Loading summary
Transcript21 lines
- [00:00]
Host
Let's talk to two Democratic senators who are aggressively pushing back against Trump and Musk and Doge. Let's welcome Democratic senator from Connecticut, Chris Murphy. Democratic senator from Virginia, Tim Kaine. Senators, welcome both of your first times on the show, but let's get right into it right away. Senator Murphy, your response to all of the markets crashing right now, what Donald Trump's done with all of these tariffs against the world. He called it Liberation Day. We call it here, Recession Day, Annihilation Day. What are you seeing?
- [00:35]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, listen, these guys are the Keystone Cops. You saw it last week with Signal Gate, you're seeing it now with tariffs. These guys don't know how to run a country. They don't know how to run an economy. This is going to be an absolute disaster for consumers. Prices are going to go sky high. The jobs are not going to show up. You know, the fact of the matter is, yeah, there's a world in which tariffs can help restart American jobs, but you have to pair the tariffs with domestic industrial policy incentives for companies to locate here. They're not doing that. So the only people that are going to feel pain are consumers. But, you know, I've got a little different theory of the case on this, and then, you know, obviously, I'd love to hear Tim on it, but you know, this, this is also a political tool for Trump. You see what he's doing with these universities, with these law firms penalizing them and making them come to him to pledge loyalty. I think it's likely the same thing could happen with the tariffs, that each big company or each big industry is going to have to come to Trump, get some tariff relief in exchange for political loyalty, in exchange for a commitment to buy Trump crypto coin or a commitment to make sure their workers and employees don't speak up against Trump. I think he's trying to destroy democracy. And the reason that these tariffs may not make any sense when you sort of look at the design is because maybe they're not actually economic or trade policy, maybe it's actually political policy. So, once again, just an absolute disaster for regular working people out there and maybe a big threat to our democracy.
- [02:06]
Host
Well, you know, the authoritarian playbook is usually they don't care about the pain and suffering of the people. So, Senator Kaine, do you think this is a tool book or part of the toolkit of the authoritarian playbook, as Senator Murphy suggests?
- [02:20]
Chris Murphy
Yep.
- [02:20]
Tim Kaine
I'm wearing my Virginia State seal pin that says 6 semper tyrannus on it. I'm wearing it For a reason. It is part of it. I'm looking at this president and you know, we all know the fairy tale of Rumpelstiltskin. We were a kid, the mysterious guy that would turn straw into gold. This president is trumplestiltskin. He's turning gold into straw. On inauguration Day, he had the strongest economy in the world. Low unemployment, stock market, strong manufacturing jobs, growing infrastructure jobs going. And in less than two months, he's turned it through chaos and incompetence into one with flashing red lights and question marks all over it. And I battled really hard this week and was able to get Republicans to stand up against Canadian tariffs. And we're going to do the same with this broader tariff that he's laid on the entire world. I agree with Chris. He likes doing it because he thinks he can do it unilaterally. But let's be clear what this is ultimately about. You know, he said the tariffs are to go after countries with trade barriers, but he put tariffs on companies that have zero trade barriers for US Products. He said it was because of trade deficits. But he put tariffs on companies where the, on countries where the US has trade surpluses. It's going to cause massive pain to consumers. So why do it? He's doing it so that he can have $6 trillion. That's what he's assessing over 10 years of tariff revenue that he can use to pay for a tax cut for himself and his friends. Chris has been really focused on all these cuts to Medicaid and other programs that everyday Americans care about. So you take all those cuts and then you take all this tariff revenue. Essentially it's a national sales tax on American consumer consumers. You put it in a bucket and then you use it to give tax breaks to the wealthy. That's the only thing that really explains any quote, economic theory behind this. It's a pay for, for a giveaway to the richest.
- [04:22]
Host
You know, our viewers really wanted to hear from both of you and they've been asking for a while because you're both out there fighting aggressively and I think meeting the moment and people want to see that. So let's first start with Senator Murphy about your approach because you've been very public, you've been using a lot of, you know, digital means more than you had, you know, even before. Where are you finding success? What's your recommendation to others in the party? And I'll just make it a multi part question. What are you hearing from people right now as you go out there?
- [04:53]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, listen, it's, it's extraordinary. I mean, these crowds that are showing up for kind of anything, right? Tens of thousands for Bernie Sanders. But, you know, you throw a protest against the Tesla dealership in my state and you're going to get a thousand people, you know, folks want to be plugged into action right now. So, you know, I do think it's incumbent upon those of us who are leaders at the national level to be out across the country holding town halls, holding rallies, giving people actions that they can take to try to stop this thievery and corruption. But, you know, I also think that we need to meet the moment by meeting Trump's volume level. There's a little bit of a theory that some have in the Democratic Party that, you know, we should sort of sit back and just wait for these guys to disintegrate and collapse. Well, they collapse politically, but when they flood the zone, we need to flood the zone. So, you know, what a lot of us are doing is just dramatically upping the content we put out there so that every time Trump does something, we can explain to you why it's happening and how it fits into this broader storyline that Tim was laying out, which is that they're trying to turn the government over to their billionaire friends, to their Mar a Lago friends. Everything is about empowering these oligarchs and they're willing to destroy the democracy because what they're doing is super unpopular. So they have to try to crush dissent in order to get away with it. So I just think we have to be running a national political movement. We need to give people options for action. We need to be really loud. We need to triple the content that we're putting out there. That's the best way right now that we can meet the moment and try to spur on the kind of national epic scale mobilization that we're going to need to save the country.
- [06:33]
Host
As I always say here on the show, ABC always be campaigning, if not for an office, just for the hearts and minds of the people and letting them know and looking them in the eye and saying, I care about you. I'm fighting for you. I hear you. I think people want to hear that. You hear what they're going through in this very difficult moment. So, Senator Kaine, what are you seeing out there as you're speaking to people? What are you hearing? And then we're going to get a little wonky. We're going to talk boat Orama. We're going to talk about why that's important and people need to pay attention. What are you Hearing.
- [07:03]
Tim Kaine
I'm hearing the same thing as Chris. We had our first recess week in March since we came in in January, And I did 26 events in seven days around Virginia. And I just heard a boatload of concerns and anxieties. And what I tell people is, look, there's a five level strategy we have. It's courts, Congress, states, elections, and activism. And in each one of these, we have to have a coordinated set of plans. The one that I'm most responsible for, obviously, with Chris, is in Congress. What can we do? And we got to face the reality we're in minority in both houses. So what I did is I asked my staff after the dust settled in November, okay, we're in the minority in both Houses and Trump's got the White House. What are things in minority you can do where they can't block you, that you get a free pass to go right to the floor and get a vote? They can't bottle it up in committee. They can't kill you. You go right to the floor. And I found about four mechanisms in Senate procedure where you can take the fight right to the floor. Even just one senator can take it right to the floor. So twice in the last month, I've used this. I challenged President Trump's bogus energy emergency that he declared. Even though we're producing more energy than at any time in the history of the United States, he used that emergency to justify end runs to all these environmental laws for oil, gas, and coal. I took that to the floor. I got a vote. It unified all Dems. The Republicans all stood with Trump because they're too afraid to say, hey, there's no energy emergency. But when I did the same thing this week, I used the same unusual procedural tool to force a vote on the Canadian tariffs. I got four Republicans. This is the first break where any Republicans have been willing to stand up against Trump. And obviously, Chris and I are in minorities, so we got to look for ways that will get some Republicans to come our way. The outside game that puts pressure on them, the economic indicators that are showing that Trump's screwing up the economy, that increases the pressure for them to join us as we're challenging Trump. And so I'm trying to perfect these tools that will force them again and again and again to have to declare whether they're on their constituent side or whether they're on Trump's side.
- [09:10]
Host
You know, I think sometimes the American people get lost in all of the parliamentary procedures that are taking place. They get it confused. Like we heard that the House of Representatives passed an outline of a budget that was going to cut for, that was going to give 4.5 trillion in tax cuts to the billionaires, cut 880 billion in Medicaid, 400 billion in cuts to, like agriculture and education and all of these horrible things. Then that kind of like disappears from the news cycle. Trump, of course, crashes the economy. It's sitting in the Senate. The budget, the tax plan, voterama. People are hearing all these different words. And frankly, people are, I'm, I'm confused. I'm not sure what's going on. So I know there's a taxorama, which is Democrats go in, they introduce amendments to try to mitigate some of the bad effects of the Trump tax plan and budget. But, like, what are you both doing in the Senate now? Can you break it down in plain terms that our audience can kind of understand? And why are you doing it and what's the impact and what do you want people to take away? So let's start with Senator Murphy, then let's go to Senator Kaine and what's going on here?
- [10:15]
Chris Murphy
Well, the bottom line is that every year the majority party gets the chance to pass something in the spending and tax arena with a majority vote. It's called reconciliation. But who cares what it's called? They get one chance to do that every year. And so this is what Republicans have been trying to do for the last couple months is pass their spending and tax package. And it's pretty simple. It's a massive tax increase, about $1 trillion for the richest 1%. And it's paid for by throwing a whole bunch of people, millions of people, off their health insurance, about a trillion dollars of cuts to Medicaid. Medicaid is the program that insures, you know, 24% of American families. Nobody really knows it as Medicaid because it's called something different in every state. In Connecticut, it's Husky Care. In Wisconsin, it's Badger Care. But one quarter of families are on Medicaid. So that's the spending and tax package. Massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to families to the wealthy. But the reason that it looks confusing is that like everything else, these guys are just bad at governing. So there's two steps. They have to pass sort of the framework and then they have to pass the final bill with all the details. They can't get the framework passed. The House passed one version, the Senate passed one version, but it didn't match. And so this week they're trying to pass a new version that matches. They're the keystone cops in the White House, but it's the same thing in Congress as well. So it looks even more convoluted and confusing because, like, when they couldn't figure out how to elect a speaker in the House of Representatives and they had to try six or seven times, they're doing the same thing in the House and the Senate. But the bottom line is that they are trying to do the same thing. They just can't get agreement on the details. What they're doing is massive tax cut for the wealthy. Their tax package gives about 850 times the benefit to the very wealthy as to the very poor and paid for by cuts that are going to affect regular Americans. They are trying to vote this week on another version of the framework, but we'll see if they ever get to the final version because what they're doing is super unpopular. And people out in America are rising up in protest like they did in 2017 when they tried to pass a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, which covers 20 million people. They couldn't do it because it was so unpopular. And our hope is that we can drag this out for as long as possible so that we can rise up public opposition like we did to the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. So they actually never get this thing across the finish line. That's our goal.
- [12:46]
Tim Kaine
I'll just weigh in what Chris said because he really laid it out well. The debate this weekend is still about the framework and the instructions, not the actual budget. But once that's set, they'll bring the actual budget back and then we will have a battle royale. But it is important for everybody to know when the Republicans had the majority in Trump in the White House in 2017, they used their one shot. Chris says you can do this once a year. They use their one shot to get rid of Obamacare and make cuts to Medicaid. And we beat them. We got Republican votes, just like we got on our Canadian tariff thing earlier this week. So our goal is to shine a spotlight on how bad this will be and use the intense activism of people around the country leaning on their legislature so that when they come up with the actual budget bill in a few months, based on this instruction we're working on this weekend, our goal is we're gonna beat them again like we beat them in 2017. And that's what this is all about.
- [13:44]
Host
So a way to think about it is the House passed its framework. Now the Senate tries to find one that kind of matches what this voterama is about is really you all are kind of chipping away at it and showing the American people through an amendment process. Here's what they're doing, here's why it's bad. You're calling them out on certain areas. You're putting them on the spot and make them vote on issues to actually expose and smoke out how dangerous a lot of these plans are where they may be trying to move in silence. Is that a decent description of it, Senator Murphy?
- [14:17]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, that's, you know, that's, that's right. Another one of these arcane Senate rules is that anytime you are trying to pass either the framework for this once a year majority vote budget or the final package, Democrats or Republicans, basically any senator has the unlimited right of amendment. So you can, you can offer as many amendments as you want. Nobody can shut down the amendment process. And so tonight we will likely go well into the night offering lots and lots of amendments. And I'll give you an example. Republicans will likely defeat all of them. But it gives us an opportunity to show what this is all about. One of the things we'll likely do tonight that we did last time they tried to pass the framework is just put them on record as to how much they care about tax cuts for the super wealthy. So we might put an amendment on the floor that says, you know, the framework can't allow for any tax cuts for people who make more than $500 million a year. And they'll vote that down and then we'll put one up that says, well, you can't have any tax cuts for people that make more than a billion dollars a year. And then we'll try 5 billion. Right. We'll just put them on the record to show how badly they care about tax cuts for the wealthy, that they can't even vote against massive tax cuts for people that are making a billion dollars or more a year. They probably will defeat these amendments, but it just puts them in a box and it further refines the message for us, which is that all they care about is the economy for billionaires they do not care about. And we've seen this with the tariffs, with their tax package, with their custom Medicaid. They do not care about the economy for regular Americans.
- [15:53]
Host
I know you both have a very busy day ahead of you. I get your closing messages just in general to the American people and from Senator Kaine also, you know, we're the number one podcast in Canada, so in addition to America. So they saw the, what you did yesterday to try to block the tariffs against Canada, they were very happy, you know, to see people fighting for them. And, you know, we fight for them, too. Friends, what's going on here? So what's your message? People are worried right now. Senator, what do you say to the people right now?
- [16:22]
Tim Kaine
I tell you what motivates me every day. 2026 is 250 years of American democracy, and I am damn committed that we will celebrate it, not mourn it or not have a coronation. We're going to have a celebration, not a coronation or a requiem. And so this budget battle is part of a larger battle. You know, my state seal is the only one that has a rebuke on it. Thus be it always to tyrants, because. And this has been on our flag since 1776, we have to fight against an authoritarian who wants to screw up the economy and screw up relations around the world and screw up agencies that do good work, all to benefit himself and his friends. And I have great confidence in the American people that we will stand up and that we will be celebrating, not mourning, come our 250th birthday in 2026.
- [17:16]
Host
Senator Murphy, your message to the 5 million subscribers we have here and the many more who listen here and abroad.
- [17:23]
Chris Murphy
Tim and I had different jobs at the beginning of the week. On Monday and Tuesday, Tim was lining up these Republican votes against the tariffs. He did a fantastic job. I was on the floor for all 25 hours of Cory Booker's filibuster as kind of his. His wingman. He did it for me back when I held a filibuster on guns and 2016. And it was just a reminder to me that one person can make a difference. I mean, not everybody out there is the United States Senator. Not everybody has access to the Senate floor like Cory did, but he did something heroic that really moved the nation. And I think everybody can look at what he did and realize that you have the ability just through your own voice, in concert and chorus with other Americans, to step up and stop this thievery. What Tim said is right. We beat the Affordable Care act repeal in 2017. Wake up every day with a little bit of that anxiousness, right? With a little bit of that anger, but also with optimism about the fact that in this country, citizens are still in charge. So that's our message every single day.
- [18:22]
Host
Senator Murphy, Senator Kaine, thank you both for joining us. We'll be watching the tax around, and I think our audience now knows what it is that's going on. We hope you please come back. And thanks for everything. You're doing.
- [18:33]
Tim Kaine
Glad you do it.
- [18:34]
Host
Thanks everybody. Hit subscribe let's get to 5 million subscribers. Love this video. Continue the conversation by following us on Instagram at Midas Touch and help US blow past 1 million followers.