The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode: Andrew Ross Sorkin Discusses Trump’s Economic Debacle

Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, the Meiselas brothers welcome Andrew Ross Sorkin—New York Times bestselling author, co-host of CNBC’s Squawk Box, and author of 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History and How It Shattered a Nation. Together, they dive deep into the Trump administration’s economic claims, highlight false narratives about inflation and investment, draw lessons from the lead-up to the Great Depression, and debate the distressing realities facing working Americans under state-influenced capitalism. Sorkin’s insight, matched with the hosts' signature mix of rigorous analysis and lively banter, delivers an essential guide for listeners seeking to make sense of economic double-speak and its impact on democracy and daily life.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Trump Administration’s Dubious Economic Claims

[01:15 - 03:23]

• The episode begins by mocking Trump officials’ penchant for giving themselves "A+++" grades on the economy, contrasted against tough economic realities and contradictory statements about inflation.
• Manipulating Data: Trump’s spokespeople use misleading averages and cherry-picked metrics to inflate achievements.
  • Ben uses a humorous analogy: "I'm 40 years old. It would be saying like my average age is 20 years old. And using that I'm 20 years old—that's my average age." (02:31, Ben Meiselas)

2. Debunking the "Blue State Inflation" Argument

[03:23 - 04:20]

• Trump officials claim inflation is a blue-state issue; Sorkin references the Joint Economic Committee’s data showing highest inflation rates in red states, especially Florida.
  • Sorkin challenges: "Since 2021, the highest inflation of the past four years has been in red states, especially Florida. I'm talking about current, current, current, not over the past four years. Right. Today. Okay. I would think four years would be a reasonable trend line to look at today." (03:39, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

3. Andrew Ross Sorkin on Fact-Checking in Real Time

[04:58 - 06:54]

• Sorkin explains the difficulty of real-time fact-checking misinformation from administration officials.
  • Sorkin: "I think the role that I'm supposed to play is, to the extent that you can, [to] fact check in real time, which unto itself is a, is a complicated and oftentimes challenging thing to do..." (05:22)
• Recognizes that both the current and previous administrations have at times tried to "jawbone their way towards a specific goal, irrespective of the facts."
• He emphasizes the disconnect between official messages and everyday people's economic reality.

4. False Investment Claims & Press Release Economics

[06:54 - 11:29]

• Trump officials frequently announce massive investments ($23 billion, $7 billion, etc.), but realistic figures are much lower.
  • Sorkin: "Of the $23 billion figure that the administration's put out publicly, I think we'd be lucky if we get $7 billion... I said to the treasury secretary... just go with that number. Go with the 7 billion." (07:45, Andrew Ross Sorkin)
• The same pattern occurs with trade deals, such as promised soybean purchases by China: public claims don’t match actual sales.
  • Sorkin: "The end of the year is here... I think we've sold 300 some odd thousand metric tons. So, 300,000, how are you going to get to 12, 12 million? The math doesn't add, and you can never get a straight answer." (10:32, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

5. The Age of "Policy by Press Release" & The Investor Discount

[10:04 - 12:49]

• Sorkin argues savvy investors discount official announcements, recognizing that public investment commitments are often exaggerated or double-counted.
  • "We are living in a policy by press release environment... you have to almost put a haircut on it." (10:04, Andrew Ross Sorkin)
• Business leaders themselves play a role, making inflated public commitments for optics rather than substance.

6. Comparisons to the Roaring Twenties & Financial Crises

[15:08 - 19:43]

• Sorkin’s new book draws parallels between today's speculation, leverage, and lack of regulatory guardrails with the run-up to the Great Depression.
  • "The 20s were a great era of invention around new technologies... there were no rules back then. Manipulation, insider trading, all of that was allowed." (16:21, Andrew Ross Sorkin)
• He warns of the dangers of excessive debt and shadow banking, observing that today’s financial risks are opaque and spread outside traditional banks.

7. Growing Economic Inequality and Its Human Toll

[19:43 - 21:51]

• The discussion turns to the plight of the working and middle classes, who face mounting costs and stagnant wages while corporations thrive.
  • Sorkin: "The inequality issue is real, and I think it's getting worse. And I think the inflation is outpacing wages... you walk into a supermarket, you go get gas, you go to a restaurant—everything... the prices have risen so fast." (20:34, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

8. From Capitalism to State-Sponsored Capitalism

[21:51 - 23:06]

• Sorkin contends that Trump’s America is drifting away from traditional capitalism to a form of "state-sponsored capitalism" where major business decisions are dictated by political pressure.
  • "This is now we're into state-sponsored capitalism. I mean, this is not really capitalism. Everything runs through 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue now... this is completely and utterly new." (22:02, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

9. The Dilemma of Corporate America under Political Pressure

[22:43 - 24:53]

• Business leaders find themselves torn: oppose the administration and risk their companies, or acquiesce and hope to protect employees and shareholders.
  • "Some of these people are swallowing their pride, there's no question that they disagree with this president and, and yet they're going to the Oval Office and they're giving gifts... But they're thinking to themselves the alternative is worse than that." (23:39, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

10. Future of Work: Corporate Intentions and AI

[24:53 - 25:34]

• Hosts question whether corporations are simply waiting to replace most employees with AI.
  • Sorkin replies honestly: "A true capitalistic CEO would say, yeah, if we could get to a point where we can lower our costs, they would try to do that. They would want to do that..."

11. Ending on Guarded Optimism

[26:08 - 26:46]

• Sorkin concludes on a note of hope, encouraging civic engagement and vigilance.
  • "Sometimes people say, you know, America's exceptional and this and that. I don't believe that. I believe that you have to—we have to earn that exceptionalism every day. I do think there's a lot of smart people... who have a lot of ideas about what needs to happen to this country and they're using their voice." (26:08, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On inflation numbers manipulation:
  "I'm 40 years old. It would be saying like my average age is 20 years old. And using that I'm 20 years old—that's my average age."
  — Ben Meiselas (02:31)

• On fact-checking officials:
  "I think the role that I'm supposed to play is... to fact check in real time, which unto itself is a, is a complicated and oftentimes challenging thing to do."
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (05:22)

• On press release economics:
  "We are living in a policy by press release environment... you have to almost put a haircut on it."
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (10:04)

• On today’s economic reality:
  "The inequality issue is real, and I think it's getting worse. And I think the inflation is outpacing wages."
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (20:34)

• On the new face of capitalism:
  "This is now we're into state-sponsored capitalism... Everything runs through 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue now. This is totally... new."
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (22:02)

• On hope and civic duty:
  "I believe that you have to—we have to—earn that exceptionalism every day... if you feel dispirited, we will get to a better place."
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (26:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | | ----------------------------------------------------- | ----------- | | Trump’s A-plus-plus grades; inflation data manipulations| 01:15–03:23 | | Blue-state vs. red-state inflation dispute | 03:23–04:20 | | Andrew Ross Sorkin: Fact checking Trump economic claims| 04:58–06:54 | | The myth of massive foreign investment | 06:54–11:29 | | State-sponsored capitalism & economic control | 21:51–23:06 | | Inequality, affordability, and the human side | 19:43–21:51 | | Guarded optimism for American democracy | 26:08–26:46 |

Tone & Style

The episode skillfully blends sharp analysis, humor, and a touch of cynicism, all while remaining committed to truth and the defense of democratic values. Both the hosts and Sorkin maintain a frank, data-driven dialog, but with real empathy for ordinary Americans and a determination to cut through political spin with plain facts and historical perspective.

Takeaway

This is an essential listen for anyone trying to parse the realities behind economic headlines and official pronouncements. Sorkin's perspective, grounded in both history and the market’s hard realities, provides a much-needed counterpoint to political theater and spin, highlighting the danger of unchecked misinformation, the real toll on working Americans, and the crucial role of civic engagement and vigilance.