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- [00:01]
Advertiser
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- [00:57]
Dave
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- [01:42]
Ben Meiselas
Mr. President, you're going to be at the inauguration. Some union leaders and even some kind of rank and file workers ended up voting for the other guy. How do you square that? You think you reach a deal in Gaza before your term is as you prepare to leave the White House, any other regrets that you have? Anything you wish you would have done differently? His rhetoric, what he's done, what he's threatened.
- [02:05]
Joseph Biden
That's not America. That's not who the hell we are. We're not going away. I'm not going away.
- [02:11]
Ben Meiselas
I'm Ben Meiselas from the Midas Touch Network reporting from the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House. That's right. We have a very strong special interview for you today with President Joseph Biden. We will talk about his time in the White House. We will talk about his legacy. We will talk about what he intends to do in the future. We will talk about what is NATO, our NATO allies, saying to him. We will address all of that and more on the Midas Touch Network. Mr. President, I want to thank you for this interview today. And we're here in the Roosevelt Room right now in the West Wing of the White House. You have a few more weeks here in the White House. And so, as you look back over the past four years, what do you believe are your biggest accomplishments that you're most proud of?
- [03:02]
Joseph Biden
Well, when I ran, I said I was going to try to do three things. Resource, some integrity of the office, bring back a sense of focus on the needs of ordinary people and try to unite the country. And so that's what I've done. I've tried to do in four years. We've accomplished a lot. I mean, we hadn't trickled down to every single person yet, but we're in a situation where we have the strongest economy in the world by any measure. For example, we made sure that we got ourselves in a situation where we wanted to get results immediately. So I started working on the things I thought were most consequential. How can we lead the world without having the best infrastructure in the world, the best ports, airports, et cetera, roads, highways, transportation, electric connectivity. How can we lead the world if we're not dealing with the single greatest threat to humanity, the emergence of climate change. We go above 1.5 degrees Celsius, we're. We're in real trouble. Our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren are in real trouble. And if we can't move in the direction of seeing to it that we take care of the people who are most in need. For example, the idea that we charge so much for prescription drugs in America. I could take any one of you guys, you have a prescription from any American drug company, put you in Air Force One on fly to any of 10 cities in the world. I get you the same exact drugs from a drugstore, quote, unquote. In those countries, that is 40, 60% less. The only thing, only protected entity was Medicare could not negotiate with drug companies. I also think it was really important that we do something about, you know, 1% of the population is defending, 99% of us. And we weren't taking care of our veterans. We had to. So that's why I work so hard to make sure we're in a situation where we provide for the opportunity for the veterans to be cared for and their families to be cared for. We fundamentally changed that. And we also moved in the direction of making sure that we're in a situation where we provide for opportunities and education and provide for opportunities to deal with the things that ordinary people have a shot of being able to do. And I guess maybe one of the big things we've done, we've attracted trillion dollars off the sidelines to be invested in America buy an American. And so for example, we have, we invented that little computer chip. We made it more sophisticated. Well, when we found out, because we found out that corporations were exporting manufacture those the cheapest labor around the world. But then guess what? When Covid hit and those outfits shut down because of illness in the Far east, well guess what? We found out we needed 300 to build an automobile. We found out so on and so forth. We were in real trouble. So I decided to change that and make sure we were, we were part of the supply chain. We were the beginning of this project. And all that has resulted in real significant economic growth that hasn't yet gone to all the people because it takes time to get it up and running. But those are the things I focused on first.
- [06:27]
Ben Meiselas
And look, you mentioned all of these accomplishments that you just listed and you focused on bottom up, middle out economics to help workers. Infrastructure Act, Inflation Reduction act created over 16 million jobs more than any president. But here's the thing though, and I really want to get your insight on some union leaders and even some kind of rank and file workers ended up voting for the other guy with all of the benefits you delivered. How do you square that?
- [06:59]
Joseph Biden
Well, not many did by the way. Number one. Number two, I think that it's hard to translate. I think the one thing that I should have spent more time talking about is these things are going to take time to be put in place. For example, when we decide that we're going to build a computer chip factory outside of Columbus, we're going to invest billions of dollars in construction of that facility. All the jobs are going to be created by the construction needed to do it. And then there's what they call fabs, these great big things twice the size of football fields where people are going to be making these computer chips. And guess what? The average salary is going to be $102,000 and you don't need a college degree. It's going to fundamentally change the community. But the problem is it's going to take time to get them up and going the same way with almost all the stuff we've done. And so I think the failure to connect between what was happening to the economy as a whole and what's going to happen to the middle class Americans as a consequence? What we've done is going to take a little bit of time.
- [08:07]
Ben Meiselas
What are you going to do when the other guy those out there bragging about accomplishments under you, the Medicare $2,000 cap, it's going to kick in in 2025 and he's going to be out there saying, I did this. How's that going to make you feel when that happens?
- [08:25]
Joseph Biden
Look, if it continues to benefit the American look, I've invested more in red states than in blue states. All these programs we just talked about, the reason for that was the red states didn't operate very well and they really hurt their constituents. So those factories closed and the like. Fact is that I represent all of America, not just Democrats. And I think what it's going to do is going to bring the country more together than separate it. And for example, you already have folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene and others saying don't eliminate the factory after talking about the proposal that we're going to build. That is the worst idea anybody's ever had. She didn't vote for it. So I think there's going to be a bit of a comeuppance here. But the bottom line is I'm convinced that over time the American public will respond to what is the intention of the party to try to help ordinary people. And the fundamental change I made and I made a speech at Brookings Institution about it recently was on the economy. The fact is that we had a long time this idea of trickle down economics let the wealthy do very, very well. They'll have so much money it'll trickle down on people's kitchen tables and coffee tables and the like and everyone will benefit. I've never bought that theory. And so what I decided to do was to change it to build the economy from the middle out and the bottom up. Wealthies still do very well, but the middle class and working class people do much, much better. And that's exactly what's happening. And so I think the long term prospects for the country are very good.
- [10:07]
Ben Meiselas
Let's talk about foreign policy. Our NATO allies, what are they saying to you right now? You know, Trump's out there threatening allies. Mexico is threatening Canada with tariffs. Obviously NATO countries very concerned right now. Are we going to stand up to Putin in 2025 the way you did? What are they saying to you and what's your answer?
- [10:30]
Joseph Biden
Well, look, I for your audience, there's these various organizations like the G7, the leaders of seven European nations and the like. G20, all these. And I've attended all this. The only advantage being the old guy in the presidency. I have more experience in this than anybody else does, and I've known all these folks. And one of the things that we've done was they've said to me at any of these meetings, come on, you can't walk away from us. Our democracy depends on it. Well, they're concerned and they're concerned whether Trump's going to do some of the foolhardy stuff he says he wants to do. These extreme tariffs which are going to cost America, taxing the middle American taxpayer, dealing with, not supporting Ukraine by letting Russia have its way, moving in a direction where we walk away from. Look, I was able to expand NATO, expand it, not just maintain it, but bring it back and expand it. You know, Henry kissinger called me 10 days before he passed away to say, joe, not since Napoleon has Europe not looked over its shoulder at Russia with dread until now. Well, we were able, I was able to convince two countries, Sweden and a country with an 800 mile border along the Russian border to join NATO. And so it's a stronger organization, but we've got to demonstrate that we're prepared to continue to do our part. And I think that the vast majority of the members of the Congress, even among Republicans, think that. So I doubt whether the President's going to be able to walk away from those commitments.
- [12:14]
Ben Meiselas
You're going to be at the inauguration.
- [12:16]
Joseph Biden
Of course I am only president ever to avoid an inauguration with the guy that's about to be inaugurated.
- [12:21]
Ben Meiselas
That's what I want to talk about. Because he obviously did not make the transition easy for you. Would be putting it as delicately as I can. You've made the transition smooth. You've invited him to the White House. How do you square that with his rhetoric? What he's done, what he's threatened to invite him here, sit him in the Oval, smile. How do you do that and why?
- [12:47]
Joseph Biden
Well, because it's who we are as a nation. It's how we're supposed to be. The fact that he doesn't abide by the rules of the democracy we've established is not my concern. My job is to make a transition workable and available and make sure he's beginning to adjust to it. He's beginning to now say to do background checks for his people and so on and so forth. The bottom line is that we can't keep this up. We can't keep up this childish game of walking away when you don't agree not Cooperating, depending who you talk to, and I talk to a lot of Republicans, somewhere between, Most people say 30%. The Republican Party is the MAGA Republicans now, and they are the Republican Party now. It's going to be interesting to watch what happens to the Republican Party if he tries to implement some of the things he said he was going to do. But it's important. The Democratic institutions are consequential. We're the most unique nation in the world, every other nation's, as a consequence of ethnicity, religion, geography. We're the only one built on an idea. The idea is that we're all, we hold these truths to be self evident, all men and women are created equal, et cetera. We've never fully lived up to it, we've never walked away from it. And we have to keep in faith with that notion, even if the guy that's about to take office has a different view.
- [14:17]
Ben Meiselas
Let's talk about the media coverage of your presidency. We talked about all of these accomplishments, but very rarely did you turn on the TV and hear about 16 million jobs. Very rarely did you hear about the Biden stock market, up 50% from Trump. You weren't out there bragging about your stock market. I mean, the other guy would be doing that every day. Yours was up 50%, 55%. So what's your overall view of, I think the media coverage. Do you think there's anything you could have done differently in interacting with them? What's your overall perspective on that? Were they too busy covering the horse race of politics?
- [14:58]
Joseph Biden
Well, I think it's. You and your crew here would know much better than I would. But I think the media's changed drastically. Not bad or good, just changed in a fundamental way when you read that only, what is it, something like 17, 6, 7% of people under the age of 25 read a newspaper for get their news, so on and so forth. It's. Technology is changing everything. And I think, I think your guys are extremely successful because you speak to what is a truth. You say, this is what I think the facts are. You lay it out, you speak to it. But it's hard to. There are very few editors anymore, very few editors saying, you can't write that. Or you have billionaires buying standard newspapers that are well known and saying, we're not going to do that anymore, we're not, because I don't want to do it. So I think it's going to take a while for this to sort out.
- [16:04]
Ben Meiselas
What are you working on right now that you hope to accomplish before the end of your term. Is there one thing that you're hoping to get done?
- [16:12]
Joseph Biden
Well, there's a couple things I want to get done. And for example, we're in a situation right now where we should be providing for the funding to make a transition to deal with some of the issues that relate to women's issues, for example, women's health, dealing with issues related to whether or not we're going to, we should be passing era. There's a consensus for it, we should be dealing. There's a lot of things we should be doing, but we just got to keep talking about them. I don't know that they'll get done before I leave, but I got a lot done in terms of dealing with issues relating to the urgent needs of the moment. For example, the idea that all those folks who were sent to jail for drug charges that have subsequently been fundamentally changed and lower, why should they still be in jail for the same charge? So there's a whole lot of things we're changing in the near term that will provide for greater equity and fairness. I want to, I want people to look at my government, say my government's fair, my government's being fair, they're being decent, they're working in a way that benefits everybody. And, and so there's a lot of things we, and look, I'm not going away, I'm not no longer going to be president. I'm going to be deeply involved in matters. For example, you know, we, when I got elected, we weren't even part of the deal trying to deal with international concern about the environment. So we rejoined the, again the group that said of the world. We were one of the few major nations out of that group that said that if you let, if you let the temperature go above 1.5 degrees Celsius, it's over. It's over. It's the only existential threat to humanity. Well, I'm going to be continuing to work very hard on environmental issues. And even the main, for example, when I was running for, when I was deciding to run for president, I hadn't formally announced my plan on the environment because I wanted to sit down even though everybody had a long record on the environment, I wanted to sit down with union guys. When I think environment, I think jobs, I don't think restrictions on jobs, it's jobs creating thousands of good paying jobs dealing with environmental concerns. And so once the IBEW notice came along and said, oh okay, we're changing our view because remember, four years, five years ago, six years ago, unions thought Environment that's cost us jobs. The exact opposite is happening. So what we try to do is focus on the things that are going to have a longest term impact on the security and stability of my country. My children, my grandchildren, and not mine, all children, grandchildren. And I think we're doing that and it's starting to take hold.
- [19:13]
Ben Meiselas
Let me ask you this. As you prepare to leave the White House, any other regrets that you have, anything you wish you would have done differently?
- [19:23]
Joseph Biden
Well, I guess if I thought a lot about it, it would be something I specifically done, but not generically. I set out to do two things, restore America's leadership in the world. I think we've done that. And two, to generate opportunity for ordinary people to have a shot in the economy. And I think we've done that as well. And so we've changed the sort of measure for how to build an economy from the middle out and the bottom up rather than top down. And we've worked in a situation where we've, we've once again reestablished our leadership in the world. I always ask people rhetorical questions. If America is not leading the world, who's going to lead it? Who, what country has a capacity? And so we have an obligation and an opportunity to make a world better for everybody. But without being. And by the way, look what we've done. We've changed the dynamic in Europe. We're in the process. God will. And if my effort goes through with what's going on in Gaza and the Middle east, we may have an agreement there. Look what's happening in the Pacific and particularly in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. Well, guess what? We have a group now. Asia, excuse me, and India, Japan, Australia, United States Accord that is bringing stability to that region of the world.
- [20:53]
Ben Meiselas
You think you reach a deal in Gaza before your term ends?
- [20:56]
Joseph Biden
I hope so. I think so, but you never know.
- [20:59]
Ben Meiselas
What do you say to Americans who are understandably very nervous right now, who didn't vote for the other guy, who are fearful of the threats, the rhetoric, the idea of retribution? What do you say to them who are looking at you, who admired your work and, and what do you say to them right now who are watching?
- [21:19]
Joseph Biden
We gotta stay involved, gotta keep fighting, gotta make clear we're not going away. We're not going away. I'm not going away. I'm gonna be deeply involved in the environment, deeply involved in foreign policy, deeply involved in all the things I've been involved in before. There's a whole lot of people too that are doing that And I don't. I know I'm not. This is not appropriate for me to be asking you questions. But think about what you guys, what decisions you have to make to be the kind of you get, the kind of listenership and followership you have. And how do other entities do that and tell the truth like you do? It's about finding ways to communicate with people that are, that are so different than existed even 10 years ago. And it's a moment of transition. I know I drive my friends crazy. I keep talking, talk about major inflection points in American history, in world history, but every six or seven, every six or seven decades, something changes of consequence that generates a significant shift in the way people look at things. Look just what global warming has done. I had, early on, I met with Putin when I first got elected, and he talked about global warming wasn't a problem. I said, it's not. You're in. You know, Russia is in eight time zones around the Arctic Circle. Guess what? It's melting. Methane is coming out of the ground. What are you going to do about that? Well, not sure what to do. That's why we have to work with countries. Even though we have different views on many fundamental things, we can disagree with them, but we can still work on the things that affect all humanity, like global warming.
- [23:02]
Ben Meiselas
You've said before that Project 2025 would cause major economic harm. It's in contrast to your bottom up, middle out. How dangerous do you think Project 2025 is?
- [23:15]
Joseph Biden
And it's devastating. I think if Project 2025 came along and you, you know how many thousands of government employees they want to cut, how many changes they want to make in terms of what we can do and not do. I mean, it's an extreme policy written by extreme group, and I don't think it can take hold.
- [23:38]
Ben Meiselas
So you were the youngest senator, now the oldest president. I didn't say it.
- [23:45]
Joseph Biden
You're very nice to say I didn't say it.
- [23:47]
Ben Meiselas
What's that been like, having those two perspectives?
- [23:51]
Joseph Biden
Well, you know. Well, it's been interesting. When I first got elected, I was 29 years old. You have to be 30 to be sworn in. I got elected when I was 29, didn't turn 30 until 17 days later. And it was, it took took time. I used to be stopped going to the Senate elevator with a vote. No, no. I said no, no. I'm a senator too. But what's happened is it's given me an enormous amount of experience in that, you know, ultimately all politics is personal. It's about building personal relationships. Tell you a real quick story during when I was vice president and things were really starting to fall apart in terms of the way parties are talking to one another. I realized there were a lot of senators that I didn't know. I was I think a people most people say I was a fairly successful senator and bipartisan efforts we put together. So I went over to the Senate dining room, not the one where I could take you as a senator and to have sit down and have lunch with you. But we're just senators ate with one another. It's right across from the Senate diamond. There's that elevator in the first floor. It's on the left side. You walk in, there's a big buffet table, a big seat. A table A seats 18, 20 people and one and then there's a perpendicular to that, there's one in the back. Democrats and Republicans sit at different tables. Well, I was concerned. I was convinced by Teddy Kennedy to go over there and go go to lunch on a regular basis. You sit there and you learn that the man or woman you're talking to just had a big fight in the floor with has a daughter or son who's dying or a wife has breast cancer or he or she has a serious loss. It's hard to dislike someone when you know their problems. You can disagree like hell, but you still work together and we've lost that. There is very little communication between Democrats and Republicans who hold office before and it's hard to get things done that way. I remember I went over as I said, I was a vice president. I decided and I was known for having good relationships in the Senate. So I show up for lunch. There's no dining room there anymore, just easy chairs, no place. A group of Democrats and Republican senators on a regular basis. We just sit down, talk, get things done. So we have to. Things become too distant in my view and I think it's going to start changing.
- [26:29]
Ben Meiselas
Is that one of the things you're going to be working on after you leave here to try to fix that and you mentioned some of your plans after you leave.
- [26:36]
Joseph Biden
Well, I've been talking with a lot of Republicans who either no longer hold office like I will not but still are deeply engaged and those who are in office. And I think there's ways we can begin to accommodate the changes have to take place that are don't have to be so doesn't be so visceral, doesn't have to be so personal. I mean in terms of going after each other. It's about what is it that the American people most want? They want to be able to turn, look, they want to be able to turn on the television and hear some good news. They want to, I mean, but does that sell anymore? I've talked to a number of your colleagues who are with the major networks over the years, last six, seven years, and they talk about how they, it's hard, it's hard for them to be able to communicate with one another. And they're worried about what they say. Will one party go after them or not? Will there be retribution? Look at all the threats, look at all the threats that are being made about getting back at people who got, who crossed, who didn't support Trump or didn't support. I mean, I won't go into the name, but all the people he's, I mean, what's going on here? That's not America. That's not who the hell we are. And I think that it's, I'm just going to continue to fight against it.
- [28:07]
Ben Meiselas
Any kind of formal organization that you're thinking about starting, is this with these Republicans that you're talking about? Is there going to be some sort of group that's going to be working towards those goals, Democrats, Republicans, to try to.
- [28:19]
Joseph Biden
Well, there's some working on specific issues together on, but I think it's more about making, continuing to make the public case that you should be able to say what you believe without worrying about retribution because you didn't support a particular candidate in your party. And look, you know that old joke, I don't belong to any organized party. I'm a Democrat. But all kidding aside, that's the truth of the matter is I think that there's a lot of cohesion among the Democrats now. And I think we're going to, I think you're going to see some things change in terms of getting things done that we need to get done. How can you lead the world without the best education system in the world instead of doing away the Department of Education? How in the hell can you lead the world without having the strongest environmental protections in the world? How can you lead the world if you don't have the best infrastructure? And if we don't lead the world, who does? Who does? The rest of the world's looking to us. They're looking to us.
- [29:24]
Ben Meiselas
Final question. When history is all told, how do you want to be remembered? What do you want your legacy to be?
- [29:36]
Joseph Biden
I kept my word that when I said I was going to do something, I did, and that my focus has always been about how to give ordinary people a shot. You've probably heard me say it before. My dad used to say, joey, a job's about a lot more than a paycheck. It's about your dignity. It's about respect. It's about being able to look your kid in the eye and say, I'm going to be okay, and mean it. It's about being able to be yourself and focus on people who need some help. And the vast majority of the American people, all they want is a chance, just a chance, and they'll do fine.
- [30:18]
Ben Meiselas
You see hope?
- [30:19]
Joseph Biden
I do. I am hopeful. But, you know, I. When I was. When I was. Years ago, when I was a senator, I had asked to be vice president. Cranial aneurysm. And I remember being wheeled down in the operating room with the nine hour operation. And they said the issue was whether aneurysms were congenital or environmental. And I said, doc, I don't care, just fix it. And after it was all over, my neurosurgeon said, you know, your problem is. Senator. I was a senator, that your problem is you're a congenital optimist. I have enormous faith, enormous faith in the American people to end up being in the right place. I really, really do. We just gotta keep fighting.
- [31:06]
Ben Meiselas
Mr. President, thank you so much for this interview. Thank you for what you've given this country over the past four years. And I really appreciate it.
- [31:16]
Joseph Biden
Thanks, pal. Appreciate it. Thank you. It's been so long.
- [31:24]
Dave
How have you been? Hello. I'm doing well, Dave. Why are you talking that way? Please say one for a compliment or two for a question. Yeah, this is weird. I think I'm gonna go.
- [31:35]
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