Loading summary
Narrator/Announcer
Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the Briefing with Jen Psaki and more. Voices you know and trust. Ms. Now is your source for news, opinion and the world. Our name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress and the truth that you've relied on for decades. We'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you. Ms. Now. Same mission, new name. Learn more at Ms. Now. Welcome to Walgreens. Looking for a holiday gift?
Ken Klippenstein
Sort of. My cousin Freddie showed up to surprise us.
Narrator/Announcer
Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise.
Host/Commentator
Exactly.
Ken Klippenstein
So now I have to get him.
Host/Commentator
A gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So if we can make it something.
Ken Klippenstein
Really nice but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect.
Narrator/Announcer
How about a keurig for 50% off?
Ken Klippenstein
Bingo.
Host/Commentator
Savings all season. The holiday road is long. We're with you all the way. Walgreens offer, valid November 26 through December 27. Exclusions apply.
Political Analyst/Guest
Hello, friends. Guess who? That's right, it is I, the replacer. Once again, I've been called on so you can play the new Call of Duty Black Ops 7.
Host/Commentator
With three expansive modes, 18 multiplayer maps.
Political Analyst/Guest
And the tastiest zombie gameplay you've ever freaking seen.
Ken Klippenstein
Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M for mature.
Political Analyst/Guest
This episode is brought to you by Corona. When you're on a beach with an ice cold Corona in hand, how can you not feel centered? But did you know you can get that vibe anywhere? That's because whether after work, at barbecues, or at a bar with just a squeeze of lime, Corona brings you La Playa mentality. Because while we all want the beach life, paradise doesn't always have palm trees. Corona La Playa awaits. Get yours@ordercorona.com Relax responsibly. Corona Extra beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL.
Narrator/Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys star in the new Netflix series the Beast in Me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt. You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. Any reaction to Lee racing the bill without adding amendments or changing it?
Ken Klippenstein
I am.
Political Analyst/Guest
I'm deeply disappointed in this outcome. I think I'm told I've been at the state dinner. I don't know. I was just told that Chuck Schumer rushed it to the floor and put it out there preemptively. It needed amendments. I just spoke to the President about that. We'll see what happens.
Ken Klippenstein
So is he. Do you think he may veto it? You say you spoke to the President.
Political Analyst/Guest
I'm not saying that.
Ken Klippenstein
Is he supportive of it in its current form?
Political Analyst/Guest
We both have concerns about it, so we'll see. I was standing there with. With the Crown Prince.
Host/Commentator
Are you frustrated in the Majority Leader? Are you upset with the majority leader? Run, Maga Mike, run. You see MAGA Mike, they're panicking and running through the halls of the Capitol building. Yesterday, after he was caught off guard when the MAGA Republicans in the Senate refused to object to the unanimous consent to release the Epstein files, that that was put on the floor in the Senate. So we know that earlier in the day, the House passed the resolution to release the Epstein files via vote of 427 to 1. The one MAGA Republican who voted against releasing the files was MAGA Republican Clay Higgins. It then went to the Senate. MAGA Mike thought that he was having a productive conversation with the Republican Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, and that they were gonna add amendments to basically derail and the release of the Epstein files in the Senate. And MAGA Mike was telling Donald Trump through a back channel that this isn't going to pass in the Senate. Don't worry. And then the Democrats outmaneuvered the Republicans. Democratic leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, goes on the Senate floor. He requests unanimous consent to release the Epstein files. Not a single Republican objects to it. Because which Republican wants to be the guy or the gal who objects to the release of the Epstein files? And therefore the Epstein files resolution in the Senate was deemed to have passed and the Senate therefore voted to release the files. So now it's passed in both the House and the Senate. What's supposed to take place next? Is MAGA Mike supposed to transmit the resolution from the House to the Senate, which has already passed it, and then it will immediately go on Donald Trump's desk. And we can call Donald Trump's bluff to see if he's actually going to sign this thing or how he and MAGA Mike are planning on derailing it. But MAGA Mike thought that he had this thing rigged and wired and that the Republicans in the Senate were gonna have his back, and they didn't. That's why MAGA Mike is panicking right there. I'll just show you what MAGA Mike was saying at a press conference that he held earlier in the day where he Said, look, the Senate has all of these issues, and the Senate's going to be objecting to these things. And I think the only reason I'm voting yes is because I've heard in the Senate that we're gonna add some amendments to this because Mag and Mike thought that that would derail the release of the Epstein file resolution. Watch what MAGA Mike said during a press conference earlier in the day.
Political Analyst/Guest
I'll tell you, there's a handful of Republicans, Judiciary Committee members, and a few others who are really struggling, as I have been, about whether or not they could even vote yes today because of this, because we don't have an absolute guarantee that this will be fixed in the Senate. I have a high degree of confidence in that. And that's why, you know, that's why I'll be voting yes today.
Host/Commentator
So now what MAGA Mike's fallback is, is that MAGA Mike and Donald Trump plan to invoke national security in order to avoid releasing the Epstein files. We'll see ultimately, if. If Donald Trump vetoes the Epstein resolution on that basis. But it doesn't. You heard the reporter ask MAGA Mike, is Trump gonna veto it? And I can't talk about it. I'm not gonna talk about it. But you see, they didn't rule it out. But what they're prepping for right now is a resol. Is a way to invoke national security in order to block the release of the Epstein files. Now, MAGA Mike, when he was speaking on the floor yesterday, before the resolution to release the Epstein files was voted on, he mentioned the term classified information. National security concerns. Remember what he said yesterday?
Political Analyst/Guest
Here, play this clip number five, national security concerns. Okay. The discharge requires the Attorney General to release within 30 days, quote, classified information to the maximum extent possible. This ignores the principal that declassification should always rest and always has rested with the agency that originated the intelligence. Why? So that they can protect their critical sources and methods. It is incredibly dangerous to demand that officials or employees of the DOJ declassify materials that originated in other agencies and intelligence agencies.
Host/Commentator
Now, take that. And also look what MAGA Republican James Comer, who leads the House Oversight Committee, what he said to Laura Ingraham Adair so ago where he said, basically, we already have pretty much everything, 65,000 files. And he said, they, being the Trump regime, released all they could release, all they could release. In essence saying, we have everything that they were legally obligated to turn over. Here, play this clip.
Ken Klippenstein
So why not just release the files? I Mean, if there's nothing in there, who cares?
Host/Commentator
Why not for transparency sake?
Ken Klippenstein
And the administration, obviously players, the administration said they were going to be released, and then some were released, but not all of them. The President said, go ahead and release them.
Host/Commentator
So just get it out there and.
Ken Klippenstein
Have it done with.
Host/Commentator
Well, that's what I've encouraged the White House to do, and they're working with us. They. They've released what they can legally release. Now, you heard what he said there. They released what they legally were required to release. And this also coincides with Donald Trump's social media post where he said, as I said on Friday, they could release the files and the House Oversight Committee can have whatever they are legally entitled to. Okay, These words are not just happenstance. They are being picked specifically. Now, the piece of paper that MAGA Mike was holding was a document labeled the flaws of HR4405 could re victimize Epstein victims, create new victims, and damage the judicial system. By the way, when they talk about creating new victims, what Mag and Mike is suggesting, as disgusting as it sounds, is that the rich and powerful men who are in these files, they would now become the victims. And so he says, we need to protect them. I know it's sick, but that's what he means. But you go through this document, you go to subsection 6 and it says, National Security Concerns. HR 4405 requires the Attorney General to complete the release of information within 30 days, including to declass classified information to the maximum extent possible. This raises two concerns. First, it may not be feasible to properly undertake such an extensive review in such a short period of time. Second, it ignores the principle that declassification should rest with the agency that originated the intelligence so as to protect sources and methods. It is incredibly unwise to demand that DOJ declassify materials originated by other agencies. HR4405 should be amended to direct relevant intelligence agencies to. To work with the Attorney General to declassify in a reasonable timeframe. That brings me to Ken Klippenstein's article from yesterday. Epstein Bill passes. As top officials circulate plan to block transparency, an official document warns of national security concerns. I want to bring in Ken Klippenstein, who authored this incredible piece on substack. Ken, it's great to see you again. We're all trying to figure out what steps Donald Trump and MAGA Mike have up their sleeve next to block the release. Even if they pretend now they're supporting it because they know they were going to lose the vote, it seems where they're going, national security, and then they may raise other objections, but that they're going to say national security issues. Talk to us about your piece, Ken.
Ken Klippenstein
Yeah, so it seems clear that the Trump administration is going to exploit people's concerns about national security generally, of which the president has all kinds of authorities and privileges. He's going to invoke those powers to prevent as much of the Epstein files from being released as possible. And that's clear from not just Mike Johnson, Speaker Johnson's comments that you played earlier, but also a document that, as was described to me, is being circulated on the Hill as sort of talking points that they wanted to try to stress. It sounds like a lot of the Republicans didn't listen to it. I think they're under so much pressure, not just from their base, but the general American public. There's polling suggesting 90% of Americans think that all of the Epstein files should be released, not just certain ones, all of them. So they're under enormous pressure. And because of that, I think we saw pretty much one guy echo the concerns laid out in that document, which listed what it described as five different, they called it flaws with the legislation that ironically ended up passing with Speaker Johnson's vote. So for whatever reason, he was able to get over those flaws. But number five on that is exactly what you were saying just now, national security concerns. And the argument they make is that by publishing these things, who knows what's going to impede American interests? He mentioned sources and methods. That's a reference to the human sources, spies that the intelligence community relies on for its information methods, things like NSA wiretaps, signals intelligence. But when you look at what The Justice Department, FBI have pulled together in relation to Jeffrey Epstein, 300 gigabytes of information, according to their own press release several months ago. To say that that is going to constitute anything close to a majority of that information is absurd. I mean, maybe there's a little bit of that, but there's no way that's most of the information they've pulled together, you know, surveillance of Epstein and whoever his associates might have been. And it's like all this hand wringing about something for which there's clearly overwhelming public interest. And this is coming from administration where. Do you see hand wringing when they want to slash the federal budget with doge? Do you see hand wringing when they want to deploy federal troops to American cities whose governors don't want them? Do you see hand wringing when they want to blow up ships in the Caribbean? No, you don't see any of this legal hand wringing, and suddenly they're like attorneys worrying about all these potentialities.
Advertiser/Promoter
We've all been there. You get blood work done, wait a week, and the doctor says everything looks fine. Maybe they tell you to drink more water or get some exercise. But there's no breakdown of your hormones. No insights into inflammation, toxins, or nutrient deficiencies. Just vague advice and a quick send off. Superpower is a completely different experience. It's a new kind of preventive care. More comprehensive, more personalized. And you can do it all from home. Here's how it works. One blood draw, 60 labs, and a complete look into what's going on inside your body. They test over 100 biomarkers, covering everything from heart, liver and thyroid function to hormones, metabolisms, vitamins, and minerals. So it scans for thousands of different diseases, helps you close in on that brain fog or low energy you may be experiencing. And I think it's just valuable in general to know what's happening inside your own body. You also get a personalized action plan based on results all laid out in their app, plus access to your own dedicated medical team to help guide you through what to do next. It's the same level of insights pro athletes get, but now at a price that's actually accessible. Superpower used to cost $499. Now it's just $199 for the full experience. That's a fraction of what others charge $500 1000 do, sometimes more. For less thorough testing. You track your steps, your screen time, your sleep. But what about tracking your own biology? Superpower's mission is simple. To democratize health and make proactive preventive care affordable and accessible for everybody. So if you're ready to stop guessing and start taking control of your health, this is the way to do it. Head to superpower.com to learn more and lock in the special $199 price while it lasts. After you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Please make sure to mention this podcast to support our show. Your biology decoded, Your blueprint activated with Superpower.
Host/Commentator
Yeah, right. It was. Also, I don't want to change topics, but when it came to not paying the SNAP benefits, that's where their lawyers gave a very nuanced analysis as well. They were like, well, actually, we could only give half here because of liquidity issues.
Ken Klippenstein
What are you talking.
Host/Commentator
Just making all. You're the guy who's saying there's $22 trillion invested listed, and now you're saying there's liquidity issues. So a legal analysis says you can't give SNAP benefits. And so, anyway, I don't want to. We'll talk more about the Epstein files now, though it seems like it's a massive game of hot potato. You go back to February, the hot potato was with the doj. Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, Dan Baggino, they did the whole fake Epstein file binders. They had the influencers show up. It seems like decades ago. Right. But that was back in February. The hot potatoes then basically left the doj, FBI, Patel, and they kind of threw it and made it a MAGA Mike and Congress issue. MAGA Mike then tried to throw the hot potato quickly to the Senate. Senator Thune and the MAGA Republicans there were like, we ain't touching this, Schumer, Go do your unanimous consent. We don't want anything to do with this. Just pass this freaking thing. And now it's back with Donald Trump. And basically one of the thesis of your article is that now Trump didn't get the help he was looking for in the House and the Senate. Now it's back at Trump. We'll see what he does. If he signs it or doesn't sign it, I'm sure there will be delay. And, you know, I doubt it'll happen instantaneously, but who knows? But even when he signs it, then the hot potato goes back to the doj, and now they're gonna look for their protectual reasons not to turn it over, and they're gonna say, national security, ongoing investigation, rolling production, victims, renew victims. Those are their arguments. And they'll probably drip, drip, drip, 1,000 documents a month. And then, look, we gave you this, we gave you that. And they're gonna do everything they can to avoid producing those documents that have Trump's name on. That's kind of what I think you suspect is happening.
Ken Klippenstein
Yeah, exactly. Hot potato is a good word for it. This is something that maybe most of the country wants. Like, it's hard to think of something that there's broader support for. I mentioned the 90% support that a CBS YouGov poll found for releasing all of these things. Not just some of them, all of them. But it must be the only, you know, dozen or so guys who don't want to do it all happen to be in the Trump administration because not only have they pulled all these things together, and as was reported at the time, tasked, I think it was a thousand FBI agents with going through all the different field offices and pulling together any relevant information they could, they have it all centralized in one location. There's no more work that needs to be done. Literally all they would need to do is release that redact whatever victim information they would need to. So in a sense, the hard work has already been done. But once they finish that, they released a two page summary of what the documents were. And the Attorney General, Pam Bondi said that, you know, we have all this stuff, but unfortunately none of it is able to be released. And it's kind of like I could see an argument for, you know, not wanting to harm victims, that kind of thing. But to say that that's literally like you couldn't find anything. There's nothing in there. Nothing. In a years long investigation into not just Epstein, but people associated with him. And according to that justice department release, 1,000 victims affected. This was a big investigation. And the size of that document, the size of those documents that they pulled together, the 300 gigabytes that I mentioned before, that speaks to the size of the investigation. So there's a lot there. And I think it's very hard to believe that any substantial portion of that is going to involve state secrets or even victim information, because it's not like they're just looking at victims. The FBI, as was described to me, they have investigators doing things like electronic surveillance of Epstein's home. They have human intelligence, the form of informants, they have, you know, I mentioned camera. I mean, there's all kinds of ways that they collect intelligence. And to say that like most of that, much less all of it is something that people can't see, it's just absurd. And it's not how they've approached other things. For instance, when I mentioned the boat strikes in the Caribbean, it's like minutes after those that they just blast out camera footage of it. And you're going to tell me that's not sensitive. You know, we're getting that footage from drones. I mean, it's like actual killings that they just post to Twitter. But suddenly, oh no, there's nothing we can release. It just, it seems absurd on its face.
Host/Commentator
Right, no, national security issues when it comes to releasing drone footage of war crimes in action. Yes, national security issues as it relates to Epstein sex trafficking ring Sarca 2000-2019. I mean, it absolutely doesn't make sense. But look, let's just say this before we go. The Trump, the emails from the Epstein estate. If you were to do like those word clouds or those word trees, like what name comes up the most, it would be Trump's. I mean, it was unbelievable. I mean I think Wall Street Journal did the analysis that there was 23,000 emails, about 2,300 email threads, and over 1600 of the threads somehow involved Donald Trump or Trump's name in it in disgusting, grotesque, odd, weird in all sorts of ways. So we know that. So to the extent they produce a subset of documents, again and Trump's name's not on it, it's obviously gonna raise red flags right away. And this is just gonna continue. Right? It's just gonna be like, we know, because how could it be that these emails have Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. He's like the main character. And then all of a sudden the files don't. When we know that, that. When we know that Bondi and Patel told Trump his name's like, all over these things. I'll give you the final word. Yeah.
Ken Klippenstein
I think it's worth stressing just how important the information that this legislation is going after that is the Justice Department, FBI holdings, because those are going to be much more. Provide much more insight into what Epstein was up to than what we've seen. What was released about a week ago was very insightful. And you see people still tweeting out and discussing the emails, but that was pursuant to a subpoena to the Epstein estate. And so that would be what's in possession of Epstein's estate. But when you talk about the FBI, that's all of the intelligence and information that they've been. That they collected over the course of their investigations that I was describing before. So this is a completely different animal. Not just larger, but I think would be more incisive to the intent and activities that Epstein and whoever he knew was engaged with, which, again, 1,000 victims. That's the Justice Department's finding based on all that information. So I think it is very clearly in the public interest that this stuff get released. And again, the polling shows that that's something that an unusual degree of American agree on, which feels unusual these days.
Host/Commentator
Ken Klippenstein. The Ken Klippenstein substack. Thanks so much for joining us.
Ken Klippenstein
Good to be with you again.
Host/Commentator
Everybody hit subscribe here. Let's get to 6 million subscribers.
Advertiser/Promoter
Love this video. Support independent media and unlock exclusive content ad free videos and custom emojis by becoming a paid member of our YouTube channel today. You can also gift memberships to others. Let's keep growing together.
Host/Commentator
And Doug, here we have the Limu.
Ken Klippenstein
Emu in its natural habitat, helping people.
Host/Commentator
Customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.
Ken Klippenstein
Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally Doug.
Narrator/Announcer
Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
Ken Klippenstein
Cut the camera. They see us.
Host/Commentator
Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.
Ken Klippenstein
Savings Ferry underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance.
Host/Commentator
Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts Ordinary Checking Just.
Narrator/Announcer
A place to park your money. Our checking a $300 head start as a member of Oregon State Credit Union, you'll feel the benefits from day one. Open a new checking account, set up direct deposit and we'll add 300 bucks to get you going. Oregon State Credit Union Human to Human Banking insured by NCUA Equal Housing Lender $25 minimum balance required subject to change terms and conditions.
Host/Commentator
The holidays mean more.
Ken Klippenstein
Travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft.
Host/Commentator
But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second.
Ken Klippenstein
If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will find fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply Kay Jewelers.
Narrator/Announcer
Early Black Friday sale is happening now. Get up to 50% off Black Friday deals and up to 40% off everything else. Don't miss this sale. Start your season with savings. Only a K exclusions apply. Ck.com exclusions for details introducing Family Freedom.
Host/Commentator
From T Mobile we'll pay off four phones up to 3, 200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom.
Political Analyst/Guest
Up to 800.
Host/Commentator
Per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement example Apple iPhone 16128 Gig $829.99 Eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact us.
Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas
Featured Guest: Ken Klippenstein (Investigative Journalist)
This episode dissects the drama and infighting within the Republican Party (GOP) over the push to release the long-sought-after Epstein files. The Meiselas brothers, joined by investigative journalist Ken Klippenstein, analyze how “MAGA Mike” (House Speaker Mike Johnson) thought he could block the files’ release, only to be blindsided by the Senate’s maneuvering. The conversation covers government transparency, GOP hypocrisy regarding national security, and the high-stakes political attempt to shield the powerful. The hosts employ their signature humor and banter, while Klippenstein’s in-depth reporting offers detailed insight on the internal GOP panic and what to expect next.
Background:
The House passed a resolution 427–1 to release the Epstein files. Only Clay Higgins, a MAGA Republican, voted against it.
Speaker Mike Johnson (dubbed “MAGA Mike”) expected the Republican Senate to add amendments to block or water down the release.
The Senate, however, shocked him by allowing the resolution to pass with unanimous consent after Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer put it forward—no Republican objected.
This effectively outmaneuvered MAGA Mike and left him “panicking and running through the halls of the Capitol building” ([03:01]).
Quote:
Current Status:
Speaker Mike Johnson’s Pivot:
Realizing defeat, Johnson’s fallback is to invoke national security to prevent release, claiming “classified information” is at risk ([06:58]).
Quote:
The House Oversight Chair James Comer echoed that “they’ve released what they can legally release” ([08:27]), framing release limits as unavoidable.
Hypocrisy Highlighted:
The Hot Potato Game:
Klippenstein describes the saga as a political game of “hot potato”:
Quote:
Inside the Files:
DOJ/FBI compiled over 300GB of evidence; over 1,000 victims were identified ([11:07], [21:10]).
The hosts state that Trump’s name dominates the Epstein estate emails, citing 1,600 threads involving Trump ([19:50]).
There’s public pressure: “90% of Americans think all Epstein files should be released” ([11:07], [17:22]).
Quote:
Expected Government Tactics:
Host, on GOP Senate betrayal:
Mike Johnson at his press conference:
Ken Klippenstein on transparency vs. excuses:
Host on the hypocrisy:
This episode gives a lively, detailed breakdown of a critical political standoff, unpacks how the GOP prioritizes protecting its powerful over the public good, and forecasts the next maneuvers likely to be employed to block the truth. It features accessible, sometimes humorous commentary alongside investigative depth—essential listening for anyone following the Epstein case or the broader issue of government transparency.