Podcast Summary: The Messy Parts with Maryam Banikarim

Episode: Finding Light in the Darkness: Writer Jonathan Merritt on Faith, Courage, and Starting Over
Date: October 27, 2025
Guest: Jonathan Merritt, VP at Simon & Schuster

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and deeply personal conversation between host Maryam Banikarim and writer/editor Jonathan Merritt. The main theme revolves around navigating identity, faith, and profound life transitions—especially coming out as gay in a conservative evangelical environment. Jonathan shares the messy, pivotal moments that shaped his career and personal life, emphasizing the power of vulnerability, courage, and finding light in darkness. The discussion offers honest reflections, practical advice for those facing hardship, and insights into the worlds of publishing and spiritual growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jonathan’s Upbringing in Evangelical Georgia

• Background: Jonathan grew up in suburban Atlanta as the middle child of a prominent Southern Baptist megachurch pastor, with family life under public scrutiny.
  • “We were sort of the mascots for our community.” (02:16)
• Expectation vs. Reality: Sundays at home were chaotic but appearances were crucial: “When that minivan door opened, we were like new people.” (02:39)
• Culture of the 1990s: Christian subculture was all-encompassing—movies, T-shirts, and schools.
• On Rebellion: Opportunities to rebel were limited due to the tight-knit and insular nature of the community.

2. Early Awareness of Difference & Pressure to Conform

• On Knowing He Was Different: “When I go back in my mind, there's not a point where I don’t have an awareness that I knew that I was not like the other kids in a fundamental way. And I knew that my difference was dangerous.” (03:57)
• Community Norms: Ingested unspoken rules about belonging, with big consequences for stepping outside them—“You learn really quickly to obey the rules and color inside the lines.” (06:03)
• The Southern Baptist Context: Jonathan explains the denomination's dark origins and its central role in conservative American Christianity. (05:02)

3. Career Path & Unexpected Call to Writing

• Early Ambitions: Initially planned to be a medical missionary, majoring in biology and chemistry at Liberty University.

• Pivot Point: “I heard a voice inside me... and it said, you're gonna write.” (07:09)

• Starting Out: Took on jobs no one else wanted—writing book and movie reviews for Christian magazines for minimal pay.

• Seminary Years: Attended Southern Baptist Seminary to deepen his knowledge for religion writing.

• Breakthrough: Moved up to writing for major outlets like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and The Washington Post.

  “Turns out I was a good writer. That’s right. I didn’t know that. And then I did.” (09:28)

4. Professional Success vs. Personal Authenticity

• Public Voice: Achieved recognition as a writer and insider critic of evangelicalism, exposing hypocrisy and prompting familial conflict.
• Masking Reality: Felt “seen in my rage,” but deeper authenticity remained “quarantined.” (11:41)
• Parallel to His Father: Both sought recognition and a public voice, though in different arenas.

5. The Cost of Hiding & The Journey Toward Courage

• Delayed Authenticity: Didn’t fully embrace his sexuality until nearly 30, feeling “trapped” for years.

• Professional and Personal Stakes: “My number one trigger now is feeling stuck or trapped… I spent the first nearly 30 years of my life feeling trapped in that.” (12:52)

• Coping Techniques: Developed the practice of radical honesty and spiritual routines, emphasizing alignment between inner truth and outward behavior.

  “All great spiritual traditions will tell you this, right? You live in alignment. The thing that’s inside matches the behavior on the outside.” (14:49)

6. Taking Inventory & Building Courage

• Practical Advice: “Take a fierce moral inventory and say, what are the ways that I’m living my life that are not reflective of my true self… and then this question is, well, what do you do with awareness? There are virtues that I think we have to work on to nurture that allow us or create the possibility for transformation. And one of those is courage.” (16:29)
• Preaching When Disconnected: Continued to teach and write while hiding his true self, underscoring the difficulty of shifting out of deep misalignment.

7. The Messy Moment—Being Outed

• Outed Publicly: A former friend outed Jonathan online after misinterpreting one of his published articles.

  “I click it, and it goes to an article written by this person I had mistaken to be a friend. And I knew my life was over. My life, as I had always known it, was over.” (21:21)

• Emotional Fallout: Described the event as shocking and paralyzing—a turning point that forced him to reckon with the consequences and ultimately prompted a family crisis response.

8. Crisis, Redemption, and Leaving Home

• Crisis Communications at Church: Told his story openly to the congregation, with his father responding with public compassion (“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”) (26:04)

• Mixed Reactions: Some friends left; most showed surprising compassion but only if he refrained from “doing gay things.”

• The Whisper to Leave: Felt called to leave, eventually moving to New York after selling his belongings and leaving the church.

  “And I hear the whisper again… it said, you have to leave this place. And I knew that it had told me the truth.” (27:45)

9. Family, Community, and NYC

• Family Ties: Parents were mystified but didn’t reject him, mirroring Billy Graham’s example (“I would love him even more.”) (30:09)
• Building New Community in NYC: Miraculous friendships and professional breakthroughs followed his leap of faith.
  • “I began people who were Christian in the way that I was becoming were reaching out to me from all over the country… my professional career really explodes in New York in a way that it had not in Georgia.” (32:34)

10. Finding Light in Darkness

• Mess Leads to Success: The hardships and losses created new, unexpected opportunities and deeper capacities for courage.

  “There’s always light in the darkness, and you have to look for it… Rather than wake up and dwell on the ocean of sadness that I was also living in, I would wake up and say, I can't do anything about the sadness I feel. But what I can do today is I can reckon with the possibility that exists and I can step into that.” (33:47, 34:55)

11. Practical Lessons for Hard Times

• The Gift of Breath: Regardless of losses, the first gift is simply being alive.

  “My life could be falling apart right now, but I have my breath. I’m here when I could be not.” (35:17)

• Spirituality as Survival: Taking small steps to focus on possibilities and appreciating presence over despair.

12. Corporate Shift – Publishing Wisdom

• From Freelance to Corporate: Accepted a VP/editorial role at Simon & Schuster for reasons of stability and calling.
• The Real Story:

  “I began to realize what I wanted was security… I had spent—I think one of my core traumas growing up was I didn’t feel secure… And then I chose this career where you’re always kind of building the road so you don’t fall off the cliff.” (37:19)

• Publishing Insights:
  • Traditional vs. Self- and Hybrid Publishing explained (43:05)
  • The Importance of Audience: Platform now matters as much as writing skill.

    “If you want to get into traditional publishing, there's some bad news and then some good news. The bad news is... platform matters.” (43:05)

  • Authenticity is everything: “People have, like, you know, bullshit sniffers… what people really, really crave is authenticity and vulnerability.” (45:25)

13. Embracing the Mess

• On Modern Careers:
  • College degrees are not essential (46:35)
  • Don’t sign multi-book contracts—life is dynamic (46:41)
• Advice to Younger Self: “It’s going to be okay” and “Fall in love.” (47:09)
• On Resilience: Solitude and community, inspired by Mr. Rogers: “I like you just the way you are.” (47:38)
• Messiness as Normal & Valuable:

  “Messy is very much in. I trust messy more than I trust put together, cause who's put together? Nobody is not messy. So if somebody is pretending to be not messy, I know that they've either lost touch with themselves or they're a liar.” (46:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You have to look for the light in the darkness.” (00:13, 33:47 - Jonathan)
• “I always knew I was different… and I knew my difference was dangerous.” (03:57 - Jonathan)
• “Radical honesty, giving ourselves the freedom to use words in ways that truly reflect what we feel.” (14:49 - Jonathan)
• “Take a fierce moral inventory… courage is the virtue you have to nurture to allow transformation.” (16:29 - Jonathan)
• “I knew my life was over. My life, as I had always known it, was over.” (21:21 - Jonathan, on being outed)
• “If the thing that he feared the worst was true, he would love me even more.” (30:09 - Jonathan about his father's commitment)
• “Every single one of those [messes] has led me to this moment… to the graces of today that allow you to live not with regret, but with gratitude.” (49:28 - Jonathan)
• “Messy is very much in. I trust messy more than I trust put together.” (46:12 - Jonathan)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Childhood and Growing Up Evangelical: 01:37 – 06:24
• Realizing He Was Different & Religious Indoctrination: 03:54 – 06:24
• Career Pivot & Writing Journey: 06:31 – 09:45
• Recognition & Public Masking: 10:07 – 11:59
• Advice on Living Authentically: 12:52 – 16:29
• Radical Honesty & Courage: 14:44 – 18:03
• Outing Story and Fallout: 18:24 – 24:07
• Crisis Response at Church: 24:57 – 27:45
• Moving to NYC and Building a New Life: 27:47 – 33:27
• Finding Light, Resilience, and Breath: 33:44 – 36:25
• Shift to Corporate Job & Publishing Insights: 36:31 – 45:20
• Rapid Fire - Career Myths and Advice: 46:32 – 49:28

Final Reflections

Jonathan Merritt’s journey is a testament to the power of authenticity, vulnerability, and courage amid profound change. His story offers hope, practical wisdom, and a reminder that the messy parts of life are often where the most meaningful growth occurs.

For listeners facing uncertainty or feeling stuck, Jonathan’s advice resonates: Focus on small acts of courage, honor your true self, and remember that even when all seems lost, “there’s always light in the darkness.”