Carney Goes for Kill Shot in Saudi Arabia

Summary

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Episode Overview

Theme:
In this episode, the MeidasTouch Podcast analyzes a major shift in international relations as Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney visits Saudi Arabia, forging new economic partnerships while openly addressing human rights concerns. The episode contrasts Carney's diplomatic approach with Donald Trump's history of transactional, self-serving dealings with authoritarian leaders. Through a blend of news commentary, interview clips, and signature banter, the hosts explore the implications of the changing global landscape, declining U.S. influence under Trump, and Canada's bid for greater international relevance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Carney’s Strategic Maneuver in Saudi Arabia

• Dramatic Diplomatic Shift:

  • Carney’s direct engagement with Saudi Crown Prince MBS, openly discussing both partnership opportunities and value disagreements, marks a stark contrast from traditional U.S. diplomatic behavior.
  • MBS is now distancing himself from Donald Trump and appears betrayed by former alliances, particularly after the Trump-Netanyahu war against Iran, which left Saudi Arabia exposed.
  • “MBS feels utterly betrayed by Donald Trump... And we thought we were buying protection and we were defrauded.” — Ron Filipkowski [01:53]

• Canada’s Economic Ambitions:

  • Carney announces plans to double Canada’s non-U.S. exports and to catalyze $1 trillion in investment by 2030.
  • Highlights included signing 13 new Canadian-Saudi commercial agreements in critical minerals, infrastructure, AI, defense, and more.
  • “We’re growing jobs at twice the rate of the United States... We're now rated as the most attractive investment infrastructure destination in the world.” — Mark Carney [04:29]

2. Open Discussion of Values

• Addressing Human Rights:

  • Carney doesn’t shy away from confronting the divide in Canadian and Saudi values, setting a new precedent for direct yet pragmatic diplomacy.
  • “Engagement is not endorsement. Engaging with the country doesn’t mean that we agree with everything that a country is doing. In fact, I can’t think of a country on the planet we would agree with everything that they're doing.” — Mark Carney [09:18]
  • The hosts point out how rare it is for a leader to make this assertion while standing in Saudi Arabia.

• Practical Diplomacy:

  • Carney argues that it’s more effective to engage countries directly rather than lecture from afar, citing a recent success on a Canadian consular case in Turkey.
  • “Lecturing countries from afar is an ineffective strategy. It's satisfying, but it's ineffective. Engagement can be effective.” — Mark Carney [11:02]

3. Declining U.S. Influence and Trump’s Diplomatic Failures

• Trump’s Shifting Relationship with MBS:

  • MBS’s pullback from U.S. investments is a direct consequence of feeling "defrauded" by Trump’s actions.
  • Clips replay Trump’s transactional approach, including his insistent, performative handshakes and emphasis on loyalty from authoritarian leaders.

• Trump’s Problematic Foreign Policy:

  • Trump is criticized for his lack of coherent strategy, exemplified by his threats to pull troops out of Europe unless he gets concessions (in particular, Greenland), and for prioritizing personal or family enrichment over national interest.
  • “I grabbed that hand. I don’t give a hell where that hand’s been. I grabbed that.” — Donald Trump [03:10; 14:32]
  • “A lot’s going to depend on Greenland and a lot, a lot. I think, you know, make a very good deal on Greenland and if we don't, maybe I will.” — Donald Trump [15:23]

4. Canada’s Bid for Global Leadership

• Diversification Beyond the U.S.:

  • Carney underlines the risks of over-reliance on the U.S. and Canada’s aim to build international partnerships for greater independence and strategic capability.
  • “We're over reliant and that's been demonstrated. Every Canadian has very strongly recognized that and we're looking to diversify.” — Mark Carney [09:18]

• Firsts for Canadian Diplomacy:

  • Carney highlights that he’s the first Canadian PM to visit Saudi Arabia in 25 years and the first to meet with Turkish President Erdogan in over a decade — moves underscoring Canada’s proactive new international agenda.

• Active Engagement for Influence:

  • “Because we have influence and because we have partnerships, we have a greater chance of positive outcomes and positive progress.” — Mark Carney [12:17]

5. Signature MeidasTouch Analysis & Banter

• The brothers' typical banter and commentary thread the episode together, emphasizing the contrast between Carney’s policy-driven approach and Trump’s performative diplomacy.
• The hosts continually reinforce the episode’s central thesis: genuine engagement and values-driven diplomacy yield long-term benefits for democracy and global stability.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Canada’s Approach:

  • “Engagement is not endorsement... No country is Canada and we don’t even agree with everything that’s happening in Canada. Better is always possible, including for Canada.” — Mark Carney [09:18]

• On Trade and Economic Growth:

  • “We are embarking on a defense industrial build that’s half a trillion dollars. We’re growing jobs at twice the rate of the United States.” — Mark Carney [04:29]

• On Human Rights & Diplomacy:

  • “Lecturing countries from afar is an ineffective strategy. It's satisfying, but it's ineffective. Engagement can be effective.” — Mark Carney [11:02]

• Trump’s Contrasting Approach:

  • “They should blow them all away.” — Donald Trump [14:25]
  • “I grabbed that hand. I don't give a hell where that hand’s been.” — Donald Trump [03:10; 14:32]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 - 02:30: Background: Global leaders shun Trump as MBS distances Saudi Arabia from the U.S.
• 04:29 - 05:46: Carney announces major Canada-Saudi agreements and economic ambitions.
• 06:15 - 08:19: Details of Canada-Saudi business deals across multiple sectors.
• 09:18 - 11:02: Carney delineates the difference between engagement & endorsement and discusses practical results from diplomatic engagement.
• 12:17 - 14:04: Canada’s history and increasing engagement in the Middle East for greater influence.
• 14:25 - 16:05: Trump’s combative style and Europe’s indifference to Trump’s threats, contrasted with Carney’s nuanced approach.

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Summary of Contrast

• Carney: Modern, forthright, values-driven, leveraging engagement for influence and progress.
• Trump: Transactional, performative, self-interested, burning bridges with allies and authoritarians alike.
• The episode spotlights a pivotal moment as other global leaders, like Carney, seek to fill the diplomatic vacuum left by the U.S. under Trump, aiming for practical, ethical, and long-term gains for their nations.

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Transcript

[Ron Filipkowski]

Canadian Prime Minister Carney is making his move as mbs. The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is ghosting Donald Trump, as are many Mideast countries and many countries at the highest leadership level across the world. Let me explain to you what is happening, because following the NATO summit in Ankara, Turkey, Prime Minister Carney went to Saudi Arabia to meet with MBS and announce massive partnerships between Canada and Saudi Arabia. Notably, Prime Minister Carney, while in Saudi Arabia, also talked about human rights, also acknowledged that there are major disagreements between the values of Canada and Saudi Arabia. He acknowledged it head on with MBS standing right there. But Prime Minister Carney said it is important that we can still engage in partnerships for the economic benefit of Canadians. And through partnerships, we in Canada may be able to have a better influence on human rights and other important things to the Canadian people. Such a difference between Donald Trump and MBS's meeting, or Donald Trump and the meetings with authoritarians in general, where Donald Trump is that authoritarian bootlicker. Now MBS is ghosting Donald Trump. I just want you to think about it. When Marco Rubio went to the Middle east in order to try to undermine the MoU, which he's now done, but when he visited about two weeks ago or so, notably, he did not stop in Saudi Arabia, that would normally be the first stop for Rubio, that would be the first stop for a American diplomat because of Trump's prior relationship with mbs. But MBS feels utterly betrayed by Donald Trump. MBS is like, we've given you all of these things, Donald. I've personally given you, you and Kushner all of this money, all of these benefits. And you went to Netanyahu and did this unlawful and catastrophic war against Iran, and you exposed Saudi Arabia to massive damage. And we thought we were buying protection and we were defrauded. So you'll note how MBS has been pulling back on lots of investments in the United States.

[Donald Trump]

Lots of.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Lots of money pouring in from MBS into the United States has been clawed back. And that's a result of the betrayal that MBS feels that Donald Trump has engaged in with mbs. Prime Minister Carney knows that. So let me show you what Prime Minister Carney did when he was there. First. Let me just remind you, this is when Donald Trump was with MBS and he would, like, start grabbing and pulling at mbs and then they would post these weird photos together. Remember this last year, before Trump and Netanyahu launched the catastrophic war against Iran. Here, let's play this clip.

[Donald Trump]

Mr. President. And Trump doesn't give a fist pump. I grabbed that hand. I don't give a hell where that hand's been. I grabbed that. When, when, Remember Biden? He travels for 20 hours, gets out and he gives a fist bump. No, when you get out of the plane and you got the future king and a man who's one of the most respected people in the world, you shake his hand, you don't give him a fist bump, okay?

[Ron Filipkowski]

And then remember when Donald Trump's like, and I want MBS and Saudi Arabia to join the Abraham Accords with Israel, and Saudi Arabia's like, stop. We're not doing that until there's the Palestinian state, until there is a two states that we're not talking about the Abraham Accords. Stop asking us all of these things. I think also MBS and others see a deeply unserious United States, not just a dangerous one. I mean, what's Trump doing today? He's changing the columns to Corinthian columns in the White House and they're doing all this work in the front and back of the White House, which is again, a violation of the law. So in any event, Prime Minister Carney shows up in Saudi Arabia and first he talks about, we in Canada are looking to double our non US Exports and we're on track for that. Here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

We're looking to catalyze a trillion dollars of investment between now and the end of this decade. We are embarking on a defense industrial build that's half a trillion dollars. We're looking to double our non U.S. exports. We're on track for that. We're growing jobs at twice the rate of the United States. We're at the highest level of foreign direct investment in 20 years in Canada. It's running at twice the pace of our nearest G7 peer, adjusted for the size of the economy. We're now rated as the as the most attractive investment infrastructure destination in the world.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And then he holds a press conference where Carney talks about how Canada and Saudi Arabia have grown cooperation now across key sectors. Here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

I would like to thank His Royal Highness the Crown Prince and the Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia for his hospitality and for our rich discussions this afternoon. Canada and Saudi Arabia have growing cooperation across key sectors, some of which I've referenced, but also want to recognize the kingdom's broader efforts to promote regional stability and security.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And here he talks about all of the actual deals that Canada did with Saudi Arabia, not deals that Prime Minister Carney did to enrich himself and the Carney family. Right I mean, just the idea. Could you imagine if Carney was stock trading and doing deals for the Carney family? Like, it's such a ridiculous concept that you'd be like, okay, that's the craziest thing ever, but that's what the Trump regime does. But watch Prime Minister Carney talk about the deals here. Play this clip here.

[Mark Carney]

Today in Jeddah, we are building partnerships with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, harnessing the ambitions of our nations to catalyze greater security, prosperity and opportunity for both our peoples. We signed Canadian, I should say Canadian and Saudi businesses have signed 13 new commercial agreements across education, critical minerals and mining, energy infrastructure security, artificial intelligence in education, agreements to train workers in some of the Kingdom's most dynamic industries, building the skills that will power its next decade of growth in critical minerals and mining. New Canadian engineering partnerships are working on some of the most ambitious mining projects here, unlocking over $2 trillion of mineral wealth in energy and infrastructure. Canadian expertise is supporting roads, rails and urban development across the kingdom, along with clean building technologies that help it build sustainably and in defense and security. New training partnerships support the Kingdom's efforts to build domestic aviation and defense industry capabilities. Artificial intelligence, Canadian AI and health technology partnerships are helping to transform patient monitoring, diagnostics and surgical care. We're aiming to conclude negotiations with Saudi Arabia for a foreign investment promotion and protection agreement by the first quarter of next year. Canada's Minister of Finance, who's here, intends to lead a delegation of Canadian pension funds and their $2 trillion of capital to visit the Kingdom in coming months to identify new investment opportunities. And Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund fund will visit Canada in the fall, attending our Canada Investment Summit, which showcase some of our transformative projects. Canada is also announcing that we will participate in Expo 2030 here in Saudi, bringing Canadian projects expertise, showcasing the best of Canada at what will be a landmark event.

[Ron Filipkowski]

I'm going to show you in a little bit when Prime Minister Carney talks about engagement with other countries is not endorsement. And again, think about a leader saying that while actually in Saudi Arabia. I mean, think of that. To me, that's real power, that's real strength. But here he is talking about how he's going to lots of other countries after Ankara and Turkey to do deals, real deals, not fake Trump deals. Here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

So in four days, in three countries, we've worked to build our strength, to build trust with our allies, to build a new partnership with the world in this time of uncertainty. We're choosing to act, we're choosing to Build Canada strong.

[Ron Filipkowski]

So then he says engagement is not endorsement. We can engage, but we can still make clear that we're not compromising our human rights and values and principles in Canada. Again, just think about him saying this inside Saudi Arabia. Here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

We recognize a couple of things. One is that engagement is not endorsement. So engaging with the country doesn't mean that we agree with everything that a country is doing. In fact, I can't think of a country on the planet we would agree with everything that they're doing. First point, no country is Canada and we don't even agree with everything that's happening in Canada. Better is always possible, including for Canada. So that's the first. The second is that we recognize in a world that's more dangerous, that's more divided, a world where we need to diversify our partnerships, where we're over, we've become over reliant on a partner with whom we share many things. The United States, obviously we share many things and we value that partnership. But we're over reliant and that's been demonstrated every Canadians have very strongly recognized that and we're looking to diversify. So we are acting actively, engaging with key partners around the world. We are calibrating those engagements depending on alignment and depending on our interests. Part of our interest is to build our strategic capabilities. In other words, to build in areas that make Canada more resilient, stronger, more independent. And where there's complementarities.

[Ron Filipkowski]

We do that because Prime Minister Carney again, I think also throwing shade at Donald Trump, but also says lecturing other countries from far away may feel gratifying, it may feel satisfying, but is ultimately that effective in changing the direction or changing the policy or should there be other ways to go about that? Here's what he says here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

Lecturing countries from afar is an ineffective strategy. It's satisfying, but it's ineffective. Engagement can be effective. It doesn't mean it's always effective, doesn't mean it's decisive. It can be effective. We care deeply about human rights. We care deeply about self determination for nations. We care deeply about territorial integrity of nations. We care deeply about Canadian consular cases. I addressed a Canadian consular case in, in Ankara, Yes. Two days ago. And because I was with the President, it was addressed favorably. If I sat in Ottawa and pointed out all the things that I we or it might not agree with, with what Turkey has done or is doing or might do, I wouldn't have had that conversation. I wouldn't have had that impact. That's A small example, but it is an example of a broader point.

[Ron Filipkowski]

He then talks about how we recognize as a government the importance of countries that are active and influential. And because we have influence, we have partnerships, we can potentially in Canada help make positive outcomes. Here, play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

We recognize as a government the importance of countries that are active and influential in geographies in the world and in situations in the world about which we care deeply. Canadians Canada has always cared deeply about the Middle East. Canadians Canada has, has since before Diepen Baker. I'm going to stretch it back. Well, I should back to. Well, since 1948 actually has supported a two state solution. I'll give the example of the two countries that I've been to on this trip, two of the most influential countries with respect to potential solutions there are Saudi Arabia and Turkey. We need to engage with these countries. We need to be speaking with, we need to, to work with them. That, that doesn't mean that they have the key to unlock things. But not being engaged, not talking to them on an on, on level. I'm the first prime minister to come here in 25 years. I was the first Prime Minister to speak to President Erdogan in over a decade. Speak to him. I will meet with him. And so it's about recognizing where we can have influence, where we can build resilience, independence, strength, Canada, calibrating appropriately and also creating a situation and a dialogue where we can raise issues. And because we have influence and because we have partnerships, we have a greater chance of positive outcomes and positive progress.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And again, just think about the contrast between that and Donald Trump in Saudi Arabia where Donald Trump says, does Trump blow them all away? Does Trump blow them all away? Here, watch what he says. Here, play this clip. And Reagan, he's one of the historical president that have close ties with Saudi Arabia. We've worked with all presidents.

[Donald Trump]

They should blow them all away.

[Ron Filipkowski]

It's another league, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

And Trump doesn't give a fist bump. I grabbed that hand. I don't give a hell where that hand's been. I grabbed that.

[Ron Filipkowski]

That was Trump with MBS in 2025. Lastly, as Donald Trump was landing on Air Force One, you saw by now he talks about, you know, attacking Europe, pulling troops from Europe. And as this politician from Denmark, Rasmus Jarloff says, we don't care. These threats don't work anymore. Pull your troops, don't pull your troops out. Let them stay. Whatever. It's not going to have any influence on the fact that we're not giving you one square centimeter of Greenland. Think about the different approaches here. Carney and Trump here. Play this clip. Trump.

[Donald Trump]

Now, they may have been different if the press was there, but it was tremendous unity and togetherness. It was, it was quite nice.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Are you going to pull more U.S.

[Donald Trump]

troops out of Europe and if so,

[Ron Filipkowski]

how many and where specifically?

[Donald Trump]

I haven't made that final. A lot's going to depend on Greenland and a lot, a lot. I think, you know, make a very good deal on Greenland and if we don't, maybe I will. And a lot to dependent on Iran. I mean, they, they want to help. Now, you know, it's a little late to the thing because essentially there's not that much fighting to be done, but some will depend on Iran. When they had a chance, an opportunity to help, they chose not to. So but we're sort of forgetting about that. And now they want to help. They all want to go. They want to help on Iran so badly. But we don't really need help. It's literally things, but we don't really need it.

[Mark Carney]

Did President Al Shara make any commitments to you?

[Ron Filipkowski]

There you have it, folks. Let me know what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 7 million subscribers and thanks for watching everybody. Want to stay plugged in? Become a subscriber to our [e-mail] you'll get daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski, ad free episodes of our podcast and more exclusive content only [e-mail].