← The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
Gary Vee's No BS Advice for Building a Business Empire
00:37:21
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- [00:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Sometimes people, they're like, don't listen to this guy. Trust fund baby. They make up all sorts of shit. They have no idea my story. I work 22 to 34 every minute, fucking 100 hours a week, seven days a week in a liquor store and started Vaynermedia in a fucking conference room in another company because I had no money to my name for rent because I got paid nothing. Working for my liquor store because my dad didn't pay himself either.
- [00:22]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
Innovative, unrivaled. Gary Vee is the CEO of VaynerMedia and a six time New York Times bestselling author.
- [00:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Dreams are not given, dreams are taken. When you want a dream, you're not allowed to vacation. Cuz dreams are hard.
- [00:37]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
He was an early investor in companies like Facebook, Twitter, Uber and Coinbase. He's known online for his unmatched gut instinct and ability to predict future trends.
- [00:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
How many views does their picture and video get for you? Because everything is merit based on the content.
- [00:51]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
But Gary doesn't just talk about the future of business, he builds it. At the young age of 21, Gary converted his family liquor store into a wine library.
- [01:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
At what age are you allowed to take accountability for everything in your life? I ask all of you?
- [01:05]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
Then scaled the company from $3 million in annual revenue to $60 million. In 2017, Gary was listed as one of Forbes top social media influencers.
- [01:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You need to bet on your strengths and don't give a fuck about what you suck at.
- [01:20]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
Now he's gone on to become one of the top entrepreneurs in social media strategy and digital advertising. Get ready. This interview will teach you how to get ahead and stay ahead of the curve.
- [01:34]
Tommy (Interviewer)
All right, welcome back to the Mellow Millionaire. Today is going to be awesome. We've got the one and only Gary Vaynerchuk. He's the founder of VaynerMedia, Vander X V, Friends, RC and more. He's got more than nine books. Six of them are New York bestsellers. This guy doesn't need an introduction. Pleasure to have you on, man.
- [01:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Thanks, my man. Happy New Year.
- [01:54]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Happy New Year's. Listen, you were born in Belarus and came to America as a child. You started trading cards. You know, let's just talk about the early hustle to get. Just get everybody familiar with how you got started.
- [02:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, even before trading cards, which was really fifth, sixth, seventh grade, you know, I was just, you know, you know this tone, like some people are just born for certain things. Like when I see athletes or when I see musicians, you know, back in the day, like A lot of tennis players were like 14 and 15 and winning grand Slams, especially on the female side, these Olympians that are like 12 and winning the gold medal. Like, I was just that person with business. Like, by fourth grade, I was getting D's and F's because I couldn't. I couldn't understand why it mattered. I was so passionate about lemonade stands and washing. Like, if it snowed, I wanted to shovel snow, five bucks instead of sledding. If it was 90 degrees out, I wanted to sell lemonade or ring doorbells and wash cars. It was just so in me and. And, yeah, and I just refined that game as a child and then as a teenager. And I've just always been in both business, but also hard work. I think there's some people smarter than me that are like, business people, but they're like, they figure out, like, let me code this. And like, I've just been in both. Like, get dirt under my fingers and grind. I've tried to be smart, but, like, I love the process, I love the practice, I love the late nights. Like, I'm just that person that's process over. Over profits. Even. Like. Like, the money has shockingly not been in at some level. The motivator, even as a kid, it was just like, more fun for me to create a fake little store in the neighborhood and have people buy things than getting the money. You know what I mean?
- [03:41]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so the money didn't matter. One of the things I've noticed, you know, right now we employ 1300 people. And the people that came as immigrants, they're relentless. They're not afraid of rejection. They are like, this is the United States of America. Do you think being an immigrant just gave you a one up?
- [04:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. And I would say that for a lot of immigrants like myself, you know, because I was born in a. The USSR was a bad place. And then we came here, we were dead broke, so we lived in a. In Queens, like New York. Like, I don't think it was it per se. The immigrant, like, I would argue an American born in a trailer park has that same advantage, which is, like, when you're from the dirt, you're like, you're a different animal. I mean, it's not complicated. Right? Like, does a zoo animal beat a. Does a lion that grew up in the zoo beat a lion from the jungle? Never. And so, you know, and then I had the tone, I had the best circumstance, which is we didn't have shit, but we had. My mom filled every room with nothing. But love and optimism and joy. So some people grow up in shit, but the parents are in a shit place and it's dark, you know, I grew up. We didn't have shit, but we had the most important shit, which is nurturing, love, you know, I just had a fucking monster mother. And so, like, I was destined to be unstoppable because no one was gonna fuck with me because my mommy said I'm good. You know, like, it was like, what do you want for me? Like, I'm not gonna believe you. My mom said I'm good. My mom said I can you. You know?
- [05:21]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Yeah. 100. I felt like I. I got the most love if. If literally I got in a car accident. And the person that lived. My mom would come out with a shovel, doesn't have the best back, but she'd be like, let's go ahead and take care of this. If I did go to prison, she'd move next to the prison. I mean, I'm her baby boy. Like, that's it. Like, she's going to be close. Well, my dad was relentless. Did your dad have a, like, competitive, like, no participation trophies? What was your dad. What is his claim to how you turned out?
- [05:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
His best claim is word is bond. My dad. I don't know what my dad thought. I didn't see him until I was 14. He worked every minute. My dad showed me life lessons how to be a man, provide for your family, Be your word is what you back up. He was old school like that. He didn't even know what I was doing in sports. I think my dad. This is real. Showed up to one sporting event in my life, and it was because the baseball game was, like, five minutes from the liquor store, and he popped out. It was huge for me. I mean, I could. You could. I can't even explain to you what it feels like in my body right now. It was like I was shook that he was there. It was that out of character, out of my norm. He woke up and went to work before I woke up, and he came home after I went to bed, and he worked seven days a week. So I didn't fucking see my father until I started working in the liquor store that he had when I was 14. And that's when I really got to know my dad. The next 20 years was all my dad. I was in the liquor store all the time. And he was cynical and, like, different than my mom, but my mom had already laid the foundation. And my dad was able to sprinkle in his things. And you know, I'm obviously incredibly grateful for my parents.
- [06:58]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Yeah. So you started working at your dad's Jersey liquor store and you started the E commerce giant, the wine library, tv. What do you think you learned in the process of watching dad and just even before you constantly were thinking about the business?
- [07:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There was only one year where I wasn't thinking about the business that I saw my dad. It was the first year I worked in the liquor store. I fucking hated it. I just came from making actual money. 300 bucks, 600 bucks, 200 bucks, 500 bucks at the malls of New Jersey, selling cards and, and fucking being my own boss at 13 and fucking feeling like a fucking million bucks. And now I'm working my dad's liquor store on the weekends instead and I'm getting paid $2 an hour to bag ice in a dungy fucking basement like I was sloth from goonies with some 17 year old fucking degenerate who hated my fucking father. And I'm fucking bagging ice for 10 hours a day. My fucking pinky's about to fucking fall off because it's so fucking cold in that ice box. I'm like, what the fuck is this? Could give a fuck was in the basement. I hated it. And what I learned was what I didn't want to do. My dad was a dick to his employees. Straight up. He would yell at them. I didn't like it. This was not. Where's this fucking optimistic rainbow is that I was used to with my mom. It was year two when I went upstairs and started stocking shelves where I started thinking about the business because I can watch customers. You know, I was a psycho. I was like watching how they bought what they bought. Why I was fucking 14. Psycho, bro. Like fucking business like savant. In hindsight, it was my norm, I didn't know anything else. But now looking back, I'm like, that's just crazy. Like that I was so in that game. And what I learned a lot of things, no question. The thing I learned from my dad was no complaining and hard work, period. End of story. You know, like did not complain. Like, like it just, it didn't even cross his mind, nor my mother for that matter. Everything was so shitty back in the USSR in the 60s and 70s when they were growing up that the worst things happening in America, like my mom, my grandma got mugged the first week we're in America. And we were just happy that like she didn't go to jail for 10 years. Like, like, you know what I mean? It was like, it was like such gratitude of being in America. So you know, it was, it was hard work and discipline and non complaining. I also learned not to eat breakfast and lunch.
- [09:17]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Is that still today?
- [09:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, my dad did not eat breakfast or lunch and I don't eat breakfast for lunch like 35 years later. That's been like my framework. All this intermittent fasting that got popular like five years ago. I've been on rep tip for 20 years.
- [09:32]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Let me ask you this. So if your dad hired you today, what would you tell your dad about pricing? Would you tell him raise your prices?
- [09:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, if I'm thinking about your audience and all that and what I good news, Let me tell you the real story. I started working my Dad's store in 1990. I didn't launch winelibrary.com until 1997. I made a big impact on my dad's business before the Internet. The Internet obviously took us to the moon. And then wine library tv. I got wine Internet famous and that took our business to the moon. But the, the, there was several things. First I was into merchandising. So my father's the first impact I had on my dad was making signs for the store, a box with wine and be like 499. I'm like, no one wants to buy this shit. I'd make a big ass sign and be like, this wine pairs with fucking chicken. And it's better than $10 wines. And all of a sudden we're selling three times as much. I'm like, that was number one. Number two was the customer's always right, even when they're wrong. My dad was very good about customer being right. But my dad's very principled. So if a customer was trying to be cute, he didn't like that shit. That's a battle not worth fighting. You cursing out a customer on the floor who's trying, forget about stealing. I'm talking about being cute with a coupon or something. So a little bit of that little controlling the emotions. And then the biggest thing, my dad's liquor store was called Shoppers Discount Liquors. We sold beer and liquor. I was very good at listening to the customer. I knew that people wanted to buy more premium wine from us, so I brought in a lot more premium wine. They also got educated about wine and started really getting wine nerdy. There was more margin in wine than there was in beer and liquor. So really those were some of the big and the most of all brother employees. If my dad was on right now and you're like, yo, oh gee, Sasha, that's his name, Sasha. What? What? The kid teacher, he would say to treat the employees better. And I don't blame my dad. My dad's not a bad person. You know, what was going on, Tommy, was that in Russia, everyone stole because the government owned everything. Tommy. Right. So my dad just thought everyone was going to steal in America, too. They didn't. He didn't. You know, like, he just grew up in an environment where employees stole everything. Everything in Russia was the black market. You worked at the butchers, the government owned the butcher store. You would steal some of the meat and try to trade it for some. Everything was scarce, you know, so, you know, my dad's first piece of advice to me the first day I went to the store was keep an eye on the employees they try to steal. That was his first piece of advice to me. So I think I transformed him from seeing the employees as enemies to seeing the employees as teammates.
- [12:04]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Very, very valuable lesson. You know, it's funny, I didn't know you were there seven years before the. What did you see about the Internet? Because there's bitcoin right now. There's AI. But you were like. I mean, this is before you even had anything to buy domains, really. It was hard to get a website up in 1997. How did you see that? The World Wide Web. And what was going to happen with it?
- [12:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know how, like, some people are, like, talent agents or, like, remember, like, back in the day? How old are you, brother Tommy?
- [12:32]
Tommy (Interviewer)
How old?
- [12:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
42. Great. You're a hair underneath me. I'm 50. You might have caught this, but you definitely are probably aware of it back in, like, the 70s, like, these a and R guys in music, they'd have to go to a fucking club and, like, catch fucking, you know, Guns N roses playing to 50 people and be like, these guys. You know what I mean? I have that in business. I do. I have it, like, to be dead serious. Here's your answer. In 1995, I went into a dorm room because there was some commotion. And they're like, you got to see this. And I've heard of it, like, a little bit like, on the news or something. The. The World Wide Web, the information superhighway, bro. I did not own a computer. I was not a tech nerd. Like, I wasn't that kid. But I literally watched. Literally, for the young kids listening, I watched someone go on the Internet on aol. Like, I stood behind him on a desktop computer and heard that shit, if you remember, and watched a human go on The Internet. And I was like, what the. You know, like. Like, quick, like. I was like. And. And then I waited an hour because everybody got, like, five, ten minutes to fuck around. And I sat down. This changed my life, brother. I just typed in, like, buying baseball cards. And we didn't even go to the web. We stayed in aol and I found a bulletin board where people were like, eric Davis rookie card, nine bucks. Like, looking for donruss82. I was like, what is. Like, my brain was. And I was like, this is that prodigy shit that some kid told me about a couple years. Like, this is real. I'm giving you my internal thinking. And, bro, 20 minutes later, I swear to God, on my kid's health, I was like, this is going to change my life. That's it. I don't know what else to tell you. I just knew that every fucking person on earth was going to do this shit and that I had to figure out how to use it for business. And the two things I used it for were the only two things I knew. I found ebay a few months later and started posting and buying and flipping. And I started trying to convince my father that we needed a fucking website for a single store. Liquor store in New Jersey. And I registered winelibrary.com, that was a name I was kicking around with my dad because I wanted to change our store from Shoppers Discount Liquors. And we launched one of the first E Commerce, One of the first five E commerce wine stores in the country.
- [14:56]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Quite the story. You know, I found out about Craigslist early on and that that changed my life forever because I posted 500 ads a day on Craigslist.
- [15:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And you know this, brother. Like, hustlers like us, like, we find the thing we're not scared to waste. You know what my biggest strength is? I wonder if this is yours, Tommy. And I wonder if I want people to hear this. I'm not scared to waste my time even now when it's extremely valuable. Honestly. I get paid $350,000 to give a keynote speech an hour right in New York City, which takes me 10 minutes to get to. But I'll sit and spend nine hours on something that might never materialize. Because I know if all I need is one of those things, bitcoin, blockchain, AI, social media. I mean, it's happened to me, you know, time and time again. I've wasted many hours to not waste several hours that have changed the course of my life. And everybody out here, brother, that's listening many of Them are scared to waste their time when their fucking time is worthless.
- [15:54]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Yeah, well, they'll watch their Netflix and they'll do the. You know, Jeff Bezos said, and this is probably one of the best quotes is in baseball, you could get four runs, but in business, if you hit a home run, you could get 10,000. And so that's basically VCs. You know, you don't hit them all out of the park, but you got to be willing to take the time, meet the people. And what you've learned how to do is recognize winners. And I'm sure real quick for people that you invest in, because you could invest in Bitcoin is a little bit different. But when you're investing in a business, what do you look for in the person? What kind of traits?
- [16:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I used to. I run the gamut, you know, Again, I don't know if you're doing video or audio, but these stock certificates above my head, that's Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. They were the first three companies I invested in. I killed it. I like, you know, like, know, sometimes your first album is your best. Actually in music, a lot of times your best album is your. Your first album is your best album. But, you know, in those scenarios, I looked at the horse and the jockey. So Twitter, Facebook and, and. And Tumblr had already existed when I invested. They were early. First. First little couple, first year, first couple months, first year. So I could see what it was. I could taste it back to like, you know, the Internet thing. And then when I met the kids, AB Williams, who was Jack Dorsey's partner, he was primary for me. They were really co founders. Mark Zuckerberg obviously went on to be one of the iconic businessmen of all time. And this really brilliant kid, David Karp, the founder of Tumblr, who I would argue understood where social is going. I think TikTok is more Tumblr than it is Facebook. You see interest instead of social. Anyway, all three of them, I felt that they could will their way to the other side later, Tommy, because I want to teach people about my mistakes after those three, where I loved both the platform and the person. Later I started investing in companies even earlier. So I had to hear a pitch of an idea and judge the kid. I started to overvalue education, which was crazy because I fucking hated school and thought every like it meant nothing. But too many of the startups the kids went to Stanford and Harvard. So I got tricked. And so I started overvaluing the college they went to. That was bad. I started overvaluing the idea because I couldn't see the product because they were pitching me the idea. It was early and I thought about how I as a good operator would operate it. But I didn't know how to judge a kid. If they knew how to operate, I could judge their energy, their tenacity, their hopes and dreams. So my chapters for a long time in very early startup Life, early stage, $4 million valuation, angel round. That was very, that, that proved to be great because I hit some real home runs, Venmo and other things that nature but definitely in hindsight was a little bit more guessing than I would like because if I want to gamble, I'll go gamble, right? If I want to invest, I'm now looking for the jockey and the horse and I want to see the horse. Show me your little pony. I need to fucking see it, right? Like I can't look at the deck anymore. Show me the product. Six months. I can project if it's going to be different. Netflix was fucking very different when it came out than what it is now. I can project, but I need to see it, I need to touch it. And so that's where I'm at as an investor now.
- [19:14]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Let me ask you a few repeat questions I ask every person that comes on. What's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you knew in your 20s?
- [19:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's not advice, it's I wish I knew what my kryptonite was in my 20s so I could fix it. Gary V Tommy, as you can tell on this podcast, he's as a public figure, very canderous, shoots it straight. Gary Vaynerchuk in real life, if I like you, even if I even I don't even need to love you, if I like you, I struggled with giving you actual feedback because I was scared that you would get scared and get fucked up or like I didn't, I didn't value candor. So I Wish in my twenties, I understood the candor was a gift you were giving to people, not a scare tactic.
- [20:00]
Tommy (Interviewer)
There's a great book from Feedback in a Fragile World because very hard to accept feedback.
- [20:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
We call it internally Kind candor.
- [20:09]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Kind candor, yeah.
- [20:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
2700 employees at Vayner X at our, our marketing firm VaynerMedia and we call it Kind Candor and it, I've been training it to my team and it's changed our business.
- [20:23]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Give me an example.
- [20:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I, you know this brother, you're now in your career. A lot of our managers use candor or feedback as an excuse to Be a dick face. The end. We have managers, you and I, who have kids that are more talented than them, reporting to them. And the manager is going to suppress them. Cause they're scared they're going to leapfrog them. So if you just call it firm feedback or if you just call it candor, well, now you got a fucking problem. Because people are going to weaponize it by calling it kind candor and holding our leaders accountable to it. They know they're getting graded by the people that they're giving feedback as well. And one of the things we ask is, did they have any question? Did the person giving you this feedback show any level of humanity? What does that mean? It means that, you know, it's that old Mary Poppins song. I don't fucking remember it, but it's like that. A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down in a most delightful way. That's it. Like, I'm a buyer. Like, like, you know, you're gonna have to tell someone that they're. They're on the verge of fire, getting fired, or they're not doing a good job. But starting with a little bit of like, hey, brother. And not like over coddling bullshit, like just checking the box. Just be a human. Be like, yo, you show up, you're a dude. Like, hey, lady, you're awesome. Like, you got a lot of creativity, but like, hey, these things have to happen. Or like, the calculus is going to, you know, it's sports. You're going to get benched. You're awesome, we love you, but you're going to get benched. And sometimes that's less opportunity and sometimes, unfortunately, that's getting cut from the team and like. But I think you got to be a human.
- [22:02]
Tommy (Interviewer)
I love it. If you had $10 million in your account, that's it for you putting the money.
- [22:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So I got 10 million, but I have nothing else.
- [22:11]
Tommy (Interviewer)
You have no other businesses, but you still have connections. You still have relationships.
- [22:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Oh, I'm. I'm starting a business that I'm in charge of. You know, I'll decide what I want to sell or do. But like, I'm not investing it. I'm not buying real estate, I'm not buying bitcoin. All things I like. I'm. I'm starting a business because I can turn that ten into a hundred, easy. Yeah, bro, you could take my connections away. And I'm doing the same thing. I have seven meaningful businesses. I. I call myself the business juggler. I have seven real businesses. I have a TV production company Called Vayner Watt. I have a huge sports agency for all the sports fans, Vayner Sports reps. Bobaette just signed with the Mets for a buck 40. Sauce Gardner, Aiden Hutchinson, Kirk Cousins. So I got Vayner Sports. I have a huge restaurant group with five very successful restaurants in Manhattan, three in Vegas, brand new ripping called the VCR Group. And then I have VaynerMedia. 400 million in revenue this year. Tommy. 400 million in sales. Not valuation, not some bullshit 400 million in sales. I got Vee Friends, which is my Pokemon meets Sesame street thing that I'm building. That could be the biggest company I ever built, right? Like I'm a real fucking operator, doing over a half a billion in revenue in my companies. Like, I'm an operator. Yes, I'm a motivational speaker and an author and a personality and a personal brand, you know. And yes, I know people see me in 15 second clips on in feed or on LinkedIn, but like, I'm a real fucking operator. I was 34 years old before I made business content on the Internet and already built a big business for my dad, you know, and restarted with nothing because I built a business for my dad. Sometimes people try to fucking, you know, flame me and they're like, don't listen to this guy. Trust fund baby, his dad gave him a winery. They make up all sorts of shit. They have no idea my story. I work 22 to 34 every minute, fucking 100 hours a week, seven days a week in a liquor store and started VaynerMedia in a fucking conference room in another company because I had no money to my name for rent, because I got paid nothing. Working for my liquor store because my dad didn't pay himself either. It was all going back into the business. The problem for me was he owned the business and had that asset. I had shit. So like, I don't need anything. I'm a fucking operator.
- [24:20]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Well, one question. You got these businesses you're. You're juggling. Is there ever. You know, I've always built a sell if I can't sell a business in five years or less. Not that I have to sell it if things are going well, but that's, that's generally like you roll equity if you want to.
- [24:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I love that. And good for you and that's awesome. And you like that game. I'm completely the other way. I want to die and leave it to people.
- [24:45]
Tommy (Interviewer)
I love it. So there's no businesses you plan on selling ever if your name's attached to it.
- [24:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'VE had to sell two businesses. One was Empathy Wines. You could see it right over my shoulder here. These wines we sold in 18 months. We sold that business for just short of nine figures to consolation brands. I had two partners that started as interns with me at Vaynermedia. They were my partners in that direct to consumer wine brand. They were also both about to get married. We got this opportunity. They looked at me with those puppy four puppy dog eyes and I was like, God damn it. So we sold it. They made some money. It's really lovely. And the other business I sold in my career was I was the co founder and co creator of Resi, the restaurant app that sold to American Express, that company. I came, I co came up with the idea, I was an investor and put money in. We housed that company in VaynerMedia. I was always there for Ben. Ben was the captain, I was the co pilot. I definitely made some big cash and strategic moves. I feel like my DNA is in that exit. But that was a big exit for Ben specifically especially. And so those are the two businesses that have sold in my time. But neither one of them were like the majority. My businesses were. I'm like the lead. It's me, I own it. I don't have to factor anyone else's needs into the decision.
- [26:05]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Just one quick thing. Have you ever heard Die with Zero? The book Die with Zero?
- [26:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I haven't heard of it.
- [26:11]
Tommy (Interviewer)
So the book's just like, listen, when you're 35 compared to when you're 85, a trip means more, right? Like you could go do more, you could go hiking, you could do more and you could give and actually see your money be given. If you're, you know, 56 years old and you could see, wow, I'm actually making an impact, you get to see your impact. So I'm not, I'm not disregarding what you're saying. I'm just thinking so many people, they make, they, they do all this work and they're workaholics and then they go to their grave and then they don't get to see the fruits of their labor or their kids. And by the way, don't spoil your kids.
- [26:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But I run very profitable businesses. I just did a $10 million over 10 year commitment to charity water to see that impact. I've been to Ghana, I've watched the schools I built with pencils of promise. I don't want stuff right? I don't want a Lamborghini, I don't want four houses, I don't Want that. All I want is the New York jets to win a Super Bowl. I'm a workaholic. Not for the. I don't want the trophies. I want the process. Like, like, I don't. I don't need validation from the money. I don't. I also have plenty of money. My apart. My apartment's plenty nice. My. I've had multiple homes. Like, I've got stuff because I run profitable businesses and kick myself distribution. But to your point, I love how you frame that. I've been able to do enormous amounts of impact financially through charitable work and then also why I spend so much time building the Gary Vee brand. I've literally fundamentally changed people's lives because of my content. And that feels so I'm fulfilled as a human. And then for me, selfishly, Tommy, I, you know, I've said this a couple times recently because it's the only way I can explain it. Toby, I don't know how you vacation, but the way I like to vacation because I go so hard is I want to plop my ass on a beach, do nothing, listen to music, eat three times, go to sleep, like be, you know, on some of these vacations. You know, as I've grown in my career, the places are nicer, right? You go from Club Med to like fucking Amanyara, right? I've always been fascinated with the kid that is like just building a sandcastle all day and then like the sun's coming down, it's time to like get cleaned up and go for dinner. And moms and dad are like, yo Johnny, Yo Tommy, time to go. And this kid fucking. I. I'm just laying there just listening to music and thinking and vegging out and literally have watched this kid from 9:00am to fucking 5:00pm Build this fucking immaculate. Whether it's whether he did a good job or him and his sister or the sister or just her. Whether they did a good job or not. I've watched eight hours of work. Hey, Tommy, time for dinner. And then the kid just smashes it and runs up, bro, I'm that kid. I just need to. I just am curious and I'm enjoying to see how big I can build all this juggling. I don't need the financial payoff. I get enough of what I need from the day to day distributions and all that. That's what makes me happy. On the flip side, it was funny when you were like, I build businesses. Like, I was smiling inside. I'm like, that's fucking awesome. Like, that's. That's his chemicals. That's how he likes the game. I don't. I like my game for me. I don't recommend my game for anyone. Unless what I just said for the last four minutes lit you up on this. If you're listening right now, well, then let's go. Like, then do that. You can do that, too. You got the Tommy way, you got the Gary way, and you got a hundred thousand other ways. Just do it for you. Did you ever see Rocky 4 with Drago? So I don't know if you know that I'm Russian, so I know what he was saying at the last scene. Drago, after he lost, is, like, yelling at the Russian crowd and the Russian premiere, and he's saying in Russian, he's like, fuck you all for booing me. Like, I was in this ring for me. Not for the country, not for you. Yasi bia. I was for. I was in it for. I'm in here for me. It's me. I'm the man in the fucking arena. That's how I see life. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I don't think I'm special. I'm just in the arena for me. And for me, I just want to keep playing. I'm intoxicated by the holding the breath of it all, and that's how I roll.
- [30:13]
Tommy (Interviewer)
You know, I walked up to you. You were at Yano's event. It was out in the desert. Cristiano, who was probably five years ago, we drank plenty of wine. You went on there and you said, you know, all you guys doing billboards, why billboards? I could beat you with social media, might take a hundred tries. But I also went up to you and I said, you know, Gary, my mom, and a lot of other people in my life say, when is enough enough? And you go, tommy, I get that all the time. You said, I'm still having fun. I'm just getting started. It's just started. It's starting to get easier. And that had to be five, six years ago at this point. And I'll never forget that, because I was like, yeah, I'm like Tiger Woods. Mom didn't say you won four. You know, you win the. The Grand Slam. You won all four tournaments.
- [30:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Tommy, that's because a lot of people around us really think it's about the money. And by the way, it's a. I just want everyone to hear this. You're. Everyone's allowed for it to be about the money. And I want to say a Curveball to everyone here. I wish all of you knew me at 17. I'm not saying this gibberish right now because now I have money. I was saying this gibberish when I didn't. That's why I was such a psycho and signed up for building a huge business for my parents and left with nothing, Dick. Zero. I left with fulfillment. Back to what you said. Leave with zero. I fucking lived it, bro. I gave all of my best youth years to my parents because I have that in my soul forever. I go into the ground knowing that there are very few sons or daughters on earth that did more for their parents financially than the reverse. Like, I feel good about that. Makes me feel good. So anyway, that's why they're saying that, Tommy. They think you're doing it for another this or another that or another zero in the bank account. You know, this. The fuck are we gonna do? The fuck are we supposed to do if we're not building?
- [31:55]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Yeah, yeah, let's talk about. Talk about, like, not wanting to wake up in the morning. Like, what do. Like, I can't imagine disappearing onto a golf course and being like, I'm retired. We got under eight minutes. So I'm gonna speed through here. What's your biggest professional dream at the current moment? Like, if you got the. All these businesses.
- [32:12]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I want v Friends to become Pokemon and Marvel. I think I can do it. I'm super deep into it. Obsessed with collectibles. I'm obsessed with storytelling and characters. I want everyone to fall in love with stoic slime and empathy elephant. And I need to make Dynamic Dinosaur famous. I'm Walt fucking Disney. I'm Vince McMahon. I'm Jim Henson. That is my biggest goal. And then when I build that and take it public or sell it because the jets are available, I want to buy the New York jets and I want to ride them into a Super Bowl.
- [32:43]
Tommy (Interviewer)
All right, we're just going to do this speed round here, there's 14 things true or false, and your reasoning, okay, you need to establish a niche before.
- [32:51]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You start posting false, because you could. First of all, you don't even need a niche. You could be completely potpourri like I am and talk about tons of different things. Next.
- [33:02]
Tommy (Interviewer)
If you post too much, people will unfollow.
- [33:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Not true. No one's seeing everything anymore. It's the interest media era, not the social media era. People unfollow if you post things that they're not interested in consistently. Plus, if you post more, you'll gain more followers than you'll lose and you'll net out with more. Next.
- [33:22]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Taking a posting break helps reset the algorithm.
- [33:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
False. Posting better content helps reset the algorithm. The algorithm is just people. There is no algorithm. It's people's interest in what you're saying. Taking a break and coming back and doing more bad shit isn't going to help you. Next.
- [33:39]
Tommy (Interviewer)
All you need is one big viral moment.
- [33:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Most people get into levels of depression because they have a viral moment and do nothing with it. It's the reverse. You don't need a big boulder, you need thousands of little pebbles. Consistently. Next.
- [33:53]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Only viral content is valuable for bringing in followers.
- [33:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, there is. I would say. Yes. Ish. I would say big posts that earn a million views will get you more followers, but posts that get a thousand views will also bring in. So does an individual piece of content that gets tons of views bring in more followers than the others? Yes. Is it more likely like the gym, that you'll more likely get 4, 7, 9, 13, 23 every day if you do that consistently for 365 days versus worrying and hoping for the lottery ticket? That's the framework you need to bring to this. Next.
- [34:33]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Being too broad, confused. Is the algorithm?
- [34:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Absolutely not. Are you making shit that people are interested in? Again, there's no algorithm. The content is shown to a small group of people quickly. Some your followers, some not. And if people are not engaging with it, staying on it, reading it, clicking it, sharing it, liking it, DMing it, or just sitting on it and consuming it, then it will decline.
- [34:53]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Following trends or hot topics matters more than originality.
- [34:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's and not boat or both can work like trends, being contextual, being relevant, being of the moment, phenomenal. But if like, you know, quarter zips are hot but you say something stupid and not valuable, you're not going to be able to ride that trend. Both matter. Steak and sizzle. Next.
- [35:13]
Tommy (Interviewer)
You should use trending audio on 90% of your reels.
- [35:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I would say false. I mean, I mean, first of all, you should be talking in more of your reels if you're. If you're only. If you're using only visuals like talking matters. But I think catching a audio trend before it pops is even better than riding one that's popped. So I think you got to again, mix it up.
- [35:37]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Long form content, like long YouTube videos.
- [35:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Are dead uncomfortably false. We just sat here for 40 minutes and gave a ton of fucking value. Plus now we have a piece of content that we can chop up into 13 pieces of content. Long form video, I would argue is the starting point, long form video is crushing on Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube Podcasts. That's an excuse of the week. Next.
- [36:01]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Once you monetize, the algorithm punishes you one more time.
- [36:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
The algorithm is just people. If you start trying to sell, sell, sell. Less people are interested in being sold. They want information. So like I wrote years ago in jab, jab, jab, right, you got to give value, give value, give value. But you should have no shame in asking. But if you're asking, asking, asking, asking, you're going to lose attention.
- [36:24]
Tommy (Interviewer)
Gary, if somebody were to reach out, I mean, there's a million ways to get a hold of you, but where would you have them contact you, where your team could get back to them?
- [36:32]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's very gracious and I do think people can find me, but Gary Vee is a very easy way to find me everywhere. I appreciate you, brother Tommy. I wish you a great, great, healthy, happy year and I hope we cross paths again.
- [36:44]
Tommy (Interviewer)
We will have a great day, my man. Thank you so much for doing this.
- [36:48]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now.
- [36:59]
Tommy (Interviewer)
High expectations are the key to everything. You don't get results by aiming low. So, my friends, what I would tell you right now is have big, big, hairy, audacious goals. Dream bigger, ask for more. If you shoot for the stars and you land on the moon, you're still doing great. And that's it, guys.
- [37:16]
Narrator/Host Intro and Outro
We'll talk to you next week.