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- [00:03]
A
You are tapping into the mental game world for all athletes, all parents and coaches. We equip athletes with the mental skills and healthy phone habits to feel unstoppable in life. And their sports phones are decreasing our mental iq and we need to increase sport iq.
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B
So tune in and learn how to
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master your phones and your mental game.
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C
Foreign.
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B
So I'm here in the studio with Jenny Perez, who is one of the founders of Unplugged Canada. Thank you so much for being here, and it's so nice to meet you. And sometimes I think I'm the only one with my neck out.
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C
No, you are. No, definitely, Definitely. And I want to say this. I'm. I'm the only founder.
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B
Oh, good.
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C
No worries. That's why. Yeah, I know. I'm the one. Yeah, I started by myself, but many people. Many people join. But I hope we can. We can delete that in the video.
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B
Oh, well, I can start again. Just go again.
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A
Ready?
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B
Ready. Hang on. Sorry. I should have my glasses on. Jenny.
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C
No worries. No, I also. I. I feel. I feel the same. I want to.
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B
Okay, just give me. We'll count to three, and we'll start again. Okay. All right. I am so excited today. We have Jenny Perez, the founder of Unplugged Canada, here in our studio today, coming at us from the West Coast, My. My haunting grounds, right from Vancouver. It's amazing, your grassroots in Unplugged Canada we're going to get to. But I. I am excited for you to be here for a number of reasons, because we're. We're working together on the same initiative, and we. We both. I went to Western. You. You did as well. That was kind of neat, kind of to learn about you. But our mission is the same. Our mission is to help children and families with resources and tools to understand what scrolling social media and phone time are doing to the child's behavior and the brain. So I'm so excited. I'm dying to really know. And please tell our listeners, how did you decide to start this? And how did you come up with Unplugged? The name.
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C
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much, Larissa.
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B
No, no.
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C
In my personal journey, I ran into situations where I was exposed to addiction. So I grew up in Peru, and unfortunately, in my neighborhood, there were a lot of drugs. And I saw my dear friends that went from playing and being outside and playing guitar and playing soccer to then being just chasing the drugs. And because drugs are very common, Peru is the second manufacturer of cocaine in the world, even though Colombia gets all the Attention. So to see how they changed, to see how innocent and you know, how outgoing they were. And then a couple of years later when they were in drugs, they changed. And then I got to go to the Assam rehab centers in Peru, but I wouldn't get in. Just would see when they were dropped there by their parents. I associated addiction with hardcore drugs and like cocaine or heroin then that created this, you know, sense of curiosity and also awareness. So drugs would control my, my, my brain and then I would not be in control. And then how I saw my, my friends changing and having such a hard time to, to go back in track and families dealing with all the pain. So that, that definitely stay with me and then moving forward. We are in. I'm in Canada. So I came to Canada in 2002, long time ago. I straight from the Lima, Peru to London, Ontario to do my MBA.
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My backyard.
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C
Yeah. Yes, exactly. Summer of 2002. And then we are. I'm in Canada. Fast forward.
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B
Yes.
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C
In my work I'm exposed to conversations with different experts. So way before I became a mom, I'm a mom of an 11 year old daughter now. I had this conversation with one of my clients in the US who was in the tech industry. It wasn't one in particular where there were probably a couple that were pretty. The first one sparked my curiosity and then I follow up the next time with another person. But where he shared that he didn't want to work in the big tech industry anymore. He wanted to come to Canada, start something new. And then he asked me if I, you. If I had kids. And I said no, no yet. And then he said, well, never give this to a kid, to your kid. If you become a man, never give this to.
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B
I agree.
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C
Yeah. And that is stuck with me, right? That, that is stuck with me. It's like, okay, that's pretty deep. And then that, that curiosity can, you know, stay there. And then wherever I went, I was curious and aware and I had more conversations and I, I travel a lot and I could see at airports, on planes, everywhere there was less people to talk to. Everybody was just looking at their phones and at the beginning it was just adults. And then you see, you keep. I kept seeing more and more young people and kids and even little ones on smartphones.
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A
Oh gosh.
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B
I just saw a kid at the grocery store the other day. He was in the grocery cart and he got his mother's phone. He must have been two.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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B
He knew her code. Put it in. I'm watching. Just because that, what we do yeah. And to go over to her. TikTok. Yeah. He found the app, opened it up and started scrolling on videos. And you know what? I used to love talking to my kids. I taught them language, food, everything about food in the grocery store. We talked to people. I, I didn't have tech. Even though there was. Well, there was barely tech. Maybe iPads. But my kids are older than yours. So I saw it change my daughter when we gave her an iPad and I said, something's wrong. This doesn't feel right. I'm not wiring my kid's brain to tech. And then they would start to get Google Chromebooks at school and I noticed the learning curve completely changed.
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C
Observantly.
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Right? Yeah.
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Continue, continue.
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C
Yeah. So all those sites are there and it's. Were there. And then I had the opportunity to go a rehab center in Canada and that was another, that was a big eye opening because I didn't connect the dots. But then to see the array of addictions and how it didn't discriminate across ages, professions, genders.
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No.
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C
And I remember asking there, you know, in one of the meetings, why, if you know that this is hurting you or if it's hurting your loved ones, why can't you just stop or ask for help when you. And then the participation of everybody there was huge. Like, let me explain it to you. And is. And how the brain protects that, that dopamine need. Right, right. And then as I, as I learned that you understand this is beyond their control and how the brain works. And I don't have your background, you know, I'm an economist, I'm a mom that is concerned about all this, but it's addict. I started reading books. Yeah.
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B
Reading biggest brain experiments right now, Jenny.
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C
Exactly, exactly. So then, then with all that I got, I say I saw almost every documentary I could find. I ordered books. And then I understood that is how the work, the, the brain works. And then I, it was evident that what big tech was doing is to get, get us hooked. And they were.
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Sell us stuff.
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Exactly.
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All they want to do.
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C
Yes.
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One of the interesting experiments I did, I'll tell you this as it's funny. So I work with a lot of sports teams, as you know. So for one of these boys hockey teams and another girls hockey team, they're all in the same room. I said I want everybody to put in their browser car insurance. This is funny. So they're like I said, I'm with them for three days at a camp. Right. So the first day we put it in because the Last day. I want to collect my evidence.
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Yeah.
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You don't believe me, do you? Okay, let's do an experiment. So they put car insurance in, and by the second, they're like, coach Mills, I'm getting emails and Facebook and Instagram ads for freaking Bel Air Direct, and I'm getting TD and car insurance. What the heck? I said, what did I tell you? They're trying to keep you on your biased addiction algorithm, but now you've put something in there that supposedly interests your brain, and they're putting cart. I said, how long did those ads last? You know? And I knew the kids from the whole. They're like, they still get ads six months later.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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B
So it's. I said, do you want to be controlled by phones or do you want to control phones? Yes, it's going to be one way or the other. And I really do foresee a future with no phones for everyone. I do.
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C
Me, too. Me too. So we can go back to flip phones, right? Flip phones. Like, I mean, it's all. It's about this mini computer that we don't want in our lives, especially in our children. But of course, we want technology that is going to be used as tools, like a flip phone or, you know, the landlines are coming back. My daughter, I mean, has her own landline. She talks to her cousins and grandpa and other friends, and it's. More and more people are getting it.
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B
Yeah, they are. They are. And it's nice to see the movement and the bands and how education and sports are changing. But as a society, what this does, and we work at the corporate level as well, is we see that it's. Adults have addiction issues, too. If parents are on their phones for nine, six hours a day, which we clocked. Yes. Then if children are on their phones for 4 to 12, which averages out to, like, I think it's 6.2, then when are parents and kids connecting? When are they getting mental skills? When are they getting morals? When are they getting ethics? Are you going outside? You should be outside for an hour or two a day and exercising. Like, before, we were outside six hours a day.
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C
Yeah.
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And now we're giving them.
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Now we're just saying, yeah, and a
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phone and saying, oh, yeah, but I want playing time for my kid on their soccer team. I'm sorry, but that. Those two don't go together.
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Exactly.
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If you want to be a high performer, you can't be on tech.
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C
Exactly. Exactly. And I 100. Yes. Because I also see here. Yeah, My. When my kids play, play this and that, and then as soon as they are off the, you know, the, the game, they are back to their phones. They go into the changing rooms, they're back to their phones immediately. Exactly. So, so let's, let's be honest to each other. You, you, the mindset, I mean, you know about this. I, I, I have embraced sports later in my life in Peru. You didn't have that, that luxury when I was a kid. But the mindset and you need to be engaged. Right. And so this is so destructive. And this is where people say why I did, why I found it unplugged. And it's because I found that big companies are going beyond, I mean they, they come after adults. I get that. The drugs, the addiction, addictive, addictive things. But when the fact that they are going after our children and they are going after their mind, that was huge. And that's when they're crossing the line. And that's where we all need to step up.
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B
They want you to buy apps, they want you to click on stuff, they want you to play games. It is all about money.
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C
Yes.
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And they don't care what happens to your child.
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C
Yes. 100%.
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They don't care. They care about how big their coffers get.
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C
Yes.
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Right.
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So I want to ask a couple other questions. So Can Unplugged, as I understand, I'm learning more about it, about what you do. How can you help the educational system? Do you have, do you go into the schools? Like can we, can people, you know, explain a little bit about how you operate?
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C
Yeah. So Unplug CANA is a grassroots movement and is led by volunteer parents all across, from all across Canada. We have a chapter in PI, we have a chapter in NaimoBC and we also have a chapter in even in the Northwestern Territories that we just starting.
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B
Cool.
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C
So we have about 20 chapters across Canada.
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I'll do the London one.
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C
I, oh my goodness. I, we actually I was going to, I thank you so much for, for offering because there are, there are some parents in London, Ontario that are that want, are asking me. Can, can, can you connect us with a, the chapter leader? So that's perfect because we have. Are you the first chapter so here on Perth. And then we. They're right up here. Yes, exactly. Doesn't cover London. And then we just started with a Windsor chapter.
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B
Yes, that's, yes.
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C
London is still in the middle. Okay. But that's perfect. Love it. So we have chapters and what we do, we, we offer free resources on our website. So our website and I Wish I could show it to you. Has. I don't know if I, I can share my computer screen.
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Try.
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C
Okay. Send request.
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B
We'll allow it. There you go.
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C
Okay. I think it's easier if I show you because the website is the product.
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B
Yeah, I checked, I checked it out like a while ago.
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C
Okay. So we have two initiatives. We have the community building in schools primarily to delay smartphones until at least 14. So when we click here, parents can sign the pledge. We almost have 10,000 pledges from all across Canada. And then when they sign the pledge, then they can see how many people in their school and peer grade. So let's say Ontario. Ontario has this number of pledges in over 500 schools. Yes. Real data. How many parents have pledged per school? Per grade? Per school. And then you know that you are not alone in this effort, you know, because the biggest thing is when you hear your, your kids saying mom or dad. I, we need a smartphone because all my friends have it. So when you look here, if you. We see Adam Becker School. What? That's one of our, our top performers. We know that in grade four, 25 parents have said no to smartphones until at least 14. So once they sign the pledge, we are with them in the process every
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year one here in London because we're really helping the schools with the curriculum. Because it's about education.
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Exactly.
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You can't make anything change without educating teacher, parents and the students. It doesn't work. And now that we're using and relying, I left teaching when actually they put phones in the room and I said I'm leaving. And I was a damn good teacher. I love the kids. I love the kids. I had no problem staying late working with parents. I never had a parent complaint. I had kids come and want to come to my wedding like. And I coach multiple teams and I loved it. But you know what I saw 20 years from now where we are, I said, we will have chaos with dopamine. I can't compete with dopamine and I don't want phones in my classroom and I don't want to be forced to being on Chromebooks. And my kids classes had higher averages than the other classes because I didn't use tech or browsers. We used encyclopedia. And our grades and comprehension were higher.
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Yes.
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And my marking, I was able to mark 90 English essays faster than any other English speaker.
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And is that how tech has taken over also in our schools? Right.
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And yeah, I don't like it. It doesn't work. It's not as fast.
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C
Yeah. And and that's why when Unplugged was born was about, okay, let's join our voices. Let's step up as power, as parents. Let's start at home and let's build community. Because that's also another thing. Now the communities are on the phones. They are not real communities. So I felt like Latina, that we want more community. It takes a village to raise a kid, so let's help each other because parenting is not easy. But I wanted to also make sure that I share that we have resources in both English and French. And it's to start conversations in. In your parent community, to start conversations with your principal, to start conversations in your district. We have all the tools, alternatives to smartphones. How to become a school champion. If you want to champion the pledge in your school, how can you do that? If you want to start a chapter, how you do that? If all the letters look at hours of volunteer work. Yes. And behind Unplugged, there is a community of. Such a diverse community of volunteer parents is beautiful to see that. Like, we have top pediatricians, top psychiatrists, top psychologists, we have top tech experts, we have academics, we have leaders in the field, industry, in art. All of them working together to review these resources.
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The importance. Yes.
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And if we get more voices in the village, then each household is impacted. Because if we continue on this way, I'm. I'm currently terrified for education.
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C
We should be really concerned. Yes, we should.
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B
I'm more than terrified. I was terrified 20 years ago. Jenny. Yeah, I. I saw the writing on the wall. I saw the way that as a union of teachers, I was very upset. Why aren't we fighting for the classroom environment? Where. Why are you fighting with this? It really. Well, it really dissected everything in learning.
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Right.
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And now, of course, Sweden's already changed back to paper and pen. So is Norway, so is Finland. Parts of England, parts of Canada are. And there are actually some schools because here's the really cool thing. I love tech. I love phones. They're freaking fantastic. Right? I can watch my daughter swim. I can talk to my son in Bermuda, wherever he is. Like, I mean, I can talk to them. I can see my other son play a game. It's great. But what I worry about is that it's an impulse control change in the brain. Now everybody is. We're in an instant gratification society. We're never happy if we can't get dopamine from something, we're not happy. So we really need everyone's dopamine to come down to Be a little bit more chill.
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C
To appreciate what it surrounds us. Right. To appreciate the little grounded.
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B
Everyone's nervous systems are buzzed over 176 times a day. That's including in adults. There are some adults who are actually ignoring their children, ignoring their children every day, putting them on tech when they get home, feeding them when they go back to tech. To me, I've been talking with a bunch of CAS workers and I said, why are you not calling this phone abuse. This is neglect. It's just a different form. Right. And these kids are now behind in language, cooperation skills, all their social skills or emotional intelligence skills, their mental skills. And here we have behavioral issues everywhere we look and we do not have enough psychotherapists, counselors to raise your children.
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C
Exactly. The wait, the waiting for those too long.
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B
It has to be done in the home. And this is where I like to unplug. Because you can make changes so easily in 10 steps to reduce phone use in your home. Yes, we do it with 700 to 1700 families a year.
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C
It is possible and that's what we want parents to feel that this is possible. Because I hear sometimes it's too late, they feel defeated. And that's where we want to show that there are thousands of parents that believe it's possible. And it's definitely easier than what we think. It's not super easy, but it's possible. So I also wanted to show before I. Yeah, we got two more minutes. There are tools for sports teams and extracurriculars. So a phone free support request letter is there. So we have covered because like I said behind Unplugged there's such a powerful diverse team of parents that donate their time, their expertise and then also how to start a local chapter from schools government action. If you want to write to your
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MP everything more that's go back up there. I want to get 5,000 more schools in Ontario.
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C
Yeah.
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And I would like. I'm going to add a few here in London and I'm going to add some sports teams here in London and everywhere I go.
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Yeah.
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C
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And the other initiative that we started a little bit over a year ago was an action, a call to action to support advocacy efforts. We won the social media age minimum of 16 inspired by Australia new legislation and there is a call to action and we also have information to clarify the misinformation. Like to address the misinformation.
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Can you go back, can you go back up? Yeah, actually I didn't see this page before, so. Yeah, the national Advocacy.
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C
Yes.
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B
And, yeah, I'd like everybody to see. Like, I know you guys are listening to the podcast, but when you watch the video, they'll be able to watch this as well.
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C
And that's what I want because this is a great website where we show that to the two initiatives, the two arms. Because we are engaged parents that want the norm to change. But we feel, and we know that it's not possible if you don't have legislation as a framework to join to help us in our parenting, to help us change the norm. We have gained a lot of momentum with social media age minimum in. In Ottawa. So we are. We hope for the bill to have this. Yes. Hopefully very soon this year.
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B
Yeah. I'm so excited. Well, I want to thank you so much, Jenny from Unplugged Canada. Kindred spirit here. But what we need to do for kids is simply we have to agree to get them off the phones. The doctors want it.
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C
Yes.
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B
Right. The teachers need it. And parents, you guys are always at your wit's end. And the reason why kids are not mastering their regulation and control and emotions is because they're never allowed to figure them out.
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Yes.
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Right. So though by the time they get to 16, if they've been on phones for 39, 000 hours, which our science says is now 41, 000 hours, that is three and a half years of their lives sitting still, which breaks my heart because we may not to be athletic for life, but you do need to be fit for life. And outside playing, engaged, there are kids not getting rites of passage like birthday parties, going to dances. Dances are almost, you know, abolished because of being here at our area. I would love to see kids gain back their childhoods.
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Yes.
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And gain back their rites of passage and their proms and their grads and. And engage in something better. But to them, chasing that dopamine doesn't mean any of those things.
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C
Exactly. Exactly. And so I love. Childhood is so short. Right. And we have one. It's like, we should treasure it. And. Yeah.
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A
So you.
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B
Well, we're gonna have you back. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm gonna post this. I'm gonna try everything to help you out in the way I can. There's a couple other things I'm going to talk to you about as well. And hopefully we can get those initiatives going. So I'm appreciative of you. I'm inspired by you. And thank you.
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C
Thank you. Thank you, Larissa. So two takeaways is going to be the chapter in London. And also I'm going to forward the email exchange that I have had with the company we spoke with about. Right. That's out of the podcast, right?
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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C
I'll add, it has been a pleasure.