← The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
Black Ops, Big Money: Insights From Covert US Intelligence Operator Daniel Stinson
00:29:30
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- [00:00]
A
When you are looking to build the best team, what do you look for?
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B
Does he have a certain honor and a certain code about them that I can appreciate? Can I trust them with my life? Because this may come down to a life or death situation.
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C
Resilient, fearless, unshakable. Our guest today is a US Marine turned intelligence operative who has spent decades as a contractor for the US Government, the Department of Defense and the CIA. His work has placed him on the front lines of global security efforts, teaming up with other special ops groups like the Navy SEALs, Delta Force and the Marines.
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B
That's why I was made. That's why I'm here. I'm supposed to be a protector, supposed to be a defender, and that's what I do.
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C
Early in his career, he carried out special operations during the Bosnian war. Yugoslavia's crisis is spreading fast. And in the years since, he served the United States everywhere from Haiti to North Africa to the Middle East. After September 11, 2001, he was called in to support covert operations in Afghanistan.
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B
We're at war. We will find those who did it and we'll bring them to justice.
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C
He participated in missions that ranged from capturing terrorists to combating human trafficking. Decades later in 2021, when Kabul fell.
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B
The new report from the Pentagon tonight. After its investigation into the horrific blast.
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C
At the Kabul airport, Daniel helped to acquire planes in a joint effort to evacuate 17,000 civilians but the hands of the Taliban. Most recently, he founded the One God foundation with a mission to support veterans at home and end human trafficking abroad.
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B
Fate has driven me everywhere.
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C
Get ready. This conversation will change the way you think about courage, resilience and honor.
- [01:38]
A
All right, guys. Welcome back to the Mellow Millionaire. Today I got a very special guest and this dude is a badass. His name is Daniel Stinson, former U.S. marine and. And also in the reserves from 1982 to 1999. Fun facts certified in six languages. His call signer nickname, Santa Six. I love that. I could see that. Daniel, it's such a pleasure to have you here, man. It's seriously. And I appreciate the vodka. That was super cool.
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, well, thanks. Thanks for having me here. Happy to be here. Honored, actually.
- [02:10]
A
Yeah, we're going to do it. The DoD hires you as a government contractor to perform jobs that assign high level military such as Navy SEALs. Most of us see top secret missions only in the movies. I happened to meet Robert o' Neal a couple times. He's a badass. You know, and the events that I was at. You're not allowed to swear on stage. They're very careful. This dude. Every other word was F bomb. And I loved it. And everybody that you can't get mad at a soldier that killed bin Laden, but I'm sure you got stories for that too. But what's it like in real life being part of these secret missions?
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B
Well, we'd get a call late at night and I'd go into my closet, which was actually a skiff, and call up the secret. No, I'm bullshitting. It's just like it's business, right? So the US government is a huge corporation that doesn't make any money, which is amazing. They just spend money, right? So they issue contracts. And the contract could be simple. It could be, hey, we need toilet seats. Or we need hammers or logistics stuff. We need supplies for food, for bandages, bullets, or we need assistance in operations. Support contractors have always been part of the US military. Always back again in the Clinton administration. They broke it down and they said, hey, we want more war fighters to be able to do war fighting and more of the support jobs and other jobs to go to contracting. Simple. So they'll contract the intelligence out. Intelligence, operations. They'll contract out their logistics, support, transportation, a million one different things. So the DoD throws out a request for proposal. You're familiar with that, right? You throw out an rfp, about six companies will sit there and try and answer it and put the best value and the best technical aspect to it, and the government will make a decision. Boom, you get the contract. There you go. The classified ones, which is pretty much all I've worked on. I held a top secret clearance since 1982 and it went inactive in 2019. So for that entire time, I've held a top secret SCI clearance with access to different programs.
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A
What are some hero habits? What part of your routine sets you apart from the rest? I'm a big fan of habits, rituals, ways to get your day started, obviously, make your bed, stuff like that. What do you think are some of your routines that separate you from the rest?
- [04:40]
B
Just separate probably from 98% of the population. I think I have OCD. Not too sure. But I have this what if then mentality in everything I do and love. So what if this happens? Then what am I going to do? And I turned that into for situation awareness for me. Like, what if I'm walking down this road and two guys jump out with weapons? What if I'm driving and my car gets in an accident? What if, then that. What if, then that. So I do that constantly, all day, all the time. I'm Awake. I have what if then scenarios running through my head. Wow. Constantly. It's frustrating, but it's great because then I've had them happen where these what if scenarios do occur. What if I get ambushed walking back to or trying to get back to my base camp? Boom. I get ambushed. So I had it already worked it out.
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A
You worked it out in your head?
- [05:33]
B
Yeah. So there's that right there. And I have this habit. I'll walk into a room and I'll start assessing people in the room immediately, who's a threat, who's in danger, who's carrying a weapon. And I just glance over the crowd and assess everybody there.
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A
Do you walk into, like, a baseball game now? Like that?
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B
I don't go in big crowds.
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A
You don't go in big crowds?
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B
My wife tried to take me to Disneyland and I freaked out. Didn't freak out. But I'm like, I'm going to stay over here. You guys go on all the rides?
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A
Yeah. One of your jobs in the 90s, you got sent to Bosnia. Walk me through what happens when you land in a foreign country for a mission.
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B
So. So again, I do this stupid thing. If this, then that. If this, then that, right? I have a US Passport, and I have an Irish passport cover Republic of Ireland, not that northern thing. And I slip my passport into that. Right? Because you're American, you're always going to be a bigger target, more favorable target for a lot of things. You're going to have more money, you're going to do stupid shit, blah, blah, blah, get the American. And then I walk in and I'll go to pick up my luggage, go into a little store. I'll buy a couple bottles of, say, Orangina or something with glass bottles, and I'll put them in the bag and tie the bag up. Now I have an improvised weapon I can smack someone with, Change some money into their local money, grab a local map if they have one, and then grab a SIM card or a throwaway phone and automatically program in my numbers that I have to before I even walk out the door. I'll watch the people. I'll buy a local paper, even if I don't speak the language. And I'll just sit there with the paper, study the map, study the people in my environment. And then I'll go out and take the cab I want to take because I've got the map, I know where I'm supposed to go. And if this guy starts taking trips somewhere else, I'll be like, nah, go up this way, take A left over here and direct them be like, oh, you've been here before. So now I'm not a soft target.
- [07:31]
A
Have you ever been in a situation where it didn't go. I mean it sounds like you've been in a lot of them. Have you ever had to smack anybody over with some orange juice?
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B
Yeah, yeah, but.
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A
But being in the civilian world doing the private business, but not really because you were still had your, your license to be like bid on all this stuff. How much of it was business? How much of it was capitalism? I mean, I guess my buddies all. I went to get my master's degree from U of A lot of them work at Raytheon. And I talked to one of them and he goes, dude, he goes, it's the greatest thing in the world. We raise our prices 20% every year. No one else can make the shit we make. And they just pay it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
No questions asked. And I don't know that's going to be the future, but I think they're starting to clean things up. And look, any money spent, you should. I like to run things like a business personally. But how much of your life has been learning negotiating business tactics?
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B
I came back from Bosnia and I started a business with other guys. Co owner of a company. We had contracts with the US government, with the CIA, with nsa, with the Marine Corps. And we provided equipment, training and operational support. And again, civilians are not normally operators. Operators are very special even within the tier unit, even within joint Special Operations Command. Not everybody there is an operator. It's kind of important distinction for guys from the community. Operators are the guys that will kick in the doors and do the job. Rub o' Neill those types. But behind that, as with everything, logistics wags the tail of everything they do. They may be the best in the world, but you've got to have all the support guys behind you, the communications guys, transportation guys. People are getting you the bullets. People are doing all these things to get you on the X so you can accomplish your mission.
- [09:19]
A
How do you get to be able to bid on that kind of stuff?
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B
Well, if it's a classified contract, you need to have a clearance and your company needs to have a clearance. And then you have to have the top people who can respond to that. The government's going to go out at a minimum of three people have to bid.
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A
Right.
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B
Or it's a sole source. I've gotten a couple of those myself too. Where I'm the only one that can do this job effectively because of my skills, experience and who I'M working with. So they give you a sole source contract direct to you. You know, it's just like bit like Raytheon. They bid against say Lockheed Martin or General Dynamics or whomever else, Northrop Grumman, they all throw their bids in. It's competitive pricing, technical aspect and managerial aspect of a contract. The government will pick it fair. Yeah. And then you end up, you know, one ends up with the contract and rocking is it.
- [10:11]
A
So if someone said, hey, I'm in the military right now, I got a cousin in the Navy, really good kid, he wants to go into business, would you say, considering he has the military background, to think about going into something like this or would you looking back, is it a lucrative industry once you.
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B
Get your things dialed in the military industrial complex?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yes.
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A
How do you get people to follow you? We talk a little bit about hiring the best on your team, but I think true leadership is about leading from up front. Leaders eat last. There's a lot of different things I could say about it, but I'll never ask you to do something I wouldn't do myself. Obviously in the military as you roll up the rankings, you can't go roll up your sleeves because you're needed to make high level decisions. But what do you think makes and defines a leader then?
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B
You gotta respect the people that work for you. But respect is earned and it's earned both ways. I think if a leader steps in there and they go, hey, you see this? I'm a captain, major, colonel, general, whatever, great. I don't have to respect you as the man, but I can respect the rank and the position you're sitting in. President of the United States is a perfect example. I've worked in the military and government contract. I've worked under both sides of the aisle. I don't have to respect the man, I have to respect the position they're in.
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A
Right.
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B
It's really great though as a good leader to be able to translate that down to me. So I respect the person as well as the position.
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A
So after 9 11, a decorated army colonel, I believe that was Colonel Bob.
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B
Yep.
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A
Called you into his operations chief assisting the US in global war on terror. You arrived in Afghanistan early in 2002 and these missions spanned many, many years in other countries. What are some of the craziest missions that you've been on?
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B
Right after 911 Bob called me and I had already I was doing work as an independent contractor for another government agency, traveling around the world, doing training, people advise and assist stuff. Bob calls me, tells me Hey, I got this job for you. Come on out. You still get your clearances? I'm like, yeah. So, yeah, then we started traveling. South America, Central America, Europe, Indonesia real quick, hitting some spots to take care of people. And then Afghanistan popped up. They needed some support. So I'm like, all right, Went over there, found out what they wanted, told them how I could fix that for them, how I could solve their problem, and went to Afghanistan. And that was a trip.
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A
So what was your mission in Afghanistan?
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B
So my job is not to be in a uniform and hanging around with military guys. It's impossible for me to get my job done if I did that right. I was a businessman, and I'm just trying to run a business and help people and get their support.
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A
You know, you've worked with so many different. You've seen what the military, the best of the best, look like. I just spent some time with Jocko Willink in Southern California, and my job is to identify winners. What I found out was 80% of people that graduate high school don't pass the physical test to even get in the military, which is sad. But moral of the story is I look for eye contact, I look for tonality, I look for smiles, I look for confidence when belief in yourself. People that are competitive, that like to win, that hate to lose, that like to continue to practice till they're the best. I think these traits kind of carry over as anything as a winner. When you are looking for to build a team and you want to build the best team, what do you look for?
- [13:42]
B
When I was doing my thing, it was, I got to look at a guy again. Does he have a certain honor and a certain code about them that I can appreciate? Can I trust him with my life? Because this may come down to a life or death situation where I have to be able to know that that person is going to be there for me no matter what. And then can they operate independently? If you and I are out doing our job and then something happens to you, can I continue on and do that job the two of us are supposed to do? That's important. And if not, then I don't need you.
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A
So I'm on a lot of stages, fortunately. I just. I ask everybody, I go, how many of you guys have more than 10 people that work directly for you or in your company? Most hands go up in the room. And I say, you know, I say, would you bet their. Their future on these people? So will everybody at your company? Would you bet your future? Because that's what you're doing. And if you're betting the future, why. And you don't believe they're the best, why are they still here? And you'd be surprised how many people keep people just because they're like, well, if I lose this person, I might be back in the truck or whatever it might be. And I just. I just have no tolerance for like. I think it's important to identify winners in business, especially because if you're running all these missions and operations, you need to be able to spot a team that you could win with.
- [14:59]
B
Correct. Especially in. For us, it was high stress environments by yourself. So we were non attributable to the US Government. In other words, we were just out there as businessmen doing that job. And that's just one. That's what I did from 2002 to 2007. That one program.
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A
Yep.
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B
And there's other programs. I worked, other jobs. I did guys you can trust. When I went to Afghanistan, I hired this young kid. His name was aziz. He was 20 years old. We first got into Afghanistan. We're setting things up, and our job was, you know, we got to do logistics, transportation all over Afghanistan. So I need to drive from Kabul down south, if you will. How do I get down there? Afghanistan is very tribal. So you can't just drive to someone else's territory because you have permission of this warlord. So Aziz thinks about it. He goes home, tells to his dad, he comes back, brother, I have this guy. And Aziz sounded like he's stoned all the time. It was really cool. There's this guy, he's the head of the Koochi tribe. And the Koochi tribe is a tribe of like 3 million people that live on both sides of the border, Afghanistan and Pakistan. He sets up the meeting. We drive this guy's house. So my partner and I go inside and we sit with him. We start talking. He's in his suit. He loosens his tie and he says, so what are you guys, CIA? Dea, FBI? What are you? I'm like, no, we're none of those, man. I'm a businessman. He goes, yeah, whatever. I'm trying to get money and jobs to your people. After a long discussion, he says, yeah, we can do that. Come here in two days and we'll go down and we'll visit him. We go to his house. He goes, all right, come on. And he jumps in the driver's seat, and I jump in the front passenger seat. My partner sits behind him in case he has to take control of the situation. Boom. We start heading off now we're driving through these switchbacks, through this village. Crowded and crowded again. More and more Afghans with weapons up on the roofs, in the alleyways, sitting outside, every weapon imaginable. Vehicles parked there. They call them technicals, and they have the 12.7 disc machine gun. We drive up this one big building. It's a compound, right? Big, huge walls. We go inside. We go in this huge. Like a castle, huge building. And we start going down into the basement, which doesn't bode well for my emotional health either. We get down there in a big open room, well lit, and there's kids, and they're rolling out the plastic tablecloths and setting up pillows all around so that we can eat. Ah, cool. Everybody sits down. And then I have an Afghan village elder sitting on my left. And then this fellow comes in, big, huge guy, big beard. He comes in and sits next to that fellow. So he's too over for me now. We start talking. Food served. We start eating. Everyone's eating, Passing the food trays around. All right, this is how we do business. You got to tell a funny story first. So you tell a funny story. That guy tells a funny story. They kind of like dad jokes. Comes all the way around. I got to come over the dad joke, if you will. Everything's done. They get up. Everybody leaves. I turn to the coochie guy. I'm like, what the. What's that, man? I didn't get an answer. He goes, we'll get an answer. Don't worry about it. Cool. We go outside, get in the vehicles. We're heading out. And as we're heading out through the big gates, there's a knock in the vehicle. Over to the driver's side. Guy gets behind me, and these two start talking as we're driving. He says, yes, they will allow you to drive your trucks up and down this main road from Kabul down to this area, but you cannot go near the road that's over by the mountains. That road is for his men. And if his men find you or your trucks over by where their road is, they will stop your vehicles, take everything you have, and kill your men. Are you okay with that? I'm like, but tell him this. If I catch any of his men on my road in their trucks, then we will kill them, and we'll take everything they have. And the coochie guy goes, you don't want to say that. I'm like, yeah, I do. I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden, my arms, which are down here, are wrapped this guy reaches around the seat, and he wraps both of his arms around my chest and the seat. He starts shaking the seat and in my ear. I feel his beard against my face and my ear. He's like, really deep, like if you had a barrel like that. He's shaking the seat. I can't even move him, thinking, shoot him. Shoot him. At least he's not going to slit my throat, because I know where his hands are. He turns to the coochie guy. He says, this guy has Pashtunwali. This guy has honor. Tell him I agree. We stop. He gets out, and three Taliban vehicles pull up on either side of us with his fighters in it that I didn't even see because all the dust that was billowing behind us. He gets out, gets in his vehicle, and he drives off. 2002. I forget when. Bergdahl. Do you remember that name? Bergdahl. Bo Bergdahl.
- [20:20]
A
Yep.
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B
And the Obama administration traded him for five Taliban leaders out of Gitmo. Yep. I'm drinking a coffee in my living room, watching tv, cussing about the fact that we just traded Bergdahl for these guys. I'm like, oh. Oh, shit. And there's the five pictures. I go, hey, baby, come here. I call my wife in. I'm like, see that second guy right there from the left? That was one of them. That's the guy that was shaking me. You were in a car with the head of the Taliban in that region. I'm like, he hugged me. So those are some of the things we got involved in. Right? Trusting yourself, trusting your partner. Go out, get the job done, and have confidence. We can get through anything.
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A
Oh, man. You've had some close calls.
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B
The Bosnia work, or is actually Croatia, if you want to hear that one. Business. Right? So there I am. I'm running this huge acquisition cell. There's a fellow who's a former army. US army, captain, Special Forces. But he used to be the intelligence officer for Tudumin during the war. He was actually wanted by the US Government. Because he did that, you can't be an active US military person, then go serve another military. He becomes the head of the Japanya mob, which is the mafia, the Russian mafia in that area. Big guy, about 6 foot 6. Spoke, obviously perfect English and really good Russian, whole bit. And he has mobsters with him, always set up. And my offices were in the Intercontinental Hotel in Zagreb. We put out requests for proposals, and they come back to my acquisition and procurement team. Well, I find that all of the. After about two months, all the proposals are being responded to by one company. And the name of the company was H, U M I N T, all capital letters. I'm like, who is this? So I write HUMINT on a whiteboard because I want to talk to my staff about it. Like, we got to fix this. How many contracts is HUMINT getting? All of them. Well, that's freaking wrong. One of the reasons we're here is so we can help prop up the local businesses and help people right in their economy. They just had a war. So I'm like, all right, we're going to have a meeting. We're going to talk about it. When he came in my office, paced around screaming and yell at me. This is a six foot six, like, almost 300 pound guy screaming at me, sitting there like, okay, sit down, Bob. Let's work out a percentage of how much business you get, how much business the rest of Croatia can get. So we had some negotiations and broke it down. And did I bust a deal with him? Yes, I did. Bob leaves. That night, we're having dinner. Bob comes over to my table. His bodyguards kick my employees away from the table. And Bob goes, sits down. He says, so Dan Stenson, United States Marine Corps. He goes, do you like shooting guns? I'm like, when? I have to, Bob. He goes, but you like him. I'm like, yeah. He goes, how about you and I, tomorrow morning we'll go shooting. Would you like to do that? You can't back down when you get man threatened. So I'm like, yeah, Bob. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, yeah, Bob. He goes, all right, we'll have coffee and croissant tomorrow morning and then we'll go on out. I'm like, roger that. Next morning, we're sitting there having our espressos and eating our croissants. Two Mercedes up, armored Mercedes SUVs pull up. We go out there, get in the back. The second one, Bob and I, we drive out to the quarry. So we pull up, quarry's to our left. We go up. Bob and I go up to the front. My back is to the quarry. He busts out a bottle of slvica, which is a peach brandy and a bowl of salt and a loaf of bread. Break off the bread, dip it in the salt, eat it and do a shot. There's only two times when you do that in that culture. Funerals and weddings. No one was getting married there. So I'm like, damn it. And as guys start unloading weapons, ammunition, they start loading magazines. As they do, they're speaking in Croatian, Serbian, which is very similar to Russian about, I wonder who Bob's going to let kill him. I want to shoot his eyes out. And they're all talking, and they look at me and they smile and they laugh and they wave as they're loading magazines. Thing is, I spoke Russian fluently at the time, so I understood everything they were saying. Everything. Man, I was scared. Bob said, okay, Dan, are you ready? And I said, bob, whoever you have, shoot me. Just make sure they shoot me below my neck so that my beloved mother can kiss my lips while I'm in the coffin. And all of his guys are like, whoa. They look and they start freaking laughing because they realize that I knew everything they said.
- [25:02]
A
You said that in Russian?
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B
Yeah, in Russian. And Bob goes, ah, yeah, duh, Gavorusski. And he comes around, puts his arm around, and he starts walking me towards the quarry, the hill. I figure, this is it. He's just going to draw, block me right in the head, shakes me, and he goes, you know, I'm not going to kill you today. I'm like, really? He goes, you got big balls. He says, you know everything those guys are saying about you not going to kill me. He goes, not today. I'm like, all right, thanks, Bob. He goes, you still want to shoot? I have to go to shoot, right? So we went back and we did the whole day shooting. It was a good day. And driving back, he hands me across the bench seat and he goes, here. It was a Scorpion machine pistol with three magazines loaded. He goes, here, I want you to have this. I'm like, Bob, I'm a U.S. government rep. I can't have that. I push it back. He goes, I want you to have this. I get it.
- [26:02]
A
I'll take it.
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B
Yeah. I'm not gonna kill you today. I want you to have this. Yeah. So, yeah, that was great.
- [26:10]
A
Oh, my gosh, I love these stories.
- [26:11]
B
Business negotiations.
- [26:13]
A
That's a great story. I think you had me at the edge of my seat. So we're gonna do this rapid fire game. Special ops or special flops. I'll name a movie, and you tell if it's the real deal, why or why not.
- [26:27]
B
Okay.
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A
Guy Ritchie's the Covenant.
- [26:32]
B
It's entertaining. How's that entertaining? Some of the things he did actually would happen.
- [26:40]
A
What about Black Hawk Down?
- [26:42]
B
Black Hawk Down. One of the best combat movies they have. That's about as real as you can get the representation of what it's like when people are shooting at you and you have to shoot at them. And the terror Like Private Ryan is another outstanding one. Black Hawk Don was by far a really fantastic movie.
- [27:03]
A
If someone wants to reach out to you, Daniel, what's the best way to do that?
- [27:07]
B
It depends on what they want, right? If they want me to work for them and do things, they can hit me up on my company email and it's ravengroupinternational.com okay, just RGI ravengroupinternational.com if they're interested in supporting our nonprofit, it's the one God. It's the number one GodFoundation.org and what we do with that is we help the oppressed around the world. The evacuation, Afghanistan. I worked in helping people out of Haiti. It was just down there last summer guarding orphanage against the gangs. That's where we got arrested at the Dominican border. Also helping veterans in everything they do in anti human trafficking support. So those are the three pillars of the One God Foundation.
- [27:58]
A
Does the way I close this out is I'm going to give you the floor to say whatever you want to say to the listeners and end it for us.
- [28:05]
B
Thank you for letting me be here and a chance to talk. People say, well, you're like Jason Bourne. I'm like more like Jason Boring. I just do stuff. So for anybody who out there who watches this and thinks about the special ops community or, it's great. Serving our nation is amazing. This is the best nation in the entire world. Everywhere I've been all over the world. I love coming back to America.
- [28:34]
A
Well, this is really good, Daniel, thanks again.
- [28:36]
B
Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
- [28:37]
A
All right, thank you.
- [28:39]
C
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. Are leaders born or are they trained?
- [28:53]
A
Look, I've got a lot of leaders that work for me. People are always asking for leadership roles.
- [28:57]
C
That are going to be great at communication.
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A
They're going to be great at asking questions.
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C
You gotta be great at taking notes.
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A
And leadership is, you're not born with it, you're taught it. You're taught to listen to people, figure out their needs, their wants, and it grows over time.
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C
Great communication within the company is the major, major thing. So somebody works for me.
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A
They ask for responsibility. They want to manage other people, but they got to figure out a way to have other people winning.
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C
Their number one goal is to lead from up front. Leaders eat last and that's it, guys. We'll talk to you next week.