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- [00:01]
A
It's a hockey data show on Sirius XM NHL Network Radio, brought to you by Huddle Instat, offering the largest data and video library of players, teams and leagues worldwide, used by more than 1200 teams globally. We're now speaking with Dr. Kevin Willis, performance psychologist, works with hockey players from a young age to the NHL. He's also a Level 5 coach as well. So this is someone who's been behind the bench and, and in the academic world and the practical world as it comes to clinic, it comes to psychology particular when it, the focus is on players specifically. So, Kevin, thank you very much for coming on the show. We appreciate it. Glad to be here.
- [00:41]
B
Yeah, no, glad to be here, guys.
- [00:43]
A
So one of the first questions, and it's interesting the discipline that you work in, because I've been hearing more lately about NHL teams and really all pro sports using technology such as VR and sensors and even cognitive data to train athletes. For people who are not familiar with that world, what kind of mental data are teams actually tracking and how are they using it?
- [01:10]
B
Yeah, this is one of the more exciting areas that we're starting to see. For decades, teams have always looked at the physical stuff, right? Speed, agility, hard heart rate, strength, recovery. But what's really changing the game now, and we're early in this, but it's that we can actually measure how players think and, and how they make decisions and the, the speed of those decisions. And we're able to do that in real time. You know, when we talk about cognitive data, we're really talking about things like reaction time, right? Focus, visual awareness, anticipation, decision making, speed, basically how fast the brain can process what's happening on the ice. In the NHL, you know, we've got tracking systems that they can tell you where a player's eyes are right before they make a pass or how quickly they can recognize a play that's developing. We've even got VR environments that pros and highly skilled players, USA Hockey is using. One how they, they can recreate, you know, real game situations in that VR environment. And then they can see how long it takes for a player to, to sort of read the ice, pick up on the cues that they've, you know, sort of established in this test maybe, but it's, it's really just exposing them to more and more reads. And all of this can happen literally in, in, in an office or a living room or, you know, in, in a locker room. And all this data is valuable not just for developing skills, but for recovery and performance management. You know, think about Concussions. Coaches can now, you know, track whether a player's cognitive speed and their awareness are all the way back before they're cleared to play. And it's not about replacing the human side. It's really about giving the coaches and the players a deeper understanding of what's happening in those split seconds that separate good from great. I call those in the moment situations. And we're getting, finally getting to the point where we can sort of read those things.
- [03:23]
A
Follow up question to. That's really fascinating. So when teams start collecting this type of cognitive data, reaction time, focus, decision speed, how are they actually using this day to day? Does it really change what happens in practice and during games on a consistent basis? What's the impact?
- [03:41]
B
Yeah, that, that's the really cool part and that's the data that we're getting is finally being turned into coaching action. Right. Let's say a player tends to make slower reads when they're tired. And it makes sense, right? You're tired, your brain's not going to be working as fast. But the data might show that their decision speed is dropping off late in shifts. And so instead of just creating drills that, you know, increase their physical endurance, we can start having them go through exercises and brain training that can, that can increase their mental endurance. Right. And so what we do is we're able to make decisions, adjust shift lengths and things like that so that we're matching better with what, where that player is at. As you know, we talk about training the skill side of it from a physical standpoint, but, you know, it's just until, you know, recently that we can actually do brain training. And that's pretty, pretty cool. And then when you think from a development standpoint, young players can use this same feedback to train their hockey sense. That's what we're seeing inside of USA Hockey. I'm not sure what Hockey Canada is doing right now, but I know in USA Hockey they've used, they're using these VR environments and what it's doing is, you know, at the end of the day, these are young kids, right? But as you get older, you can't, you can't typically keep getting faster and faster and faster. At some point those, those physical skills are going to drop off. But that's not the same, that's not true. The same as it is with the physical, as it is with the mental. With mental, you actually can increase the speed of decision making. You get smarter at being able to read the cues and pick up the plays. You know, we're, we're entering a new era where the brain is becoming as coachable as the body. And teams that learn how to measure and train the thinking speed, they're going to have a huge competitive advantage. Not because they're collecting more data, but because they're finally learning how to use that data to make players smarter and more adaptable.
- [05:44]
C
Devin, great to have you on. Really looking forward to learning more about this side of data. Obviously, I come from the analytics side more. My question for, my question for you. You've talked about how teams are already using cognitive and behavioral data to understand players better and to make smarter decisions. Where do you think this is all heading, especially in pro hockey over the next few years? What's the next frontier for this kind of research and data analysis?
- [06:20]
B
I love this question because we're really just scratching the surface, right? We're at the very beginning of being able to not only collect this data, but being able to figure out how to integrate it into, you know, the more common aspects of training and development and systems and all that kind of stuff. Connecting all the dots between the physical, the cognitive, the behavioral. You know, all of these right now are in different systems, right, different platforms. And all that data is, is separated. But when we can start pulling it together, when we can start integrating all of this data together, we're going to get a better picture. You know, in pro hockey, I think we'll see more emphasis in real time mental readiness, you know, measuring how focused, emotionally regulated and decision sharp a player is before they even step on the ice. And coaches could even use that to make subtle adjustments like, you know, changing a matchup or, or shift timing based on the mental energy and the focus and not just, you know, what they see from a physical fatigue standpoint. And I also think that the cognitive behavioral data is going to play a huge role in player development and in scouting. You know, instead of just asking who's the fastest or the strongest, it'll be who learns the quickest, right? Who adapts the fastest, who stays composed under chaos. That's where that future edge, I think, is going to come from. And as that research evolves and we're able to get all of these data points, you know, into a system where they can all kind of take a look at each other. That's where we're really going to start seeing personalized brain training, right? Where every athlete's, their mental strengths, their stress patterns, we understand how these players are wired from a, from a data analytical perspective. And, you know, we've been doing that with regards to Seeing how they shoot and how they skate and all that, and making adjustments. But imagine when we can start doing that for how they think and how quickly they can make decisions and how quickly they can replace. I mean, it's going to be profound.
- [08:35]
A
That's such an interesting perspective to think about. The idea that mental performance could soon be measured at a level that is that we've never seen before, trained, just like skating or shooting. So, looking ahead, do you think this type of technology and research will ever change how we define talent or potential in hockey?
- [08:57]
B
I really do. I really do. And that's both exciting and terrifying, to be honest. You know, for a long time, we've. We've defined talent by what you can see, right? Speed, size, shot. But this cognitive and behavioral research, as it continues to grow, we're learning what separates the best isn't just what they do physically. We've always said, you know, more of this game is probably mental than it is physical. But now we're going to have data to back it up. We're going to be able to see how they think, how they adapt, how they manage, you know, their emotional regulation under pressure. And I think the future of hockey development is really going to be more holistic, right? We're still going to celebrate those grinders and those snipers, but we're also going to recognize the players who can process that chaos faster, how they can stay composed when, you know, things start to go sideways, and how they elevate the folks around them. From a. Being able to see this from a. A cognitive behavioral perspective is, again, profound is the word that I keep coming back to, because it's something that we've never seen before. And, and I. I think it's going to be amazing when we finally pull it all together. You know, at the end of the day, the next big advantage, I think, in pro hockey is not just going to come from bigger, stronger bodies, but it's going to be about the smarter, more mentally agile players. And. And I think that's where the game is going to.
- [10:21]
A
It's interesting you say that based on the PhD research that I'm working on. One of the papers I'm writing is on cognitive performance. It's more of decision making in another area, but it transfers to that. It's really about trying to understand the how, what and why of decision making from an individual standpoint. And it's not necessarily good and bad. It's just what your brain prioritizes first under duress. And I think that is the fascinating part, is trying to separate that and not look at it in this binary, right or wrong, good or bad. So I think that in the end of the day is more fascinating because I think sometimes when we talk about data in players, they get really antsy. The players do about, oh, you're going to judge me. And this isn't about judging. Every person is, you know, they actually are unique. However, it doesn't mean you're good or bad. So, Dr. Willis, thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Look forward to speaking to you in the future.
- [11:23]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me, guys.
- [11:24]
A
We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned. We'll be back right after these important messages.