← The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
Criminally Good Business Advice with Ex-Mobster Michael Franzese
00:38:30
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- [00:01]
A
Look, I've been extremely blessed. I have my freedom and I have a life. All my former associates dead or in prison.
- [00:08]
B
What do the Mafia teach you about business?
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A
Number one, I recognize a good opportunity. And number two, I was able to put the right people in place and motivate them to do the right job.
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B
Ambitious, iconic, powerful. Our guest today is a living legend who spent 15 years as one of the wealthiest and most feared mobsters in America. The FBI says you're a member of.
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A
The Colombo Mafia family. Like I said, the FBI can allege and say whatever they like.
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B
Son of the infamous Sonny Francis, who was an underboss of the Colombo crime family in New York, Michael wasn't just raised in the life. He was the crown prince of the criminal underworld. Francis was ordered to pay nearly $15 million in fines for his conviction on racketeering and tax conspiracy. At just 35, he was earning millions of dollars a week on a mob scheme that defrauded the federal government out of hundreds of millions of dollars.
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A
It was the golden era of the Mob.
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B
By the 1980s, he had become the youngest and most profitable capo in Mafia history, outsmarting law enforcement, rival families, even the irs.
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A
I know more about this life than anybody.
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B
His life was the inspiration behind iconic characters and moments from Goodfellas and Mikey Francese. That guy. Yeah, I want to see him. The Godfather.
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A
It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.
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B
And the Sopranos. There was a time in my life when being with the Tony Soprano crew was all I ever dreamed of. But his power had a price. Michael Franchise is behind bars tonight. After 18 arrests and a three year sentence in solitary confinement, Michael decided to turn his life around. Transforming from tough mafioso prince to legit businessman, author and Internet personality.
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A
Did you kill anybody?
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B
Since leaving the Mafia, he's been open about the day to day realities of being a mobster and he details his experience in his books Blood Covenant. I'll make you an offer you can't refuse, and Mafia democracy. This conversation will change the way you think about legacy, power and self transformation. Hey, guys, welcome back to the Mellow Millionaire. Today I got an amazing guest. I'm really looking forward to this amazing speaker. Quite the story. A different story that we've never heard before. We've got Michael Francis here. Michael is a former mobster who was a captain in the Colombo crime family in New York City. A son of the notorious mobster Sonny Francis. And after being in prison 18 times, Michael transformed his life and left the mob. Now he's the Best selling author of Blood Covenant. And I'll make you an offer you can't refuse. The insider business tips from a former mob boss. Thank you for being here today.
- [02:50]
A
Thanks for having me.
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B
What's one of the biggest misconceptions about people in the Mafia?
- [02:56]
A
You know, I think, you know, there are many misconceptions about the life, you know, and the brotherhood and all of this. And we can go through them one by one. But the movies only capture a portion of what the life is really all about. Quite often you see people that are not very bright, I would say, which is really totally the opposite of most of the guys that I knew that were pretty intelligent, that if they weren't in that life, they would have made it in a legitimate world. I'll give you a glaring mistake. I would say, let's take the Sopranos. Everybody knows it. People ask me, michael, how authentic was that? And it was a good show. Don't get me wrong. Good show, good series. But they said, how realistic was Tony Soprano? My answer is always the same. If a mob boss was ever visiting a psychiatrist, he'd be in the trunk of his car by the end of the week along with the psychiatrist. That would never happen. So things like that would never happen. But there really is a solid family aspect to that life. There really is a great level of respect. At least the life is built on respect. As a matter of fact, disrespect gets you killed in that life or, you know, serious consequences. There is loyalty, but there is a lot of broken loyalty, you know, so, you know, and I can go on and on, Thomas, but there's just. The movies don't do it justice.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah. I think one of the biggest stories that I remember you talking about was your childhood growing up and your father. Can you just describe how your childhood was like and what kind of led you to this life?
- [04:34]
A
It was turbulent because my dad was extremely high profile. I always called him the John gotti of the 60s because he was major target of law enforcement. Always in the media, always being arrested, going to trial. I mean, I grew up like that. My dad was in and out of jail going on trial. Law enforcement tactics against organized crime, very different back then than they are today. Today, everything's very covert. Undercover informants, high tech surveillance equipment. You can be under investigation today and not really know about it until it's too late. But back in our day, they wanted you to know about it for a period. I would say 10 years when I'm growing up in Brooklyn, later on Long Island My dad's under investigation from seven, eight, nine different agencies. FBI, IRS, Queen Detective, Brooklyn DA. They all had cars parked around my house 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They had us cornered on all sides. We would leave to go anywhere as a family. We had a parade of law enforcement vehicles following us. I got into many scrapes with them. I hated them because I always looked at them as the enemy. So, you know, it was very turbulent in that regard. I saw my dad getting arrested so many times, you know, bullhorns in the morning, 6am, walking him out of the house. So we went through a lot of that. And it had an impact.
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B
Yeah, no, it definitely changed as a kid. Boy and his father. I can't even explain that relationship. But being a kid, it's not really fair to a kid to be growing up around that.
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A
It's hard, you know. And listen, quite honestly, my brothers and sisters, they all suffered mightily over it. I'm the only one that came out of it, really. My brother was a drug addict for 25 years. My kid sister died of an overdose of drugs. My younger sister, younger than her. She was never emotionally stable. She died young, 40 years old. My mother was a half a basket case at times. 33 years without her husband. Cause my dad did a lot of prison time. So the whole family was really negatively impacted as a result. And of course I entered the life, you know, so. And that wasn't the original plan for me. I was gonna be a doctor. Yeah. My dad wanted me to go to school. But, you know, things changed when he got a 50 year prison sentence when I was 18 years old. And life changed dramatically for me at that point.
- [06:55]
B
When you decided that school wasn't for you and you talked to your father, how did that conversation go down?
- [07:05]
A
My dad was doing his. Just went away on his 50 year sentence. And Joe Colombo, who was the boss of our family, who I knew well, knew all his sons, he kind of took me under his wing. He was like a mentor of mine. We loved him, he loved us. And you know, I met a lot of my dad's friends, but differently than I had known them before, you know, because now they were talking to me differently. Not going to school, trying to help my dad get out of a death sentence. And they said, if you don't help your father, he's going to die in prison. My father was 50 when he got a 50 year prison sentence. So add 50 on top of 50. He figured he's going to die in there, right? So I lose interest in School, Because I said, I got another 10 years of school. I'm not going anymore. And he was disappointed because that's what he wanted for me. He wanted to keep me out of the life. You know, he said, you got a head on your shoulders. You can be the first professional in a family. I said, forget it, it's over. Not gonna let you die in prison. So it was during that meeting in Leavenworth when he said, okay, but if you're gonna be on the street, I want you on the street. The right way, in his mind, the right way is to become a member of his life. So he proposed me for membership. You know, when you get into that life, you can't just go up to somebody and say, I'd like to join. Somebody has to propose, you, vouch for you, say you have what it takes. In my case was my father, which is not abnormal. There's a lot of nepotism in that life. You know, fathers bring their sons in, their relatives, whatever, and that's how it started for me. And I was 20, 21 years old. There's kind of two divisions of people in that life. I'll give you kind of an example. You're either a racketeer or you're a gangster. Here's the difference. Racketeers figured out a way they knew how to use the life to benefit them in business, and they were entrepreneurial in that regard. I would have to consider myself a racketeer because in a Colombo family, our family, one of the five New York mafia families, we had 115 made guys, guys that actually took the oath. Out of that 115, 20 of us were real earners. We were making the money. Right. The other 95 who had a no show job, who was running a little numbers business, they didn't know how to use the life to benefit them. Who was stealing, robbing, whatever, maybe a little drug deal on the side, they weren't earning money. So if you're a gangster, you couldn't be a racketeer because you just didn't know how to be one. But if you're a racketeer, you also gotta be a gangster because you're gonna be called upon to do certain things. So. But did they protect the racketeers a little bit more? Yeah, because. Because we were bringing the money in. No organization, whether legit or illegit, works without money. That's the bottom line. You gotta support it. You know that. So I figured out how to use that life to my advantage, both legitimately and illegally. But you Know, I will say this, my targets were always. I always aimed high. Where's the money? Well, the money are in banks, money are insurance companies, money's in the federal government. Let me see how I can work them. And so I got involved in all those three industries. When I say involved, I took advantage of them as best I could and made a lot of money as a result. And again, when I say I figured out how to use the life, it doesn't mean you have to muscle everybody. Sometimes, Thomas, I walk in the door, people know who I am. I don't have to say too much. You present yourself a certain way, you speak a certain way, you carry yourself a certain way, you, they get the message. Especially if you're in New York where a lot of mob guys are there, people know who you are. You know, if you can carry yourself that way, you can do well.
- [10:38]
B
Out of the five families, what sets the Colombo family apart? What was the difference?
- [10:44]
A
Unfortunately, we were one of the more warring families. We had three wars in our family in my lifetime, and we were one of the smaller families. We had 115 guys. Bonanno's had about 115. Lucchese is about the same. But the Genovese and the Gambino family had 250. So they were more wealthy than we were, they were more business orientated than we were. We had a lot of, I don't want to say tougher guys, but we had a lot of more street guys, so we were in that category. I would ask my boss, how come these guys got 100 more guys than we do? He said, well, we look for quality and not quantity. I don't know how right that was, but anyway. But you know, it was a lot of tough guys in my crew.
- [11:31]
B
What did the Mafia teach you about business?
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A
You know, I would just say for me it was how to recognize a good opportunity, number one. And number two, because trust was such a big deal, you know, how to put the right people in place, have a certain amount of trust in them, and then motivate them to do the right job. You know, I've said this many times. People used to say, michael, you're a brilliant businessman. You've gotten so many successful operations in your life. And I said, thank you, but I'm not a brilliant businessman, you know, I said, but my talent was twofold. Number one, I recognize a good opportunity. And number two, I was able to put the right people in place and motivate them to do the right job. And that's where my Success came in, you know, And I always say, do what you do best, delegate the rest and learn how to motivate them, make people happy, make them committed to the work, make them want to do the job, have them invested and treat them right. And you said this earlier on, you know, you treat your people right.
- [12:31]
B
I say, look, if anybody wants a raise, you know the best way to do it is, look, Tommy, I've looked at your operation. I see some weaknesses. Number one, I could increase your booking rate. You're not getting a review on every job. I could help you the jobs that you don't sell. I'll tell you what, out of every $100 I make you, do you think you could cut me 10 of that?
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A
Perfect. That's.
- [12:50]
B
There's no way to say no to that. How do you say, of course, hey, would you mind sharing if I get. If I. If I do this job really well for you, instead of saying, I think I deserve, that's the worst way to go to anybody that say I, I deserve.
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A
Well, it's good. You know, an example, too, we had a guy, we have a lot of ambassadors in our business going out selling wine. We give them incentive, right?
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B
Yeah. They're like an affiliate.
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A
Yeah. So one guy comes to me and he says, look, I can do X amount of things for you. He said, would you put a cap on what I could earn? I said, why would I do that? I said, I want you to earn as much as you can. You're going to work on commission, make as much money as you can for yourself. Because I'm earning. You know, last year we, at this time, we had 400 accounts. Today we have 3300 accounts.
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B
Holy crap.
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A
That's what this program has done for us in the past year. So making people earn, you know, why would I put a cap on your earnings? If you're earning commission, that means you're making more money for me. Make as much money as you want, want you to earn.
- [13:43]
B
So what I did is I formed an equity incentive program. Every private equity company does profit units. Every public traded company does, you know, stock options. They don't teach small blue collar people this, but when you do an equity incentive program, you can get the top cfo, coo, you can start getting the all the best people on because they got a stake in the outcome, right? And here's the deal. Equity, the valuation of the company. I, I don't care. I've never logged in to my payroll system in the last five years. I've never logged into the bank account where my money goes because I'm building the enterprise value of this company. And when you start giving people the real outcome is when you sell a business. And when you get used to selling businesses, never again. And every business I've ever invested in will not have a five year plan to exit. Doesn't mean I can't roll equity into the next deal. Doesn't mean we can't go 5x. That's. But you're talking about how to make hundreds of millions of dollars very, very quickly. It's just a multiple of ebitda, right? And during COVID they deemed that we were essential when all the movie theaters, all the nail salons, the bowling alleys, the hotels were closing down. They needed us. We're blue collar guys and I'm proud to be a blue collar guy.
- [14:48]
A
No, no. Heck, anything having to do with home repair or maintenance or anything like that, you're essential.
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B
Oh yeah. And we're not, you know, AI is not going to be replacing us anytime soon.
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A
No, heck no.
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B
Let's talk about this gasoline. Let's just walk through because this is the most important thing. I mean, you're just, you're flowing through a lot of money at the time. How did that all come together and what did that look like? Just an overview.
- [15:11]
A
You know, I backed into it. There was a guy out in Long island who had a small petroleum company. He was selling oil and gas and he came to me for help because there was a couple of guys from another family that were shaking him down. So I was kind of the guy on Long island at that time. And he came to me for help. Initially I chased him because I found out some things about him that I wasn't crazy about. But he was very persistent. He was an Italian guy. He kept coming back and finally one day he said, please sit down with me. I have a germ of an idea that I think with your help we can really make it big. I said, tell me about it. His germ of an idea was defrauding the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline. She gave me the idea and I hated the government at that point. So I said, look, I'm going to get involved with you. I said, let's start a new company. I don't want to be involved in your company and we'll give it a shot. I was able to get the two guys that were shaking him down to back off and we go into business together. Well, within two weeks of this company, I had put somebody to watch this guy his name was Larry. And I said, I don't know him. Well, stay with him, watch him every day. Let's see what this operation is all about. Well, about two and a half, three weeks later, he comes to my house. This guy was a butcher, right? Big scar over his head. So every Saturday he used to bring me meat to my house. So this Saturday morning he comes and he's got a box on his shoulder. And I looked at him, I answered the door and I said, what are we having a party? I don't know about it. He said, hey chief, it ain't a party. He says, and this ain't meat. Come in the kitchen. We go in the kitchen and he puts the box down. Thomas, he opens it up. $320,000 in cash. Smelled like gasoline, right? I didn't care what it smelled like. He said, this is the first week or two takes in the gas business. So I said this guy's for real. So we took that and I grew over an eight year period, almost eight years, I grew that 320,000. We were selling a half a billion gallons of gas a month, taken down 20, 30, 40 cents a gallon, whatever the market would bear at that time. Cause the federal tax at that time was 9 cents a gallon, state local was between 25 and 30 cents. You had almost 40 cents. A lot of money.
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B
And by the way, what was a gallon of gas back then?
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A
A dollar? Yeah, yeah. And you know, I had over 300 gas stations I either owned or operated. And we were selling gas to both my own stations and branded stations too, because we were giving them such a discount because we were working on the. And we were pulling down between 8, 10, 12, $15 million a week depended upon how much we sold during that week and what we sold it for. And I don't think there was anything like that since the days of prohibition. And basically, Thomas, for what we were doing, it was very clean, very difficult for the government to wrap their hands around. They couldn't understand what they were doing, what we were doing. They knew we were doing something, they didn't know how we were doing it. Cuz we had a pretty good strategy.
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B
So Vanity Fair once said you were the biggest earners in the mafia since Al Capone. Is it true that at one point you were making about a million bucks a week? I could do the math here, 40 cents on half a billion.
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A
But we were bringing into our operation, you know, depending upon the week and what we sold for, one week could have been 5 million, 8 million, 12 million. It all Depended. But we were bringing in millions a week, without a doubt. And that. And that went on for when we got to that point. It was probably about five years worth of that.
- [18:46]
B
Hey, guys, pausing here to do the math for you on this gas business Michael was running. So he said 5 to 12 million a week. Multiply that by 52 weeks in a year. That's 1.3 to $3 billion total.
- [19:01]
A
Understand this, too. I had legitimate business also. I had two car dealerships. I had a Mazda and a Chevrolet dealership. I had a production company, film production company. I had a couple of restaurants that I owned, a couple of video stores. At that time was big, so I had some legitimate fronts. But at the time, I bought a jet plane and I was transporting money to different places. I mean, the government knows this. I took a plea and a lot of stuff that I was doing. So we were bringing a lot of cash to different places, also wiring money to different places and keeping what I needed here.
- [19:34]
B
If you're wiring all the money to all these different places, you got these offshore accounts. I mean, how does the Fed really know that you didn't get gold bars and put them somewhere or, like, have this contingency plan?
- [19:46]
A
The way they know is somebody tells them, right? In my case, eventually I went down because this fellow Larry, that came to me, became an informant, and he cooperated with the government. And this is how this thing collapsed. But, you know, listen, today they're a lot more sophisticated. It would be more difficult to run this operation today because the federal government, they got their hands in everything, everywhere. They know what's going on. You gotta be very sophisticated and careful in order to get away with anything.
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B
So we're gonna do a little segment where I share statements about the Mafia and you tell me fact or fiction.
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A
Okay.
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B
And you could put a little sentence on top of it. So you have to be a made man to join the Mafia?
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A
Well, to join the Mafia, you gotta get made, to put it that way. You gotta take the oath and there's a recruit period to prove yourself worthy of taking the oath. So. Yes.
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B
And so there's people affiliated that aren't Italian associates. Associates. Okay.
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A
But they're not made.
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B
Okay. Just like in Goodfellas, the mob had a rule against killing a made man without permission from the boss. True or false?
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A
True.
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B
Just five Mafia families ruled New York City and still do. Let's go through them real quick.
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A
Lucchese, Bonanno, Genovese, Colombo and Gambino.
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B
All right, These mob expressions from the movies are used in real life, going to the mattress, feeding the lizards, painting houses. What are some of the codes in the mafia that you guys would. I guess sleeping with the fish or swim with the fish.
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A
Swim with the fish is that's. That's a true statement. Feeding the lizard. Never heard of that. Going to the mattresses. True. Forget about it. True. Yeah. And the other one you mentioned, painting houses. No, that was at Frank Sheehan's book about, you know, I painted house. Not true.
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B
The. The Mafia controlled Frank Sinatra.
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A
Absolutely not true. Associated Friends didn't control him. No, not true.
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B
So if you break omerta, your family gets killed.
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A
Not true. You can get killed, not your family.
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B
The FBI actually used lines from the Sopranos as evidence in the real life mob trials.
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A
I heard that they did, yeah.
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B
And you were referencing Goodfellas. Does Goodfellas portray Henry Hill accurately?
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A
No. Henry Hill never looked so good as he did in Goodfellas.
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B
What. What makes you more nervous, a courthouse or a police officer?
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A
Courthouse, yeah. Police you can deal with sometimes. Courthouse I don't want to.
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B
When it comes to politicians, judges, chief of police, detectives. You know, you see these stories where they're all paid off. In New York, I think it was kind of notorious for, you know, you could juice to the wheels a little bit. Was that something you were involved in or no? How does that work?
- [22:53]
A
I had 18 licenses that I needed. Wholesale license to sell gasoline. How am I gonna get 18 licenses? I had political connections. I was paying a guy off to get me a license. Couldn't have got him on my own. And understand this too. We had 750 made guys comprised all five families. Approximately 750. We all grew up around the same places in New York. We grew up with guys who later became police officers. Guys in our family became cops. We had neighbors that became cops or politicians. We had those relationships built in. So were we able to use them? Yeah. Did these guys run from us? No, they ran to us. You know, one thing with political politicians, you gotta understand what are two things they want. They very simple. They want votes and they want money. We control the unions. So what do the unions have for you? They have votes and they have huge pension funds that can provide money for you and your campaigns. So they didn't run away from us. They ran to us. So we had those relationships and we used them properly. More guys collapsed than you would believe.
- [24:03]
B
The goalpost always moves. I mean, there's a good chance here that that won't even go to net worth. But let's just pretend it's a billion dollars. You know, you'd be like, shouldn't you just be happy with that? But I'm like, well, this Tiger woods quit golfing. When he hits a Grand Slam, does his mom say, hey, you've already accomplished enough, you're done. Or do you want to build a legacy? I'm sure a guy like you that wants to continue to compete, be in the game, whatever that is, you want to have a purpose. So what do you say to somebody like, when's enough, enough?
- [24:33]
A
For me, it's all about legacy. Yeah, you know, I've had some success. You could always do more. And yeah, I'm still reaching for the stars if I can not because I want to get that star, because that's just how I am. You know, I just keep going, you know, to do the best you can. But right now, to me, I honestly believe, look, I've been extremely blessed. I have my freedom and I have a life. All my former associates dead or in prison, every single one of them. I'm the only one that outlasted them. Right. So I believe that for those who have been given much, much is expected in return. So my legacy right now, I just started a platform recently, a membership platform, and I want to create a community of people because we've lost that in this country to a big degree. We've lost it. We have a lot of divisiveness in this country that started from the top, trickles down to the bottom. People are very divided. I've never seen this in my whole lifetime, the division that we're seeing now. So I want to bring back this sense of community. So I created this platform and, and I put a lot of resources in there. Leadership, how to be a boss, a lot of personal resources in there and bringing people together, like minded people that are now helping one another also. And it's becoming very successful. People are really, really enjoying it and getting a lot out of it. So to me, I'm trying to build this as my legacy. When I'm gone, what are people gonna say? Well, he did the right thing, brought people together.
- [25:57]
B
No, it's great. And I think I blame the media. Like, look, if you get the ratings, you turn people against each other. You could read the same exact story from two different narratives and it completely changes everything. And like, look left or right, you're still a bird. What's a piece of game changing advice you wish you knew in your 20s?
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A
I knew a lot in my 20s because I had to learn pretty quick. But game changing advice? Well, you Know, Tom, honestly, the things that I knew back then, I've carried with me through my current life right now. And these were things that my father taught me. My father was a very wise man, and he taught me some things that were game changers for me, saved my life in many ways. He said, always be the last person to judge somebody, to pass judgment on someone, because in this life, people are going to remember how you judge somebody, and when your time comes, they're gonna judge you the same way. So be hesitant, no matter what. Don't condemn people right away. Be a good listener. He said, before you speak, make sure you listen to what somebody has to say and know what you're talking about. You know, things like that I've carried with me, you know, into my life, and it's helped me my whole life. You know, one thing that I started to learn at an early age, and I capitalized later on, was networking. Yeah. So important. Making people like you, presenting yourself in the right way. Don't burn bridges. You know, things like that. And the networking, very important, because I learned that a little bit later in life, and it really helped me later on.
- [27:31]
B
You know, we got this thing we always say, is your network is your net worth?
- [27:34]
A
Yeah.
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B
And if you meet the right people, it's who, not how.
- [27:37]
A
That's right.
- [27:38]
B
Instead of figuring out how to do something, figuring out the right person to connect with. And Dale Carnegie wrote a book, how to Win Friends and Influence People. It's on my wall. But it's. You listen with two ears. You don't talk as much. You respect your elders. Simple little things that people forget about. If what is a millionaire habit that's in your routine that sets you apart from the rest.
- [28:01]
A
I create structure and routine in my life, and it's been very valuable to me. Even in prison, I had routine and structure that helped me. And I did eight years, you know, worrying about essential things in your life, Number one, your health, your physical fitness, very, very important. Nutrition, all of that's important. It's part of, I think, success, because you want longevity in life and you want to live quality life. Family, extremely important. Making enough time for them. You know, Tommy, I don't know if you experienced this. I have so many guys that are successful in business, and they come to me because their family life is falling apart. And you ask them the same question. Well, how much time do you devote to your family? Well, I take care of them. I say, I didn't ask you that. How much time do you devote your family, your time, not Your money, your time. Money doesn't buy everything, doesn't seal relationships the way they should be. And so many people have the wrong answer, they don't know. Well, that's why your relationship has fallen apart. Your family is falling apart for that very reason. So putting things in the proper perspective, in the proper order, having the right priorities in life has been, I think, a millionaire's routine. And if you do that and you're a millionaire, then you're going to have success all around, priorities in the right place.
- [29:21]
B
If you had to start over with $10 million tomorrow, I don't know where you're at today, but you got $10 million in the account.
- [29:27]
A
Why?
- [29:27]
B
What are you doing?
- [29:28]
A
I'd be back in the wine business like I am now. Yeah. If I had 10, well, $10 million at this stage of my life, you know, I'm getting up there in years. Let's put it this way. I'm not as aggressive as I once was. I'm a little bit more relaxed than I was. I was very aggressive in my youth and. Well, not only my youth, but up till a few years ago. But I. Honestly, Tommy, because of what I seen in Wall street and what I've experienced in Wall street, had a lot of guys around me working stocks and penny stocks and all that. I'm leery. I'm very careful in things like that. I don't get involved in things that I don't know and I don't know.
- [30:06]
B
Well, that's good. I like that answer. Can you just talk about the turning point and when the final straw, the straw that broke the camel's back. What made you turn it all, give it all up?
- [30:17]
A
I do five years in prison. I'm out on parole for 13 months. I got everybody mad at me. I got people on the street mad at me. I walked away from life. They want to kill me. My father's upset with me for walking away. Government's trying to make a major witness out of me. They're upset with me because I wouldn't play a game with them. And so I violate my parole. Feds are extremely upset with me. Violate my parole, throw me back. I'm out 13 months. After I do the five years, I'm walking out of a bank in Brentwood, California. Fifteen agents slap the cuffs on me. Boom. Go to my house, clean us out. I had cash in the house, took everything, drove away my car, went to my bank, leaned all my bank accounts. Devastating, right unexpected. So they throw me in. They're taking me down to the Lockup in la ready to transport me back to Brooklyn in the morning. Francis, we're done with you. We don't want you to cooperate. You're playing a game with us. We took everything you got. You're never going to see the street again. We're done with you. And they throw me in solitary. It was the first night. I'm a guy that my whole life believed, no matter what the situation is, I'm going to handle. Don't worry about it. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. And I still feel that way to a large degree. But that night, I was out of answers. I said, they took everything I got. I'm married five years to this woman. We got two little babies. She was 20 years old when I married her, 27 years old. Now I'm going to lose the girl I did all of this for. She's not going to wait for me forever. I said, I'm done. I said, they want to put me away forever. I had no answers. All right, I won't get into all the detail. I've said it before. But a prison guard handed me a Bible that night, and it started me on my journey. I spent 29 months and seven days in solitary. And during that time.
- [32:03]
B
Wait, how long?
- [32:04]
A
29 months and 7 days. You. You count the hours when you're in solitary? You know, 20, 29 months, 29 months. Almost three years and seven days. And I can tell you the hours. And it was during that time that I challenged God. I said, you know what, God? I followed my father blindly into a life, and look where it got me. I love my dad. That's why I'm here. I said, I took a blood oath, surrendered my life to Cosa Nostra, and I was a serious mob guy who wanted to be the best possible mob guy I could be. That's how I do things. I said, look where it turned out. I said, why do I gotta follow you? Prove it to me. Show me something. Give me something. If I'm gonna die in here, give me something. And I started my journey that night. And that was a big turning point for me that night. Because desperation and hopelessness drives you to do certain things. Hopelessness. I don't care what anybody says. Worst emotion you can feel for somebody like you or me. When you think you can handle anything, and all of a sudden you got nothing in front of you, you can't handle the thing, your life is just over. There's no worse feeling than that, Tommy. I hope you never experience that. But I'm telling you, there's nothing worse. I was devastated that night. And I'll tell you how bad it was. And I don't mind admitting it now. I wasn't suicidal that night. But honestly, there was a point that night when I wanted to close my eyes and not wake up because it was too painful to think about my future. I visited my dad. 25 years, I watched my whole family fall apart. Same thing's gonna happen with my wife. She's gonna leave me. I was done. I just said, take me. I wanna live. I snapped out of it pretty quick, but it was a bad feeling. And sometimes you gotta hit bottom. You gotta hit bottom before you start to go up and you start to say, okay. And I say this. I would have never. I don't believe I would have ever become a Christian had I remained on the street. Because I was too much in control of my own life. You know, I just walked away from the mob. Can't do that. Whoever did that publicly, people die for that. But I did it. I said, who's gonna hurt me? I said, I got this down. I know what I'm doing. Right. I got people at bay. I got the government at bay. I got it handled. And then, boom. Got nothing.
- [34:24]
B
Every minute is like an hour. I can't imagine.
- [34:27]
A
Oh. I mean, you know what it is? It's one long day. Nothing changes. It's one long day. You say it's the same routine. Nothing ever changes. I developed a healthy fear of hell being in that hole.
- [34:42]
B
Oh, wow. Yeah.
- [34:44]
A
I said, if this is what it's like, separation from everybody that I love, my family, endless agony like this, I don't want any part of it. So a fear of something motivates you to look. It's just like what they say, you know, fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom. Well, yeah, that's true.
- [35:00]
B
So to close this out, I'll just say so. Tell us a little bit about your books here.
- [35:09]
A
This is my autobiography, Blood Covenant and Mafia Democracy. If people want to know our system of government, you'll find it in this book. And I think it's never been more appropriate than what we're dealing with now. And the government is so much like the mob. And one last thing. I want to mention our wine.
- [35:28]
B
Yeah. Which we can talk about this here, this camera here.
- [35:31]
A
But like I said, I think I can recognize a good opportunity. I've been drinking wine since I'm 10 years old because I'm Italian. My grandfather used to make it in his basement in Brooklyn and serve it to us when we were kids, right? So three years ago, I get involved in this business. This wine is from Armenia. And the story behind it is when Noah's ark landed and the flood subsided, it landed at the foot of Mount Ararat. New civilization. First vineyards were Armenia. Yeah, in Armenia. They were planted there. We now have non alcoholic wine, which Walmart just picked up and put it in eight states. They love it. They love the concept. We took our original Pinot noir and we extracted the alcohol out of it. So the taste is still there. And everyone that's tasted it said, man, this is like real wine. And I think this is the next big thing in the industry. And I will tell you this, the wine industry has been a little bit down right now. And we've been on the upscale because we do things differently out of the box. And like I said, we had 400 accounts last year. Right now we're at 3,300 and growing. And so we're excited about it. I'm very excited about it. This is gonna be my next big gas business, but legit. And so we're real happy with it.
- [36:44]
B
So if someone wants to get ahold of you, Michael, they're inspired by you. What's the best way to do that?
- [36:48]
A
You know my website, michaelfrancise.com, but I'm all over social media, you know, YouTube rumble, all the platforms, Instagram X. It's the best way to get me. If anybody wants the wine, it's FranzeSwine.com and for our community, which I'm really excited about, Tommy. And you know, anytime you can talk about it. Cause we're really bringing people together. And like I said, for me, that's legacy. And you're not breaking the bank getting involved. We're not looking to get people financially. We're really looking to make this happen. And we're putting so much effort and so many resources in here that are helping people both professionally and in their personal life. It's michaelfrancis.com family because it's all about family and community.
- [37:29]
B
Well, listen, I appreciate you being here and let's go hang out. Thanks for listening, guys. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always. We're gonna close it out with the Tommy truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. A lot of people say, I want to be an owner. I don't want to work a 9 to 5. I don't want to be an employee, but the business owns them. They work nights, weekends, they miss their kids recital, and they never got out of the rat race just because they have an LLC and an ein. They say, now I'm a business owner, but they don't make money. They'd be better off making a bigger paycheck and putting the work jacket off when they get home and having real vacations. People are always like, yeah, I want to do my own thing. I'm like, you know the response? Most businesses don't make it. When you own a business, you're responsible for everything. And if you don't understand leadership and aren't willing to read and continue learning and always be working on yourself, business ownership is not right for you. And that's it, guys. We'll talk to you next week.