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- [00:00]
Rich Low
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.
- [00:14]
Megyn Kelly
But that's weird.
- [00:15]
Rich Low
Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for
- [00:23]
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- [01:13]
Rich Low
Every style, Every Home Donald Trump got
- [01:15]
Ron Philipowski
a very rude awakening on election Tuesday as he got to see the extent to which the American people absolutely despise him. On Tuesday morning, a poll was released from Harvard Ipsos which asked Americans who's better on the economy, Donald Trump or former President Biden. Among all voters, former President Biden won 56% to 40%, 44%. Among independent voters, former President Biden led 70% to 30%, a 40% lead among independents saying former President Biden is better at handling the economy than Donald Trump. Frankly, I think the number should be even far greater than 40%. But 40% is an overwhelming number. Then when we saw people leave the polls in states like Iowa where Donald Trump won by 13 points, you could see that the voters were absolutely fed up with Donald Trump. Watch what these voters had to say after they left the polls.
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Voters/General Public
Let's play this clip we I'm scared that I'll never own a house because this is ridiculous. All the prices are crazy, like no one's hiring. The job market is terrible. I'm scared that I'm gonna live with my parents forever Honestly. And the gas prices, it's so rare to see it above $4. And now, now that it is, it's just kind of. I feel like I'm being shot financially. It's just crappy. It sucks.
- [02:31]
Ron Philipowski
Do you think President Trump is too old to be president?
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Voters/General Public
I think so. Although you know, age is something that some people 80 are still very confident of things and others are losing it. But I think he's losing it. I think he's too old. I think we need younger people.
- [03:02]
Ron Philipowski
Speaking of Iowa, the candidate that Donald Trump endorsed for governor of Iowa, Randy Feenstra, lost to a candidate who Donald Trump did not endorse. A candidate by the name of Zach lan will go on to win the Republican nomination there. So that was one of Donald Trump's pick in a primary that lost. Also, Donald Trump has now lost the support of all of his MAGA podcasters. You have Megyn Kelly out there going on podcasts and saying this. Listen to what Megyn Kelly said. She goes, we really need to blame ourselves Republicans, she says, for electing Donald Trump. Here, play this clip like trump.
- [03:41]
Megyn Kelly
He took $200 million from Marion Adelson. How did we think that was gonna end? You know, I think we took Trump too much at his word on the I'm not gonna start any more wars, especially not Middle east wars, especially not one with Iran. We could be here for the next hour running those sound bites. We were too non skeptical when the answers were right there. If you looked at who was backing his campaign, the biggest donor. And it wasn't just Miriam, there were many. He said her loyalty is more to Israel. Why didn't we pay more attention to that? Why aren't we blaming ourselves? I don't accept that. There's no one we could find who wouldn't be true to the agenda he or she ran on. I am not quite that cynical yet. I'm not quite that black pilled.
- [04:37]
Voters/General Public
Well, that's good because I am. But I wasn't even talking about president. I was just, I mean just somebody running for Congress, Senate, whatever. I even think the president, they'll just get eaten alive by the machine.
- [04:50]
Ron Philipowski
And then just to see how dastardly and despicable this Republican Party is, you have MAGA Republican Congressmember Randy Ogles yesterday posting homosexuality has no place in America. Happy nuclear family month. He then deleted that message a few hours later and then said earlier today while working on the farm, my phone began going crazy because of a post made by a member of my communications team. The post was Stupid, hurtful and a complete distraction from my America first focus. The employee has been reprimanded. Also, you have Laura Loomer. You don't get more Trumpy and MAGA than Laura Loomer in terms of the MAGA a cult. She made a social media post saying that all of the right wing influencers and podcasters on the right wing side are funded by like Russia and they're all foreign influence operations. That's Laura Luber saying that all the right wing podcasters are foreign influence operations. So just think when Laura Loomer saying that, that's something. Then you have Donald Trump out there saying that he wants to permanently keep the UFC stadium outside of the White House because he likes the UFC stadium so much. No wonder so many people fleeing MAGA are fleeing the Republican Party are done and never want to go back to this Trump MAGA grotesque thing. Here's what he had to say.
- [06:10]
Voters/General Public
Never took it down. And you know, we're building something in front of the White House that's quite attractive to a lot of people. It's going to have the big UFC fight on June 14th and I'm looking at it and maybe we'll never ever take it down,
- [06:25]
Ron Philipowski
you know. And the person that Donald Trump and MAGA attacked most, Hunter Biden, you know, he's come out very strong, strongly on social media lately and he's been now become a very beloved figure. I've always known that about Hunter, but the rest of the world is getting to see who he is. So he started his social media accounts on May 19, 2026, saying, I'm Hunter Biden. You never actually heard of me. He then started making posts like this. Thousands of you have written to me about your recovery since I opened up about mine. Some of you are years sober. Some of you just made it through a hard day and wanted someone to know. And I will tell you what I tell everyone. You are not alone. You never are. And then he posted how almost seven years clean and sober. Not a victory lap, just a fact to anyone in the fight right now. It gets quieter, not easier, quieter. And the quiet. You find out who you actually are. That's the part they can't take from you. Here's what Hunter Biden posted yesterday about his seven years of sobriety. Here's what he posted. Here it goes.
- [07:24]
Voters/General Public
Hey everybody, just a quick message to say thank you to everybody who has messaged me today on seven years clean and sober. I'm more proud of that than anything I've ever done in my life. And I just want everybody to know that is still out there, sick and suffering. There's a way out, and that way out is together. I'm so proud to be a part of this community and I'm just so grateful for all the love and support everybody has given me. So thank you again.
- [07:57]
Ron Philipowski
Now, with this massive shift happening in the electorate with people being sick and tired of Donald Trump, we're seeing so many people leave maga. I had the opportunity to sit down with Rich Logis, who started the organization leaving MAGA. He left MAGA in 2022. Midas Touch Network has worked with Rich before. He's out with a new book and I wanted to ask Rich about the mass exodus of MAGA voters leaving the MAGA cult and coming back to normalcy. We're obviously seeing that accelerate right now. So I wanted to speak with former MAGA Rich Logis. Watch the interview I just did with Rich.
- [08:34]
Ben (Interviewer)
Now I want to bring in my friend Rich Logis of the organization leaving MAGA. Rich and I worked together very closely. In 2024. Rich started this organization leaving MAGA. As he left MAGA, Rich was a MAGA pundit. He went to all of the events. He was kind of deep, as deep as you can get at the highest levels of MAGA for many, many years. And I'll share the story with you. And then he created an organization called Leaving maga. Rich spoke at the Democratic National Convention as well, gave a very powerful speech there. And we started to see people breaking away from Maga in 2024 at a significant pace. But what seemed to have happened in 2024, it wasn't necessarily the higher level people. And for lots of the people who were leaving, they were able to recruit kind of new, younger people, peel off other voters that they didn't have before because they were making all of these promises. And Trump was saying, you know, I'm going to fix the economy in 24 hours and things would be cheaper and I alone can fix it. And I think with all of the chaos in the world, people have a short memory and forget that he was the guy who broke it in the first place. And so then you had the 2024 elections, which came as a shock for many of the people out there, especially those who, like you who left maga. How can more people kind of rejoin this thing when all of the red flags were there? And then we started to see the break slowly and surely and then kind of all at once, Rich, where we're in this moment now, where everything that you were Talking about with leaving MAGA is kind of happening and at the highest levels, levels even higher than you were. And you were at a high level. I mean, we're talking the Marjorie Taylor Greene levels, the Candace Owens levels, the Tucker Carlson. Heck, I even saw Matt Walsh. You don't get much more MAGA than that guy. Starting to say things like, wait a minute, he's turning the 250th anniversary into the Trump event day. Like, what are we, what are we doing here, folks? And I'm starting to see people say, whoa, whoa, whoa, on Iran. He's out there saying that there's a deal. Again, haven't we been through this loop now for close to damn near 100 days? So, Rich, let's start off this interview by talking about kind of this current moment. What you see is different kind of right now. And then we'll rewind a little bit to the journey of leaving maga. But right now, what are you seeing? Because this is critical right now, this moment.
- [11:09]
Rich Low
Well, thank you, Ben. It's good to see you. And it's. Let me just first, as I like to preface in my interviews and when I give public talks, I'd like to apologize for my past MAGA activism. And also this gives me an opportunity to publicly thank you for your wonderful endorsement of my memoir, One Betrayal Too Many, which I know will get into. Excuse me, get into. In a moment, I am happy to report to viewers that we, as an organization of Leaving maga, have never been busier. A lot of viewers may have seen our local or, excuse me, our national billboard campaign where we've been putting up billboards all across the country. We have two that are outside Mar a Lago. We've got over a dozen billboards in over a dozen states. And the message is very simple. On these boards, it says, having doubts. You're not alone. And I'm happy to report to everyone who's watching that we have more people than ever who are in MAGA contacting us, asking for help, leaving. And I believe that, just as you said, Ben, the cracks that are forming, they happen gradually and then suddenly all at one time. And I think we are, I believe there are more in MAGA right now than ever before who have privately left, who are quietly having doubts, but they need a place to go. And that's why we formed our organization, Leaving MAGA as a community for people who, after they leave, can join us and find the feelings of gathering and belonging and camaraderie that MAGA provided them. And it still provides to people to this day. So I think that as Trump continues to fail, as there's. As the lies build up, as the betrayals accumulate, I think we're going to see more and more people who are going to start to have doubts. And we need to. We need to give people an exit ramp and an off ramp and a new destination, and that's what we're doing with our organization.
- [13:30]
Ben (Interviewer)
Like in any cult, those who leave are immediately ostracized. You experienced a similar journey, and it's not easy because your friendships, your identity is tied up into this thing. And when Donald Trump goes after Marjorie Taylor Greene and calls her a traitor, when he goes after Thomas Massie to destroy Massie's life, it's not simply defeating Massie in the election, it's accusing Massie of things like murder, basically accusing him of infidelity, accusing him of basically being in the Epstein files himself. The person who uncovered the Epstein files then gets put on a list by Trump of people in the Epstein files. And so there's a fear, I leave this thing, the President of the United States is going to use the presidency to now label me a murderer, a pedo, a traitor, and they're going to use their media apparatus to go after us. So that's scary, though, still, to a lot of people. And how do you. How do you. When people call you and let you know that? And then at a more local level, too, people in their local MAGA clubs or organizations, they get that also. I mean, it may not directly come from Donald Trump, but they get that at the local level from their county magazine and all of. And all of this and the rumors and the Facebook posts about them. So what do you tell people like that who are scared to leave because they feel fear, retaliation and retribution?
- [15:19]
Rich Low
You know, I understand exactly where they're coming from. And it, and it does, it does show a lot of intrepidity and courage on the part of someone who does decide to walk away from what had shaped their worldview and their identity and their being and their personhood. You know, I had a second family when I was in maga. And as embarrassed as I am to admit this, that second family oftentimes took precedence over my own blood family. And I devoted lots of time and money to my MAGA activism, and that's time and money that could have gone to my. To my family, into my livelihood. So I. I do think that the President tries to rule by fear. I take no comfort in being correct that before the 2024 election, I did write extensively and publicly that had Trump won the election, I feared that he would use the presidency as a tool of retribution, as a way to exact revenge upon those against those who went against him. But we encourage those who come forward with us to give witness to their testimony because while they are taking a risk, there's also something very liberating about reclaiming one's agency, one's individuality, and one's empathy. And you've talked, Ben, a lot. You know, all the videos that I watch from Midas touch with you and your brothers, you do talk a lot about having empathy. And I would really encourage those out there who have friends and family still in the thrall of MAGA to reinitiate contact with them. And I know that that's a big ask because for many, they're so frustrated over the last 10 plus years, wondering if they'll ever have their relationships restored. And I realize how many relationships now have been torn asunder as a result of this movement. But I want friends and family to not give up on their MAGA close ones, because I'd like to think that my story is a cautionary tale. We sh I show our leaders who have decided to tell their story with us. We provide living proof that it is possible to change and that we should welcome those rather than shun those, especially as we head into the midterms. I'm not a historian, but what I know about our country's history is that every time we've been in a crisis situation and the way we've gotten through it and progressed and moved forward is by forming unlikely but necessary alliances. And I see right now an alignment that can form between those who have never been maga, to their credit, and those who decide to leave. So we can shun or we can welcome. And shunning might feel good in the moment because of how understandably angry and traumatized everyone is from maga. But we encourage those who have their friends and relatives and for those who leave maga, that we welcome them into the democratic fold.
- [18:38]
Ben (Interviewer)
Talk to us briefly, just so people remember about the One Betrayal Too many for you. This is the book One Betrayal Too Many why I Left MAGA by Rich Loach is out in bookstores now. Get it? Wherever books are sold. Talk to us about that incident for you, because to me it's ahead of its time. But it's similar to what we hear from a Marjorie Taylor Greene. It's similar to what we hear from a Thomas Massie or even a Tucker Carlson or even a Candace Owens. And for them it was the Epstein files. It seems they look past a lot of the other stuff that you didn't look past. And for you it was something else. For them it was, wait a minute, you're covering up a child sex trafficking ring. That's one betrayal too many for me. And talk about the betrayal for you.
- [19:33]
Rich Low
So I like to say that my, to paraphrase the late, venerable Ernest Hemingway, my own epiphany happened gradually and then suddenly all at once. And I feel like that's also how people fall prey to maga. Gradually and then suddenly all at once. And there's usually a variety of reasons that seduce people into supporting Trump and maga. For me, it was the reasons for leaving were legion. There was the President's mismanagement of the pandemic. There were the stolen election lies in 2020, there was January 6th. The first accelerant to my leaving was actually not Donald Trump. It was my Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, who in the summer of 21 platformed Covid anti vaxxers at a press conference. And after that happened, I did something that sounds very simple but was profoundly life altering and changing for me, which was I diversified my news and information sources and in particular after, when I did, after I did that, I went back and re examined what happened on January 6th. And I realized that it was in fact an attempt by the President to overturn a free and fair election. I had not believed that before I started expanding my information aperture and widening it. But I came to to realize that the President did in fact try to disenfranchise tens and tens of millions of voters around the country by claiming that the election was stolen, when in fact it wasn't. And for me, the final betrayal, Ben, was something that happened when Trump was not in office, but I knew exactly how he would respond to it. Which was May 24, 2022, which was the day of the Uvalde, Texas school shooting. And I knew that Trump and the Republican Party would respond to that event by saying we needed more guns and more access to guns. And it was on the day of Uvalde that I quietly left maga. But there was something that had been really gnawing at me for doing it privately because I had always been so unapologetically public in my support for Trump. And I decided In August of 2022, as we approach my, as I call it, weaving magiversary, I decided to write a mea culpa and I published it. And in this letter and in this article, I said that I was sorry for supporting Trump, that I wanted to apologize to anyone I may have hurt with my words, deeds and rhetoric. And the God's honest truth is that I never thought anybody would care. But it turned out people did care. And born from that, and telling my story and recounting it to whomever would listen to it, born from all of that was our organization. Weaving maga and the memoir is really the story of my time in maga, what enticed me about the movement, what life was like inside of it, why I left and why I continue to speak up. And first and foremost, I wrote it with, with those who are having doubts in mind. I also wrote it and dedicated it to those who have left MAGA and friends and relatives. And I wanted. I want the book to serve as a blueprint for those who are having doubts, to let them know that they're not alone, that we know exactly what they're going through, and that we know that it's frightening to endure the. The cognitive dissonance that happens when our sincerely held beliefs are challenged by what it is that we're seeing around us. And I think that the more the president breaks his promises, the more he lies, the more betrayals that occur. I think more and more within his base are going to reach their red wine. And I do believe that most in MAGA do have a line of demarcation that when it's reached, it starts to make them question their belief system and it commences doubts and confusion. That those were my initial emotions, were doubt and confusion when I started to then question my beliefs. And I realized that so much of what it was that I believe Ben turned out to be false. And I had to have a reckoning with myself. It was a lot of late nights, a lot of thought, just me and my thoughts, a very tumultuous time, lots of turmoil, where I had to painfully but liberatingly accept that so much of what it was that I believed were falsehoods and conspiracy theories. And to leave maga, it's not enough to just distance oneself from the president. Someone has to acknowledge that we were not coerced into supporting Trump. And we need to renounce the wise falsehoods and conspiracy theories of MAGA politics. And for those who want information on the on the book, they can get it at our website@weavingmaga.org we are in bookstores all across the country, not just Amazon. I understand that for good reason. Some people are boycotting Amazon, but the book is available outside of just Amazon and is in bookstores all across the nation.
- [24:52]
Ben (Interviewer)
The book is called One Betrayal Too Many why I Left Maga. And I remember right after the 2024 election, you and I had this inflection point because do you still make the Leaving Maga videos? Do you still lean in to the leading to the Leaving Maga movement when the guy won and it was like what do you do in that situation? And there were so many people who gave up and you didn't give up, we didn't give up. This community didn't give up. Don't get me wrong, it was difficult time period for everybody. But here we are. We find ourselves in June 2026 and I think the Leaving Maga movement is stronger than ever. It's unfortunate we had to go through the implementation of Project 2025. Catastrophic wars, economic suffering, everything that we warned against. But I hope it brings generational change. I hope that the Leaving Maga movement will results in us finding not just leaving, but finding connection, commonality and as you said, love and empathy. I'll give you the final word before we go.
- [26:05]
Rich Low
Yeah. Thank you Ben. And anyone who wants information on the memoir, subscribe to our newsletter, follow us on our socials, get information on our Tuesday night support groups which we hold free and online for those who have close ones in Maga. They can get all that information@leaving maga.org drop us a line. We always like to hear from our supporters. And yes, we actually do read all the comments and emails that come in. You can reach us@leavingmaga.org Rich Low just Leaving Maga everyone. Get the book. Thanks Rich Ben, thank you so much. Good to see you.
- [26:42]
Ron Philipowski
You too.
- [26:42]
Ben (Interviewer)
Everybody hit subscribe. Let's get 7 million subscribers.
- [26:45]
Ron Philipowski
Want to stay plugged in? Become a subscriber to our substack@midasplus.com you'll get daily recaps from Ron Philip cows ad free episodes of our podcast and more exclusive content only available@midasplus.com.