B (2:34)

uncle or it was his uncle.

A (2:36)

You want to talk a little bit about that?

B (2:38)

This is a really important lesson, I think, for young people. He comes out of college and he's been taught to wind up and attack things. We teach these kids, oh, take this test, do this extracurricular, do this all. And he gets a job as a salesperson. They're actually selling those devices that go on clothes. When you're in the clothing store, they have to remove. He was selling those things and he did a really good job at it. He was making like over 200k. And this is 30 years ago, so that's a lot of money. And he's out to dinner with his uncle and his uncle says, what are you doing? You've wanted to be in restaurants your entire life. Why don't you go start a restaurant? And I think many of us don't have that uncle in our lives that tell us it's okay to go do this thing. I think so many of us push children towards these safe jobs versus allowing them to do something that they're just super passionate about. So I think his uncle did something that I hope this book can do for a whole bunch of people, which is give them the permission to dream a little bit about what they really want, what they really love to do. You know, Danny, from that moment, you know, took a job, as you mentioned, at a restaurant that had, I think, one tenth the salary of what he was making. And then he went on a 12 month learning journey which included being a stage in Europe. And he did that and then came back with just an unbelievable amount of curiosity, information and differentiation. And he's gone on to be probably New York's most successful single restaurateur and for a broader audience after that, he came up with the idea for Shake Shack and launched that as well. So. And I mean, it just goes to show, if you. If someone has this deep, deep obsession with an industry and then they can get in and succeed, the. The impact they have is so huge. One of the reasons I was so. I don't know if this makes any sense to you at all, but one of the reasons I was so excited about writing the book is when I find these stories of people that make that kind of pivot and then have that kind of impact, it gives me, like, dopamine. I. I get like, goosebumps. Like, I get. It's like watching a great movie or something. I just really love those stories.

A (5:15)

They're fun Stories, you know, I, I took a lot of notes out of that book. I love the order of priorities. He put employees first, then guests, suppliers, and last is investors. And he said what he's learned to do. And this is such a great observation hire for emotional intelligence. And my question for you is, look, I'm obsessed. I mean, some people call me a maniac, some people call me look, I love my industry. I'm super focused and I'm just curious. You got this innate ability to see things in people. I mean, in vcs, you're taking a big gamble, but for you it was. Seemed like it worked almost every time. I'm sure there was some losses, but. But you really, like, look, the resume I read off was like a tenth of what you've invested in. I think you've done grubhub. You were a big part of Twitter. I mean, look, end of the day, what do you see in people that really gives you the ultimate advantage from your point of view? Gary Vee last week said, I don't want to see what your wireframes are. I need to see real life working. Like, I don't want to see your dreams. What are some of the questions you ask? How do you recognize these winners? I just want to see how success leaves clues on this.

B (6:28)

I'm going to answer the question as a venture capitalist, Tommy, and talk about business founders rather than writ large because that's the, that's the, the one I've had the most pattern recognition and most at bats doing. The first thing is they need to be like doggedly determined. I think the best entrepreneurs look like someone who is going to do this no matter what, recognizes that they're in some opportunity because of the product they have the market disruption that's happening. AI is a good example. And they're going to run at it so hard that you're never going to question how much they're going to leave on the field. You know, using a sports analogy, I once got to ask Jeff Bezos how he was able to be so successful as an angel investor while he's running, you know, one of the most successful companies in the world that was growing to be one of the largest companies in the world. And he said, I, I want to know that they're going to do this no matter what. Like, that's the only variable he sorted on. So that's one. I think salesmanship is super important. You need to be the, the, the founder of a company becomes the chief sales officer of the company. They're not only Selling customers, they're selling, they're recruiting employees, they're retaining employees. They own the, the responsibility for the culture of the company and they own the responsibility for marketing the company externally. That's a lot of selling. And then you have biz dev deals, incremental investors, you know, they're just selling constantly. And different people sell in very different ways. There are people that can do it quietly, there are people that do it, you know, bombastically. There's all kind. But you do need to be effective as a salesperson representing what you're doing. And so that's another one. That's the one that I think most people miss. Like, but it's so super important.

A (8:34)

You know, I went through the first three, three chapters of Michael Porter's Competitive Advantage and unfortunately I do have an mba. I didn't learn much from that program. But I like the idea of differentiation, like in a fragmented industry. I mean, you were dead on when you said study those first three chapters. You get a lot out of that. I would add one thing that I'm curious about. Well, you could speak to that real quick.

B (8:59)

There's an anti MBA meme that's spread quite broadly in Silicon Valley and even Elon and others like to jump and pile on it. And I think the corollary to that is many founders have a blind spot in not understanding business strategy and that there are people that have built different frameworks and models and those can be helpful to you. I think you owe it to yourself to try and understand some of the rudimentary frameworks that people have developed. And competitive strategy is one of the best ones. I think knowing if you're going to be a low cost producer or a differentiated player is like critically important. And if you get stuck in that middle where Porter draws the U at the bottom, it's dangerous. It's a dangerous place to have your company operating.

A (9:48)

I meet a lot of people that tell me what they're going to do and they have a very big dream and there's a little bit of ego. I've tried to stay humble, keep my humility, no matter how much success. I want to be the dumbest guy in the room. In my 20s I said I could figure anything out if I study. And then I started saying who, not how and how much does humility and being able to listen and being able to be in a board and actually take advice, play into the success of some of the investments you've made.

B (10:19)

I think those are critical characteristics for an investor because you have limited ability to influence. And you have to build the right to influence through some of the nuances you just talked about. I, I don't know. On the founder side, I don't know if those things are a requirement. I mean I certainly know some wildly successful founders who might not register on the listening or humility scale.

A (10:50)

I mean it's, it's a fine line between just pure cockiness because you see a lot of players that don't add up to anything. They don't take feedback. And I think that's one of the most important things is can you handle feedback? Because I'm going to pull the best out of you.

B (11:03)

There's two things I would say. One, the similarity, the real similarity, and I think it's a form of humility is, is how hard do you practice? You know, and I would say the equivalent of practice in a business context is, is continuous learning, which is the second principle in my book and something I'm very passionate about. And if you're training, let's use that word because that's a word that crosses both. Are you training to make yourself better all the time. And in sports and even in things like ballet and some of the arts, that, that is a given. Everyone accepts it. People are madly appreciative of someone that puts in 12 hours a day to be a great ballet dancer. Right. Or Tom Brady. But we don't talk about it that pro, that, that, that technique is much in business. And if you're, you know, in your spare time working to make yourself better at what you do, which may be very, maybe a very common thing for a founder or CEO, but I, I, I'm saying even if you're three levels down in the Oregon, you're in accounting or marketing, are you working to improve how good you are at that outside the walls of the company? Like not, not just doing what they tell you to do. And I think we've made college such a grind that a lot of these young adults, they get to the end and they're like, I can't wait to not study anymore. I just want to work. And it's a shame because, and it's one of the reasons why I think people that are able to find a lane that's really their dream job have such an advantage because the learning's free, the practice is free. Tommy. Like, like if you talk to the Tom Brady's or the Jordans of the world, like they didn't view practice as onerous. It was something that they wanted to do. You know, I think that's the through line between kind of great athletes and great executives and business people.

C (13:04)

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A (13:35)

Yeah, one of the things we talk about internally here is the law of the lid. And not just with me, the founder, CEO, but each department has to continue to raise the bar outside of work or they're not going to have a place on the bus. I'm sorry, what got you here? Can't get you to the next level. You talk about build your bedrock, and I was overwhelmed just researching the heck out of you. And just every single interview you've done is like, five books. And, hey, I just. Last week I devoured this book, and I'm going, how in the hell am I supposed to, like, keep up? I mean, you are just. You're passionate about continuous learning and improvement, obviously, but how do you see your schedule? How do you. How do you look at learning and how do you prioritize that?

B (14:19)

I talk about in the book that the first principle is chase your curiosity. Find this. This thing that you're so enamored with, that. That you think about it all the time. And then the second one is hone your craft, which is this continuous learning element. And I think there's a really amazing link between the two of them, Tommy, which is if you love this subject matter, you pick up stuff and read it like. Like you would a. You know, you devour it like someone else might do a Netflix show. And so I think for people that are obsessed with what they do, they're able to. Well, first of all, it doesn't feel like work. So, you know, if. If continuous learning sucks energy from you, then you're not available for the family life when you're at home, all this stuff, because it's more of the grind of the day, and then you're worn out. If it gives you energy to learn about your field, it. I say it comes for free.

A (15:26)

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, you know, this brings me to the Power of Regret by Daniel Pink. Four types of regret. The biggest one is Boldness, regrets. I wish I had started. I should have taken that shot. Time passes. The opportunity doesn't come back. I think that was one of the other books that you really provoked you to write. Is it one of the three?

B (15:50)

No, no, the three were biographies. It was Danny Meyer, Bobby Knight, and Bob Dylan. They came from very different fields. But as I decided to turn what was this speech into a book, I spent about six years working on it because I wanted it to be really great. And so I went and read probably a hundred biographies and then went and read a whole bunch of books from the academics who had studied career the most, including the Daniel Pink book. So that's how I came upon that. But yeah, Daniel highlights that in a whole bunch of different cultures and societies, the regrets that, that weigh on you as you get into your later years are the things you didn't do. Humans are really good at forgiving themselves for mistakes, like regrets of mistakes. We're. We're really. We're programmed, well, to be like, well, you know, I learned something and it's over. You don't ruminate on it. But the thing you never did that you knew you always wanted to do, weighs more and more and more and more. I did it a different way. On my way up, I said to myself, in each job I was in, I would reflect every year or so and go, is this what I want to be doing for the rest of my life for 30 years? Do I see myself, you know, still at this company and, you know, in this field 30 years from now and am I happy? And twice the answer to that was no. And I started looking for.

A (17:17)

The next thing you know, there's this saying, eliminate, automate or delegate. And I think that's kind of what Elon does as well, is remove it, make it simple. And I think the problem with most people, especially in businesses, we. We crave perfection. It's never the right time. And sometimes you just gotta fail forward and get started and go at it and figure out, hey, I missed the bullseye. I missed the target seven times. But the other guy didn't even load the gun. Now, right in bullseyes every time. Steve Jobs was amazing. You talk about a guy in China. Who's the new Steve Jobs? I forget his name.

B (17:50)

Lejeun. Lejeun. Yeah, he's the. He's the founder and CEO of Xiaomi. You may have seen there were a few videos popping around in the past month where they sent one of their cars to a US influencer and who drove them around.

A (18:09)

Who is Somebody, and it doesn't need to be somebody you know personally, but you know more people and more people at the top than any anybody I know who has been your best mentor, whether you knew them or not.

B (18:19)

Guy that I've spent a ton of time with over the past 20 years is rich Barton, a founder of Zillow who also founded Expedia before that. Rich has one element that I have found rare. I'm not going to say there's no one with this skill set, but it's very rare. He's really amazing at strategy and business and all of those wonderful things. And he's simultaneously kind of a plus plus as a leader and understanding leadership and what it takes to lead people. And I have found over the years, most people tend to spike on one of those and not the other. Like, I'm more the strategy person. I'm not all that skilled at this other softer side. And I. It's rare to see the same, to see both those things in one person. And so he's a, he's a go to for me on advice because of his ability to have both of those. A lot of the, the biggest problems in business that a company deals with may cross both of those. Like it may involve needing to, to have a good feel for both of those elements.

A (19:35)

Yeah, no, 100%, I, I think leadership. Yeah, it's one of those things. You're not born with it. There's certain things in school and in your past, nature versus nurture that you kind of get. But leadership is something that, it's very difficult. And I think the, A good book is Leaders Eat Last is putting people above you. And really I call them co workers because I need them to win. I wrote a book called Elevate. Build a business where everybody wins, but your dream's gotta be big enough for the people inside your company to come true.

B (20:03)

When you said that, I immediately thought of one of the. One of the more interesting characters in my book is Chris Del Conte, the athletic director at the University of Texas here in Austin. And I was at an event. I don't know if it was this past fall or the one before, but there's a, there's a. You know, it's part of the football stadium. There's a big event. There's a whole bunch of people in this room, several hundred. And I'm talking to Chris and he looks over and sees a piece of trash on the floor. And there's probably 15 service professionals within, within 50ft of us. And he runs over and Immediately grabs a napkin and wipes it up and throws it away. And I suspect he does that all the time. You know, like, I suspect he does that all the time. And he's, he's. He's showing those people that there's no task beneath him. He's showing them that, and he's showing them that he cares about every little detail and how it looks and like, it's such. I was so impressed when he did that. And he probably thought nothing of it, like, because it's probably instinctual for him now. But I love, I love stuff like that.

A (21:19)

You probably have one of the largest appetites for risk. I mean, that's kind of the VC motto. I, I think that's something that a lot of people just don't have. It's like they'll bet on themselves. There's some uncertainty, but you've been pretty good at making the right assumptions. Is there ever at a time where you were like, I don't know if this is going to work, but I feel good about it. But hindsight, it was the best decision you've ever made.

B (21:47)

I'm certain that's happened a whole bunch. You know, there's this wonderful graph someone came up with that on the bottom axis has what you really know, and on the left axis has what you think you know. And anytime you jump into a new endeavor where you're. You're quite ignorant relative to everyone else, the first few. First few periods of learning, it might be a month or, or weeks or whatever, might be a year. As you start to learn, you realize what you don't know, and you're. What you think you know drops because you develop this insecurity. Like, oh, shit, there's so much I don't know. And, And I've. I've had that in my career a couple different times. But if you keep pushing through, you eventually reach the bottom of that, you. And you start going back up again. And that's, that's where you really gain confidence. I was, I was talking to a young adult that I, That I was mentoring about this because it jumped in a new career, and the first, you know, four months was just overwhelming. I don't know this. I don't know this. I don't know this. And I'm like, calm down. Take a deep breath. You know, find some peers, find some mentors. Tell them what you're going through. Be vulnerable. Don't ever pretend you know something you don't. If you're in that first window of learning, the. Your best friend Anytime you hear a phrase you don't know, a concept you don't know, you say out loud, I don't know what that is. Tell me what that is. Like, if someone asks you a question that you don't understand, say, can you redescribe that? I don't know what that word means. I don't know what you're trying to get at, because that is how you will learn the fastest. And they won't disrespect you for it. They'll respect you for it. But your intuition might suggest the opposite.

A (23:40)

You've been a big part of so many companies. Which one. Which one was your favorite?

B (23:46)

Look, I mean, I don't think there's any way to escape the reality that the biggest outcome I was involved with is Uber. Obviously, you know, not. Not just because of the size of the. Of the investment return, but the impact on the planet, like, that it's had and how much it's touched, you know, so many different corners of the world. And so, like, that just is what it is. The one that is most intellectually interesting is probably Open Table, which came before Uber. And really, kind of the success of that led me to Uber. But, you know, we funded Open Table when there were three restaurants, and we had this idea that if you could get the network effects to work, that as you got bigger, it would get easier. And that was a theory that we invested behind. We really never lost faith that the network effect would play out. And then it started to work. And I can remember being with my wife in Bali, going into a restaurant and seeing that device on the table in Bali when we started with three restaurants in San Francisco. And I'm like, wow. Like, it really. It really worked like we thought it would.

A (25:05)

There's this whole framework of changing the industry, and this is exactly. Instead of competing with. With taxis, Uber changed the game. And you thought you were competing with the taxicabs and the medallions of the world.

B (25:20)

Yeah, yeah. There's a. There's a famous professor in. NYU that wrote this piece that said that Uber would never be worth more than 4 billion. And he used the taxi market as his tam. Total available market is a business word people like to throw around. And when he wrote that, I would. I mean, I had a bit of an unfair advantage. I. I wrote a rebuttal that. That got quite a bit of press, but I. I had an advantage, and I knew in San Francisco we were already 20 times bigger than the taxi market at the time he wrote it. And. And when in that in that article, in my rebuttal I, I gave this famous, I think McKinsey analysis that the entire market for cell phones would be 900,000 units, which, which was off by several orders of magnitude. And the more I thought about it like there was just this potential to replace car ownership. And in many cities across this country, if you launch a business, there is a database that the government controls that dictates how many parking spots you're supposed to have. And this has caused massive urban sprawl. In Houston and la, there are four times as many parking spots as cars. Because of this, like we designed the country for cars. The city of Austin three years ago wiped out all their parking attachment requirements. And so in doing that you have the potential to design more downtown areas, more like Manhattan where not everyone owns a car. And then all of a sudden that's why I think Uber is going to continue to see growth for like 20 or 30 years. Because that process will take so long to play out though this one where we build denser downtown areas more intelligently. But I think it's going to happen, oh 100%.

A (27:21)

You get all that space back, the parking garages, all those things. Yeah. By the way, I am enjoying the hell out of this. And just to get a piece of your time, I can't tell you how much it means to me and the audience. What's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you could tell yourself in your twenties?

B (27:36)

I mean the, the thing that pops in my mind is just this, this read concept. I for whatever reason was never much of a reader in high school and even in my first job as a engineer, I didn't read much. Something about going to the MBA program, maybe the, the free time that popped up. I just started reading and it. Once it, the bit flipped for me, Tommy. It, it was night and day. I went from none to all the time. And I don't. It may be hard to just tell someone to do because if it's not something and I. A lot of young people, man, I guess with all the social media and stuff, when I mentioned you should read this, like I see eyes glaze over. So this may be like. And, and look, you can get information from AI or podcast or YouTube. It doesn't need to be a book necessarily. But this, this like finding information that can help propel you forward and consuming it is, is a superpower. The Toby from Shopify who with all the stuff that you love to dig into, like if, if your listeners ever have a chance to listen to a Toby podcast any interview tease so thoughtful and willing to share. And so he sits down and talks. But he on a recent podcast said the same thing. He's like reading, reading a book is the biggest free hack that you could possibly have. Like somebody just spent, took a lifetime of learning and synthesized it in a book and you get to read it and know that immediately. He's like, that's unbelievable.

A (29:19)

You know, I got to talk to you about this real quick because we look at China and Eastern civilization and they're very excited about AI. Obviously there's some caution that goes behind that VCs are only investing in AI. I'm just curious because I've had some deep conversations with people that are at a different league than I am, that are know a lot more than me. And what I'm hearing is, you know, robotics are coming, Optimus is coming. They're going to be able to put the grock and, and chat gbts of the world. Open AI Sam Albin into the, in the robots. Blue collar is pretty safe for the, for the short term, but it's kind of disturbing and I'm a little bit, there's going to be some chaos. And I'm just curious your point of view.

B (30:04)

You know, there was a time in North America where 98% of the people were employed in agriculture and that number's less than 2% today. And technology creates waves. We evolve with our tools, we get more productive. And what has happened historically is new jobs have popped up and people go to do new things. If you follow the traditional educational path and get in this big machine that we've created that everyone uses, which is the college university system and you get, yeah, you get one of those safe jobs or so called safe jobs, you know, where you're, you're graduating with a hundred people that got the exact same degree you do. You're a bit of a widget. You're a widget that came out of this massive production machine that we've created. And I suspect that if you're a widget, AI looks daunting. Like it's this thing that might come and do what I do. You're a unit of one. You're this, you're this individual who has a destination in mind and you're doing everything you can to make yourself better. I think those people, AI is a superpower. It's like jet fuel. It's like the, as I said, like if you want to self learn, it's never been easier. This thing is your companion that will take you on that entire journey. And I just think it's like highly ironic that one group of people could sit here and say, oh my God, it's coming for me. I'm afraid. And another group of people are like, oh my God, do you see what I just did? Do you see what I just learned? Like, this thing can do things for you. It can help you start a business with fewer employees. Like, it can, you know, it can do all these wonderful things. And so I think a lot of it's about mindset, man, and, and whether you are charting your own individual path. Because if you are, I think it's 180 degrees different. This is not something to be afraid of. This is something that's going to give you even more, better, higher chances of success.

A (32:23)

I love this. I can't say how much I love this. You know, I had a really several encounters with Gino Wickman and he's the Eos, basically inventor. He wrote a book called Shine. And he said, Tommy, I sold 87 and a half percent of the business and I had pockets of gold everywhere. I mean, there was money coming out the ying yang, but I felt this great emptiness, like I lost a piece of my soul. And I just read Viktor Frankl's book again, A Man's Search for Meaning. And you know, I try not to tie up the business with the meaning of life, but that's where I get a lot of my accomplishments. That's the people I hang out with, it's a lot of the people I care about, and it's the pursuit of the goal. But a lot of people are just waiting for that final destination and they're saying everything's going to change. And you've been through this so many times. What's your advice to people that are trying to hit this pinnacle?

B (33:12)

From all these people that I've studied, that there are people like you and me, you know, all over this planet that love every day of their career. Not every day you have bad days, but, but, but that love the journey, as you say, that the middle parts. And if you are grinding your butt off because you think, oh, once I get this award or this place or this spot, I'm going to stop and be so happy that I achieved it that I didn't mind. I just don't think that's a reality. I think it'll, when you get there, it'll just appear a bit hollow and you'll just feel the need to keep climbing. And you're. But if you're climbing without energy, like I I don't, I don't think it'll work. And by energy, it was what I was referring to either the earlier the, that people that are in their lane, that they love, they get energy every single day. Every time they unlock something new, every time they figure something out like it, it gives them energy. Angela Duckworth gave a graduation speech where he's. She talked about how parameciums move towards warmth and nutrients, like that's their only operating function, warp the nutrients. And she said that people should do that in their career. You know, like if there's some engagement or task in your job that when you do it, it feels good and warm and like you get energy from it. Do more of that, like head in that direction. And it may be that that's a hobby, like so many of the people we studied turn hobbies into careers. You know, if you're at home in your spare time doing something that gives you that energy, those warmth and nutrients, you should consider whether or not you could have a career doing that. A lot of cases you can. There's a guy, there's a guy here in Austin, Tommy, named Burt Beveridge, who in his spare time like to make flavored vodka and give it to his friends as gifts. When he was 40, after being a seismologist and a mortgage broker, he started a tiny little vodka company called Tito's, which is now the number one selling beverage and company in North America. And he owns 100% of the thing. 100%.

A (35:35)

You know, my niece and nephews, I got two nephews and one niece. My niece is at Madison in Wisconsin and I can't wait for her to read this. And I can't wait for my sister and my brother in law to read this book.

B (35:47)

This has been my, my favorite part of the book, getting into the hands of people, which is a weird experience. But, but new to me is so many of the people that have read the book. Tommy, come back with what you just did, which is I know four people, I immediately want to be able to read it. And I love that element of it. And, and it's not. It also means that the book's not just targeted at people who are experiencing their own career or working on their own career, but the people that advise, you know, people, which includes parents and counselors and friends and uncles and aunts. Like, I think everyone can benefit of us that are out there that can see perhaps a twinkle in someone's eye and tell them it's okay to go do that. In fact, you should go do that. Let me help you go do that. A lot of people, a lot of well intentioned parents, very well intentioned parents, and I've lived through this. You, you worry so much about the economic stability, the potential economic stability of the young adult that you don't realize it, but you're, you're, you're telling them to go do something for the wrong reason.

A (37:04)

Bill, I'm a, I'm a massive fan of you. I think you're a giver. You, you're well studied. You're. You're the epitome of success and you're, you're giving back to us. And I can't wait to get my hands on the book. I'll work this out with your team, but why don't you close us out? Maybe a couple more highlights from the book and anything you want to close out on for the audience.

B (37:24)

I just want to give people the motivation and the methods to chase their dream and to really believe in it and the confidence and permission to go do it. And I'm not going to say that the traditional education or career path is like 100% broken and no one should do it. I think it works for a lot of people. But if you feel like it's not working or you didn't get there or you're not finding your way, this is an alternate door that I would heavily encourage you to consider because I think it allows you to build a crafted career for you and you become this candidate of one that's really unique and stands out and has the best chance at success. I love it, Bill.

A (38:09)

Well, listen, I'll look you up when I go to Austin and. All right, man, I know you're a busy man, but I really appreciate the time today and I hope you have the best week ever. Thanks, Bill.

B (38:17)

Take care.

A (38:18)

Appreciate it. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. If I was 20 years old again and I wanted to make a million dollars as quick as possible, here's exactly how I do it. The first thing is I need to get the education. I need to figure out a way to make money. So I need to find out a trade, something I could go duplicate very, very quickly. So what I would do is I'd probably go to an H VAC guy or a roofing guy. I get an apprenticeship. I'm not just trying to get to my first million. I'm trying to get to my first billion, so I need skills. And what I'd also do is get a bartending job when I'm 20. So I'm getting a free education. I'm giving free labor away to get educated by this billionaire H Vac guy. I'm getting money, which you can make 500 bucks a night at a good bar. I'm learning about hospitality. By the time I'm 25, I've got 10 million in the bank, and that's it. Guys, we'll talk to you next week.