Narrator/Announcer (2:01)

This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys star in the new Netflix series the Beast in Me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt. You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. Any reaction to Lee racing the bill without adding amendments or changing it?

Ken Klippenstein (2:33)

I am.

Political Analyst/Guest (2:35)

I'm deeply disappointed in this outcome. I think I'm told I've been at the state dinner. I don't know. I was just told that Chuck Schumer rushed it to the floor and put it out there preemptively. It needed amendments. I just spoke to the President about that. We'll see what happens.

Ken Klippenstein (2:49)

So is he. Do you think he may veto it? You say you spoke to the President.

Political Analyst/Guest (2:52)

I'm not saying that.

Ken Klippenstein (2:53)

Is he supportive of it in its current form?

Political Analyst/Guest (2:56)

We both have concerns about it, so we'll see. I was standing there with. With the Crown Prince.

Host/Commentator (3:01)

Are you frustrated in the Majority Leader? Are you upset with the majority leader? Run, Maga Mike, run. You see MAGA Mike, they're panicking and running through the halls of the Capitol building. Yesterday, after he was caught off guard when the MAGA Republicans in the Senate refused to object to the unanimous consent to release the Epstein files, that that was put on the floor in the Senate. So we know that earlier in the day, the House passed the resolution to release the Epstein files via vote of 427 to 1. The one MAGA Republican who voted against releasing the files was MAGA Republican Clay Higgins. It then went to the Senate. MAGA Mike thought that he was having a productive conversation with the Republican Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, and that they were gonna add amendments to basically derail and the release of the Epstein files in the Senate. And MAGA Mike was telling Donald Trump through a back channel that this isn't going to pass in the Senate. Don't worry. And then the Democrats outmaneuvered the Republicans. Democratic leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, goes on the Senate floor. He requests unanimous consent to release the Epstein files. Not a single Republican objects to it. Because which Republican wants to be the guy or the gal who objects to the release of the Epstein files? And therefore the Epstein files resolution in the Senate was deemed to have passed and the Senate therefore voted to release the files. So now it's passed in both the House and the Senate. What's supposed to take place next? Is MAGA Mike supposed to transmit the resolution from the House to the Senate, which has already passed it, and then it will immediately go on Donald Trump's desk. And we can call Donald Trump's bluff to see if he's actually going to sign this thing or how he and MAGA Mike are planning on derailing it. But MAGA Mike thought that he had this thing rigged and wired and that the Republicans in the Senate were gonna have his back, and they didn't. That's why MAGA Mike is panicking right there. I'll just show you what MAGA Mike was saying at a press conference that he held earlier in the day where he Said, look, the Senate has all of these issues, and the Senate's going to be objecting to these things. And I think the only reason I'm voting yes is because I've heard in the Senate that we're gonna add some amendments to this because Mag and Mike thought that that would derail the release of the Epstein file resolution. Watch what MAGA Mike said during a press conference earlier in the day.

Political Analyst/Guest (5:43)

I'll tell you, there's a handful of Republicans, Judiciary Committee members, and a few others who are really struggling, as I have been, about whether or not they could even vote yes today because of this, because we don't have an absolute guarantee that this will be fixed in the Senate. I have a high degree of confidence in that. And that's why, you know, that's why I'll be voting yes today.

Host/Commentator (6:04)

So now what MAGA Mike's fallback is, is that MAGA Mike and Donald Trump plan to invoke national security in order to avoid releasing the Epstein files. We'll see ultimately, if. If Donald Trump vetoes the Epstein resolution on that basis. But it doesn't. You heard the reporter ask MAGA Mike, is Trump gonna veto it? And I can't talk about it. I'm not gonna talk about it. But you see, they didn't rule it out. But what they're prepping for right now is a resol. Is a way to invoke national security in order to block the release of the Epstein files. Now, MAGA Mike, when he was speaking on the floor yesterday, before the resolution to release the Epstein files was voted on, he mentioned the term classified information. National security concerns. Remember what he said yesterday?

Political Analyst/Guest (6:58)

Here, play this clip number five, national security concerns. Okay. The discharge requires the Attorney General to release within 30 days, quote, classified information to the maximum extent possible. This ignores the principal that declassification should always rest and always has rested with the agency that originated the intelligence. Why? So that they can protect their critical sources and methods. It is incredibly dangerous to demand that officials or employees of the DOJ declassify materials that originated in other agencies and intelligence agencies.

Host/Commentator (7:38)

Now, take that. And also look what MAGA Republican James Comer, who leads the House Oversight Committee, what he said to Laura Ingraham Adair so ago where he said, basically, we already have pretty much everything, 65,000 files. And he said, they, being the Trump regime, released all they could release, all they could release. In essence saying, we have everything that they were legally obligated to turn over. Here, play this clip.

Ken Klippenstein (8:07)

So why not just release the files? I Mean, if there's nothing in there, who cares?

Host/Commentator (8:13)

Why not for transparency sake?

Ken Klippenstein (8:14)

And the administration, obviously players, the administration said they were going to be released, and then some were released, but not all of them. The President said, go ahead and release them.

Host/Commentator (8:23)

So just get it out there and.

Ken Klippenstein (8:26)

Have it done with.

Host/Commentator (8:27)

Well, that's what I've encouraged the White House to do, and they're working with us. They. They've released what they can legally release. Now, you heard what he said there. They released what they legally were required to release. And this also coincides with Donald Trump's social media post where he said, as I said on Friday, they could release the files and the House Oversight Committee can have whatever they are legally entitled to. Okay, These words are not just happenstance. They are being picked specifically. Now, the piece of paper that MAGA Mike was holding was a document labeled the flaws of HR4405 could re victimize Epstein victims, create new victims, and damage the judicial system. By the way, when they talk about creating new victims, what Mag and Mike is suggesting, as disgusting as it sounds, is that the rich and powerful men who are in these files, they would now become the victims. And so he says, we need to protect them. I know it's sick, but that's what he means. But you go through this document, you go to subsection 6 and it says, National Security Concerns. HR 4405 requires the Attorney General to complete the release of information within 30 days, including to declass classified information to the maximum extent possible. This raises two concerns. First, it may not be feasible to properly undertake such an extensive review in such a short period of time. Second, it ignores the principle that declassification should rest with the agency that originated the intelligence so as to protect sources and methods. It is incredibly unwise to demand that DOJ declassify materials originated by other agencies. HR4405 should be amended to direct relevant intelligence agencies to. To work with the Attorney General to declassify in a reasonable timeframe. That brings me to Ken Klippenstein's article from yesterday. Epstein Bill passes. As top officials circulate plan to block transparency, an official document warns of national security concerns. I want to bring in Ken Klippenstein, who authored this incredible piece on substack. Ken, it's great to see you again. We're all trying to figure out what steps Donald Trump and MAGA Mike have up their sleeve next to block the release. Even if they pretend now they're supporting it because they know they were going to lose the vote, it seems where they're going, national security, and then they may raise other objections, but that they're going to say national security issues. Talk to us about your piece, Ken.

Ken Klippenstein (11:07)

Yeah, so it seems clear that the Trump administration is going to exploit people's concerns about national security generally, of which the president has all kinds of authorities and privileges. He's going to invoke those powers to prevent as much of the Epstein files from being released as possible. And that's clear from not just Mike Johnson, Speaker Johnson's comments that you played earlier, but also a document that, as was described to me, is being circulated on the Hill as sort of talking points that they wanted to try to stress. It sounds like a lot of the Republicans didn't listen to it. I think they're under so much pressure, not just from their base, but the general American public. There's polling suggesting 90% of Americans think that all of the Epstein files should be released, not just certain ones, all of them. So they're under enormous pressure. And because of that, I think we saw pretty much one guy echo the concerns laid out in that document, which listed what it described as five different, they called it flaws with the legislation that ironically ended up passing with Speaker Johnson's vote. So for whatever reason, he was able to get over those flaws. But number five on that is exactly what you were saying just now, national security concerns. And the argument they make is that by publishing these things, who knows what's going to impede American interests? He mentioned sources and methods. That's a reference to the human sources, spies that the intelligence community relies on for its information methods, things like NSA wiretaps, signals intelligence. But when you look at what The Justice Department, FBI have pulled together in relation to Jeffrey Epstein, 300 gigabytes of information, according to their own press release several months ago. To say that that is going to constitute anything close to a majority of that information is absurd. I mean, maybe there's a little bit of that, but there's no way that's most of the information they've pulled together, you know, surveillance of Epstein and whoever his associates might have been. And it's like all this hand wringing about something for which there's clearly overwhelming public interest. And this is coming from administration where. Do you see hand wringing when they want to slash the federal budget with doge? Do you see hand wringing when they want to deploy federal troops to American cities whose governors don't want them? Do you see hand wringing when they want to blow up ships in the Caribbean? No, you don't see any of this legal hand wringing, and suddenly they're like attorneys worrying about all these potentialities.

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Host/Commentator (15:15)

Yeah, right. It was. Also, I don't want to change topics, but when it came to not paying the SNAP benefits, that's where their lawyers gave a very nuanced analysis as well. They were like, well, actually, we could only give half here because of liquidity issues.

Ken Klippenstein (15:31)

What are you talking.

Host/Commentator (15:32)

Just making all. You're the guy who's saying there's $22 trillion invested listed, and now you're saying there's liquidity issues. So a legal analysis says you can't give SNAP benefits. And so, anyway, I don't want to. We'll talk more about the Epstein files now, though it seems like it's a massive game of hot potato. You go back to February, the hot potato was with the doj. Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, Dan Baggino, they did the whole fake Epstein file binders. They had the influencers show up. It seems like decades ago. Right. But that was back in February. The hot potatoes then basically left the doj, FBI, Patel, and they kind of threw it and made it a MAGA Mike and Congress issue. MAGA Mike then tried to throw the hot potato quickly to the Senate. Senator Thune and the MAGA Republicans there were like, we ain't touching this, Schumer, Go do your unanimous consent. We don't want anything to do with this. Just pass this freaking thing. And now it's back with Donald Trump. And basically one of the thesis of your article is that now Trump didn't get the help he was looking for in the House and the Senate. Now it's back at Trump. We'll see what he does. If he signs it or doesn't sign it, I'm sure there will be delay. And, you know, I doubt it'll happen instantaneously, but who knows? But even when he signs it, then the hot potato goes back to the doj, and now they're gonna look for their protectual reasons not to turn it over, and they're gonna say, national security, ongoing investigation, rolling production, victims, renew victims. Those are their arguments. And they'll probably drip, drip, drip, 1,000 documents a month. And then, look, we gave you this, we gave you that. And they're gonna do everything they can to avoid producing those documents that have Trump's name on. That's kind of what I think you suspect is happening.

Ken Klippenstein (17:22)

Yeah, exactly. Hot potato is a good word for it. This is something that maybe most of the country wants. Like, it's hard to think of something that there's broader support for. I mentioned the 90% support that a CBS YouGov poll found for releasing all of these things. Not just some of them, all of them. But it must be the only, you know, dozen or so guys who don't want to do it all happen to be in the Trump administration because not only have they pulled all these things together, and as was reported at the time, tasked, I think it was a thousand FBI agents with going through all the different field offices and pulling together any relevant information they could, they have it all centralized in one location. There's no more work that needs to be done. Literally all they would need to do is release that redact whatever victim information they would need to. So in a sense, the hard work has already been done. But once they finish that, they released a two page summary of what the documents were. And the Attorney General, Pam Bondi said that, you know, we have all this stuff, but unfortunately none of it is able to be released. And it's kind of like I could see an argument for, you know, not wanting to harm victims, that kind of thing. But to say that that's literally like you couldn't find anything. There's nothing in there. Nothing. In a years long investigation into not just Epstein, but people associated with him. And according to that justice department release, 1,000 victims affected. This was a big investigation. And the size of that document, the size of those documents that they pulled together, the 300 gigabytes that I mentioned before, that speaks to the size of the investigation. So there's a lot there. And I think it's very hard to believe that any substantial portion of that is going to involve state secrets or even victim information, because it's not like they're just looking at victims. The FBI, as was described to me, they have investigators doing things like electronic surveillance of Epstein's home. They have human intelligence, the form of informants, they have, you know, I mentioned camera. I mean, there's all kinds of ways that they collect intelligence. And to say that like most of that, much less all of it is something that people can't see, it's just absurd. And it's not how they've approached other things. For instance, when I mentioned the boat strikes in the Caribbean, it's like minutes after those that they just blast out camera footage of it. And you're going to tell me that's not sensitive. You know, we're getting that footage from drones. I mean, it's like actual killings that they just post to Twitter. But suddenly, oh no, there's nothing we can release. It just, it seems absurd on its face.

Host/Commentator (19:50)

Right, no, national security issues when it comes to releasing drone footage of war crimes in action. Yes, national security issues as it relates to Epstein sex trafficking ring Sarca 2000-2019. I mean, it absolutely doesn't make sense. But look, let's just say this before we go. The Trump, the emails from the Epstein estate. If you were to do like those word clouds or those word trees, like what name comes up the most, it would be Trump's. I mean, it was unbelievable. I mean I think Wall Street Journal did the analysis that there was 23,000 emails, about 2,300 email threads, and over 1600 of the threads somehow involved Donald Trump or Trump's name in it in disgusting, grotesque, odd, weird in all sorts of ways. So we know that. So to the extent they produce a subset of documents, again and Trump's name's not on it, it's obviously gonna raise red flags right away. And this is just gonna continue. Right? It's just gonna be like, we know, because how could it be that these emails have Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. He's like the main character. And then all of a sudden the files don't. When we know that, that. When we know that Bondi and Patel told Trump his name's like, all over these things. I'll give you the final word. Yeah.

Ken Klippenstein (21:10)

I think it's worth stressing just how important the information that this legislation is going after that is the Justice Department, FBI holdings, because those are going to be much more. Provide much more insight into what Epstein was up to than what we've seen. What was released about a week ago was very insightful. And you see people still tweeting out and discussing the emails, but that was pursuant to a subpoena to the Epstein estate. And so that would be what's in possession of Epstein's estate. But when you talk about the FBI, that's all of the intelligence and information that they've been. That they collected over the course of their investigations that I was describing before. So this is a completely different animal. Not just larger, but I think would be more incisive to the intent and activities that Epstein and whoever he knew was engaged with, which, again, 1,000 victims. That's the Justice Department's finding based on all that information. So I think it is very clearly in the public interest that this stuff get released. And again, the polling shows that that's something that an unusual degree of American agree on, which feels unusual these days.

Host/Commentator (22:16)

Ken Klippenstein. The Ken Klippenstein substack. Thanks so much for joining us.

Ken Klippenstein (22:20)

Good to be with you again.

Host/Commentator (22:22)

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