Trump FBI Director Comes Unglued Under Cross Exam at Hearing

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode: Trump FBI Director Comes Unglued Under Cross Exam at Hearing
Date: May 13, 2026
Hosts: Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas (MeidasTouch Network)

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Overview

In this episode, the Meiselas brothers dissect the chaotic congressional hearings featuring two top Trump officials: Trump-appointed FBI Director Kash Patel and HUD Secretary Scott Turner. The episode focuses on their controversial testimonies, highlighting moments where both officials appeared unprepared, defensive, or uninformed under cross-examination from congressional Democrats. The brothers use humor and sharp political commentary to underscore the threats to democratic norms presented by these officials, while celebrating tough questioning from Senators and Representatives holding these officials accountable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kash Patel’s Heated Senate Testimony

• Main Focus:
  Intense exchange between FBI Director Kash Patel and Senator Van Hollen over Patel’s alleged misconduct, drinking on the job, and allegations made against him in the press.
• Tone:
  The exchanges are hostile, defensive, and at times borderline unhinged, with Patel launching personal attacks and refusing to give straightforward answers.

Notable Moments and Quotes:

• Appearance and Demeanor:
  The host notes Patel appeared "unkempt" and "really ugly," adding that the whole exchange was "embarrassing for the FBI." (00:42)

• Accusations of Drunkenness and Hypocrisy:

  • Sen. Van Hollen [02:11]: “There have been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you, is that right?”
  • Kash Patel [02:16]: “Nope. It’s a total farce. I don’t even know where you get this stuff. But it doesn’t make it credible because you say so.”
  • Patel then launches into counter-accusations against Van Hollen, referencing made-up incidents of the Senator drinking margaritas on the taxpayer’s dime.

• Challenge to Take Alcohol Abuse Assessment:

  • Sen. Van Hollen [03:55]: “Are you willing to take the test... to determine whether they have a drinking problem?”
  • Kash Patel [04:01]: “Let’s go side by side.”

• Refusal to Answer on Lying to Congress:

  • Sen. Van Hollen [05:48]: “Do you know that it is a crime to lie to Congress?”
  • Kash Patel [05:57]: “I have not lied to Congress.”
  • Sen. Van Hollen [05:58]: “I didn’t ask you that.”
  • Kash Patel [06:00]: “The Congress is you.”
  • Sen. Van Hollen [07:01]: “The director of the FBI apparently does not want to answer the question about whether or not it’s a crime to lie to Congress. And I find that extremely troubling.”

• Paranoia and Polygraph Tests:
  Patel is pressed on whether he ordered polygraph tests at the FBI to find sources for negative stories about himself.

  • Sen. Van Hollen [07:42]: “You ordered polygraph tests of members of your team to determine how that story came about.”
  • Kash Patel [08:01]: (Evasive) “I don’t order any polygraph tests. There’s an internal inspection review process... Those processes are followed by career intelligence and agents on the ground.”
  • Sen. Van Hollen [08:14]: “So I’ll take that as a yes.”

• Olympics Trip Justification:
  Patel defends an Olympics trip, claiming it was for official FBI business, despite public images showing him drinking beer.

  • Kash Patel [08:58]: “We had 250,000 Americans travel to Milan. We’re proud we stood up our jock there and had zero major security incidents... we purposely planned that trip around the Olympics.”

• Firing Iran Counterintelligence Agents:
  Patel avoids directly answering if he fired Iran experts, denying, then obfuscating:

  • Sen. Van Hollen [11:12]: “So you don’t know whether you fired people with counter executive counter espionage experience with respect to Iran?”
  • Kash Patel [11:21]: “I terminated anyone and everyone that weaponized law enforcement.”

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2. Scott Turner’s Floundering House Testimony

• Main Focus:
  Cross-examinations reveal Turner's lack of understanding about his department and evasion on cuts impacting marginalized communities.

Notable Moments and Quotes:

• ‘Extra Rights’ Talking Point:
  Turner claims HUD should protect “equal rights, not extra rights,” but cannot specify which groups supposedly get “extra rights.”

  • Rep. Quigley [13:33]: “What group you’re referring to for extra rights?”
  • Scott Turner [13:46]: (Vague and noncommittal answers; keeps repeating “equal rights, not extra.”)
  • Rep. Quigley [14:28]: “I’m going to take a wild guess that you think LGBTQ people are getting extra rights and privileges, which is why you cut Hopwa... Is this because you think LGBTQ people are getting extra rights?”
  • Scott Turner [15:14]: “Sir, I did not say LGBTQ or getting extra.”

• Ducking Accountability for Grant Cuts:
  Turner is pressed about zeroing out funding for HOPWA (Housing Opportunities for Persons With AIDS) grants.

  • Scott Turner [15:41]: “We’re on a budget... We’re not singling out Hopwa.”
  • Rep. Quigley [15:52]: “You single them out. You just cut them to zero. That’s pretty much the definition of singling them out.”

• Mental Health and ‘Housing First’:

  • Rep. Clyburn [16:06]: “So if you are mentally ill, in need of housing... we’re going to render you homeless?”
  • Scott Turner: Argues for “housing first is a failed model,” but offers no substantive alternative.

• California Disaster Grant Delays:
  Turner fails to provide a timeline for disaster relief for Californians displaced by fires.

  • Rep. Torres [17:18]: “When is the administration going to submit a package, a disaster package for California?”
  • Scott Turner [18:08]: (Evades, blames local leadership.)

• Basic Knowledge Test – Permanent Supportive Housing:
  Turner does not know how many beds are funded by HUD or proposed to be cut, leaving Rep. DeLauro to supply the statistics:

  • Rep. DeLauro [19:26]: “How many beds of permanent supportive housing are funded by this program?”
  • Scott Turner [19:33]: (Avoids; provides no numbers.)
  • Rep. DeLauro [19:36]: “The answer... is roughly 170,000 beds.”
  • Rep. DeLauro [20:14]: “Do you know how many formerly homeless people could lose their housing under this budget proposal?”
  • Scott Turner [20:20]: “What I can say is that we’ll be able to serve more people.”
  • Rep. DeLauro [20:33]: “It’s estimated to be more than 217,000 people, including children...”

• Failure to Identify Fastest Growing Homeless Population:

  • Rep. DeLauro [20:55]: “Tell me about the fastest growing population among people experiencing homeless. This is your job to know.”
  • Scott Turner [21:00]: “I’m here to listen. My job is to make sure that we’re actually serving the people that are homeless.”
  • Rep. DeLauro [21:04]: “Let me just say the answer is 146,000 seniors... as many as 40% of people assisted are older adults.”

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Additional Insights

• The hosts underscore how both Patel and Turner embody the Trump administration’s style: confrontational, unwilling to acknowledge facts, and prone to lashing out instead of answering questions.
• Throughout, the brothers’ commentary is sharp, reinforced by quoting the hearings’ most absurd moments, and highlighting the contrast between serious questioners and flailing witnesses.

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Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kash Patel:

  • “Nope. It’s a total farce. I don’t even know where you get this stuff. But it doesn’t make it credible because you say so.” (02:16)
  • “You are literally saying it.” (02:26)
  • “The only person was slinging margaritas in El Salvador on the taxpayer dollar with a convicted gang banging rapist was you.” (02:29)
  • “Let’s go side by side.” (04:02)
  • “I have not lied to Congress.” (05:57)
  • “I terminated anyone and everyone that weaponized law enforcement.” (11:21)

• Sen. Van Hollen:

  • “I’m not saying it, Director Patel. It’s been written and documented.” (02:21)
  • “Are you willing to take the test... to determine whether they have a drinking problem?” (03:55)
  • “The director of the FBI apparently does not want to answer the question about whether or not it’s a crime to lie to Congress.” (07:01)

• Scott Turner:

  • “Equal rights, not extra.” (13:46)
  • “We want to go after real discrimination and not phantom discrimination.” (13:58)
  • “Housing first is a failed model.” (16:53)
  • “I’m here to listen. My job is to make sure that we’re actually serving the people that are homeless.” (21:00)

• Rep. DeLauro:

  • “How many beds of permanent supportive housing are funded by this program?” (19:26)
  • “The answer... is roughly 170,000 beds...” (19:36)
  • “Tell me about the fastest growing population among people experiencing homeless. This is your job to know.” (20:55)
  • “Let me just say the answer is 146,000 seniors...” (21:04)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Patel vs. Van Hollen Opening Exchange – [02:07-04:06]
• Patel Accusations and False Statements – [04:24-07:20]
• Polygraph Test Questions – [07:42-08:30]
• Olympics Trip Justification – [08:58-09:56]
• Patel Grilled on Firing Iran Experts – [10:02-11:32]
• Turner “Extra Rights” & HOPWA Grant Cuts – [13:33-15:58]
• Housing First Model Debate – [16:06-16:53]
• California Disaster Relief Exchange – [17:18-19:15]
• Turner Fails on Permanent Supportive Housing Stats – [19:26-21:43]

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Conclusion

This episode is a case study in government dysfunction and evasion exposed through rigorous congressional oversight. The Meiselas brothers bring their signature blend of wit and righteous anger to highlight two Trump appointees in free fall under questioning—Patel for his erratic, combative stance, and Turner for his fundamental ignorance of his own agency’s operations. The brothers’ use of direct debate transcripts and well-placed commentary makes the episode both entertaining and illuminating for those concerned about democratic values, accountability, and competence in government.

Transcript

[Scott Turner]

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[Kash Patel]

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[Congresswoman Torres]

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[Kash Patel]

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[Narrator/Host]

guests Two more of Donald Trump's top officials crashed under cross examination during congressional hearings today. First in the United States Senate. Donald Trump's FBI director, Cash Patel completely folded during cross examination, especially regarding some of the stories that been written about Cash Patel recently. He became unglued. He started yelling, ranting and raving like a lunatic. I'll show you what went down there. You're not going to want to miss this. Then separately in the House of Representatives, Donald Trump's Housing and Urban Development Secretary, Scott Turner demonstrated that he has no clue what his department even does. He didn't have a command or even any understanding of some basic facts about his department. And then he continued to look lie and it was just really uncomfortable to watch just how bad he did. So let me show you what went down. This is the Midas Touch network where we bring receipts. As a reminder, make sure you hit subscribe. Help us get to 7 million subscribers. So first I want to show you FBI Director Cash Patel blowing up as Senator Van Hollen asked him some very basic questions about the allegations that were reported in the Atlantic. And just look how Kash Patel looks. He looks unkempt. He's got the kind of button missing from the shirt. It's really ugly. Here, let's play this clip as do

[Kash Patel]

the men and women of the interagency and state and local law enforcement in the White House.

[Senator Van Hollen]

And so there have been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you, is that right?

[Kash Patel]

Nope. It's a total farce. I don't even know where you get this stuff. But it doesn't make it credible because you say so.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I'm not saying it, Director Patel. It's been written and documented.

[Kash Patel]

You are literally saying it.

[Senator Van Hollen]

No, I'm saying that these are reports,

[Kash Patel]

Director Patel, unlike, unlike baseless reports, the only person was slinging margaritas in El Salvador on the taxpayer dollar with a convicted gang banging rapist was you. You know, the Only person that ran up a thousand dollar bar tab in Washington D.C. at the lobby was you.

[Senator Van Hollen]

This the only individual in this room.

[Kash Patel]

Allegations drinking on taxpayer dime during.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Are you polygraphing you, Director Patel? Come on. These are serious allegations that were made against you. They're allegations are false.

[Kash Patel]

Filed you drinking margaritas with a gang

[Senator Van Hollen]

just goes to show you running a

[Kash Patel]

$7,000 bar tab at bar has been filed by your own office. Goes to show during the day that's you. This is the ultimate example of hypocrisy.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Chairman.

[Kash Patel]

I will not be tarnished by baseless allegations, fraudulent statements from the media.

[Senator Van Hollen]

The fact that you mentioned that indicates you don't know what you are talking about. Now here direct.

[Kash Patel]

Only thing I know is you're the one drinking margaritas with fellas.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Actually that's a false statement. And I'm asking you about your statements. I've answered that and I'm asking you about a particular report and it's not a report. So let me ask you this. Are you willing to take the. The test that it's. It's called the audit test that members of our active duty military and others take to determine whether they have a drinking problem.

[Kash Patel]

I'll take any test you're willing to take.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I will take it.

[Kash Patel]

Doc.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Director Pateli. I'll take it. You ready to take it?

[Kash Patel]

Let's go.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Yes or no.

[Kash Patel]

Let's go side by side.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I'll take it. All right.

[Narrator/Host]

More from Senator Van Hollen Cross examining Cash Patel right here. And then Cash Patel starts to lie and attack Senator Van Hollen. You see how insecure, how defensive, how unqualified, frankly, how dumb Cash Patel looks. But you can judge for yourself. Here, play this clip.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Have you had a chance to listen to or read about Brian Driscoll's statements about what you said to him and the reasons for him firing?

[Kash Patel]

No, I have not, sir.

[Senator Van Hollen]

So let me. Let me just say this, Mr. Director. In your response to me earlier where you had a little bit of a blow up, you made a couple provably false statements.

[Kash Patel]

So did you.

[Senator Van Hollen]

No, I. Mr. Director, I was reading about and asking you and asking you to respond to allegations that are made. In fact, I was giving you an opportunity to do that and you took that opportunity. But in the process, you made these provably false statements that I know are sort of like urban legend in right wing media about margaritas in El Salvador, which is provably false. And so coming from the mouth of an FBI director to make provably false statements in a hearing like this is extremely troubling. And it. It leads me to ask whether or not the other things you've been saying are false statements. And so my. Because that was. That's a provably false statement. You made a couple others that are provably false. And this is from the mouth of the FBI director.

[Kash Patel]

The only one final statements is you.

[Senator Van Hollen]

My final question to you, Mr. Director, is do you know that it is a crime to lie to Congress? You know that. That's my last question.

[Kash Patel]

I have not lied to Congress.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I didn't ask you that.

[Kash Patel]

The Congress is you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I'm not testifying here, sir, and I don't lie.

[Kash Patel]

Maybe the next time you run up a $7,000 bar tab, we can talk about it.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Well, see, there you go line again. You suggest the FEC report. I'll post it.

[Kash Patel]

Right.

[Senator Van Hollen]

You suggested it was public. It wasn't public money. As you know. That was for a 50 member staff party.

[Kash Patel]

So it was a $7,000 bar tab.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Mr. Patel, I'm glad. Let me just say in closing, Mr. Chairman, two things. I'm glad that you have agreed to take the test regarding, you know, whether you have alcohol problems. I'm glad you agreed with me to do that. You still haven't answered my final question. Do you know, Mr. Director, that it is a crime to lie to Congress? Do you know that

[Kash Patel]

I do not lie to Congress.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I didn't ask you that.

[Kash Patel]

You're insinuating that I am.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I asked you want. Whether you know.

[Kash Patel]

You want to correct your time in this session where you got steamrolled by the facts so you can have a Twitter narrative, raise more money and spend more money on $7,000.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Just let the record. The director of the FBI apparently does not want to answer the question about whether or not it's a crime to lie to Congress. And I find that extremely troubling.

[Kash Patel]

I find it troubling. You lie to the American people every day.

[Senator Van Hollen]

You are a disgrace. Mr. Director. The fact that you can't answer that question.

[Narrator/Host]

More from Senator Van Hollen Cross examining Keshe Patel right here regarding allegations that Patel forces FBI officials to undergo polygraph test about whether their sources to media outlets like the Atlantic and others, because Patel is very paranoid about these stories about him. Let's play this clip.

[Senator Van Hollen]

You ordered polygraph tests of members of your team to determine how that story came about.

[Kash Patel]

The FBI conducts polygraph tests all the time.

[Ryan Reynolds]

No.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Have you ordered polygraph tests for members of your team to determine who was the source of the stories that I'M asking you about.

[Kash Patel]

I don't order any polygraph tests. There's an internal inspection review process for any and all leaks, especially of baseless information at the FBI that's been in place for the last 30 years. Those processes are followed by career intelligence and agents on the ground.

[Senator Van Hollen]

So I'll take that as a yes. Since you said that these were. These were unauthorized disclosures, I have another round of question regarding your firing people who were important to gathering intelligence with respect to Iran. But I'll wait for my second round then.

[Narrator/Host]

Cash Patel says that he was actually working when he was at the Olympics and we saw him. Or when he was at. Yeah, when he was at the Olympics and we saw him holding a beer and he looked like he was chugging it, which would seem to just destroy any defamation case he has. Just based on saying, I was working and I'm drinking in the locker room. But okay, good for you, Cash. So embarrassing for the FBI. Let's play it.

[Kash Patel]

I have to ask you one last question. You attended the Olympics in Milan. How much did your trip cost and to what extent did that help you carry out your mission as director of the FBI? I greatly appreciate the question, Senator. As you know, the FBI and DHS are responsible for the security of the Olympics, the World cup, the F1, the Super bowl, and everything else. We had 250,000Americans travel to Milan. We're proud that we stood up our jock there and had zero major security incidents of American citizens. And what we did was we purposely planned that trip around the Olympics because, as I mentioned in my opening, the top cyber criminal from the CCP was housed in Italian custody. While there, we were able to work an agreement, an arrangement, to have that individual expelled from Italy instead of going back to China, like has so often happened in places like Serbia. And so we accomplished that mission and we kept it quiet and that individual's return to America two weeks ago.

[Narrator/Host]

And then finally, more cross examination here from Senator Van Hollen of Kash Patel. Play this clip.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Director Patel, I've been listening carefully to your responses to some of my colleagues, and I want to start with a question that Senator Coons asked you that relates to this article where the headline is Cash Patel's latest firing Firings Ousted agents with Expertise in Iran. The article says that these individuals were fired for their role in the classified documents investigations of Donald Trump. First of all, is that true?

[Kash Patel]

The article, just like all the other articles you cited, is false. And there's ongoing litigation, so I can't address it.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Okay. Did you, you did answer, Senator Coons. And I understood your answer to be that the people that were fired, that none of them were part of the group that had Iran expertise. Is that, is that your answer?

[Kash Patel]

No. He asked if they were Iran experts. I said they were not.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Do you, did the, were the group fired? Did it include people who are Iran experts?

[Congressmember Quigley]

No.

[Senator Van Hollen]

Did it include people who were involved in counter espionage activities with respect to Iran?

[Kash Patel]

I don't have the list in front of me.

[Senator Van Hollen]

So you don't know whether or not you fired people with counter executive counter espionage experience with respect to Iran? You don't know the answer to that question.

[Kash Patel]

I terminated anyone and everyone that weaponized law enforcement.

[Senator Van Hollen]

I see. So it was related obviously to the classified documents case.

[Kash Patel]

So that's not what I said before

[Narrator/Host]

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[Congressmember Quigley]

Let me jump on. You said something else there. It's something like equal rights, not extra rights. Can I ask who. What group you're referring to for extra rights?

[Scott Turner]

Equal rights, not extra.

[Congressmember Quigley]

When you talk about getting extra rights.

[Scott Turner]

When you talk about the Fair Housing Act. It's our job at HUD to uphold and to enforce the fair housing respectfully.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Who's getting extra?

[Scott Turner]

So we want to go. We want to go after real discrimination and not phantom discrimination.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Who's getting fan? Who's being phantomly discriminated against?

[Scott Turner]

We want to go after real discrimination, sir, not phantom discrimination.

[Congressmember Quigley]

All right, then answer this question. Who's actually being discriminated against?

[Scott Turner]

We're going after real discrimination.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Who. Okay, does that.

[Scott Turner]

Equal rights.

[Kash Patel]

I guess according to the Fair Housing

[Congressmember Quigley]

act, this is why not extra Hopwa. Because you think seven classes.

[Scott Turner]

It's seven classes.

[Congressmember Quigley]

I'm claiming my time.

[Narrator/Host]

Yes, sir.

[Congressmember Quigley]

I'm going to take a wild guess that you think LGBTQ people are getting extra rights and privileges, which is why you cut Hopwa, despite the fact that NIH has said that many studies have shown that access to housing is associated with better outcomes. That's why Hopwa that you cut completely. 90 to 95% of the people in Hopwa supportive housing are meeting their HIV medication goals. It's well below half for people who are homeless. So you cut housing Hopwa grants. Is this because you think LGBTQ people are getting extra rights?

[Scott Turner]

Sir, I did not say LGBTQ or getting extra.

[Congressmember Quigley]

I'm asking you who you think is getting extra rights.

[Scott Turner]

Our job is inference.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Pretty good inference.

[Scott Turner]

Our job is to. Is to have a paradigm shift for all people that are homeless.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Why cut home?

[Scott Turner]

Our job is to make sure that we're treating people that are homeless to transform people.

[Congressmember Quigley]

All right, I got that answer. So it's not what cut so disproportionately cut in Hopwa. Why cut Hopwa?

[Scott Turner]

Sir, we're on a budget. This is a budget. Hopwa is part of the budget. All American people are part of the budget. We're not singling out Hopwa.

[Congressmember Quigley]

You single them out. You just cut them to zero. That's pretty much the definition of singling them out.

[Scott Turner]

We propose it to go to Emergency Solutions grant, sir.

[Narrator/Host]

And then you have some great cross examination by Congressmember Clyburn. Let's play it.

[Scott Turner]

So if you are mentally ill, in need of housing, then because you have not been treated by the appropriate agency, we're going to render you homeless. Sir, that's the natural conclusion to your step. It actually is not. My statement is saying we can't just house people. We have to continue to care for them to get them housing. And we are housing firm. We got to house them first, second and third. It doesn't just house them if you take all the money away. Housing first. Housing first is a failed model, sir. I know slogan there. So I'm not dealing with slogan there in here. I'm not even house people. When you take the money away.

[Narrator/Host]

Then you have Congresswoman Torres asking some very basic questions to Turner about housing grants for people in California whose homes got burned down in the fires from January 2025 and why those grants haven't been actually fulfilled yet while the people of California and Altadena and the Palisades are suffering. Let's play this clip.

[Congresswoman Torres]

And I both know how important CDBG Dr. Grants are for long term recovery. You've been to these sites, as I mentioned. These communities have already been told by the federal government that yes, it is a disaster and yes, they deserve the help. When is the administration going to submit a package, a disaster package for California?

[Scott Turner]

Well, thank you, ma', am. And thank you for your question. As you have alluded to, I have been there. We visited Altadena and we visited the Palisades and I had an opportunity to talk with the family members and pastors that lost churches, families that lost schools. And these families do want to rebuild, as you know.

[Congresswoman Torres]

Yes, but when, when is the administration going to submit that request?

[Scott Turner]

Yes, ma'.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Am.

[Scott Turner]

Well, as you know, you know, you all are the appropriators of that.

[Congresswoman Torres]

I know. But my question is to you.

[Scott Turner]

I understand.

[Congresswoman Torres]

When is the White House going to do that?

[Scott Turner]

I understand.

[Congresswoman Torres]

If you're not able to answer that question.

[Scott Turner]

Well, that's okay. I do have just one thing to say is that you know a lot of large. In part the problem. Part of the problem, from what I understand and talking to the locals, is with local leadership.

[Congressmember Quigley]

Okay.

[Scott Turner]

And the stewardship. I would like to have an opportunity

[Congresswoman Torres]

to discuss with you and your staff at length since you were not able to give me an answer here today. There shouldn't be any mention of any supplemental like the Iran illegal Iran war without giving California what it needs. California pays $275 billion more in federal taxes than it receives in federal funding. Every single program, every agency in this government is subsidized by hardworking Californians that have been injured, no fault of their own. And they deserve a government that is responsive to them in their time of need.

[Narrator/Host]

Then you can see right here, Congresswoman DeLauro realizes HUD Secretary Scott Turner doesn't really know what he's doing even as he's reading from his notes. Let's play this clip.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Secretary, how many beds of permanent supportive housing are funded by this program?

[Scott Turner]

Well, thank you, Mr. DeLora.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

I really appreciate the number because I'm

[Scott Turner]

going to run the housing first model, as you said, and as I said before, is indeed a failed model, with all due respect. And we need to change the way. We don't know the answer to the question.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

The answer to the question is it's roughly 170. 70,000 beds of permanent supportive housing funded by the program. How many permanent supportive housing beds are proposed to be eliminated in the fiscal year 2027 budget request?

[Scott Turner]

Ma', am, I believe that we'll be able to serve more people. It's going to be 170,000 proposing to do COC.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Do you know how many formerly homeless people could lose their housing under this budget proposal?

[Scott Turner]

What are you saying?

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

I'm asking you. What do you. What can you tell us how many formerly homeless people could lose their housing under your budget proposal?

[Scott Turner]

What I can say is that we'll be able to serve more people.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Okay. It's estimated to be more than 217,000 people, including children, who currently rely on continuum of care funded housing. That would not be continued under this proposal. Mr. Secretary, do you know what is the fastest growing population among people experiencing homelessness is.

[Scott Turner]

Ma', am, what I do know is that we have record funding and we have records.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Tell me about the fastest growing population among people experiencing homeless. This is your job to know.

[Scott Turner]

I'm here to listen. My job is to make sure that we're actually serving the people that are homeless.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Let me just say the answer is 146,000 seniors were experiencing homelessness in the most recent data. As many as 40% of people assisted in permanent supportive housing funded by the Continuum of Care program. Older adults who are formerly homeless and now have achieved some stability. Do you know which communities would suffer the most permanent supportive housing losses if CoC continuum of care is eliminated?

[Scott Turner]

Well, ma', am, I think a lot of communities are suffering right now under the housing first model, to be honest.

[Congresswoman DeLauro]

Well, let me just answer the question. It is primarily rural and suburban communities where more than 50% of beds are paid for by federal dollars. Let me just tell you, my colleagues might be interested in this. In Oklahoma, 100% of permanent supportive housing beds are paid for by federal funds. 98% in Arizona 98% in Montana, 82% in Kentucky and Indiana. So people can understand the supportive services component of supportive housing. Can you provide some examples of supportive services?

[Scott Turner]

Well man, what I can provide is that when I came in the HUD, I learned that we had almost 800000 people that were homeless.

[Narrator/Host]

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