Trump Gets Torched by Four-Star General Over War!!

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode: Trump Gets Torched by Four-Star General Over War!!
Date: March 21, 2026
Host: MeidasTouch Network (Ben, Brett & Jordy Meiselas)
Featured Guest (via interview replay): General James "Mad Dog" Mattis (via PBS’s Firing Line with Margaret Hoover)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast centers on a hard-hitting critique by former Defense Secretary and four-star General James "Mad Dog" Mattis of Donald Trump’s handling of the ongoing war in Iran. Drawing from a recent interview on PBS’s Firing Line, the Meiselas brothers play and dissect Mattis's warnings about U.S. foreign policy, the critical role of allies, the resilience of the Iranian regime, and the grave, long-term strategic damage caused by Trump’s approach to America’s global relationships.

The episode is punctuated by pointed analysis, signature banter from the brothers, and a clear, unapologetic support for democracy and international cooperation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. General Mattis’s Credentials and Authority

• [00:00] Host introduction reminds listeners:
  • Mattis is an expert on the Middle East, having served in conflict zones including the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and as commander of CENTCOM.
  • He famously resigned as Trump’s Defense Secretary, citing disagreements over foreign policy.
  • Host: “There’s really no living person more knowledgeable about this stuff than General Mattis.”

2. The Durability of the Iranian Regime

• [03:30] Mattis firmly rejects the idea that Iran's regime will collapse in the short term:
  • Quote: “I do not believe the regime will fall in the near future...I think it is very unlikely that that regime will fall anytime soon. I think we’re going to have to deal with it.” – Gen. Mattis (03:30)
  • He highlights the unpredictability of war but stresses the regime’s resilience and brutal tactics.

3. The Absolute Need for U.S. Alliances

• [04:54] Mattis, pressed on whether the U.S. can succeed in the war without allies (besides Israel):
  • Quote:
    • Margaret Hoover: “So can the United States succeed in this war without allies other than Israel?”
    • Mattis: “No.” (04:54)
  • Mattis: Without trustworthy alliances, the U.S. cannot achieve its ends, particularly against entrenched regimes.
• [05:00] Allies view the U.S. as “unreliable” under Trump.
  • “America is becoming predatory. America is unreliable. They say one thing and they change seven days later or two days later. So there’s a sense that we are not a reliable security partner right now.” – Gen. Mattis (05:00)

4. The Strategic Wreckage of Trump’s Foreign Policy

• [07:18] Mattis predicts it could take 8 to 12 years to repair U.S. credibility with allies:
  • Quote:
    • “There’s a saying about trust. It departs on a horse at a gallop. It comes back at a very slow walk. And I get the sense it’s going to take us 8 to 12 years to restore the levels of trust that the allies believe that we are once again someone they can count on.” – Gen. Mattis (07:18)
  • Suggests the damage may be so deep, full recovery is uncertain.
• Strategic approach as peacekeeper:
  • “A good strategy is an appetite suppressant to war. It is not an appetite increasing tool.” – Gen. Mattis (08:05)
  • Criticizes removing sanctions on Russian oil, saying it undercuts European unity and security interests.

5. Beneficiaries: Russia and China

• [08:50] Mattis notes that Russia and China are directly benefiting from U.S. strategic failings:
  • “China is benefiting from a lot of this and Russia is benefiting militarily because weapons that could have been given to Ukraine are not being given, they’re being used in other places...So right now, China and Russia are probably benefiting from this war.” – Gen. Mattis (08:50)

6. Lack of Clarity and Strategic Purpose

• [13:45] Mattis decries the “murky” objectives behind “Operation Epic Fury” and warns of dangers in undefined military actions:
  • “It is murky right now to understand what we in the military call the commander’s intent. And we’ve heard things like unconditional surrender, we will select the next leader. We’ve heard all sorts of things, frankly, and it’s been murky and it’s hard to articulate an end state that’s achievable.” – Gen. Mattis (13:45)
  • Criticizes Trump for inconsistent goals: “From one minute to the next Donald Trump will be like, all right, we’re done. And on the other hand, like yesterday, he’s like, we’re going to be sending in thousands and thousands of troops.” – Host (11:15)

7. Nature of the Conflict: “Excursion” vs. “Total War”

• [15:51] Mattis: Iran’s regime perceives this as a fight for survival, whereas Trump minimizes U.S. objectives as a “little excursion.”
  • “You have an unarmed population up against a very well armed regime that is fighting a total war right now. Total war. We’re fighting a limited war. The American president a week ago called it a little excursion...But they are fighting for their lives, the mullahs are, because the people probably will kill them if they overthrow them.” – Gen. Mattis (15:51)

8. Dangers of Hoping for “Moderates” and Regime Change

• [15:51] Mattis outlines decades-long U.S. delusion searching for an Iranian “moderate”:
  • “We have seen one administration after another try to find what I call the fruitless pursuit of the Iranian moderate somewhere in that regime. And we haven’t found him yet. Okay? It doesn’t exist.” – Gen. Mattis (15:51)
  • Mattis points to the regime’s willingness to kill its own people as the central predictor of its longevity.

9. Historical Perspective and Strategic Realities

• [17:25] Mattis puts current events in the context of the 1979 revolution, arguing that the core strategic reality in the Middle East remains unchanged despite proxy and nuclear setbacks to Iran.
  • “What happened in 1979...changed everything in the Middle East. In Iran, the Shah falls and this regime...comes in...Whatever comes out of this current war...I think it’s going to include that regime still there that goes back to that fateful year, 1979 in the Middle East.” – Gen. Mattis (17:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the necessity of alliances:

  • “Nations with allies thrive, those without them die.” (paraphrased by interviewer, 04:27)
  • “No.” (Mattis, to whether the US can succeed in Iran without allies besides Israel, 04:54)

• On damage to alliances:

  • “It’s going to take us 8 to 12 years to restore the levels of trust.” (07:18)
  • “America is unreliable.” (05:00)

• On regime resilience:

  • “It would be very unlikely that this regime would break right now.” (12:38)
  • “One of [the CIA’s] indicators outweighs all the rest. Will the regime murder their own people at the industrial level? If they will, they’re going to stay in power.” (15:51)

• On strategic clarity:

  • “It is murky right now to understand...the commander’s intent. And we’ve heard things like unconditional surrender, we will select the next leader...” (13:45)

• On the legacy of 1979:

  • “The war on a strategic level has not changed the overarching framing principle of what we have to deal with in that area. And we will have to deal with it. We can’t walk away.” (17:25)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:30] – Mattis on the regime’s chances of falling
• [04:54] – Absolute need for international allies
• [07:18] – Time needed to rebuild trust with allies
• [08:50] – How China and Russia benefit from U.S. policy
• [13:45] – Mattis critiques the strategic “murkiness” of U.S. operations
• [15:51] – Survival mentality of the Iranian regime; why regime change is unlikely
• [17:25] – The long shadow of the 1979 Iranian Revolution on current events

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Tone & Conclusion

This episode leverages General Mattis’s unimpeachable credentials and blunt candor to deliver a sobering assessment of Trump’s handling of the current war, the fragile state of U.S. alliances, and the likely futility of regime change in Iran. The tone throughout is urgent, analytical, and laced with the MeidasTouch’s blend of directness and brotherly banter:

• Host at the close: “Put simply, what you heard there, I think is an unbiased, unfiltered view of what’s really going on.”

Listeners are left with a crystal-clear takeaway: Strategic alliances and clarity of purpose are non-negotiable pillars of American foreign policy—and both have been gravely jeopardized.

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For listeners seeking a comprehensive understanding of the intersection of U.S. foreign policy, military reality, and political leadership at this critical juncture, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

Donald Trump was just torched by his former defense secretary. General James Mad Dog Mattis served as Donald Trump's Defense Secretary during Trump's first term from 2017 to 2018. And General Mattis, who is a four star general, says that Donald Trump has no plan at all when it comes to this disastrous war in Iran. General Mattis says it will 8 to 12 years to try to rebuild America's relationships with our former allies after Donald Trump eviscerated it by attacking NATO, by attacking our former allies. And General Mattis makes it clear that he believes that this Iranian regime is not going to be toppled, they are not going to crack, and that Donald Trump is utterly failing. Right now, I want to show you what General Mattis said when he appeared on PBS's Firing Line with Margaret Hoover. This deserves to get more attention because let me also be clear, in addition to being a four star retired general, General Mattis served in that region in leadership roles in the Middle east, probably with more experience than any living person today. First off, after the revolution in 1979, General Mattis was in the region. He saw firsthand how the Iranian regime engaged in terrorist attacks throughout the region. He also led troops in the Persian Gulf War, in the war in Afghanistan as well as the Iraq War. He headed the U.S. joint Forces Command and the U.S. central Command CENTCOM from 2010 to 2013, overseeing operations across the Middle east, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Yemen. Then he served as Donald Trump's Defense Secretary. You'll recall that somewhere right around the end of December of 2018, he resigned because he didn't like what he saw Donald Trump doing, foreign policy wise. Then Donald Trump acted like he fired General Mattis. But General Mattis said, nope, I absolutely resign. So let me show you what went down on this PBS program. This first clip I'm going to show you. General Mattis says that he, the regime, the Iranian regime will not fall, that Donald Trump does not have any coherent plans at all, and that we absolutely need allies, we need NATO, we need to have friends in the world. Otherwise, doing anything internationally, engaging in any wars, it's impossible. And again, this comes at a time where earlier today, earlier yesterday, Donald Trump's been posting attacks on NATO. NATO is a paper tiger, right? It comes as Doug Burr Bergam, Donald Trump's Interior Secretary, is saying, ah, it seems like the United States right now is much closer to Russia and other countries in Russia's orbit than to NATO. Watch General Mattis eviscerate Donald Trump. Let's play this clip right here.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

How Would you estimate the likelihood of the regime's falling?

[General James Mattis]

I do not believe the regime will fall in the near future. Now, understand, war is fundamentally unpredictable. Fundamentally, that is part of war. So what I'm saying could be completely reversed in 24 hours. But I think it is very unlikely that that regime will fall anytime soon. I think we're going to have to deal with it. So how do you deal with it? I'd suggest that America has got some of the greatest strengths. Our economy, our education system. We have ways of engaging with the world no other country has. And, yes, we need a very strong military to defend this idea of a democracy. But at the same time, if we don't use all of our strengths and there I would point to allies. Without them, we're not going to get there.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

You say in your memoir, nations with allies thrive, those without them die. Whether we like it or not, we are part of a world that needs allies. And yet President Trump has said, we don't need anybody. We're the strongest nation in the world. So can the United States succeed in this war without allies other than Israel?

[General James Mattis]

No.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

What is your sense of the biggest concerns from our allies right now?

[General James Mattis]

Well, there are many of the same concerns that we hear from our fellow citizens. America is becoming predatory. America is unreliable. They say one thing and they change seven days later or two days later. So there's a sense that we are not a reliable security partner right now. The first time NATO went to war was after we were attacked. And one of the countries that lost as many boys per capita fighting alongside us after America was attacked on 911 was Denmark. And Denmark is, of course, the country that owns Greenland. So when you think of a threat against a NATO ally or when you hear that we're putting tariffs on allies, at the same time we're demanding they increase their defense expenditures, which requires a robust economy, you're seeing a strategic disconnect. And right now, many of the actions we're taking unfortunately mean that we're working against our own strategic outcome at the end. And you can't bring allies on board if they don't trust you. We're going to have to deal with this threat by this aberrant, bizarre, murderous regime in Tehran. And we're going to do it at the end of the day with allies, lots of allies.

[Narrator/Host]

More from General Mattis in this powerful interview with PBS right here, where he talks about how it will take at least 8 to 12 years to try to repair the wreckage of of Donald Trump's wrecking ball to the entire world and it'll probably be even longer than that. We may not be able to recover. General Mattis says, and also he says that Donald Trump is basically a Putin bootlicker and China is benefiting from this as well. Here, play this clip.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

General Mattis, if we are going to deal with the regime that is in place and we are not going to do it without our allies, is there a method or a mechanism for trust rebuilding? Is there a path forward?

[General James Mattis]

Yeah. And you go to the heart of it right there. There's a saying about trust. It departs on a horse at a gallop. It comes back at a very slow walk. And I get the sense it's going to take us 8 to 12 years to restore the levels of trust that the allies believe that we are once again someone they can count on. We've treated them poorly and I think it's going to take a while to recover, but it's going to be by giving our word on something and living up to it and going back to a strategic approach. And a good strategy is an appetite suppressant to war. It is not an appetite increasing

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

tool

[General James Mattis]

because you don't go off and do silly things if you've got a strategy because it sets priorities and you don't do something, for example, reopen Russian oil, take sanctions off Russian oil because you know that's a key problem for Europe right now. You don't do certain things that end up actually causing you more problems down the road. So we're going to have to get back to thinking strategically and giving our word and living up to it.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

You mentioned easing the sanctions on Russian oil. President Zelensky said that that certainly does not help peace and only strengthens Russia's position. It sounds like you agree. How is China reading these actions?

[General James Mattis]

Well, China is benefiting from a lot of this and Russia is benefiting militarily because weapons that could have been given to Ukraine are not being given, they're being used in other places, that sort of thing. Economically, Russia is benefiting. So right now, China and Russia are probably benefiting from this war.

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[Narrator/Host]

More from General Mattis right here saying let's be clear. I've studied this Iranian regime and it is very unlikely that they are going to crack. And also, Donald Trump's purported goals are very muddled and murky, and it's unclear what the hell he even wants. And when you are engaged in warfare, if you are also a student of warfare, if you study at military academies, having very clearly defined objectives, seems like an obvious thing to say, though, that that's very important. And from one minute to the Donald Trump will be like, all right, we're done. And on the other hand, like yesterday, he's like, we're going to be sending in thousands and thousands of troops. Remember yesterday he sent in a huge amount of troops from San Diego. Thousands and thousands. The 86th Airborne Division, heck, they were separately called and Then in addition to other Marine Expeditionary Units that won't even get there until April. So what the hell is the plan here? Play this clip.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

They are not, quote, unquote, not cracking and they are willing to fight to the end. Is it your understanding, based on what you know of the Iranian regime, that it seems plausible that their will is unbroken?

[General James Mattis]

I think it would be very unlikely that this regime would break right now. But like Hemingway's point about how a man went broke gradually and then all at once, you know, it is a very fragile regime in terms of its grip, but it's strong enough with its murder. And all they've told, for example, they've told the Iranian parents, don't let your sons and daughters demonstrate because we will shoot them, we will go after them. So, no, they're not going to go away anywhere right now. I would not think that they're going to break.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

So you've summarized one of your leadership techniques as, and especially on the battlefield, as clearly stating the purpose, sparsely outlining the methods that are to be used, and then explaining the desired end state of any mission. So how do you understand, as a civilian now, the Operation Epic Fury's purpose and desired end state?

[General James Mattis]

As you can see, the lady does her homework. It's murky. It is murky right now to understand what we in the military call the commander's intent. And we've heard things like unconditional surrender, we will select the next leader. We've heard all sorts of things, frankly, and it's been murky and it's hard to articulate an end state that's achievable. For example, as the American president has said, it just takes a couple people to screw up the Gulf because they can get down there in their fishing boats and drop mines in. And Lloyd's of London jacks the insurance rates up and people don't want to send their ships through. And for the American president to say, well, you know, they're just going to have to show guts. Let me tell you, I've been in minefields and I hate them. And every ship can be a mine sweeper once, but that's not the way you want to find the mines, I guarantee you. So right now, yeah, it's pretty confused.

[Narrator/Host]

More from General Mattis right here, talking about how Donald Trump has described what he's doing in Iran, whatever the hell it is, as an excursion by its nature that is limited by whereas the Iranian regime views this as a total war, limited war excursion. That's Trump's definition for Iran. This is about survival. So when you're talking about a regime that's in survival mode and that regime has lots of weapons and the citizenry is unarmed, it's unlikely to topple them. And also you're likely to have an outcome where you have even more extremists within the regime taking power. That's precisely what we're seeing now. Mount Jabba Khomeini, the new Ayatollah. And when the Trump regime and Netanyahu kill a new leader, a more extreme person takes their role. Play this clip.

[General James Mattis]

We have seen one administration after another try to find what I call the fruitless pursuit of the Iranian moderate somewhere in that regime. And we haven't found him yet. Okay? It doesn't exist. This is a regime like if, if the CIA is analyzing the regime to show you how we learn about them, they have a list of what are the indicators of an autocrat staying in power. There's over 70 indicators. And they look at all these things. One of them, one of those indicators outweighs all the rest. Will the regime murder their own people at the industrial level? If they will, they're going to stay in power. You have an unarmed population up against a very well armed regime that is fighting a total war right now. Total war. We're fighting a limited war. The American president a week ago called it a little excursion. But they are fighting for their lives, the mullahs are, because the people probably will kill them if they overthrow them. They're just that angry at them. So they're fighting like that. What have we learned from it? It's going to be a darn difficult problem. A darn difficult problem. I hope we learned it.

[Narrator/Host]

Let me share you this last clip from this interview. Again, a very powerful interview indeed. Let's play it.

[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

Is this a reflection on unpredictability in war?

[General James Mattis]

That and some other things. But what happened in 1979 when this is being filmed is that changed everything in the Middle East. In Iran, the Shah falls and this regime that we're now dealing with comes in some 47 years ago. Whatever it is, the Grand Mosque falls to the nutcases, the political Islamists, what eventually becomes the Sunni side of the terrorist organizations coming out of the Mid East. And so out of that. The question when this war started some couple of weeks ago, were we going to fundamentally change from a strategic point of view, fundamentally change the construct of the Middle East? Israel, using hard power, had basically shattered two of the militias and was there an opportunity now to rock them back so far on their heels that the regime would fall. That obviously has not happened, although it's been defanged in terms of its proxies, in terms of its nuclear program has been set back, but the regime is still there. So basically the war on a strategic level has not changed the overarching framing principle of what we have to deal with in that area. And we will have to deal with it. We can't walk away and say, sorry, we got distracted or we got tired of this. We're going to have to deal with with whatever comes out of this current war. And I think it's going to include that regime still there that goes back to that fateful year, 1979 in the middle East.

[Narrator/Host]

Well, there you have it, folks. I think that was such a critical interview. I mean, there's really no living person more knowledgeable about this stuff than General Mattis. Put simply, what you heard there, I think is an unbiased, unfiltered view of what's really going on. Tell me what you think. Hit subscribe let's get to 7 million subscribers. You may think you're subscribed, but you may not actually be subscribed. So double check. Thank you all so much for watching. Have a wonderful day.

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[Interviewer (Margaret Hoover)]

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