AFL-CIO President Liz Shuler on Fighting Back Against Trump's Attacks On Workers

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast: AFL-CIO President Liz Schuller on Fighting Back Against Trump's Attacks On Workers

Release Date: April 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, hosts Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas delve into the pressing issue of union rights undermined by the Trump administration. Their special guest, Liz Schuller, President of the AFL-CIO, provides an in-depth analysis of the challenges facing federal workers and the broader labor movement. Through heartfelt stories, strategic insights, and unwavering advocacy, this episode underscores the critical fight to preserve workers' rights and support democracy.

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Personal Stories Highlighting the Crisis

The episode opens with a poignant story shared by a TSA baggage officer, Bobby, who has served at Dallas Fort Worth Airport for nearly 15 years. Bobby recounts the unpredictable and often distressing nature of his job, emphasizing the vital role he plays in national security.

Bobby (01:21): "I'm not going to lie, I like some of Trump's policies and that's the reason why I voted for him. But did I know it was going to threaten America, The America that I keep safe every day?"

Bobby's narrative serves as a microcosm of the larger issue: the erosion of union rights and the subsequent impact on workers' morale and efficacy.

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AFL-CIO's Stand Against Policy Attacks

Liz Schuller provides a comprehensive overview of the AFL-CIO's response to the Trump administration's aggressive stance against unions. With 15 million members across 63 different unions, Schuller outlines the federation's multifaceted approach to combating these challenges.

Liz Schuller (03:17): "These people aren't just numbers on a spreadsheet. They're human beings. They're the ones who keep our food safe, our water clean and care for our veterans when they come home and keep our airplanes safe in the sky."

Schuller emphasizes the human cost of political decisions that devalue and dismantle collective bargaining agreements. She highlights the emotional and professional toll on workers who have dedicated their lives to public service.

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Litigation as a Primary Strategy

One of the key strategies discussed is the AFL-CIO's aggressive litigation efforts to defend union members' rights. Schuller details several high-profile lawsuits initiated by the federation:

1. Probationary Workers' Firings: The AFL-CIO swiftly filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration's termination of probationary federal workers, asserting the illegality of these actions.

   Liz Schuller (06:35): "We filed that day, I think, or the next morning to say, this is an illegal action. We're not going to let you get away with it."

   The lawsuit successfully resulted in the reinstatement of these workers, showcasing the federation's commitment to legal avenues in protecting members.

2. Department of Government Efficiency Intervention: When the administration attempted to interfere with the Department of Labor by introducing a shadow department led by a controversial figure, the AFL-CIO responded with immediate legal action.

   Liz Schuller (06:35): "We filed a lawsuit there as well to put up some guardrails to say, we need transparency."

   This move was pivotal in safeguarding sensitive worker data and ensuring that whistleblowers remained protected.

3. National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) Chair Reinstatement: Following the illegal firing of the NLRB chair, the AFL-CIO took decisive action to seek her reinstatement, further illustrating their relentless pursuit of justice.

   Liz Schuller (08:35): "We filed a suit right away to get her reinstated."

These litigation efforts not only provide immediate relief to affected workers but also set precedents that protect the broader labor movement.

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Mobilizing Public Support and Grassroots Activism

Beyond legal battles, the AFL-CIO is actively mobilizing public support through rallies, protests, and coalition-building. Schuller discusses the importance of collective action in creating tangible change.

Liz Schuller (12:10): "We're starting with ladders of engagement. We doubled every single month."

The federation has launched initiatives like the Department of People Who Work for a Living, aiming to engage everyday Americans in understanding and advocating for workers' rights.

Liz Schuller (12:10): "We're the ones on the front lines who know the insides of these agencies, the work that is being done... interpreting what's going on."

This platform seeks to decode complex policy impacts and provide a space for workers to share their experiences, thereby fostering a more informed and active supporter base.

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Impact of Policy Changes on Federal Workers

The episode delves into the staggering 10,000 job cuts at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), many of which were reportedly made in error.

Liz Schuller (09:45): "These are the people we're relying on who are making sure that, you know, children are given the health care that they need. It is absolutely appalling."

Schuller highlights the reckless approach of eliminating jobs without proper cause, emphasizing the dire consequences for essential public services and the individuals who ensure their smooth operation.

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Building Coalitions and Future Strategies

Looking ahead, the AFL-CIO is focused on building coalitions with other unions and allies to amplify their impact. Schuller underscores the necessity of unity in the labor movement to face increasing challenges.

Liz Schuller (12:10): "We know in unions that's what we do. You're not powerless if you come together."

By fostering strong alliances, the AFL-CIO aims to create a resilient front against any future attempts to undermine workers' rights, ensuring sustained progress for the labor movement.

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Conclusion

This episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast offers a powerful exploration of the ongoing battle to protect union rights against political adversities. Through Liz Schuller's expert insights and heartfelt testimonies from affected workers, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the strategies employed by the AFL-CIO to defend and advance the interests of millions of American workers. The combination of legal action, public mobilization, and coalition-building exemplifies a robust and determined effort to uphold democracy and ensure that the dignity of work remains intact.

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Notable Quotes

• Bobby (01:21): "I'm not going to lie, I like some of Trump's policies and that's the reason why I voted for him. But did I know it was going to threaten America, The America that I keep safe every day?"

  • Timestamp: 01:21

• Liz Schuller (03:17): "These people aren't just numbers on a spreadsheet. They're human beings. They're the ones who keep our food safe, our water clean and care for our veterans when they come home and keep our airplanes safe in the sky."

  • Timestamp: 03:17

• Liz Schuller (06:35): "We filed that day, I think, or the next morning to say, this is an illegal action. We're not going to let you get away with it."

  • Timestamp: 06:35

• Liz Schuller (09:45): "These are the people we're relying on who are making sure that, you know, children are given the health care that they need. It is absolutely appalling."

  • Timestamp: 09:45

• Liz Schuller (12:10): "We're the ones on the front lines who know the insides of these agencies, the work that is being done... interpreting what's going on."

  • Timestamp: 12:10

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Subscribe and Stay Informed

For those passionate about workers' rights and the defense of democracy, subscribing to The MeidasTouch Podcast is essential. Join Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas every Tuesday and Friday morning for insightful discussions and breaking news updates on labor movements and political advocacy.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content sections have been excluded to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

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[Host]

We are hearing a lot of stories like this and credit to More Perfect Union for capturing this. One of these Trump voters who are either deeply regretting the vote that they made now that they're seeing their union rights absolutely gutted, or just feeling very concerned and alarmed right now and really don't know what to do, feeling betrayed and confused. I just want to share this with you. Go watch the full video that More Perfect Union release because I think they highlight this issue about the Trump regime tearing up the union contract covering 47,000 TSA workers. But that's a story that the Trump regime has repeated writ large across federal unions, generally invoking national defense and other war like powers to union bust. Got unions here. Listen to this story. It's an interesting one. And then we're going to bring in a special guest.

[Bobby]

I'm not going to lie, I like some of Trump's policies and that's the reason why I voted for him. But did I know it was going to threaten America, The America that I keep safe every day?

[Liz Schuller]

Bobby, a former Marine, has worked as.

[Bobby]

A TSA baggage officer at Dallas Fort Worth Airport for nearly 15 years. I've seen everything in a bag, from dead gerbils in a bag to a kitchen sink. You name it, I've seen it. I've opened a bag where it was a garbage bag and it was me full of maggots as a passenger. Do you want those maggots getting loose under the plane and getting in your bag? What I like about my job is I protect America. You know, I love protecting America. I love the people that I interact with, you know, because I'm a people person. People think it's a benign job, but it's a, it's an important job. If I have any suspicion at all, I check that bag because lives are at stake. It's not just a bag. That bag represents a life. What this current administration has done and they literally took away our bargaining rights. We signed a seven year contract in good faith. They think the union's a bad thing. We're not telling them how to do their job. We're just making our life more comfortable and they can concentrate on the security of people.

[Host]

It's a tragic story and it's a story that's being repeated. Millions of Americans union members are feeling that workers across the country are feeling that. Watch the full video. By the way, by more Perfect Union. They did a really great job there. Let's bring in Liz Schuller, president of AFL cio. I'm sure you're hearing these stories a lot as well. The AFL CIO has 15 million members, 63 different unions. You're standing up and defending all these federal workers and litigation, just generally. Liz, what are you hearing out there right now?

[Liz Schuller]

Well, that story was so familiar and I'm glad you captured it and started with that because that's what this is about. These people aren't just numbers on a spreadsheet. They're human beings. They're the ones who keep our food safe, our water clean and care for our veterans when they come home and keep our airplanes safe in the sky. So I think it just defies common sense, what's going on. So what I hear from workers is grave concern. The uncertainty they're feeling, the dehumanizing nature of what's going on where you work hard and serve the people in the jobs that you do and then are just basically cast aside like you're trash. So it's horrible.

[Host]

Yeah, you know, that's part of it too. I mean, the unjustified terminations. But then one of the things that I talk about a lot, it's like, it's like defamation too, because the people are being told that it's for performance reasons when it's not and they're being lied to. And it, and it takes the person's rips the people's soul.

[Liz Schuller]

Right.

[Host]

I mean, it's soul crushing.

[Liz Schuller]

It's about dignity. I mean, all work has dignity. And most of the work that's being done in the federal government is about services that we rely on that often are unseen that we take for granted until we don't have them. Right. So I think that we're going to start seeing the impacts of these cuts because it's really not six degrees of separation, it's two. Right. We all know someone or live next to someone in our neighborhood or, you know, depend on the services, like I said, our food safety. Who would have thought we'd have to worry about that? Right? So I think that's what we're talking about is humanizing what is happening out there.

[Host]

Let's take a look at the approach by the AFL ciu, AFL cio There has been a lot of lawsuits captioned AFL CIO versus the various departments and administrations. You didn't hesitate to defend the union members, the various unions, right away. Can you talk a little bit through the litigations at a high level that are taking place and the strategy to aggressively litigate. You weren't afraid. You didn't say, oh, well, then they may retaliate. You're like, they're already going after, you know, and there was no, there was no hesitation with the AFL cio. That's what I appreciated right away from the jump. Talk to us about that.

[Liz Schuller]

Yeah, thanks for that. And of course, we're a federation, as you said, an umbrella of 63 different unions, many of which are the federal unions representing workers like the American Federation of Government Employees, you know, the Professional and Technical Engineers Union, the National Federation of Federal Employees. So the FL CIO is a lead plaintiff in some lawsuits and a party to many others. And then certainly our unions themselves are filing these lawsuits because of the direct impacts. But the one that really started for us was the probationary workers that were fired. And we filed that day, I think, or the next morning to say, this is an illegal action.

[Host]

Right.

[Liz Schuller]

We're not going to let you get away with it. And that lawsuit prevailed. So we were happy when they restored the jobs of these probationary workers, who, as you know, many probationary workers are people who have worked in the federal government for some time, may have switched jobs and are on our probationary period and others who are new to the federal government. But as you said at the top, most of the firings that took place were unjust and without cause. And these were people who were performing and doing well in their jobs. The other lawsuit that I wanted to call attention to was the lawsuit when Doge, the quote, Department of Government Efficiency, decided they were going to go into the Department of Labor. And that day we stood up an emergency rally out in front and tried to essentially block him from entering. And of course they converted it to a virtual meeting, but they were going to be accessing private data of workers who were whistleblowers, for example, who would be working in an unsafe environment and raised their hand to say, wait a second, this is wrong, became a whistleblower, which is a confidential process. That's the kind of data we're talking about. Right. So we filed a lawsuit there as well to put up some guardrails to say, we need transparency. You don't get to just go in and access people's Data with these 20 something Silicon Valley tech people. This is highly sensitive and security related data. And so we also were able to prevail in that lawsuit. So we have here. We're happy for that. And also, not to mention the NLRB lawsuit where the National Labor Relations Board, which is the traffic cop for people who are courageously standing up to form unions and are often fired. Well, the chair of the NLRB was fired illegally as well. And so we filed a suit right away to get her reinstated.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, those are all big cases with massive implications. And we could probably spend an hour if we wanted covering each. Although the good news is, is we have a show, Legal af, where we do cover all of those lawsuits that you brought. But I want to just even talk about this, like, like these are the types of headlines we see on a daily basis. Like on Friday, RFK Jr says 20% of Doge's health agency job cuts were, quote, mistakes. Around a fifth of the 10,000 jobs cut from the U.S. department of Health and Human Services were done in error and need to be corrected. I mean, you're talking about 10,000 people losing their jobs. And they're saying, now these are human beings who have given their life to work jobs, who just want fair pay and to be treated with dignity. And then it's like, like, oopsies. Oopsies. Have you ever, you've been leading this union and you've been in the labor movement for a while. Have you ever seen anything like this?

[Liz Schuller]

I've never seen anything like it. It is absolutely appalling and offensive to think about what the carelessness with which they're approaching this, because I think about what you were just saying about those workers at hhs. And, you know, these are the people we're relying on who are making sure that, you know, children are given the health care that they need. I mean, it is, these are the services that people rely on on a daily basis that are taken for granted. And our union workers who work inside those agencies have been able to have a voice and speak out when they see something go wrong and not have to fear being fired in the past because they had a union contract. And that's why this action of last Thursday was so, so offensive, where President Trump basically, with the stroke of a pen, took away the collective bargaining agreements of 700,000 union workers. And the TSA worker at the beginning referenced this. TSA was separate and a precursor to that. But then they just went whole hog across the entire government and just basically canceled legally binding collective bargaining agreements that were negotiated in good faith and to cancel Someone's rights like that is a slippery slope. And for those out there listening who say, oh, wow, you know, it sucks to be a federal worker, they're coming after you next. This is essentially a beta test for how far they can go. Next will be, you know, rippling out over the public sector at the state and local level and then onto the private sector.

[Host]

So strategy is litigation, strategy is rallying people publicly. The strategy is building coalitions with other unions. The strategy also that I'm seeing AFL CIO promote protests, peaceful protests out and about. I saw the Post. We were covering this here all weekend, the April 5th hands off protest. I saw a repost from AFL CIO about that event right there. Can you talk to us about that? Mobilizing people to peacefully protest. And is that going to be part of a bigger strategy that you think may need to ramp up?

[Liz Schuller]

Absolutely. And this is about escalation. We're starting with ladders of engagement. You know, we started in January with during congressional recesses, both February and March. It doubled every single month. Actions all across this country to give people an outlet. You know, people are frustrated and they feel powerless. But we know in unions that's what we do. You're not powerless if you come together. And like you said, we're coming together collectively in coalition with all kinds of partners and allies and ramping up activity, showing up outside of government buildings to say, look, these are the services we rely on. These are the people who deliver them. We actually launched what we call the Department of People who Work for a Living. We said, if Elon Musk can stand up his own fake department of, quote, government Efficiency, we can have our Department of People who Work for a Living. Because we're the ones on the front lines who know the insides of these agencies, the work that is being done, who best to talk to than the workers. So we have a platform that we're actually using to interpret what's going on, because most people are working their day jobs. They hear a headline here or there, but they don't really understand what the impact is and how it affects them. So we're really hoping people will sign up as activists on the Department of People who Work for a Living, because that's a place where we can both decode what's happening and capture the stories of the impacts. And we're asking people to upload their.

[Host]

Stories when those stories get uploaded. They have a distribution hub here on the Midas Touch network to our 5 million million subscribers. You're always welcome here. Liz Schuller on the mic. We're so grateful for the work you're doing and the work the AFL CIO does every single day. Thank you so much.

[Liz Schuller]

Appreciate you being so such a great supporter and someone who's lifting up what's really going on out there.

[Host]

We appreciate you. We appreciate all the workers out there. Hit subscribe let's get to 5 million subscribers.

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