Chris Hayes on Standing Up to Trump Regime

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast: Chris Hayes on Standing Up to Trump Regime

Date: November 13, 2025
Guests: Chris Hayes (MSNBC/MS Now), Host: MeidasTouch Network (Ben, Brett & Jordy Meiselas)
Length summarized: ~[01:17]–[19:54]

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the MeidasTouch brothers are joined by Chris Hayes of MSNBC (recently rebranded as "Ms. Now") for an in-depth conversation on the current state of American politics under Donald Trump. The group explores the spread of disinformation, the public's adaptation to political abnormality, the importance of moral and journalistic clarity, and the responsibility of media in the preservation of democracy. Special focus is given to recent election outcomes, Trump’s economic claims, and the launch of the Ms. Now newsroom.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Disinformation & Truth Social’s AI Fact-Checks

([01:17]–[04:18])

• The podcast opens with discussion about Truth Social’s new “Truth Search AI,” which, ironically, contradicts Trump’s own claims:
  • On tariffs: AI admits tariffs “are taxes ... costs are borne mainly by American businesses and consumers.”
  • On 2020 election lies: AI confirms “courts, Trump’s own advisors, and official investigations found no evidence” of a stolen election.
  • On January 6th: AI attributes the attack directly to Trump’s rhetoric.
  • On Trump’s economic claims: AI refutes Trump’s boasts about trillions in revenue; labels them as fabrications.
• The hosts note a palpable shift in recent election results: "People are just sick and tired of the gaslighting and the constant barrage of lies." ([02:44] Interviewer)

2. Election Trends in Virginia and National Implications

([04:18]–[05:06])

• Chris Hayes: Observes a “wholesale shift” toward Democrats, not only in urban/suburban counties but also in rural, traditionally “Trumpy” areas.
  • Notable Quote:

  “Everything [is] moving towards the Democrats, including the Trumpy counties, and in demographics too. So young people, men, women.” ([04:25] Chris Hayes)

3. Trump’s Economic Promises & Lies About Inflation

([05:06]–[06:53])

• Chris Hayes: Dissects Trump’s overpromising:
  • Trump “promised prices would come down” – an unrealistic pledge outside economic depression/recession.
  • In reality, “prices are going up by more,” largely due to Trump’s tariffs, not macroeconomic factors beyond presidential control.

  “Lying about [inflation] so flagrantly is a really tough one to get away with.” ([06:53] Chris Hayes)

• Tariffs are directly blamed for worsening inflation; Biden couldn’t control inflation spikes driven by events like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, contrasting with Trump’s direct interventions.

4. Flood of Disinformation & the Challenge for Journalists

([07:00]–[07:35])

• Ron Filipkowski: “He floods the zone with 10,000 lies a day... it’s hard to keep track.”

• Chris Hayes: His approach is to ignore the noise and focus on the core mission: “To tell the truth and act as part of a broader effort across civil society to preserve American democracy in the face of its foes.” ([07:49])

  “I don’t care what people are saying about me ... I know what we’re trying to do: Tell the truth and ... preserve American democracy.” ([07:38]–[07:49] Chris Hayes)

5. Selecting Which Stories Matter

([08:20]–[09:24])

• Hayes explains the nuance in news coverage: balancing stories’ moral urgency with their ability to resonate. Some stories, like SNAP benefits ending or USAID being defunded, are deeply consequential but “remote,” while symbolic examples (like the infamous “ballroom” party) help connect viewers emotionally to larger issues.

  “There’s always this kind of calibration ... what story you’re trying to tell and where you’re trying to focus attention.” ([09:24] Chris Hayes)

6. Trump’s Erratic Behavior and Media Normalization

([09:53]–[14:40])

• Hosts and Hayes: Highlight the normalization of Trump’s extreme or bizarre behavior (erratic posts, calling for Obama’s imprisonment, public oddities).

  • Comparison: If any other leader—or even a coworker—behaved this way, “you’d be like, buddy, you okay?”
  • Hayes notes the glaring double standard in media focus on Biden’s age versus Trump’s much more blatant decline (falling asleep during events, confusion about basic facts like mortgage terms).

  “It’s weird that everyone just stopped applying ... those two obvious truths [about age and fitness] to the situation we’re in now ... with an even older person ... on an accelerated aging schedule.” ([12:54] Chris Hayes)

• On Trump not knowing a 30-year mortgage is standard:

  “The man doesn’t know what the standard mortgage is. That would be a big story in other environments; with him, it’s like, barely makes it ... for more than five minutes.” ([14:32] Chris Hayes)

7. The Danger of Acclimation to Abnormality

([15:35]–[17:14])

• Hayes discusses how people become numb (“acclimate”) to continual norm-breaking and how that undermines the nation’s political and moral fabric.

  “If you had a coworker who every day was in the Slack channel saying crazy things like that ... if they never got fired ... you start to tune them out ... That acclimation process ... is really, really insidious.” ([16:08]–[17:14] Chris Hayes)

8. The Ms. Now (formerly MSNBC) Relaunch

([17:18]–[19:43])

• Hayes shares excitement about the channel’s rebranding:
  • The newsroom is now "solely devoted" to their mission: “tell the truth ... report the stories that matter to our audience, that matter to the survival of American democracy ...”
  • Audience will see no change in channel or programming; the difference is an empowered, mission-focused newsroom.

  “We are really creating now this media organization that's just fully committed to the mission ... in a way that was never quite possible ... This is the first time ... we now have this dedicated newsroom of all these great reporters ... rowing in the same direction.” ([18:04]–[19:28] Chris Hayes)

• Visual/tone humor:

  “We’re going to bring the name prices down.” ([17:59] Chris Hayes)

---

Memorable Quotes

• On truth and democracy:

  “We got a job to do ... Tell the truth and act as part of a broader effort ... to preserve American democracy in the face of its foes. That’s really the project right now.”
  – Chris Hayes [07:38–08:01]

• On normalization of abnormal behavior:

  “That acclimation process is really, really insidious.”
  – Chris Hayes [17:14]

• On the danger of continual lies:

  “Lying about [inflation] so flagrantly is a really tough one to get away with.”
  – Chris Hayes [06:53]

• On older leaders and media hypocrisy:

  “It’s weird that everyone just stopped applying ... those two obvious truths [about age and fitness] to the situation we’re in now ... with an even older person ... on an accelerated aging schedule.”
  – Chris Hayes [12:54]

• On the new Ms. Now:

  “This is the first time ... we now have this dedicated newsroom ... trying to fulfill our mission ... to the survival of American democracy ...”
  – Chris Hayes [19:02–19:28]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:17] - Truth Social AI fact-checks Trump
• [04:18] - Chris Hayes analysis of Virginia’s county shifts
• [05:23] - Hayes on impossibility of Trump’s inflation promises
• [07:38] - Hayes on “telling the truth” over backlash
• [09:24] - Story selection tradeoffs in political coverage
• [11:37] - Hayes on Trump’s mental decline and media fixations
• [12:54] - Media’s “double standard” on age between Trump and Biden
• [14:32] - Trump’s confusion about 30-year mortgage
• [15:35] - Moral clarity and acclimation to abnormal politics
• [17:18] - The rebrand to Ms. Now and newsroom focus

---

Conclusion

This episode provided a robust critique of Trump-era politics, the modern media environment, and the dangers of public acclimation to crisis and disinformation. Chris Hayes emphasized the journalist’s duty to remain focused on core democratic values and maintain moral clarity—especially as his network (now Ms. Now) launches its most dedicated, mission-aligned newsroom to date. The episode is both a sobering look at current challenges and a hopeful call for truth and resilience in defense of democracy.

Transcript

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[Ron Filipkowski]

Trump's media company truth Social, not only does it seem to be a failing business, I mean we saw last quarter millions of dollars being lost there, but.

[Interviewer]

It now seems to be fact checking Donald Trump a new Trump AI feature Truth Search AI when you plug in some search queries about what Trump's doing, Let me give you some example. Hat tip to Jared Poland and the Bulwark on this one. For example, you ask Truth Search AI Do Trump's tariffs cost the American people money? It answers yes. Tariffs are taxes on imports that US Importers pay and largely pass on through higher prices. So the costs are borne mainly by American businesses and consumers. You ask Truth Search AI Did Donald Trump lie about the 2020 election being rigged and stolen? Answer from Truth Search AI yes. Courts Trump's own advisors and official investigations found no evidence that the 2020 election was rigged or stolen, despite his repeated claims. Question did People storm the U.S. capitol on January 6, 2020 because of Donald Trump? Truth Search AI Yes. Multiple officials and contemporaneous records attribute the January 6, 2021 Capitol breach to a pro Trump crowd, mobil selection fraud claims and pressure campaign to stop certification. Another question how Many wars has Trump ended since taking office in 2025? Truth search AI answer none. There is no verified instance of President Trump formally ending a war since taking office in January 2025. And you could enter your search query like, did Donald Trump actually bring in $18 trillion? And will he bring in $23 trillion? And it will answer, no, he's making this number up. The entire GDP of the United States is only 27, $28 trillion. He's not brought in any of this. The tariffs at most have brought in 200, $300 billion. And I think if you look back at the election last Tuesday, beyond just the politics here, people are just sick and tired of the gaslighting and the constant barrage of lies, you know, and I would wonder what you put in that query. Are prices going down right now? Has Donald Trump defeated inflation? And the answer will be no. But Trump's out there every day saying there's no more inflation. That saying that there's inflation or that affordability is an issue is a hoax. And people know this stuff isn't a hoax. Everything to Trump, this is a hoax. That's a hoax. People are suffering right now. And Donald Trump continues to lie, the regime continues to lie. And we've seen Trump supporters, we've seen independents overwhelmingly shift to the Democratic Party, I think, as a, as a rebuking of Donald Trump on Tuesday. Let me share this with you, Chris Hayes of msnbc, which will be known as Ms. Now soon. Here he is talking about what went down on Tuesday. Play this clip.

[Chris Hayes]

What you see in Virginia tonight, if you look at county level, is basically every single county moving towards Democrats, including.

The rural ones, right?

So one of the things we saw in the Trump years was you'd have these nights where the top line would be the Democrats are doing well, or Trump is, you know, Republicans are doing well. But when you went down, you saw the Trumpier counties getting Trumpier and the non Trumpier counties getting even non Trumpier. What we're seeing tonight, Virginia, if you look at the county level, everything moving towards the Democrats, including the Trumpy counties, and in demographics too. So young people, men, women. So what we're seeing is like a real kind of wholesale shift as opposed to just the continuation of those, all of these.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Now, let's bring in Chris Hayes of msnbc, soon to be known as Ms. Now.

[Interviewer]

Chris, it's great to see you. So is Donald Trump going to have to sue for billions of dollars his own social media platform right there. People want the truth right now, right? And to Me, when Trump just continues to lie, it's just at odds with what people are experiencing.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I think it's particularly true on.

The economy where it's just really hard to tell people.

I mean, keep in mind, he didn't.

Say we're going to bring inflation down.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Chris Hayes]

Inflation is the rate of growth, of prices.

He couldn't say we're going to get.

Inflation back to 2%.

His promise was prices will come down. Now, prices coming down is an almost impossible promise to deliver on unless you.

Induce a recession or a depression. Inflation is just part of the way that modern economies work. There's always some inflation, some price rise.

So the promise he always, he overpromised. And now they're under delivering because not only are prices not coming down, they're actually going up by more. We've seen inflation tick up, and largely that's driven not by macroeconomic conditions, like.

What happened in, for instance, you know, January, February 2022, when Russia invaded Ukraine and oil prices spiked and we saw inflation go up to 9%. We, Joe Biden couldn't do anything about that. Right.

It's the unilateral application of the tariffs. So it's a crazy situation in which he promised to bring down prices, which.

He can never really do.

Prices are going up, he's lying about it. And also the thing that's driving the increase in the rate of prices going up is the unilateral application of literally hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars in terrorists that he alone has put on the entire thing is, is completely a lie. And I do think it's one of those situations where, you know, there's big lies, there's little lies.

There are lies about trivial things, there's lies about central things. But lying about that so flagrantly is a really tough one to get away with.

[Ron Filipkowski]

You know, he floods the zone with 10,000 lies a day, it seems, at this point, and he floods the Zone with so much information, it's hard to keep track of it all.

[Interviewer]

Just what's your approach, Chris, in terms of your reporting?

[Ron Filipkowski]

What, when you're delivering this to the audience on MSNBC or Ms. Now to say, here's what we need to be.

[Interviewer]

Focused on right now, here are the issues that matter. And how do you try to remain fearless in the face of the barrage of attacks that you personally come under and your network comes under?

[Chris Hayes]

Well, to take the last question first.

Like, I don't care what people are saying about me or us or whether.

It'S the president or Republicans Like, I got. We got a job to do. I know what we're trying to do.

Which is tell the truth and.

Act.

As part of a broader effort across civil society to preserve American democracy in the face of its foes. That's really the project right now.

And just.

And to eventually get to a point where you see a more just and thriving country than the one we have now.

So I don't, you know, I really.

Don'T, day to day, minute to minute, care that much about whatever is being said about me or about us in.

Terms of what we do. We do try to focus on what.

Is true and what's not.

We, you know, there's a certain degree to which you're always calibrating how much.

Are you chasing the ball that he kicked and how much are you trying to assert what's important. Certain stories, like the shutdown, they just are the story. And they're both substantively important, and I think they're compelling to people.

Sometimes with something like the ballroom.

The ballroom.

Such an interesting story because substantively, again, in the.

In the ranking of things he's done, for instance, like unilaterally destroy usaid, perhaps killing hundreds of thousands of people, that's not even an exaggeration. You know, getting rid of a ballroom doesn't have the same moral weight, but.

It also just symbolically, viscerally, narratively packs a real punch. And so we're sort of always balancing those different things. Sometimes there are stories that are really weird, morally urgent, but a little remote.

Sometimes there stories that are really, really.

Visceral, that are less morally urgent, but.

They tell a story. Sometimes those two overlap is in the case of, like, SNAP benefits running out.

There's always this kind of calibration of.

These different, you know, these different equities at stake in terms of what story you're trying to tell and where you're trying to focus attention, you know.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And I think that Ballroom also serves as a connective tissue to the USAID dismantling. When you look at the Great Gatsby parties and you see, here are where his priorities are. Here's 42 million Americans losing SNAP. Here's USAID being defunct.

[Interviewer]

Here's 20 million Americans having their health care ripped away, but they're having a grand old time at a party where the theme is a little party never killed nobody, as people are. As people are dying. But on any given day, though, like, just take this morning while we're recording this. I just checked. I just said, what's he posting? I've got Chris Hayes going on, like, what's Donald Trump even saying today? Where in any other time, someone who behaved and made these posts, this would be front page news everywhere. 25th amendment, like, this is just this morning before you and I did this interview, he goes the real shutdown story. And he's posting an account, May 15 prophecy. It's a Trump prophecy account that when you get into it, all these bizarre claims that he sent from other world, like, very strange. Then he posts patriotic pinups, half naked women dressed like in bikinis and American flags. And then he follows it up by saying that former President Barack Obama should go to prison for a Russian collision. Not collusion, but Russian collusion. Now, had any person make these posts, if Obama posted this, if Biden, your.

[Chris Hayes]

Coworker, forget the president. If your friend, forget the president. If your friend or your co worker, you'd be like, buddy, you okay? How are you doing? I feel like things, something's up with.

You, what's going on.

[Interviewer]

But you've gone there and lots of reporters don't go there. I mean, like you've talked about, like, look at what this guy's saying. Like, look at his. Let me show you this, Chris. This was what you were focused on as we were focused on during the campaign. Let me just show this report that you did and then let's talk about it. Let's play it.

[Chris Hayes]

Good evening from New York, I'm Chris Hayes. We've got some breaking news tonight. An exclusive all in scoop. It's this. Donald Trump is 78 years old. Did you know that if elected, he will be the oldest person to ever be sworn in as president United States? He is a man that is suffering from, I think, pretty obvious mental decline. But in contrast to the breathless coverage of Joe Biden's age and fitness, which again, made certain amount of sense prior to his dropping out of the presidential race, we are not seeing nearly as much discussion about Trump's diminished mental acuity.

[Interviewer]

Chris, I think it's so important that.

[Ron Filipkowski]

You focused on that then we did. Many others didn't talk to us about that.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I mean, I think he doesn't.

I mean, with him it's always weird because he's always been so addled as long as he's been in the public eye. But it is strange the degree to which, like so much of that story.

In 2024 was about Biden's age.

And it was very clear that A.

Biden was the oldest man who'd ever occupied the office, and B, that we.

All know the presidency Ages people quickly, right? So when you combine those two things.

If you have someone who's already fairly advanced years and they, they're aging quickly, like it can have a real effect. And I think that was the, you know, part of what happened to Joe Biden.

It's weird that everyone just stopped applying those two things, those two obvious truths to the situation we're in now where they elected an even older person who also is on an accelerated aging schedule. I mean, his nickname for Joe Biden.

Was Sleepy Joe Biden.

He literally fell asleep for 20 minutes in a White House event the other day in front of the camera. I don't think Joe Biden ever fell.

Asleep on camera for 20 minutes.

And this isn't even like there's a lot of things that are uniquely awful about Donald Trump. This isn't even a uniquely awful thing about Donald Trump. The guy's 80 years old.

He's 79.

Yeah, he's probably been up all day. The President, he fell asleep in the middle of a meeting. But again, that is a problem, right? Like, didn't we have a whole huge thing about this just exactly one year ago? And you also see it how, I don't know if it's aging.

It's his particularly is his particular variety of being addled or it's how out of touch he is. But even just the last day when he had the exchange with Laura Ingram where she said, you really think a.

50 year mortgage is a good idea?

Which obviously is like a ludicrous idea.

On its face, and he said, well.

It'S just 10 years more than what is now 40 year mortgage. And she's like, no, it's a 30 year mortgage.

And that's another one of those examples of the kind of thing that for.

Most of my life covering politics, if the President United States didn't know what a standard term on a mortgage was, the 30 year mortgage, the 30 year fixed mortgage. We all know the 30 year fixed mortgage. It's like the pillar of American homeownership going all the way back to the aftermath of the New Deal and the aftermath of World War II. Everyone has who's a homeowner basically has interacted with a 30 year mortgage.

The man doesn't know what the standard mortgage is. That would be a big story in other environments with him. It's like barely makes it for a.

Story for more than five minutes.

[Interviewer]

Right. And then there's just the issue that.

[Ron Filipkowski]

We were talking about before. I just think moral clarity. Right. As you said, if I had a friend Or a coworker, or just somebody I knew who behaved this way, who posted those types of things, who conducted themselves the way he does. I mean, what the other day, Donald.

[Interviewer]

Trump post, air traffic controllers, get back to work now, exclamation point. I'm putting you on a list. Like, if someone who you worked with behave that, we'd be like, who is this? Who is this guy? And so I just think there's also this recognition sometimes when we cover politics, like a horse race, this party, that party, this day, that day, who's winning, who's losing, we lose some sight of the moral clarity of like, is this a good person? Like, why are they behaving badly? And do I want my kids to behave like that?

[Chris Hayes]

Part of it, too, is just this.

Process of acclimation, which is a part of. It's just a human issue, right? Like, human beings acclimate to all sorts of crazy scenarios. And that acclimation process is part of what makes humans so incredible as a species, so adaptable, so able to live in environments from Amazon to the Arctic. Humans can get used to things.

And part of what's happened with Donald.

Trump use this cliche of normalization, but.

It'S just part of it is just the acclimation process.

If you had a coworker who acted like that, to go back to the way we're discussing it, if you had a coworker who every day was in the Slack channel saying crazy things like.

That, your initial reaction would be like.

What is going on with this guy?

If they never got fired and they never got held to account and they just continued being like that, at a certain point, you start to tune them out. You would. Now, it would be toxic in many.

Respects for the workplace and for the organization that tolerated that behavior and would have all.

It would have to start to have all sorts of insidious effects for people.

Around this co worker.

People would probably leave the job, right?

It would be harder to hire other people.

There's all sorts of reasons to be bad. But for those who are, say, stuck with the job and those who are sitting there next to this co worker.

Every day being a ranting maniac, you.

Would have to find some kind of.

Way to get used to it.

And I think that kind of describes.

A lot of what's so broken right now, both in the sort of way the public discourse operates, both in just like the general press and politics is.

That people have found whatever way, even if they don't approve of it or.

They, when they take a step back.

They realize how crazy it is.

There's an acclimation process that's happened with him that is really, really insidious.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And before we go, msnbc, name change, Mississippi.

[Interviewer]

Now, as it embarks, as you embark.

[Ron Filipkowski]

On this next chapter in the Ms.

[Interviewer]

Now phase, what should we expect?

[Ron Filipkowski]

I mean, leaning in more on digital stuff as well?

[Interviewer]

I mean, talk to us about, I.

[Chris Hayes]

Mean, the biggest, the coolest thing about.

The change and like, the name changes basically doesn't matter at all, at least from the, from the perspective of, like, what the channel is and what we're delivering. It's just. It's just a new name, barely a new name. It's. What is it? It's. Is it 40% of a new name.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Two letters, five negative, 1700% of the new.

[Chris Hayes]

We're going to bring the name prices down. So the most exciting thing is that.

We are really creating now this media organization that's just fully committed to the mission that we have in a way.

That was never quite possible when we.

Were part of NBC News. And that's no knock on NBC News. NBC News is a different mission than we do. We're doing slightly different things. There's overlap, but that overlap meant that.

We couldn't produce a newsroom that was.

Solely devoted to making, doing MSNBC, MSN, MSNow reporting and MSNow content and Ms. Now across all platforms. And like the MSNow vision of the.

World, now we have that for the first time. And I've been here, I've been at.

Ms. Now for what, 14 years, since 2011, as a contributor before that. So I've been hosting a show for 14 years. I've been part of the network for 15 or 16 years. This is the first time in my time here that we now have this dedicated newsroom of all these great reporters.

Who are out there, all of all.

Oars rowing in the same direction, trying to fulfill our mission, which is to kind of tell the truth as we see it, report the stories that matter to our audience, that matter to the survival of American democracy, that point towards a future that is going to be more just, more equitable and where all Americans can thrive. And that's a really exciting thing that we've never had before in my entire career.

So that, that, that is the most. That's the biggest change from the audience perspective. There's zero change. Like, we're on the same channel, on.

The same tv, the one you got.

Mounted on your wall.

The same time.

Just press the same button. It's right there. We're not going anywhere.

From our perspective, the really exciting changes is creating this entirely new newsroom.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Chris Hayes, Mississippi. Now. Thanks for joining us. We hope you come back.

[Chris Hayes]

Really enjoyed it.

I'll come back for sure.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Everybody hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million subscribers. Want to stay plugged in? Become a subscriber to our [e-mail] you'll get daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski, ad free episodes of our podcast and more exclusive content only [e-mail].