Furious Pope Rips Trump After Death Threat…Trump Loses It?!!!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode Title: Furious Pope Rips Trump After Death Threat…Trump Loses It?!!!

Date: April 13, 2026
Hosts: Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas
Guest: Christopher Hale (Catholic writer, founder of the Letters from Leo Substack)

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Overview

This episode dives into the unprecedented public clash between Pope Leo XIV and former President Donald Trump, focusing on Trump’s catastrophic war in Iran and his response to the Pope’s fierce condemnation. Following a reported death threat from the Trump administration against the Pope and the Vatican’s outspoken moral opposition to American foreign policy, the Meiselas brothers break down these dramatic developments—and what they signal for U.S. politics, the Catholic Church, and the broader global struggle for democracy and humanity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pope Leo XIV’s Public Condemnation of Trump and the Iran War

[03:26 – 08:56]

• Pope Leo XIV delivered his "sharpest condemnation" yet of the Trump administration’s war in Iran during a prayer vigil, calling the current moment a “delusion of omnipotence” and condemning the misuse of God’s name to justify violence.
• Urges leaders to reject becoming “mute, blind and deaf idol[s]” obsessed with power, declaring: “Enough of war. True strength is shown in serving life.”
• Emotional focus on the suffering of children in war zones, encouraging the faithful to “listen to the children... listen to the children.”
• Affirms the universality of the Pope’s message, transcending religious lines: “Stand up for humanity. These are basic principles.”
• Pope Leo responds to threats with increased resolve to call out the Trump regime’s abuses.

2. Reported Death Threat & The "Avignon Papacy" Warning

[07:20 – 08:56]

• The Trump administration, via the Secretary of Defense, reportedly threatened Pope Leo XIV’s ambassador by referencing the “Avignon Papacy”—an era when the papacy was relocated and effectively hijacked—which was interpreted as a veiled death threat against the Pope and a threat to violently suppress Vatican resistance.
• Instead of retreating, Pope Leo and senior Catholic leaders intensify their opposition to Trump’s war and domestic policies.

3. Unified Response from American Catholic Leadership—and the Pope’s Symbolic Decisions

[05:37 – 08:56] | [16:54 – 17:20]

• Three leading American cardinals give a joint interview on “60 Minutes” condemning Trump’s Iran war, ICE policy, and reporting that Spanish-language Mass attendance has dropped 30% due to fear under his administration.
• Pope Leo XIV chooses to spend America’s 250th birthday in Lampedusa, Italy—known for migrant drownings—instead of the U.S., signaling solidarity with the marginalized and a rebuke of American policy.

Notable Quote – Cardinal Robert McElroy’s Homily ([08:56 – 10:05]):

“It is not enough to say we have prayed, we must also act. For it is very possible that the negotiations will fail ... and our president will move to reenter this immoral war. ... As disciples of Jesus Christ ... we must answer vocally ... not in our name, not at this moment, not with our country.”
– Cardinal Robert McElroy

4. Trump’s Unhinged Response & AI Imagery

[04:01 – 12:24]

• Trump attacks Pope Leo XIV on social media, calling him “weak on crime,” “terrible on foreign policy,” and claiming, “he would not be the pope without me.”

• Posts AI-generated images of himself as Jesus, “blessing a sick person, with the American flag in the background”—described by hosts as “deranged AI slop."

• At a press conference, Trump doubles down, accusing the Pope of being “very liberal,” “a man that doesn’t believe in stopping crime,” and “a man that doesn’t think that we should be toying with a country that wants a nuclear weapon so they can blow up the world.”
  – ([11:21 – 12:24]) Quote:

  “I’m not a big fan of Pope Leo. … He’s a man that doesn’t believe in stopping crime. … I don’t like it. I’m not a fan of Pope Leo.”
  – Donald Trump

• Hosts express embarrassment at the spectacle of Trump using AI-generated religious imagery for self-aggrandizement ([19:37 – 20:14]).

5. Catholic Community Unites Behind the Pope

[12:24 – 18:59]

• Christopher Hale (guest and Letters from Leo author) frames the situation as “the most extraordinary moment in the history between the Catholic Church in the United States and this nation’s government."
• Points out that Trump’s claim to have “made” Pope Leo the Pope is especially blasphemous to Catholics, given the Church’s belief that God elects the Pope via the Holy Spirit:

  “In the Conclave ... the Holy Spirit is the director of the election of a Pope. … Donald Trump has said … he helped elect the Pope. ... Then [he] depicted himself as Jesus Christ. … Donald Trump is saying he is the Vicar of Christ.” – Christopher Hale ([13:31 – 15:40])

• Catholic support for the Pope spans all ideological wings ("from the right to the left ... even the fascists"), emphasizing his American roots and widespread, cross-partisan respect for his moral stance.
• Suggests Trump’s actions are causing a fissure among “MAGA Catholics”; many oppose the war in Iran, eroding Trump’s support within this key demographic ([17:03 – 18:59]).

6. Symbolism, Moral Authority, and Non-Religious Appeal

[18:59 – 22:05]

• Hosts and guest discuss the importance of symbolic acts in leadership, contrasting Leo XIV’s humble compassion with Trump’s self-glorifying, incoherent imagery.
• Emphasize that the Pope’s popularity extends beyond the Catholic Church; his moral message resonates with non-Catholics and even non-believers:

  “He’s the pope of the entire world, not just the Catholic Church. … People know compassion and goodness and they see it in Leo.” – Christopher Hale ([20:28 – 22:05])

• Hale ends with a challenge to Trump’s vice president (a Catholic convert) to respond to Trump’s attacks on the Pope:

  “If he had any integrity, if he had any fidelity to his faith, he would stand up to Donald Trump and even resign his office. ... [Trump's attack] should hang around his neck the next few years as he attempts to become the next president.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pope Leo XIV (via summary):
  “Leaders who turn their backs on God ... have turned themselves and their own power into a mute, blind and deaf idol that demands the whole world bend its knee. Enough of war. True strength is shown in serving life.”
  [04:44]
• Cardinal Robert McElroy:
  “It is not enough to say we have prayed, we must also act … Not in our name, not at this moment, not with our country.”
  [09:04]
• Donald Trump:
  “I don’t like it. I’m not a fan of Pope Leo. He’s a very liberal person and he’s a man that doesn’t believe in stopping crime ... I’m not a big fan of Pope Leo.”
  [11:29 – 12:24]
• Christopher Hale:
  “Donald Trump has said that the Vicar of Christ … is not the Vicar of Christ; that Donald Trump is the Vicar of Christ.”
  [14:20]

  “From the far right to the far left ... there is support for the Pope tonight. ... And so we respect the Pope, no matter who the Pope is. But this is one of our own ... We love him because he’s our Holy Father, but we also love him because he’s one of us. He’s our brother. He’s our fellow American.”
  [17:03] “To use a Christian phrase, it seems demonic. To use a secular phrase, it seems crazy. ... It should hang around [Trump’s VP’s] neck the next few years as he attempts to become the next president.”
  [22:00]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:26 – 08:56: Pope Leo XIV’s condemnation of Trump and the Iran War, Avignon Papacy threat explained
• 08:56 – 10:05: Cardinal Robert McElroy’s rallying homily for peace and activism
• 10:05 – 12:24: Trump’s unhinged social media/press response, including AI-Jesus imagery and direct attacks on the Pope
• 12:24 – 15:40: Christopher Hale explains the theological and political stakes around Trump’s claims
• 15:59 – 18:59: Hosts and Hale discuss Catholic identity, unity behind the Pope, and fallout for Trump/MAGA Catholics
• 19:37 – 20:14: Hosts analyze Trump’s AI image, expressing national embarrassment
• 20:28 – 22:05: The Pope’s broad appeal, leadership symbolism, and Hale’s closing challenge to Trump’s VP

---

Tone and Language

• Hosts: Outspoken, passionate, at times incredulous (especially regarding Trump’s social media behavior), with a strong focus on democracy, decency, and unity against authoritarianism.
• Guest (Christopher Hale): Thoughtful, earnest, and deeply informed about Catholic doctrine, politics, and community sentiment.

---

Summary

This episode covers one of the most extraordinary clashes in US political–religious history: an American-born Pope’s unequivocal moral and political opposition to a sitting US president, culminating in death threats, AI-driven self-aggrandizement, and a global crisis of leadership. The Meiselas brothers and guest Christopher Hale highlight the mounting Catholic and public unity behind Pope Leo XIV, Trump’s deepening isolation, and the critical importance of compassion, moral courage, and action in defense of humanity and democracy.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

out Donald Trump and his criminal regime. Pope Leo the 14th continue out Donald Trump's unlawful and catastrophic war in Iran and Donald Trump's war crimes abroad, as well as Donald Trump's despicable treatment of migrants in the United States. Now Donald Trump is absolutely losing it

[Podcast Co-Host]

as three of the top cardinals, three of the top individuals who are representing the Catholic Church in the United states went on 60 Minutes as well, and

[Podcast Host]

they called out Donald Trump.

[Podcast Co-Host]

I'll talk more about that in a moment. And to show you what Donald Trump

[Podcast Host]

is doing and we'll dig into this as well, Donald Trump went on one

[Podcast Co-Host]

of these like thousand word social media post, deranged, unhinged slop that he puts out there, attacking Pope Leo the 14th as weak on crime, as being terrible for foreign policy, that he would not be the pope without me. And then Donald Trump started posting photos AI images of himself as Jesus blessing a sick person. That is how sick and demented Donald

[Podcast Host]

Trump is right now.

[Podcast Co-Host]

While there is this catastrophic war in Iran, while people are suffering in the United States and across the world because of Donald Trump's behavior and actions. He is posting images of himself as AI Jesus right now with the American flag in the background. Some deranged AI slop. Now over the weekend, in a prayer vigil for peace, Pope Leo XIV delivered his sharpest condemnation of the Trump Vance war on Iran to date. He called the current moment a quote, delusion of omnipotence and condemned the dragging of God's name into the discourse of death. Leaders who turn their backs on God, the pope said, have turned themselves and their own power and into a mute, blind and deaf idol that demands the whole world bend its knee Enough of war. True strength is shown in serving life. Pope Leo the 14th said he told the faithful that he receives letters from children in war zones every day. Quote, they tell of the pain and sorrow of war while grown ups boast of its effects. When we must listen to the children, listen to the children. Now, as I've said before, people who watch the Midas Touch network come from all different backgrounds and faiths. Whether you believe in God or don't believe in God, whether you're Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, whatever, believe the children, believe your eyes. Stand up for humanity. These are basic principles that we talk about here. And I am sure as heck glad that you have Pope Leo XIV out there calling Donald Trump out and using his powerful position in the Vatican to do so. Also Pope Leo XIV undeterred. We reported earlier this week how Donald Trump and the department, the Defense Department, summoned Pope Leo xiv, top ambassador to the United States and basically threatened to kill the pope. I mean, I don't want to mince words here. They threatened to do a, quote, Avignon Papacy, the 14th century Papacy, where the French back then basically kidnapped and hijacked the pope, killed them, brought the papacy to Avignon in France. And the Trump regime told Pope Leo XIV's ambassador, essentially, if you don't support what we're doing, if Pope Leo XIV doesn't shut his mouth, we are going to be doing to you what the French did in the 14th century. Prepare for an avenue and papacy, which was interpreted back in the Holy See, back in the Vatican as a death threat, as a threat that the Trump regime would invade or attack. And you've seen Trump's behavior throughout the world. And so that's how it was viewed there. But if anything, this has only made Pope Leo XIV louder and making sure to call out all of Donald Trump's behavior. Now, Pope Leo the 14th top three American cardinals gave their first joint television interview to 60 Minutes. They condemned the Iran war, called out ICE and revealed that Spanish language mass attendance has dropped 30% because of fear. And they made clear that Leo's decision to spend America's 250th birthday on Lampedusa in Italy, where migrants drown instead of the country where he was born. Remember, he was born in Chicago. Pope Leo XIV is a deliberate message about where moral authority lives. He's sending a message. One of the cardinals said that his top priority right now is to be with those who are downcast and marginalized. I also want to give a shout out to Pope Leo XIV's close ally, Cardinal Robert McElroy he's the archbishop of Washington, D.C. and let me share with you what his homily said when he talked about Donald Trump's immoral and unlawful war in Iran.

[Podcast Host]

Here's what he said and when we

[Cardinal Robert McElroy]

leave this church this night, we must move beyond prayer. As citizens and believers in this democracy that we cherish so deeply, we must advocate for peace with our representatives and leaders. It is not enough to say we have prayed, we must also act. For it is very possible that the negotiations will fail because of recalcitrants on one or both sides and our president will move to re enter this immoral war. At that critical juncture, as disciples of Jesus Christ called to be peacemakers in the world, we must answer vocally and in no, not in our name, not at this moment, not with our country.

[Podcast Host]

Powerful, powerful words. Now going back to Donald Trump's social media post last night. He says Pope Leo is weak on crime and terrible on foreign policy. He talks about fear of the Trump administration, but doesn't mention fear of the Catholic Church. Then Donald Trump goes on to say that Pope Leo XIV wasn't on any list to be the Pope and he's only the Pope because of me. He says that he meets with Obama sympathizers like David Axelrod, a loser from the left who is one of those who wanted churchgoers and clerics to be arrested. Leo should get his act together as pope, use common sense, stop catering to the radical left and focus on being a great pope, not a politician. It's hurting him very badly and more importantly, it's hurting the Catholic Church. Donald J. Trump and here's what Donald Trump said on the tarmac last night after getting back from a UFC fight where he was telling the UFC fighters how handsome and good looking they were. While negotiations fell apart in Iran because the Trump regime tried to impose conditions on Iran that differed from the 10 point negotiating framework that the Trump regime agreed to. Let's play it.

[Donald Trump]

And they're going to go back filled up with oil.

[Interviewer]

Why did you attack Pope Leo on truth social media?

[Donald Trump]

I don't think he's doing a very good job. He likes crime. I guess. He hit us. Think of it. He's worried about fear. What about the fear when the ministers and the priests and all of those great people that were arrested during COVID and in many cases they're outside 10ft apart and they were arrested. So we don't like it. We don't like a pope that's going to say that it's okay to have a nuclear weapon. We don't want a pope that says crime is okay in our cities. I don't like it. I'm not a big fan of Pope Leo. He's a very liberal person and he's a man that doesn't believe in stopping crime. He's a man that doesn't think that we should be toying with a country that wants a nuclear weapon so they can blow up the world. I'm not a fan of Pope Leo.

[Podcast Host]

I want to bring in right now someone who is a fan of Pope Leo. Christopher Hal, the founder of Letters from Leo, a very popular substack regarding Pope Leo xiv. You cover the happenings of the Catholic Church and specifically right now the intersection of the Catholic Church asserting itself with moral and formal authority in these moments of Trump fascism and Trump attack on basic dignity and decency. You helped us break down last week the death threats on Pope Leo. The 14th. That video that you and I did on YouTube has got close to 2 million views already. So it's reaching a very big audience. Christopher. So talk to us about what you're seeing here. Now just give you a quick background on Christopher as well. He did a Catholic outreach in the Obama administration and you've written before for lots of different kind of top websites and magazines on the Catholic Church and your substack is just crushing it right now. So, so talk to us about what you're hearing about all of this.

[Christopher Hale]

This is the most extraordinary moment in the history between the Catholic Church in the United States and this nation's government. It's been an extraordinary week. Avion Gate as we might call it. What happened, what was broke last week. This, I mean this is the President of the United States attacking Pope Leo xiv. Mind you, an American born Pope, the only American born Pope probably maybe ever at that, will like another one after him for a long time. So it's an extraordinary moment. The latest that we have heard is that Pope Leo was made aware of this early morning hours in Rome. And so we expect him to be asked about it. And I think that what we'll find is that Pope Leo is not going to engage in one on one tit for tats with Donald Trump. He's going to look the other way. This was a stunning attack. I think the most part of it that struck me the most is that Donald Trump credited himself for getting Pope Leo elected. I want to note something, Catholics who are watching probably know this, but others might not. In the Conclave it's believed the Catholic belief is that the Holy Spirit, which is God, which is part. We have a triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the director of the election of a Pope. So God helps elect the Pope. God is in play in the Pope. And Donald Trump has said that, no, no, no. He helped elect the Pope. He got the Pope elected. And we saw that grotesque image of him depicting himself as Jesus Christ. That is the answer tonight. Donald Trump has said that the Vicar of Christ, Pope Leo xiv, we believe he acts and ministers in the name of Jesus Christ. He is not the Vicar of Christ. That Donald Trump is the Vicar of Christ. You might recall last April and May after Pope Francis died, that Donald Trump tweeted a photo of him as the Pope. He's jealous of Pope Leo xiv. He's jealous of his standing in the world. He's jealous of his popularity among the American people. At 80%, Donald Trump in the high 30s. I think that's what's happening here. He's lashing out and he looks foolish.

[Podcast Host]

My wife is Catholic. She talks about how proud she is of Pope Leo xiv. So does her entire family. I'm hearing a lot of that now because, you know, here's someone. And again, to be clear, you know, this network, this channel, regardless of religion, you know, this is a welcoming place

[Podcast Co-Host]

for all and people who don't follow

[Podcast Host]

any religion, for atheists, just people here who care about compassion, love, decency, human dignity, this network stands up for those kind of values. And what I appreciate, though, about Pope Leo XIV is that regardless of what our views on this religion or that religion, I think it's an undisputed fact

[Podcast Co-Host]

that being the Pope is a position

[Podcast Host]

of power, is a position of trust.

[Podcast Co-Host]

And how you wield that moral and

[Podcast Host]

formal authority, you know, says a lot about your papacy, but also about, you

[Podcast Co-Host]

know, the state of the human condition

[Podcast Host]

right now as well.

[Podcast Co-Host]

And so the fact that we have

[Podcast Host]

someone who's out there calling it out this way, also in multiple languages, switching from this language to English, that, you know, and, and, and doing it in such an inclusive way.

[Podcast Co-Host]

And then what seems to be really incredible, and you can talk about this,

[Podcast Host]

too, is how you have, you know, the cardinals and the bishops and, you know, and, and, and other ranks standing

[Podcast Co-Host]

together like total unity and talk about it because there are different factions and

[Podcast Host]

different groups, you know, and some are

[Podcast Co-Host]

more conservative and some, you know, and that means different things in the Catholic Church. But to have everybody together and unified

[Podcast Host]

and marching one, it is kind of a beautiful thing.

[Christopher Hale]

It's, I mean, from the right to the Left, I mean, from the far right to the far left, from truly the socialist to the fascists, from all wings of the Catholic Church, there is support for the Pope tonight. You can see it online. There's no one defending Donald Trump, at least in the Catholic world. And I think that that is remarkable. One thing to realize, you notice for your spouse, even if you're religious or not, if you were born into the Catholic faith, if you were baptized Catholic, it stays with you. Even if you don't practice the faith anymore, it stays with you in your bones. It has an indelible mark on you. You can dislike the church, even. It still means something to you. And so we respect the Pope, no matter who the Pope is. But this is one of our own. Pope Leo XIV was born in our nation. He voted in the 2024 election. He grew up in this country. He is an American through and through, and we love him. We love him because he's our Holy Father, but we also love him because he's one of us. He's our brother. He's our fellow American. So I think the sentiment tonight is shared across the Catholic Church, even, I think, most importantly, politically, I think this is devastating to MAGA Catholics. There has been the Iran war, has been a fissure within the Catholic community, the MAGA Catholic community, because a lot of MAGA Catholics are anti war, as the church is as well. And I just think that bleeding is going to go further and further out. Donald Trump is going to take a significant hit on his popularity ratings, not just across the Catholic community, but across the nation. I think we will see a significant turning point, even going down further than he is right now.

[Podcast Host]

You know, and one of the things that Pope Leo XIV recognizes that world leaders recognize in general is symbolism, you know, doing things very deliberately, sending messages. And when we're in positions of leadership, everything sometimes gets analyzed. And so in the past, you know, leaders are often very careful when to speak, when not to speak. And so I just reflect on Donald Trump's post where he was an AI image of him as Jesus. And then I'm just looking around at the image, and I'm looking on the top of his head to see, like, what. What is actually in this image.

[Podcast Co-Host]

And these are either random GI Joe

[Podcast Host]

action figures in heaven, or it's characters from Metal Gear Solid, Front, Mission, Bioshock. It's unclear what the heck that even is right there.

[Podcast Co-Host]

But this just goes to this point where I think we have to just

[Podcast Host]

question the very basic core competency and

[Podcast Co-Host]

just what the heck Is this like,

[Podcast Host]

this is the opposite of leadership. And again, we'll end on this note and I'll just get your take, kind

[Podcast Co-Host]

of tying this all together. When you look at an image like you're like, what are you doing?

[Podcast Host]

And how do you not have secondhand or firsthand embarrassment? I'm embarrassed when I see that as an American to be like, that's the guy who's representing me.

[Podcast Co-Host]

Talk to us about that before you

[Podcast Host]

go and what you're hearing within the church.

[Christopher Hale]

Well, I will say this. I think that one of the things that you see that's remarkable in the polling about Pope Leo XIV and his predecessor, Pope Francis, both popular among Catholics, but sometimes even more popular among non Catholics, the historic notion of the pope is he's the pope of the entire world, not just the Catholic Church. And so this is an extraordinary popular man throughout the entire country because of those symbols that go beyond religion that you talked about. People know compassion and goodness and they see and they see in Leo as a Christian. I'll say is I see in Leo and he reminds me of Jesus. The stories I heard about Jesus growing up of compassion for the poor, for the outcasts, for the stranger, for the sick. But any person of any faith or no faith at all can see that the goodness that radiates out of him and then the foil in Donald Trump where there is no goodness out of this man. I think to use a Christian phrase, it seems demonic. To use a secular phrase, it seems crazy. And so I think tonight has brought that to the forefront. And I'll end with this. His vice president is, I think, the top candidate, leading candidate in 2028 who converted to Catholicism in 2019. If he had any integrity, if he had any fidelity to his faith, he would stand up to Donald Trump and even resign his office. Tonight, Donald Trump has attacked his vice president's pope, his faith, and I don't think he will step up. But he should own this. He should own what's happening here. And it should hang around his neck the next few years as he attempts to become the next president.

[Podcast Host]

Christopher Howe, thanks for joining us as always. And everybody, make sure you subscribe right now to Letters of Leo, Letters from leo, Letters to Leo. It's on substack. Check it out right now. Christopher Hell, appreciate you.

[Christopher Hale]

Thanks for having me.

[Podcast Host]

Everybody hit subscribe here. Let's get to 7 million subscribers. Want to stay plugged in? Become a subscriber to our [e-mail]. you'll get daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski ad free episodes of our podcast and more exclusive content Only [e-mail].

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