← The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
Neuro-Persuasion and the Science of Selling with Jeremy Miner
00:25:44
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- [00:00]
A
Have you ever wondered why salespeople selling the same thing to the same prospects at the same price points, using the same script get completely different results? It's not the words necessarily they're saying, it's how influential.
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Strategic, transformational. Our guest today doesn't just close deals. He redefines the science of persuasion.
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Our vision to change the way sales is perceived in society.
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Jeremy Minor is the master of sales psychology.
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In my life it's been revolutionary, turning.
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High pressure selling into effortless conversations that drive results. As the founder of Seventh Level, he's trained thousands of sales professionals in the science of netpute, a method so effective that it's helped businesses worldwide maximize revenue.
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NPQ has different most of everything I've, I've been taught in sales.
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A Wall Street Journal bestselling author, Jeremy has written multiple books including the new model of Selling in the Nebcube Black Book of Questions. His training has transformed everything, helping professionals master ethical persuasion. He's been featured in major publications for his business expertise.
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A
Selling has changed, but yet salespeople keep selling and using these techniques that were devised 40, 50, 60 years ago. If you want to be like top 1% salesperson, you have to view that selling as collaborative. It's like you working with the prospect to help them find and solve problems.
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He's proving that true sales mastery isn't about pushing, it's about understanding.
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I'm using human behavior. I want to work with the way the brain is already working.
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This conversation will change the way you sell, negotiate and influence people. Today I got a good buddy in town actually he lives here. Good friend Jeremy Miner. He's the founder of Seventh level sales training. The author of the new model of selling, Selling to an unsellable generation. The mastermind in sales psychology. Your company's seventh level was ranked one of the top 10 sales training companies in the world and you're building content across it's an empire across Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. I think you're like the second largest training now. Just catching up to Sandler. So tell me, what's your secret?
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A
It's all about your communication skills. What's the number one skill set you can learn in life and master that's going to take you anywhere you want to your communication skills. Doesn't matter if you're in sales or not. If you don't master communication, you're just, you're going to, you're going to set second fiddle to people who do. Like I look at like you know Jeffrey Bezos, was he the only person that had the concept of Amazon unlikely. He just knew how to communicate his vision. He knew how to set, sell, he knew how to frame it better than other people.
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B
Let's get to know you a little more here for the audience. You know, you've been very successful.
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A
You make, trying to catch up with.
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B
You, dude, you make a great amount of money. You're building an empire here. What, what is a good outcome? Where do you want your life to look like and win?
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A
I mean, to me it's all about leaving something. Because I feel like at the end of the day, when you leave this life and you go to the next life, that you have to answer to the man himself. Like, what did you do with your life? That's just my thought process, my opinion. I don't know what that looks like, where that's at somewhere, but I feel like you're gonna have to answer to the man himself. And I feel like God gives us all talents and abilities, but most people, like, live in fear and they never do anything with those talents. They never do anything with those abilities. So in my mind, like, because I mastered, someone said I'd mastered this thing and when I was a salesperson, I feel like I have to do something with it to help people. That's really important for me. It's important for me, for me to be a good example for my children so that as they grow up, they see success. You know, like we, let's say we go to Europe. My kids are always like, well, dad, why do you sit in first class? I have to set back in economy for nine hours. I'm like, sounds like you got a skill problem. You got to learn more skills. You got to learn more skills and then you can buy your own first class ticket. I'm not going to give that to you, baby. You see, you do that, your kids. But to me, it's all about teaching your kids how to be adults. It's all the butterfly effect. I don't know. So to me, like, you know, our, our mission of our company is to change the way sales is perceived in society. And you change, you know, one salesperson, one company at a time. Not only does that affect, you know, them because they start making a lot more sales, but it affects their family because now let's say they double, triple their sales, which, you know, then they make way more money. They're paid way more money. Now their kids grow up in a different lifestyle. Now their kids might be taught different things because their parents, their mom or dad are far more Successful, Right. And now those kids get out of poverty.
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B
There's this domino effect.
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A
It's just a domino effect. And it affects the prospects too. Right? Like, they want a great experience. Like, people love to buy. They just don't. Like all the. Yeah, they hate to be sold.
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B
This perceived notion of sales, if I had. And I talked about this with a buddy recently, I said, if I. I get a new class of 40, 50 people.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Technicians a month. And I told them one day, I said, write down what you think about when I say this guy's in sales. What does that mean to you? Yeah, but write down what that perceives. So first you got to break the idea of it's sleazy. A car salesman. The guy's getting off on, like, just this evil person.
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A
Manipulation.
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B
Manipulation is just like, they got. They got me.
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A
Well, yeah, it's because, you know, like, I. I always ask this at, like, a keynote term. Like, you know, how are salespeople generally viewed in society as a. Who, like high status or low status? Low status. How are doctors viewed in society? High status. Well, why? Because if you're a salesperson and if there's nothing sold in the world, that means there's no such thing as an economy. If there's no economy, that means there's no such thing as a society. So why wouldn't salespeople be higher status? Right. That's your job. It's because of the way they've been taught how to communicate. So as a psychologist, you know, I was taught that, you know, every. Every human being has a way of thinking or a belief system. We call that a frame. Right. You've heard of framing from nlp? It's called a frame. Right. Or a belief system. Your belief systems primarily come from the ages of. Who influenced you from the ages of 4 to 13. Your parents, the cousins you hung out with, maybe the church you went to. Your religious beliefs. If you're a kid now, who you follow on TikTok influences your worldview. Right. So what would be a belief system that pretty much everybody has? Like, what's a. What's one of the first things that comes to your mind, Right. When a salesperson first starts talking to you, how much is this gonna cost me? So every prospect you talk to has belief systems. Like, I never make a decision on the first appointment. I always like to think it over. I always like to do research. I'm always thinking around. If you can't help them, come out of that frame, that's called a D frame. And then reframe them into a new frame or a new belief system. You're probably not gonna make that. Well, right. So that's where reframing and deframing comes in. It's all about your communication skills. So I take them into a new frame, a new belief system.
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B
I'm, like, obsessed. Like, I read a lot, I'm building relationships. I never really feel like I go to work, but I'm always working.
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A
Yeah, and that's why you've been extremely successful.
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B
I know, but then you look, look, people are like, man, I want what you have. I'm like, well, don't get married and don't have kids because you cannot work seven days a week. Like I, I had to do for decades. But I started to think about my success, family, fun, finance, fitness, future.
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A
I don't know. My, my, me having my daughter when I was 22 made me work harder because I had to.
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B
No, I get it. And I'm not saying, like, look, I just. Look, the family came second.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
The, the, the fun came second. The fitness got pushed off. Yeah, the, the learning got. Wasn't as able to do it as much as I would have liked in faith. The faith, you know, I didn't make it to church every Sunday. I'm just curious, how do you look at these things to say how important is faith and fitness and fun and these other things? Family, you've got kids.
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A
You know, I think it's important. I think it just depends on where you're. Where you really want to be really, really great at. Right. If you want to have. I think that's why a lot of really successful business leaders and owners don't necessarily have great marriages because they don't really focus on much on learning skills to be great in relationships. I know I didn't for. For a long time. I'm doing that now. You know, now I'm buying coaching. Like, how do I be better in a relationship? You know, because I'm like, I'm buying all this training and all this other stuff. That's why I've mastered it or I'm mastering it. But I think a lot of business people don't necessarily put money into that other stuff.
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B
Getting a better father or getting a great physical trainer.
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A
And it's not something you're born with. Like, you don't have. Like, like you're, you know, how to be the most. The best parent in the world. Right. You gotta, you gotta buy training on that. You gotta buy that from people who've mastered it themselves, who teach that Stuff I don't think you can be great at 17 different things. I'm not a person that think believes that people believe. Like, oh, if you have money, like, the love of monies is the root of all evil. It's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money itself. Money is just a thing. It's like just a piece of paper, right. Or it's gold. See, money doesn't give you happiness, Right. If that was the case, you'd never have celebrities committing suicide. Money just gives you more options in life.
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B
Here's what I don't like. People are always like, man, I want. I want your life.
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A
I don't think people take action.
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B
But why do they want. They're like, I want to do 100 million because you proved this possible. I was like, well, why? I always ask why? Like, what are you gonna do?
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A
They just want the feeling of what, what? And here, that's a problem that you want the feeling, though. They don't. Okay, so the reason, psychologically, I want to hear this. The reason why is because they want the feeling of what a hundred million means, not the hundred million. That's what it is. So if you don't have a passion to do what you want to do to get that 100 million when times get tough, because they will, as you know. Right. What was your life like 15, 20 years ago?
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Really hard.
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A
Exactly. But you were passionate about what you're doing. That's why you burned. You burned the boat. You never looked back. You only had Plan A. But if you're not passionate about what you're doing and you just want to be rich because like I said, you want to be rich because of the feeling of what it means to be rich. But if you're not passionate about something, you'll never do anything about getting rich. You know, I look at people like Tom Brady, or really anybody successful in life, and. And typically they all had chips, you know, like a chip on their shoulders. There was something that happened to them as a child, or you look at Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins wouldn't be Tony Robbins without his dad being abusive and all these. His. His childhood being so crazy. He would never be who he is today. He wouldn't even be in personal development. Right. So that made him who he was. But that probably put a chip on his shoulders where he's like, I'm not going to let this happen to other people. So I'm going to teach him how to overcome this Tom Brady. You know, I don't know what Happened to him in his childhood. But, you know, he gets drafted out of Michigan, six round, last pick. He pissed off slower the molasses.
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B
So.
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A
So he takes that chip and he's like, he sticks it to every team, and he knows the defense is better than they know themselves because he studies and he studies and he does, and he's committed to mastery, right? So I think a lot of it is just. I think everybody really has a chip on their shoulder. I just don't think most people activate it. I think that's the difference. I think everybody's a chip somewhere. Well, you know, you come to the wealthiest family in the world, but your chip could be like, I want to.
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B
Make it on my own.
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A
Yeah, I want to make it on my own. Because everybody says you're just, you know, getting the silver spoon.
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B
Hey, you're Tommy's kid.
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A
Yeah, you're Tommy's kid. That could be your chip. Some people don't activate the chip.
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B
I just eat this stuff up. You took some acting classes, too. So you didn't only study communication and psychology, but how many different tones are there again?
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A
Well, there's a lot of different tones. I say you always want to. You want to master the five core tonalities. Okay, you got the curious tone. That's more fact finding questions. Okay, so, okay, so what actually happened with the garage? You know, that's a curious tone, right?
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B
You're.
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A
Like I said, your. Your tone is how they interpret your intention behind what you're asking. So then you have a challenging tone. Well, what happens if you don't do anything about this and this gets worse? Right? I can't ask. I can't use a challenging tone the first couple minutes of a conversation because I don't have much trust or credibility, right? But once I have that authority with them and that credibility, I can challenge them because they trust me at that point. Okay. They look at me as the expert. And then you have the concern tone, a tone that shows empathy. I might lean in. If I. If you can't get him to move forward, he might be like, can I, can I ask you something? You know, say a soft tone? Sure, yeah, go ahead. What's. What's really holding you back? It's like you have a secret that you're about to tell them that forces the brain to have to stay engaged. And then you have a playful tone, right? So, you know, you knock on the door. Let's say you're selling garages and you're H Vac, you got an appointment, and they're like, how are you doing today? You know, most sales people, they say, oh, I'm doing great. Really good. You know, just had a coffee. That doesn't really hurt you but doesn't really help you. So how do I, you know, how do I get them to, like, laugh, you know, because that releases dopamine in your brain. It's disarming. So I might say, you know, just hanging out, being the boring guy. What about you guys? Oh, I'm sure you're not boring. And now, you know, they start laughing. Dopamine's release guard comes down. Those are the five core tones.
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B
How do you. How long does it take if you're studying this? Well, first of all, what's the best way to study and how long does it take to not master it? Because it's. I think master is a crazy word, but at least to get good.
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A
Yeah, I think there's always four types of people. Okay. There are those who wing everything. I call those wingers. Right? So if you're in sales and persuasion, a winger have no process that they're falling. They don't really know what's going on. One week they might do good, the next month they're bad, and they don't know why. Anybody that wings anything, never going to be successful. Unlikely. Okay, then you have those who are in the middle, those I call the dabblers. They dabble in everything, right? So in sales, they might be the person that buys a few books every year. Because books will never teach you mastery, right? It's just words. It's an overview. So they buy a few books a year, they go to a free event. They. They follow, you know, somebody on Instagram or IG and, you know, the basic content. And they feel like if they just stay in long enough, if they just get enough reps, eventually they'll figure it out. Okay. That's where most salespeople are. Then you have the know it allers. Think about the know it all is in life, right? So they think they know everything. They might have invested in sales or psychology or business stuff initially. Then they got somewhat good. Maybe they start making multiple six figures. Maybe they become a millionaire. Then they stop investing because they think they know everything. The ego gets in the way, and where does their income go? Usually gets capped. They never go back up. Right. And then you have what I call those who are committed to mastery, they're always investing in their skill level, whether it's sales, whether it's business, whether they're an attorney, always looking, even when they're 80 those are your top 1% or higher in any profession.
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B
What's a piece of game changing advice you wish you knew in your twenties?
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A
Speed to success? Faster hiring people that have done the thing that you want to do and you just get there a hundred x faster. Sometimes you learn by, you think, oh I'm just gonna learn by trial and error. That's the fool's game that takes forever if you ever master anything. So to me it's like hiring the right people even faster. And I felt like I hired people really, really fast.
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B
I'd say I'm pretty big into the habits but I like what Alex Ramosi says. He's like, I drank all the time in my 20s. I didn't get up early, I didn't work weekends, I didn't hustle and I'm still a millionaire. But I'm really, I do think it's millionaire habits do exist. So what are your millionaire habits that sets you apart? What's your routine? What's something that you think is a must? That if, if someone's going to really live a life of abundance, they need to incorporate some of these.
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A
The biggest thing for me since early 20s was always learning. So like, and I don't say like I get up at three in the morning to sit in front of a computer to go through a training program about something to learn. I might, you know, get up in the morning and I've got a 10 minute ride to the gym. What am I listening to that 10 minutes? Something that I'm that's trying to get me ahead and whatever I'm doing, you.
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B
Know, I always say there's 168 hours in a week. What do you say to people that use time as an excuse?
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A
Let's say if you're, you know, selling a sales training program or you're selling something like that, they need to learn from you from like maybe you're selling a course on how to build a successful home services business. I don't know, you could probably ask them like, well what do you listen to in your car when you're driving back and forth to work? And they're probably going to say I don't know, the news, the, you know music, my favorite, you know, country song or whatever. And I'd probably say, well, how much money is, you know, the news? Or how much money is, you know, your favorite rock and roll song? How much is that making you every month?
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B
Well, this idea, I'll tell you. Dan Martel reframed a couple things for me in A big way because I'm pretty methodical when it comes to business.
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A
You are.
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B
But he's like, how much do you drive a week? And I actually wrote down and I figured out I'm like 12 hours a week.
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A
Yeah.
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B
He's like, why, why wouldn't you have a driver? And I'm like, dude, I'm too humble. I like, I don't, I don't need a driver. He's like, wait a minute. He's like, you get back 12 hours. And he's like, that's not selfish, that's not self centered. And he just got me to reframed it out of a different lens.
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A
Yeah, well, time is your biggest asset, right. Because you, you can be, you know, worth $10 trillion, but you can't buy more time. Right. And once your time is gone, you can never buy it back.
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B
One of the reasons home service, like garage doors, H vac, plumbing, electrical were worth so much money. The multiple so high is because if the economy tanks and your pipe breaks or your H vac goes out 120 degrees, you're still figuring out a way to get it done.
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A
It's a necessity.
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B
It's a demand driven necessity.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Garage doors, you're stuck in your garage, the spring breaks, you're going to pay to get out of there.
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A
Right?
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B
How do I build demand when it doesn't exist? Let's say you don't have a garage door problem. You know, there's no issues.
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A
Well, it's, it's. I mean, I can give you the answer. It's, it's really how you see doubt in the prospect's brain using your tonality and your facial expressions and your body language and if you're on the phone, your tonality. So it's how you, it's. See, here's the thing. Have you ever wondered why salespeople selling the same thing to the same prospects at the same price points using the same script get completely different results? It's not the words necessarily they're saying, it's how they're saying it.
- [18:38]
B
The body language, how it's.
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A
It is, it affects your, it. Everything affects your tonality.
- [18:43]
B
You know one of the things you told me when you're like, dude, you get, you, you, you let me work with you a little bit. You will get no cancellations because they're going to want it, they're going to see it. It's not like they'll never feel sold.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Can you explain that concept?
- [18:58]
A
Well, okay, the, the, the highest form of persuasion is getting a Human being to persuade themselves, right? So Tony Robbins talks a lot about this. I like to take it a step further. The number one way to influence is to emotionally connect with that other prospect. Where they feel like you understand them. Where you're going there first. Where they, they feel like you understand their, their, their needs, their wants, their desires, even their fears. Without buying into their story. What is their story? We don't need it now. Come back later. I'm too busy. Now's not a good time. I can't afford it. See, those are all stories. So if you buy into their story, you offer them no value. If you can't master emotionally open up that prospect. What happens is when you ask questions, they'll give you vague, generalized surface level answers, right? And as you know, Cini talks about the human beings buy on logic or emotion.
- [19:52]
B
So here's my question, because I'm a big fan and I know this is probably the future of, of your business. 7th level. Dan asked me, he goes, what would happen if you needed a 20 extra business next year? You know what my answer was?
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A
What?
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B
I would need to become the best recruiter on the planet. I would need to hire A plus players only every day by the dozens.
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A
Yeah.
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B
What's the fastest road to mastery with what you teach?
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A
Well, most people believe you can master anything by book. As you know, that's really hard. So you have to watch training courses, videos, and you got to write down stuff. It's not enough to watch it. You got to write it down and you got to rehearse it. So if you're in sales, and let's say you always get this objection. And let's say you're in one of my courses and I teach you pre framing techniques to help prevent that. Objection. If you just watched me 20 times, it's not going to be enough. It's like a Hollywood actor or actress, right? Like everything they say in the movie is 100% scripted. Right. Yet does it sound scripted?
- [20:54]
B
Learning the script, that's what I talk about with actors.
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A
They master.
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B
I think I learned that from you.
- [20:58]
A
They master. They mastered the tonality, the facial expressions, the body language, the tone. It's the same in sales. Like, what's your, what's your number one thing? If you're a sales professional right now or a business owner or you're trying to persuade anything, what, what's the number one thing that determines how much you're gonna make your skill level? So you might want to spend some time on developing that skill level and money if that determines how much you're gonna make. Most salespeople don't. They're dabblers or wingers.
- [21:25]
B
You know, I had a guy walk up to me from Northern Arizona. He lives in Prescott, and we walked out of a meeting, and this was about five years ago, and a tear ran down his eyes, and he goes, I'm sorry I let you down. And I go, dude, you're number two in the company. It's a big company. You know, we've got over at that time, probably 100 technicians. And he goes, yeah, but I promised you I'd be number one. I'm really trying to figure out how to identify these people, because I'm not Starbucks. I can't fix people. I don't have a decade. I want to find these people with a chip on their shoulder that want to win so bad, like me.
- [22:01]
A
Tony Robbins talks a lot about this. You know, I. I went to his date of. Of destiny. He talks a lot about, like, a lot of people feel like, oh, you know, when you're hiring employees, you got to find the right fit. How are you ever going to scale your company if the only people you hire are a right culture fit? Like, that's just going to be hard once you pass maybe 50 or 100 people to actually do that. I believe kind of like Tony talks about, that you can quickly reframe people into different belief systems that maybe they didn't realize they had before. It's. It's not necessarily just. I find this one personality. It's just like the personalities that you have, how do you manage them and how do you shift them into different belief systems or personalities?
- [22:45]
B
I was listening to Pat. Pat David, Patrick McDavid.
- [22:48]
A
Yeah.
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B
And he had this little glimpse where he said, you know, you want to tell the. The true character of somebody is when they make all their money and then see what they do afterwards. And I just smiled because I'm like. I flipped the page and went back to work.
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A
Money. Money can change people. You know, it's. It's just. It's just how you react. I mean, it's just I've seen people that, you know, were making hardly any money and then became, you know, multi, multi millionaires and then got arrogant and cocky and thought they knew everything and eventually lost it all, you know, so you gotta. To me, I'm always just trying to. Trying to learn from other people who are above my pay grade.
- [23:20]
B
Yeah. And, like, I'm still getting, like, we still haven't figured out everything, but I still want you to build A custom program for a home service, specifically garage doors.
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A
Well, we're talking about this AI thing. I'm pretty excited.
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B
Yeah, no, there's going to be.
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A
That's going to be freaking badass ask. It's like, it's like chat gdp. Like, hey, I sell, you know, we're going to take this to all industries. Like I sell, you know, I sell it services to trucking companies. What would Jeremy say in a cold calling, I solve this problem, this problem, this problem. What would he say that would actually trigger the prospect to let their guard down and become curious.
- [23:51]
B
If someone gave you $10 million tomorrow, what would you invest it in?
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A
I'd probably diversify to probably call pace Real Estate. I, you know, my financial guy is really good mer prize. Invest some there. I just kind of diversified. I'm, I'm, I'm not a big. I took a lot of risk in my late 20s and early 30s and I lost millions of dollars on friends startups. And so I learned from those mistakes and a little bit more conservative with my, my investments now.
- [24:18]
B
I forgot how do people get a hold of you?
- [24:20]
A
Yeah, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna do this. So we're gonna give them a copy of this. This is called nepq Black Book of questions. This is a second edition. I just redid this a while ago. Added about twice as much content, more industry specific examples.
- [24:33]
B
The black book of Questions, nepq. You guys need to get this. You're gonna want that. Guys, it's seriously, Jeremy, by far the best, best sales trainer out there.
- [24:43]
A
Well, at least my grandma told me that. I really appreciate you, man. You're a good friend and I love coming to your super bowl parties and you got a birthday coming up, so happy birthday.
- [24:52]
B
Thank you.
- [24:53]
A
Appreciate you anytime. All right.
- [24:55]
B
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. Number one, work on yourself. Readers are leaders. Read a lot, get a great mentor, get educated as much as possible. Be genuinely curious and stay curious for the rest of your life. Keep your credit score high. Your personal credit, then it moves into business credit. So make sure your personal credit is everything. It's how you get loans, it's how you go to the sba. Discipline is so important. Start with the hard things. If you don't treat your body like a temple, eat right, put the right stuff in your body, get the right sleep, you're going to go through life half assuming, and that's it. Guys, we'll talk to you next week.