Senator Tammy Baldwin on Trump Cabinet Disaster Hearings

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast Summary
Episode: Senator Tammy Baldwin on Trump Cabinet Disaster Hearings
Release Date: May 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, hosted by Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas, the brothers delve into the intense hearings involving Senator Tammy Baldwin and members of the Trump Cabinet. The episode provides a thorough analysis of Senator Baldwin’s cross-examination of RFK Jr., highlighting critical issues surrounding federal funding for biomedical research, disaster response efficiency, and the ongoing debate over budget reconciliation and Medicaid cuts.

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1. Senator Tammy Baldwin’s Cross-Examination of RFK Jr.

The episode opens with a detailed account of Senator Baldwin’s confrontation with RFK Jr., the head of the Department of Health and Human Services under the Trump administration. Baldwin aggressively questions RFK Jr. on the drastic reductions in funding for the National Institutes of Health (NIH), aiming to uncover the administration’s rationale behind the cuts.

Key Topics Discussed:

• NIH Funding Cuts:
  Baldwin highlights significant budget reductions, emphasizing that the NIH is experiencing a “$3 billion less in medical biomedical research than you did a year prior” ([03:32]). She points out that “They’re cutting waste, they’re cutting duplicative programs” but critiques the overall effectiveness, stating, “We spend 70% of the world’s biomedical research out of NIH. 70% and we’re the sickest country in the world” ([04:14]).

• Impact on Research and Development:
  Baldwin underscores the consequences of reduced funding, noting, “$14 billion, or 40% from the NIH budget slowed the development of new treatments” ([04:28]). She raises concerns about the administration's priorities, questioning whether cuts are being made for efficiency or convenience, with grants not being awarded because “the panels weren't convenient” ([04:31]).

• Administrative Efficiency:
  The senator critiques the administration's management, stating, “Agency growth in our agency over the past four years” ([04:28]), indicating concerns over increased bureaucracy and inefficiency within the NIH.

Notable Quote:

“We are the sickest country in the world. So that money has not been well spent.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([04:14])

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2. FEMA and Disaster Response Efficiency

The conversation shifts to FEMA’s role in disaster response, particularly focusing on the administration’s handling of recent disasters in Missouri.

Key Topics Discussed:

• FEMA’s Responsiveness:
  Baldwin discusses Senator Josh Hawley’s urgent plea for FEMA assistance in Missouri, highlighting the administration’s slow response to disaster declarations. She emphasizes the importance of timely FEMA intervention, especially for residents without homeowners insurance: “They either got their homes from a family member or they bought them from a family member. So they don't have a mortgage on the property and therefore they don't have homeowners insurance” ([11:08]).

• Critique of Leadership:
  Baldwin criticizes the Trump administration for its mishandling of FEMA, pointing out the firing of the FEMA administrator for supporting FEMA’s continued existence: “They fired him in 24 hours.” ([11:22]).

• Health and Safety Concerns:
  She raises alarm over the elimination of critical functions within the CDC, specifically the lead poisoning mitigation office, which has led to a severe lead crisis in Milwaukee schools: “We have children within those schools that have lead poisoning” ([11:38]).

Notable Quote:

“In Milwaukee, we have a crisis right now. We have six schools that had tested presence for lead. We have children within those schools that have lead poisoning.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([11:08])

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3. Budget Reconciliation and Medicaid Cuts

The discussion transitions to the contentious topic of budget reconciliation and the potential impact on Medicaid and other social programs.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Republican Opposition:
  Baldwin addresses the Republican senators' resistance to budget reconciliation, highlighting statements from Ron Johnson and Josh Hawley who express skepticism about the process and the allocation of funds: “My objection is still raising the debt ceiling by either 4 or 5 trillion dollars. I think what that does is basically show that conservatives and Republicans aren’t concerned with the deficit.” ([14:05]).

• Medicaid Expansion Concerns:
  She vocalizes her concerns regarding Medicaid cuts, particularly in states where Medicaid has been expanded, like Wisconsin: “It is wrong to cut health care for the working poor.” ([14:09]).

• House Budget Reconciliation Dynamics:
  Baldwin explains the strategic use of budget reconciliation to bypass the typical 60-vote requirement in the Senate: “This is the reason they use budget reconciliation, is to get around the typical 60 vote margin that’s required.” ([14:24]).

• Call for Bipartisan Support:
  She emphasizes the need for Republican support to prevent the passage of policies that would harm Medicaid and other essential services: “I will welcome a deficit hawk to join us as much as I will welcome somebody who deeply cares about the impact that Medicaid cuts and snap cuts will have on their constituency.” ([15:50]).

Notable Quote:

“This is not FOX News. We’re not going to just allow you to make allegations here without that evidence.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([06:11])

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4. Preservation of Federal Agencies and Programs

Senator Baldwin concludes by expressing her concerns over the administration’s attempts to dismantle various federal agencies and programs without congressional authorization.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Preemptive Restructuring of Agencies:
  Baldwin warns that agencies like the EPA, Interior, and Education are being restructured or defunded ahead of budget discussions for the fiscal year 2026: “They are working without congressional authorization.” ([16:07]).

• Potential Legal Implications:
  She raises the possibility that such actions could be deemed impoundment, which is considered illegal: “Sometimes it is probably going to be found to be impoundment, which is illegal.” ([16:07]).

• Long-term Impact on Constituents:
  Baldwin stresses that the dismantling of these programs will have lasting negative effects on her constituents, who depend on federal support: “I worry so much that some of these programs will be so harmed, so dismantled, that by the time we set the budget for 2026, it'll be too late.” ([16:07]).

Notable Quote:

“We are the world’s leader in biomedical research, but that all the work in building that up has come to sort of a screeching halt in just the first 100 days of the Trump administration.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([07:36])

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5. Closing Remarks

In the closing segment, the hosts reiterate the significance of Senator Baldwin’s testimony and the broader implications of the Trump administration’s policies on federal funding and public services. They encourage listeners to stay informed and engaged with the political developments discussed in the episode.

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Conclusion

This episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast offers a deep dive into Senator Tammy Baldwin’s rigorous examination of the Trump administration's handling of critical federal programs. Through Baldwin’s incisive questions and the hosts' insightful commentary, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges facing biomedical research funding, disaster response efficiency, and the contentious battle over budget reconciliation and Medicaid. The discussion underscores the importance of legislative oversight and the potential ramifications of administrative actions on public health and welfare.

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Notable Quotes:

• On NIH Funding Mismanagement:
  “We spend 70% of the world’s biomedical research out of NIH. 70% and we’re the sickest country in the world.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([04:14])

• On FEMA's Role in Disaster Response:
  “They don’t have homeowners insurance. So, having been a governor, in many instances, FEMA assistance is going to be the only assistance that they’re getting.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([11:08])

• On Budget Reconciliation Politics:
  “Sometimes smart politics makes strange bedfellows. On this particular vote, I will welcome a deficit hawk to join us as much as I will welcome somebody who deeply cares about the impact that Medicaid cuts and snap cuts will have on their constituency.” – Senator Tammy Baldwin ([15:50])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing listeners with a clear and detailed overview of Senator Tammy Baldwin’s pivotal role in addressing government funding and policy challenges.

Transcript

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[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Is it DOGE reviewing NIH funding Opportunity announcements? Is it DOGE reviewing NIH grant award?

[Host]

We've got administrators.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

We're cutting waste, we're cutting duplicative programs. And you're funding $3 billion less in medical biomedical research than you did a year prior. We're spending less on administration of those programs, 3,200 fewer grants. Many of the grants were terminated because they were grants that were not advanced. These aren't grants terminated. These are grants not awarded because the panels weren't convenient. We spend 70% of the world's biomedical research out of NIH. 70% and we're the sickest country in the world. $14 billion, or 40% from the NIH budget slowed the development of new treatments and we are the sickest country in the world. So that money has not been well spent. We've had a 38% increase in our.

[Host]

Agency growth in our agency over the past four years.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

I'll ask you is is funding for Alzheimer's disease research centers DEI, because you're holding up $65 million for 14 of those centers in nine states, including the University of Wisconsin Madison Is funding for cancer centers DEI because you're holding up $47 million in cancer center support grants at nine cancer centers in eight states. Is funding for rare disease research DEI because you're holding up 55 million dollars for 11 rare disease clinical research network grants in eight states these are just a few examples. And the list goes on and on. Secretary Kennedy, I've, I've run out of time. I yield back. Thank you.

[Host]

This is a fun game we're playing, Mr. Secretary. This is a fun game that we are playing. I also want to show Democratic Congresswoman Barragan, she was asking Lee Zeldin, who leads the Environmental Protection Agency. I'm not sure if leads the appropriate word, but she said, look, you're out there on FOX saying that there is criminality taking place that you've uncovered, but there's no criminal charges being filed. Like why are you grandstanding? Like just, just, just tell the truth and level with the American people. Let's play this clip.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

You just mentioned two examples.

[Host]

Have you or EPA lawyers actually given that to the core or used that as side of that as fraud or criminality? Well, first off, the, the standard, it's a yes or no. Have you, your lawyer. Yes, they have mentioned this. Which hearing was it at? Because I don't see it in the.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Transcript.

[Host]

That happened in the United Climate conversation. As a matter of fact, I'm going to read to you the court transcript. Can you proffer any evidence that there was illegal or evidence of abuse or fraud, that any of this was improper, unlawful?

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

EPA lawyer?

[Host]

I'm certainly not suggesting any of that.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Was illegal or improper.

[Host]

Okay. Just yesterday an EPA lawyer at the hearing suggested we're not accusing anybody of fraud. Did you understand that the evidence for EPA is not to establish criminality at the agency? Well, you're, you're alleging criminality. You did so in a FOX News interview. You said that's what this reduction fund was in order to, you shouldn't be doing that if you cannot pro offer the evidence. But Congresswoman, this is, this is not FOX News. We're not going to just allow you to just make allegations here without that evidence. Well, if this isn't, if this isn't a media interview, you should allow me to go through the entire list rather than just going through. Well, unfortunately, I only have five minutes and I don't have time for your syllabus fraud, cutting me off to get through the list.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Gentleady's time has expired.

[Host]

Time has expired. Are you kidding me? Let's bring in Senator Tammy Baldwin right now. We showed that cross exam bayou of RFK Jr. At the beginning. Walk us through that line of questioning and really the devastation that you're seeing in your state of Wisconsin and elsewhere.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

So that line of questioning, one of many that I engaged in, really relates to their just slashing funding for National Institutes of Health research. And, you know, he was talking about going after fraud, waste and abuse. But he's absolutely ill informed about what's happened in his own department since the beginning of Trump's term. They have failed to convene the very panels that make the grant awards. They are so far behind that this year they have failed to allocate about $3 billion of money that at this time last year was already out backing up groundbreaking research, looking for cures and treatments for things like diabetes and Alzheimer's and canc. And we have seen, in addition, a budget proposal which is scant on details, but what we do know is that there's an $18 billion proposed cut to NIH, which is about 40% of its budget. We are the world's leader in biomedical research, but that all the work in building that up has come to sort of a screeching halt in just the first 100 days of the Trump administration. This was a budget hearing. This was the Appropriations Committee, the subcommittee that funds hhs, trying to get information from the department. I asked about NIH and their plans there, but there's so many other divisions that without even waiting for us to act on next year's budget, they're already dismantling, firing staff, closing regional offices. And we're really worried that there will be irreparable harm before we even get to fiscal year 2026.

[Host]

I mean, we saw a MAGA, Republican, Senator Josh Hawley, at a separate point with another hearing with Kristi Noem, literally, like, begging her, we need FEMA in our state. You're not sending FEMA here from the people of Missouri. Please just send FEMA here. Because some of the most basic things that we expect federal government to do, whether it's issues like health, nih, whether it's issues like FEMA after horrific storms, which, by the way, Donald Trump has not even mentioned once. 28 people dead, we haven't even heard him mention. Let me just show you Josh Hawley and then get your response. Commit to helping for those three major disaster declaration requests that are pending. Will you help expedite those, Secretary Noem, and get those in front of the president, get those approved? We are, we are desperate for the assistance in Missouri.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Yes, absolutely. Make sure the application gets to the White House as soon as possible.

[Host]

Fantastic. Thank you.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

And can I also have your commitment.

[Host]

That if and when the president approves a major disaster declaration for this storm.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

That just happened on Friday in St.

[Host]

Louis, will you expedite as much as possible FEMA individual assistance for those who qualify for it in the St. Louis area.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Yes.

[Host]

And I want to tell you just how important that is, because as I toured these streets and walked and talked to the residents, what I heard over and over is many of these folks don't have insurance. Yeah. You know, many of these folks, they.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

They either got their homes from a.

[Host]

Family member or they bought them from a family member. So they don't have a mortgage on the property and therefore they don't have homeowners insurance. So, as you know, having been a governor, in many instances, FEMA assistance is.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Going to be the only assistance that they're.

[Host]

And Senator, she previously testified last week that she wants to get rid of fema. And they fired the FEMA administrator who was a MAGA guy, because he said that he thinks that it should still exist. They fired him in 24 hours.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

I saw that. And I, you know, I have an example from our hearing in front with Secretary Kennedy, and that is the elimination, functionally of the lead poisoning mitigation office in the cdc. So in Milwaukee, we have a crisis right now. We have six schools that had tested presence for lead. We have children within those schools that have lead poisoning. There have been the displacement of 1800 school children in the Milwaukee public school system because of this lead crisis. But Secretary Kennedy has fired every expert in that agency within CDC that addresses and helps communities mitigate lead exposure. And while he testified last week when I asked him about this, that he has no intent to shutter this office, he's fired everyone who worked there.

[Host]

Let's talk finally about the reconciliation. We still don't know what the House is going to do. Trump showed up, yelled at people, cursed at people, seemed to push certain people further away from it, although who knows with what the House is going to do. But we've seen a lot of Republican senators basically say whatever they're doing there is dead on arrival here, whether that's true or not. But we saw Ron Johnson from your state. He's been consistently saying, I ain't supporting, you know, this. We've seen Josh Hawley say that. We've seen Rand Paul say that. Let me just show you a clip of some of them who have said that. Just because I'm trying to figure out now where is this going? And aren't we going to be hitting a debt ceiling issue soon anyway? Aren't we going to have government funding running out in September? You know, MAGA Mike Johnson said that this would all be sorted out by Memorial Day, which doesn't seem to Be realistic. But who knows? This is what some of the Republican senators have said. Right, let's play. I don't think. I don't think people who voted for President Trump thought that we would continue spending at President Biden's levels. My objection is still raising the debt ceiling by either 4 or 5 trillion dollars. I think what that does is basically show that conservatives and Republicans aren't concerned with the deficit.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

I've been very wary of cutting Medicaid.

[Host]

It is wrong to cut health care for the working poor. And that's what we're talking about here with Medicaid. My state is a Medicaid expansion state. And you kind of in there have different people saying different reasons why they oppose it. Right. So what do you make of all it?

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Well, certainly you have the Senate Republicans who sound a little bit like the House Freedom Caucus. It's like we're not going to pass this until there are as many cuts as there are increases in spending for tax breaks for the wealthy and big corporations. That's what my counterpart, Ron Johnson was saying in that. Then you have others who have genuine concern for the impact of the drastic cuts in Medicaid and nutrition programs and others that are being proposed in the House budget reconciliation bill. You know, in our House, we need to count votes. This is the reason they use budget reconciliation, is to get around the typical 60 vote margin that's required. So we just need a handful of Republicans to stick with us and reject this horrible assembly of policies. And we'll be counting very carefully. And you know, sometimes they say smart politics makes strange bedfellows. On this particular vote, I will welcome a deficit hawk to join us as much as I will welcome somebody who deeply cares about the impact that Medicaid cuts and snap cuts will have on their constituency.

[Host]

Senator, anything else that you're focused on that you're not being asked about? Whenever I have a senator like you on, I like to ask the question because lots of people in the media, they want to have their narrative and their questions. But you see things that we don't see anything we should be focused on that you think is not getting enough attention.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Well, I hinted at it earlier, but I guess I want to put an exclamation point on it. Right now we're in the early stages of looking at the budget for 2026 fiscal year, but in the meantime, not just in Health and Human Services under Secretary Kennedy's watch, but in epa, in Interior, in so many other agencies, Education, they are dismantling the agencies and certain programs within their purview before we even talk about what funding level they should have. And in fact, it is Congress that makes the laws and sets the budget, but they are working without congressional authorization. Sometimes it is probably going to be found to be impoundment, which is illegal. But in many other ways, they are trying to totally restructure agencies without congressional oversight. And I worry so much that some of these programs will be so harmed, so dismantled, that by the time we set the budget for 2026, it'll be too late. And our constituents are the ones who will bear the brunt of that.

[Host]

Senator Tammy Baldwin, thanks for joining us.

[Senator Tammy Baldwin]

Thank you.

[Host]

All right, everybody, hit subscribe. Let's get to 5 million subscribers. Can't get enough Midas? Check out the Midas substack for ad free articles, reports, podcasts, daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski and more. Sign up for free [e-mail].