← The Messy Parts
The Messy Parts
Fede Garcia: Fired at the top and giving up on the power, the prestige, and all of it
00:39:56
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- [00:00]
A
What's the lesson that you took that we could share with that generation today? Because that messy beginning actually led you to the amazing middle.
- [00:10]
B
I think the biggest lesson for me was that careers are not a straightforward line and they don't grow geometrically. Your career goes up and down. It kind of moves like a stock. And I feel that eventually, if you put enough effort and you work hard enough, and if. If you put enough time, eventually things happen.
- [00:38]
A
Welcome to the Messy Parts, the podcast where remarkable leaders share the twists, turns, and pivots in their uneven career journeys. Fede Garcia popped on my radar because of a LinkedIn post. Now Fede is a Chief Creative officer and he's had a remarkable career in the advertising business. What struck me about the LinkedIn post is that it wasn't about celebrating a win or a new job or a new campaign. It was him explaining why he quit the business. The honesty, the rawness, it was remarkable. And it made me reach back out to him because I wanted to understand a little bit more about the backstory, what made him decide to make this new pivot, especially given all the accolades and success he's had so far. That is definitely a messy part story that we need to hear about. So I couldn't be more excited. You and I really got to know each other because you made a post on LinkedIn that I reshared and commented on and that post went viral.
- [01:38]
B
Yeah, you made me famous.
- [01:39]
A
I don't think I made famous for a minute. Yeah, I don't think I made you famous, but I want to start actually to talk about that. You open up that post by saying, I left the business about a year ago, actually, the business left me, but I decided to go chasing after it. I left, let it go like a toxic ex you're obsessed over. For a long time that post was really messy and vulnerable and honestly, it was amazing. I remember seeing it and reacting to it instantly and then reposting about that because I love the mess and I like to talk about it. So what made you write that?
- [02:18]
B
I think the post, in a way has like a one year in the making. When I lost my job, I was still. It caught me completely by surprise. I was having an amazing run at my agency. I was coming off being a jury in Cannes of winning Cannes Lions for the first time. I think it was for the agency. And suddenly I found myself out of the job. And at that moment I went to talk to a lot of friends. What do you think? Where should I go next? What kind of job should I Get. And one of the things that somebody told me is you need to get a job as soon as possible. And then you need to manage your narrative so it doesn't look like you got fired. So you get another job quite quickly. And suddenly you made the move, you decided to change, you decided that you needed a new job and it will look perfect.
- [03:16]
A
What was wrong with being fired?
- [03:18]
B
Well, that's kind of the problem. LinkedIn, to me, it's a platform that's so toxic in a way, because nobody show the messy parts, nobody shows the failures, nobody shows the bumps on the road. It's always about showing this perfect, beautiful, picture, perfect career. And when somebody gave me that advice, I thought, yeah, that's smart advice. But that's not me. I don't. I don't want to lie. So when I decided that I was no longer pursuing a job within the agency business, I wrote a post and a post that told the story. A post that said something like, somebody told me this and this and this, but the truth is, I got axed. I got kicked to the curve. I got fired. And all the euphemisms you can find about getting fired. It was kind of a copywriting exercise. And I thought it was funny and I thought it was honest. And then eventually I kind of start thinking, like, what? I'm going to post this. There's always. Even if I feel that I'm getting old, there's a kind of a teenage rebelliousness about me. So when somebody says, don't do that, I go and do that. And I said, grow up. Why are you going to post about this? Just leave your position. Fuck LinkedIn whenever you feel like changing your position. And then time went by. But I always felt that it was very important to tell the things that happen to you when things are not perfect. And says, let's say the truth about all this. And that kind of marinated for a year. And I realized about all the things that happened over the year when I was no longer part of the industry and I thought, I like writing. I wasn't doing any advertising anymore. I needed to put my creativity somewhere. And that's how I came up with the idea of writing the post. It was just a random day in the middle of the summer in Argentina under the AC on a very, very hot afternoon. And I started writing. I showed it to my brother. I told him what I was feeling. You should write about it. I sent it to him. He thought it was cool and I thought it was interesting again, because seeing all the amazing talent that is being kicked out of the industry that I thought that a lot of people might be going through the same thing. And I thought my experience worth telling and maybe people could relate and find it reassuring or make them feel okay. I'm not the only one that's going.
- [06:06]
A
Through this, that you could be at the top of your game. Think it's going swimmingly well. You're winning all these awards and yet all of a sudden, poof, you're out.
- [06:14]
B
Exactly.
- [06:15]
A
Were you surprised by the reaction to the post?
- [06:18]
B
I was very surprised. I finished writing the post, I scheduled it for the next day, and I think I put it like 11am in the morning. I completely forgot about it. Funnily enough, I was playing tennis with a very dear, dear friend of mine who happens to have a massive job in the creative side in global agency. And I told, hey, I made this post, read it, tell me what you think. And that was it. And I never expected that it would blow up like it did. And then suddenly a lot of people, like, I bumped people into Buenos Aires. I was in a barbecue that my friend, this one invited me and there were another people from the industry that he invited that I didn't know. And suddenly the subject of the post came up and says, you're the guy who wrote the post. You read it and then everybody read it. It was kind of weird.
- [07:07]
A
And was the conversation much more honest and raw and messy as a result of that?
- [07:12]
B
Yeah, because in the end, my peer groups, my friends, are people who are at the very, very top of the game, but they're also kind of questioning their own life. Like, we're getting older. The industry is in a complete, very complicated moment. No matter how good you're doing, no matter how much you're on top of your game, you could lose your job, but not necessarily a big reason. And then we've lived more years than the ones that we have to live. And you start questioning your life and you start thinking about it and you start looking back and what have I done with my life and have I enjoyed enough? Has everything been a career and that's it? And when does it end?
- [08:02]
A
When I reposted your article, Martin Puris wrote, I after George Bush left the White House, a reporter asked him what the biggest difference was in his life, and he said, nobody returns your phone call. Did people return your phone call when you left?
- [08:15]
B
I would say they stopped calling. Luckily. I have a very, very good friend of mine. He gave me very, very sound advice. He's a guy that knows me a lot and Based on a conversation that I have with him, I kind of made a decision that I wasn't going to pursue another job within the agency world. And the funny thing is, when you're in a global CCO job, you're the owner of many, many budgets. When you don't have those budgets anymore, suddenly you're not that interesting. Like all the trade, they're interested in you. Yeah. Maybe because you have something interesting to say, but also because you come on budgets and you can buy subscriptions and you can enter awards and this and that and those, it's massive amount of money. So when they have limited space to print about people, who are you going to print about? The interesting people, the people that have the money to keep your business going.
- [09:18]
A
It's such an interesting thing because I've been talking to a group of women who are all in transition, C suite women in transition. And we have this conversation and we all have this experience of when you leave the big job. I mean, for years, people would introduce me as the former global CMO of Hyatt. I was like that, like four jobs ago. Like, what's happening? This idea of decoupling who you are from your job because you're obviously way more than your job. Even though to have had the jobs that you've had. And I've had you work all the time. Right. I mean, I. When I stopped working for a bit after Hyatt, I remember I was like, what are my hobbies? Like, I didn't have hobbies. I just worked all the time. I mean, besides having a family. So how was that adjustment for you when you stepped off and the phone stopped ringing and you didn't have a schedule and you weren't like, constantly on a plane, train, or automobile?
- [10:04]
B
Well, to me, the most interesting part about all this is what happens when you. You say decouple.
- [10:10]
A
Yeah.
- [10:11]
B
When you decouple from your ego. Because that's the biggest thing. It's not necessarily about your job. I love creativity. I will always love it. I will always be creative. But I have many other passions in my life. But the thing is, how do you live when the constant adulation of the industry doesn't exist anymore because people reach out to you for an interview. Let's take a look at your career. Why don't you sit in a jury? Why don't you comment on this? And then people, they try to know you, they try to impress you so you can give them a job, and suddenly you're walking in Cannes and you walk around and you're a jury. And a lot of people know that's the jury. My, my career is on that guy's hands. And suddenly there's this massive figure built around yourself where you feel pretty good. Yeah, it feels good. But what happens when you take all that out? Who are you? It's like, can you live without people telling you're some kind of genius every other five minutes? And to me, that's the most interesting thing. I feel that some people cannot live without that because their sense of self, there's self assurance. It comes from people turning, oh, you're fucking amazing.
- [11:37]
A
So clearly the leaving at that moment was a big messy part. What were the other messy parts? I mean, one of the things I find is that we often, you know, you talk about LinkedIn, I think, like on Instagram, people's lives always looks perfect. People think like, it's so easy, you know, getting to the top. But the truth of it is, for the many years that I had these big corporate jobs, there was a lot of messy moments.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah.
- [11:58]
A
Are there other messy moments that you remember besides this one seminal one?
- [12:02]
B
When I was growing up, I never thought I was a creative. I never thought I was a creative person. I always thought that I was smart. And I was a little bit cocky about that.
- [12:11]
A
And doesn't that come with the territory?
- [12:14]
B
I. Somebody said that the perfect creative is the right balance between that kind of cockiness and attitude and self doubt. And I thought that was pretty great. And that comes with the territory first. Because when you're coming up with ideas, there's no one final answer. Every idea can be beaten, every idea can be better. So there is that self doubt where even if you come up with an amazing idea, you're humble enough to challenge, could it be better? But then at the same time, think about the job. Just a guy with a block of paper coming up with stupid ideas. And then somebody puts $10 million behind that stupidity. You need to have a certain level of cockiness to operate in a job like that. I always feel that when you get very cocky, life has a way of slapping you and put you in your place. The way life slapped me on my 20s was by G me kidney dysfunction.
- [13:20]
A
Oh, that's a big deal.
- [13:22]
B
That's a big deal. So that's messy. So I was like a 20 something, eager to take on the world, a little bit too cocky. And then suddenly I was hooked on to a dialysis machine for four years. And then four years, four and a half. Yeah. And then a subsequent kidney transplant. So that kind of all My plans, all my cockiness, always, like out the window. And it kind of influenced my career.
- [13:51]
A
In what way?
- [13:53]
B
First I had to go three times a week to do four hours of dialysis. And in a career that is as demanding as advertising, I couldn't take very demanding jobs because let's say at 6pm I need to leave the office and hook to a dialysis machine. Nobody leaves at 6:00pm in Argentina. People leave at 8:00pm it's like, oh, well, you're taking it easy. So that kind of changed the kind of jobs that I took. That's why I always called my first, let's say 15 years of my career, like act one. And it was very, very messy because of that. I was taking not the jobs that I love, but the jobs that could afford me the time so I could go and do dialysis. So the flexibility, the flexibility and all that. And then again, I was young and inexperienced and I probably made all the wrong choices when it came to, to my, to my career.
- [14:59]
A
It's interesting that you look back and even use the word wrong when you had a really long, storied career in advertising with lots of awards. Right? The things that people on LinkedIn, yeah.
- [15:10]
B
My first celebrate my first 10 years were a disaster.
- [15:12]
A
But the first 10 years, don't you think that chapter led you to the second chapter?
- [15:16]
B
Oh, 100%. But that's. As Steve Jobs said, you can only join the dots by looking back. I was just pursuing the wrong job, sometimes because of the time availability, sometimes because one paid a little bit better for whatever reason. But this was the beginning of 2000, and I worked on political marketing, I worked on digital marketing before social media even existed. I worked on a radio station, I worked on tv. So I was doing content before it was called that. Then I landed a job at an agency that was doing events, what you call activation before it was even called activation. So it was 10 years of building a career. And I think it was around the time probably I was around 30. They say, okay, I did all the wrong choices. I don't like where my career is, but I was a creative director and somebody offered me a job at JWT as a junior copywriter. And I was 28, 30, something like that. And I went from CD to junior copywriter and I took a cut off a third in my salary just to start again.
- [16:29]
A
That was a moment of ego that you were able to check your ego and say, I'm giving up this title, but I think stepping back, taking less money will put me on a different path. What's the lesson in that? Right, Because I think about sort of the job market today, particularly in creative industries, and how it's quite difficult for the young generation to find a job. Or you know, because we just keep reading about layoffs. What's the lesson that you took that we could share with that generation today? Because that messy beginning actually led you to the amazing middle.
- [17:06]
B
I think the biggest lesson for me was that careers are not a straightforward line and they don't grow geometrically. Your career goes up and down. It kind of moves like a stock. And I feel that eventually, if you put enough effort and you work hard enough and if, if you put enough time, eventually things happen. To be honest, I didn't start winning awards until like maybe the last five years of my career. I was the guy that was doing good work for the clients, work that the clients love, but not award winning work for.
- [17:47]
A
Was it moving the needle? Was it moving the needle for the client but just not winning commercial?
- [17:53]
B
Yeah, in a way, like all creatives, and I'll admit to this, we are quite selfish. Right? We are trying to make our own career. So to make your own career, you need to get some kind of notoriety. When you get some kind of notoriety, it's easy to get the next job. Chances are your career going to move faster by jumping jobs rather than stay at the same job forever. It's not that common that somebody stays 20 years and makes that kind of growth. So to get those jobs faster, you need to create the kind of work that it's seen. And the easiest way to get your work seen is by winning awards. So every creative is pursuing those little nuggets of work that will give them the most PR possible, the most visibility and then you jump quicker. My career wasn't like that. I was doing solid work. Clients were happy. I would say that they loved me. But it wasn't the kind of work that was noticed by my peers. So my career was pretty flat. And when I got the opportunity to go to Tokyo, it wasn't because I was an award winning creative director.
- [19:12]
A
Why was it?
- [19:13]
B
I was just a solid creative. I was working for Coca Cola back then. I was the creative director for all below the line activities for Coca Cola in Argentina. And the position opened in Tokyo for Coca Cola. And it was kind of one of those accident things and I could talk. I had, like I said, 10 gravitas to present. I did well on the interviews and eventually you get the job. Ended up getting the job. But I wasn't an award winning creative director. Actually, I stayed in Tokyo and for my first two years in Tokyo, I won nothing. So my career was completely flat. And then they changed ccos and the British CCO came that was more eager to win awards and he came with that agenda. So in a way, my boss found in me like a partner to come up with those kind of ideas that would get some PR in the attention of the world.
- [20:01]
A
And that's sort of when you began to win.
- [20:03]
B
And that's when we came to win. So it was two years of that. I was more involved in projects that would get PR and we get the attention of the world. So I had a knack for it. And then I started winning awards and I was already for personal things in my life. I was already kind of on my way out of talking. So it was two years of doing the kind of work that get the, that gets the world noticed. And that's how I ended up getting a job in New York.
- [20:34]
A
And yet here you are winning all these awards. And in doing the research, I read that you also had imposter syndrome at the same time, like you're on the trajectory, you actually now land the big awards. Why did you. I mean, I relate to this, right, Because I never feel like it's, it's done or, you know, people are like, you're so successful. It never feels that way to me. Yeah, why did it feel that way to you?
- [20:55]
B
Well, first, because I feel that I'm not that successful. Every friend that I have have won 10 times the amount of award that I want. I don't consider myself an award winning creative director.
- [21:05]
A
But what is success to you? That's a. I mean, because when I hear you right, like as a creative director, it feels like the successes in these awards. I mean, as a chief marketing officer, it was never about the awards, right? So what is, how do you, like, what were you aiming for?
- [21:22]
B
That's why I said, like creatives are very, very selfish is the awards. And it's not because of the awards itself. It's kind of creating work that is kind of seen by the industry and your peers is the one thing that kind of makes you kind of famous and it's easier to get your next job.
- [21:39]
A
You said a pinnacle of your career was having a billboard in Times Square.
- [21:43]
B
Yeah.
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A
Why?
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B
Because I'm a kid from Argentina. The first time I came to New York, it was, I've always loved American movies, TV shows. I got sick in 1999. I was 20 something. And right before I started dialysis, that it meant that I Have to be kind of depending on the machine so I wouldn't be able to travel. I squeezed in trip to New York for the first time in my life. I stayed at the YMCA on I think it was 43rd and 3rd, something like that. And every day, because I didn't know better, I walked to Times Square and I saw a billboard there that said one Times Square, welcome to the center of the world. And I was a kid that didn't got yet to have a career in advertising because I was sick. And then I thought, what would it be like to have a billboard here? And eventually I had a billboard on that same billboard.
- [22:52]
A
What client?
- [22:53]
B
Hbo.
- [22:54]
A
And how was that? How did it feel? Did you stand in Duffy Square?
- [22:57]
B
Yeah, I probably teared up a little bit.
- [22:59]
A
So here's a pinnacle. It was like something that you aspire to, right? As a kid staying at the ymca, did that feel successful?
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, I love storytelling. So when stories come full circle, that kind of feels like happiness to me in a way. And it's like it felt successful because in a sense, like going back to your original question, how do you mean success like this a way that industry measures success, how it's for your career. But then it's for like the inner kid in me that at some point when I was a kid, set out to do something in life and finally 20 something years later achieved it, that I wouldn't say it felt successful. It felt like happiness.
- [23:45]
A
Happiness, yeah.
- [23:47]
B
And that kind of, maybe it's a nice segue into why I kind of decided to quit the industry a little bit. Have you decided to quit the agency business? Yes. I don't see myself going back.
- [23:59]
A
And why?
- [24:00]
B
When I was growing up in Argentina, I had my first job as a copywriter. I was a junior copywriter and I have a partner, another director who's a very, very good friend of mine. And at that moment the goal was, wouldn't it be amazing to be the ECD of Guayana in Argentina? That was the dream, right? Top job, creative Yana, the best agency in Argentina. Back then. There came a moment that is like that was my goal. And I ended up being a global CCO for WPP company in New York. And it dawned on me that isn't that enough? I achieved way more than I imagined I was going to achieve. I was incredibly happy with my achievements. I feel that I lived it all and I don't need more. And I know there's more I could have gone on to.
- [25:00]
A
But you didn't totally feel that way, right? I mean, in some ways it's hard to get off the hamster wheel.
- [25:06]
B
Yeah, it's very hard because like the money, the ego, all of those things that we've been discussing, it's hard, but sometimes. But when you get off, when you get off, it's like. And you stop and look around, you say, wait, well, I'm gonna jump into the hamster wheel. There's this funny thing in Argentina, in Spanish, actually the word for career is the same word for race. Like race, like a sprint race, a marathon. And the funny thing is when you think about a race, let's say like whether you're running a 10K, you're running the New York Marathon, you're running the hundred meters flat, you go, you run, you finish and then you enjoy. Where's the enjoyment? When does it come the moment to enjoy? At 65, when I'm old and tired.
- [25:56]
A
65 people live to like 100 now.
- [25:58]
B
Well, I don't know. I had kidneys, I've been living with a transplant for about 20 years. So I don't know. That made me much more aware of my mortality. I don't know what's my lifespan. But it came a moment that I want to enjoy life, I want to see more, I want to try other things. And that's the thing, like I said, I was a 18 year old kid with big dreams and eyes on, on a billboard in Times Square. I did it, I saw it and then I grew up and then I changed. And that thing that I loved, like all relationships, sometimes you still love it, but maybe it's time for something new. And I'm passionate about many, many other things and say, why maybe not try something different from a different way to work to doing something completely different.
- [26:51]
A
You said something that I want to dig into, which is you like to learn like me, because I also love to learn. Like what do you think it is about you that wants to continually learn?
- [27:01]
B
First, I'm very curious. Second one I think is an ego check. The idea of putting yourself in the position of being a beginner. I think that's absolutely amazing. Especially when you come from an industry that is so ego building in a way. So it kind of started when I moved to Tokyo. When I say, okay, Tokyo is a weird adventure. I'm like moving literally to the other side of the world. I don't know what will happen. So I go to Japan and say, I don't know what's going to happen. But you know what? I want to get another language out of this, I'm going to learn Japanese, which seems impossible, definitely hard. But everybody says, no, you cannot learn a language when you're 40 years old. Only kids can learn a new language. And I said, why? And then I tried. And obviously I skipped most of my lessons because work. But I did learn how to speak Japanese and I sound decent and I can have a basic conversation. Now every time I go to Tokyo, I arrive to customs, I have a conversation in Japanese, I get into a taxi driver, I tell them what I want.
- [28:07]
A
Okay, that's amazing.
- [28:08]
B
So I can get around. Yeah, people are pretty impressed about that. And then I said, that's amazing to learn something new. And then he came to New York. And again, tennis is a very aesthetic sport. I'm a big, massive fan of Roger Federer. So I love the aesthetics and the movements and the athleticism. And now we thought boxing had a lot of that artistry. And then a friend of mine said, hey, look, I was working at Huge in Brooklyn and right around the corner was this very famous boxing gym called Gleason's. And somebody at Huge, hey, do you want to come? I go to Gleason's and I have a teacher is cheap. He's like, for people who don't know how to throw a punch, but he'll teach you the basics. And then again, at 40 something, I went into a gym that was full of young kids, hunger, hungry for like world championships. And here I am, like 40 something white idiot that doesn't know how to throw a punch. And people were looking at me, who is this fucker? And that feeling of you don't know what the fuck you're doing and eventually overcome that and learn. And after years of taking lessons with different teachers, feel that I can look like a box and say, that's amazing. And then I learned how to ride motorcycles as an adult. And then eventually I took that to the truck. So I ride motorcycles like, you're not.
- [29:37]
A
Going to be sitting still in this next chapter. I'm pretty sure about that.
- [29:40]
B
No, I know that I'm going to be learning stuff and I want to be trying new stuff. But I love the idea of feeling like a beginner because first everything feels new. It's the idea of always finding something where you need to overcome your rookiness and getting to a certain level where you feel like, fuck, I made it this kind of that level of accomplishment, no matter how small it is because I don't get into the ring and I'm not the fastest on a track and I occasionally fall, but Is that kind of, hey, I tried this and I did it.
- [30:15]
A
But it also comes with the sense of like it's okay to say, I don't know.
- [30:18]
B
Yeah.
- [30:19]
A
No matter how successful or how many awards you've won.
- [30:21]
B
And I think that it's quite humbling.
- [30:24]
A
Last night I was at dinner with a whole group of people in their 30s who are in the advertising business. And I have a daughter who's in her 20s. If you were starting out early in your career, what would you want to know? Because as you said, looking back, you connect the dots and we know the business is in the creative business anyways, in a very different place today than when we started. What's your piece of advice? People tell my daughter, don't get into the creative industry. Which I just find so crazy because if that's your passion, isn't that the thing you should be pursuing?
- [30:56]
B
Whatever you do, it requires an incredible effort. Nothing comes easy in life. And that's why I love the idea of becoming a beginner and trying new things. Like, I didn't know how to ride a motorcycle. I couldn't put it on first, I didn't know how to turn it on. It took quite an effort to become a rider and it took an extra effort to ride that, I don't know, 150 miles an hour on a track. And it takes a lot of perfecting in whatever you do in life. It takes that kind of work. And to me the only way to put up with it is to love it, to love what you do. And I might be out of the industry and I might have a love hate relationship or a hate hate relationship, but I'm still obsessed about the creative process. To me, there's nothing more amazing than sitting with a blank piece of paper and coming up with something out of thin air.
- [32:01]
A
Would you tell somebody in their early 20s to go into the advertising business?
- [32:05]
B
Oof, probably not.
- [32:09]
A
Well, what if they're creative, they're passionate about creativity, where would you send them?
- [32:13]
B
I would tell them to be in the creative business.
- [32:16]
A
But what is a creative business? I mean, with the threat of AI, like what is creativity today?
- [32:20]
B
Let me give you an example. Again, very good friend of mine, since my 20s, she was my boss on my one of my first job. I started at a radio station as a copywriter and now she's a very big deal in Coca Cola. Massive job. She comes to New York, she tells me, hey, can you take me shopping? Yeah. So we're riding an Uber in the middle of soho. We're talking about our careers. And she tells me, I'm so jealous of you. Like, why? Because you can do whatever the fuck you want. Like, what do you mean I can only work in an advertising agency? She said, no, with your mind, with your brain, with your creativity, you can actually be on anything. The only thing I can do is be an executive for Coca Cola. That's it. And that kind of opened my mind. And if you take a look at the young creatives today, they can be whatever they want to be. Creatives is like, at my age, if you. If you will, we know how to build brands. We come up with business ideas all the time. And sometimes they're little tiny business, tiny ideas that we give to our clients and they do a tiny run and we win a bronze because we came up with this. What if we just take those little ideas that we come up every single day and instead of finding an agency, not a client, to sell the idea so we can make it happen, what if we find people putting money and we're building and we turn into a real business? Because advertising has changed. It's no longer about coming up with a TV ad or coming up with a print ad. Now we come with business ideas, with innovations for products. Then we could be anything. Any creative today from the advertising business, come up with an idea that could kickstart a known business and find a venture capitalist and build the whole thing from scratch.
- [34:17]
A
AI. I mean, you can't have a conversation about creativity and not talk about AI today.
- [34:21]
B
I think it's quite interesting because when I grew up in advertising, you started doing the menial jobs, and that's how you learn the craft. You go wrote a piece of copy 1000 times and you brought it to your creative director, and he would give you feedback and feedback and feedback and feedback until you get it right. There is a part of that that I feel is going to disappear quite quickly. And not because kids are not worth it anymore. It's just because of the economy that we live in. Like, if you have a junior copywriter, he goes, he writes something, he brings it back. He goes, right, he brings it back. And you can go for a week now, you can have that with AI within seconds. And you don't have to teach AI. You don't have to treat well AI. They don't have excuses. They are not. They never get tired, they never get angry. So it's getting quite hard in that sense. Because learning the craft, it was at least how I. How I learned it. This was by doing. And now you have a Machine doing it for you.
- [35:30]
A
And I used to learn by being in the office watching other people do it. And now I don't know.
- [35:34]
B
People don't always go in the office of the office. So it's changing radically. So if I would give advice to anyone, develop good taste. And I don't know how you do it. Talk to people, read a lot, see everything. Be voracious about the kind of content you consume. But the fastest thing or the best thing you can do is build amazing taste and a unique taste. I think AI makes a lot of things faster. I think you cannot replace the human element. Not yet. There's still maybe never.
- [36:08]
A
Maybe never.
- [36:08]
B
Hopefully never.
- [36:09]
A
Hopefully never.
- [36:10]
B
But yeah, AI will come up with 100 ideas in a second. But there's going to be somebody yet saying this is the one. And that in the end is to me is just gut feeling. Experience, taste.
- [36:24]
A
I say it's like having a good intern. You still have to check it. You still have to do the thinking yourself and figure out the context.
- [36:30]
B
Yeah. The thing is coming incredibly fast.
- [36:31]
A
We're going to do five rapid fire questions.
- [36:34]
B
Yeah.
- [36:34]
A
Which is much less reflective. What would be your karaoke or walk on song?
- [36:40]
B
Hallelujah.
- [36:40]
A
Leonard Cohen reflective. What's the food you'd bring to a potluck?
- [36:44]
B
There's this sandwiches in Argentina what you would call a finger sandwich. But it's kind of a much, much better version which is called sanguche de miga.
- [36:55]
A
Okay.
- [36:55]
B
Which is the most amazing thing in the world. From Argentina. I would bring that.
- [36:58]
A
If you had an alternative career path that you considered, what would it have been?
- [37:03]
B
Failed professional tennis player. But probably if I could pick right now, it would be fashion related.
- [37:09]
A
What are you reading or watching?
- [37:11]
B
Because I mean this kind of feel good reflective mood. I kind of rewatch for the end time. Ted Lasso.
- [37:18]
A
I know. I love that show.
- [37:20]
B
I believe, I think it kind of. Obviously it came from the. During the pandemic and all those things. But I think it helped me. I was. I remember the first episode is like who is this fucking idiot? And then it wins you over. And I would love to believe that. And I hate when people go on LinkedIn they do Ted Lasso posts. But these ideas of you don't know what the other is going through and just try to be kinder. And I don't think I'm necessarily the kindest person in the world, but I would love to be.
- [37:58]
A
What would be something that people who've worked with you would be surprised to learn about you?
- [38:03]
B
Probably the kidney transplant Part.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah, I didn't know that and I did research on you. Final. We're gonna leave them with a question. What's the one piece of advice you think we should leave people with? Wow, I know one piece. It's hard.
- [38:16]
B
I would say don't worry that much. Things will eventually fall into place without you even knowing. That's my friends make a joke. Oh, if you would go to like young little Fede, what would you say? Like that 18 year old kid starting advertising, so anxious about everything, what would you sense? Like it'll eventually happen. And so I feel that we live with a massive amount of anxiety and I think it's today even more. And because of all the social media, the constant comparison and that they're grown with social media which everything is immediate response but life is not immediate response and you need to wait a lot of time for things to happen and gives you more anxiety than ever. I would say that take it easy, enjoy the ride. Things eventually will fall into place.
- [39:08]
A
I can't thank you enough for your post, which I loved.
- [39:12]
B
Thank you for making me famous.
- [39:14]
A
I don't think I made you famous. And thank you so much for being here. I mean I just.
- [39:18]
B
It was an absolute pleasure.
- [39:19]
A
You had such an incredible ride and to be able to share that with others no matter what part they are in their career, sharing the messy parts, I think that's how we actually can pay it back.
- [39:28]
B
In the end it's like look, if I can help somebody just by telling my story story that would be amazing because it's not perfect. There's a lot of bumps in the road, you never know. Like it's kind of happy. I ended up where in a way I wanted to be or much better than when I wanted to be. But all the plans that made along the way they gone sideways. But eventually it happened anyways.
- [39:54]
A
Well, thank you again, I really appreciate it.