Trump FBI Director Implodes Under Cross-Exam at House Hearing

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode: Trump FBI Director Implodes Under Cross-Exam at House Hearing
Date: September 18, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, the Meiselas brothers dissect the explosive and controversial House hearing featuring FBI Director Kash Patel. The hearing centers on Patel's handling (or alleged mishandling) of the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, specifically regarding the contents and transparency of the "Epstein files" and the alleged presence of Donald Trump’s name within them. The episode is packed with pointed cross-examinations from various Democratic members of Congress and a few Republicans, putting Patel under intense scrutiny. The podcast provides a blow-by-blow analysis of the juiciest moments and the broader implications for democracy, transparency, and justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. Setting the Stage: Democrats Put Pressure on Kash Patel

Timestamps: 00:28–01:38

• Democrats aggressively question Patel, accusing him and Trump of covering up information relating to Epstein’s sex trafficking ring.
• Notable moment: Rep. Lofgren grilling Patel about how many times Trump’s name appears in the Epstein files.
  • “How many times did the President’s name appear?” (Congressmember Thomas Massie, 01:31)
  • Patel dodges: “I don’t know.” (Kash Patel, 01:34)

2. Withholding Evidence & Legal Evasions

Timestamps: 02:02–03:19

• Rep. Dan Goldman (a former prosecutor) presses Patel to explain why the FBI isn’t releasing witness statements or unsealing files.
• Patel claims everything “legally” releasable has already been made public.
  • “Why are you not going to the court like you did for the grand jury testimony to unseal those records?” (Moderator/Goldman, 02:44)
  • Patel repeatedly evades, leading to accusations of a cover-up.
• Goldman bluntly: “You are hiding the Epstein files. You are part of the COVID up.” (Moderator/Host, 02:58)
• Patel finally: “Any allegations that I’m a part of a cover up to protect child sexual trafficking and victims of human trafficking and sexual crimes is patently and categorically false.” (Kash Patel, 03:06)

3. Cross-Examination Highlights: The Trump Questions

Timestamps: 03:42–06:46

• Rep. Eric Swalwell’s sustained questioning about whether Trump’s name is in the Epstein files or if Trump was ever told that it was.
  • Patel repeatedly dodges simple yes/no questions.
  • Swalwell: “Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump’s name is in the Epstein files? Yes or no?” (Eric Swalwell, 04:21)
  • Patel, dodging: “Why don’t you try spelling it out?” (Kash Patel, 04:27)
  • Swalwell, frustrated: “We will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt.” (Eric Swalwell, 05:00)
• Swalwell presses on the number of Trump mentions in the files.
  • “So it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right?” (Eric Swalwell, 05:19)
  • Patel: “The number is a total misleading factor... I don’t know the number, but it’s not that.” (Kash Patel, 05:30, 05:57)
• Rep. Swalwell: “Do you think it might be your job to know the number?” (06:02)

4. The Informant Question and Forgery Claims

Timestamps: 07:11–08:47

• Swalwell asks if Trump ever acted as an FBI informant about Epstein (“Donald Trump has not been... an informant of the FBI.” — Kash Patel, 07:16).
• Rep. Jared Moskowitz demands to know if the FBI will investigate an alleged forgery on a photograph tied to Trump’s signature.
  • “Will you be opening up an investigation into the Epstein estate for putting out a fake document with the President’s signature...?” (Moderator/Moskowitz, 08:02)
  • Patel: “Sure, I’ll do it.” (Kash Patel, 08:37)
  • Moskowitz: “Okay. I look forward to that investigation.” (Moderator/Host, 08:38)

5. “Charged Names” vs. Uncharged Suspects & The Cover-Up Claim

Timestamps: 08:47–10:23

• Moskowitz exposes Patel’s narrowing of the “names in the files” down to those officially charged—only Epstein and Maxwell.
• Moskowitz: “Other than Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, your testimony is... the number of names is zero.” (Moderator/Host, 09:57)
• Patel: "That were charged based on credible evidence.” (Kash Patel, 10:07)
• Criticism: The “co-conspirators”—the uncharged—are never named or outed.

6. Alleged Past Hypocrisy: Roll the Tape

Timestamps: 10:32–12:22

• Rep. Jamie Raskin uses Patel’s own past appearances and statements against him, showing he used to advocate for full disclosure of the Epstein files.
  • Patel (in a past clip): “Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.” (11:25)
  • Raskin hammers the apparent about-face: now that Patel’s director, he shields, rather than reveals.

7. The Black Book: Who Controls It?

Timestamps: 11:47–12:32

• Patel admitted previously that the "black book" is under the direct control of the FBI Director, yet continues to insist that all has been released.

8. The Director Hasn't Even Reviewed It All

Timestamps: 13:45–14:20

• Shock revelation: Patel admits he has not personally read all the Epstein files.
  • Swalwell calls it out: “You’re the director of the FBI. This is the largest sex trafficking case... and your testimony today is you have not reviewed all the files.” (Eric Swalwell, 14:09)

9. Rep. Thomas Massie Pushes from the Right

Timestamps: 15:05–18:29

• Massie, a Republican, presses about 302 documents (FBI witness interviews), asking if Patel or DOJ have gone after powerful men named in victim statements—Patel can’t or won’t answer directly.
• Massie: “If you’re willing to meet with social media influencers... will you meet with the victims as well?” (Thomas Massie, 17:06)
• Patel: “The FBI will meet with anyone who has new information.” (17:09), but refuses personal meeting.

10. Who Is on the Client List? Direct Dodging

Timestamps: 19:13–20:12

• Rep. Ted Lieu: “Is Prince Andrew on Epstein’s client list?... Is Donald Trump on Epstein’s client list?” (19:19, 19:36)
• Patel: “The index has been released and the index will speak for itself.” (Kash Patel, 19:38)
• Lieu: “America, huge red flag—the FBI director could not answer, gentlemen, whether Donald Trump was on Epstein.” (Ted Lieu, 19:41)

11. Photos and Messages: What Exists, What’s Hidden?

Timestamps: 19:57–21:11

• Lieu asks: Are there photos of Trump with underage girls? Patel: “No.” (20:17)
• Lieu (citing the secret birthday message discovered by the Wall Street Journal): “That’s just not true... Certainly you weren’t there at the search... Maybe someone has it. Maybe the Epstein estate has it.” (20:51)
• Lieu pushes on FBI’s responsibility to subpoena tapes from journalist Michael Wolff—Patel dodges.

12. Awareness and Empathy Gaps

Timestamps: 21:28–23:13

• Rep. Jayapal raises the ages of victims—Patel attempts to move away.
• Kamloger Dove is shocked that Patel, as FBI Director, doesn't know who Dylann Roof is, suggesting lack of seriousness or awareness about racism and mass violence.
  • "Can you give me some more information? Head of the FBI. You probably know this..." (Kash Patel/cross-examiner, 22:20)

13. Subpoenas and Accountability

Timestamps: 22:54–23:13

• Lieu again: "Would it be great if FBI subpoenaed the estate of Jeffrey Epstein for all that information?"
• Patel counters: "The estate is under no obligation to provide that material, even pursuant to a subpoena... literally not how it works." (Kash Patel, 23:13, 23:27)
• Lieu: "That's just false. You're the freaking FBI. You can subpoena information from this estate and you better do that." (Ted Lieu, 23:21)

14. The Danger of Faux Equivalency and Whataboutism

Timestamps: 23:36–24:43

• Moskowitz cautions about “painting the whole left” or whole right with one brush, criticizing extremism on both sides.
  • “There are extremes on the left and there are extremes on the right and we collectively should tackle that. But to come here and just look at us and say we all support what’s going on in the extremes is why we can’t solve anything in this building.” (Moskowitz, 24:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Swalwell to Patel: “We will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt.” (05:00)
• Patel’s dodge: “Why don’t you try spelling it out?... Use the Alphabet.” (04:27)
• Patel admitting limited review: “I have reviewed not the entirety of the files. ... No.” (14:01–14:08)
• Moskowitz’s sarcasm: “Okay. I look forward to that investigation.” (08:38)
• Patel on releasing names: “We are not releasing the names of anyone because the Department of Justice never does that of anyone that didn’t have any credible information.” (10:14)
• The “big boy pants” quote: “Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.” (11:25; past Kash Patel)
• Lieu’s disbelief: “That’s just false. You’re the freaking FBI. You can subpoena information from this estate and you better do that.” (23:21)
• Kamloger Dove’s incredulity: “Head of the FBI. You probably know this. ...It was national news.” (22:20)

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Takeaways & Analysis

• Partisan Tensions: The hearing was deeply divided, with Democrats relentlessly pressing for transparency on Trump’s connection to Epstein and Republicans generally protecting Patel, with some exceptions.
• Director on Defense: Patel frequently dodges or obfuscates, at times snarky or defiant, showing growing frustration as pointed questions multiply. His lack of first-hand familiarity with the files is considered a “shocking revelation” by the MeidasTouch hosts and guests.
• Hypocrisy Highlighted: Patel’s change of tune from transparency advocate to obstructionist is hammered home by the panel and committee members.
• Obstacles to Justice Remain: The “black book” and uncharged co-conspirators remain shrouded, with Patel refusing to personally meet with victims.
• Broader Message: The episode underscores the challenges facing the American justice system in holding the powerful accountable, and the continued fight for transparency and democracy.

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Recommended Segments for Listening

• Rep. Swalwell’s relentless questioning: 03:42–06:46
• Moskowitz’s “forgery” investigation moment: 08:01–08:47
• Lieu’s “client list” standoff: 19:13–20:21
• Patel’s “big boy pants” hypocrisy: 10:43–12:22

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For listeners seeking highlights, focus on the cross-examinations by Reps. Swalwell, Moskowitz, Lieu, Massie, and Raskin for the most impactful moments.

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Tone

The tone is fast, urgent, direct, and often acerbic—punctuated by dark humor and earnest outrage from both questioners and the podcast hosts. The Meiselas brothers bring their signature mix of legal savvy, skepticism, and biting wit to the recap, calling out what they see as hypocrisy and dangerous double standards at the highest levels of government.

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Summary crafted for clarity and completeness. Direct quotes are provided with speaker attribution and timestamps. All ad and non-content segments are omitted.

Transcript

[Moderator/Host]

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[Kash Patel]

Oof.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Democrats in the House of Representatives just put the screws into FBI Director Cash Patel. I think the House Democrats were more effective than the Democrats in the Senate were yesterday in really exposing what an utter phony Cash Patel is and how Cash Patel and Donald Trump are covering up this pedo sex trafficking ring and are covering up Donald Trump's dark past. Watch as Democratic Congresswoman Lofgren had a very basic question for Cash Patel. How many times did Donald Trump's name appear in The Epstein files? 1. 1,000? 10,000? Kesh Patel refuses to answer. Here, play this clip.

[Kash Patel]

I said it wasn't.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

So you're saying that none of this happened?

[Kash Patel]

No, I'm saying it was inaccurate.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Okay. How many times did President Nunce appear in the Epstein files? More than 100? More than a thousand?

[Kash Patel]

No. And what we've been able to release is what we've been legally able to release. And that is?

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

No, that's not the question I asked you. How many times did the President's name appear?

[Kash Patel]

I don't know.

[Moderator/Host]

It's your testimony.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

You do not know that?

[Kash Patel]

A number of times, no.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Next up, you have Democratic Congress Member Dan Goldman who says, why aren't you releasing the witness interviews? Why aren't you releasing all of the evidence that the DOJ can release tomorrow? And Cash Patel tries to squirm out of it. But Congressmember Goldman says, I'm a former prosecutor. I know you can release this. Here, play this clip.

[Moderator/Host]

And I want to understand what the court order prevents you from releasing witness statements that the FBI took.

[Kash Patel]

You should know that as a real prosecutor, when the court hand downs a protective order and a motion to seal, the material is sealed.

[Moderator/Host]

Unless that is that all of those witness statements are under a court order, a protective order.

[Kash Patel]

We are providing everything we can legally provide.

[Moderator/Host]

No, that's not my question. My question is why are those witness statements that are not grand jury testimony that if they were under a protective order are no longer under a protective order. Why are they not being released?

[Kash Patel]

How are they not under protective.

[Moderator/Host]

Why are you not going to the court like you did for the grand jury testimony to unseal those records?

[Kash Patel]

The DOJ did go to the court.

[Moderator/Host]

No, not on those records. Why aren't you going? You just went on grand jury.

[Kash Patel]

Time of the gentleman is expired.

[Moderator/Host]

You are hiding the Epstein files.

[Kash Patel]

Mr.

[Moderator/Host]

The gentleman is expired. You are part of the COVID up.

[Kash Patel]

Can I respond?

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Sure can.

[Kash Patel]

Any allegations that I'm a part of a cover up to protect child sexual trafficking and victims of human trafficking and sexual crimes is patently and categorically false and the work of my so I.

[Moderator/Host]

Hope you will talk to them to speak with you because the victims have not responding to them.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Next up you have Democratic Congress member Eric Swalwell cross examining Cash Patel. Patel refuses to give a direct answer whether he told Attorney General Bondi that Trump's name is in the Epstein files.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Play this clip remembering your oath to tell the truth. Did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files?

[Kash Patel]

I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

[Kash Patel]

The Attorney General and I have had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein files and the reviews conducted by our team.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein.

[Kash Patel]

Files and we have released where President Trump did you?

[Moderator/Host]

Simple question.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Did you tell the Attorney General that the President's name is in the Epstein files?

[Kash Patel]

During many conversations that the Attorney General and I have had on the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

The question is simple.

[Kash Patel]

Who?

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

You tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files. Yes or no?

[Kash Patel]

Why don't you try spelling it out?

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Yes or no?

[Kash Patel]

Use the Alphabet.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Yes or no?

[Kash Patel]

No. ABC Director, it sounds like you don't.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Want to tell us. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files?

[Kash Patel]

Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that are legally harbored in your sanctuary cities in California? I work with you on that regular order, Mr. Chairman.

[Moderator/Host]

I belong to a gentleman from California.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

[Kash Patel]

Question has been asked and answered.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

You've not answered it and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Director and Congressmember Swalwell continues down this line of cross examination. So what are you saying? Trump's Name can appear 1000 times? Even more. Tell us Cash. Tell us Cash. Here, play this clip.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

In fact, I appreciate the Director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files. So it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right?

[Kash Patel]

The number is a total misleading factor. We have not released anyone's name we have not released anyone's name in the Epstein files that has not been credible.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Director.

[Kash Patel]

Every piece of legally permissible information.

[Moderator/Host]

Okay.

[Kash Patel]

You can characterize the numbers however you want it.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Claiming my time, Director. It sounds like if you don't know the number, it could at least be a thousand times.

[Moderator/Host]

It's not.

[Kash Patel]

It's not.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Is it at least 500 times?

[Kash Patel]

No.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Is it at least 100 times?

[Kash Patel]

No.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Then what's the number?

[Kash Patel]

I don't know the number, but it's not that.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Do you think it might be your job to know the number?

[Kash Patel]

My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country. My job is not to engage in political innuendo. So you can go out to the sticks and get your 22nd hit and your fundraising. Keep going. Reclaiming your time. Because the people of California are being underserved by.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Your representation is not implicated. Why not release everything that involves.

[Kash Patel]

We have released everything. The President and anyone else's side that is credible and lawfully be able to be released. Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm hiding files is disgusting. Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone and go back to the state of California. Who's receiving the biggest surge in FBI resources through my redeployment because the cities of Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Remembering your oath to tell the truth, did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files?

[Kash Patel]

I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Did you ever?

[Narrator/Commentator]

But Cash Patel is willing to say that Donald Trump is not an FBI informant despite the fact that the speaker of the House MAGA, Mike Johnson previously said he was here. Play this clip.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Donald Trump ever provide information about Jeffrey Epstein as an informant?

[Kash Patel]

Donald Trump has not been, and I can only speak for the FBI, an informant of the FBI.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

So, Director, you've played this cute shell.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now I want to show you Democratic Congressmember Moskowitz. Here's what he had to say. Congressmember Moskowitz says you've seen the picture of the woman's body with the President's. Signature. And so you're saying this is a forgery. So I guess. Is the FBI going to open up a forgery investigation and watch Congressmember Moskowitz get Cash Patel to agree a forgery investigation should be open based on Donald Trump now claiming that. That in the 2003 book, that's property of the Epstein estate. Someone planted this over 20 years ago. Here, play this clip.

[Kash Patel]

Okay, let me attack that.

[Moderator/Host]

Let me move forward. The President has. You've seen the picture of the woman's body with the writing and the President's signature. The President says that's not his. Okay. President says it's not his. The Republican colleagues say it's not his. The administration say it's not his. Will you be opening up an investigation into the Epstein estate for putting out a fake document with the President's signature linking him to the world's largest pedophile ring? We'd be opening that investigation into that.

[Kash Patel]

On what basis?

[Moderator/Host]

On what basis? They literally put out a fake document according to the President with a fake signature. It's a forgery of the President of the United States Signature. That's the basis.

[Kash Patel]

Sure, I'll do it.

[Moderator/Host]

Okay. I look forward to that investigation. Oh, am I over? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your doing.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Congressmember Moskowitz was really on fire during this hearing as well. And he said, other than Epstein and Maxwell, your testimony here is that the number of names in the Epstein files is zero. And what Congressmember Moskowitz gets Cash Patel to admit to is Cash Patel goes, I'm just talking about the charged names. Well done. The only charged names is Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Those were the only people who were charged. The issue is the COVID up. It's the uncharged names that should be charged and should be investigated and should be outed. That's the whole point. And Congressmember Moskowitz, real brilliant cross examination by him gets Patel to admit it. Here, play this clip.

[Moderator/Host]

And yesterday, in an answer to Senator Kennedy, you said the FBI is not in possession of any criminal evidence that Epstein trafficked girls to any, anyone but himself. So according to your testimony yesterday and in this committee, according to the evidence the FBI has, the number of names on the list are 0. 0.

[Kash Patel]

The index has been released and the number of people involved in that trafficking operation were charged in 2018.

[Moderator/Host]

Other than Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell, your testimony in the Senate and here is that according to the evidence you have, the number of other names is 0.

[Kash Patel]

That were charged based on credible Evidence.

[Moderator/Host]

Who are the other names? Give me the other names that weren't charged.

[Kash Patel]

We are not releasing the names of anyone because the Department of Justice never does that of anyone that didn't have any credible information. Okay, let me attack that.

[Moderator/Host]

Let me move forward.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Yeah, I thought that was a very effective line of cross examination. One more clip right here of Congressmember.

[Kash Patel]

Let's not.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Let's show Congressmember Raskin at this point. Here's what Congressmember Raskin has to say where he shows clips of Kash Patel calling to release the Epstein files.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Let's play that before you joined the FBI, you railed against it for covering up Jeffrey Epstein's human trafficking ring. Let me refresh your memory with this clip.

[Moderator/Host]

It has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

That doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator.

[Moderator/Host]

That seems like an evil thing to do, regardless of who. Who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Pederast, the largest scale pederast in human history?

[Kash Patel]

Simple. Because of who's on that list.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

So you finished that December 2023 interview with a challenge to the FBI and harsh words for Republicans in Congress for not getting the Epstein files out to the public. You can see this clip.

[Kash Patel]

Boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. You said, you emphasized that the President and FBI Director each had complete authority to release Epstein's client list. You said Epstein's black book is under the, quote, direct control of the Director of the FBI. Look at this clip.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

This is way off the topic. But who has Jeffrey Epstein's black book?

[Kash Patel]

Black book, FBI.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But who that is.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

I mean, there's.

[Kash Patel]

That's under direct control of the Director of the FBI.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

All right, so you were sworn in as director more than 200 days ago. Now the black book is under your direct control. So why haven't you released the names of Epstein's co conspirators in the rape and sex trafficking of young women and girls?

[Kash Patel]

The Rolodex, which is what everybody colloquially refers to as the black book, has been released.

[Interviewer/Reporter]

Oh, no, you're talking about what the journalist got five years ago. No, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what you were talking about there. The black book under the direct control of the FBI director.

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[Narrator/Commentator]

And Congressmember Swalwell then gets Patel to admit he hasn't even reviewed all the files. Here, play this clip.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Director, the first time you saw Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files. Did you close the files or keep reading?

[Kash Patel]

I have reviewed not the entirety of the files. So I have.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

You haven't reviewed all of the Epstein files personally?

[Kash Patel]

No.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

You're the director of the FBI. This is the largest sex trafficking case the FBI has ever been a part of. Buck stops at the top. And your testimony today is you have not reviewed all the files.

[Kash Patel]

What I've been doing is busy providing the safest country this country has seen in modern U.S. history in historic speed. Because the men and women of the FBI are given the resources to reduce the homicide rate, to reduce the drug trafficking rate, to reduce the amount of children that are being trafficked and the.

[Congressmember Eric Swalwell]

Number of sounds like those children being trafficked. Appreciate the director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's Now I'll show you.

[Narrator/Commentator]

A Republican, kind of one of the lone Republicans who have been really leading the charge here, Thomas Massie, who initiated the discharge petition to get a vote. But Trump said that if any Republicans sign on to this discharge petition, it's a hostile act against the regime. Here's Congressmember Massie's questioning.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Watch this. So is the loophole Here. Or is it your assertion that these victims aren't credible? That the 302s maybe didn't produce credible statements that rise to a probable cause?

[Kash Patel]

It's not my assertion, sir. It's the assertion of two different United States Attorney's offices from three separate administrations who investigated those same materials in lifetime.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Are the 302 documents in the FBI's possession?

[Kash Patel]

They reviewed all that? Yes, sir.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

And so have you reviewed those 302 documents that where the victims name the people who victimized them?

[Kash Patel]

If I personally know. But the FBI has.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

So how can you sit here and in front of the Senate and say there are no names?

[Kash Patel]

I said.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

I named one today.

[Kash Patel]

I said we are not in the. We are not in the practice at the Department of Justice FBI of releasing victims names. That is not what we do. We are also not in the habit of releasing incredible information. That's not what we do. But multiple authorities have looked at the entirety of what we have.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Okay, I got to move on here. Were you president?

[Narrator/Commentator]

Here's Congressmember Massie again saying so let me get this straight. You were present when the Attorney General and the influencers released the social. The Trump MAGA influencers held up the binders, the Epstein file binders, back in February, but you're not there with the victims today. So are you gonna personally meet the victims? And Patel doesn't agree to personally meet Epstein's victims. Like maybe the FBI will handle it. Their hatred of the victims is so freaking clear. Here, watch this.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

I gotta move on here. Were you present when the AG had the White House event, when she released the binders to social media influencers?

[Kash Patel]

I was, yes.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

So if you're willing to meet with social media influencers who stood to benefit from the sensational and sad stories of these victims, will you meet with the victims as well?

[Kash Patel]

The FBI will meet with anyone who has new information.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Will you personally meet with them?

[Kash Patel]

The FBI and the professionals who are handling the cases Will.

[Moderator/Host]

Were you?

[Narrator/Commentator]

It's another clip of Thomas Massie cross examining Patel.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Let's play it according to victims who cooperated with the FBI in that investigation. These documents in FBI possession, your possession, detail at least 20 men, including Mr. Jess Staley, CEO of Barclays bank, who Jeffrey Epstein trafficked victims to. Victims including minors such as Virginia Roberts. You free. May she rest in peace. That list also includes at least 19 other individuals. One Hollywood producer worth a few hundred million dollars. One royal prince, One high profile individual in the music industry. One very prominent banker. One high profile government official. One high Profile, former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rock star, one magician, at least six billionaires, including a billionaire from Canada. We know these people exist in the FBI files, the files that you control. I don't know exactly who they are, but the FBI does. Have you launched any investigations into any of these people? And have you seen these 302 documents?

[Kash Patel]

Sir, I have asked my FBI agents to review the entirety of the Epstein files and bring forth any credible information. And we're working with Congress not only to divulge that information and produce it to you, but any investigations that arise from any credible investigation will be brought. There have been no new materials brought to me launching a new day.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So I thought Congressmember Ted Lieu was particularly effective as well when he cross examines Patel. And Ted Lieu gets Patel again to refuse to answer the direct question yes or no. When asked if Epstein had Prince Andrew or Donald Trump on the client list. You'll see Patel refused to answer. Play this clip.

[Kash Patel]

It's literally not how it works.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

I'm going to move on now and talk about Epstein's client list.

[Narrator/Commentator]

You confirmed that exists.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Attorney General Pam Body confirmed earlier this year that exists. I just want to ask you a simple question. Is Prince Andrew on Epstein's client list?

[Kash Patel]

The material related to Prince Andrew has been made public.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Is Prince Andrew on the client list?

[Kash Patel]

We have released the index of names that were in Jeffrey Epstein.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Is Donald Trump on Epstein's client list?

[Kash Patel]

The index has been released and the index will speak for itself.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

So I'm going to say America is a huge red flag. The FBI director could not answer, gentlemen, whether Donald Trump was on Epstein.

[Moderator/Host]

Gentleman's time has expired.

[Kash Patel]

I do not recognize as the gentleman.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But then Ted Lieu says, are there any photos of Donald Trump with underage girls in the files? Watch this.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

In general question, as you know, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends. There are, of course, photos showing Donald Trump together with Epstein.

[Kash Patel]

Correct. I don't have the entirety of the photographs, but I think they've been photographed in public together.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

All right, are there any photos showing Donald Trump with girls of an uncertain age?

[Kash Patel]

No.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

How do you know that?

[Kash Patel]

Because that information would have been brought to light by multiple administrations and FBI investigators over the course of the last 20 years.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Well, you know what? That's just not true. Because no one knew about the creepy birthday message that Donald Trump wrote to Jeffrey Epstein until the Wall Street Journal disclosed it. And then all of a sudden, the Epstein estate provides it to Congress. Certainly you weren't there at the search. You don't know what EPC may or may not have done with those photographs even prior to the search. Maybe someone has it. Maybe the Epstein estate has it.

[Kash Patel]

You raise a great point.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

So I'm going to ask you, have you asked to talk to Michael Wolf?

[Kash Patel]

You raise a great point. I haven't personally asked to talk to my wolf. The FBI asked, but the FBI. I'll get back to you. If the FBI specifically ever about 100.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Hours of testimony of Jeffrey Epstein, would wouldn't it be good for the FBI to interview Michael Wolfe?

[Kash Patel]

I'm not saying they haven't. I just don't know.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Has Fi subpoenaed the tapes that Michael Wolfe has conducted of Jeffrey Epstein?

[Kash Patel]

I don't know.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

All right, so if you could provide us an answer, that would be terrific.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Here's a particularly powerful moment where congresswoman Jayapal is questioning Patel.

[Moderator/Host]

Let's play 16 years old. Are you going to cover up? Are you going to continue? I'm going to recognize the gentleman from.

[Kash Patel]

New Jersey for his five minutes.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

Men, including those that might be on this committee.

[Moderator/Host]

I can yell too, Mr. Chairman, but I don't want to yell above this time belongs to the gentleman from New Jersey.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now, Cash Patel claims he doesn't even know who Dylann Roof is. The shooter, the killer, the terrorist in the Charleston church shooting targeting the African American church, killing nine African Americans in Bible study. And Dylann Roof, far right wing ideology, said he was doing it for because of his anti black views. Watch congresswoman Kamloger Dove question Cash Patel, who says he doesn't even know who Dylann Roof is. Here, play this clip.

[Kash Patel]

So Dylann Roof, who followed white supremacist propaganda, murdered nine black parishioners in Charleston in 2015. Do you deny this? I'm sorry, Dylan Ruth Roof. Roof. Can you give me some more information? Head of the FBI. You probably know this. If you don't know, that's fine. You can give me a reminder. I've got a lot in front of me. It was national news. Robert.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Another great moment where Cash Patel is questioning where Cash Patel is getting questioned by congressmember Lou. Let's play it.

[Kash Patel]

Run out credible leads.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

And in the Epstein file, was there that creepy birthday message that Donald Trump had written?

[Kash Patel]

Debstein, that's what I was trying to tell you. You raise a great point. The est of Jeffrey Epstein has a voluminous amount of information that they have not released before.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Okay, so that's great. So would it be great if FBI subpoenaed the state of Jeffrey Epstein for.

[Kash Patel]

All that information, the estate is under no obligation to provide that material, even pursuant to a subpoena. That's a great point.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

Yeah, that's just. That's just false.

[Kash Patel]

Okay?

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

It just falls. You're the freaking FBI. You can subpoena information from this state and you better do that.

[Kash Patel]

Literally. Not how it works.

[Congressmember Ted Lieu]

I'm going to move on now and talk about Epstein's client list.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And finally, here's the last clip of Congressmember Moskowitz. I want to show you. Let's play it.

[Moderator/Host]

Before I begin, I want to caution my colleagues on, you know, one sided violence in this country. We just heard that there were no riots on the right. We're literally sitting in the building where there was a giant riot by supporters of the president, the right. We also heard that only leftists, okay, have said that Trump is a Nazi. In 2016, the current Vice President of the United States said Trump is either a cynical asshole or he's America's Hitler. And so this is the problem. Like, I don't want to have to say this garbage, but you want me to sit here and get painted with one brush, the whole left? No, no. There are extremes on the left and there are extremes on the right and we collectively should tackle that. But to come here and just look at us and say we all support what's going on in the extremes is why we can't solve anything in this building.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Well, there you have it, folks. Let me know what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million.

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[Moderator/Host]

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[Public Service Announcement Voice]

From the Cascades to PDX to your kitchen. We recycle like we live here. That's why governments, brands and recycling companies are all joining together to bring change to make recycling better. As in trusting that your recyclables end up in the right places to be made into new things and having brands help fund the cost of recycling. You can find the Latest [e-mail], oregon From Mount Hood to the bin under your desk Together we can do this.

[Kash Patel]

A PSA from instacart It's Sunday, 5pm you had a non stop weekend. You're running on empty and so is your fridge.

[Congressmember Thomas Massie]

You're in the trenches of the Sunday scaries.

[Moderator/Host]

You don't have it in you to.

[Kash Patel]

Go to the store, but this is your reminder. You don't have to.

[Moderator/Host]

You can get everything you need delivered.

[Kash Patel]

Through Instacart so that you can get what you really need. More time to do whatever you want. Instacart for one less Sunday. Scary. We're here.

[Public Service Announcement Voice]

From the Cascades to PDX to your kitchen. We recycle like we live here. That's why governments, brands and recycling companies are all joining together to bring change to make recycling better. As in trusting that your recyclables end up in the right places to be made into new things and having brands help fund the cost of recycling. You can find the Latest updates at recycleon.org Oregon From Mount Hood to the bin under your desk Together we can do this.