a needle.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about that. I had family who was prescribed. I mean, you name it. Like you said, the whole story is just so familiar. It's like, okay, you have pre diabetes. Give them this, give them this, give them this. And then now you're dealing with all the side effects that you have an elderly individual who's now on a battery of these medications. It's like, is this truly the best lifestyle that you're affording these people? And how did this become absolute? You just accepted that when you walk into a doctor's office, the notepad's gonna be from one pharma company. They're gonna have a little clipboard from another pharma company, the pen's gonna be from another pharma company. It's like, did I walk in to get health treatment or is this like a NASCAR ad where everyone's got their sticker who's sponsoring them all over the place? This is, this is how we take care of people. And when you bring up Bobby Kennedy, there was a YouTube video that he put up. Me and my wife saw it about a year ago where he was talking about things like the food colorings that is in so much of our food in America, which is banned in Europe, and every western, every civilized country on earth has banned all these substances that are being thrown in foods and drinks that we get that are put on like snap benefits, so that now you're poisoning entire group of people, you're making kids, because poor people, you know, getting them addicted to these products. And then now you're wondering, why is it that we pay more for healthcare and end up with worse outcomes? We really want to continue this. Of the same people calling the shots, then getting, you know, once they're done with their job as a surgeon general, now they're going to their consultancy with a pharma company. It's like, at some point we have to stop and think that this system that we've put in place isn't working for. It's making things worse and worse.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

But we should, like, we should be able to have both, right? Like, we should be able to have like life changing drugs that save people's lives. Like, think about, like, yeah, you know, somebody has a stroke, you know, and they go to the hospital and they give them a clot buster that clears out the stroke and literally saves somebody's life. But like, not every medical Intervention needs to be a crisis intervention at that last moment. Right. Like it's broadening the aperture of what health is in this country and the way we can take care of ourselves to avoid those things.

[Josh Holmes]

This is sort of the problem with politics, particularly in a modern age where everybody's got a hot take about everything. Like, I just don't think this is this difficult. Right. The take that you just had is absolutely right. When you have life saving medication that comes, happens to come from a pharma operation. Okay, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Should they control the entire industry health to nuts? No, but like you're a human. You have rational, logical processes that go into any of that. She sounds like a pretty thoughtful lady, you know, so she likes to go outside and wander through the woods. Well, you know, like I like to have 15 beers and go to the golf course. Like this is normal life.

[Megyn Kelly]

To each his own.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, but like, you know, in terms of whether she is exactly aligned, I mean, her father writing a book, well, wait till she finds about a family of rfk. Really going to hate that. That's a hell of a lot worse than a gay goose, I'll tell you that.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, and here's the other thing. Like, okay, so she doesn't have the medical license. That's not, it's not like it got pulled from her, etc. Like this is, this is not an issue. Like she doesn't, she's not going to be practicing medicine as Surgeon General. The whole point is like, are you qualified to talk about the public health system? And she's beyond qualified. And not for nothing, but the last surgeon general, Vivek Murty under Obama and then resurrected again under Joe Biden had perfect credentials. He was double Harvard. He had worked for all the right public service groups trying to help all these kids around the world with AIDS and HIV and all the things that the left would completely praise. And what did he do as Surgeon General? He shoved those vaccines down the throats of the American people and their children. He just like the first woman Trump nominated. But even worse, pushed masking at every turn, including on children. He downplayed the risk of myocarditis to teenagers being forced to take their seventh booster. I don't care about his perfect credentials. I would take Casey Means over that guy every day of the week. And there's nothing wrong with her. I mean, honestly, like everything that's been raised about her gives me zero pause.

[Josh Holmes]

Zero pause. I listen, I totally agree. You'd be better off having no surgeon general at all than having somebody like the last cat that you just described. I mean, that was a nightmare scenario for the American people and a whole generation of children, of which we have a collective sum here on the Variety program. But this lady seems really thoughtful. I don't know a lot about her. What I do know largely comes from you and your interviews with her. But, boy, wouldn't it be nice to have somebody that's just sort of outside the box and by the way, understands that a key component of the Trump coalition was the Maha coalition.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exactly right. And so without Casey, I don't even know if you would have had RFKJ and his endorsement of Trump and so on. All right. We're going to take a pause, take a break. We'll be right back. The human body is incredible, capable of repair and growth. That amazes scientists even in 2025. But as the years pass, natural healing and building processes slow down. While this is normal, there is a way to support your body. A collagen supplement from Ancient Nutrition can help you look and feel your best. For centuries, people have searched for a mythical fountain of youth. Spoiler alert. It does not exist. However, collagen is a proven way to promote youthful health and appearance. And that's why I want to tell you about Ancient Nutrition's multi collagen advanced lean. Ancient Nutrition combines ancient wisdom with modern science to create high quality supplements. It's delicious and easy to incorporate into daily routines. You can mix it into your coffee, your Matcha or your smoothies. Right now, enjoy. 25% off your first [e-mail] Megan that's ancientnutrition.com Megan For 25% off, support your body and feel your best.

[Josh Holmes]

With Ancient Nutrition, the media is broken. For decades, big cable and legacy media filtered information to hide the truth. But thanks to podcasts like the one that you're listening to and new media around this country, the truth can break through, providing voices and views that legacy outlets we know well will not air. But big cable still has a major way of controlling information access. They do this by limiting access to something called spectrum, the invisible airwaves that power affordable wireless Internet. And by forcing you to keep their bundles, the old cable package bundle, keeping independent media out of reach. Trump and Republicans in Congress have a huge chance right now to get this right by making more spectrum available and breaking the big cable's stranglehold on your information. Tell your senator or representative to work with President Trump and sell more spectrum so everybody can keep Listening to shows like this, the Megyn Kelly show. Go to inthecableopoly.org to learn more.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exciting. White smoke coming out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel. And listen to the cheers in St. Peter Square. A. There are tears. I'm feeling a little emotional. It's. It's a big deal. Gosh, it's a big deal. It's a big deal for the world's 1.4 billion Catholics. And just seeing the emotion in Rome is quite something. There's some priests doing the sign of the cross. Everyone's holding their arms up to the ceiling, to the sky, in thanks and celebration. It's big. I mean, it's big that the, the leader of the Catholic Church can absolutely change the direction of the church in, in ways, you know, for the, for the better and for the worse. And Pope Francis was controversial. You know, the, the truly, like, deeply religious, observant Catholics were split on him because he was so socially, quote, progressive. But I will tell you this. I've said this story, but just the long version is. Short version is like two years ago, I was having sort of a crisis of faith. Just wondering, like, why do I have to deal with the middleman? Like, why, you know, like our evangelical friends. They don't. There's no middleman. You know, like, this is like a Christian, a uniquely Catholic thing. And I was thinking about wandering outside of the Catholic Church, so I wandered over to a Presbyterian service thinking they're looser. Maybe this is like the place for me where. I don't. I don't know, I have to investigate. The whole homily was about transing children and how it's good and we need to support it. I'm like. And I'm out. The thing about the Catholic Church, even under Pope Francis, who was like the most progressive Pope we've had in my lifetime, is they hold the line on the core things that matter to most Catholics, whether it's abortion or transing children. They're not big on gay marriage, something I have attended and support for my friends, but I understand the controversy around it. So there's a very firm, strict moral code. And I have to say I find that very attractive. I like that. I don't like wishy washiness like you get if you're a Presbyterian. Forgive me, my husband's a Presbyterian. My Presbyterian friends, you know what I'm trying to say. In any event, here they are cheering outside and it's amazing, guys. Is it? Now, this is a live feed. Look at the thousands who have poured into St. Peter's Square. Now that we know a new pope was about to be announced, we don't know who it is, but I don't know. You guys Catholic? Anybody out there Catholic on my panel down here?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Holmes. Holmes had a whole conclave among seniors at his wedding.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, a couple of bishops. Yeah, a couple of bishops. Yeah. No, we did it right. We did it right. But, you know, like, I was. I thought maybe you were going down the road of just taking a chainsaw at all the denominations. I feel like we're your guys for that. That's some observation.

[Michael Duncan]

Episcopalians escape. Like, they're essentially a social club.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Well, yeah, so. And that's. And that's the thing.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now that I. Now that you say that I went Episcopal, I wrongly ripped the Presbyterians. It was the Episcopalians that did the homily on the trans kids. Yeah, sorry. Forgive me. Presbyterians.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, it'd be like AOC delivering, you know, the.

[Megyn Kelly]

The. The.

[Michael Duncan]

The Sunday morning sermon at a Episcopalian place.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Josh Holmes]

I love that. I love the pageantry of the Catholic Church. I love that ceremony. I love the white smoke. I like the. You know, all that stuff is. Is great. And of course, there's millions of people around the world that derive great faith and direction from the Catholic Church, and that's something to celebrate, even if you don't believe it.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah. Ritual and tradition.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

And I think, you know, Megan said it best, but, like, a church that doesn't stand for something with moral clarity is a social club. It's not a church.

[Josh Holmes]

Ah, good point.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

And I think you could draw a direct causation to the church, abandoning those core principles and the lack of attendance, especially with our young people. You gotta stand for something. And people aren't going to rally and fill the pews in your church if you don't. They just aren't.

[Josh Holmes]

Plus, the other nice feature about being Catholic is that anytime you do screw up in some, you know, way, you can just go apologize for it, basically. And they give you a homework assignment.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

And.

[Josh Holmes]

And then, like, all is clean. So you can feel, like, pretty good about it after.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Well, Protestants, we have that too. We have that, too. It doesn't require the homework. There's the healing power of grace, which is something which I. I appreciate.

[Megyn Kelly]

You got to give a shout out to the Jews here who. Just one day of atonement. That's it. One day a year, just private. It can be done. Like you go to temple, but it's kind of between you and your God. That's it. A whole year of sin and sinning forgiven. It's. You're good.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it seems like a nice roi on that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Josh Holmes]

You know, you just kind of turn that around in 24 hours freshly.

[Michael Duncan]

I know also, you already have, but have you gotten a chance to visit Vatican City, Megan?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, we were there two years ago, and we went on the full tour. We went into the Sistine Chapel. Like, we had, like, sort of the VIP tour. And it was breathtaking. It was absolutely stunningly breathtaking. And if you don't feel moved, whatever your religion, you don't have a heart. I mean, it's like, hello, there's Michelangelo on the ceiling. And you, you know, think about what it took for him to create these magnificent works in this magnificent place that's so holy and so profound and, you know, from which billions of lives will be affected potentially. Right. That the edicts that come out of the church. And again, I don't pretend they don't have a very. I don't know what the word is. Dark history in more recent years when it comes to the child sex abuse scandal, for which they really have never fully, fully, like, atoned or taken full responsibility. You know, there were so many years of passing the trash. It was awful. But I also don't think that's the real legacy of my church and what they stand for. And I think to Holmes point, you know, we can forgive our church leaders and how they. They behaved the same way God forgives us. I mean, we have to dig deep to do it. And there are kids today still walking around with those scars. But look, I just, like, you don't focus on, like, your spouse's worst chapter or your kid's worst chapter. That's how I feel about the Catholic Church. I don't focus on the worst thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, and there's a ton of reform that was ushered in afterwards. You know, my kids go to Catholic school, and if you want to volunteer as a parent, if you want to volunteer for anything, you got to go through the full day of classes. I mean, you can't just show up to a class. I mean, what they've done to try to ensure that that never happens again, I think is impressive.

[Megyn Kelly]

President Trump weighed in. He's probably disappointed it wasn't him or Marco Rubio. He said, I saw the smoke, but I haven't seen the Pope. He said on his way out of the White House just moments ago. Here's Buck Sexton weighing in. Yes, there's white smoke from the Vatican, but how long before a Biden Appointed judge reverses the conclave's decision. Very good. Well, we'll see. As soon as we have news from the Vatican, we will go there and we will bring you the announcement. Okay. In the meantime, I've got to bring you this. We were on the subject of public health. This is not leading the news on any broadcast, but we have got to talk about what happened over at this lab underneath the HHS umbrella at the Fort Dietrich Integrated Research Facility. That's the name of the lab where they do the riskiest research on our most deadly infectious diseases. Covid, Ebola, all the worst stuff. Okay, you want to work in there? You have to wear the full head to toe hazmat suit. And, you know, it's like a clean room, basically, you know, where you touch anything with your bare body and you're seriously in danger of dying. Well, this whole situation I'm about to walk you through reminds me of this scene from the great movie Outbreak, starring Dustin Hoffman, Renee Russo and Kevin Spacey, who worked in these labs. And then when there was this weird outbreak of this disease, thanks to this monkey, they were working tirelessly to try to figure out, you know, what it was and could they come up with a vaccine. And here's. I'm going to show you the following scene for a reason. Watch. I think a state sanctioned divorce signed by both parties is strong evidence that something was off. Did you talk to her? He's suiting up for the listen audience. Sam, do you know how I've managed.

[Michael Duncan]

To manage friends with the two of you?

[Megyn Kelly]

Because I don't have conversations like this. I'm not asking to take any dogs to be mean.

[Josh Holmes]

She's not a mean person. I'm asking you your opinion.

[Gus Lloyd]

What is this?

[Megyn Kelly]

What?

[Michael Duncan]

You didn't check your suit. There's a tear in it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Kind of takes your breath away. Okay. And then later, he's walking around and sure enough, his suit, like, rips. And that's the end of Kevin Spacey. Okay, so why am I. It's amazing. So why am I talking about this? Because. Okay, I'm going to go backward. Last week, I think April 30, Wired magazine, which is so far left, drops a story. A research facility within the U.S. national Institutes of Health that is tasked with studying Ebola and other deadly infectious diseases has been instructed by the Trump administration's Department of Health and Human Services to stop research activities. The research pause is the latest disruption to federal science agencies after HHS Secretary Robert Kennedy announced at the end of March that 10,000 people across the vast federal health agency would lose their jobs, including those at the National Institutes of Health, fda, and cdc. So Wired is basically like, they just shut down one of our most important labs studying these deadly infectious diseases. And it's because of Doge and that effort Trump. Okay, plot twist. Enter Dr. J. Bhattacharya, who you know is now running NIH, who says, you're not going to believe this. He comes out and says, two weeks ago, I ordered all work to halt at a high biosecurity risk NIH lab located in Frederick, Maryland. I did this because of a serious incident involving biosafety that had occurred in early March, but which did not cross my desk until weeks later. It turns out that a contractor at the lab had deliberately cut a hole in a bio containment suit over a personal dispute with a co worker.

[Josh Holmes]

My God.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Wait.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then the plot thickens. More Fox News reports. According to an H. An HHS official who was willing to speak on the matter under the condition of anonymity. The pause stemmed from a lover spat between researchers at the facility, which resulted in one of the individuals poking holes in the other's personal protective vehicle.

[Josh Holmes]

It's what you get for fishing off the company pier.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Unbelievable. That's not like your average workplace. Was.

[Comfortably Smug]

Was there an associated attempted murder charge with that?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Comfortably Smug]

I mean, that's just. It could wipe out the Eastern seaboard.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, like, unbelievable. Like, think about that. They're like, well, if this guy catches Ebola and just spreads it to the, you know, major metropolitan areas on the eastern United States, it's still worth it because I was slighted.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, some people get weird magazines delivered to their colleagues or they like, on their email and send an embarrassing email when they' computers unattended. This guy's like, ah, you got a bow.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then was willing to send this person out. As to your point, like, to wander around the world potentially having contracted this disease. They say the individual has since been fired. But again, I think you're right there. I think we should be looking at criminal charges. I think it's.

[Michael Duncan]

That's life in prison.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

It really does sound like attempted murder. Yeah. And an ongoing investigation says Dr. J. Bhattacharya revealed a pattern. We have. Oh, wait, let's go back to the Pope. He's coming out. It's an American Pope, you guys. Unbelievable. Robert Francis Prevost, who's going to go as pope? Leon the 14th. And here's what CBS News wrote up about him prior to him being selected of the 266 popes who have led the Catholic Church, not one of them has been from the US While the relatives youth of the nation means fewer than 20 of those men served after the US Declaration of Independence. One prominent US bishop has a possible explanation for the lack of an American leader of the world's Catholics up until now. Robert Barron. He's been on the show. Bishop of the Diocese of Minnesota was appointed less than a week ago by President Trump to the new White House Commission on Religious Liberty. However, today he's at the Vatican. Hold on. Let's get to the part about this guy. Barron has spent days speaking with the Cardinals, including the 133 electors tasked with electing the new pope. He had to be under a certain age in order to vote. Okay, where does he say, this guy, he's going through. He's handicapping all of the Americans. Okay, now he gets to Prevost. One American name has popped up repeatedly amid the gossip over leading contenders. Cardinal Robert Prevost. He is undoubtedly qualified as the only clear qualifications for the role of pontiff are that they be male and Catholic. But emerging on top with the necessary backing of just over two thirds of the voting cardinal electors will require far more than just eligibility. Originally from Chicago, Prevost is the head of the church's dicastery for bishops. The powerful position means he oversees the selection of new bishops for any cardinal electors who may be turned off by his American nationality. It's not his only one. He's a dual citizen. He's also a citizen of Peru, where he served for many years. He's seen overall as a centrist on some key social issues. Leo, there he's going by Leo. Leo the 14th. While Prevost is seen overall as a centrist on some key social issues, he is viewed as progressive. He has long embraced marginalized groups, a lot like Francis, who champion migrants and the poor. Well, I mean, that's kind of what the Catholic Church does. But also like Pope Francis, the Illinois native opposes ordaining women as deacons. I mean, again, so on that point, he's seen as conservative on church doctrine. All right, well, that didn't tell us much. That was a lot of work for very little return. But I can't believe it. Pope Leo the 14th, and he's an American. It's never happened before, guys.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, here we are with Megyn Kelly with a real historic moment for our entire world.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

It's incredible. An American Pope. And also when Donald Trump is president, we get an American Olympics and American World cup dominance. I mean, America's just back global dominance. We're back, baby.

[Megyn Kelly]

Back.

[Josh Holmes]

I love it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I can't wait to hear what this means. You know, I don't. I'm not sure about that write up. I just read like being pro poor and pro migrant is kind of right on brand. Whether you're a conservative or a progressive Pope. I mean that. That's. They all are. You're not going to get somebody who's anti poor people or migrants. That's just not the Catholic church shit.

[Josh Holmes]

In the Catholic religion there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, like, sorry, that's not how it's going to go. And you're definitely not going to find many who want female priests or popes. So. Okay, we need to learn more to figure out more about who this guy is. Chicago. How about that? Chicago for the W, you guys, by way of Peru.

[Josh Holmes]

It's crazy. I mean, I feel more than a little underqualified to handicap this whole thing is. Has played out. But it is exciting. I mean, look, we were all told that there was never going to be an American Pope. Like that was just assumed that this would just never happen. That the Vatican would never allow it. Here we are. I'm actually really anxious to hear from him.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah, we, we were very focused on the ruthless variety program on Pizzabala.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, well, because we loved his name.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

We loved his name. We didn't anticipate the Chicago deep dish would actually, you know. Yeah, we were focused on the wrong pizza.

[Josh Holmes]

Deep dish. You're exactly right.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was the wrong pizza.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

That's exactly right.

[Josh Holmes]

If you listen to the program today, we had a whole bunch of Super Mario audio that we played during that too.

[Megyn Kelly]

Ye. Yeah. It was your east coast bias, you see.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's right.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, he went to Villanova. It says. What does that play into this?

[Josh Holmes]

Like, wow.

[Michael Duncan]

And yeah, I mean, that's the analysis I'm getting here.

[Josh Holmes]

Interesting.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, that's amazing. Well, I mean, I'm sad that our discussion about the lab attack was. Was shortened, but I'm thrilled we have a new Pope. This is big news for worldwide Catholics. And as we learn more, we'll get it. We're actually trying to get some friends from the Catholic Channel to phone in so they can tell us a thing or two about the new Pope. Very important. And when we do, we'll go there. But in the meantime, I'm going to continue forward with the news, which we're probably better at. Let's face it, the Catholic Channel way better at. I got you covered if you want to go deep on the Pope. Okay, let's, let's move on. Okay, I mentioned the top of the show. There was this hearing yesterday, it was like by the Doge subcommittee looking into men who play in women's sports. And look, they've had a lot of these kinds of hearings, but this one stood out because of Brandon Gill, star rising star in the Republican Party. I think he's only 31 years old. He's from Texas. Fun fact, he's married to Dinesh d' Souza's daughter, which is so cool. Dinesh and I go way back and he should be the only one doing questioning. I mean it's really at that level. He's so effective. So he gets this guy who is such a jerk of USA fencing, Damian Leffeld, L E H F E L D T in front of him yesterday, who was one of the witnesses called to testify. And we, we've been covering the story of this young woman who, she walked out, she refused offense a man in her championship. She had to sacrifice the potential of the medal. No one, no one cared. Her name was, I think it was Stephanie Turner. Yeah. Where she got up and she was like, I'm not doing this. It was just this past March. This guy, zero empathy for the Stephanie Turner's of the world. In fact, he's the reason that she and others like her are having to go through this and sacrifice their medals. He is all in on letting men play in women's sports and very against even parents who raise an objection based on the safety of their daughters. Well, Brandon Gill wasn't having it. Okay, let's start with. Yeah, SOT 5.

[I]

You think that parents who don't want their daughters competing against men in women's sports are whiny?

[J]

No, sir.

[I]

You don't. Why did you write that on social media? I've got a picture here where you posted that you were allegedly responding to a parent who didn't want their daughter being being beaten up by men in sports competitions. You said, I'm not going to pull her from the sport and write a whiny email announcing my departure, sir.

[J]

Mr. Congressman Jack had asked me about that and want to be crystal clear that was an inappropriate message. You think that they're callously, sir? No, I don't. I don't at all. And in fact, why did you write.

[I]

That on social media?

[J]

I regret it, sir. I deleted it shortly after posting it. I certainly don't feel that way anymore. And given a lot of the messages that we receive and even conversations that I had.

[I]

Do you Think parents who don't want their daughters competing against men in sports should be compared to the Ku Klux Klan?

[J]

No, absolutely not. And I. And why did you do that? In the message, sir? Why did you do.

[I]

That was inappropriate.

[J]

Yes, sir.

[I]

Yeah, that. You're right. That isn't inappropriate. I'd like to read what you wrote and what you posted on social media responding allegedly to a lady who had these concerns. The only wizard that's going to dig you out of the myopic hole you've put yourself and your family in is one of the, quote, grand wizard variety.

[J]

Inappropriate, sir. And I acknowledge that I said it, and I will commit to never making a message like that again.

[I]

That was in response to a parent, according to you, on social media, who had a problem with this. Was this a real email that you were responding to?

[J]

It was a real email, sir. I did not respond to it. And hit.

[I]

This was a real email. Did an actual parent write this or did you write this email?

[J]

It was written by an actual person claiming to be a parent. They were not a member of our.

[I]

Were you that actual person?

[J]

No, sir.

[I]

You were not that actual person, but you staged this, this whole interaction.

[J]

The response, sir, was. Was not real, and I regret that.

[I]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, my.

[Michael Duncan]

Here's the thing. First off, Brandon Gill is brilliant. Brilliant. He's the class president for the freshman class. But he's not just brilliant and courageous to be willing to take up these fights. He's methodical.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Like, he always walks these people straight into a ditch.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Before he body slams them.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Well, I mean, I gotta say, the Lord has really blessed us in that our enemies are very stupid. You know, like, how is it that you're gonna answer that question and be like, no, I don't believe that. When you know, you gotta know you're going before the House of Representatives, the United States Congress. Like, they got the details. Like they got everything you've ever said. Yeah. But it speaks to how insane these people are. Right. That they. They actually are that egotistical that they can actually think they could lie before the United States House of Representatives and they're not going to get called on their shit. Like, that is their whole ideology is just like, these people are just malignant narcissists.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, so Duckett, you heard the accusation there. He denied it. Yeah. What we're being told is that this guy, again, he's denying it, sort of. But he wrote the plaintiff email of, I'm pulling my daughter and boy shouldn't complain or compete against girls and you're putting the needs of 1% above the needs of 50. Speaks volumes. You're a man defending men's rights. Signed Dorothy, right? That. He wrote that?

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah, it's the email version of the LeBron flop, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it's like, oh, wait, here it is in sat nine. Okay. This just so that he could write back his like, screw you, Dorothy. The only wizard you're gonna be dealing with is the KKK wizard response. Just to make himself look like a tough guy. Here he is confirming that this whole thing was fake. Satnai.

[Gus Lloyd]

Mr. Layfeldt, and I mean this with respect. In your capacity as a representative, USA Fencing, have you ever impersonated a woman?

[J]

No, I have not, sir. Not to my knowledge.

[Gus Lloyd]

I asked because I understand you have a history of creating fictitious female Personas. In one instance, you impersonated a woman named Dorothy and wrote an email to yourself, which you didn't publish on social media for all your followers to see along with your response. Do you want to comment on that?

[J]

Yeah, I do, sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address that. It was a poor attempt at humor. It was unbecoming of me as a leader of this organization to post that as I did. And quite frankly, moving forward, that's not something that's going to happen again. It's unacceptable. And it's, it's not something that should happen with any human to human interaction, period.

[Comfortably Smug]

I mean, this guy, this guy has spent the last who knows how many years waging a different kind of sword fight and he just got bodied like.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Like, like, let's step back for a second. And knowing that all this is going to come out as you're sitting there at the, at the desk, like you are that committed to letting men play in women's sports. Like, you could just send out a press release and be like, no, we're good women just in women's sports and like sweep it under the rug. But to sit there and put yourself through this entire process is an insane proposition.

[Josh Holmes]

One of my favorite little parts of those deals is right about when you're going to get massacred in these hearings, when you're like, well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the most humiliating things that I've done.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

I love to get kicked in the groin on national television.

[Josh Holmes]

And the factional record forever is great.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's watch more SOT6.

[I]

Are you okay with cis females being.

[J]

At a disadvantage if their competitor, assuming that you're talking about it's a yes or no female that they've met the requirements set forth in the policy.

[I]

Why did you post on social media for the world to see? You were asked in an anonymous question which you posted online, are you okay with CIS females being at a disadvantage? You said yeah, yeah.

[J]

I believe it was Congressman Cloud that had asked me about that, sir, and I'm happy to address it. Again, that was a one word answer to a more nuanced topic and I feel like if I could take it back and expound a little bit more, then what?

[I]

Reclaiming my.

[Megyn Kelly]

Reclaiming my time. Yeah, here it is. He's got it right here. He posted send me anonymous messages and the question is, are you okay with CIS females being at a disadvantage? And again, I mean, he probably posted that question to himself again. And he responds, yeah, in big letters. Yeah. This. He's fine. He doesn't. The guy doesn't give a shit. And by the way, he wasn't disavowing that position yesterday. He was wiggling on his most smarmy, like, articulations of it. But he was not disavowing his position that men should be playing against women. I'll give you one more SOT7.

[I]

I'm just asking you yes or no, do you think men should be allowed in women's locker rooms?

[J]

I don't have a personal opinion.

[I]

You don't have a personal. You have a personal opinion on a lot of things, but not on that.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Sure.

[J]

I mean it's a locker room is not really an area where people interact.

[I]

So the answer is yes. I don't think that men should be allowed to share showers with women in athletic facilities.

[J]

I think that showering is a private activity and that it should be private.

[I]

And it should be private. There's oftentimes communal showers. Are you okay with men showering with women?

[J]

I. I don't have an opinion on that. In the context of us.

[I]

You don't. Interesting. That's a. That's an astounding thing to not have an opinion on. I think most normal people have an opinion on that.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's so good. He is.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

He doesn't let him off the hook. Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, yes. That's what Brandon.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like even your lie to me. We all know he has an opinion and that he's totally fine with it, but he, Gil, accepts his lie and then exposes how absurd the lie position is.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Exactly. He lets him dig his own grave. That's what I love about the way he does this entire interrogation. He's not going to let him get an escape hatch and then be like all right, well, we're going to move on to something else. It's like. No, it's actually super weird. Most normal people have an opinion about communal showers between men and women.

[Brandon Gill]

You know.

[Megyn Kelly]

There'S one more. This will not surprise any of you. Watch this last one, and then I'll give it to you. Smug Saudi.

[I]

You think inclusivity, presumably is a big part of the fencing community, Is that right?

[J]

I would say so, sir. We're a very welcoming community and I'm proud of that.

[I]

Are you welcoming to Trump supporters?

[J]

Absolutely.

[I]

Then why did you with your. In your Facebook page from the Fencing Coach, Right. Imagine being one of 71 million people dumb enough to vote reelection for a treasonous clown who's permanently banned from Twitter for inciting an insurrection. You mad MAGA bros.

[J]

I acknowledge that. I stated that in my personal capacity, sir, ever as chair.

[I]

That was from the fencing Coach.

[J]

I have to acknowledge that 77 million people voted for him in re election.

[I]

That wasn't your personal capacity. That was from your capacity as, quote, the Fencing Coach online.

[J]

Yes, that is my blog, sir. That's my publication. And I acknowledge writing that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay? Is it, Is it any wonder that this poor girl, Stephanie Turner, was faced with this situation? Let's run the video of her at this USA Fencing event, March of 2025. She handled it very gracefully. She saw that it was a male. Can we run the vo. She saw that it was male, and she got up and said, no. She said, I mean you no disrespect, but you are a male and I'm not going to compete against you here. She was giving it all up. Look at this. This woman trained countless hours over the course of her life. Years and years of practice and dedication and other opportunities missed. And it all came down to this. And she chose not to fence because her opponent was a male. Was a male. And this guy, Damian Leffeld, who is the head of USA Fencing, is to blame, as are all the board members of USA Fencing who are allowing this. All we need is 2/3 of them to fire this guy and we might be able to start anew. But from what I'm gleaning, they all need to be fired, too. Anybody that would leave this absolute moron in charge of this organization, as public as he's been all over social media with these positions, they. They. They're complicit. They. They share the ideology that seems very clear. And it took this young act of, you know, this young woman, an act of courage, Stephanie Turner, to really turn our attention to what was happening in this, you know, relatively obscure sport. It's very important to those who do it. But it's not like NFL football. We don't focus on fencing that much, but it's just as wrong.

[Josh Holmes]

Mm.

[Michael Duncan]

And the thing is that I remember seeing that video and I was so enraged because you saw the guy who was. Who was trying to compete against her walk over and be like, why aren't you competing? This is unfair to me because there was this horrific period of time that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel of where there was this social pressure of you have to bow down to this insanity. Don't trust your lying eyes. It's totally normal that a guy wants to compete with women, and if you don't agree with that, you're a bigot. And then the thing that was at the center of all of this now, Brandon Gill did a great job of exposing and making so clear with that idiot who's cross examining is it was all about this whole kind of like, virtue signaling of putting these posts out there. Even if you're creating the email to yourself to virtue. I'm a good person. Look at me. I'm with this new movement. I support the thing. Look how good I am of making himself look like a clown.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

But do you like. I'm not even sure it's an ideology anymore. Like, if you look at some of those posts and, you know, like the one that Brandon Gill was. Was pointing out about. Are you okay with CIS women being at a disadvantage?

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's just misogyny.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

I think they actually just hate. And I'm curious, Megan, your perspective on this? Like, I don't. I'm not even sure it's an ideology anymore. I think they actually just hate women.

[Josh Holmes]

They're like the OG massage.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

I think they actually are just misogynists.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Because they're really. They don't care about women's rights at all. They want men to be in a position to hurt them. Like, who would back that other than someone who has deep loathing of women? And, you know, they're not alone. This. This was. Oh, my God, this is infuriating. The Women's Law center, which do not. Do not be fooled by the name they decide. This woman, Fatima Gross or Goss Graves, who was there, she is the president of the National Women's Law Center Action Fund and the co founder of Time's Up Red Flag.

[Josh Holmes]

There we go.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right? Go.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So her foundation bio says she's an attorney who has spent her career fighting to advance the opportunities for women's and women and girls. She issued a blistering statement after Trump's executive order keeping men out of women's sports, which was a thing of beauty. And she goes on as follows. This executive order is another attempt to bully trans people, including children, and misuse the government to enforce sexist gender roles. Sexist gender roles? What are you saying? It's.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Biological roles. That's what we're talking about. President Trump's actions are cruel, blatant attempts to eviscerate safe, affirming and equitable schools, a right that every student deserves, including transgender youth. How is this pro woman? You. You are the CEO of the National Women's Law center, and all she gives a about is the men pretending to be us.

[Josh Holmes]

It's incredible. I mean, the mental gymnastics, it's. It almost is a mental illness at this point. If they've come to this, it's either that or they. Like the fencing guy, heard a lot about sword fighting. Had a very different connotation to what it was that he was trying to manage there, which I don't think he'd.

[Megyn Kelly]

Be good at that either.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Oh, I love you getting that from mk.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Ashbrook]

That might.

[Josh Holmes]

That just cuts the core. That's just.

[Megyn Kelly]

I hope he hears it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I hope he does too. But you're right. I mean, this is modern day misogyny. It just is what it is. You know, you don't go back to like the progressive left sort of support of women or, you know, all the work and the blood, sweat and tears went into Title nine, and all the people associated with that then now take a leftist position that, like, now it's totally cool if dudes can just, you know, completely crush you in all these various athletic. It's nuts. It's. It's a.

[Michael Duncan]

And then they use these wormwoods of like, it's safe.

[Comfortably Smug]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

And it's affirming.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

It's equitable.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Michael Duncan]

They have coded all of.

[Josh Holmes]

Firming is such an interesting word.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. It's so dangerous if you don't do what we say.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. And yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Safe for who?

[Comfortably Smug]

Not that girl who got the volleyball into her face.

[Megyn Kelly]

So that moron who I just read from, she gave testimony at this event yesterday and they asked her. Somebody asked her about Peyton McNabb, who was also there. The. The girl who, when she was 17, suffered brain damage after Spike. So hard. Yeah, exactly. State of the union. So this woman who I just read from Women's Law center was asked about Peyton McNabb. And watch this.

[Brandon Gill]

Was Peyton McNabb safe on September 1st of 2022?

[Megyn Kelly]

It sounds like she definitely wasn't happy to her was tragic. I would argue though, that the answer is to ensure that people can't spike volleyballs into people's heads. That seems unsafe.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Holmes]

She has no idea what the sport is.

[Michael Duncan]

What it.

[Josh Holmes]

What is she talking about? I would argue we should also get.

[Megyn Kelly]

Rid of basketball in basketball.

[Josh Holmes]

Yep.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, that's literally. This woman is an idiot. An idiot. Is it any wonder, like, time's up rejected the claims of Tara Reid against Joe Biden. Right. Like, you've got people like that running these organizations. It's no wonder. Just absolutely stupid partisan hacks. Like, this is the woman that they just made a statue of in Times Square. It's literally that woman. I'm sorry, but that. That's her. Like.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is, like, overweight. They're so twisted. Fool. And committed to this insane ideology. They want everything in the world to change to conform to their ideology of like, well, maybe they shouldn't have had a volleyball in the volleyball match. I think that's the problem.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What danger?

[Michael Duncan]

Just saying maybe men shouldn't compete in women's sports. What are you saying? That just take the volleyball away and wouldn't have happened? Like, what is wrong with you?

[Josh Holmes]

In fact, I think sport is barbaric. And if you all just sat around with me and looked at seance candles for the rest of the afternoon, I think you'd be perfectly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I think this woman would do a lot better if you listen to it. You know, if she looked at a seance candle, she might do better. I don't know. Like, there's something wrong with that person. What an idiot. Okay, sorry, I gotta take a break. We'll be right back. Don't go away. Let me tell you about Financial Yield Solutions, Inc. Known as fysi. If you're handling your own books or have a bookkeeper, you risk inaccuracies, missed deductions and blind spots in cash flow. Fysi's team of seasoned accounting professionals, corporate and tax attorneys handle every journal entry, bank reconciliation and month end close with unmatched precision, delivering clear and timely financial reports that keep you in control. They weave advanced tax avoidance strategies into your bookkeeping, so you capture every deduction before you file and plug you into their network of industry leaders and referral partners for real world growth opportunities. Set up your free consultation to learn how FYSI's experts will transform your books into a growth engine and accelerate your business to the next level. Act now. To claim your free five thousand dollar business assessment, available only for a limited time, visit fysi.com Megan use promo code Megan or call 800-877-4000. Today, trust in the media is at an all time low. And let's be honest, it's no mystery why. We have all seen how stories are twisted, buried or outright ignored, depending on who's in charge or what narrative they want you to believe. But now there's Ground News, an app and website that gathers related articles from around the world in one place, highlighting each source's political bias and corporate influence. Ground News created their Blindspot feed to expose important stories receiving lopsided coverage and reveal how media narratives shape the conversation. And now you get 40% off the same unlimited access to their website and app through the Vantage Plan, which you can use to find the truth. Ground News is independent and supported by subscribers, not corporate interests. Check them [e-mail] Megan that's G R O U N D news.com Megan to take back control of the news you consume, I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people. People like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to sir siriusxm.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com MKshow and get three months free. Offer details apply the world has a new Pope. Well, technically, the Catholic Church has a new Pope, an American, believe it or not, for the first time in history, Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost of Chicago will now be known as Pope Leo xiv. From what we know so far, although American Pope Leo spent most of his life outside of the U.S. including two decades in Peru. There he became a bishop and a naturalized citizen. According to the New York Times, Leo speaks Italiano and also Spanish, but not English. What it is Unclear where he will stand on progressive issues like same sex couples, transgender Catholics, among other things. In his opening remarks, Pope Leo called for the need to build bridges. Here to discuss this historic moment is Gus Lloyd. He is a lifelong Catholic and host of Seize the day on SiriusXM Catholic Channel. Gus, welcome. So what do we know about this new Pope?

[Gus Lloyd]

Very little. You know, it's interesting, Megan, because in the, in the big list of papabile, the people that had a chance at being pope, he was near the bottom of the list. And it's very much like Bergoglio, like Pope Francis in 2013, you know, he was rather unexpected. So this is a very unexpected pick. And I think the world is just now learning about Pope Leo xiv.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, I, I am seeing some chatter online. He had a Twitter account as, as a cardinal, you know, prior to this momentous elevation. And he recently, on February 3rd, tweeted something @ JD Vance. JD Vance had, in Feb. In January said something like, look, the, the way you're supposed to do life is you love your family, your God, your community, and then your world, you know, your country and then your world last, sort of. And this, this now pope tweeted, JD Vance is wrong. Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others. He was actually tweeting an article that had that headline, but, but he adopted it. So I got to tell you guys, this concerns me a little. Your thoughts.

[Gus Lloyd]

Well, in what way? What way does it concern you?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, that he's adding J.D. van like he's taking on J.D. vance about something J.D. said on the order in which you love people and that the, you know, sort of end community would be placed last after one's family and one's God and one's country. Like that's, that's something that you could argue is true even in scripture, and it's certainly true within the Republican Party.

[Gus Lloyd]

Yeah, well, the Ordo amora. So let me just say a couple of things. Number one, a Pope has to be the Pope of the whole world. And you know, as Americans especially, we get zeroed in on politics and we think in terms of conservative and progressive, etc. Etc. So, you know, I think we need to give this time to play out to see. But in general, Megan, I would say that, you know, he's kind of a Pope Francis guy, if you will, probably is not going to be as off the cuff as Pope Francis was. But I think generally speaking, he's probably going to bring the church in the direction that Pope Francis started. Now what, you know, what that means as far as conservative progressive. That's anybody's guess right now, but that's probably where we are right now.

[Megyn Kelly]

There's. We're getting more. Okay. Jon Favreau, who worked for Obama, tweets out an American Pope who fights with JD Vance on Twitter. I am so in. And they have a repost by this guy of somebody else who posted as Trump and Bukele used the Oval to advance. I think it's an emoji. The Fed's illicit deportation of a U.S. residential. Once upon an undocked Salvadoran himself, now D.C. i can't read this. Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet? So this guy seems right in line with Pope Francis from what I'm reading here, Gus. Very anti the Trump Vance immigration policies and, you know, anti wall, notwithstanding the one around the Vatican, et cetera.

[Gus Lloyd]

Well, again, you know, I think we're going to have to wait and see how this all plays out. Being a Pope Francis guy, you know, Pope Francis named him a Cardinal in 23, so he is a Pope Francis guy. And again, Megan, we have to really let this play out and see how all of this is going to look in due time. And it will work itself out in due time.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, well, let's focus on the fact that he's an American and I guess that's a plus. It's kind of exciting.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Very excited. And we'll give him a chance and see what he does as pope and how he sees church doctrine. Gus Lloyd, thank you so welcome.

[Gus Lloyd]

Thanks, Megan.

[Megyn Kelly]

The fellas are still here. Gus actually knew what he was talking about. He was like, citing, you know, church doctrine, but I me, I remain concerned. Anyone else?

[Michael Duncan]

I. So I share your concerns. I did some research and I looked at some of his writing and there's a quote where he says that colonial ideologies have caused us to think in bina.

[Fatima Gross Graves]

That's concerning in hierarchies. Right. And the issue is, and I think you talked with Gus about this, is, you know, ranking our love or I mean, that's that. I mean, that's a way that every family operates. Like, my first obligation is to my family. That is a duty that I have. I love everyone, but come on, you have to rank.

[Megyn Kelly]

But my kids are going to get the college fund, not some randos. And Livia.

[Comfortably Smug]

But if he's talking about the suffering of El Salvadorian gang members, he's ranking something there because I think about the suffering of Kate Steinle's family. I think about the suffering of Lake and Riley's family. These are people who were hurt by these policies. So there are a whole lot more people affected than just one group.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna take a very brave position of not being excommunicated here on the day of an election of a pope, and so I will tip my cap, wish him luck, and hope all goes well.

[Megyn Kelly]

A Catholic schoolboy. All right, guys, that was the weirdest episode we've ever done together. I appreciate you guys being here for it and hope to see you soon. Lots of love, guys. Wow. Okay. What a day here on the Megyn Kelly Show. We did the pope, we did the weird lab leak. Casey Means Joe Biden, incomprehensible. I'm like, there was a lot in today's show, but it was just bizarre. Thanks for. Thanks for bearing with us. And we'll do it all over again tomorrow with Link Lauren, who's launching his show as part of the MK Media Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.