← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Who Was NYC Shooter Target, and New Reporting on Russiagate Hoax Collusion, with Buck Sexton and Aaron Mate
02:01:41
Megyn Kelly breaks down the horrifying NYC mass shooting that left one NYPD officer dead, the shooter’s reported mental health issues, whether the NFL was the intended target given the note that was found with him, and more. Then Buck Sexton, co-host of "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show," joins to discuss the NYC shooter’s claim of possible football-related CTE, how he kept his firearms despite red flags, why the left wants to focus on gun violence now that the shooter isn't a white man, whether the tragic shooting in NYC will wake New Yorkers up to a potential Zohran Mamdani win, Mamdani's past outrageous comments about the police, and more. Then Aaron Mate, independent journalist, joins to discuss how the Russiagate hoax is deeper than we knew, how new documents cast doubt that Russia even hacked the DNC, the real reason establishment elites teamed with the Democrats and corporate media to spread the Russiagate hoax, what we now know about intel community collusion with the Cli...
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- [00:01]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the MEGYN Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the MEGYN Kelly Show. We begin today with a terrifying scene in New York City as we learn new information about the gunman's potential motive. Around 6:30pm last night, Monday, a lone gunman armed with an M4 rifle marched into 345 Park Avenue in Midtown Manhattan, a 44 floor skyscraper that houses the likes of the NFL private equity behemoth Blackstone, the accounting firm KPMG and the management company for the building, and went on the deadliest shooting spree the city has seen in the last 25 years. This is a picture for the listening audience we were seeing of the suspect walking in very calmly with, you've probably seen the picture by now, the rifle casually hanging down on his right side. He looks like he's going for a stroll. The shooter, and we do not name mass shooters here on the MEGYN Kelly show, killed four individuals, including a police officer before turning the gun on himself. Another victim remains in critical condition. It is interesting to note that he killed himself with the long gun by shooting himself in the chest. And there had been some comments wondering last night why, how he had a revolver as well that was found in his BMW outside of the building, which, you know, not to put too fine a point on it, but would have been a far easier weapon with which to commit suicide. But we, I think are getting some new information on why he did what he did and I'll get to that in a second. The 27 year old male suspect is from Las Vegas. Originally born in Hawaii, he drove across the country directly to New York City to inflict his carnage. According to the police, the shooter's vehicle was seen in Colorado on Saturday, Nebraska and Iowa on Sunday and then in Columbia, New Jersey at 4:24pm Monday before entering New York City. And I'm sure our listeners in those places are wondering whether they've encountered him and must be feeling some gratitude and relief that their cities were spared. It does appear he was targeting New York and this building for a reason. Here's the New York City Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch, who by the way, has received praise from left and right prior to this incident. She seems to be the one person we can feel good about New York City government. She's describing here the harrowing scene of how the shooting unfolded. Watch surveillance video shows a male exit a double parked black BMW on Park Avenue between 51st and 52nd Streets carrying an M4 rifle in his right hand, he walks towards the building's entrance. That individual was seen exiting the BMW alone. The building security camera footage shows the shooter enter the lobby, turn right, and immediately open fire on an NYPD officer. He then shoots a woman who took cover behind a pillar and proceeds through the lobby, spraying it with gunfire. He makes his way to the elevator bank where he shoots a security guard who was taking cover behind the security desk. One additional male is shot in the lobby, per his own statement from the hospital. The shooter then calls the elevator which opens in the lobby. A female exits that elevator and he allows her to walk past him unharmed. He goes up to the 33rd floor, which is rude in management, and begins to walk the floor, firing rounds as he traveled. One person was struck and killed on that floor. He then proceeds down a hallway and shoots himself in the chest. Take a look at your screen for our YouTube audience. You can see the dead shooter on the ground here. His final act of cowardice forever memorialized for the listening audience. You see a typical office setting with a long runner, a white runner, it looks like, down in front of the desks, and the shooter lying horizontally across it. Another photo emerged of his weapon smeared with blood. If you really zoom in, you can see it's got blood on the handle and among other places. At first, this is so extraordinary. They don't normally release photos like this. We wondered if it was real, but it is. According to cnn, the shooter had no significant criminal background and, and had a concealed carry permit for a handgun as well as an expired private investigator license in Nevada. Former NYPD on Fox News this morning was saying he had at least two mental health incidents that had been documented in Nevada and also adding that his information was this guy worked at security at a casino in Las Vegas. Again, that's from a former NYPD officer appearing on America's Newsroom this morning. The shooter was a competitive football player in his youth. And Commissioner Tisch in New York said he had a, quote, documented mental health history. Without going into details, again, our information now is that there were at least two incidents in Las Vegas that will absolutely lead to appropriate questions about why his gun license was not revoked. That's. That's not a gun nut thing. You got two documented mental health incidents reportedly out in Las Vegas. You'll lose your concealed carry permit. You lose your permit to carry a gun. And I understand, you know, we can't get them all, but if it's documented, if he's having interactions with officials, with authorities of any Kind something happened with the system and we're gonna have to figure out what. There was also reported this morning, a three page note found on the gunman claiming that he suffered from the degenerative brain disease known as CTE from playing football. CNN reporting. The note reads, quote, terry Long, and that's a man I'll get into. He was a Pittsburgh Steeler who had CTE and died by suicide. But he writes Terry Long, I guess there's supposed to be kind of a comment as though he's addressing it to him. Football gave me CTE and it caused me to drink a gallon of antifreeze. That's also something Terry Long did. You can't go against the NFL. They'll squash you. Okay, so Long was a former offensive lineman for the Steelers and did commit suicide in 2005 by drinking antifreeze. The note went on to say, study my brain, please. I'm sorry. Tell Rick I'm sorry for everything. We don't know who Rick is. The New York Times reports investigators are focusing on whether the gunman was targeting the NFL, with Mayor Eric Adams saying this morning the shooter appears to have intended to go to the football league's offices, but took the wrong elevator bank. I don't know how it is in your city, but in New York, you basically can't get into a building anymore without selecting, like the floor, all the elevators and virtually all these high rises, and I've worked in plenty of them, require you to select whether you're going to like floor 1 through 15 or floor 16 through 30 or floors 31 through 44. And depending on which one you want, you get into a different elevator. And if you wanted floor 44, but you got into the first bank that services 1 through 15, you're screwed. That seems to be what Eric Adams is saying happened, suggesting that it's. It is possible this shooter wanted to go to the floor that housed the NFL staff but didn't press the right numbers, went up to the 33rd floor, which is where the management company for the building was, and started shooting and did in fact shoot one person there. The NFL commissioner Roger Goodell says one NFL employee was, quote, seriously injured in the incident. We don't have all the details on where everyone was, but we know that most of the carnage happened in the lobby. We're also starting to learn more about the victims, including the NYPD officer who was on duty in uniform and was shot to death in the back. Here's Commissioner Tisch. But today, four innocent victims are dead. Among them is NYPD Police Officer Dida Rule Islam. 36 years old, four years on the job. Officer Islam was married with two young boys. His wife is pregnant with their third child. He's assigned to the 47 precinct in the Bronx. He was doing the job that we asked him to do. He put himself in harm's way. He made the ultimate sacrifice. Shot in cold blood, wearing a uniform that stood for the promise that he made to this city. He died as he lived, a hero. Oh, God. So awful. Two little boys and a third baby on the way. His poor wife. Take a look at your screen now. This moving picture of Officer Islam's body removed from the building just absolutely heartbreaking. Beyond the loss of Officer Islam. Bloomberg reporting another victim is Wesley Lapatner, the CEO of Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust. This is a woman. Bloomberg's Sonali Basak writes, quote, she was a rising star in a crown jewel of a business and was caught in the crossfire of an active shooter trying to reach the NFL. Can I tell you something? Do you know how hard it is to get hired by Blackstone for anyone, male or female, and then once there, to actually. Actually get promoted to. To run one of the large groups as a female, no less. She looks relatively young, too. I mean, this. This person obviously was incredibly driven and accomplished and died yesterday. For what? For what? Clearly, she was one of the ones in the lobby. She was probably terrified as she saw this guy pull out that M4 rifle pointed at her and shoot. We know at least one of the victims was trying to hide behind a pillar. Our understanding is they shot the cop who was there in uniform, which is allowed by the nypd, especially with young cops. They let them do it because they need to supplement their income. So totally blessed by the nypd. And it helps keep a building safe, ostensibly because they're there in uniform. There was also a security guard. Both of them were shot. We know that only one of the people, five people, were shot. One survived and is in the hospital. Now, we don't know who that is, but we know the cop was shot dead. A security guard was shot. We know one of the other victims was the woman. I just showed you, Wesley from Blackstone. And then there are two more who were shot and killed. And we believe one of those was shot and killed on the 33rd floor. And the other one would have been shot and killed in the lobby. So we'll bring you updates on the other victims and their identities as we learn them. Joining me now for reaction is Buck Sexton. He's a Former NYPD employee who worked on counterterrorism. The CIA, too, and co host of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show. Have you ever heard of Cara Luma? It's an edible cactus. Yes, edible cactus that grows in India. And it can be a natural appetite suppressant. Now you're paying attention. Kara Luma is just one of the natural ingredients doctors added to a weight loss supplement called Lean. If you have a bold summer weight loss goal, but injections are not for you, here's what the doctors who formulated Lean have to say. They say this supplement is close to the benefits of those popular injections. Like injections, Lean was created to help maintain healthy blood sugar and help control appetite and cravings. But those who created Lean say the rare ingredients in Lean are also designed to help burn fat by converting fat into energy. And, of course, no needles. They say it's a healthier way to lose weight by capturing the power of natural ingredients. Give it a try with 20% off by using the code mk20@takelean.com that's code mk20akelean.com these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease and is not a substitute or alternative for care from a healthcare provider. Buck, very good to see you. You know, the. The thing that jumped out at me and Doug, my husband, as you know, you know him, we were chatting this over this morning, was because it's so odd that he shot himself in the heart with a long gun. And now that you see the note saying he thought he had CTE and. And begging for them to study his brain, it makes a bit more sense that he would shoot himself in the chest instead of in the head potentially. But this was obviously a mentally unwell man. There's nothing coming out this morning about connections to terror or radicalization or anything like that. You're the expert. What do you think?
- [13:19]
Buck Sexton
Well, he's a crazy person, and trying to understand his mindset and motivations is going to be complicated, and I think will be debated even by people who study this kind of mass shooting for a living. You know, what I did was ideologically based terrorism, and I worked the NYPD Intelligence Division, and it was essentially jihadist terrorism. That was 99% of what the workload was. But we would look at mass shooting scenarios around the world, study them, and in fact, Jessica Tisch, who's now the Commissioner of the NYPD, this was now 15 years ago, but she was a rising star in the counterterrorism Division, which did assessments to protect buildings like this one at the time. And I knew Jesse when I was at the NYPD on the Intel Division side working against Jihadism. So this is something that you can prepare for at some level in terms of security precautions, but there's never going to be a perfect security cordon that you can have here. This also, by the way, hits home. Megan. I know you know. You know this area well. I know this area well. I had a family member who walked across this plaza 10 minutes before the shooting happened. So last night I was at dinner and I was getting text messages about this, and I realized where it was. I know people who work at Blackstone. In fact, one of my cousin's husband's works in that building on that floor. And it was. It was quite a. One of those times when you have to sit there and think, oh, my God. And I had to go through and make sure that everybody that I knew was accounted for. So I know this area very well. I know people who work in that building and even on. On the Blackstone floors, I should say, not on the. On the NFL floors. As for the shooter himself, I think that you'll find more about him in those incidents, likely the mental health incidents that you. That you noted. The fact that this guy. I would be curious to know how he was able to transport this long gun, which the New York Post was reporting as an M4, so I'm assuming it's a civilian version of the M4. The military version would be fully automatic. I'd be curious to know how he was able to get around with this as a clearly a mentally disturbed person without anybody noticing. Now, it's possible, but in New York City, AR15s, for example, are all illegal. You know, you would. It's not like you could walk around if I was loading this into my car. I have an AR15. I have a couple of them. If I was loading one into my car in Florida, totally legal, right? As long as I have a legitimate purpose for us for it. This guy, what he's carrying around, that alone would get him sent to prison for years. So I'm just saying he might have been planning this out with some degree of caution because at least until he strolled, as you pointed out, into the building. I think we'll find out more in these mental health incidents, though, that this is somebody who should have been flagged. I think there'll be more discussion about what could have been done to. To perhaps involuntarily commit him. I mean, this is the kind of person that should have been historically. And Trump is on this. And Trump just signed an executive order about this. And we need to really think more about this. And people in New York City. You know, my wife was just, I was just in New York, Megan, visiting my family the day, well, day before this happened for my dad's birthday and my wife was on the subway and there was a stampede into her subway car because in the subway car next to her, there was some complete maniac with no shirt on who smelled like he hadn't bathed and, you know, couple of years screaming at everybody. We actually have to take, we actually have to take action and take dangerous, mentally unstable people out of circulation in broader society. Get them help. No one's saying be inhumane. Get them. But, but you can't allow things like this to happen because the ACLU wants to bring down the pillars of civilization and see what happens. I mean, we have to be able to do things about those who are dangerously mentally ill, like this individual who now took a number of lives.
- [17:20]
Megyn Kelly
They're so worried, the aclu, about the civil liberties of shooters like this and not at all about the civil liberties of his victims of the, of the right of the rest of us to live a peaceful life without having to worry about getting shot in the lobbies of our building. I mean, involuntary commitment is the bare minimum we should be doing. And yet this won't, this won't start that conversation. Buck. You know it as well as I do. Right. Going to go back to. And it's fine. We should talk about why this guy still didn't, didn't have his firearms taken away from him after. If he really did have two mental health incidents with authorities, you know, to the point where it was documented and our cops have already uncovered them. We should have that discussion in this. But that's, they won't cover, they never cover anything on the left other than guns, gun violence.
- [18:09]
Buck Sexton
Well, and as we know, because the shooter is not a white male, this is going to be and has been treated very differently. I know everyone's pointed out what was said on cnn, which twice was quite. Yeah, twice. Which is quite a moment for CNN to say possibly a white male. We all understand that in the world of the Democrat on TV or just, you know, the, the left wing mindset, it's, it's much more of a story if it's a white guy who's doing the mass killing because then you can, maybe you can attach it to Trump more easily or maybe you can attach it. We all know the Routine and it's pathetic and it's gross and it's why those, you know, pre established media outlets have completely destroyed their credibility and are in a free fall. That's not going to stop. So I don't think, you know, there's really a need to spend too much time on, on that aspect of it. But I do think that the fact that this guy is a minority, I saw it reported that they think he's, you know, half black, half Japanese. I'm not sure if that's true, but it's clearly not a white guy.
- [19:09]
Megyn Kelly
Well, he's born in Hawaii. It's not.
- [19:11]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, okay. So I mean, whatever the case may be, he's not some white guy. And so therefore it's not an opportunity to in bad faith manufacture a MAGA connection and make it somehow about that, even though there's no real basis for it. We know that that's what they do all the time in this case. They'll try to make it about, about guns, I think. But the problem that we keep running into is that I think, Megan, if you, if you were a serious person about, if someone was seriously trying to deal with whether it's crime or even mass shootings, but there, there are steps they would take. And in the mass shooting context, the looking at the mental health component of this, which means involuntary commitment, I mean it means that when you've had a few incidents where people are scared to be around you and it's clear that, I mean this guy was. Thought he was in the NFL, he was never in the NFL. He's nuts. Okay? He's nuts. And now obviously he's gone. But the fact that it would be almost impossible by the laws of really every state, almost impossible to put him on an involuntary psychiatric hold where you could really establish what kind of a risk is he to the public, should we really take away any access that he has to firearms? This kind of a problem, if you're not going to address what could be addressable, you're going to repeat the scenario. And I think that's likely, unfortunately to be the case with this where you have somebody who, they're going to do everything they can to find some way to make this about politics in the media that, that they favor. Right. Whatever it may be, they'll attack the disfavored group in this case gun owners, and they won't deal with the reality which is this guy's an absolute wacko and should have been flagged and stopped in advance of this. I mean, the other side of Megan is, you know, you can't. Or a country of 350 million people, give or take, and there are some very bad, very crazy people out there. You're not going to be able to stop all of them. You know, it's unfortunate here there was a good guy with a gun, so. So to speak, there was an NYPD officer on the scene. But first of all, he's outgunned. You know, he's got. He's going to have his. Just his sidearm, or rather his. His pistol against somebody who's got a long gun like this. That's going to be very tough. And he was shot in the back. He probably didn't even have a chance to react to the unfolding threat.
- [21:26]
Aaron Mate
Threat.
- [21:27]
Buck Sexton
And, and even, obviously, if he had a ballistic vest on, not enough to stop the 5.56 round that was shot out of this rifle. So it's. It's a. It's a very tough situation when someone who is a dedicated shooter like this, who has access to that firearm and doesn't care about living. Right. I mean, that's the other part of this. So that's very tough to. To neutralize this threat in advance of any casualties. The only other thing is this could have been, unfortunately, I mean, you always hate saying this. This could have been much worse. You know, this guy, fortunately, didn't keep going on this rampage because it's not like they were able to get esu, which is the New York version of swat, there to stop him in time before he could do any of this. So in a sense, because he's so crazy, he killed himself. And that, I think, probably spared a number of lives. I also know there's the photos of people barricading their offices. I mean, think about the trauma of that, too. You know, there's an active shooter in your. On your office floor, and you're just trying to take the sofa and the chair and wedge it against the door.
- [22:28]
Megyn Kelly
I know those were reportedly Blackstone employees, and those guys must have been in a full panic, you know, hearing gunshots and. Or maybe having gotten a call to tell them that there was an active shooter in the building. And what can you do? You know, it's like.
- [22:41]
Aaron Mate
Well, what they did is the right.
- [22:43]
Buck Sexton
Move, by the way. I mean, I just.
- [22:44]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, totally.
- [22:44]
Buck Sexton
To them, right?
- [22:45]
Megyn Kelly
Imagine that this is going to lead to even more security provisions in. In some New York City buildings, especially those that have high target profiles, like a Blackstone, like an NFL. I mean, I actually did work right across the street from this for three Years. When I was at Jones Day, I was at 53rd and Lex for three years of my life. It's a relatively quiet area of New York. I mean, it's midtown, but it's not like the, the hop in Times Square, which is just a few blocks to the west. And it's clear that this was targeted. I mean, we don't know for sure that he was going to the NFL, but if you just wanted to unleash carnage, you'd go to Times Square, which is just a few blocks west. As I said, you wouldn't go into this particular building. This guy seemed to have a mission. It's not like he, I listed the states he had driven through. He, he appears to have gotten into New York City, driven right to this building, just left his car and walked right in. The, the only way for a cop like this one to protect a building like that would have been for him to be on guard at the door. And you and I both know, Buck, these guys are there generally as a deterrent and to like intervene once something has happened. They're not really like a military guy standing at the door to prevent armed intruders like this guy.
- [23:55]
Buck Sexton
I mean, I'm just a civilian who goes to the range regularly. Megan and I shoot a lot more than 95% of people in the NYPD. And I was in the NYPD and went shooting with them. Just to be clear. Like, I know it's a budgetary thing they don't get. They're not. I mentioned esu, that's Emergency Services Unit. That's think swat. It's the same thing essentially, but they're called ESU and the nypd. Those guys shoot a lot. Those guys are tactical. They can handle a threat like this. They're trained to handle a threat like this. A beat cop essentially on his own when somebody's ambushing him and got a long gun. You know, is this just, you know, they're just human beings trying to do a job on their end? I mean, you know, they're not Superman. They're not able to necessarily engage and neutralize a threat of that, of that magnitude. And you know, this is now going to have, I think there'll be more discussion about what? About having armed security personnel in more lobbies. Well, there was a, there was an NYPD cop on duty here. I mean, you had a guy show up with, with a semi automatic rifle who wanted to kill a lot of people. And that's, that's a major, that's a major threat to tackle for any, for Anybody, no matter what your level of training is. And, and so, yeah, on the NYPD side, I just think that this is one of those times where it was a terrible scenario that there aren't going to be that many lessons learned in terms of response, in terms of protective procedures.
- [25:20]
Megyn Kelly
Essentially, I'm surprised, I don't know what the layout was on the floors. But in most buildings in New York now you go up to the individual floor and now you have to get through another layer of security where there will be glass and in some cases bulletproof glass. And you don't get to even see a receptionist unless you can get yourself through the glass. I can't imagine they would not have that at a place like Blackstone. He didn't go to that floor. He went to the floor of the management company. That's what the cops said. Where I manage, imagine the security probably would have been lesser. So, yeah, it's all about layers, room for improvement. But we can't, we've chosen not to live like this in general in, in America.
- [25:58]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, well, that's, that, that's, I think the critical point, Megan, is that we can't think that we're all going to be going to work in bunkers every day. You know, look, I would say this as, as an, as a former New Yorker for almost 40 years and now a Floridian. And a Floridian who often conceal carries. You know, that's another Good, good. You know, I, I would, I would be, I'd feel better about these situations. Or I think we, we could think there's a better chance that this could be thwarted if you had people with training who choose to carry, who are law abiding gun owners. You know, gun owners are concealed carry. Gun owners specifically are incredibly law abiding by the numbers. And that may be another, another thing to consider in a place unfortunately that's not New York, because New York's a gun free zone. New York's a gun free zone.
- [26:42]
Megyn Kelly
The good guys don't have guns in New York.
- [26:44]
Buck Sexton
This is what I was going to say. I mean, there are signs up. I mean, I've actually taken photos of this. It's so preposterous that Times Square is a gun free zone, which is you can't carry a gun anywhere in New York really. I mean, and people say, oh, but there are very, very few people can get even getting a premise permit is pretty hard, but getting a concealed carry permit is almost impossible. You have to prove need. And there's all these different steps and it takes Like a year. And the whole thing is a mess. But I'm reminded of this, of the old, the quote, the kind of very harrowing, ominous quote from the ira. I think after they tried to get Thatcher one time, they just said, you know, you have to be lucky all the time. We only have to be lucky once. And when you're dealing with something like this, you know, you really want to establish, you'd like to establish perfect security, perfect deterrence. It's just not possible. There are always going to be individuals. I mean, you mentioned the different layers of security, and those are important. They're particularly important for, as you and I know, Megan, like in the media business, maniacs who want to get onto your floor of your, you know, and maybe they, you know, they think that.
- [27:47]
Megyn Kelly
They'Re showed up at Fox News one time ready to kill me with a knife. I mean, it was like if we didn't have security there, it would have been very situation.
- [27:58]
Aaron Mate
Right.
- [27:58]
Megyn Kelly
So that's just one of many incidents, I'm sure.
- [28:01]
Buck Sexton
I mean, but that, that. So that shows you the security procedures are generally working. There's no security procedures in these office buildings that are going to be perfect. And in this context, even if you had, say, the, you know, the elevator go to a floor where there was a secondary barrier to entry, you know, we have this now. It is standard and most standard in my office in New York, where you have to badge in. Okay, well, this guy, if he gets in the elevator bank, he can take somebody. He has a gun. He takes somebody and say, all right, you're going to open this for me now.
- [28:27]
Aaron Mate
Right?
- [28:27]
Buck Sexton
I mean, it's not, there's, there's ways that you can get around this, right? It's not foolproof. There's always layers of. Or, or. I mean, I don't know if the glass or the doors are going to be ballistic, but if you shoot a glass door with enough 5, 5, 6 rounds, guess what? It's gonna, it's gonna break apart. So, you know, even if it's supposedly bulletproof. So.
- [28:43]
Megyn Kelly
But isn't it more about. Isn't it. You tell me. Because when, when, you know, there was a very dark period in my life where a different guy was stalking me. And the one lesson I learned more than any other from all the security we had in our lives back then was it's all about putting layers between you and the bad guy.
- [28:57]
Buck Sexton
Yes. Oh, absolutely.
- [28:58]
Megyn Kelly
Just to slow the person down. So it's not that you're assuming they're gonna be foolproof. It's just assuming the more layers, the more I can slow them down. So if you had cops, if you had civilians in the lobby who actually were carrying, maybe one would have gotten a shot off against the guy. If you had, you know, that sort of security on the floors, maybe there could have been more advanced warning. And again, we are lucky it wasn't worse than it was. I hate to say it with people dead, but that. But I don't know. In America, we generally just don't live like that. We generally live as. It's a free country, and we know there's gonna be some nut cases. And sadly, we've gotten to assume because of the aclu that they will be roaming around our loved ones.
- [29:36]
Aaron Mate
Yes.
- [29:36]
Megyn Kelly
Because their civil liberties are what is most important.
- [29:39]
Buck Sexton
Well, that's what I think we're doing, is we're sitting here and we're going through the layers of security. And what you said is absolutely correct, which is that at every. And this was true. So. So for people to understand nypd, and it may have switched a little bit, but when I was there, the breakdown was there was Intelligence Division, which was doing essentially, intel gathering, often using undercovers and sources of active plots against the city of New York. And then there was something else called ctd, which was Counterterrorism Division. The Counterterrorism Division. And I know it's confusing because their missions cross over, but ctd, which is where now Commissioner Tisch worked when I was there, they do things like, how secure is the building? What's the blast radius? If somebody parks a car bomb in front of this federal building or that office building or whatever. They looked at all these layers, did assessments, did security. So that was the mission, because they recognized New York City is such a target.
- [30:34]
Megyn Kelly
That's why you have those huge planters out in front of places like the jcc. So someone can't ram the building with.
- [30:40]
Buck Sexton
A car bomb, or somebody can't do what We've seen where these vehicle attacks, which unfortunately in the past have been, you know, horrifically high body counts, where somebody will just get into a, you know, a vehicle and start mowing people down. They'll put barriers in the way. Again, the barriers don't mean that some maniac can't run over one or two people. The barriers mean some maniac hopefully can't run over 50 or 100.
- [30:59]
Aaron Mate
Right.
- [30:59]
Buck Sexton
So this is. It's all about mitigation and it's about layers. And that is how the professionals do these security assessments in these buildings. There's different groups, you Know, some of them are led by former NYPD commission commissioners and that is their job where they go in and they look at security. I'm just looking at what happened here in this instance and saying there's not a, I'm not aware of, at least from the reporting so far, a gaping security vulnerability or a lack of law enforcement response.
- [31:29]
Aaron Mate
Right.
- [31:29]
Buck Sexton
Or a. Too slow.
- [31:30]
Megyn Kelly
No, no, I get it. This is one of those, I will say it's just one of these bad times. It's jarring to see the guy on the, on the walk in shot with the long gun down at his right side, walking across the plaza to enter the building. And if you zoom out, you can see civilians just walking about. They, they clearly don't see that he has a gun on the side of his body because otherwise there would have been some sort of a panic. They would have screamed, gun. You know, something would have gotten. You can see, look at these people. At least these two guys in the back on the top of the shot, they can't see. I don't know whether on this guy's right side or whether it's one of those situations, Buck, where like you, you don't believe you're seeing what you think you're seeing. You know, I've, I, you're like, there's no way that's. And you don't want to be like that hysterical person. You know, like I reported some guy had a long gun when really it was just like, I don't know, an umbrella. You know, like New Yorkers, our instinct is much more to be like, everything's fine, move on.
- [32:26]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, there must be something else. It's a toy. It's a paintball gun. It's a gag. It's a joke. I mean, this is where your brain goes. Unless you're somebody who is trained and looking for these kinds of things. And like I said, I mean, even, even one NYPD officer. This is, this is why I think, you know, in some cases you've had in these, in the school shooting situations, for example, it's clear that the school shooter had. First of all, this was clear with a terrible Tennessee, the Nashville school shooting, that the shooter was looking for a place where there was nobody who was going to have a gun. Right. We know that schools are generally gun free zones, which is also preposterous because the bad guys don't care about those laws. But there are armed security at some schools. That shooter looked for a school where there was no armed security. So they would have total freedom of movement, no chance that anybody would stop them. You know, in this instance you have an NYPD guy in the lobby and you know that that wasn't, that wasn't sufficient to, to stop this threat. And you know, no, no obviously fault of that officers who died a hero and, and you know he was there really as, as you pointed out, it's more of a deterrent and it's also more to deal with some maniac who wants to run upstairs and you know, cause problems, maybe has a knife. But when somebody shows up and they're a committed shooter and they have a semi automatic rifle and they, this guy obviously knew and knew how to, knew how to you know, work, work the gun and understood enough of it to do some real damage. That's going to be a very challenging thing for any, you know, any security assessment to, to be able to handle. So I know it's unsatisfying to anybody who wants to hear this won't happen again that there's not really a lot that could have been done differently here in the moment to stop this. But short of New York City changing its laws so you have people that can conceal carry the general population, you know, the, the good guys and gals with a gun. Short of putting really subs, I mean it's just not possible. You're not going to have.
- [34:18]
Megyn Kelly
Well look, you could. If I'm running Apollo, they have more money than God or Blackstone more money than God. I'm saying we are going to put an armed guard at the entrance to the building to watch out for something like this in addition to another armed guard inside who watches like the people once they're already in the building. But nine times out of 10, somebody who's a shooter like this doesn't walk in, into a building like this with it totally exposed. I mean they just I think anticipate something will happen to them. It would be more consistent sealed. And look, the worst school shooting in American history was at Virginia Tech. And that guy did not use an AR15. He used semi automatic handguns. Yeah. So I mean it's like we can do all we want to protect.
- [34:58]
Buck Sexton
Oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just.
- [35:00]
Megyn Kelly
I do want to say this. No, I know you're not saying that. I just, I do want to point out that to the point we're making which is it's a free country and sadly this kind of thing happens. His home state, adopted home state Nevada had another shooting not involving him. Reno. Six people were shot, three are dead. It was outside of A casino. And it happened yesterday. Three people killed, several others injured in a shooting outside a casino in Reno on Monday morning. It happened around 7:25am in the valet area outside of the Grand Sierra Resort and Casino. The suspect, an adult man, was found within minutes. He's been taken to a hospital following an officer involved shooting. The shooter walked into the parking lot in the valet area of the hotel and casino, pulled out a handgun and which initially malfunctioned. But after he made it operable, he began firing at victims. He had multiple magazines. He ran through the parking lot, said police, where he exchanged gunfire with a security guard. Almost nobody's reporting on this because it didn't happen in New York City, which is the media hub. They don't care when it happens with a Nevada man who actually lives in Nevada. You see, that doesn't matter to the acelo media. What matters is themselves and their safety. That's why they're super interested in this guy. But you know, there's. What are you gonna do? Like, that's okay, that's. You're in a parking lot, leaving a casino where you had a good time with your friends and family, and this guy pulls out a gun. Not for nothing, but all those security guards I work with over the years have told me the best thing, the number one thing. This applies to everybody that you can do to protect yourself. Get a dog. Get a dog. They all say that, like there's no better deterrent against somebody coming into your home and potentially your workplace than, you know, a mean looking guard dog. Now, I don't have a mean looking guard. I have a big galoot named Stradwick who is more likely to lick your face and eat your snack. But a dog in general is a deterrent against someone looking to enter your home and do harm to you. And they don't know that it's a big galoot. In most cases, they hear barking and.
- [36:57]
Buck Sexton
They think the barking is what matters. You're not looking for, you know, you don't have a malinois with titanium inserts in your house, but you don't need one. I mean, you can just have a dog that lets everybody know that hey, there's a bad guy around here. Because people element of. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, element of surprise for bad guys is critical. And if all of a sudden people know they're at the door, or in this case, if all of a sudden people know that a maniac with a gun is entering a lobby in advance, then people can take evasive action or even counter the threat much more easily. So it's all right, Buck.
- [37:30]
Megyn Kelly
Let's spend a minute on Zoram Mamdani, who's likely to be the next mayor of New York, and how this effects. I'm interested in the politics of it. I am, but I'm. I'm really more interested in just the utter failure that's coming our way in Manhattan, because this is a defund the police guy. And he has the nerve. He has the nerve yesterday to start tweeting. I honestly, I think it would have been better if he didn't. He's trying to look like he cares about the cops. First he tweeted, oh, I'm so sorry. He's in critical condition because there were reports early on that the cop was. And then. Then when he learned that he had died, he sent out, you know, the appropriate, I'm very sorry he was a hero kind of tweet. This. This guy, Zora Mandami, if he's elected, will get cops and other New York civilians killed with his policies. He wants to defund when challenged by somebody who said, oh, when we say defund, we don't really mean defund. We mean, like, reallocate. And he said, no, we mean defund. The police are racist, anti queer, and endanger Americans. And so now he tried to soften it when he was running for the actual mayoral nomination because he was running against people who were not for defunding the cops. But this guy is still saying he wants domestic violence victims to be treated with social workers showing up and not cops and so on. I'm incensed by it. I do not believe him that his heart is totally in the right place when it comes to our New York City cops. I believed him the first time that he thinks they're racist and ought to be defunded. So what's coming our way in New York if this guy wins, as he's overwhelmingly likely to do?
- [39:01]
Buck Sexton
What's coming your way is people like my family who still live in Manhattan. At least half of my family, my immediate family does, are thinking about moving, which even didn't happen during COVID or at least, I mean, I moved because of COVID but my mom, dad, and my sister decided that they were going to stick it out in New York City, but they're not sure they can stick out a Mamdani administration. This is. It's troubling because when you look at the numbers, people, and this is a frustration for me, Megan, people will say, well, New York is getting what it deserves, or New York is getting what, what it, you know, what it wants. And it's actually a very small percentage of the 8.5 million residents of New York who want this guy to be mayor. To be clear, it's depending on, and I know we haven't had the general election and maybe he won't win, but even just based on what just happened in this primary, you're going to end up having like 20% or 15% of New Yorkers actually end up voting for this guy. Maybe it's going to be a very small. Now you can blame people who don't get off their butts and get up and vote, you know, in the sense that they should have their voices heard here and not vote for, for this guy. But the, the disaster that is the Mamdani administration, I think is unfortunately going to result in not only a lot of really good people fleeing the city, but a lot of people who, who stay behind suffering. When you pointed out what would happen on the, on the crime front, and one of the things that I find most frustrating about his philosophy, if you can call it that, or his, his communism is he is, he is appealing to people mostly on the New York is really expensive line, right? That's the, the cop stuff. Yeah, he's anti cop. And there's a, there's a, maybe a 10 to 15% of the new York City electorate that are far left Democrats that like that anti cop stuff. But really he's appealing to people on the New York is so expensive you can't afford the rent. I'm going to make it cheaper for you. And what's so maddening about this is that the approach that someone like a Mamdani takes is only going to make it worse. And every time this has been shown anywhere, I mean, you pick the case, you show me the case study. When somebody comes in and decides to play God in the market, right. They decide what supply and demand really is. They decide what the price should be. Price controls. Price controls is why Venezuela went from one of the richest countries in the Western hemisphere to a impoverished hellhole with a Level 4 advisory from the State Department telling Americans not to go. That only took about 20 years for that to happen. But price controls were a big part of that. The idea that Mamdani is going to come in and have city like have all this housing built for people, first of all, is it going to be housing anybody's going to want to live in? What makes him think he knows how to get this done? He has no managerial experience whatsoever. And if you're going to set artificial rates for what people would pay for this housing or just add it to the city's already massive budget for, for what is essentially, you know, welfare, housing, the projects. You're going to put a. Blow a giant hole through the city budget. You're going to have to raise taxes on people and cause even more people to leave. And it creates this vortex of destruction. And how people can't see that is, is enraging honestly at this point, how any New Yorker, you know, there's some people who, if they tell me they're going to vote for the Megan, I say, all right, I disagree. But like, I get it. You know, you're like so into being, I don't know, pro choice or you're, you're so opposed to the Republican foreign policy. You know, I disagree with you, but I don't think you're insane. Voting for Mamdani is insane. It's going to make it worse for everybody. It actually would make it worse for all the residents of New York City. There will be no.
- [42:42]
Megyn Kelly
I really hope people reconsider now that this has happened. I really hope, you know, they take this as the reminder they needed that safety and security in New York are an absolute essential or New York doesn't exist in the way that we knew it. Tourism dies. It's a critical industry of New Yorker. Eight million New Yorkers live there full time. But 20 million New Yorkers, about 22 come in and fill the city on a workday. And that needs to be able to go on without people fear, fearing for their lives. And you take away the cops, you defund the cops in any meaningful way and it changes, it changes dramatically. All right, I want to move on to Cincinnati in the time we have left. So Cincinnati had this terrible fight which we showed yesterday where we, we came in and pointing out we didn't know where in the dispute this was, but what we saw was a group of black people beating the hell out of a white man, a white woman, and then a second white man in three different, though it seems, if not related, at least closely located spots. In this first video, the white man strikes first. He reaches across and appears to smack a black man. And then this mob of black people beats the living daylights out of the white man over and over and over. And it's obviously disproportionate and it's awful. And it's women and men who are kicking him and stomping on his head. And then a white woman tries to save him. At least that's what the report was. But she appears to be one of the only ones trying to intervene. And she gets the shit kicked out of her by men and women to the point where the Vice President of the United States commented on what kind of a man would punch a woman in the face like this. And then there's another white man who gets attacked. Okay, so that's what happened in Cincinnati yesterday. There were no cops. Now, the Cincinnati police chief, whose name is Teresa Fiji is how you pronounce her last name. She's the first woman to lead the department. She took over in January 2023. She would like us all to know that we've gotten it all wrong, that we journalists and social media people are the ones really responsible for making this into a thing. And then when asked by a journalist who was there, how exactly have we misrepresented anything that happened? We're totally open minded. You know what, tell us, was there a mob beating up the first Mob first. Like, tell what happened that we didn't. No answers. Absolutely no additional information. It appears this woman is just making it up, trying to shame journalists out of covering this story. She's a woke warrior. She's already been sued by four white cops in her department for discriminating against white men. The only one they say she will promote are either women or minorities. And this is her message for the rest of us in the wake of her city's embarrassment. Watch social media and journalism and the role it plays in this incident. And yes, guys, that's you. That is you. At times, social media and mainstream media and their commentaries are misrepresentation of the circumstances surrounding any given event. Because what happens that social media post and your coverage of it distorts the content of what actually happened and it makes our job more difficult. What is Apple was distorted, I think by the irresponsibility with social media is. It just shows one side of the equation quite frequently without context, without factual context. And then people run with that and then it grows legs and it becomes something bigger that we then have to try to manage as part of the investigation. What context would make a mob of people in the dozens kicking the living shit out of three people in separate incidents? Again, we don't know whether they were related or not better or. Okay, she. She failed to tell us.
- [46:48]
Buck Sexton
I, I hadn't seen that clip until you just played it now. And, and I just. It's good to know that the police commissioner or the police chief of Cincinnati is an absolute moron. That that's helpful going forward. To understand how this is going to be covered and talked about. That was shocking. I. I can't believe. I can't believe that that person's in charge of anything, never mind men and women who are carrying firearms and trying to keep people safe. That's really appalling. But this is, unfortunately, the reality of a lot of city bureaucracies. They've elevated. You know, we're allowed to talk about this now, and we, some of us been talking about it for a long time. Megan, you have. I have many others. But I mean, broadly in the culture, a lot of people were elevated under DEI principles, especially in large cities, in the bureaucracy, whether it's the police commissioner, the mayor, et cetera. For. Yeah, yeah.
- [47:38]
Megyn Kelly
For.
- [47:39]
Buck Sexton
For the characteristics of, you know, skin color and gender. And that results in what we just saw there, which is people who are completely unqualified. So I don't even know what she thinks she's saying other than clearly she's a lib and she thinks that there's some story that she doesn't want coming out of this, but there's no context. That's the critical point. And I did see a lot of comments online. You probably saw this, too. Well, what did they. What the guy say before. This is also something we might have to address a little bit more as a society. I don't care what he said before.
- [48:11]
Megyn Kelly
I don't care.
- [48:12]
Buck Sexton
There's not some word. There's not some word, any word that allows people to say we're going to engage in mob violence and maybe stomp you to death on the street. There's no word. Doesn't exist. Sorry. So, you know, that's another part of the conversation that I think people need to own up to and have more frequently now, which is, you know, you can't just attack somebody because you don't like what they say. If, in fact, that's what happened. We don't even know.
- [48:33]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And there she is in front of the very journalists she say or says are so evil, and they're asking, what did we miss? Please tell us. And you heard her inane, empty answer. She seems to just be angry that they're showing the video, which doesn't reflect well in her city, or for that matter, the cops who were not called until well into it, because apparently the Bywatcher, the bystanders, were enjoying watching the fight more than they cared about the lives being risked. Buck Sexton, always a pleasure, my friend. Thanks for being here with your expertise. Coming up next, we're going to dig into the latest in the Russiagate story with an independent journalist who's been covering it extensively for years. You've heard his name mentioned repeatedly by Matt Taibi. Well, we wanted to meet him and he's here. Next. If you are stressed about back taxes, maybe you missed the April deadline or your books are a mess. Don't wait. The IRS is cracking down. Penalties add up fast. 5% per month, up to 25% just for not filing. But there's help. Tax Network USA can take the burden off your shoulders and stop the spiral before it gets worse. They have helped thousands of Americans. Whether you're an employee, a small business owner, or you haven't filed in years. Messy books, not a problem. They have seen it all. Tax Network USA has direct access to powerful IRS programs and expert negotiators on your side. You're going to get a free consultation and if you qualify, they may even be able to reduce or eliminate what you owe. I like the eliminate word. More importantly, they will help protect you from wage garnishments or bank levies. So don't wait for the next scary IRS letter. Get ahead of it. Call 800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan to talk to a real expert at Tax Network USA. Take the pressure off. Let Tax Network USA handle your tax issues. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Now, if there's one thing the left does not want to talk about these days, it is the Russiagate hoax that was perpetrated against Donald Trump. People like the Pod, Save America Bros. Even National Review. Our friends over there dismiss the latest revelations by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard as nothing new, that there's no scandal that warrants an investigation, and even go so far as to say this is all just a distraction from either the Epstein scandal or something else. But there's absolutely no there there. Well, there is there there. There is there there. But our next guest is a glaring exception to the rule of these leftist naysayers. Aaron Mate is an independent journalist who has been covering the story from the beginning. He's been sharply critical of the actions the Obama administration took to investigate claims of Russian election interference. You may remember his name from last week when Matt Taibbi mentioned he was one of the reporters who cast significant doubt on that Senate Intel Committee report that everyone on the left, including President Obama, has cited to defend their actions. You remember they're saying like in response to Tulsi, hey, you know, the Russians did interfere. We didn't misstate anything. And you need only look at Marco Rubio's Senate Intel Committee report to know that we're telling the truth. Why would he say Russia interfered to help Trump if it weren't true? Well, mate has a different view. He previously worked for left wing organizations, by the way, like Democracy Now, Vice News, but now he's an independent journalist where he covers the Trump Russia story for Real Clear Investigations. And he's been on Tucker Carlson's show over on when he was still on Fox a bunch of times. Aaron, welcome to the show.
- [52:13]
Aaron Mate
Thanks for having me.
- [52:15]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so this is really interesting to me and there aren't more than a handful of journalists who have been neck deep in Russiagate from the start. And you're one of them. I'm not one of them because I freely confess that when this was all unfolding, I had just started at NBC and I was trying to do not non political stuff. And it was a delight not to be immersed in all the Russiagate nonsense back then, which seemed like bullshit, but you really had to get neck deep in order to know one way or another, you know, and there were few who did it and you're one of them. So now that it all comes out that it was even more of a hoax than we knew. People like you are invaluable who have been on it from the beginning. So let's go through it because there's new like we've been having Taibbi on. We had him on twice last week to walk us through the initial tranches of information, what Tulsi released that one Friday night, what we then gleaned from that House intelligence report of 2020 that was stuck in a vault at CIA until it was just declassified. And we got a look at it last week and we've learned that the intelligence community was preparing a report for Barack Obama Presidential Daily Brief that was going to really downplay Russia's interference. And then Obama said, hold on, hold on, hold on. They had a big meeting and the next thing you know he received a report saying, oh, Russia did interfere. It was bad. It was bad, sir. And then we got The January of 17 Intelligence Community Assessment that said they interfered and they did it to help Trump. And now we've learned that that second we learned from Matt Taibbi last week, who analyzed the latest releases for us, that that did it to help Trump thing was just completely made up. They knew it was made up. Brennan required it based on a bunch of bullshit. The Steele dossier, yes, but also three other really flimsy, even More pathetic pieces of so called analysis or data that were just completely made up and he knew it. Some of them preceded like 2014 analysis before Trump was even running. So that and did it to Trump help win thing was completely not made up of nonsense. And and now you've got a piece out talking about how that's not all that was nonsense. The Russia interfered in the election piece also turns out to be almost entirely bullshit, including the piece we all accepted, which was that they hacked those DNC email, they were responsible for hacking the DNC emails and that later got posted on WikiLeaks. So do I accurately state like the overview as to where we are now?
- [54:54]
Aaron Mate
Yes. And the intelligence that has just been declassified by Tulsi Gabbard gives us some really important new information. On the latter piece that you mentioned, the core allegation at the heart of Russiagate, even before collusion became a public thing, it was that Russia hacked the DNC and gave the emails to WikiLeaks that basically broke out in June 2016, followed by the release of the WikiLeaks emails in July 2016. And at that point, the Clinton campaign, through its contractor CrowdStrike, was the first entity to say that the Russians did it. And a lot of people in the media just ran with it because that's what they were saying. And for some reason, if you accuse a foreign actor of something, then we just have to take it on faith. That's sort of an established playbook going back to the Iraq war and many other similar propaganda campaigns. And then the intelligence community assessment that you talked about that was released in January, that formally endorsed, that said with high confidence, Russia hacked the DNC, gave the emails to WikiLeaks, and along with collusion, that Russian email hacking allegation was the core plank of russiagate. Now we all know by now that collusion was a complete scam laundered through the Clinton campaign through Christopher. Still, nobody even in corporate media that was all about it even defends that anymore. Even Adam Schiff, I think, has stopped defending the collusion allegation, even though he was claiming for years he had seen secret evidence of it. But as you said, they have clung to the Russian email hacking allegation. And what we get now from Tulsi Gabbard declassification is that In September of 2016, less than two months before the election, the FBI and the NSA, which are the two premier intelligence agencies that would be able to investigate this hack and leak allegation, the FBI taking the lead in investigating the hacking of the DNC and the NSA is, we all know, like the premier surveillance agency in the world. They can see anything that comes in and out over cyber warfare. So they'd be in the best position to assess whether or not Russia hacked the DNC and gave the emails to WikiLeaks. And what they said, and we're only learning this now, nearly nine years later, is that they had low confidence in the Russia hack and leak allegation that was suppressed. Instead of the public hearing about that, the Obama administration put out a report through Clapper, who was then heading the Office of the Director of national intelligence, and Jeh Johnson, who is heading Department of Homeland Security, on October 7. And they said, in the name of the intelligence community, they have high confidence that Russia was behind the hacking of the dnc, suppressing what the FBI and the NSA had said. And that remains the same. After the election, there was another assessment circulated that we learned about through Tulsi Gabbard that said the picture of the attribution of doubting the attribution of Russia had not changed at all. And the reason was that the FBI and the NSA said we didn't have the technical evidence for it. And that was the point that people like myself had been making is like, yes, intelligence officials were telling us Russia did it, but where's the evidence? We were never told it. And now we know the reason why, is because they had none. So that gets suppressed. And as you said then, Obama orders the production of a new intelligence community assessment that gets released in January 2017, and the low confidence assessment of the FBI and the NSA gets buried. And, you know, someone might argue, okay, well, fine. What if the US Got new intelligence after the FBI and NSA first made that low confidence assessment? Well, now we know from the declassified HPSI report that you mentioned that just.
- [58:09]
Megyn Kelly
Came out, that basically intelligence report from 2020 that was in the vault. Keep going.
- [58:14]
Aaron Mate
Exactly. Now, we learned from them that basically no new intelligence was collected after the election, that most of the intelligence that went into the ICA was collected before the election. Which means at the time that the FBI and the NSA made their low confidence assessment that Russia hacked the dnc, no new evidence was collected after that. To change their minds. And think about it, this makes sense. At the same time as the Clinton campaign was framing Trump as a Russian asset, they were also hiring a firm, CrowdStrike, which first accused Russia of hacking the DNC. And when the FBI went to CrowdStrike and said, can we investigate the DNC servers for ourselves? CrowdStrike said no. And for some reason, the FBI agreed to that. This would be as if I accused someone of robbing my house. And then when the police came, I said, yeah, I think that person did it. But you can't investigate yourself. You have to rely on my own internal investigation. But that's what happened.
- [59:08]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, let me jump in, because that raises an interesting issue. Why would the FBI accept that? Why would the FBI say, okay, we accept your word, Hillary Clinton, that CrowdStrike is saying it was the Russians who hacked the DNC emails, and therefore we accept that it was Russia who hacked the DNC emails. And it brings me to a report that's just out or it's coming. It's coming, I guess. Hold on. I want to make sure I have it right. Fox News yesterday reported that before the FBI ever launched its probe into Russia and Russia and collusion with Trump and all that, before that, U.S. intel agencies had credible foreign sources saying that the FBI would help spread the Russia collusion hoax. That, in other words, there we're going to see documents, according to Fox News, I think this week from Tulsi, that show before the FBI started probing Trump and this alleged collusion nonsense, they had been told by credible foreign sources that, sorry, U.S. intel agencies had credible foreign sources that indicated the FBI, one of our intel services, was going to help spread the Russian collusion hoax. So, in other words, is that Russia, Russia's like they know the FBI is going to help Hillary spread nonsense about them and Donald Trump.
- [60:34]
Aaron Mate
Well, we do know that John Brennan briefed Obama right before the Trump Russia investigation was open on July 31, that he had picked up intelligence that Russia was aware of, of a plot in which Hillary was going to frame Trump as a Russian asset and tie that to alleged Russian interference. And Brennan got that and briefed it to Obama. And now we learn, actually what Brennan was concerned about was not that Hillary was framing Trump as a Russian asset, but that Russia was aware of it. That's what allies of Brennan have said. And that's why even when Brennan sent a referral to the FBI, making sure that they're aware of this in early September, James Comey later said he couldn't remember it. It didn't ring any bells. That was his testimony to Congress. You're not aware that the CIA told you that a major presidential candidate was framing her rival as a Russian asset, which you happen to be investigating on. And look, just based on what we know already, the FBI claims that the Steele dossier had nothing to do with decision. Open up. Crossfire Hurricane. But yet we also know, which is.
- [61:32]
Megyn Kelly
The investigation by the FBI into Donald Trump and whether he colluded with Russia to win.
- [61:37]
Aaron Mate
Correct. But we also know that weeks before the FBI opened up its investigation, Victoria Nuland, who was then a senior State Department official and a very hawkish bureaucrat when it comes to Russia and was really alarmed by Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail where he was criticizing foreign interventions and even talking about getting along with Russia, even saying, we don't want to have World War Three over Ukraine. Victoria Nuland approves the deployment of an FBI agent to go to Rome and meet with Christopher Steele and receive his dossier. And this FBI agent received the dossier, this is early July 2016, and gives it to his colleagues. And then three weeks later, the FBI opens up. The Trump Russia investigation immediately uses Steele's dossier source material, including for surveillance warrants on Carter Page. And they want us to believe that this had nothing to do, that the FBI receiving the Steele dossier weeks earlier had nothing to do with opening up Crossfire Hurricane. And they want us to believe the official pretext is this ridiculous official predicate of George Papadopoulos, a low level Trump campaign volunteer, receiving, quote, a suggestion of, a suggestion of someone specified Russian help. It just, it doesn't make any sense. So if this Fox News is, if this Fox News report is correct, that there's new evidence that the FBI was in on this, it just attracts exactly with what we already know because they did everything else.
- [62:57]
Megyn Kelly
It explains the behavior that, that seems somewhat mysterious right now.
- [63:01]
Aaron Mate
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And by the way, on the issue of CrowdStrike, what the public also wasn't told until a year after Mueller shut down, was a CrowdStrike in December 2017. Their president, Sean Henry, who by the way, used to work with James Comey and Robert Mueller at the FBI, he testified before Congress in December 2017 that CrowdStrike, which had first accused Russia of hacking the DNC, actually had no evidence. That's a, quote, no evidence that these alleged Russian hackers actually took anything from the dnc. And that's a pretty big admission. You're accusing Russia of hacking and leaking these emails, but you have no evidence that they actually took anything from your servers. So how can you possibly make this allegation? Well, the public wasn't allowed to ask this question because that was buried for almost three years and only got released a year after the Mueller probe shut down. So that's just another example of countervailing evidence that comes out years after the fact that undermines this explosive allegation that at the time, if you recall this, it seems so silly now, like hacking, leaking emails. It's, you know, people were comparing this to Pearl harbor and 9, 11. Even if Russia did do that, you can't compare it to these seismic events. And by the way, we do, I think, far worse things around the world to other countries.
- [64:08]
Megyn Kelly
Right. We do the same.
- [64:10]
Aaron Mate
Sure.
- [64:10]
Megyn Kelly
And by the way, Russia has done this in many elections. It wasn't just the 16 election in which they tried to sow chaos or amplify, you know, bad news articles that would make us fight. That was when I, before I went to interview Putin, that was one of the main things that I learned was he. What he was really interested in doing is sowing chaos. Like he. They would amplify, for example, in 2020, maybe Black lives Matter articles that would sort of get people fired up and riled up and start, like, fighting internally. That's his real goal, is to make us fight each other. But, like, they'd been doing that for a long time. It was nothing new to help Trump in 2016.
- [64:42]
Aaron Mate
What I think is documented is that a Russian troll farm put out some really dumb memes and ads on social media that nobody saw, and they were barely about the election. That's documented. That's what Russia actually did, if you want to call that interference. Okay. I mean, some Russians did do that. I don't think it impacted a single person in the US Certainly did not impact a single vote, let alone swing the election as we were told. I mean, this was. There were academic studies trying to argue that Russian trolls swung the election. It's an insult to everybody's intelligence. And it was a way to cover up for the Democratic Party's own failures in that election and their refusal to come to grips with that. So blaming Russia was a convenient foil, but the hysteria around this was just. It was unbelievable. So I don't know if you remember this, but when Trump gave his joint press conference with Putin in July 2018, and, you know, Trump next to Putin said that Putin had denied interfering. And Trump said, you know, I have no reason to doubt him. The freakout was unbelievable. Like, the way this was described, this was like the worst thing a president has ever done. John Brennan described Trump as, quote, nothing short of treasonous, when John Brennan must have known that the FBI and the NSA actually shared Trump's conclusions. Certainly they had the low confidence assessment that had been buried. And by the way, we also learned now from the House intelligence report that they were aware of Putin's view on the election. And people close to Putin were saying that Putin didn't care because no matter who won, in Putin's view, it wouldn't really matter. Policy towards Russia wouldn't change. And of course, that's one of many pieces of critical information that got suppressed in order to put out this narrative that Russia was backing Trump.
- [66:18]
Megyn Kelly
Exactly. So they were taking out actual human intelligence of somebody close to Putin who was saying he doesn't care who. And they were putting in nonsense like information from the Steele dossier and little sentence fragments that five different CIA analysts could not agree upon and stuff that predated Trump's even arrival on the political scene from, like 2014. And one other statement saying, you know, Trump and Putin could work together as businessmen or something like that. It was like completely amorphous, empty stuff that they used to try to say he wants Trump to win, and that's, that's how they got to it. So it seems very clear that they had an agenda within the intelligence community to make sure this assessment came out as it did, saying Russia interfered and they did it to help Trump, which was to some extent a reversal from where they had been going prior to the Obama meeting. And this is where you get the Andy McCarthy's, who I really like and admire and respect, but I just really disagree with him on this of the world, saying it's apples to oranges because he keeps focusing on, on the fact that that presidential daily brief they were going to prepare for Obama on December 8th was really just going to say that wasn't downplaying all Russian interference. It was just going to say that the Russians didn't hack election machines. And that's. We. That's fine. They didn't, is his point. And so it's fine they were going to say that. What happened in the Ultimate Report is they didn't come out and say they did hack election machines. They never reversed on that. It wasn't a 180 after the Obama meeting on that. It just simply focused on what the Russians did succeed at doing, like hacking the DNC and interfering in general with the goal of helping Trump. But hacking the DNC now we're learning, appears to have been false. General interference was way overplayed. It was a bunch of bullshit like you point out with the farms. And to help Trump was completely made up.
- [68:20]
Aaron Mate
Correct. And look, here's the one criticism you can make of Tulsi Gabbard here. You can criticize her language like accusing Obama of treason. Maybe that's not her place to make that determination. That's for the Justice Department. And also she did conflate vote hacking with email hacking in the way that she put out these findings. So I think that's a fair critique. But as you point out, it doesn't matter, because the fact is we learned from Tulsi's declassification something really important, which is that the intelligence on the email hacking, forget the vote hacking that was suppressed, and the two premier US Intelligence agencies who would be best placed to assess who hacked the DNC and gave the emails to WikiLeaks, they had low confidence in the allegation that it was Russia. That's the bottom line here. So even if there was a conflation made between vote machine hacking and DNC server hacking, it doesn't matter, because the intelligence on the email hacking said that we don't have any evidence that Russia did it, and that was kept from the public. That's a major scandal because for years we were told this was the intelligence, this was the intelligence consensus. If you question this, you're a Russian propagandist, you're treasonous, as John Brennan said of Donald Trump when he questioned this. And that is the scandal here, the suppression of intelligence to manufacture a lie in the same way that the US Government did in going to war in Iraq. And by the way, some of the same players in the Iraq WMD hoax are involved here, including James Clapper, who oversaw the production of the intelligence community assessment along with John Brennan. In his memoir, James Clapper writes about how he basically, in the rush to help the Bush administration make its case for invading Iraq, he went and found things that weren't there. That's almost a direct quote. I went and found things that weren't there. So what he was admitting to is manufacturing intelligence. So why are we surprised that he wouldn't? Why are we surprised that he did the same thing here? And why are we supposed to take these people's word on faith, especially given their record and as a journalist? I mean, look, I'm not a Trump guy, I'm not a fan of. But it's not for unelected intelligence bureaucrats to decide who gets to be in power. What the foreign policy of the US Is, it's for the elected president. And what we saw here was just a contemptuous response to an election in which the wrong guy in the eyes of powerful people won. And so they did work to undermine him. And no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you shouldn't support that.
- [70:38]
Megyn Kelly
The other thing about now learning that Russia hacked the dnc. Being a lie, or at least being totally unsupported is it remains to this day one of the main things people downplaying the Tulsi news rely on to stand up their own conclusions that Russia was trying to help Trump. They say he hacked, you know, Putin hacked the DNC. Putin released through WikiLeaks the dirt, at least some of it, that he had on Hillary. And therefore, how can you say he had any goal other than to help Donald Trump? That was not a helpful release for Hillary Clinton. And that's yet another reason why it is so significant that we're now learning that we don't actually have the goods on Russia being behind that DNC hack.
- [71:27]
Aaron Mate
Exactly. Exactly. We're learning this nearly nine years later. And this is not the peak of Russia gate anymore. People have moved on to other stories, but at the time, if you read any single news account in establishment media, it's just taken as fact that Russia hacked and leaked those emails and there was never any scrutiny whatsoever. And the point that people like myself and Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi and others were trying to make is Russia might have hacked the dnc. It's certainly possible, but we've never been given the evidence for it. And the role of a journalist is not to write down what intelligence officials tell you to say. It's to look for the facts. And the more facts we get, the more they undermine the narrative that Russia hacked the dnc. And even on the issue of voting machines, yes, it's true. The Obama administration never said that Russia hacked voting machines. But if you look at the media clips, what was the common talking point from Hillary Clinton on down? Russia hacked the election. Russia hacked the election. And it did create an impression among many people, especially Democratic voters, if you look at polls, that Russia had changed the votes. And that's what happens when you have these propaganda campaigns that you're not allowed to question. And if you do, you're called names, you're marginalized, you're kicked out of media spaces. They just create consensus. Like, no one issued an edict saying you all have to believe that Russia hacked the dnc. But just this, this, this sort of group mania allowed for this to be pervasive. And even now, when evidence comes out showing that the intelligence wasn't there to support it. Has any mainstream outlet reported on this? Have they reported that the NSA and the FBI had low confidence and the Russia hacking leak allegation? Has anyone ever reported that?
- [72:59]
Megyn Kelly
They're ignoring all of this. They're going with the Democrat line of like there's no there there. The Obama line, there's no there there. The Pod save America line, there's no there there. Which I'm going to get to in one second. But let me show a little bit of that. This is from the Media Research center and what, what we were hearing about Russia hacking the election at the time. Sat 63.
- [73:16]
Aaron Mate
Russia hacking the election to elect Trump.
- [73:18]
Buck Sexton
Is the end of our democracy.
- [73:19]
Aaron Mate
Votes were definitely affected.
- [73:21]
Buck Sexton
Russia hacked the election to tilted to Mr. Trump.
- [73:23]
Megyn Kelly
The Russians definitively hacked the election. Russia did hack the election, no doubt. The Russians hacked the election.
- [73:31]
Buck Sexton
Yes. Russia hacked the election.
- [73:33]
Megyn Kelly
Fact. Russia hacked the election.
- [73:35]
Buck Sexton
President elect Donald Trump still not sounding convinced that Russia hacked the election. If you can get him to accept that Russia hacked the election, see if you can get him to accept who won the civil war. The Director of National Intelligence, the head of the National Security Agency, the head of the FBI, all of these intelligence experts saying Russia hacked the intelligence, Russia hacked the election. The FBI, the CIA, the nsa, the former Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper. I mean they've all said this. So to believe that that's wrong, you have to believe they're all involved in an elaborate conspiracy to get Donald Trump.
- [74:09]
Megyn Kelly
Oh my God, that's an amazing clip. I hadn't actually seen it myself, Aaron. And by the way, the lower third on the CNN clip where they're saying, you know, they hacked. These are all the officials and the agencies that said they hacked the lower third is Trump. Colon unsure if Russia interfered. So like Trump was the only one who actually was right. Actually I'm not quite certain whether they did or they didn't. And all those media figures so sure, because the NSA and the CIA and the FBI were or undoubtedly leaking to them, telling them that it was so and they completely forgot a journalist's obligation, which is to kick the tires, especially on a story that is hand delivered to you with a big red ribbon on it from any three letter agency.
- [74:55]
Aaron Mate
It's unlike anything I've ever seen. The level of media subservience to this narrative. And also everyone also was convinced that there was a conspiracy between Trump and Russia too. I mean, try to challenge that on one of these network shows. And it was very, very difficult. In fact, they didn't even allow on guests who would challenge that narrative. It's just this was the talking point. And even though there's no one, like we don't live in a totalitarian society, there's no official telling people what to say. But everybody just Intuited that this was the narrative to go with, this was the way to respond to Trump. If you wanted to get into media spaces, this is what you had to say. And it was absolute mania. And by the way, for me, you know, this, all this fear mongering about foreign interference, look, I'm on the left end of the spectrum. I do think there's foreign interference. I think Israeli interference in US Democracy is a lot more significant. AIPAC spends tens of millions of dollars to elect candidates and defeat candidates based on what it deems to be in the interests of Israel. Marjorie Taylor Greene's called for AIPAC to be registered as a foreign agent. I think that's a much more significant foreign interference in US democracy than whenever Russian trolls put out on social media. But that all gets completely ignored because that is bipartisan. And here, because there was this partisan effort started by Hillary Clinton to frame Trump as a Russian asset and blame Russia for his election rather than look at the Clinton wings own dysfunctions, their own failures. Everybody went along with it and we're still paying the price because now, you know, people still want answers. And you know, Trump voters especially were, you know, dismissed with contempt as malleable dupes who were brainwashed by Russia into not voting for saintly Hillary Clinton. And so there's also this elitist contempt that underpins all of this. So accordingly, people in the media don't want to be embarrassed for going along with a massive scam. And that's why it's still very difficult to get accountability. And that's why they're still not reporting on the countervailing facts, the low confidence assessment from the FBI and the NSA. No one ever acknowledged the CrowdStrike. The Clinton campaign contractor had admitted under oath they had no evidence of Russian hacking and leaking. No one. It's amazing when you, when you, when.
- [77:00]
Megyn Kelly
You pair that with the red siren warning they'd been given that, hey, Hillary Clinton's team is planning to try to paint Trump as a Russian proxy and agent of some sort. And in order, the purpose was in order to distract from her email scandal. If you look at what's unveiled in the intelligence, so our intelligence agencies knew that at a minimum, and if the Fox News reporting turns out to be true, cooperated with it, but at a minimum knew. And then when the alleged intel started coming in from Hillary sources like the Steele Dossier and the CrowdStrike thing on who hacked the DNC, they didn't say, okay, we were warned. This is going to happen. Here's the bullshit that this woman is orchestrating. Let's not get hooked on that line like a gullible fish. They jumped on it, ran with it. And while an initial report to President Obama was gonna say, well, they didn't. The Russians didn't really do this much. It took one woodsheding from him, from the sound of it, and they were all on board with they did it. Cite the Ciel Dossier, cite the CrowdStrike information. They were completely on team let's get Trump.
- [78:17]
Aaron Mate
They were. And that's what the Mueller investigation was for. Like the Mueller investigation essentially was waged to make this whole narrative look credible. And they spent tens of millions of dollars making this thing seem somewhat legitimate. And of course, the media ran with it. And if you read all the indictments that came out of the Mueller probe, in retrospect, I mean, at the time, they were so dumb. But even now, especially given all we know now, they're written by really smart people, people probably gone to Ivy League schools, law schools, and they're basically wielding their intelligence to make it appear as if they have something on Trump and Russia when there was absolutely nothing. The indictment of George Papadopoulos and Harder Page and Michael Flynn. Michael Flynn, who was accused of lying to the FBI about discussing sanctions with the Russian ambassador, when if you actually read the transcript of his wiretap conversation, they're not even talking about sanctions. They're talking about the fact that Obama had kicked out a bunch, a bunch of Russian diplomats. And all Flynn basically said was, listen, we're going to come in soon, things will be different, so don't retaliate, you know, too harshly, because we want to have good relations. We don't want this to go out of hand. That's all he said. And he gets indicted and he's forced to resign. He's basically sabotaged by the FBI and all this. And they actually, this was. It's pretty well established that this was a deliberate effort. So, I mean, there's so much malpractice here, so much deception. And it was, again, no matter what you think about Donald Trump, why do we accept the intrusion of the national security state into the democratic process? And geopolitically, it had many consequences. You know, Trump on the campaign trail was talking about getting along with Russia, which I think is a good thing. Why do we want to have tensions with another nuclear armed power between the US And Russia? Both countries can destroy the world many times over. So I think it's good to have cooperation and diplomacy with Russia. And Russiagate basically made that impossible in fact. Trump even complained about that in the fall of 2017. He said Russia Gate is going to get people killed because his mandate, as he saw it, which was to cooperate, reduce foreign interventions, that was undermined by people basically urging him to get so called tough on Russia.
- [80:24]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, now he had something to prove where he didn't before. All right, exactly. Let me stand you by because there's a couple things I want to go through. I do want to show you some of the defenses that these Obama acolytes, the Pod Save America guys, have been offering and talk about that Senate intel report. And then I've got to show you what happened on MSNBC and Morning Joe this morning. This is a must do. Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American Dream starts with purpose. By honoring your career calling, you can impact your family, friends and community. Change the world for good by putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private Christian Affordable Visit gcu Edu A lot of people worry about the online platforms and which one to trust for your general online news source, right? They don't know most of them are left and you can't trust them. Some are right, but you know, you don't want to be manipulated against righties who like hate Trump, for example. And this is where Ground News comes in. This is an important app you need to know about right now. Unlike other platforms amplifying or suppressing certain narratives to shape your worldview, this is an independent platform pulling in perspectives from across the political spectrum to show you the truth. Mainstream media will not with more context than you will find in virtually any other place. I see your comments. I know you're worried about immigration, the economy, simply finding the truth missing from your online feeds. Well, Ground News is here to help. Right now you can get 40% off their vantage plan. That's five bucks a month when you go to ground news.com Megan that's G R O U N D news.com Megan ground news helps you think freely and hold the powerful accountable. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.
- [83:25]
Buck Sexton
Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com and get three months free. Offer details apply.
- [83:42]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show, independent journalist and contributor to Real Clear Investigations. Aaron Mate is back with me now. Aaron, I just want to make something perfectly clear because I think I glossed over it. We talked and I outlined about the info we got from Tulsi on that Friday night and then the House intelligence report that came out the next week from Tulsi from 2020 and how it showed the intel community was about to give Obama this presidential daily brief that kind of downplayed Russia's involvement. Then he has a big meeting and the next thing you know they produce a report that says, oh no, Russia, Russia, Russia interfered and did it to help Trump. What you and I have been discussing is something else, which is the low quality intelligence assessment earlier that fall that Russia hacked the dnc. And we've talked about how then that low quality assessment was turned into a high confidence assessment for no apparent reason. But here too, having reviewed the documents, your your reporting is that Obama got involved. Once again, it was Obama stepped in and, and appears to have said, that's not, that's not the assessment I want. You outlined it as follows. On September 12, 2016, the FBI and NSA expressed low confidence in the core Russiagate allegation that they hacked and leaked these Democratic party emails. By December 7, 2016, that assessment hadn't changed. Most US agencies only had moderate confidence at best that Russia was maybe probably behind the hack and the leak, and that was also concealed from us. And then Obama had that principles meeting that same day where he did the reversal on all the other stuff we're talking about. And it was there too that he appears to have decided that he wanted a write up saying Russia did this anyway. So I mean, his fingerprints are all over this reversal in the Russian information.
- [85:42]
Aaron Mate
Obama to me was pretty malleable. So I don't know to what extent this is Obama running the show or just Obama standing down to John Brown Brennan and Hillary Clinton. But regardless, Obama's fingerprints are on this. And if you look at the timeline September 12, we now know this has just come out from Tulsi Gabbard. Nsa, FBI say they have low confidence in the Russia hacking leak allegation. Okay. October 7th, even though that's the view of the FBI and NSA, Obama gets the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of the National Intelligence to put out a statement saying the intelligence community has high confidence that Russia is behind the hacking, contradicting what the FBI and the NSA were concluding.
- [86:22]
Megyn Kelly
And let me just pause you there. Just hold on, hold that thought because we do have the Obama soundbite here. Well, it's former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson talking about Obama approving that statement that Russia was behind the DNC hack even though he knew that there was at best a low confidence assessment to that effect. Here it is in Sat Fox 55 when he, Jeh Johnson, testified before the.
- [86:45]
Aaron Mate
House intelligence committee on October 7, we issued a very clear declaration based upon what we knew at the time that the Russian government was behind the hacks of the DNC. The October 7th statement was an administration.
- [86:59]
Buck Sexton
Statement that was the result of an intelligence community assessment.
- [87:05]
Aaron Mate
The President approved the statement. I know he wanted us to make the statement. So that was very definitely a statement by the United States government, not just.
- [87:13]
Buck Sexton
Jim Clapper and me.
- [87:16]
Megyn Kelly
But he doesn't reveal that the, the intelligence that had been given to Obama was low confidence. And then somehow Obama interferes and we wind up with a high confidence assessment that they did this and it does not appear any additional information was received to change it from low to high.
- [87:32]
Aaron Mate
And that latter point about no additional information being received, that's now documented in the House and Intelligence Committee report that's just been released by Tulsi Gabbard where they say the only new intelligence that came in their words are it's quote, paltry. So most of the intelligence that was produced for the ISA was collected before the election at a time when the FBI and the NSA were saying that they had low confidence. And yeah, Jeh Johnson saying there this was an administration document. He's saying it speaks in the name of the intelligence community. But that's false because the two premier agencies that were best placed to assess this, the FBI and the nsa, they were dissenting on the allegation that Jeh Johnson and Obama put out publicly. And by the way, meanwhile, and the recent CIA review by John Ratcliffe made this point, other key intelligence agencies were excluded altogether. So the Defense Intelligence Agency of the Pentagon and the State Department's Intelligence Bureau, the inr, they were completely excluded from the process. And the CIA review by Ratcliffe noted that this was odd, especially if you're talking about the actions of an adversary. Russia. Why are excluding the Pentagon's intelligence agency and the State Department, which we presumably have a lot to contribute. So you have overruling and ignoring the dissenting view of the NSA and the. The dissenting view of the NSA and the FBI and completely excluding the Pentagon and the State Department.
- [88:51]
Megyn Kelly
Wow. Okay. Well, we'll put a pin in that one and see, because it also does raise questions. If the FBI actually wanted to help participate in a Hillary Clinton lie that Russia interfered, then why would they have been coming forward saying, we don't think they hacked the dnc, we only have low confidence, and we're going to. We're going to dissent from anything that tries to pin it on them?
- [89:13]
Aaron Mate
Well, I can answer that, because, look, at the time, they were relying on CrowdStrike to investigate the DNC server hacking, and CrowdStrike wasn't cooperating. And I suspect, you know, obviously someone like Peter Strzok, who was the lead FBI agent on Crossfire Hurricane, he was all on board with framing Trump as a Russian agent. You know, there's text messages of him disparaging Trump, disparaging Trump voters, his by, and also talking about the Russians as, you know, effing savages. So, you know, his view is pretty clear. Not everybody in the FBI was on board with this. And I think what happened with Comey is this. So Comey, after Trump wins, he gets blamed because of his handling of the Clinton email investigation when he came out right before the election and talked about FBI going back into the laptop and uncovering the Anthony Weiner stuff. So Comey is under a lot of fire now from the Clinton wing. And so I think Comey, being the sycophant that he is, decided just to completely shift gears and go along with anything that was asked of him. And that's why we now learn he's pushing for the steel dossier to be included in the intelligence community assessment. And funnily enough, I mean, maybe this is a coincidence, but, you know, at that December 9th meeting between Obama and his top principals, where all of A sudden, the narrative really shifts. So, you know, James. James Clapper is there, John Brennan is there, Susan Rice is there. But representing the FBI and the NSA are not. The respective heads of the FBI and the nsa, James Comey and Mike Rogers were not there at that meeting. The FBI was represented by Andrew McCabe, who was a hardcore Russia gator. He's the one who in May of 2017, opened up a new probe of Trump while he was a sitting president as a potential Russian asset. So McCabe is there, not Comey. And the head of the NSA, Mike Rogers, also is not there. And maybe that's just a coincidence that the heads of these dissenting agencies weren't there, or maybe they weren't there and they were told basically in their absence afterwards to fall in line. And that's at least what I think Comey did.
- [91:12]
Megyn Kelly
Wow. Just to clarify, Obama wasn't personally there, but his chief of staff, Denis McDonough, was there at that meeting at his behest. And we have many officials on record after the fact saying these are the orders that they were given were per the President's request. I mean, it was very clear that McDonough was speaking for Obama and that Obama was on board with the change in intelligence or the representation of the intelligence, which did not look anything like the actual intelligence that they had. Okay, there's a couple things I want to get to. These Pod Save America guys have been running cover for Obama since this story broke. They're crapping all over it. They think people like you, like me, like Matt, are completely irresponsible. I'm going to give you a flavor for it and let you respond. 50.
- [91:55]
Aaron Mate
Do you think they can. They can will this scandal into existence just by repeating treasonous couple and false narrative and manipulated intelligence over and over again?
- [92:07]
Buck Sexton
I don't think we should call this a scandal.
- [92:09]
Aaron Mate
Like, I don't even know what else.
- [92:10]
Buck Sexton
To call it, like a crock of shit, like it's not a scandal, suggests that there was an allegation of something. There's at least credible allegation of something. They can't even explain the allegation. It makes no sense. This is the most easily debunked thing in the world. And the shortest way I would do that is how could it possibly be that Obama was trying to steal the.
- [92:29]
Aaron Mate
Election from Trump when during the election.
- [92:31]
Buck Sexton
The FBI was investigating Trump and told.
- [92:33]
Aaron Mate
No one, but the FBI instead announced.
- [92:35]
Buck Sexton
An investigation to Hillary Clinton three weeks before the election?
- [92:38]
Aaron Mate
It's all part of the plan, Dan.
- [92:39]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, it's I mean, it's.
- [92:41]
Aaron Mate
It's so stupid.
- [92:43]
Megyn Kelly
Thoughts on that one, Aaron?
- [92:45]
Aaron Mate
First of all, it's not true that the investigation into Trump and Russia was suppressed. It came out in the New York Times shortly before the election. So that's not even true. And, yeah, they couldn't say very much because they didn't have anything. It was a scam. And I think they were still putting together exactly what kind of conspiracy theory they wanted to go with and what aspects of it, because Trump was being framed as a Russian asset. And so, yes, and the point is, whatever they did before the election, after the election, they ran with this, and they basically sabotaged Trump's incoming presidency before it even began. They released an intelligence assessment saying that basically Trump was the product of. Of Russian interference. They sabotaged his cabinet by going after Mike Flynn, and they threw leaks to credulous media stenographers. They basically painted this picture that Trump was being controlled by Vladimir Putin, and they made the Steele dossier look credible. So, sure, you can say maybe Obama wasn't trying to tip the scales for Trump in the election, but certainly other people were. John Brennan was. John Brennan was briefing members of Congress in August, trying to basically say that Russia was backing Trump. And that's why you had letters from Harry Reid to Obama demanding that Obama put out there what he knew about Russian meddling in the election. So even if Obama wasn't trying to help Hillary Clinton out with this, he was allowing it to happen by having a CIA and an FBI help frame Trump as a Russian agent. And he was briefed back in July by Brennan that Russia was aware of a plot to frame Trump. So really, what Obama should have done is called all this out and said, like, we can't have a baseless investigation which the FBI had already launched and had massive consequences way into Trump's first term.
- [94:27]
Megyn Kelly
Sure did. By the way, that first guy on there was Jon Favreau of Pod Save America, who has said he really, really, really wants to debate somebody on this issue. And, I mean, you're the perfect guy. I'd be happy to host it here. Has he invited you to go on his show to actually have the debate he claims he so desperately wants?
- [94:48]
Aaron Mate
No, I've never been invited by any prominent proponent of the Russiagate controversy because they. Because, like, you can't. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. And that's the problem here. This was a propaganda campaign. You know, people make fun of QAnon and all the conspiracy theories around QAnon.
- [95:04]
Megyn Kelly
This was blue.
- [95:05]
Aaron Mate
And on this was a Democratic Party conspiracy theory. And it was. Had catastrophic consequences. Consequences so many of them domestic. It increased polarization. For me, someone who was very supportive of the policies of Bernie Sanders. I believe in Medicare for all. I don't support attacking other countries. I believe in cutting military aid to Israel after 2016. That would have been a great chance for Bernie Sanders to take control of the party and say, unlike Trump, I'm a genuine populist alternative. Like Trump appealed to working class people. I actually have policies that can actually benefit them. And Bernie Sanders, unfortunately, rather than stand up and say, it's my turn now, he bowed down to the Russiagate narrative and he paid lip service to it. And how was he rewarded, by the way, for his obedience in 2020 when he's running against Biden in the primaries? The Russiagate narrative gets used against him by these same people, including Pod Save America.
- [96:00]
Megyn Kelly
The Democrats have been out to get Bernie from the beginning. I mean, just ask Tulsi. That's. That's one of the reasons she got excised from the Democrat Party, because she stood up to it, saying, this is wrong. What are you doing? We shouldn't be putting our finger on the scale to help one Democrat win over another.
- [96:14]
Aaron Mate
Which raises a great point. If they don't like the fact that Tulsi is now accusing people of treason, they shouldn't have tolerated back when they were accusing Tulsi of treason and being a Russian asset. Hillary Clinton calls her a Russian asset.
- [96:26]
Megyn Kelly
That's right.
- [96:26]
Aaron Mate
And they were accusing Trump and all his supporters of being Russian assets, too. So if they don't like that language, now they're getting exactly what they asked for when they're the ones who put this out there in the first place and still don't account for it.
- [96:38]
Megyn Kelly
That's right. One more from the Pod Save America guys and their attempted defense. This is on that Senate intel report that we've seen Obama himself rely on to say, there's no there, there. Move on. Here it is.
- [96:53]
Aaron Mate
She lays that out in great detail, but then claims somehow that because the intelligence community didn't conclude that the voting systems were hacked, therefore this has all been a conspiracy by Barack Obama to commit some kind of a coup after the fact, even though Donald Trump became president. I don't like it.
- [97:14]
Megyn Kelly
Doesn't mean it doesn't make any fucking sense.
- [97:16]
Aaron Mate
We all keep having a version of this conversation which is like, am I missing something?
- [97:20]
Megyn Kelly
Because I just feel like this doesn't.
- [97:22]
Aaron Mate
Make any sense at all.
- [97:22]
Buck Sexton
I mean, like, they're saying, yeah, they're releasing new intelligence that shows Russia didn't.
- [97:27]
Aaron Mate
Launch a cyber attack on our election.
- [97:28]
Buck Sexton
Infrastructure that altered the outcome, which is what the Obama administration said, what they said. And they're trying to make it sound like that's a smoking gun that proves that the Russians didn't interfere in the 2016 election. But as you mentioned, we know that.
- [97:40]
Aaron Mate
They did in part because the Senate.
- [97:42]
Buck Sexton
Intelligence Committee, then led by Marco Rubio, now the Secretary of State, conducted a three year investigation that determined Russia waged.
- [97:48]
Aaron Mate
An aggressive effort to interfere in our election.
- [97:52]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so the entire two thirds of that was just a straw man misstating Tulsi's argument, your argument, everyone's argument. No one's saying the ultimate PDB or Intelligence Committee community assessment needed to say that the Russians hacked election machines. No one is saying that, or it's not even about the election machines. It's about all the other things that we've been discussing and they're straw manning it. But the Senate Intel Committee report, can you speak to that?
- [98:18]
Aaron Mate
Yeah, just last point on the point about the election hacking. Tulsi and her team, I think, made a narrative mistake in focusing on the intelligence that found there was no Russian hacking of election infrastructure. But as you say, it's also a complete straw man because what the intelligence she released also shows is that the FBI and SA were again relying on Steele dossier, lying about it. John Brennan told Congress it was not a part of the intelligence community assessment, it was. And also critically, they buried the low confidence assessment that the FBI and the NSA made in the Russian hacking leaking allegation. And that's not something I've ever seen Pod Save America or any other russiagate adhering media outlet address. And so until they address that, they just cannot dismiss this as nothing. Because what they're doing is simply cherry picking a conflation that Tulsi made and ignoring the actual real revelations here on the issue of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Look, if you read that report, there is so much that they either missed on purpose or weren't aware of. So if you look at the House Intelligence Committee report that we've just got, they talk about the fact that intelligence was cherry picked, they talk about the fact that the US had intelligence that Putin didn't care who won the election. And that was all cherry picked. Either the Senate Intelligence Committee had that intelligence access, either the Senate Intelligence Committee either had the same access and just simply ignored it, or they didn't have the access. Either way, the point is the fact that we're still Learning new revelations now from HIPC shows that the Senate Intelligence Committee didn't do its job and therefore, why should we take their word seriously? All they really cared about on the Republican side was disproven collusion, and they did. I think they just ignored the Russian interference side. But now, thankfully, from this HPSI report and more disclosures, we're learning the truth that was suppressed.
- [99:58]
Megyn Kelly
I've got to go over this. This guy writes for the New Republic. His name is Michael Tomaski, and he was on Morning Joe this morning discussing this whole storyline, and here's his take on it.
- [100:13]
Buck Sexton
The question is, how much does Trump mean this?
- [100:17]
Aaron Mate
We don't really know, but by God.
- [100:19]
Buck Sexton
If he means it, there's every reason to suspect that they will go out and do it.
- [100:25]
Aaron Mate
And by do it, you mean they will indict former President Obama for something.
- [100:32]
Buck Sexton
Something.
- [100:33]
Aaron Mate
Something for what? That's a good question.
- [100:37]
Buck Sexton
And I was discussing this with a.
- [100:39]
Aaron Mate
Friend who is a former prosecutor, and he said, yeah, but where are they going to find a witness, you know, who's willing to say that Obama did something illegal?
- [100:46]
Buck Sexton
How are they going to actually prosecute the case?
- [100:49]
Aaron Mate
And I said, fair point.
- [100:50]
Buck Sexton
But in this instance, maybe that isn't.
- [100:52]
Aaron Mate
Really even the point. The points, retribution, the points revenge. The point is the besmirching of Obama's character and so on and so on.
- [101:02]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. And he's very upset about that. He doesn't want that at all. And they had him on to discuss the article that he had posted earlier today. Right. Is today the 27th? Or 20th? Or 20th? Yesterday. Earlier on the 28th. And here's what he wrote. On Planet Earth, Obama cannot be indicted, but we live on Planet Trump. The attempted persecution of a former president is both a dangerous line to cross and an expression of this failed administration. He's very upset about the attempted persecution of a former president. It's a dangerous line to cross. It took me about 10 seconds to see what this same guy wrote when Donald Trump was indicted by Alvin Bragg, also a former president. And here's how that went. The title was the Trump Indictment. He's had it coming for years. He writes, this is historic. He goes on. He even uses the Planet Earth line, only here it goes as follows. On Planet Earth, this means Trump singularly may have even. He is still presumed innocent, violated laws and norms that everyone else has followed. The bottom line here and the one big thing that we know above all else, Donald Trump has had this coming for years. This feels like justice coming. And he ended with this. They have to revere the law. These former presidents, this has been a given throughout our history until Trump. Then he goes off on a tangent about Nixon, goes on. Only Trump knows and respects no law. He got away with what was in the inherently sleazy business. He got away with it when he was in the inherently sleazy business of slapping his name on casinos. But the presidency of the United States is not an inherently sleazy business, or at least it's not supposed to be. Trump made it that if there's any justice left in this country, he will die in a jumpsuit that matches his cratered skin. We're far cry from the attempted persecution of a former president is a dangerous line to cross. Michael Tomaski. So I don't know, I'm not expecting a piece from him or anybody at the New Republic or for that matter, the National Review, saying this may not be a dangerous line to cross. President Obama and his top embassies, emissaries in particular, really do appear to have done something deeply wrong.
- [103:24]
Aaron Mate
It's all projection. They talk about, you know, persecution of political opponents, wanting to jail them. Well, this is what they try to do with Russiagate, and then when that failed, they tried again with the two impeachments and then all the lawfare that followed Trump after he left office, which, again, even if you put aside basic ethics, where we hold ourselves to the same standards that we hold other people to, putting that said, just politically, this was a disaster for Democrats to try to use the legal system to go after their political opponent to try to jail Trump and basically make him unqualified for office. People rebelled against that because they saw this, I think, rightfully as an intrusion into the democratic process where you're supposed to win at the ballot box, not in courts. And it goes beyond Trump. I mean, people forget this, but many people in Trump's circle had their lives ruined as a result of this Russiagate scam. Rick Gates, who was an associate of Paul Manafort, he was indicted by Mueller on some ridiculous trumped up charges because again, Mueller and their team needed to bring charges to justify their existence and justify their investigation. So Rick Gates went through a lot of trouble and people lost a lot of money. Roger Stone, if you remember, cnn, very giddily broadcast a raid on his home by armed police officers to arrest him in his case. Which is over what, Lying to Congress? Who else lied to Congress? We now know that John Brennan lied to Congress when he got up and said the Steele dossier played no role in the intelligence community assessment. When we know from the available evidence that in fact it did. And John Bryant even pushed to have it included in the intelligence community assessment. So they've normalized this climate now where, yeah, people are going to be persecuted. And unlike with Russiagate, Russiagate fraudsters actually have something to be concerned about because, you know, John Brennan, I think, committed perjury.
- [105:08]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, was it here? This is May 23, 2017, in front of the House Intel Committee, John Brennan Sat 58.
- [105:16]
Aaron Mate
Do you know if the Bureau ever relied on the Steele dossier as any. As part of any court filings, applications, petitions, pleadings? I have no awareness. Did the CIA rely on it?
- [105:31]
Buck Sexton
No.
- [105:32]
Aaron Mate
Why not? Because we. We didn't. It wasn't part of the corpus of intelligence information that we had. It was not in any way used as a basis for the intelligence community assessment that was done. It was not.
- [105:52]
Megyn Kelly
Was that it, Aaron?
- [105:53]
Aaron Mate
Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And so that's just not true. It was used as the basis for the intelligence community assessment. It's referenced in the body of the ICA we now know, because it was declassified by Tulsi Gabbard. And the footnote is an annex which has the Steele dossier. So it's just not true that it wasn't used. And if you look at the language about Putin aspiring to help Trump, and it mirrors a lot of the Steele dossier. So even if we didn't know from the documents that the Steele dossier was used, it was pretty apparent, especially when you also understand that the FBI was using the Steele dossier to get surveillance warrants on Carter Page and using it for investigative leads. So, yeah, John Brennan has exposed himself here to a perjury case. And unlike the perjury cases in Russiagate, this actually is consequential and it's substantive. And all those cases back then were cheered on like, you know, with every. If you remember this, with every indictment of George Papadopoulos and Michael Flynn and Rick Gates and Paul Manafort. Media love this. Everyone was giddy over this because they felt as if Mueller was getting closer and closer to the secret Trump Russia conspiracy. In real life, it was just political lawfare to make a fake investigation that was aimed at framing a campaign as Russian assets look credible. And so anybody who decries now accountability for that, you know, have no leg to stand on. And by the way, you know, I think we should oppose this equally, no matter who's doing it. So I'm personally opposed to the Trump administration criminalizing free speech because they don't like what student protesters are saying about Israel. But the Russiagate playbook was to normalize that, to say that the government can go after people if they deem to be spreading disinformation or acting on behalf of a foreign power, even when there's no evidence whatsoever.
- [107:32]
Megyn Kelly
The CIA director, current John Ratcliffe, spoke to what might be the potential charges in this? Because that's the big question. Right. Question mark. Tulsi used the word treason. That's very, very hard to prove. You basically have to be, like, working to undermine the United States with a, or, or have turned on the. The United States with a foreign government. But there are a bunch of other charges that could potentially be brought by the DOJ to which she's made a referral. And so they're reviewing that right now. Now, that testimony by John Brennan is dated 2017, and it's been more than five years. The federal statute of limitations on perjury is five years. But we had Mike Davis, who's very close to the administration, he runs the Article 3 project, which is basically kind of like MAGA law. They've been right about a lot of saying there's really no statute of limitations. That would be. That would stop us from bringing conspiracy claims. And that could envelop Brennan's statement that could have been part of the conspiracy perjury charges that the statute of limitations gets told, meaning it won't start running if the person who lied did something to make it impossible or, you know, near impossible for people to unearth the lie, like taking maybe the House intelligence report that put the lie to what he said and burying it in a safe in a vault at Langley to the point where it took a presidential intervention years later to actually get it out and figure out where there's a lie.
- [108:55]
Aaron Mate
But listen, but that's on Trump, too, because Cash Patel tried to get that report released during Trump's first term. And Trump listened instead to William Barr and Gina Haspel, who did not want that released. So Trump has responsibility there as well.
- [109:09]
Megyn Kelly
That's awful. Did not know that. Okay, here's CIA Director Ratcliffe. This is on Fox News Sunday speaking to the potential charges. 40. John Brennan testified to Congress and so did Hillary Clinton within five years, I think it was in 2020 and then again in 2021.
- [109:28]
Buck Sexton
Are those statute of limitations still live? What hasn't come out yet, and what's going to come out is the underlying intelligence that will come out in the John Durham Report Classified Annex. And what that intelligence shows, Maria, is that part of this was a Hillary Clinton plan, but part of it was an FBI plan to be an accelerant to that fake Steele dossier.
- [109:55]
Aaron Mate
And you're right, Maria.
- [109:57]
Buck Sexton
John Brennan testified to John Durham in August of 2020. He also testified to the House Oversight committee committee in 2022. Hillary Clinton testified before John Durham under oath in 2022. James Comey testified before the Senate committee in September 2020. All of that's within the last five years. And much of that testimony is, frankly, completely inconsistent with what our underlying intelligence that is about to be declassified in the Durham annex.
- [110:27]
Megyn Kelly
That's very interesting. I just want to Note, he mentioned September 2020. One of those other dates was August 2020 in connection with the Durham investigation. If that's. If those dates are operative and they're basing any sort of potential perjury charge or other charge on those dates, we could see indictments within the next 32 days because the statute is about to run and they have a deadline they have to get it in under. And we're almost there, Aaron.
- [110:56]
Aaron Mate
Yeah, we are. And can I make a point about media? The media here has an opportunity to question these key figures if they wanted to. John Brennan is an analyst at msnbc, and he's been interviewed now multiple times ever since Tulsi Gabbard's documents were released. MSNBC has never asked him about his testimony to Congress that the Steele dossier was not used for the intelligence community assessment, when that's just an obvious question. You told Congress one thing. This is what the documents say, that you relied on distilledssier. And in fact, Brennan fought to have it included because the quote was, according to one CIA official, that John Brennan said, it just feels right. Which meant it fell right to the conspiracy theory that he was pursuing as part of a plot to frame.
- [111:35]
Megyn Kelly
Can I show you something, Aaron? Please, can I show you something? I got to show you something. So John Brennan did go on MSNBC just the other day with Jen Psaki. This is last Wednesday. And the questioning was so pathetic, we did a montage of it because this is the entirety of what she asked him. Watch this. 44. I know you have been through a lot, but this is still a lot. What did I miss that people should understand here, don't you think? The timing is around the Epstein files and changing the subject. I mean, I was there just responsible for releasing things, not any of this. And I. President Obama wanted to make sure people understood, as you just said. And this is not something that the Russians see through a partisan lens in the sense of they could do it Again, many times. So everybody should have this information, which I think is important to know. Director Brennan, I'm so grateful that you're here. You never shy away from telling your story. Oh God, is it over, Aaron?
- [112:34]
Aaron Mate
That's what happens when you have a media in which one former government official interviews a former government official colleague and they've all been enlisted in this scam to fool the public into believing Trump was a Russian asset and won't take responsibility for it. I mean, the question is so obvious. You told Congress this, the documents show otherwise. What's your explanation? But this isn't journalism, it's just stenography and it's unfortunate and perhaps we'll get accountability through the judicial process. I gotta say it's very difficult though, to go after a former director of the CIA. That's a pretty, all of it's gonna be tough. But they, he's a very powerful person.
- [113:08]
Megyn Kelly
They do seem determined. And I mean, that's the problem with having gone after Trump is he's not really, I don't think he cares. Like, I think he's like, okay, you know, I've got a lot more on you than you guys ever had on me and you were full steam ahead against me. I want to give you one more from that Psaki Brennan interview. It's unbelievable. Listen to SOC 43.
- [113:27]
Aaron Mate
And the fact that Donald Trump now is saying that Barack Obama was the head of this conspiracy is just so absurd. Now I certainly understand why Donald Trump has such a deep seated inferiority complex vis a vis Barack Obama given their respective records. And also it's quite remarkable the coincidence of timing between the release of these documents that seem to have been put together just in a very short period.
- [113:50]
Buck Sexton
Of time as compared to these multi.
- [113:54]
Aaron Mate
Year investigations and reviews that were done about this issue and the furor that is around the Epstein files. So again, I think it's very suspicious as far as the motivations here.
- [114:07]
Megyn Kelly
That is incredible.
- [114:08]
Aaron Mate
Well, look, let's say it's true. Let's say Trump is motivated right now to distract from the Epstein thing because he feels he has something to hide and his base is angry. Even if that were 100% true, it wouldn't matter. The question is, is this material significant?
- [114:21]
Megyn Kelly
Is it real?
- [114:21]
Aaron Mate
Does it show malfeasance?
- [114:23]
Megyn Kelly
But the inferiority that is so ridiculous like that is absurd. That is a leftist dream.
- [114:29]
Aaron Mate
Well, Brennan's doing psychology. Look, and there's an irony here. I mean, Trump tried to frame Obama as being born in Africa when, you know, when he wasn't so Trump pushed, like the birther conspiracy theory. How did Democrats respond by their own conspiracy theory that he was being blackmailed by Vladimir Putin? It's truly the dumbest conspiracy theory of all time. And Democrats, having made the choice to elevate that as the way to resist Trump in his first term, they're still paying the price. And they should not feign outrage now or claim outrage now when there's demands for accountability, because a lot more people than Trump were hurt. You know, there were a lot of consequences. And so we do need these answers. At the very minimum, these declassifications by Tulsi Gabbard are very important. It should have happened a long time ago, but it speaks to the entrenched power of the national security state that this couldn't get out during Trump's first term because people around Trump didn't want released because if they didn't want to embarrass the CIA. But now, thankfully, we have different people who feel differently and are getting the truth out to the public.
- [115:28]
Megyn Kelly
I want to mention before we go, this Susan Miller, have you seen her? She's sort of surfacing around this whole thing. And Susan Miller is a retired CIA spy who says she led the team that helped draft that controversial 2016 U.S. intelligence Community Assessment on Russian election meddling. I think the one that ultimately hit in 2017. In January 2017, she says that she led that team. Well, it comes out now, just the news. Is Jerry Dunleavy reporting here, that she's a bit of a partisan hack. She has called Donald Trump a dictator. She's called MAGA supporters Nazis. And she insists that the now discredited Steele dossier quote might be true. Oh, is that all? I'm not shocked, but it is very interesting to get a closer look at the real feelings of the people who were behind that ultimate assessment.
- [116:27]
Aaron Mate
Aaron, what you had here in all these intelligence officials is a convergence of contempt for average voters who don't vote for the candidate they prefer, which is Hillary Clinton. We saw that with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page making fun of MAGA voters who go to Walmart. You know, just making fun of people. James Clapper, he talked about how, in his view, Russians are genetically predisposed to deceit. So he holds a bigoted view towards Russians. And he said, you know, I'm a cold warrior. And also he has a record, as he. I talked about earlier in the main interview that in his book, he admitted to fabricating intelligence for the Iraq WMD hoax. So you have a convergence of people who have contempt for average voters, the entitlement to believe that they can meddle in an election, and a real path, you know, a real, just hatred of Russia and a real aversion to talk about cooperation with Russia. It all converged here into this massive scam. And I'm not surprised at all to learn that yet one more official was afflicted by this. And yes, so partisan hackery is a recurring theme throughout this. I mean, Peter Strzok, there's that text message where he tells Lisa Page, yeah, don't worry, we're going to stop Trump. And basically the Russian investigation is an insurance policy against him. And some reason, for some reason we're supposed to take these people seriously and take their investigation seriously.
- [117:40]
Megyn Kelly
When she, she let me just give you one on this Susan Miller. So they, to their credit, the folks at Just the News reached out to her and her response was long. But I'll give you part of it first. She says your comments are mean spirited and uninformed. She doesn't like that they're, that they're, and by the way, their request for comment was so straightforward. They actually weren't mean spirited at all. She didn't like it. Then she tried to claim that I was originally pro Trump and a solid Republican since I could start voting. I even voted for him in his first election, which would have been months before that intelligence community assessment, so close in time. And then she goes off about how our constitution limits the president to two terms. Trump is already talking about a third. I refuse to put the dossier in our report as it could not be corroborated. Sorry to ruin your view of me as a left wing Republican hater. And then she goes on how she was out of overseas. I don't know. I, all I know is what she's saying. Literally, still to Almost this day, July 17, she gave an interview to Times Radio and here's what she said. 45.
- [118:46]
Aaron Mate
Have you seen or heard any information.
- [118:49]
Buck Sexton
Which seems to you credible evidence that.
- [118:52]
Aaron Mate
The President might be a Kremlin asset?
- [118:56]
Buck Sexton
Direct question. What do you say to that?
- [119:00]
Megyn Kelly
I say I have seen some things.
- [119:03]
Aaron Mate
I don't, I'm, I'm still working out whether or not it is true. But yes, there has been some information that's out there that's been on the web and some other things like that. Oh, that make it look like he could, could be.
- [119:19]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, okay.
- [119:20]
Aaron Mate
You can't share details of what you're referring to there. No, there was some, there was some posting I want to say a month or Two ago that made it sound.
- [119:34]
Megyn Kelly
Like there, there might be something there. This is what we're dealing with, Aaron.
- [119:40]
Aaron Mate
It's so embarrassing. It's, it's just so embarrassing. But this has been the norm. You're allowed to go on TV and accuse someone of being a Kremlin asset, the President of the United States of being a Kremlin asset, and not present anything to back it up. And when even given the minimal challenge of saying something, she can't offer anything. You know, Adam Schiff kept saying he had seen secret evidence of Trump Russia collusion, which he wasn't allowed to divulge. And he went on establishment networks and kept saying that. And the only time I've ever seen him subjected to actual real journalistic scrutiny was when he went on the View and a conservative guest co host actually challenged him on this and destroyed him. Because this was the first time that Adam Schiff had actually been challenged to substantiate his allegation that Trump was committing treason, including with Russia. And that's the norm here. It's just like this was abetted by a media class that let people go on TV and say the most insane things, launch the most wild accusations, and this was treated as normal. And so for people who are tired of the story, because it's been going on now for nearly nine years, it's understandable, but it's not going away because this was a, this is a massive scandal. A president, his campaign were framed as being agents of a foreign power. There was so much deceit to advance this scam and amazingly, we're still even learning details of it so many years later.
- [120:56]
Megyn Kelly
That conservative person was Morgan Ortegas, who did a great job and was never invited back again. Aaron, what a pleasure. Thank you for being so clear and so well informed on this has been a great service to our audience. I appreciate it.
- [121:12]
Aaron Mate
Thanks for having me.
- [121:13]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. We'll talk again coming up tomorrow. Our pal Walter Kern is here and also. And you'll figure out why the girlfriend of Kash Patel wanted to come on. You'll find out why. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.
- [121:43]
Aaron Mate
Not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has the spicy egg McMuffin for a limited time and lunch doesn't. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [121:57]
Buck Sexton
Hey, everybody. Conan O' Brien here with an ad about my podcast. Conan O' Brien needs a friend. I've had so many fantastic conversations with people I truly admire. People like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks, new episodes are out every Monday and we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.