Furious Canada Freezes Out Trump and Walks Out

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast: "Furious Canada Freezes Out Trump and Walks Out"

Release Date: August 4, 2025
Host/Authors: Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas
Description: In this episode, the Meiselas brothers delve into the escalating trade tensions between Canada and the United States under President Donald Trump's administration. Combining sharp political analysis with their signature brotherly banter, they explore the implications of Canada's response to the U.S. tariffs and the broader impact on North American trade relations.

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1. Introduction to the Trade Conflict (00:29 - 03:05)

The episode kicks off with Ben Miceli outlining the recent developments in U.S.-Canada trade relations. The U.S. Trade Representative, Jameson Greer, criticizes Canada's retaliatory tariffs, suggesting that President Trump is displeased with Canada's actions following the U.S. declaration of a trade war.

Ben Miceli explains:

“Canada stuck the dagger in Donald Trump and they twisted it. The Trade Minister of Canada, Dominique LeBlanc, went on American media and he was asked, so why don't you just remove the retaliatory tariffs? ... We're going to protect Canadian interest and we're going to look towards reliable trading partners.”
[00:29]

2. Analysis of U.S. Trade Policies (03:05 - 10:28)

The brothers dissect the motivations behind the U.S. tariffs, highlighting President Trump's inconsistent stance on trade with China and other Asian economies. Ben critiques Jameson Greer's approach, suggesting that the U.S. is not genuinely seeking to decouple from China but is instead engaging in selective trade practices.

Ben Miceli comments:

“Maybe they remove the retaliatory tariffs against us, then maybe there's some room. Watch the gaslighting by the United States Trade Representative Jameson Greer here.”
[05:00]

They play clips featuring Dominique LeBlanc, the Canadian Trade Minister, who emphasizes Canada's focus on protecting national interests and maintaining a strong trading relationship with the U.S., despite the tensions.

3. Perspectives from U.S. and Canadian Officials (10:28 - 18:24)

The podcast features excerpts from interviews with key figures:

• Mark Carney, Canadian Prime Minister, discusses the importance of the steel and aluminum sectors, advocating for collaborative efforts to mitigate the impact of tariffs.

  Mark Carney states:

  “We believe there's a great deal of common ground between the United States and Canada in terms of building two strong economies that work well together.”
  [07:13]

• Pete Hoekstra, U.S. Ambassador to Canada, responds to President Trump's comments about Canada becoming the "51st state," dismissing them as not genuine threats but rather political maneuvers.

  Pete Hoekstra remarks:

  “The president does not invite people onto his team, or to grow our team with the belief that by doing so, we're going to weaken America or weaken them.”
  [13:32]

• Doug Ford, Premier of Ontario, provides a critical perspective on President Trump's trade tactics, emphasizing the need for Canada to bolster its manufacturing sectors and reduce dependence on U.S. imports.

  Doug Ford passionately asserts:

  “We can build anything here in Canada. Absolutely anything... Don't let them hoodwink you. I'm going to call them out again.”
  [22:11]

• Stephen Harper, former Canadian Prime Minister, reflects on the shifting stance towards the U.S., advocating for diversification of trade partners and increased defense spending.

  Stephen Harper explains:

  “Just because we have that geographic proximity does not justify the degree of dependence that we have on a single market, which is sometimes disadvantageous.”
  [23:00]

4. Economic Implications and Future Outlook (18:24 - 29:10)

The discussion shifts to the broader economic impacts of the tariffs. Ben highlights Canada's significant investment in U.S. Treasuries and the strain caused by American boycotts on Canadian products, which adversely affects tourism and bilateral trade.

Ben Miceli notes:

“Prime Minister Carney recognizes that Canada holds close to $1 trillion in United States Treasuries. I think he realizes that Canada is the biggest customer and client of the United States...”
[16:18]

Kevin Hassett adds to the conversation, questioning whether the tariff rates are indeed locked in or subject to further negotiations. The brothers express skepticism about the stability of these tariffs, citing President Trump's unpredictable decision-making.

Kevin Hassett states:

“The president will decide what the president decides. But... the president likes those deals.”
[27:39]

Dominique LeBlanc acknowledges ongoing negotiations but remains firm on protecting Canadian interests, indicating potential for future dialogue despite current tensions.

5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (29:10 - End)

Ben wraps up the episode by emphasizing the resilience of Canada in the face of U.S. economic pressures. He underscores the importance of Canadians supporting local industries and warns against complacency in the trade war.

Ben Miceli concludes:

“Prime Minister Carney recognizes that overwhelmingly the people are with him. They don't want a bad deal to happen.”
[23:18]

He also reflects on the potential legal challenges to Trump's trade policies, suggesting that upcoming court rulings could significantly alter the current state of affairs.

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Key Takeaways:

• Trade Tensions: The U.S. imposed substantial tariffs on Canadian goods, prompting retaliatory measures from Canada aimed at protecting national interests.

• Canadian Strategy: Canada, under Prime Minister Carney, seeks to balance maintaining a strong relationship with the U.S. while asserting its sovereignty and protecting its economic sectors.

• Political Maneuvering: President Trump's administration is portrayed as unpredictably aggressive in trade negotiations, leveraging threats of further tariffs to pressure Canada.

• Economic Impact: The tariffs have strained bilateral trade, affected tourism, and led to significant economic repercussions for both nations.

• Future Prospects: Ongoing negotiations and potential legal challenges to the tariffs suggest that the trade relationship between the U.S. and Canada remains volatile and subject to change.

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This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the current trade war between Canada and the United States, highlighting the strategic responses from Canadian leadership and the broader economic implications for both countries. The Meiselas brothers effectively break down complex trade issues, offering listeners valuable insights into international relations and economic policy.

Transcript

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[Ben Miceli]

So Canada stuck the dagger in Donald Trump and they twisted it. The Trade Minister of Canada, Dominique LeBlanc, went on American media and he was asked, so why don't you just remove the retaliatory tariffs? Because the United States Trade Minister says Donald Trump is really upset that Canada retaliated against the United States after the United States declared a trade war on Canada. And Dominique LeBlanc, the trade minister from Canada, said, look, if a deal happens, we're going to work to put Canada first. That's what we're focused on. Y' all attacked us in Canada. We're going to do what's right for the Canadian people. We're disappointed in the way that Donald Trump and Jameson Greer and this regime is behaving. We're going to continue to try to make a deal. We are, after all, the biggest client and customer of the United States. But we're going to protect Canadian interest and we're going to look towards reliable trading partners. So you have to understand the sequence of what went down. So earlier in the day, you had the United States trade representative, basically our version of LeBlanc, and our version is just a complete idiot. This guy, Jameson Greer, he's the guy who talks about, oh, we need to decouple from China. Really decouple from China while you attack Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and you don't even allow the Taiwan president to come into the United States because Donald Trump got a phone call from Xi Jinping and said, can you not let the Taiwan president come into the United States to go to Central America? Donald Trump's like, anything for you, Xi Jinping. Anything for you. G. Okay, so not exactly a great deal of decoupling taking place. But I digress. Jameson Greer goes on the American media networks and he says, look, here is why we impose those 35% tariffs on Canada on the non USMCA United States Mexico agreement compliance stuff. They retaliated against us when we declared a trade war. And Donald Trump didn't like that retaliation. Nobody else retaliated against us. So maybe they remove the retaliatory tariffs against us, then maybe there's some room. Watch the gaslighting the by the United States Trade Representative Jameson Greer here. Play this clip.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

Let me ask you about Canada, which is our second largest, largest trading partner. The president increased tariffs to 35%. It applies, though, to just about 10% of what Canada sells here. Why bother to do this now in the middle of negotiations?

[Jameson Greer]

So, so I would say, first of all, early on, the president posed a 25% tariff on Canada, and that was really about fentanyl and border issues. Right. It's, it's a separate regime from the reciprocal tariff. And what did Canada do in response? You know, they talked about helping at the border. And I'm not, you know, I'm not a, the drug czar or anything. But what I do know as the trade guy is that Canada retaliated. The only other country in the world who retaliated on tariffs was the Chinese. And so if the president's going to take an action and the Canadians retaliate, the United States needs to maintain the integrity of our action, the effectiveness. So we have to go up to.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

You're talking about the things that the former Prime Minister Trudeau put in place.

[Jameson Greer]

Not the current prime minister, and are still in place.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

They're still in place, but the current prime minister has held off largely on retaliation here. That's the guy you're negotiating with and his team. So what's the strategy here? And aren't you worried that this will hurt the broader free trade deal if you truly do want to renegotiate it next year?

[Jameson Greer]

I'm not concerned that it's going to complicate things with Canada. Our view is the president is trying to fix the terms of trade with Canada. And if there's a way to a deal, we'll find it. And if it's not, we'll have the tariff levels that we have.

[Ben Miceli]

But folks, as we know, there's always an excuse for the Trump regime to attack Canada. Donald Trump wants to turn Canada into the 51st state. He made it clear what his intentions are. He wants to strip Canadian sovereignty. So if it's not the retaliatory tariffs, what was it earlier last week, it was, oh, can't he. Donald Trump even wrote, oh, Canada. Why would you recognize the Palestinian state? How are we supposed to get a deal done then? Then he called, then Howard Lutnick made his rounds on Fox State regime media. And Lutnick was like, oh, we were getting so close with Canada, and now you're recognizing the Palestinian state. I mean, come on, how could you be so tone deaf? Canada, why would you do that? And it just. That's my Howard Lutnick impression. Here he is, though. Watch Lutnick saying that. Here, play this clip. But Canada, I take it, not so much or not so good.

[Howard Lutnick]

Well, imagine like the, the president truthed out that the Canadians put out. Oh, we're going to recognize the Palestinian state. I mean, come on, don't be so tone deaf, right? The president is totally into trying to get peace in Gaza, and you're throwing your hat in the ring from Canada. Come on. You know, they still haven't solved dairy. They still have two countries on the whole world retaliated against the United States of America tariffs, China, which we all know, and Canada. So you know what? I just don't see the president stepping off the gas. Now, Mark Carney came down, had a really nice lunch with the president when he first got elected. You know, if he makes that call and if he starts turning on the charm and if he takes off his retaliation, let's, you know, and stops the silliness, maybe the president will let it down a bit. But right now, 35%, that letter he sent is surely in the cards, right?

[Ben Miceli]

So it's, oh, you recognize the Palestinian state. Oh, all of that fentanyl you're bringing in, right? When there's, when there's no fentanyl that they're bringing in. So it's excuse after excuse after excuse me. Now, let me show you, Dominic LeBlanc, what he had to say. So he was asked by American media, so why don't you just remove the retaliatory tariffs? Come on. Justin Trudeau, the former Prime Minister, he did it. You'll make us feel good here if you do that. Why don't you do that? And I think, look, Dominic LeBlanc, he was diplomatic about it. He goes, it'd be great if we can do a deal. Um, but no, we're not going to. Just, you know, we're defending Canada here. And he said it in a polite way. Here, watch this.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

You heard Ambassador Greer say Canada because Canada retaliated to the initial tariffs all the way back in April when Prime Minister Trudeau was in office. You're paying the price now, even though you have a new government in place. If that's the issue, why not make that concession and pull back?

[Mark Carney]

So Prime Minister Carney, our new prime minister, has, we think, built a very businesslike, respectful relationship with President Trump. We think that's obviously very important to Canada and we think to the United States. We're dealing with, take, for example, the steel sector in Canada. It's a strategic importance to national security in Canada, as it is for President Trump and the American economy. We now have a situation where there's a 50% tariff. We're the biggest steel export market for the United States. Right. We have a 25% tariff. There's a 50% tariff when we want to sell something into the United States. So effectively we're blocked from doing that. But the national security interest of Canada requires that we have a viable steel and aluminum sector. And my conversations with Secretary Lutnick and others are that therein lies an example where if we do the right work together, we, we have, Ms. Brennan, the toughest rules of any country dealing with Chinese dumping into Canada. We have melt and pour tracing so that products coming from other countries with Chinese steel can't be dumped into the Canadian market. So we're looking and advancing ideas where we can do that work with the United States at the same time ensuring that our economy continues to have sectors vital to the economic future of Canada.

[Ben Miceli]

And then now watch how Dominique Leblanc also talks about how, you know, he left the United States without a trade deal. He flew back after Donald Trump started posting, oh, you know, oh, Canada, I'm going to some 35% tariffs. I'm disappointed. But we'll go back, we'll still have a dialogue and we'll see. We're just going to make a deal that benefits Canada and if a deal doesn't benefit Canada, we're not going to do it. Here. Play this clip.

[Mark Carney]

So we were obviously, obviously disappointed by that decision. We believe there's a great deal of common ground between the United States and Canada in terms of building two strong economies that work well together. That's been the history of the 40 year free trade Agreement. That goes back to President Reagan. We were pleased the United States is respecting the, the terms of the USMCA agreement. That's vital, we think, to the cost of living and affordability, certainly in the United States. It's true in Canada as well. So we're going to continue to do the work. We left always with a better understanding of the American concerns in the trading relationship. Ambassador Greer, Secretary Lutnick, engage with us in constructive, cordial conversations. So we're prepared to stick around and do the work needed. We think Ms. Brennan, that the economies of both countries are strengthened when we do things together. The trading relationship between Canada and the United States is Unlike other Part 1 description with which I thought was very apt. We don't sell things to each other as much as we build things together. And that's why it's, it's difficult in this relationship when so much is integrated. But we remain very optimistic.

[Ben Miceli]

And LeBlanc says, look, there could still be some conversations taking place here. Play this clip.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

Are there any plans for the two leaders to speak? I saw President Trump said your prime minister called him Thursday and they just never connected. I mean, are tensions that high? And given the changing justification for the tariffs, do you really feel like you're negotiating with the other side in good faith?

[Mark Carney]

Sure, we do. Of course we do. As I say, the conversations have been informative, constructive and cordial. I would expect the prime minister will have a conversation with the president over the next number of days. That's certainly my plan. Again, with Secretary Lutnick recognizing that we think there is an option of striking a deal that will bring down some of these tariffs, provide greater certainty to investment.

[Ben Miceli]

Now, I want to remind you as well what the United States ambassador to Canada has also been saying, because this is how the Trump regime feels about Canada. Just a reminder. Here he is, Pete Hoekstra. Here's what he has to say here. Play this clip.

[Pete Hoekstra]

Oh, they just slapped a brand new tax on us that we've told them for months is an unfair tax. Oh, by the way, you have 11 out of your 13 provinces who ban American products on their shelves. We haven't banned a single Canadian product in the United States. That's a pretty nasty move. Okay. You have a number of your provinces have put in provisions into their procurement process that say, oh, if you're an American company, yep, you know, you can't bid. That's pretty nasty.

[Unnamed Journalist]

But that was in response to the US Slapping major tariffs on this country.

[Pete Hoekstra]

Exactly right now.

[Unnamed Journalist]

So responding is nasty. I'm just trying to get to the heart of this ambassador.

[Stephen Harper]

We are today.

[Ben Miceli]

And here's what the US ambassador to Canada had to say about the whole 51st state. Donald Trump saying that Canada should be the 51st state. Watch what he says here. Here, play this clip.

[Unnamed Journalist]

And I do want to ask you about the 51st state. You had to have known this question was coming because of course, the president brought it up again over the weekend. It does seem to come up when things are getting a bit tense and a bit intense. Is Donald Trump using threats against Canada's sovereignty as a negotiating tactic.

[Pete Hoekstra]

It's not a threat.

[Unnamed Journalist]

How is it saying that Canada should become a state? He said we're not a real country before.

[Pete Hoekstra]

I think, you know, your prime minister, I forget what he said within the last week or something and said, you know, this is a. He didn't use exactly this word, but a term of endearment.

[Unnamed Journalist]

You know, he, he has said it's a wish, a desire rather than reality term of. You think it's a term of endearment? Ambassador Hoekstra?

[Pete Hoekstra]

Yeah. President Trump doesn't invite people onto his team who he doesn't like, who, who he doesn't trust, who he doesn't respect. You know, he wants a strong team.

[Unnamed Journalist]

So your message to Canadians, they should see this 51st state talk as a term of endearment.

[Pete Hoekstra]

I, you know, they can see it however they want. Far be it for me to tell Canadians how they should view the President's comments, but the president does not invite people on his team, on America's team, or to grow our team with the belief that by doing so, we're going to weaken America or weaken them.

[Ben Miceli]

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[Jameson Greer]

You think it's possible for Canada to.

[Ben Miceli]

Get a deal with Trump that doesn't include tariffs on certain, certain sectors like.

[Jameson Greer]

Auto, steel, aluminum and energy.

[Ben Miceli]

And would you be satisfied with the sectoral tariff deal?

[Doug Ford]

Well, great, Great question. You know, it's a problem with President Trump and, you know, we're united. First of all, I've never seen this country more united ever, in all my years of being in politics. And it's a great feeling, all provinces, territories, municipalities and the federal government. But, you know, Prime Minister Carney is trying his best, but this guy will say something one day and he'll wake up and the cheese slips off the cracker, and then all of a sudden he goes the other way and you're thinking, how do you deal with a guy like this? Are we hoping that we can get a deal with zero tariffs? Yes, but I always say how we can, we can kick back and it's not. The American people kick back at President Trump and let's start on shoring everything, absolutely everything we possibly can, like I beams, those big steel I beams. I didn't realize we don't make them here until found out during the trade deal. Or the rails that are beautiful, our cars are going to be made. Sorry, the streetcars are going to be made down the street. We don't make the rails. So we need to start making rails and start making sure that we make those steel I beams. And aluminum cans. Now, aluminum cans are my favorite. The Coke, the Pepsis, all the other beverages, the Molsons, the Labats, the craft brewers. We have. We're the kings of aluminum in Quebec. They ship the aluminum down, 25% tariff. They get printed, informed, 25% back tariffs. So my question was, why aren't we making aluminum cans here? Now we're going to be making aluminum cans. They're going to lose a billion dollars with a business in the US and same with tin. Tin cans from defasco. Ship it down to the US they get formed. I had a meeting with the big users of the tins. Now we're bringing a line up here and they're going to be losing out on about 1.3 billion cans just on the tin cans. But I want to. We can build anything here. We're an economic powerhouse. You know, folks, we don't have to take a back backseat to anyone in the world. And we sure the heck don't have to take a backseat to President Trump. He needs to remember we're his. Yes, they're our number one customer, but we're their number one customer. You hear about all these deals he's making. He's making and they're good, good countries, Japan and Korea and. But I'll give you an example with Japan, he said he made this beautiful deal and everything and God bless him. But they buy $79 billion with the products US off of off of the US Canada buys $359 billion US off off the folks south of the border. 9 million Americans wake up every single morning to produce a widget or good just for Ontario alone. Those 9 million jobs are in jeopardy right now. We buy more products off the US Then Japan, Korea, China, the UK and France combined. So I wouldn't roll over. And I told the Prime Minister, do not roll over. Hit that guy back as hard as we possibly can. And that's what we need to do. And we can do it. We can build anything here in Canada. Absolutely anything, from the beautiful trains that we build here to the planes, to automobiles, to satellites, to jet engines. And the list could go on and on and on. And our strength are the people. We have the brightest people anywhere in the world right here in Ontario. So when everyone goes out, another very powerful tool are the people of Canada. When you go out and you go to buy a product, just flip it around the back and see where it's manufactured. Buy Canadian when you can. Anything possible. And I gotta call one company out that I learned when I was just two days ago, I met with all these tin can users and their food products, you know, is a company called Campbell Soup. They told me that Campbell Soup's putting a Canadian flag on their cans. They closed their plants here, they moved everything down to the US and they put recipe made in Canada. What sort of nonsense is that? Don't let them hoodwink you. I'm going to call them out again. I'm going to show you one of their cans. It's unacceptable that they do that. You know, don't try to pull one over people's eyes. Canadians are too smart for that. So please, when you go shopping, I know it's not always possible. Buy Canadian as you as much as you can. So we'll, we're going to win this thing one way or another. We're going to go down and we're.

[Ben Miceli]

Going to roll over.

[Doug Ford]

We'll keep fighting every, every single day.

[Ben Miceli]

Stephen Harper FORMER Prime Minister in the mid 2000s to early 2010ish is 2015 I think right again, pro America, like super pro America. And Harper's like, I was wrong. He goes, if you asked me a Year ago I would have told you, lean in, work with the Trump administration. He goes, I was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Do not do, do not make bad deals. And he goes, that's how the rest of the world feels right now. Here, play this clip.

[Stephen Harper]

Look, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna put it in this context just so everyone understands. You know, I was, I think it's fair to say, probably the most pro American prime minister Canadian history. And I tell people that if a year ago the government had asked me, you know, President Trump's coming in, he's talking about, you know, big challenges on trade, USMCA tariffs, what would you advise? I would have said a year ago, this is a real opportunity for Canada to really deepen its economic and security partnership with the United States. However, when this government did actually ask me a few weeks ago, my advice, my advice was the opposite. My advice was, yes, you know, on the economy, we've got to kind of get something short term worked out with the Trump administration. But this really is a wake up call from, for this country to truly diversify its trade export markets. That's why, you know, that's why we did sign the trade deals all around the world, Europe, Asia Pacific, the Americas and there's, and Canada has been, to be blunt, this is, you know, Nothing against the U.S. the reality is, independent of the current disputes, Canada has been, to use business term, and I'm in the investment business now. We have been grossly overweight the United States as a country and there is no reason for that. Just because we have that geographic proximity does not justify the degree of dependence that we have on a single market, which is sometimes disadvantageous. And the other thing, you know, in terms of security, I, my advice to the government is yes, absolutely, spend more on defense. We should been doing it all along. But let's, while we spend a lot more in defense, while the border is a shared responsibility, let's make sure we spend a lot more on defense so that we can be independently responsible for our own land, seas and skies, independent of the United States. And I'm just going to tell you right now, I, you know, I one political role I still have. I chair the Global Federation of Conservative Parties. And I can tell you that this is the advice every allied capital is getting from everybody like me that they talk to. And this is not ideal, but I just think it's a reality. The cat's out of the bag, you can't or two spaces out of the two. Whatever you want to call it, you can't put it back. And I think it's unfortunate. I think in the long term, this will actually, this direction will weaken the free world more than it will. More than it will help it. And it will, I think, ultimately weaken the United States as well. So I think it's unfortunate, but that is the reality of the situation that, that we have to deal with.

[Ben Miceli]

And then, so you can see the chaos of all of this. Then you have Kevin Hassett on. If tariff rates are now locked in because Donald Trump said August one, then they're locked. And he goes, well, it's up to Donald Trump to decide. We'll see what he does. Well, I mean, you know what Donald Trump to decide, he gonna wake up one day and fire the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner. He wakes up one day angry, he does this, wakes up another day angry, and does that. He's arbitrary, capricious, reckless, malicious. Anyway, here's Kevin Hassett. Let's play it.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

Are the tariff rates locked in or are they still up for negotiation?

[J]

I think that these. We have eight deals that cover about 55% of world GDP with our biggest trading partners, the EU and Japan, Korea and so on. And I expect that those batters are more or less locked in, although they'll have to be some dancing around the edges about exactly what we mean when we do this or that. For the deals that aren't ready yet, they're going to get the reciprocal rates, you know, you know, soon. And then we would expect that there might continue to be negotiations with those countries.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

For those eight deals that you say are deals that are announced, you're saying more or less, are they locked in?

[J]

Yeah, the president will decide what the president decides. But. But the president likes those deals. The Europeans like those deals. And they're absolutely historically wonderful deals. Think about it. We've got Europe agreeing to open their markets to our products so our farmers, our small businessmen can sell stuff in Europe like they never could before. And they're letting us charge a 50% tariff, which is going to raise maybe about $100 billion a year.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

And I think people are curious because they remember that back in April, when President Trump first announced these tariffs, he then backtracked when the bond market was spooked. Could a market reaction prompt President Trump to change these tariff rates again?

[J]

The markets have seen what we're doing and celebrated them. And so I don't see how that would happen.

[Dominique LeBlanc]

Okay, but not ruling it out.

[J]

No, I would rule it out because these are the final deals.

[Ben Miceli]

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