Trump Witness Quickly Collapses Under Cross Exam at Hearing!!

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast

Episode: Trump Witness Quickly Collapses Under Cross Exam at Hearing!!

Date: April 18, 2026

Hosts: Ben, Brett, and Jordy Meiselas

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the explosive congressional hearing with Russ Vogt, Donald Trump’s Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the principal architect of Project 2025. After evading any congressional testimony since the start of Trump’s presidency, Vogt was finally subpoenaed to testify. Armed with prepared MAGA talking points, he faced intense cross-examination from House and Senate Democrats. The Meiselas brothers dissect the hearing, highlighting moments where Vogt’s defenses collapsed, exposing the aggressive and punitive strategies of the Trump administration, especially towards blue states, social programs, and democratic norms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Vogt’s Budget Defense and “Affordability Explosion”

• Vogt initially claimed the Trump administration had engineered an “explosion in affordability” for working Americans, touting tax cuts and economic health.
  • Quote (Russ Vogt, 03:58):

    “I think that's going to lead to an explosion in affordability for the American people.”

2. Accusations of Politically Motivated Funding and Retaliation

• Rep. Becca Balint grilled Vogt about documented instances where OMB had withheld federal funds from blue states as punishment for not supporting Trump, citing multiple court findings of vindictive, unlawful action.

  • Timestamps:

    • Hard cross: [04:55–07:53]
    • Quote (Ballint, 07:08):

      “Are you trying to get revenge on states that did not vote for your boss?”

  • Vogt repeatedly dodged or reframed questions, relying on “mismanagement” narratives and drawing false equivalence with unrelated Biden actions.

3. Vogt’s Ignorance on Key National Spending

• Senator Merkley’s Interrogation: Vogt could not provide even a ballpark figure for the cost of ongoing U.S. war efforts in Iran.

  • Quote (Merkley, 08:31):

    “I would expect you to have pretty good numbers on that. So I'm a little disappointed in that answer.”

• Senator Murray’s Line of Questioning: Highlighted the hypocrisy between claims of fiscal hawkishness and the pursuit of a record-breaking $1.5 trillion defense budget.

  • Quote (Murray, 09:34):

    “So, $1.5 trillion…you count yourself as a spending hawk, and here you are arguing for a gobsmacking $1.5 trillion defense budget.”

• Vogt could not convincingly explain the disparity between massive defense increases and parallel deep cuts to non-defense programs.

4. Impact of Budget Policies on Social Programs

• Congressmember Coleman’s Emotional Appeal ([12:03]): Challenged Vogt on the human cost of slashing USAID, citing over 100,000 child deaths per a Harvard study. Vogt dismissed the study and failed to display empathy.
  • Quote (Coleman, 12:03):

    “What would you say right now to the mothers of the kids who died because of your dismantling of U.S. aid?”

5. Refusal to Use Authority to Resolve Shutdowns

• Senator Kaine ([12:56]): Pressed Vogt on the failure to advocate for passage of the bipartisan DHS funding bill, exposing the political motives behind government shutdowns.
  • Quote (Kaine, 13:31):

    “You had the opportunity to tell the House yesterday to pass a bill that you say you support…you didn’t bring it up. That’s fascinating.”

6. Corporate Tax Evasion

• Congressmember Jayapal ([13:49]): Exposed the failure of the Trump administration's tax policy, pointing out that 88 of America's largest corporations paid zero federal income tax in 2025.

7. Healthcare Cuts and Fraud Allegations

• Congressmember Boyle ([14:42]): Vogt insisted that the 15–17 million Americans losing healthcare under the Trump budget were either “illegals” or fraudsters—without evidence.

  • Quote (Boyle, 16:18):

    “The idea that all of those people…are defrauding the system or are illegal immigrants, that is not supported by any facts whatsoever.”

8. War in Iran and Budget Priorities

• Congresswoman Ballint ([18:14]): Pressed on the $350B earmarked for the war in Iran versus cuts to vital domestic programs.
  • Quote (Ballint, 19:01):

    “How is it that we can continue to spend money on foreign wars and yet we cannot find a solution to the fact that people can't afford health care?”

9. Devastating Cuts to Science, Health, and Consumer Protections

• Senator Merkley ([21:00]): Detailed near-historic funding cuts to NIH, Alzheimer’s, cancer, and scientific research.
• Congressmember Jayapal ([29:12]): Vogt’s plans to “eliminate” the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, leaving Americans exposed to financial predation.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Moment | |---------------|-------------|------------------| | 03:58 | Russ Vogt | “I think that's going to lead to an explosion in affordability for the American people.” | | 07:08 | Rep. Ballint | “Are you trying to get revenge on states that did not vote for your boss?” | | 08:31 | Sen. Merkley | “I would expect you to have pretty good numbers on that. So I'm a little disappointed in that answer.” | | 09:34 | Sen. Murray | “You count yourself as a spending hawk, and here you are arguing for a gobsmacking $1.5 trillion defense budget.” | | 12:03 | Rep. Coleman| “What would you say right now to the mothers of the kids who died because of your dismantling of U.S. aid?” | | 16:18 | Rep. Boyle | “...the idea that all of those people who are about to lose their health care are defrauding the system or are illegal immigrants, that is not supported by any facts whatsoever.” | | 19:01 | Rep. Ballint| “How is it that we can continue to spend money on foreign wars and yet we cannot find a solution to the fact that people can't afford health care?” | | 23:32 | Sen. Merkley| “Is it correct that in your budget you would cut the National Science foundation...by 55%?” | | 28:41 | Rep. Coleman| “If we wanted to eliminate abuse and fraud, we eliminate the President of the United States from the office right now…” | | 29:59 | Rep. Jayapal| “You have a mission to eliminate the CFPB. Why are you protecting big corporations instead of consumers, Mr. Vote?” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:58] Vogt claims “explosion in affordability” in Trump America
• [04:55–07:53] Rep. Ballint exposes politically motivated punishment of blue states
• [08:21–09:39] Vogt falters on national war cost/defense budget (Merkley & Murray)
• [12:03–12:50] Rep. Coleman: human impact of USAID cuts
• [13:49–14:26] Jayapal: Corporate tax evasion under Trump
• [14:42–17:40] Boyle: Mass healthcare cuts excused as fraud
• [18:14–20:10] Ballint & Vogt debate Iran war spending vs. domestic needs
• [21:00–23:34] Merkley: Sharp cuts to scientific and medical research
• [29:12–30:49] Jayapal: Assault on Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

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Analysis and Tone

The MeidasTouch brothers bring their trademark blend of incredulity, passionate advocacy for democratic accountability, and sharp-witted banter to chronicling the hearing. Their tone is direct, sometimes sardonic, and unabashedly critical of Trump-era policies, reserving special contempt for cruelty disguised as fiscal prudence.

“Right, the hawk. I'm a deficit hawk. No, you're not. You're a bunch of Bernie Madoff frauds on steroids is what you are." (Host, 10:20)

They emphasize not only the policy absurdities but also the moral and civic failures of the Trump team—highlighting lost lives, destroyed safeguards, and the targeting of political opponents. Their deconstruction of the hearing is designed to leave listeners both informed and motivated to act.

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Conclusion

The episode serves as a detailed breakdown of how Democratic lawmakers exposed the Trump administration’s punitive and self-serving approach to governance during Russ Vogt’s long-awaited testimony. The discussion shines a harsh light on the administration’s priorities—militarization, political retaliation, and the gutting of safety nets and research—contrasting them with the real-life consequences for everyday Americans.

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For listeners seeking a blend of sharp political insight, biting humor, and clear explanations of the stakes in today’s political battles, this episode is both a summary of a pivotal hearing and a rallying cry against what the hosts describe as a “despicable regime.”

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(Advertisements, promo segments, and non-content sections have been omitted from this summary.)

Transcript

[Russ Vogt]

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[Russ Vogt]

This particular Budget Committee has not. They have been successful in conjunction with the President, United States. I hope that continues. We're in the midst of passing and we passed the extension of the President's tax cuts. Many of those were aimed at working class individuals. They're now going through their first season of seeing what changes that will make on their bottom line. And I think that's going to lead to an explosion in affordability for the American people.

[Narrator/Host]

Then Democratic Congresswoman Ballint went in and she was saying, look, it seems pretty obvious to me that your entire strategy here is to take revenge on blue states and anyone who doesn't vote for Donald Trump. You're using your position as the director of the Office and Management and Budget to punish them and to try to inflict pain. Watch as he tries to squirm and she doesn't let him. Here, play this clip.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Stated $7.6 billion in clean energy grants based on whether the recipient lived in a blue state. Yes or no?

[Russ Vogt]

I don't recall what that judge said, but we have not made the determinations based on what in fact.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Mr. Vote. On January 12, 2026, US Judge Amit Mehta said, quote, defendants meaning you. Mr. Vote. Freely admit that they made grant determination decisions primarily, if not exclusively, based on whether the awardee received resided in a state whose citizens voted for President Trump in 2024. Mr. Vote yes or no. Federal judges said OMB's freeze of $10 billion in childcare and family assistance funding, quote, appeared designed to punish communities that the administration agreed with. Yes or no, was that something that federal judges said about you and your leadership?

[Russ Vogt]

I think the judge's characterization is getting at the degree to which we are focused on states that we think are mismanaged.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Okay. That is not, in fact the case. In fact, U.S. district Judge Trina Thompson found the administration broke the law and froze funds as a politically motivated move disguised as fraud prevention. So your characterization actually is false. Other courts have said that withholding congressionally approved funding is, quote, vindictive and unlawful. Courts have found that freezing funds create, quote, irreparable harm against the American people. And, and the gao, the Government Accountability Office, the watchdog agency that investigates how federal agencies spend taxpayer dollars, has reported that you broke the law multiple times and they have said that you have refused to spend money that was dedicated for Americans. The Constitution gives Congress, Congress the power to spend money and not the President. Mr. Vogt, your actions clearly show that you want to cut federal funds from anyone who didn't vote for Donald Trump. Are you trying to get revenge on states that did not vote for your Voss?

[Russ Vogt]

No, of course not. What's interesting about the question is that Joe Biden withheld oh for goodness sakes.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Can we please bring it back to my question? It was a yes or no question. Are you trying to get revenge on against blue states because they did not support the president? Courts have said that in fact you did do that, that in fact you are being vindictive. In fact you are punishing because of political persuasions. It's not members of Congress who suffer when you do an end run around Congress. That's not what I'm angry about. It's not about you taking the power away from us. It's that it's their money. It's their power of the people, by the people and for the people. The House is closest to the people. So when you do an end run around Congress, you're taking Americans power.

[Narrator/Host]

Next I'll show you Democratic Senator Merkley who says why don't you tell us how expensive this war in Iran has been. Do you know the figures? Do you know how much money the United. Tell us that's your role. You are literally the director of The Office of Management and Budget. How expensive is the war? The American people demand to know. And guess what, Russ? Vote Frozen did not even know how to answer the. I don't know. I can't tell you how much it is here. Play this clip.

[Russ Vogt]

Would I be in the ballpark to

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

say we've already spent at least $50 billion?

[Russ Vogt]

I wouldn't want to make a characterization of that at this point. Okay.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

I would say as the.

[Russ Vogt]

The most knowledgeable person in the executive branch of the budget, I would expect you to have pretty good numbers on that. So I'm a little disappointed in that answer.

[Narrator/Host]

Democratic Senator Murray. Here's what she had to say. Play this clip.

[Democratic Senator Murray]

You and President Trump are asking for $450 billion in new defense spending. To be clear, that is the largest increase since World War II. And that does not include money that you reportedly still plan to request for the war in Iran. What is the total dollar amount requested for defense spending in FY27, including annual appropriations and reconciliation funds?

[Russ Vogt]

1.5 trillion. Senator, a combination between the appropriations and the mandatory. We are trying to increase the amount that you would fund through the appropriations, but we don't want the full increase to have to be borne in the appropriations process.

[Democratic Senator Murray]

So, $1.5 trillion. What is the total dollar amount requested for non defense spending?

[Russ Vogt]

$660 billion.

[Democratic Senator Murray]

Okay. And what is the overall cut to non defense programs that you're 10%.

[Russ Vogt]

$70 billion.

[Democratic Senator Murray]

70 billion. We look at that as about 81 billion, frankly. So let me just say this, Director Vogt, you count yourself as a spending hawk, and here you are arguing for a gobsmacking $1.5 trillion defense budget. I read that you disagreed with the President on that one and a half trillion dollar request, warning him that it would explode the deficit. Did you warn the president or administration officials that spending this much on defense would explode the deficit?

[Russ Vogt]

Senator, I fully support this budget.

[Narrator/Host]

1.5 trillion. Right? These are the people who refer to themselves as I'm a fiscal hawk.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

I'm a hawk.

[Narrator/Host]

Right, the hawk. I'm a deficit hawk. No, you're not. You're a bunch of Bernie Madoff frauds on steroids is what you are. $1.5 trillion to the military. A 40% increase year over year in like a 90% increase from three years ago. What the hell is even going on here?

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[Narrator/Host]

Next up you have Democratic Congressmember Coleman the Take a look at what went down.

[Democratic Congressmember Coleman]

What would you say right now to the mothers of the kids who died because of your dismantling of U.S. aid? Harvard study says there are more than 100,000 of them. Can you give me a quick response to what you would say to those mothers? Just don't talk to me about the study. Talk to me about how you what you would say to the mothers of the children who died.

[Russ Vogt]

Congressman, with great respect, I would just contest that the extent to which institutions that benefit from federal largesse put out studies that say that the world has ended, that the world has not in fact ended well. It's going to cut USAID spending last year to the tune about $8 billion. There was far more that we could have done, Congressman.

[Narrator/Host]

And you have Democratic Senator Kaine going in with some great cross exam. Let's play it.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

There's been some discussion about the bill that the DHS funding bill that the Senate passed unanimously. Now twice the House, the votes are there in the House to pass it. The leadership will not take it up. You were before the House yesterday. Did you encourage the House to finally pass the DHS bill?

[Russ Vogt]

My interaction. We want the bill passed. My interactions yesterday were to remind one side of the aisle, you do want the bill passed? We want the bill passed.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Did you say that during the hearing? Yes.

[Russ Vogt]

I wasn't asked it.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Well, you said a lot of Things during the hearing if it was a

[Russ Vogt]

priority in response to Democratic politicians that were saying that we were responsible for the shutdown.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Hold on.

[Russ Vogt]

Our shutdown.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Hold on. You had the opportunity to tell the House yesterday to pass a bill that you say you support that 100% of the Senate supports and you didn't bring it up. That's fascinating.

[Russ Vogt]

Senator, you had the opportunity to fund DHS without a month shutdown.

[Narrator/Host]

Congresswoman Jayapal did a great job at this point hearing. Play this clip.

[Democratic Congressmember Jayapal]

Do you know, Mr. Vogt, how many of the largest corporations in America paid absolutely nothing in federal income tax in 2025?

[Russ Vogt]

Not off the top of my head. But our view is that the tax policy.

[Democratic Congressmember Jayapal]

Let me, let me just tell you. Let me just tell you, Mr. Vote reclaiming my time. Let me just tell you. The number of corporations, large corporations, that paid absolutely zero in Federal tax was 88, at least that we know of, including Tesla, which paid zero on almost $5.7 billion of income, as well as Coinbase, Citigroup, CVS Health and Palantir.

[Narrator/Host]

Now the Democrat ranking member, meaning the Democrats leader of the Budget Committee who will become the chair if the Democrats take control of the House. Congressmember Boyle, you've seen him on the Midas Touch network a few times. Take a listen to his cross examination. Play this clip.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Said that single piece of legislation adds more to our deficit and debt than any other piece of legislation passed by Congress in American history. In addition to the over $4 trillion it adds to our national debt, it eliminates health care coverage for more than 15 million Americans. According to the CBO, the Kaiser Family foundation says there's actually more than 17 million Americans who will lose their health care. Are they really all according to you. Really? You're going to sit here with a straight face and say they're all illegals. They were all defrauding the system. That's actually your position?

[Russ Vogt]

Yes. With regard to the people that have lost that.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

That's laughable.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm sorry.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

I'll give you a chance to respond.

[Russ Vogt]

A number of issues with regard to your comments there.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Well, wait, let me just.

[Russ Vogt]

Number one, wait, wait.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Reclaiming my time. I just want to be clear. I'm citing. We acknowledge the CBO figure. That's where I'm getting the 15 million from. And the Kaiser Family foundation says 17 million. You're saying none of them are legitimately on this, even though we had one of them actually testify before us?

[Russ Vogt]

I didn't say all of them are illegals. I said there's Also, the benefit of people returning to the workforce enforce because they're able bodied individuals or they should not have been on the system regardless, because of the inability to address fraud in the aftermath of.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Okay, so they're all either illegals or defrauding the system.

[Russ Vogt]

Well, we certainly, that's certainly not a provocative statement that we have fraud all over the country, is it?

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Mr. Randolph, why are I imagine there are fraud in all sorts of private and public sector areas. But the idea that 15 million Americans are about to lose their health care, the single biggest loss of health care in American history, mind you, not even during the Great Depression do 15 million Americans lose their health care coverage. The idea that all of those people who are about to lose their health care are defrauding the system or are illegal immigrants, that is not supported by any facts whatsoever.

[Russ Vogt]

Are now working and getting the benefit of a job with employer sponsored health care coverage. Look, these assessments by CBO and others are often very static.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

I mean, it's right of center groups as well. Well, reclaim my time. I only have a few minutes, so excuse me. But it's not just cbo. I mean right of center groups, left of center groups, nonpartisan groups. You're saying they're all wrong?

[Russ Vogt]

I'm saying that the budget community typically relies on static thinking, static scoring, current law baselines. And so you don't get an accurate picture of the extent to which the reforms that are being made are going to have a dynamic impact with better programs, more health care, for instance, 50 billion.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Well, let me before you get to the friends, I only have a couple minutes.

[Narrator/Host]

Right. Isn't that absurd right there? So that is what they're claiming, that 15 million people or whatever the number are all committing fraud. That's why they had to take away Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security from 15 million people. Because everyone's a fraudster. Says the fraud, criminal war, criminal regime. Donald Trump, a literal felon, a literal fraud, is the guy who look well, I think that anybody on Medicare and Medicaid is committing fraud. These are such sick human beings. More from Congresswoman Ballot. Let's play it now.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

To wasteful government spending, particularly the $350 billion set aside for this. Yes, we war of choice against Iran included in this president's budget. His budget asked for a shocking surge in Pentagon spending up to $1.5 trillion. We have never in the history of this country seen spending like this paid for by slashing health care, education and housing. Donald Trump has said, as my colleagues have said earlier, we're fighting wars here, we can't take care of daycare. Mr. Vote yes or no. Is $350 billion for the war in Iran lowering costs for Americans, those Americans who ask us in every single town hall why they can't afford to live in this country? Is the war lowering costs for Americans?

[Russ Vogt]

It is certainly not defunding childcare. We fully fund childcare in this.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Is it lowering costs for the American people?

[Russ Vogt]

But doesn't that get at the premise of your question?

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

You can find money for illegal wars in Iran, you can find money for all the pet projects of this administration, and yet we can't find money to alleviate the costs of food and housing and gas on the home front, but

[Russ Vogt]

according to you, fully funded childcare, fully funded head start.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

Mr. Mr. Vote. Mr. Vote. With the money that is set aside in this budget, the additional funding for the war in Iran, $350 billion, we could fund the ACA tax credits for 10 years, for a decade. And I can tell you what my constituents want to know. How, how is it that we can continue to spend money on foreign wars and yet we cannot find a solution to the fact that people can't afford health care? And again, in, in closing, I just want to say again, it's we're not so angry because you're taking our power. We're angry because you are taking the people's power. I yield that.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Gentle lady's time has expired.

[Russ Vogt]

If the gentleman wants to respond, I would just say this president has been a person who has campaigned and led for peace and against endless wars.

[Democratic Congresswoman Ballint]

So is it, is it gentleman? Gentleman, is that, is that we're all

[Russ Vogt]

right now and I'm giving that, I'm

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

giving our witnesses the time to respond to your question, and then I'm going to yield five minutes to Mr. Estes. So finish the response uninterrupted and then let's go to Mr.

[Russ Vogt]

The President has also been equally clear that he is not going to allow a nuclear Iran. He is not going to allow them to have nuclear weapons. He is not going to allow them to have missiles and a navy that impacts our national security. And so he is doing what is necessary to keep us safe while at the same time trying to pursue diplomacy so that we can get out of wars and lower those, those costs over time.

[Narrator/Host]

This was a great line of questioning right here about NIH.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Let's play it under your direction, Mr. Vogt. At the National Institutes of Health last year, grants for Alzheimer's and aging research were cut almost 50%, mental health 47% new grants for cancer research 23%. And as I read the budget that you're here presenting today, the Trump regime's response is that medical research has not yet been cut sufficiently. Doesn't your budget propose another 12% cut at the National Institutes of Health?

[Russ Vogt]

Most of what you said is untrue. NIH was not cut at all last year. We proposed a series of reforms to lower the cost. We continue, although not as much to

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

lower Reclaiming my my question to you is, don't you propose to cut the National Institutes of health by another 12%?

[Russ Vogt]

We propose to have a cut to the National Institute of Health.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Thank you, sir.

[Russ Vogt]

Reclaiming my that goes after specific programs.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Yes, sir.

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Thank you.

[Russ Vogt]

Reclaiming my minority health charity in institute.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Reclaiming my time. Mr. Chairman, if the gentle if the gentleman will please yield, he can filibuster when he's in the Senate. What we do know as far as the truth is that there were fewer grants for new cases last year at NIH than at any time in the last 30 years. Is it your feeling in proposing further cuts at NIH that there are just not enough worthwhile projects out there or that we cannot afford to invest more in doing something about Alzheimer's, cancer, Parkinson's, hiv, other dread concerns?

[Russ Vogt]

There are many worthy health investments out there. I think post Covid for an institution that contributed to the pandemic itself with the funding of gain of function research to give that institute $42 trillion, which is more than it got under the COVID pandemic. The kinds of things is very generous. The kinds of things that we're trying to do with the National Institute of Health, indirect cost rates. We don't think when bill gates gives 10% for parkings and administrative reclaiming my time buildings

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

after giving last year fewer grants that at any time in the last 30 years you are proposing further cuts there. And of course, the cuts are not only to medical research. But is it correct that in your budget you would cut the National Science foundation, which has in the past provided grants that helped on artificial intelligence, on laser eye surgery, on MRI technology, among others, that you propose to cut it by 55%?

[Russ Vogt]

We have a sizable cut to National

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Science foundation, yes, over half of the funding.

[Russ Vogt]

But it will not impact our investments on artificial.

[Democratic Senator Merkley]

Well, that's good to know because you may be the only person along with President Trump who believe that. A reading from the director of a consortium of research universities. He says your budget cuts are the equivalent of working in a company that feels like it's on the Verge of bankruptcy. Another one says slow scientific progress threatening the nation's position in the world economy.

[Narrator/Host]

More from Senator Kaine.

[Russ Vogt]

Let's play it over here without a month shutdown.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Second question. I was interested in the revenues in the budget that you've sent over. One revenue in particular interested me was tariffs. What you're assuming for tariffs, you can see that the numbers on tariffs were sort of bumping around at less than 100 billion a year. 100 billion in 2022, 195 billion in 2025 when the tariffs started to kick in. An IEEPA tariffs have been determined to be illegal by the Supreme Court. The IPA tariffs. Next week you're starting to refund 166 billion. So I was interested to see what your tariff projection was going to be. And actually what I see is far from going down as you're refunding illegal tariffs, you're predicting dramatic increases in tariffs. What is President Trump going to tax next?

[Russ Vogt]

Senator, what you're looking at is we had 10 year assumptions for the IEEPA tariffs and those should be shaded a different way. Obviously, the Supreme Court changed our strategy on that and we are going through a process to replace those. But we do not believe that the tariffs, tariffs will be less than.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

So if you're going through the process, tariffs are a tax. I'd like to introduce, Mr. Chair, two documents from the New York Federal Reserve. 90% of the cost of the tariffs last year fell on American consumers and businesses. And another from the Tax foundation. The average in 2025 was a thousand dollar per American tax. Household. If I could introduce.

[Advertiser/Promoter]

Objection.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

So you're going through a process to decide what are you going to tax next? Who are you going to tax next to reach these astronomical tariff numbers?

[Russ Vogt]

We don't think they're a tax on the American people. They have not raised prices.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

90% of the cost is by a tax foundation.

[Russ Vogt]

Yeah, paper that doesn't support tariffs.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

But who are you going to impose the tariffs on next?

[Russ Vogt]

Look, tariffs are imposed on the foreign importers. Right, We've seen that.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

What industry sectors are you going to hobble, do you know?

[Russ Vogt]

It's not hobbling, it's ensuring that we have American meat manufacturers.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

So I'm assuming you don't know, you don't yet know who the next tariffs are going to hit. You're just projecting all this money.

[Russ Vogt]

Our agreements with countries, Senator, have been out there for ever since Liberation Day.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

Liberation Day?

[Democratic Congressmember Boyle]

Yeah.

[Democratic Senator Kaine]

That's the one that you did right before tax day. That took a thousand bucks out of American families pockets. Let me go to the next one

[Narrator/Host]

more from Congressmember Coleman. Let's play it.

[Democratic Congressmember Coleman]

I was just trying to figure out where could I find a needle large enough to burst the bubble that you guys live in. Because you're not living in reality and you're creating a narrative and just because you say it, you think it's true. And so I've sat up here and I've listened to a whole bunch of explanations that don't in any way shape or form relate to reality. I got a couple of questions to ask you, sir. I'm going to start with one that's going to give you a moment to speak and then I'm going to ask you a series of yes and nos. And when I say yes and nos, I want yes and nos. What would you say right now to the mothers of the kids who died because of your dismantling of USAID? Harvard study says there are more than 100,000 of them. Can you give me a quick response to what you would say to those mothers? Just don't talk to me about the study. Talk to me about how you what you would say to the mothers of the children who died.

[Russ Vogt]

Congressman, with great respect, I would just contest that the extent to which institutions that benefit from federal largesse put out studies that say that the world has ended, that the world has not in fact ended well, it's going to cut USAID spending last year to the tune about $8 billion. There was far more that we could have done.

[Democratic Congressmember Coleman]

Congressman, reclaiming my time. If a mother came before you who told you that her child died because she didn't have access to health care or medicine that usually would be available because of the kindness of the United States of America that you and this administration have eliminated, would you have anything of empathy, compassion and humanity to say to her? Would you say to her, I am sorry, that was a mistake.

[Russ Vogt]

I always have empathy for individuals, including those that get improper and false information from the media that pumps this, this false and ignorant information out to the American people.

[Democratic Congressmember Coleman]

You know, I am so sorry to hearing false fraud and abuse from any of my colleagues and even from you. Because if we wanted to eliminate abuse and fraud, we eliminate the President of the United States from the office right now and the rest of the sycophants in his administration that are allowing him to do so many illegal things.

[Narrator/Host]

And more from Congressmember Jaya Paul right here. Let's play this clip.

[Democratic Congressmember Jayapal]

Now let me turn to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau since you're also the Acting director there. This was an agency that was established to protect consumers from financial predation, deception, fraud and abuse from the biggest banks, biggest corporations. And the CFPB has stepped in and really done that work. Under the last administration, CFPB put real money back in consumers Pockets, returned over $21 billion to consumers who were cheated or scammed by big banks, giant corporations. It ordered Wells Fargo to pay over 2 billion and bank of America to pay 2,727 million to consumers who were harmed. But you have a mission to eliminate the CFPB. Why are you protecting big corporations instead of consumers? Mr. Vote?

[Russ Vogt]

I'm not. CFPB caused $350 billion of added costs on consumers.

[Democratic Congressmember Jayapal]

Mr. Vote, you are asking to reduce the CFPB's workforce to just 1/3 of its 2025 level. Which means that the department that oversees the banks and other financial companies that hold trillions of dol, mortgage, auto, credit card and student loan debt would drop from 500 employees to just 77 and the enforcement department would only have 50 workers. What do you have to say to the millions of service members, veterans, older adults and students that are seeing costs rise and now because of your unprecedented rollback of consumer protection staff, have nobody at the agency that is actually policing those big corporations?

[Russ Vogt]

Gentle ladies, time is so tell me

[Narrator/Host]

what you think in the comments below. But I thought good cross examination right there exposed him $1.5 trillion. And just the way he says it so cavalierly that money could be spent on healthcare, making housing more affordable, making education more affordable, making people's lives better. But we're going to spend the money instead buying missiles to blow up elementary schools so that Donald Trump can engage in more war crimes. Hell no. And the American people are fed up with this disgusting despicable regime that frankly, they're not public servants. They hate this country anyway. Tell me what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 7 million.

[Advertiser/Promoter]

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