Trump Witnesses Crumble on Live TV from Cross Exam!!!

Summary

The MeidasTouch Podcast – "Trump Witnesses Crumble on Live TV from Cross Exam!!!"

Date: May 21, 2026
Hosts: Ben, Brett & Jordy Meiselas (MeidasTouch Network)
Theme: Exposing how Trump-aligned officials, nominees, and witnesses falter under rigorous questioning in Congress—showcasing what real accountability looks like on live television.

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Episode Overview

This episode captures dramatic moments as Trump administration officials, judicial nominees, and right-wing witnesses are fiercely cross-examined in Congressional hearings. The Meiselas brothers underscore how, under oath and public scrutiny, these witnesses stumble—revealing the hollowness of their rhetoric and, at times, corrupt underpinnings of their actions. The brothers combine legal and political analysis with their signature wit, offering listeners a front-row seat to these congressional showdowns.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sean Duffy’s Controversial "Great American Road Trip"

• Context: Trump Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is grilled over his reality show road trip, allegedly funded by companies he oversees—a suspected case of pay-for-play and ethical conflict.
• Main Concerns: Senators press Duffy about:
  • Corporate sponsors receiving access or benefits (e.g., events, networking, VIP privileges).
  • The spectacle of a lavish tax-payer and industry-funded vacation while Americans struggle with rising costs.
  • Duffy’s dismissive, at times combative, responses to Senate questioning.

Notable Quotes:

• Sen. Gillibrand to Duffy (03:47):
  "This is what I'm concerned about. You are political and you are using political ways."
• Sen. Gillibrand (06:51-08:19):
  "I don't like the fact that this Great American Vacation reality TV show took days and days of filming. I don't like the fact that it was paid for by companies that you have to oversee... That would be pay for play. It would be 100% illegal. It would be inappropriate on every level and not tolerated."
• Sen. Patty Murray to Duffy (05:12):
  "If I'm an airline executive and I paid a million dollars for this great American road trip, what would I get out of that?"
• Duffy’s Defense (09:28):
  "This was a project... to encourage Americans to see their beautiful country... Experiencing your country through the window of a car is a beautiful thing. It actually unites America."
• Sen. Gillibrand (10:03):
  "But you're responding with platitudes and it's not... it shouldn't be paid for by people that you oversee."

Memorable Moment:
When Duffy tries to justify the trip as nation-uniting, but is repeatedly pressed about the money trail and ethical lapses (09:27–10:37).

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2. Collapsing Testimony: MAGA House Witness on Neo-Nazis

• Witness: A MAGA pundit named Dr. Swan, called to undermine the Southern Poverty Law Center.
• Key Moment: Rep. Moskowitz repeatedly asks if neo-Nazis are supremacists, and Dr. Swan refuses to answer directly—exposing evasiveness and rhetorical games.
• Breakdown: Other panelists answer affirmatively, highlighting Swan's reluctance and deepening embarrassment for the MAGA side.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Moskowitz (14:33):
  "Are Neo Nazis supremacists?"
• Dr. Swan:
  "They're individuals. Some are. And some may be just plain old antisemites."
• Moskowitz (after direct answers from others):
  "Okay, Dr. Swan, that wasn't a trick question for them. I wasn't trying to trip them up. I wasn't using DNC talking points. This is part of the problem."

Memorable Moment:
Moskowitz's final quip about refusing to buy Swan's book because she couldn't answer a basic moral question (15:15).

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3. Jasmine Crockett’s Mic-Drop on White Supremacy and GOP Hypocrisy

• Content: Rep. Jasmine Crockett delivers a powerful speech indicting Republican reluctance to confront white supremacy, referencing specific hate crimes and civil rights history.
• Key Points:
  • Hypocrisy on "law and order" regarding insurrectionists.
  • Historical and current barriers to Black voter participation.
  • GOP efforts to whitewash history and limit civil rights education.

Notable Quote:
Rep. Jasmine Crockett (15:54–17:58):
"You don't want real history taught in our schools because you're afraid that it's going to hurt people's feelings to know that their ancestors were so savage that they would enslave black folk... You don't want them to understand why the 14th Amendment mattered then and it matters today."

Memorable Moment:
Her passionate, unfiltered criticism—“I want them to be ignorant so that they can sit up here and be.” (17:56)

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4. GOP Blocking of "No Rewards for January 6th Rioters" Act

• Context: Rep. Jim McGovern proposes an amendment to stop federal funds from compensating January 6 rioters; Republicans vote it down.
• Insight: Exposes ongoing efforts to shield or reward insurrectionists via legislative maneuvers.

Notable Quote:
Rep. McGovern (18:28):
"This secret slush fund should be an outrage to every American. No matter your politics."

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5. Judicial Nominees Evade Truth on January 6 and the 2020 Election

• Nominees: Matthew Schwartz and Flowers, both up for federal judgeships.
• Cross-examiner: Sen. Richard Blumenthal.
• Test: Both nominees dodge direct questions about the reality of January 6 and who won the 2020 election, using the “Justice Jackson” excuse—raising questions of integrity and independence.

Notable Quotes:

• Sen. Blumenthal (20:07):
  "What makes me angry is not just the insult to the role of this committee, but to our intelligence. Do you really expect us to accept these canned, rehearsed, practiced answers repeated again and again and again by judicial nominees who have an obligation to be truthful?"
• Sen. Blumenthal to Flowers (22:17):
  "I think your failure to answer that question mocks this committee."

Memorable Moment:
Blumenthal’s statement: "Frankly, I know Justice Jackson. You’re no Justice Jackson." (22:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:26-11:58 – Duffy grilled by Senators Gillibrand & Murray: Road trip funding, ethics, and pay-for-play questions.
• 14:16-15:49 – Dr. Swan falters on neo-Nazi questioning by Rep. Moskowitz.
• 15:54-17:58 – Rep. Jasmine Crockett’s searing speech on white supremacy and GOP hypocrisy.
• 18:28-19:23 – Rep. Jim McGovern proposes ban on rewarding insurrectionists; GOP blocks the measure.
• 19:36-24:18 – Judicial nominees Schwartz & Flowers evade direct answers on Jan 6 and the 2020 election; Blumenthal rebukes.

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Overall Tone and Language

The episode’s language is bold, direct, and at times, sharply humorous—mirroring the original tension and candor of the Congressional hearings themselves. The Meiselas brothers emphasize transparency, accountability, and moral clarity in democracy, unafraid to call out obfuscation or evasion by political actors.

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Summary for Listeners

This episode is a tour de force of Congressional accountability, blending real-time political drama with incisive analysis. The MeidasTouch brothers spotlight the consequences of public scrutiny for Trump’s allies—showing how deflections and double-speak collapse under cross-examination. The episode underscores the vital importance of transparency and truth in public service and judicial appointments, resonating with anyone deeply invested in the future of American democracy.

Transcript

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[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Nope, I'm making dinner tonight.

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[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

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[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Are neo Nazis supremacists?

[Ms. Swan]

It depends on which ones. They're individuals.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

I didn't ask you which ones.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Donald Trump's top witnesses collapsed under cross examination before the Senate and in the House of Representatives. One by one, Trump cabinet officials, judicial nominees and MAGA witnesses crashed out on live TV when they were forced to testify under oath. Let me show you what went down. You had Donald Trump's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy responding to allegations that his road trip reality show was funded by millions of dollars from companies that he has oversight over. Watch U.S. senator Gillibrand cross examines Donald Trump. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Let's play this clip.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

I didn't make any money. You are the witness.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

I am not the witness.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

I don't have.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

I don't have any. Well, maybe you should be.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Well, you know what Secretary Duffy.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

$7 million.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Secretary Secretary dropped $70 million. I think you should be telling this

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

committee that goes to ad on television and that's all to you. You spend that money.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

This is what I'm concerned about. You are political and you are using political ways.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

A half a million dollars paid by the trial bar to fly you on a private jet.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

I've never been on a private jet.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Zen Air.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

I don't never been on a private jet.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

462.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

We don't. We don't Members of Congress fly on a.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Yes, Senator.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Not true.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

It is not true. Answer to that.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

You know what, Mr. Secretary?

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Nothing. Your job, it puts your. Your face on television. Your face on television. Your steak dinners, your vacations by the trial bar. I make. We're going to go to Senator recognize

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

you for your question.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Then we had Democratic Senator Murray Cross examining Trump Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy about just how out of touch he is with the American people. Let's play this clip.

[Senator Patty Murray]

So I just. It just. This show is incredibly out of touch with where Americans are. And I echo Senator Gillibrand's concerns that it really raises some serious ethics concerns about who you answer to because the people organizing your show solicited corporate sponsors and promised rewards at each level of funding.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Now, I'd be honest. That's not true.

[Senator Patty Murray]

I'm looking at your thing.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

What you're looking for being a. There's a memo of understanding that says no One gets any benefit for anything they do to participate.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Okay, I have a question. Maybe you can answer it.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Sure.

[Senator Patty Murray]

If I'm an airline executive and I paid a million dollars for this great American road trip, what would I get out of that?

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

From me, nothing.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Well, look, as I said, the deck that is out there says that if you give a million dollars, you get six VIP invitations to receptions, you get to go to roundtables, you get to networking events.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

If someone from, someone from the healthcare industry gives you $2 million, what do they get for it? What do you get?

[Senator Patty Murray]

I do not oversee the f. I do not regular.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

You have jurisdiction.

[Senator Patty Murray]

I do not regulate.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

You have jurisdiction.

[Senator Patty Murray]

I do not.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Million dollars to put your face on TV. To buy steak dinners.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Mr. Secretary.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

To go on vacation.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Listen to my.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

That's what you do.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Mr.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Welcome to Maga. Welcome to Drill, baby, drill. Are you going to drill? Do you want to support lower gas prices? I welcome that. Let's drill then.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Trump Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy tries to talk over Senator Murray here. Let's play this clip.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

You have done everything you can to increase gas prices for Americans and make us buy easier.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Mr. Secretary. This is not.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Trump is lowering the cost of energy.

[Senator Patty Murray]

You are wasting my time.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

You're wasting my time.

[Senator Patty Murray]

Responding with a book of claims that

[Narrator/Commentator]

you've come at us Democrats staying focused on their cross examination. Then Senator Gillibrand continuing the cross examination of Sean Duffy on his road trip show. Remember, Duffy became, I guess somewhat famous because he was on the Real World Road Rules Challenge and then he and his family took this road trip reality show thing that they did, funded by millions of dollars from companies that are under the oversight of the Transportation Department. Corruption at its highest. Here, play this clip.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

I also do not like your great American road trip. And I get you have experience in that. I get you want to promote American how beautiful and amazing it is. I get all the good reasons why you wanted to do that and I get it's time with your family, all those things. I don't like it because right now in New York, people are suffering. They are extremely stressed out. They're stressed out about the cost of gas, which has gone up by 50% under this administration. They're cost about, they're upset about the cost of everyday household goods. They're upset about the cost of groceries and housing and health care. So there's stresses. I don't think they're going to get to go on that great American vacation that they'd like to go on. I think a lot of families are not Actually going on vacation this summer. And when I went and met with a bunch of gas stations across my state just a couple days ago, the cost of well over $4 a gallon in every gas station, $5 a gallon, over $6 a gallon for diesel, it's extremely stressful. And I don't like the fact that this Great American Vacation reality TV show took days and days of filming. I don't like the fact that it was paid for by companies that you have to oversee, companies that you work with. And in our jobs, that would be pay for play. It would be 100% illegal. It would be inappropriate on every level and not tolerated. And in this era where President Trump spending money building a golden ballroom that we don't need, that he's spending a billion dollars a day on bombs that people would far rather he'd be spending on health care, housing, this great American road trip, it doesn't smell right. It may be fast, but it's fast and loose with the rules. I don't like it. I think it's wrong. And I think you should explain to the American people why you should spend your time and why you should be getting a vacation that is paid for by companies that you regulate. I think those things are highly problematic and it makes me extremely anxious because the American people, and New Yorkers in particular, probably can't afford their vacation this summer at all.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And then Transportation Secretary Duffy just tried to tell the Senate committee, you don't really get it. The road trip that I did, sure, it was funded by the industries that I have oversight over, but it was supposed to unite the country. The country wanted me to do this, damn it. No, they didn't. Here, play this clip.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Let's talk about it.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

This was a project, Senator, and I want to encourage Americans to see their beautiful country. And as we can see from this hearing, there's a lot of partisanship in America. This seeing your country, experiencing your country through the window of a car is a beautiful thing. It actually unites America. Maybe spending time with your children is a wonderful experience.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

It is a wonderful thing. But your vacation was paid for by Boeing, Toyota, United Airlines Enterprise, Shell, Royal Caribbean Group, all organizations and companies.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Do you want me to respond to you? Can I respond?

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

But you're responding with platitudes and it's not.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

I'm telling you what the project was. Okay? Two days, quickly, in and out. And I did film the Great American road trip to encourage Americans to travel. I'll answer your question. So this was officially part of America 250 and you all sanctioned America 250. This is an official partner. Oh, no, it's an official partner of America 250. Also, this body told me that I'm supposed to promote tourism and travel and that's what it does as well. Now hold on a second. Now you're making that it shouldn't be

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

paid for by people that you have overseas that you oversee.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Can I respond to that?

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And finally, more from Gillibrand cross examining Duffy right here about how his conduct is just not appropriate at all. Here, let's play this clip.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

We've asked for all states to revoke illegally issued driver's licenses. Every state has complied but New York. And we have tools to pull money from New York.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And we did.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

California even complied.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

But the point is. But Mr. Duffy, Secretary Duffy, I don't mind that you have rules and that you have a different way of doing the department Transportation. What I mind is that you bragged about it and made a joke about it. I'm also bragging it is not appropriate for the secretary to demean an entire state by that joke.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

So we're going to give $8 billion to rebuild Penn Station. Is that a joke?

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

No. But.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

No, you'd welcome that, right? And I've asked for your subways to

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

be cleaner with our tax dollars. You got that money because we give it to you from New Yorkers.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

And then we get a choice where to put it. And you give me that. You give me that discretion.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

We also appropriate money that then you don't grant. So we. We are the appropriators, not you.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

No, I know you.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

We appropriate the money. You're supposed to spend it. Sometimes you choose not to and we have to file lawsuits to get you to spend the money, make allegations.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Can I respond? Do you want me to respond to or just. If you want to take all your time is up. But if you want to just sit and, you know, vent or want me to respond, you let me.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

Let's talk about the great American vacation,

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

the great American road trip.

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[Narrator/Commentator]

Then in the House of Representatives you had Democratic Congress member Moskowitz Cross examining a MAGA witness named Swain. She was there called by the MAGA Republicans in the House of Representatives to attack the Southern Poverty Law Center. She's a right wing MAGA pundit and I want you to watch what happens as Moskowitz cross examines her. Let's play this clip.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Are Neo Nazis supremacists?

[Ms. Swan]

It depends on which ones. They're individuals.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

I didn't ask you which one.

[Ms. Swan]

Some of them are plain.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Ms. Swan, listen, I'm not reading your book if you literally can't answer this question. Are Neo Nazi supremacists?

[Ms. Swan]

They're individuals. Some are. And some may be just plain old antisemites.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

No, no. Neo Nazis are anti Semites. Okay, we're gonna agree there, right?

[Ms. Swan]

Okay.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

But they're also supremacists. Ms. Swan.

[Ms. Swan]

Okay. If you agree.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

No, no, no, no. You don't have to take my word for it. Right? Like they are that's the whole reason they exist. But you all don't believe they are supreme.

[Ms. Swan]

You all don't seem to understand that Hawaiian.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Who's they all? I'm not a neo Nazi. Who's they all? I'm a regular person asking another regular person if we can agree that neo Nazis are supremacists.

[Ms. Swan]

I will agree with you.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Okay. I don't want you to be forced into it.

[Ms. Swan]

I would agree with you, but I suggest you all take the time and read my Cambridge University Press. Listen, that was nominated.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Ms. Swan. Dr. Swan, I can promise you there's no freaking way I'm buying your book when it took two minutes for you to look at me. And how to convince you that neo Nazi.

[Ms. Swan]

Listen, because I don't like the talking points.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

The leftist. This is not a talking point. This is 100 years of history. Watch this. I'm going to show you how easy it is. Mr. Perkins, are Neo Nazis supremacists?

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

They are supremacists.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Thank you, sir. Mr. O'.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Neill. Yes.

[Congressman Asking About Neo-Nazis]

Okay, Dr. Swan. That wasn't a trick question for them. I wasn't trying to trip them up. I wasn't using DNC talking points. This is part of the problem.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Then we heard from Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. She brought the House down. Let's play it.

[Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett]

People that are in organizations that are absolutely. White supremacy organizations should get our tax dollars because they decided to tear apart or attempt to tear apart our democracy. They are being rewarded. These are people that went through our criminal justice system. When people on that side of the aisle claim that they love law and order, they went through it. They either entered pleas of guilty or they were found guilty. And this president, on day one, his priority was not around racism. It was around doing things like letting them go and now putting money in their pockets. We haven't had one hearing on white supremacy yet. When we look at things like the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, the nine worshipers who were murdered at the Mother Emanuel AME Church, the 23 people murdered in 2019 during a shooting at Walmart in El Paso, the 10 people murdered during the 2022 shooting at a grocery store in Buffalo, New York. All of these were murdered by white supremacists who are empowered by the Republican Party's racist rhetoric and policies. This is the same party that wants to drag us back to the Jim Crow era. Some say that there aren't poll taxes, and I guess it's because they're not listing the amount of money but when you tell somebody that they've got to go and pay for something, say like a passport that costs over $100 in order to be able to vote, that looks like a poll tax to me. Some of y' all need to read up on your history books, the very same ones that the Republicans have decided that people should not hear about. Because you don't want real history taught in our schools because you're afraid that it's going to hurt people's feelings to know that their ancestors were so savage that they would enslave black folk. You don't want them to understand why the 14th Amendment mattered then and it matters today. You don't want them to understand that, that when they draw these racist lines and tell black folk that they shouldn't have representation in this country, that it is against the Constitution. I want them to be ignorant so that they can sit up here and be.

[Sean Duffy (Trump Transportation Secretary)]

Your choice expired.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Well, you can't yield because you don't run out of time. Then we heard from Democratic Congress member Jim McGovern who showed how Republicans were voting against an amendment to stop Donald Trump's $1.8 billion slush fund in a case where Trump sued his IRS and Treasury Department to give January 6th insurrectionists who assaulted police officers millions of dollars. Beyond shameful. Let's play this clip.

[Congressman Jim McGovern]

I move the committee add a new section to the rule providing immediate consideration of HR 7711, the no Rewards for January 6th Rioters Act. So this bill would prohibit the use of federal funds to compensate individuals who were prosecuted for their involvement in the attack on the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021. Additionally, my motion would self execute an amendment that would require the Attorney General of the United States to disclose any payments made by the so called anti weaponization fund which was created by the corrupt settlement agreement between Donald Trump and his own administration. This secret slush fund should be an outrage to every American. No matter your politics. I would urge a yes vote on my motion and I yield back.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

The question is on the amendment. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed say no. No.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

The nos have it.

[Senator Kirsten Gillibrand]

The amendments not agreed to.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Then we heard from Donald Trump's judicial nominees. You had a guy by the name of Matthew Schwartz who was a nominee for the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, watch as Senator Blumenthal cross examines him. Let's play this clip.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

The capitol attacked on January 6th.

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

Senator, there was definitely trespass and violence at the Capitol on January 6th and obviously violence against law enforcement or against political actors. Is unacceptable.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

So the Capitol was attacked violently on January 6th. Correct.

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

So, again, Senator, you're asking me to weigh in on sort of public characterizations. What I will say is that the Capitol was. There was trespass and there was violence at the Capitol on January 6th.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

What makes me angry is not just the insult to the role of this committee, but to our intelligence. Do you really expect us to accept these canned, rehearsed, practiced answers repeated again and again and again by judicial nominees who have an obligation to be truthful? And most important, you have an obligation to be independent. You both know better. You both have records of litigating, and you both would expect more of nominees in your position, because above all, a federal judge must be independent without fear or favor. And your fear, apparently, of Donald Trump, so much so that you practice with the White House before you came here and rehearsed this answer and are repeating by road what you've been told to say, in my view, is disqualifying. And I'm really disappointed in both of you because I would have expected better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And we had Senator Blumenthal cross examining another Trump judicial nominee, a guy by the name of flowers. Watch this.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Mr. Flowers, who won the 2020 election?

[Judicial Nominee Flowers]

Senator Blumenthal, I'll incorporate the answer that Justice Jackson gave that Chairman Grassley referred to earlier. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on the outcomes of any election, except to say that, legally speaking, Joe Biden was certified.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Justice Jackson said it would be inappropriate for her as a sitting federal judge. You are not a sitting federal judge. Who won the 2020 election.

[Judicial Nominee Flowers]

Senator, it's long been understood that nominees should abide by the same code of ethics that binds sitting judges. So I do think her example is persuasive, and I tend to follow.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

I think your failure to answer that question mocks this committee. And I will just say to you, she declined to answer based on the code of ethics because at the time, she was a sitting federal judge. And frankly, I know Justice Jackson. You're no Justice Jackson, and I would ask her the same question and insists on her answering it if she were the nominee today. So I'll give you one more chance. Who won the 2020 election, sir?

[Judicial Nominee Flowers]

I'll again adhere to Justice Jackson's precedent.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Mr. Schwartz, who won the 2020 election?

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

So, Senator, I think the answer that Justice Jackson gave is the only legally and ethically correct. You.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

You recognize that you're not a sitting federal judge.

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

Senator, the rules for judicial conduct apply to judicial nominees who are no they don't, Mr. Schwartz.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

And you know better. And you are in fact fooling or trying to fool this committee and the general public. And you've appeared before a lot of distinguished second Circuit judges. I'm willing to bet you know they would not answer the question this way. Who won the popular vote, Mr. Schwartz, in the 2020 election?

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

So, Senator, again, consistent with the answer that Justice Jackson and other priorities.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Factual question, Mr. Schwartz, it's a matter of public record. You wouldn't answer the question in this way if you were before a judge, would you?

[Judicial Nominee Matthew Schwartz]

Senator, sitting here as a judicial nominee, I'm bound by the codes of conduct and I can't answer that question in the way you want me to because the only legally and ethically correct answer is the one that prior nominees have given, which is that Joe Biden was certified as president in 2020.

[Narrator/Commentator]

There you have it, folks. Let me know what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 7 million subscribers. Thanks everybody. So much for watching. Double check that you're subscribed. You may think that you're subscribed, but you may not actually be subscribed.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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