Wired to Achieve: The Psychology of Being Driven with Dr. Douglas Brackmann

Summary

Podcast Summary: Wired to Achieve — The Psychology of Being Driven

Podcast: The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello
Host: Tommy Mello (Mello Studios)
Guest: Dr. Douglas Brackman
Release Date: October 24, 2025
Episode Theme: Understanding the psychology of high achievers, exploring what it means to be genetically “driven,” how to channel relentless energy, and the challenges and fulfillment attached to this wiring.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, billionaire entrepreneur Tommy Mello sits down with psychologist and author Dr. Douglas Brackman, whose acclaimed book Driven: Understanding and Harnessing Your Genetic Gifts dissects what propels high-achievers — the “drivens” of society. Tommy and Dr. Brackman dive deep into how genetically driven people can harness their energy, prevent self-sabotage, and create meaningful achievement. They unpack the psychology, biology, and real-world challenges of being relentlessly ambitious, and offer advice for finding fulfillment and balance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the "Driven" Personality

• Dr. Brackman argues that 10% of the population possesses a genetic wiring that drives them to restlessness and relentless pursuit ("driven").
  • [00:00] “It is time for us to actually step up as drivens and own what we are… A lot of us… are destroying this fricking world. The big picture is… we gotta get out of this quarterly profit.” – Dr. Brackman
• Driven individuals are designed for mastery and for recovery from trauma unlike others.
  • [00:40] “They are designed to heal from trauma like no other.” – Dr. Brackman

2. Origin Stories & Early Struggles

• Dr. Brackman recounts his youth feeling out of place, dropping out, addictions, and how these ultimately fueled his psychology career.
  • [02:05–04:15] His candid story, going from high school dropout to achieving two PhDs, underscores the “driven” need to solve their own mysteries.
  • “Anyone as a psychologist that doesn’t tell you they’re getting into psychology to figure out their own shit is lying.” – Dr. Brackman [03:56]
• The driven’s challenges are often internal, not external.
  • “The greatest problem you have and really the only problem you have is yourself.” – Dr. Brackman [00:28]

3. Restless Pursuit vs. Satisfaction

• Driven individuals are naturally unsatisfied and motivated by “the next mountain.” Satisfaction is fleeting; reflection is rare.
  • Tommy describes his own restlessness: “I always reach the top of this mountain and I look over and there’s another mountain that’s way bigger.” [08:16]
  • Dr. Brackman adds: “I’m wired for chronic discontent… I can run circles around most people’s thinking. The gift that we have—and the curse—is this big picture thinking. We see it all.” [09:21]

4. Identity, Mastery & Humility

• True mastery requires humility, self-reflection, and systems/processes—not just raw ambition.
  • Tommy shares about a coach who forced him to slow down and document everything, leading to foundational improvements.
    • “He said, ‘I want you to stop learning… until you learn these principles and you execute them flawlessly.’” – Tommy [06:21]
  • Dr. Brackman: “Humility is the capacity to be honest with yourself. Most of us learn that through getting clipped in the knees with a bat.” [07:03]

5. Balance Is a Myth

• The myth of balance: Life is about constant course correction, not equilibrium.
  • “As they say in driven, balance is bullshit. It truly is balancing-ing. You’re in a constant state of course correction.” – Dr. Brackman [08:22]
  • The “Fs”: friends, family, fitness, finance, fun, faith—all interconnected.

6. Dangers of Urgency & Addiction to Speed

• The “driven” often move with relentless urgency, which can sabotage success.
  • “Urgency is sabotage. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” – Dr. Brackman [17:26]
• Tommy confesses to always rushing, often to the discomfort of less driven collaborators.
  • “There’s this burning desire to go faster for me.… The movement, the way AI is working now, things are changing so fast.” – Tommy [16:38]
• Driven personalities must learn to decouple emotional urgency from genuine progress.

7. Meditation, Presence & Self-Reflection

• Meditation is crucial for driven individuals to “reality check”—not to relax but to center themselves.
  • “Meditation… is reality checking. It is not trying to relax. It is not trying to calm down.” – Dr. Brackman [11:41]
  • Tommy: “Be where your feet are, that’s the EQ… I always think, how is this coming off?” [13:00]
• Regular meditation, nature walks, and self-reflection fuel clear decision-making.

8. Teamwork, Empathy & the “Wolf Pack”

• Driven individuals often seek to build “wolf packs”—tight-knit teams of other drivens—because they intuitively understand (and trust) only a few.
  • Dr. Brackman distinguishes empaths (team builders, like Tommy) from “lone wolves” (e.g., Elon Musk).
    • “Every driven I’ve ever worked with… we crave to have others that really have our back.” – Dr. Brackman [15:09]
  • “Iron sharpens iron.” Peer groups of drivens allow for honesty, rapid feedback, and true accountability.
  • The value of open, honest, critical feedback among true peers:
    • “It allows me to compound faster because they’re some of the only people that could be honest with me.” – Tommy [24:35]

9. Motivation: Fulfillment Over Money

• True fulfillment comes from love, service, and deep relationships, not just financial achievement.
  • [23:21] “The only thing you give a shit about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love…” – Dr. Brackman
  • Tommy notes his drive was shaped by his parents’ divorce over money and a vow that finances would never hurt his family again.
  • The importance of building assets and relationships over racking up possessions.

10. Advice for the Next Generation & Book Recommendations

• On purpose, masculinity, and modern malaise: Many lack purpose because they’re unchallenged and not forced to struggle.
  • “Hard times make hard men… easy times create a break of masculinity, a break of value for creation and protecting.” – Dr. Brackman [31:05]
• The most important book to read? Yourself.
  • “The only book you actually really need to digest and fully eat is the Book of Self… Look in and run at that pain. That’s where you’re going to really find the truth.” – Dr. Brackman [34:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Douglas Brackman

  • “We are the ones in the human genome waiting for the next ice age. We’re waiting for the next shit to hit the fan.” [01:02]
  • “Driven is… designed for mastery. [We’re in a] constant state of continuous improvement.” [06:08]
  • “Urgency is sabotage. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” [17:26]
  • “Presence…. The ability to actually really understand and develop this direct relationship with presence… direct relationship with getting my central nervous system really calmed down.” [28:11]
  • “The only thing you care about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love? Don’t miss that.” [35:30]

• Tommy Mello

  • “If I respect somebody, I have seven coaches. If I respect somebody, I’m very curious. I’m listening. I’m taking notes, I’m delegating a lot.” [05:10]
  • “I always reach the top of this mountain and I look over and there’s another mountain that’s way bigger.” [08:16]
  • “Enough’s never enough with you. When’s enough enough? My mom asked me, when’s enough enough? And I go, why? Well, why not?” [08:57]
  • “If I really want to win at something, like, one of my core values here at the company is aspire to be number one. Like, why would you ever want to be number two?” [27:04]
  • “I tell my competitors, I say, you might not like me, but you’re welcome to come get trained by me. I’ll give them all the secrets.” [29:22]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dr. Brackman’s Background and Story: [02:05–04:15]
• Mastery and Humility: [06:08–07:42]
• Myth of Balance & The Driven’s “Curse”: [08:22–10:46]
• Urgency vs. Effective Action: [17:08–18:35]
• Meditation & Presence: [19:06–20:23]
• Wolf Pack, Empathy, and Teamwork: [15:09–16:11], [24:03–25:00]
• Money, Motivation, and Fulfillment: [20:23–22:05], [23:21–23:45]
• Advice on Reading and Introspection: [34:56–35:30]

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Wrap-up & Takeaways

• Being driven is not a flaw but a specific genetic wiring. Dr. Brackman and Tommy illuminate the strengths and dangers of the driven mind: thrill-seeking, endless ambition, big-picture thinking — and the internal dangers of never feeling “enough.”
• True fulfillment for the driven is found in meaning-making, love, and trusted peer relationships, not perpetual achievement or possessions.
• Reflection, humility, system-building, meditation, and assembling a supportive “wolf pack” are the cornerstones for harnessing drive without burning out or self-sabotage.
• Final Wisdom: On your deathbed, the only thing that matters: “Was I loved and did I love?” Don’t sacrifice the most important things for endless achievement.

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For driven entrepreneurs and high achievers, this episode is a masterclass in self-awareness, sustainable success, and the art of building both empires and meaningful lives.

Transcript

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

It is time for us to actually step up as drivens and own what we are. But a lot of us that are addicted to money, addicted to power, addicted to politics and all the other shit are destroying this fricking world. The big picture is, you know, we gotta get out of this quarterly profit.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

Focus, driven, gifted, focused. Dr. Douglas Brackman is a psychologist who specializes in studying the genetically gifted and talented.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

The greatest problem you have and really the only problem you have is yourself.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

He's the author of Driven understanding and harnessing your genetic gifts, a book that helps high achievers harness their unique wiring and channel their extraordinary drive.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

They are designed to heal from trauma like no other.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

With his dual PhDs in Clinical and Organizational Business Psychology, Dr. Brackman has put over 25 years of research into his work. Teaching entrepreneurs how to reduce self sabotaging behavior in order to maximize their potential. Doug's mission is clear, to help the top 10% of the population who are truly driven.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

We are the ones in the human genome waiting for the next ice age. We're waiting for the next shit to hit the fan.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

His goal is to not just help them to succeed, but to thrive. Showing leaders how to live with clarity, impact and fulfillment.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

All right guys, welcome back to the mellow millionaire. Today I got Douglas Brackman here. Dr. Brackman is a psychologist and author of driven understanding and harnessing your genetic gifts. He helps highly driven individuals harness their relentless energy and turn it into meaningful achievement. With decades of research and experience, he teaches people how to avoid self sabotaging behavior in order to reach their biggest and largest potential. Great to have you here.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Good to be here.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

I am pumped man, because I've read this book, I've analyzed the book, I chatgpt the book. This is the book guys. If you haven't read it, you gotta get this book. So tell us a little bit about the history of what made you write the book, where you're at today, what you're excited about in the future.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Fantastic. So I am a licensed psychologist and on the inside cover, my doctoral dissertation, Jim Spira, my dissertation chair said, not bad for a high school dropout. And so it good story. So second grade, third grade, I always talk about how I had this profound awareness that I was different. I didn't fit in. And as all little kids, they want to fit in. And so I knew I didn't fit in. But I did my damnedest to fit in. Sixth grade, I was the valedictorian in my class. I was perfect attendance, played the game all the way through seventh Grade I realized that didn't do anything for me. I didn't get any more attention to what's the point? And that then I discovered smoking pot. And it was 1979. Sex Pistols had just come out with all of their stuff. I went to London on a family trip in 1980 and looked at Piccadilly and looked at the punkers in the square. And I said, that will get my father's attention. And. And promptly got a mohawk and pierced my nipple and. And became a hardcore street punk from 81 to 85. And it was, I mean, Black Flag. And I mean, I was just running and gunning. Wound up and dropping outta high school at 16, 17. And from the first time I smoked freeboat, freebase cocaine to a lock psych ward was about four months.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

So at 18, April 22, 1986, I went into a lock psych ward. Floridly psychotic, 50 pounds lighter than I am now, that's 138 pounds.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

And dying. And 10 days in, I went to my first 12 step meeting and had a label. First time in my life I felt like there were other people that were like me. And I said, all right. Obviously, two PhDs later, I figured some shit out. But it is anyone as a psychologist that doesn't tell you they're getting into psychology to figure out their own shit is lying.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

That's interesting.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Unfortunately, a lot of psychologists get into it to cover up their shit. But I just went headfirst because I am really clear that if I don't really unravel this kind of mystery about what's controlling us as human beings, I was going to die. So I had an early couple of experiences of. Of existential complete crack being broken and that. Great time to be a shrink. Great time to be a psychologist. And that's my joke about all the guys I work with, including you. You are unemployable. And so you have to create your own company. And that unemployable means that it's simply all the drivens. We work well with others, but we do not work for others. And so that capacity to actually really understand who is, who is our boss and what is our boss is, is how to harness this driven thing.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

So we built this company to damn near $30 million of EBITDA originally. And I knew it was time to get a deeper pocket, to be able to scale faster. And, you know, we did the Q of E, the studies, we did all these things to get a deal done. And the question mark from a lot of the Sponsors, they were talking in the background to each other. I didn't even know this till a year later, but they were like, do you think we could work with a guy like Tommy? Do you think he'll listen? Do you think? And the fact is, if I respect somebody, I have seven coaches. If I respect somebody, I'm very curious. I'm listening. I'm taking notes, I'm delegating a lot. I mean, it's hard for me to actually want to sit down and just. I whiteboard all the time, and I plan things and I work on systems. But the best compliment I've ever received probably, was you were the best student we've ever had.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

The conclusion of Driven is that we are designed for mastery.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Constant state of continuous improvement. And once you get that, once you can understand that is truly the world we're designed to live in.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

How did you find that?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Well, I think 2017, I met a coach that knew more than I did, and he almost fired me three times. We had a box to put my cell phone in. And he said, I want you to stop learning and reading until you. Until you learn these principles and you execute them flawlessly. I need you to slow down and document everything. Are you allowed to have a beer? Are you allowed to call in sick the same day? Like, I want you to build this manual with me. 70 pages. We had a couple other guys in there, and I had to slow down, and it was really difficult for me. And I'm like, man, can't we just, like, copy somebody else's and make the changes? And he's like, this is so important. We gotta create the system. It was hard, but I was genuinely interested.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

That's the piece. And you had developed humility. And humility is the capacity to be honest with yourself. Most of us learn that through getting clipped in the knees with a bat. That's my cocaine and everything else. And if it lights up our dopamine. If you see that this guy is doing something I can't, and I want what he has. What was it that coach had?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

He was an authority figure. He was in his late 60s. I knew he was the Godfather. And he says, you are the best student I've ever worked with. You took what I had, and you took it to the next level.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Oh, so he saw you.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Well, he came into my office and he said, hey, dude, why is our calendar is all over the wall? I could steal your own, your whole warehouse with your own forklift. You wouldn't even know about it. He goes, everything's in your brain. You don't have a manual. You don't have SOPs, you don't have structure, you don't have systems. And he said, once you get the checklist and the things I'm going to teach you, everything's locked in your brain. Let's unlock all this stuff. And that, to me, took a lot of patience. And once it was done, I'm like, man, I was a believer. Like, people are like, why do you don't you got to figure it out? I'm like, no, I don't. There's a lot of things, and there's a lot more than finance. There's faith, there's family, There's. You know, I'm not balanced. I'm not and I never will be.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

As they say in driven, balance is bullshit. It truly is balancing ing. You're in a constant state of course correction. And the way I do it, you know, I do the Fs and friends, family, fitness, finance, fun, faith. And so that capacity to see how they're all interconnected, and it's one big.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Thing, you know, One of the things I learned a couple of years ago is I never reflected. Ever. I never looked in the rearview mirror. Now, the review mirror is tiny compared to the windshield, but I always tell my team I'm always happy. I'm really excited to meet our goals, but I'm never satisfied.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

There it is.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

They say, enough's never enough with you. When's enough enough? My mom asked me, when's enough enough? And I go, why? And I go, well, well, why not? And at my. This is what I say to everybody when Tiger woods win four tournaments, majors in a row. Did his mom say, stop golfing. This is my jam. This is what gets me up. This is what gets me excited. And, you know, I always reach the top of this mountain and I look over and there's another mountain that's way bigger.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Carm Santoro, God rest his soul, he was the new client of mine, and he did pass. He handed the 6800 chip to Wozniak and Jobs in the garage. I mean, the guy's connected. He literally was on the patent for the first computer chip. And he. He ran a little company called Silicon Systems for a bunch of years. And at 75, he walked in my office suicidal at 75 years old because he was trying to retire. And that loss of identity, and you know, that that is what driven is really about. And I solved the problem really quickly rather than trying to figure out who I am. It's what I am. And what is a logical, rational statement? What you are as a homo sapien, what you are as an animal, full stop. You're a loving child from a loving God if you want to go to that way. And taking apart the identity is the path of really optimizing what I am. And I'm a homo sapien. But I have a different operating system in my brain. I'm wired for chronic discontent. I'm wired in a way that I can run circles around. Most people's thinking biggest thing, the gift that we have. And the curse is this big picture thinking. We see it all. And how much opportunity do you see in front of you right now?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Too much. I mean, Dan Martel, he said, dude, you're going to lose billions and billions of dollars. And he goes, not because you're going to lose money in your businesses. It's because you're going to have to pass on opportunities that don't fit the narrative. On my calendar, if I pull it up on the top it says learn to say no. Learn to say no. Learn to say no.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

And that is, that is the ability to actually be in reality. And so we have two operating systems trying to make sense of this billion very bizarre experience being alive. One very old and one very new. This old one is a unconscious recording device and it's wired for the familiar world. This thing is where the prefrontal and hyperfrontal lobe is. And you can imagine how great the world can be. And everybody gets this monkey up in their head trying to control this elephant. So who's really in control of me? And that, that question because my elephant will kill me with cocaine. Your elephant will kill you with overwork. And your brain then is actually seeing so much opportunity and yell and so being able to actually break that identity. So which one are you? Great question. The answer is obviously both right and drum roll. Neither. So it's that third element. What you said earlier about being able to self reflect. Look in the back when. Look in the back mirror, really see reality. Yeah, there, there's a look on your face and it's like oh shit. Because it's, it's 50,000 years old, you know, 50,000 years now we've been trying to figure out this. Mind, body, soul and meditation then is reality checking. It is not trying to relax. It is not trying to calm down. This thing, you got nine to 13 monkeys up here bouncing around. The elephant's freaking out. The capacity to actually reality check. How does the present moment actually feel?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, be where your feet are that's the eq. I think that most people miss is how do I come off to people? And if you can't view that, I. I always think, like, how is this coming off? And I gotta slow down, be patient, write things down, and actually have some type of methodology or else. I mean, my notes are scrambled. Thank God I got, like you said, a good support team in the calendar. I don't know what I'm doing. I think I'm on a flight in a couple hours, but I don't even know what I'm doing the next day. People are like, how do you fly from seven flights in a week? I'm like, well, that's. I could do 10 podcasts in a day. Like, I do what I want, but I. I don't really need balance. People are like, do you need a break? Do you sleep? Do you get burnout? I'm like, no. You know, when I've been in a situation where I'm actually really in the moment where somebody could be talking to me and they're like, my fiance, she's like, did you even hear anything I said? She's like, you didn't. Did you.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

And I don't know, say that in the book. I can repeat verbatim what you just said because I got a monkey over here tracking it all, but the other nine monkeys are doing something else.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Well, what is. What is. Okay, tell me. You're probably going to say, I'm going to just name some people. So Elon Musk driven.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Very. He is definitely driven. There's a spectrum of empathy and connection to other human beings, and some drivens are wildly connected to other people. We're empaths, like our Spidey sense intuition. We can walk into a room and we feel the room immediately. Other people on the other end of the spectrum can walk into the room and they don't connect. But that capacity to actually understand that and really operationalize it for you as a driven, I mean, you're an empath. Because I can feel your energy. I can feel that connection. Which makes you much better at team building where Elon is.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Steve Jobs is probably the same way.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

His frustration and blaming of others of holding him back. Rather than creating systems or operational manuals, just follow this and we'll get where we need to go. And then being able to get out of the way. And as Elon does, he goes. I studied him week to week to week. He goes from company to company to company, and what's the biggest problem you need me to solve? Which for A ultra empath. And I talk about this in driven. So most farmers, and I'll keep saying that rather than sheep, they're a herding animal, meaning that they're coming from the dorsal vagal system, which they're vagal, which is your fight, fight, flight, freeze, response. And they're herding animals. H E R D what happens when a cheetah runs into a herd of gazelles? They scatter you. Everybody's on their own. We as drivens, tend to be much more wired in the ventral or the wolf pack. Every driven I've ever worked with the, you know, we have a profound awareness of how alone we are in this world. And so we crave to have others that really have our back.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

What's the one thing everybody needs? And Stephen Covey, I think speed of trust is we need trust. That's like the key ingredient to make me sprint, man. This morning we were on a call with, with about 15 people and there was a lot of conflict. The one of the gentlemen had said, do you not trust us? Do you not think that we want this as bad as you? And I said, well, here's the deal for me is I'm not good with. Send me a note next week, I need it back in an hour. And I said, do you know that I do this with every team I work with? It's speed for me. It's, it's relentless speed. It's, it's literally like this was not an impact. I was not trying to make you feel this way. And I said we could call up any of the other teams and there, there's this burning desire to go faster for me. And I, I always say, look, the movement, the way AI is working now, things are changing so fast. I said we don't really need to take breaks.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

We scare the crap out of farmers because we are, we are literally doing things that is antithetical, the opposite of the way they're wired. And as I say over and over, and I say it 10 times a day, urgency is sabotage.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Urgency is sabotage.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Yeah. And slow is smooth and smooth is fast. And what is urgency? And this is where I get all my guys. I work with my long term clients. Some of the guys I've worked with 15 years are rocks to have no urgency whatsoever. Urgency is this need I have to move fast so I don't feel this way. And as long as you're coming from emotion, you're not in your spirit, man.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

I'm pretty aware of what the competition is doing in everything I'm involved With it. So KOBE Bryant took 500 shots a day in practice. Michael Jordan took a thousand. That means we outplay.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

We.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

We.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

We're.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

We're thinking about the next five moves. And I think without this for a leader, I need to say it's okay to go get help and fail. I don't care if you fall 10 times over, because by the time the other guy loads the gun, I'm ready, fire, aim. I might have missed a target 18 times, but now I'm in the bullseye every time.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

That's a math problem, right?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Math. That's my favorite thing is, we got to do math. Let's do math. And people wonder, like, Bree's like, what are you doing in the shower? She's like, all you do is spit out numbers. I'm like, I'm doing math.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Yeah.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

And, like, the most common app and my phone opened is my calculator.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

That ability to see then how meditation applies to everything. And excited for all my drivens that haven't really embraced meditation yet. Because when this thing's calm, what happens to your brain in decision making?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, it gets better. I mean, I do. I do about an hour walk a day, and I. It's in nature. And I hurt my foot and I realized, man, I'm not in a really great mood, but I still gotta come in with a smile.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

And so we're wired for this survival, meaning our sympathetic arousal, our gas pedal is on all the time, which is why we break. Because eventually, 42. And coming up on it, eventually, the elephant wears out. Ability to actually understand that and compensate for it and take care of the elephant and really see how this gift that we are given as driven and what's happening, as you said, AI and this. This Internet, I mean, the world is so rapidly changing. It is time for us to actually step up as drivens and own what we are. But a lot of us that are addicted to money, addicted to power, addicted to politics and all the other shit are destroying this fricking world. But guys like you, guys that are in their heart and actually trying to help the world, you know, and the big picture is, is, you know, we gotta get out of this quarterly profit focus.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, profit stuff. Profit's tough because, you know, finance. My parents got a divorce because of money when I was seven. And I just vowed at seven years old, money's never going to get in the way of anything because I'm not going to watch this destroy any piece of my family again. But then the money was solved, and it's a KPI, It's a driving indicator. But I will say that when is enough enough. Well, the idea is, now I genuinely look at, man, I watch families and I watch the money go out of there. Because if you're making six figures, and the one thing they don't teach blue collars is people say, we deserve this Harley. We deserve this boat. And I'm like, guys, you do deserve everything. Go rent it. Let's focus on getting you some assets that are going to really grow faster than inflation. And you got to trust me here. These things, they make you happy for a little while. The cars break down, the Harleys don't get driven. The boats sound fun until you're not using it. And you just got to trust me on this one. If you guys want to come on a boat, I've got a boat. We could go do it. And you're more than welcome to come to my house. And I invite people like, you can never let them come to your house. I'm like, man, they bought the house. So, you know, I've got these close relationships. And I got to say, Brigo's the other day, who's your best friend? And, man, I go, great question. I'm like, I've got a lot of great friends that come stay. And the one thing is, I don't contact them all the time. When we're together, we're together. And I'm not. Like, this sounds really bad, but a lot of women, if you don't call, if you don't check in, like, they'll never. Like, one argument in second grade. They'll never talk again. We getting a fist fight today?

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Tomorrow? Yeah. I. I can't imagine your fiance isn't driven.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

She has to deal with me, which is a lot. I don't know what you would call that. She's super organized. She was my EA originally. And the thing is, she could balance all of it. She could handle this, which is almost impossible. She's everything I'm not, which we do well. We're not opposite. We're not, but because we enjoy a lot of the same things. But she's everything.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

She.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

She could be stable. She's a very good mom to our dogs right now. Soon to be kids, but, you know, and I respect that. But it's hard. It's hard because sometimes I go, hey, will you let me sprint?

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

She sees the better man you can be. And that. That is literally when the. Biblically, that is what women are designed to do.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

I think that's probably because I got raised mom had three jobs, but was around a lot. Grandma was around every day and my sister. Those are the three. Like my dad was around, but not as much as them. And so I had to learn to love women.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

So be wonderful to watch you have kids because it opens up a biological part of your heart that wasn't open before.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

If you had to start over with 10 million, $10 million tomorrow, nothing else. But you know what, you know now and you got the relationships, what would you do with it?

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

What I'm doing now, build a collective farm and actually build a wolf pack of people that. So I was doing hospice. I did hospice for a couple years. One of my teachers, always amazing demand. But he said, the only thing you give a shit about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love and building wealth and building empires and building this. It all comes down to that and focusing on really building a place where building a Garden of Eden, building God's kingdom is what I would be. And that is literally what I'm doing now. Just finished my three acre bass pond.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

You know, you say wolf pack, I just want to dive deeper into that because I talk to six other guys every day and we're in a tech strand and we jump on phone calls all the time. And they get me.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

They're all drivens.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

They all are drivens. And I could talk to them normally.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

And will they tell you the truth?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah. That's the hard part because they always are. Constructive criticism. One of the things we've got is an open forum to be able to deliver bad news. And not because we want to, but because we respect each other enough. And it's very rare that you have that. And it allows me to compound faster because they're some of the only people that could be honest with me.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Iron sharpens iron and it is. I write about that in the last chapter of Driven is about building your wolf pack. And some of the hardest groups I've ever done. It's gonna make me cry even thinking about it is the seven man teams in SEALs where the eighth guy's missing and you talk about wound and when a. You know, when a. A true brother in a wolf pack dies, it is. You know, you watch wolves, you watch a wolf pack, they mourn for months when they lose, but you look at how they line up. You have the oldest at the front. They're wise, but they're the. They're the ones that the. A pack can afford to lose. Right behind them is the warriors. Then you got the little ones and Then you got the leader at the very back and he's the one overlooking everything, you know, and that's Jocko. Jocko, man. Yeah. Execu. It is. It is that leadership from the bottom, you servitude. Leadership is what drivens are designed to do. And when you got a group of six guys and if you've got that for real where they're all trying to be servants, that is what it is. A rare thing. But as. As drivens, it is the. And the capacity to really let iron sharpen iron man and sparks fly. It. It is not this. When you see two swords go together, man, it's not, you know, and you watch a wolf pack bond, you're spending time with seal teams, man, those guys. And I'm assure that the number of cut downs in those, you know, banter among the six of you must be priceless.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

You know, I'm gonna have to have them watch this because, you know, there's a lot of people I'm close to that, that, you know, I've always said there's so many people I want to teach how to fish. I don't want to give any fishes. I want to get behind people's ideas and allow them to fail, but fail fast. Because failure is where I learned from. I never won, and I won a lot of things. I won a lot of tournaments. I've won a lot of stuff. I've never learned anything from winning. I've learned a lot from losing.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

We don't get that big. Oh, good job. If somebody tries. Yeah. What's next? Next? What's worse is, you know, well, you did great even though you didn't win.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

If I really want to win at something, like, one of my core values here at the company is aspire to be number one. Like, why would you ever want to be number two? Like, why would you be proud of being number two? I had a guy come cry to me and said, I'm sorry, I'm number three in the company. And I'm like, dude, I'm proud of you.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

It's number two is the first loser.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Shake and bake. So let me ask you this. So my hack that I've learned to do is create accountability partners. And when I, when I go there to the cold plunge and I got someone else. So we're chiming it and we're going to see who's going to take longer. It's not fun. But that, that, that's accountability at the, at the highest level. And it's easy because I got I got two people up here. I got the good guy and the bad guy. Well, I got 12 or 13 monkeys. But the idea being is it's easy, you know, nighttime Tommy plan some crazy shit for morning Tommy. But they're different people and. But if I could create that accountability, it makes it so much easier. It doesn't even feel like. And it's almost like working out too. Like I bring a buddy working out. You know, I'm going to break him, but I'm going to break myself in the process.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

That's a game changer because then it. Then it's not about, I need somebody else watching. I need. I. I don't need any of that. And yet I still resist every day. And so that flesh. But it's that discernment and then being able to actually really feel the power of that. It. I mean, goosebumps every time. And so that ability to actually really understand and develop this direct relationship with presence, direct relationship with getting my central nervous system really calmed down, asking yourself, what am I doing? Seeing how you need to build systems in front of you to get where you want to go. And once you get into this rhythm with friends, family, fitness, finance, fun and faith and build this life, you know, driven on the outside, look balanced and happy. And how the hell do you keep this all going? Well, it's simple. I got a team. I got these people that allow me to have this. And it's like, I don't do anything. It just. The team does all this stuff. I'm just the one at the back of the wolf pack. Really appreciating all of them.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

And people are always. I always say, peter Parker, Spider Man. What does his uncle say? With great power can great responsibility is. We've got a responsibility. I tell my competitors, I say, you might not like me, but you're welcome to come get trained by me. I train all of them. They're welcome to come into the building. I'll give them all the secrets. I've got a whole group of a hundred grouse drawer companies that I teach everything I know. I say, but some of.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Some of your enemies, man.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

But I say, here's the problem. You could take it all away. I came from nothing. I'm like, that's the scariest thing in the world when I'm willing to bet it all over and over and over again. Because I know what I'm capable of. And there's no one that can stop me except for myself. Usually I'm the only bottleneck in the company. So just know I lived in a tiny apartment. I drove a used truck. So not, not, not that long ago. This was four or five years ago. And when you got nothing to lose and I'm not crazy, it's all calculated. I was with Jordan Peterson not that long ago. We were on a private plane and I was sitting next to him and he started crying about young men, about they're not really going after skills. A lot of them don't feel worth it. I don't know what it feels like to be a woman. I don't know what it feels like to be a dad. I've been a son before. I look at some people and they just what do they want? They don't want to get their driver's license. I'm like, you don't want to drive? Like, what do you want to do? I'm not sure. And I mean, listen, I've never experienced that before. I've never known, like, yeah, I'm just going to sit and just see what happens and just kind of be here for the ride. Want to be in the driver's seat. And I don't understand this ideal of just. Is it not self worth? What is it with these.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

So I'm a big fan of the fourth turning. So it, it is. Hard times make hard men. Yeah, hard men make these easy times and these easy times where we don't have to struggle, where we don't have to work, where we don't have to actually work for food, you know, over give you your food creates a break of masculinity, a break of value for actually creation and protecting and serving and providing. So the monkey elephant Metaphor it is 90% of people have a single thinker in their head. They have one monkey. 80% of them have no one questioning their thoughts. They have no observing ego. They don't have awareness of insight truly and has driven people. It's like, oh, what? They're in a narrative thinking and if the narrative is challenged, it scares them so they have no insight.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Well, what about. I started thinking a lot. I feel like there's several people on my team that are driven. I, I just feel like they're entrepreneurs. Like they have a lot of freedom. They make the shots. I'm very careful around them to not take away their autonomy. Look, and they could go do it on their own. There's no doubt. I mean it's not easy for either the people I'm talking about in me. It's actually difficult. But you know, I let them sprint. I let them do what they need to do. Is that, Is that possible?

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

I always joke with all my founder driven true driven founders. Well, I want to create a team of drivens. They'll steal your shit and do it themselves if they're truly driven like us. And what will keep them from doing that is the wolf pack. We'd rather do this together. Faith is the feeling. I have faith in you. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. Best predict your future behavior is past behavior. And I've known you for two weeks and so I don't have trust in you, but I got faith.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. A lot of entrepreneurs I know have been burned left and right and they stop learning. My mom used to cry to me, my dad cried to me, my stepdad cried to me because they were all part of the business in some regards, especially my mom and my stepdad. And they go, you have no idea what's going on. I go, I know what's going on. I go, I know they're stealing. I go, it's just, how much am I allowed to permit? Because here's the deal. I can't give them what they need yet at this size company. But what you don't know is here's what I'm dealing with. What do you think's more important?

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Mom?

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

And I smiled and she's like, I just hate it when people take advantage of you. And I said, I appreciate that, but you have no idea how much we win. It's 98% of the time, in a way, we're using each other. And the 2%, I can't, I won't allow myself to go there. I don't allow myself to go into this betrayal mode of thinking and walking in knowing I'm going to get taken advantage of. Because if that's where I live, that'd be a very sorry place.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

So we have loneliness is in the elephant and aloneness is in our soul. In psychobabble terms, it's called the schizoid tear. But we, we are aware of how we are split off from God. And that aloneness is what drives most drivens to actually create a team around them. But you don't want to face that true aloneness that we are separate from God. And so you have to run at that darkness. And that darkness is where you're going to find the light.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

Is there any book that you would recommend that, like, not Napoleon Hill or Dale Carnegie, I always throw out to.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Sandy Stewart, my Zen teacher. Also he greatest teacher. He would teach without teaching. Greatest teacher I've ever had. He said, the only book you actually really need to digest and fully eat is the Book of Self. Stop. And he encouraged stop reading about this shit and look in and run at that pain. That's where you're going to really find the truth. And the truth isn't out there. It's in here.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

I love that. And final words just to the audience to close this out.

[Dr. Douglas Brackman]

Final word would be the only thing you care about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love? Don't miss that. And it is this. This mere fact that we're a bunch of monkeys spinning on a blue rock in the middle of nowhere, man. All we got is this right now in each other. That's it. And as drivens create a world where that gets to be the truth. That would be amazing.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

I loved it. Dr. Doug, thank you so much. This was so hip. Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now.

[Tommy (Podcast Host)]

So my philosophy has always been readers are leaders. And yes, you can do audible. You could watch a podcast, listen to a podcast. But when you're actually reading a book, it's like the last thing in life. Reading real books, sitting down, getting better at reading comprehension, and going through underlining what you love, reading it over, and then taking those notes out of the book and putting them to use. Read more. Learn to love to read, and you will grow further in life than you ever thought possible. And that's it, guys. We'll talk to you next week.