Dems Unleash Brutal Cross-Exam of GOP Witnesses

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast Summary Episode: Dems Unleash Brutal Cross-Exam of GOP Witnesses
Release Date: May 7, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, hosts Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas delve into a heated committee hearing where Democratic Congress members launched rigorous cross-examinations against key Republican witnesses, including members of Donald Trump's cabinet. The episode highlights the Democrats' strategic questioning tactics aimed at exposing flaws in GOP policies, particularly focusing on tariffs and their impact on everyday Americans. The discussion is enriched with humorous banter, insightful analysis, and notable exchanges that underline the current political climate.

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1. Democratic Cross-Examinations Take Center Stage

The episode opens with host Ron Filipkowski setting the scene for a day of intense congressional hearings. Democrats in the committee, led by Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and Congressman Mark Pocan, took no prisoners as they interrogated Republican cabinet members, aiming to dismantle Trump's policy decisions.

a. Congressman Mark Pocan vs. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant on Tariffs

One of the most memorable exchanges features Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan grilling Treasury Secretary Scott Besant about the practical implications of tariffs.

• [01:50]
  Mark Pocan: "Who pays tariffs?"
  Scott Besant: "No, no, no."
  Pocan: "Ask the. Answer the questions I asked, please. I only have five minutes. Who pays tariffs?"

Despite multiple attempts, Besant evades a direct answer, highlighting the Democrats' frustration with GOP officials dodging straightforward questions.

• [14:07]
  Mark Pocan: "Consumers pay Trump's tariff tax. That's the reality."

This persistent questioning underscores the Democratic stance that tariffs directly burden American consumers, a point they aim to solidify through relentless scrutiny.

b. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett's Attack on GOP Policies

Congresswoman Crockett methodically challenges Republican policies, labeling them as "low IQ implementations" to emphasize their perceived ineffectiveness.

• [03:35]
  Jasmine Crockett: "It sounds like a low IQ implementation to me."

She further interrogates Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on constitutional rights, pushing for clear yes or no answers to highlight inconsistencies in GOP claims.

• [09:48]
  Jasmine Crockett: "Do you believe the Constitution grants everyone in our country the right to due process, including noncitizens?"

Noem's ambiguous responses fuel Crockett's argument against Republican policies, reinforcing the Democrats' narrative of governmental overreach.

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2. GOP Witnesses’ Evasion and Inability to Debate

A recurring theme throughout the episode is the GOP's apparent inability to engage constructively in debates. Republican witnesses, including Treasury Secretary Besant and others, frequently avoid answering direct questions, relying instead on jargon or diverting the conversation.

• [02:02]
  Scott Besant: "It's a very complicated question."

• [13:29]
  Besant: "Strategic uncertainty is part of negotiations..."

These evasive tactics frustrate Democratic members and are portrayed as a lack of accountability, undermining GOP credibility.

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3. Impact of Tariffs on Main Street and Consumers

The Democrats emphasized how tariffs negatively affect everyday Americans, particularly small businesses and consumers. Pocan highlights the real-world consequences of these policies:

• [12:23]
  Mark Pocan: "For a small business, we don't have that luxury, right? When the ports are empty in California and we can't get goods and people are stocking up for Christmas goods. Crazy Ivan is great for..."

Pocan's remarks paint a picture of economic strain caused by tariffs, reinforcing the Democrats' position that such policies are detrimental to the average citizen.

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4. Mocking the "Crazy Ivan" Theory

The episode takes a humorous turn as Democrats mock the GOP's "Crazy Ivan" theory—a strategy Besant refers to regarding tariff negotiations. This light-hearted ribbing serves to belittle Republican justifications for their policies.

• [13:17]
  Mark Pocan: "What is the Crazy Ivan theory of tariffs that you mentioned at the summit?"

• [15:15]
  Crockett: "The questions are really simple. Yes or no. Were these, was that form used in..."

The hosts highlight how the "Crazy Ivan" theory is perceived as convoluted and out of touch with the hardships faced by everyday Americans, further delegitimizing GOP arguments.

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5. Host’s Analysis of Republican Strategy and Weaknesses

Throughout the episode, Ron Filipkowski provides insightful commentary on the Republicans' approach during the hearings. He criticizes the MAGA Republican members for their reluctance to engage in meaningful debate and their dependency on Trump's social media for policy stances.

• [05:47]
  Filipkowski: "The MAGA Republicans were getting so ripped to shreds yesterday, and they really have no ability to even debate anymore because they just basically take whatever Donald Trump posts on social media..."

Filipkowski underscores the perceived disconnect between Republican officials and their constituents, suggesting that this hampers effective governance and accountability.

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6. Notable Exchanges and Humorous Interludes

The episode is peppered with memorable quotes and humorous exchanges that add levity to the intense discussions:

• [15:51]
  Scott Besant: "Perhaps he was watching 'Escape from Alcatraz' by Clint Eastwood... Maybe he's just netflixing and chilling, like watching, watching, watching 'The Rock,' which is not to be confused with the Rock, right?"

This segment humorously critiques Besant's inability to provide substantive answers, using the Alcatraz reference as a metaphor for the failed policies.

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Conclusion

The MeidasTouch Podcast effectively captures the tension and strategic maneuvering within congressional hearings, showcasing the Democrats' efforts to hold GOP witnesses accountable. Through incisive questioning, humor, and sharp analysis, the hosts illustrate the ongoing political battle over tariffs and their broader implications on American society. For listeners who missed the episode, this summary provides a comprehensive overview of the key discussions and highlights the podcast's unique blend of political insight and brotherly banter.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mark Pocan [01:50]: "Who pays tariffs?"
• Jasmine Crockett [03:35]: "It sounds like a low IQ implementation to me."
• Mark Pocan [14:07]: "Consumers pay Trump's tariff tax. That's the reality."
• Scott Besant [13:29]: "Strategic uncertainty is part of negotiations..."
• Scott Besant [15:51]: "Maybe he's just netflixing and chilling, like watching 'The Rock,' which is not to be confused with the Rock, right?"

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Transcript

[Ron Filipkowski]

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[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Reiterating.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Ma' am, please. Ma' am. Reclaiming my time. I'd like you to avoid the filibuster so I can get to all my questions. The Democrats were ripping into Donald Trump's cabinet members testifying on Capitol Hill with some powerful cross examination. You saw right there. Democratic Congresswoman Escobar from Texas cross examining the dog killer, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, Police. More on that cross exam in a little bit. I now want to show you Democratic Congress member Mark Pocan his cross examination of Treasury Secretary Scott Besant where he basically just asks Besson the most basic question, who pays for Trump's tariffs? Watch the response. Let's play this clip.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Who pays tariffs? Mr. Secretary.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

No, no, no.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Ask the. Answer the questions I asked, please. I only have five minutes. Who pays tariffs?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Sorry.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Well, who pays tariffs? Sorry, Mr. Secretary, please excuse me. The question is very simply, who pays tariffs? Mr. Chairman, I'd like him to answer that question. Well, let's answer other questions.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Well, Congressman, if the. Congressman, if the exporters the dislike tariffs so much, why wouldn't they. If I think what you're trying to get me to.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Did you remember the question? I'm not sure you did. Who pays tariffs?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

That they. It's a very complicated question.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Reclaiming my time. People pay tariffs, right? I'm Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary. Reclaiming my time. You clearly aren't going to answer. I'm not going to waste my.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Next up, Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett goes one by one with the individuals who the MAGA Republicans called to this committee hearing. And she goes and explains. Seems pretty easy that Trump's policies are bad. Wouldn't you agree? Don't you think that these are some low IQ policies? She says. Here, play this clip.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Okay, I don't really know where to begin. We've got a lot of ground to cover in about five minutes, so let's go. I've got three statements that I want to know if you agree or disagree with, and I want to just go down the road. Yes or no? Does cutting pay typically assist in recruiting a workforce? Yes or no?

[Ron Filipkowski]

No. No.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Generally, no. No.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Thank you. It sounds like a low IQ implementation to me. So let's go to the next one. Does poor working conditions assist with recruitment? Yes or no? No.

[Ron Filipkowski]

No, no, no.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Sounds like another low IQ implementation to me. And finally, I'm going to start with Mr. Potter, because I don't know how this is going to go. Does union busting help with recruitment?

[Ron Filipkowski]

No. I know nothing about unions whatsoever. I don't know anything about unions either.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Okay. No. Okay. So again, another low IQ implementation. I just want to be clear that the American people should know that these are all Trump policies. So when we say that he's failed, let me tell you, we got receipts, and those are some of the receipts. So when we start talking.

[Ron Filipkowski]

So then the MAGA Republicans were getting so ripped to shreds yesterday, and they really have no ability to even debate anymore because they just basically take whatever Donald Trump posts on social media, and then they're like, okay, I guess that's what we believe in now. And they know that they get flustered and that they can't even justify their positions. So I showed you this thing that they were doing last week, and they're continuing to do it this week. The. I'm talking about the members of Congress now, the MAGA Republican Congress members. So they don't even speak or debate with the Democratic Congress members anymore. They stay mute. They go silent. So you have a Democratic Congress member like Congressmember Negus, and he'll say, okay, could we debate this amendment? Because that's what we're supposed to do in Congress. Who wants to discuss this? I'd love to just debate it so I can see why you oppose it. And we can. Let's, let's discuss our ideas in public as legislators. Let's. Let's talk about it. And then the MAGA Republicans just, they refuse to respond. I'm going to stop the video after four or five seconds of the silence. So you'll get the point. But it goes on for four minutes. And Congressmember Negus, the Democratic Congressmember is just like, okay, no one, no one, no one. Here, watch this clip right here.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Perhaps I'll try something a little different this time. Because I have made repeated offers to the chairman to try to engage him in debate. I've made good faith efforts to convince my colleagues that they should rise to the occasion and on behalf of their constituents, be willing to defend their values, defend the positions that they have taken. But that has fallen unfortunately on deaf ears and just blanket refusal on the part of my Republican colleagues to engage in any kind of debate. So what I will just do, I will give my Republican colleagues an opportunity to explain to their constituents, to their colleagues and to the American people why they believe this amendment should not be.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Approved by the committee. Then we have Democratic Congress member really grill into Treasury Secretary Besant right here about Scott Besants employment of this guy Marco Elez who made all these Doge worker who made racist post. And then Besson tries to play dumb about it. Great cross exam skills. Here, play this clip. Statements that Mr. Alez had made in the prior year. One was you could not pay me to marry outside my ethnicity. Another was that he wanted to normalize Indian hate. A third was just for the record, I was racist before it was cool. And another was I just want a eugenic immigration policy. Is that too much to ask? This man resigned shortly after that article was published. But you haven't, you don't recall him.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Being there, Congressman, I did not recall that individual's name. But that individual was terminated.

[Ron Filipkowski]

He was terminated. Okay, well, I appreciate that. Although it appears that he then later turned up that he was rehired, I guess. And that he's not by treasury, sir. Okay, but he was continuing to do work for Doge. But in this instance, HHS and three other apartments. You have no idea.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

I didn't follow his career.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Okay, wait, you didn't catch J.D. vance saying that he didn't think he should be terminated? Did you miss that too?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

I don't recall that.

[Ron Filipkowski]

All right. Do you recall Mr. Trump saying that he should have a second chance?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

I don't recall that, no.

[Ron Filipkowski]

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[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Do you believe that the Constitution grants everyone in our country the right to due process, including noncitizens?

[Ron Filipkowski]

The administration has the authority to.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Ma' am, I'm looking for a yes or no question. Yes or no? Do you believe the concept? Yes, ma' am. Do you have not conducted any claiming my time, Mr. Chairman. Okay, Secretary Noem, I'm just looking for a yes or no here. Do you believe the Constitution guarantees due process to everyone in America?

[Ron Filipkowski]

Due process is exactly what this Congress lays out.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Or no? Okay, ma' am, I'll take that as a no. Excuse me? I'm trying. Ma' am, I'm trying to ascertain your understanding of the law as it applies to your department. And you, as its leader, should be able to give us a yes or no answer, because judge after judge has ruled that the law is not being followed. Do you believe that the US Government has the authority to deport American citizens? No.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And we are not deporting US Citizens.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

I'm so happy to hear that you do not believe that the law gives you that authority because the federal government has no authority under US laws to deport any American citizens. And as I know, everyone viewing this hearing today knows that several American citizens have been deported to date. Secretary Noem, that Was not a question, Secretary Noem. That oath that we both swore before taking office was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, not the president, not a political party, the Constitution. And that's what we're going to keep doing here at the Appropriations Committee. Thank you. I yield back.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Now going back to Mark Pocan. Hope I'm saying his name right. Democratic Congressman as a poke in Democratic Congress. Member Mark Pocan sparring with Secretary of Treasury Scott Besant here about. Scott Besant has what he calls the Crazy Ivan theory. And he's like, oh, Trump's being Crazy Ivan. That's what, that's what this is. It's strategic uncertainty Crazy Ivan. And so you just don't know what Crazy Ivan is going to do. And here the Democrats are like, okay, for like Americans, like regular folk, like, we don't want Crazy Ivan. Like, we just want our paychecks and we want to be able to afford housing and we want to be able to have health care and we want to be able to raise children and we want to be able to have a family or we want to be able just to be happy. We don't want Crazy Ivan. We're not looking for crazy frickin Ivan. This is actually the Republican policy, they call it the Crazy Ivan theory. And that Trump's Crazy Ivan. They've unleashed Crazy Ivan on us. You think I'm joking? Here, play this clip right here.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

So I just recently from one of my suppliers got the tariff surcharge on things. In addition to the tariff surcharge, guess what else got raised? American made walnut plaques. That has nothing to do with tariffs. But companies take advantage and do that. So right now we are getting screwed right and left because of the indiscriminate use of tariffs. That's the reality for Main Street. And you go off to Beverly Hills for private investor conferences and talk about Crazy Ivan theories. Answer that. What is the Crazy Ivan theory of tariffs that you mentioned at the summit?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Well, first of all, sir, I've had meetings with more than 50 small lenders, so I want to clarify that. I would also say that in game theory, strategic uncertainty, of which you seem to like the name Crazy Ivan.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Well, it's.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Your words correct. Didn't you use Crazy Ivan at the.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Well, you've used it five times.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

And that's the question, Mr. Chairman, I.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Am saying the strategic uncertainty is part of negotiations that should we say, okay, oh, here's what we'll accept. Please take this.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

Okay, I've got your answer. Thank you. I'm Going to reclaim my time again. So for a small business, we don't have that luxury, right? When the ports are empty in California and we can't get goods and people are stocking up for Christmas goods. Crazy Ivan is great for. Please don't take this offense. Really rich people like you. But for people like me, it's not right. That's what makes small businesses fail. That's what makes people lose their jobs. That's what makes the stock market tank. So I'll ask one more time, who pays tariffs?

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

Sir, the history would show that it is a complicated mix of who pays the tariffs over various times.

[Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan]

So that's exactly the problem. If your answer, and you are a very educated person, you have a very impressive bio. Cannot answer the question who pays tariffs? Because you won't answer that and you say it's a complicated issue. It's not complicated. Consumers pay Trump's tariff tax. That's the reality.

[Ron Filipkowski]

Yeah. The Crazy Ivan theory. Everybody. Here's the clip that I showed you at the beginning of Democratic Congresswoman Escobar grilling Kristi Noem right here. Let's play this clip. Were any of the individuals who were deported, who had US Citizen children deported, supported with them, Were they given an opportunity to sign that form when these.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

The specific cases that you're referencing with.

[Ron Filipkowski]

These children, it was the parents choice to take. And. And did I. Which it is on the policy to keep families together. Ma' am. Ma' Am, reclaiming my time. I told you at the top of this. Ma' am. Reclaiming my time. I said the, the questions are really simple. Yes or no. Were these, was that form used in.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Any of those cases? I will get back to you on that specific form.

[Ron Filipkowski]

I don't know the number, but I do know these mothers.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Okay, thank you.

[Ron Filipkowski]

The second form. Ma' am, reclaiming my time. Ma' am, please. Ma' Am reclaiming my time. I'd like you to avoid the filibuster so I can get to all my questions.

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

Answering your questions.

[Ron Filipkowski]

And then Congressmember Moskowitz had this great rant. This is epic 10 of 10 rant right here. And he does, he does a really good job here where he goes and talks about, oh, so Trump woke up and he was watching a show about Alcatraz. So now we have to all be for Alcatraz. And then Donald Trump wants the tower of movies. This is actually mosquito. It should probably just be a stand up comedian. This is funny stuff right here. Play this clip.

[Treasury Secretary Scott Besant]

I was listening to the ranking member and she brought up something about Trump talking about Alcatraz. And of course, look, this is just another distraction to divert attention away from the tariffs or rising prices or the struggle on Main Street. But since we're having a hearing on prisons, it's lucky timing for me. So three times more expensive than any prison to operate. In 1959, Alcatraz was. It needs about $250 million to shore up the infrastructure and utilities. All food and water has to be barged in. Sewage has to be barged out. The facility is almost 100 years old. And so I don't get it. In the days of Doge, where we're cutting budgets, we got to find savings. Now we're going to what? We're going to cut Medicaid and Snap so that we can pour money into Alcatraz. First of all, have you been to Alcatraz recently? It literally is a rust box walking around. You need a tetanus shot just to go into the building. Do we still give tetanus shots or has RFK gotten rid of those? I can't keep them. And so listen, where did the President get this idea all of a sudden, right? Where did he get the idea? Perhaps he was watching Escape from Alcatraz, right? And I brought boards because some people are visual learners. Perhaps he was watching Escape from Alcatraz by Clint Eastwood. Actually, funny part about that. It was actually on television in South Florida. It was on pbs, South Florida over the weekend when Trump was at Mar a Lago. In fact, he made his announcement just hours after it aired. You know, pbs, the programming that he's trying to get rid of. So just in case you're keeping up, right? It's Two Dolls for Girls and Zero Elmos. Okay? But maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it wasn't that. Maybe he was watching the Rock with Sean Connery. You know, this one, this is where Sean Connery goes back to Alcatraz because he originally escaped Alcatraz and he needed, like, an expert on chemical weapons. Maybe the President was just netflixing and chilling, like watching, watching, watching the Rock, which is not to be confused with the Rock, right? That's a different. That's a different person. And then the President's really excited about these sharks, right? He's talking about all the sharks, and the person escaped, he lost his clothing. So, you know, sharks, they don't have laser beams on. They don't have laser beams. But maybe, maybe, maybe the sharks are going to be there. So this is just all ridiculous. But then all of a sudden after that we heard like, oh, we're going to tariff the movies. Well, hold on a second. Why would we tariff the movies? This is where the president is getting his ideas from. We can't tariff the policy idea making of the presidency. And look, I know what my colleagues are going to say. They're going to say, jared, just let the President Cook. This is 40 chess he's playing. And I'm going to say maybe he's just watching late night movies. Perhaps.

[Ron Filipkowski]

There you have it, folks. Let me know what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 5 million subscribers. Can't get enough Midas? Check out the Midas plus substack for ad free articles, reports, podcasts, daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski and more. Sign up for free [e-mail].

[Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

It.