The Messy Parts with Maryam Banikarim

Episode: Becoming the CEO of Me: Communications Icon Sally Susman
Guest: Sally Susman (former head of corporate communications at Pfizer)
Date: February 2, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Sally Susman’s remarkable and candid journey through the messy, challenging, and triumphant moments that have shaped her career and personal life. Known for her tenure as head of communications at Pfizer and her key roles at Estee Lauder and American Express, Sally discusses authenticity, career reinvention, coming out amid adversity, driving corporate activism, leading through crisis, and her newest chapter—becoming the “CEO of Me.” The conversation is raw, funny, and deeply insightful, offering lessons on navigating the “messy parts” of life and leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Growing Up: Privilege Meets Pressure

(02:00–05:00)

• Sally describes her childhood in a driven, ambitious family from St. Louis, Missouri. Her father became a prominent lawyer and later the US Ambassador to the Court of St. James.
• Quote: “My parents were very ambitious...they were very connected, they were very hardworking. They had big plans for themselves and for my brother and me, but not me. I mean, I was just running wild through the neighborhood.” (02:33, Sally)
• She recalls the pressure of privilege, detailing the high expectations and her reputation as a rebellious child.

Coming Out: Navigating Rejection and Finding Authenticity

(05:00–10:38)

• Sally shares her emotional experience coming out to her parents at the height of the AIDS crisis.
• Quote: “My father started to cry. My mom was furious. And I remember my dad saying to me, you'll never have a spouse, you'll never have children, you'll never have a career.” (07:23, Sally)
• She describes how rejection crystallized her resolve and became the touchstone for her future courage. This act of authenticity paved the way for professional and personal strength.
• Quote: “It's the best thing that ever happened to me. Nothing scared me after that. I mean, I had risked my relationship with my family. And since then...I'm unafraid because this was the very best thing. It gave me strength.” (09:32, Sally)

The Power of Networks & Activism During the AIDS Era

(10:41–12:08)

• In D.C. during the 1980s, Sally became part of an underground but vibrant LGBTQ community, building lifelong friendships and participating in early civil rights activism.

Authenticity at Work—Lessons for Leaders

(12:08–13:10)

• Sally recounts a senior executive confidentially asking her to hire a PR firm to “make her authentic.”
• Quote: “Authenticity resides in us. I often feel that secrets are corrosive. And so getting out of that closet, whatever it is, is so important...I don't know anyone who regretted it.” (12:39, Sally)
• Her advice: authenticity cannot be manufactured, and secrets are corrosive to both life and leadership.

Pivoting from Public Sector to Corporate America

(13:24–15:27)

• Although she initially aspired to a lifelong governmental career, Sally found the environment slow and limiting for true impact.
• She shares a story of bluffing her way into a meeting at Amex by claiming she had an upcoming interview at a competitor—her first example of boldness at work.
• Quote: “You give it your all and they will give you compensation and opportunity...work was magical.” (15:12, Sally)

Corporate Activism: Pioneering LGBTQ Benefits

(16:02–18:39)

• At Amex, Sally helped organize for same-sex partner benefits. The experience was nerve-wracking but ultimately successful, and established her as a change agent.
• Quote: “I'm happiest when my heart is in my throat. And that was a heart was in my throat moment.” (16:39, Sally)

Embracing—and Thriving in—Corporate Culture

(18:01–18:39)

• Sally reflects on finding fulfillment in the politics, demands, and opportunities of corporate life, especially when driven by greater missions.

Crisis and Transformation: Leading Pfizer’s Pandemic Communications

(18:39–24:50)

• Sally discusses choosing to join Pfizer at a time when Big Pharma was widely mistrusted, and how the pandemic altered both the company’s and her own trajectory.
• She recounts CEO Albert Bourla’s decisive plan at the pandemic’s start:
  • Care for employees
  • Ensure medicine supply
  • Make a vaccine by year’s end
• She took unprecedented transparency measures (e.g., embedding journalists, publishing trial protocols), risking potential catastrophe if things went wrong.
• Quote: “I was filming what could be one of the greatest corporate debacles of all time. But I also thought, if Pfizer fails, the world's over. Bad news day for Pfizer is the least of it, right?” (24:50, Sally)

Personal Growth and Finding a Voice

(26:14–27:37)

• Sally reveals that crisis forced her out from behind the scenes—speaking publicly, engaging new stakeholders, and finally writing her book about leadership born from messy, unplanned moments.
• Quote: “Everybody I'd ever worked for had educated me to be ready for this moment. And you don't know when that moment is going to come.” (27:35, Sally)

Advice: Be Ready for Your Moment

(28:02–28:52)

• Sally emphasizes the value of being prepared for unexpected opportunities and crisis, and how purpose can animate one’s efforts even during chaos.
• Quote: “Be ready, because you don't know when it's coming for you.” (28:52, Sally)

Learning from the Unexpected: 'The Intern' Story

(29:01–32:42)

• Inspired by the film “The Intern,” Sally recruited a retired executive as a summer intern at Pfizer, which led to press coverage and intergenerational learning.
• Quote: “The key thing is some journalists picked this up...and ended up making it a cover story in Fast Company magazine. I had been trying to get Pfizer into Fast Company...and they love this kind of quirky, intergenerational, unconventional [story].” (31:46, Sally)
• She credits her openness to scratching for ideas and embracing help wherever it appears.

Reinvention: Becoming “CEO of Me”

(33:01–34:19)

• Sally discusses stepping away from corporate life, rejecting the term ‘retirement’ and opting to remain a lifelong learner—an “abecedarian.”
• She describes preparing for her transition by pursuing board work, writing, and planning her “off ramp”—avoiding her father’s example of struggling with identity post-career.

Concrete Tips for Career Transitions

(35:55–37:47)

• Prepare for your next chapter before leaving your current one.
• Save positive feedback for tough times.
• Make amends for past missteps.

Engaging the Mess: Public Political Support

(38:41–44:20)

• Sally recounts supporting a controversial political candidate, guided by a desire for honest engagement over ideological distance, and how she resisted being seduced back into full-time work.
• Quote: “I am now the CEO of me...The greatest thing is controlling your calendar.” (43:45, Sally)

Reflections & Rapid Fire Advice

(44:20–47:50)

On Messiest Moments and Lessons

• Her worst mistake: leaking information and disappointing her first boss (45:06–45:21)
• To 35-year-olds: “Worry less.” (45:25, Sally)
• On nerves: “Fear and fear of failure has been a big motivator in my life...the high that I get from that heart in my throat feeling.” (45:54, Sally)
• Myths to ignore: Five-year plans and elevator pitches.
• For transitions: Keep your aperture open—volunteer, network, and don’t force yourself to conform to expectations.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Be ready, because you don't know when it's coming for you.” (00:49 / 28:52, Sally)
• “My father started to cry...you'll never have a spouse, you'll never have children, you'll never have a career.” (07:23, Sally)
• “It's the best thing that ever happened to me. Nothing scared me after that.” (09:32, Sally)
• “Fear and fear of failure has been a big motivator in my life...the high that I get from that heart in my throat feeling.” (45:54, Sally)
• “I am now the CEO of me...controlling your calendar. That is what has been most surprising, delightful, joyful, amazing.” (43:45, Sally)

Important Timestamps

• Childhood and family background: 02:00–05:00
• Coming out and its aftermath: 05:00–10:38
• Career pivots: 13:24–15:27
• Corporate activism at Amex: 16:02–18:39
• Pandemic at Pfizer: 23:13–27:37
• “The Intern” experiment: 29:01–32:42
• Reinvention and transition tips: 33:01–37:47
• Supporting a controversial candidate: 38:41–44:20
• Rapid fire advice: 44:20–47:50

Episode Tone & Takeaways

Candid, compassionate, and sprinkled with humor, the episode is both confessional and instructive. Sally owns her mistakes, espouses living authentically—even when it’s messy—and demonstrates how embracing uncertainty and risk often leads to growth and fulfillment. Her journey from rebellious Midwestern kid, to pioneering corporate activist and crisis leader, to CEO of herself, invites listeners to be braver, more open, and to prepare for their own “messy parts”—because that’s where real change happens.

For those navigating career, identity, or personal transitions, this episode is a powerful reminder that there is strength in vulnerability, and that true reinvention is always possible—even after a so-called “ending.”