"I Don't Know How to Balance All of This": Faherty Co-Founder Kerry Docherty on Business, Marriage, and Choosing Yourself

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I Don't Know How to Balance All of This": Faherty Co-Founder Kerry Docherty on Business, Marriage, and Choosing Yourself

Podcast: The Messy Parts
Host: Maryam Banikarim
Guest: Kerry Docherty, Co-Founder of Faherty Brand
Date: June 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, deeply personal conversation with Kerry Docherty—lawyer, writer, mindfulness practitioner, and co-founder of the sustainable surf lifestyle brand, Faherty. Host Maryam Banikarim and Kerry explore the messiness of building a business with family, grappling with secrets, redefining "selfishness" as an act of service, and navigating seasons of marriage and personal authenticity. Kerry’s journey is illuminated through stories from her new memoir, Selfish, which unpacks childhood secrets, partnership, entrepreneurship, and the complex path to choosing oneself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growing Up with Secrets and the Cost of Not Sharing

• Idyllic Childhood & Unspoken Truths: Kerry grew up as the middle child in a "content" Irish Catholic family near Lake Erie, taking on the "peacemaker" role from a young age (02:04).
• Family Dynamics & Secrecy: Secrets—like her father's cancer—were shielded from the children, reflecting generational and cultural norms of not discussing difficult topics (04:16).
• Writing as Processing: There’s a family tradition of journaling. Kerry draws parallels between her memoir and her mother's habit of recording secrets privately (05:33).
• The Burden of Secrets: Both Kerry and Maryam reflect on how secrets, meant to protect, also create shame and disconnect. “There's a cost to not sharing...to pretending...to not talking about the messy parts” (06:45, Interviewer).

Notable Quote

“When we share the messy, shameful, scary parts of ourselves, even if we're not fully out of that cycle, it is an act of service because it is a form of intimacy with humanity.”
—Kerry Docherty (07:13)

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2. Reclaiming ‘Selfishness’

• Challenging the “Good Girl” Script: Kerry discusses how society grooms women to be “kind, generous, smiling, and put other people first” at the expense of their own needs (03:14).
• Redefining the Term: Instead of seeing "selfish" as a negative, Kerry reframes it as allowing all parts of oneself to exist—even the contradictory and messy—in service to deeper authenticity and connection (08:05).
• Interconnectedness: Quoting Prentice Hemphill: “The self is not an individual...We are also deeply connected” (08:33).

Notable Quote

“I think that's what this book hopes to start conversation around is how do we define selfish and how do we reclaim it? So it's not an insult. It's actually a declaration of, I am allowing all different parts of me to exist, even if they're messy.”
—Kerry Docherty (08:05)

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3. Meeting Her Husband & The Family Business

• Origin Story: Met her husband, Alex, on the first day of college—both athletes, from large Irish Catholic families with a culture of secrets and limited emotional expression (08:50).
• Launching Faherty Brand: After law school and social justice work, Kerry joined the business her husband and his twin brother started, living and working together in extremely close quarters, navigating undefined roles, boundaries, and financial stresses (12:23 - 14:47).
• Willingness to Sacrifice: Kerry describes giving up her own dreams temporarily, influenced in part by a psychic’s advice to "go with the flow" of the brand's momentum (14:14).

Notable Quote

“The business became our foreplay at times. It was like our queen size bed was our conference room.”
—Kerry Docherty (16:03)

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4. The Reality of Working with Your Partner

• Blurred Lines: Living, working, and building a business together places enormous strain on the marriage, with work often seeping into every moment (16:03).
• Advice for Couples in Business: Start couples therapy early, define roles clearly, and have explicit conversations about value and compensation: “It really brings up a lot of conversations around value. How do we discern value?” (17:14).
• Negotiating Value: The couple’s therapy session to negotiate Kerry’s salary highlighted deeper issues of worth, emotional labor, and the intersection of marriage and business (17:12 - 20:23).

Notable Quote

“I wish we had started couples therapy earlier. I wish we had very clear conversations around what different roles would be.”
—Kerry Docherty (16:28)

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5. Navigating Burnout and Authentic Needs

• Burnout and Survival Mode: Kerry describes periods of deep burnout, feeling there was “no room to be heard” due to the non-stop survival mode of the startup (22:08).
• Suppression of Feeling: Reflects on how capitalism and startup culture often require people to shut down parts of themselves to keep going (22:33).
• Financial Stress: Behind the brand’s carefree image was years of serious financial instability (23:06).

Notable Quote

“To the outside world, you're like a carefree surf brand...then there was also a part of me that was completely breaking down.”
—Kerry Docherty (23:28)

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6. Marriage at a Crossroads & Commitment as a Choice

• Inflection Point: Kerry and Alex both questioned if they still wanted to be married. Kerry likens marriage to a year-to-year contract, emphasizing the importance of actively choosing each other, not feeling stuck (24:00).
• The Coachella Reveal: Kerry recounts developing deep, ambiguous feelings for another man—an artist—which represented a part of herself she wanted to reclaim (25:05 - 26:02).
• The Letter to Beau: Her husband discovered her feelings via a letter she wrote in a writing class, leading to emotional devastation but also honesty and reconnection (27:03 - 28:29).

Notable Quote

“At some point, I realized that being a peacemaker also meant feeling at peace with myself. And so sometimes I'm willing to sacrifice my peace for conflict if it feels honoring and aligned with my needs.”
—Kerry Docherty (21:39)

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7. Radical Honesty, Healing, and Family

• Aftermath: The emotional impact of the “letter incident” forced Kerry and Alex to finally see each other’s pain and begin to rebuild from a place of honesty—both in private and at work (28:47 - 30:06).
• Family Reaction: Kerry’s memoir is deeply honest, including stories of her body and sex life. Her family’s reactions vary but overall, her father, initially alarmed, has become deeply proud of her authenticity (32:39).
• Writing as Healing: The writing process and sharing her truth has been profoundly transformative: “All of the messiness and all of the pain and all of the consequences that come from telling the truth—on the other flip side of that is intimacy.” (31:16)

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8. Gender, Selfishness, and Ambition

• Double Standards: Discusses how men who sacrifice for business are called “ambitious” or “breadwinners,” whereas women are often called “selfish” for pursuing their needs (34:15).

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9. Advice and Reflections

• On Staying True to Yourself:
  • “Become acutely aware of how things make you feel and lean into things that make you feel alive—not necessarily what feels good short term.” (34:34)
• On Salary Negotiation:
  • Write down the number you want, the reasons, and deliver it with neutrality—bringing less fear or neediness to the negotiation (36:18).
• On Retail and Business:
  • “Just love problems—because there’s a lot of them.” (38:52)

Rapid Fire Highlights

• Messiest Moments: Parenting day to day (35:02)
• Last Time She Cried: Three days ago (35:17)
• Current role: Advisor for impact activities during book launch; formerly Chief Impact Officer (35:29 - 35:40)
• AI in Retail: Not using generative AI yet, but exploring AI for backend/inventory (38:59)
• Prenups & Boundaries: Early governance and boundaries often overlooked in the chaos of startup, need to plan exit strategies even at the start (37:10 - 37:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the value of sharing messiness:

  “When we share the messy, shameful, scary parts of ourselves, even if we're not fully out of that cycle, it is an act of service because it is a form of intimacy with humanity to be able to connect with people and their messiness as well.”
  —Kerry Docherty (07:13)

• On the meaning of 'selfish':

  “I think that's what this book hopes to start conversation around is how do we define selfish and how do we reclaim it? So it's not an insult. It's actually a declaration of, I am allowing all different parts of me to exist, even if they're messy.”
  —Kerry Docherty (08:05)

• On working with a spouse:

  “The business became our foreplay at times...our queen size bed was our conference room.”
  —Kerry Docherty (16:03)

• On boundaries in a family business:

  “I wish we had started couples therapy earlier. I wish we had very clear conversations around what different roles would be.”
  —Kerry Docherty (16:28)

• On parenting, work, and entrepreneurship:

  “Feherty was a child, but Feherty didn't love me back. Like, I wanted a child that loved me back.”
  —Kerry Docherty (33:14)

• Advice for negotiating a raise:

  “Write down the salary you want with the number, the reasons you believe that you should get it, and then share that. From a place of neutrality...that vibration [fear/anxiety] is the loudest in the room.”
  —Kerry Docherty (36:18)

• Retail wisdom:

  “Just love problems—because there’s a lot of them.”
  —Kerry Docherty (38:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:04 – Kerry’s childhood and family secrets
• 06:15 – On sharing vs. secrecy and the cost
• 08:05 – Redefining “selfish”
• 12:23 – Joining & building Faherty with family
• 16:03 – Boundaries and marriage in business
• 17:12 – Couples therapy and negotiating value
• 22:08 – Burnout and survival mode
• 24:00 – Marriage as a choice; honesty about leaving
• 26:02 – Kerry’s letter to Beau and marital rupture
• 28:47 – Aftermath and rebuilding honesty
• 31:16 – The lesson of messiness: intimacy
• 33:14 – Having a child vs. the business as a “child”
• 34:34 – Advice: what makes you feel alive
• 36:18 – Salary negotiation advice
• 38:52 – Advice for entering retail

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Final Thoughts

This episode spotlights how embracing and sharing the messy, unspoken parts of our stories creates deeper connection and, ultimately, a richer, more authentic life. Kerry’s journey—through entrepreneurial grit, marital strife and reconnection, painful vulnerability, and radical honesty—offers actionable wisdom for anyone navigating their own “messy parts.” Her message is especially resonant for women learning to reclaim the word “selfish” as a badge of self-respect and interdependence.

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For more insights, personal stories, and honest conversations on navigating the twists and turns of extraordinary careers, tune in to “The Messy Parts” every Monday with Maryam Banikarim.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

In the moment your husband discovers.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. That I'm having deep. I'm. That I'm having deep feelings for another man.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yes. It's not just theoretical. Like this actually happened.

[Carrie Doherty]

Exactly. And there were definitely lines that were crossed.

[Interviewer]

So how did he find out?

[Carrie Doherty]

My husband knew of the friendship. But in 2020, I joined a writing collective. I was given a prompt. Carrie, write a letter that you'll never send. And I wrote a letter to the character Beau, who's in the book. And I really highlighted my feelings for him. There was a woman in the class who, after I need to tell you, I was very triggered by that piece. So me and this woman go out to dinner and as we're talking about it, my phone buzzes and I look at the text and it's from Alex. And he said, hi. I read your letter to Beau. Today.

[Interviewer]

On the messy parts. We have on Carrie Doherty. She's one of the founders of Farity, a surf lifestyle, brand new that she started with her husband, his identical brother, and her mother in law. Now, working with your husband, as I can tell you, is not always easy. There's definitely messy parts, but also amazing parts. Now, in this case, she's written a memoir that unpacks the secrets of her childhood, but also reveals a lot about being married to her husband and business partner. A lot of messy parts. And let me tell you a lot of bravery and actually telling these stories out loud and for all of us to hear and unpack. So thank you so much for coming. I love that you're on the blue couch and, you know, you just wrote a book called Selfish, which is, as a marketer, a very good title, but also a really interesting question. Yes. And before we dig into the book, I want to start with sort of the young Carrie. Right. Because all of our stories start somewhere usually at the beginning. You know, you were a kid who grew up near Lake Erie. Seemed very idyllic when I read about it. Tell us a little bit about what you were like as a kid and what it was like growing up in a house with secrets.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. So I grew up in Buffalo, New York, in a suburb and middle child, older brother, younger sister. And I was the quintessential happy go lucky. The peacemaker. Loved to be in the spotlight, loved to make sure everyone was okay. I do not like conflict. And so at a young age, I started to take on the role as the peacemaker. So how can I ensure that everything's okay?

[Interviewer]

Does every family have a peacemaker?

[Carrie Doherty]

Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Although I think people Would probably say the middle child can play that role. But I was definitely the peacemaker.

[Interviewer]

Well, I'm definitely an older child, and I definitely am also a peacemaker, so that's interesting. Okay, so you grow up in a family where you're the middle child, clearly the peacemaker. Why is the middle child? Was your role to be the peacemaker? Like, what was going on where you needed to keep peace?

[Carrie Doherty]

I don't know. And I think a lot of it is family dynamics. I grew up in a pretty content family household, but we are quintessentially Irish Catholic, where we didn't talk about things that might be unfolding.

[Interviewer]

It seems like an idyllic family life. And I think, you know, probably generationally, too, our parents used to not share as much.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes, of course. Of course. And there's no blame there. I think, you know, there are family operating systems that work for a reason. I found myself to be groomed at a young age, and this is not just a family, but by society as a woman, to be kind, generous, smiling, and put other people first. I didn't just learn that in my home. I learned that in school. I learned that in college. I learned that from the media.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think it's bad to be kind?

[Carrie Doherty]

It's not bad to be kind.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Carrie Doherty]

Right. Yes. I think a lot of the attributes that I had are amazing attributes. But if I'm serving other people's needs without filling my own well or noting what my needs are, that's when there starts to become a disconnect.

[Interviewer]

So I read that your dad had cancer and nobody talked about it. And it's interesting because my mom had cancer when I was in ninth grade, and it was like it wasn't happening. I only remember once going to Stanford Hospital. To this day, people are like, what kind of cancer? I'm like, I don't know. Cause we didn't talk about it. So much so that I actually don't remember anymore. But that also happened in your household. Yes.

[Carrie Doherty]

And I don't know if that was necessarily the, quote, unquote, wrong thing to do. You know, I open up the book about the spooky story Jenny with a Green Ribbon, about a little girl who always wears a green ribbon around her neck. And people say, why do you wear the green ribbon? She doesn't tell anyone. She gets married. Her husband asks her why she wears the green ribbon. On her deathbed, she tells her husband, you can take off the green ribbon.

[Interviewer]

You can find out for yourself why wear the green ribbon?

[Carrie Doherty]

And her head falls Off. And I jumped in glee when I heard this story as a kid, because I wondered, was Jenny being selfish for carrying the secret of her own fragility for so long such that other people wouldn't worry about her?

[Interviewer]

How old were you when you read the story?

[Carrie Doherty]

Probably nine, 10. And, you know, it's not dissimilar to my dad. He didn't want to worry us. He thought this was an act of selflessness to not share the truth about what was happening. Happening in his life so as to protect us from having hard feelings.

[Interviewer]

So when did you find. I mean, you didn't find out till years later.

[Carrie Doherty]

Decade?

[Interviewer]

Decades. Somebody read.

[Carrie Doherty]

I remember your sister was, like, snooping

[Interviewer]

in my mom's journal and found out.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Well, first of all. Okay, that is already deep. She was snooping in your mom's journal. Wait, what?

[Carrie Doherty]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

What's happening in your house? Totally.

[Carrie Doherty]

Totally.

[Interviewer]

But your mom journaled, so she put her secrets in a book.

[Carrie Doherty]

My mom was an avid journaler. I'm an avid journaler. We love writing down our thoughts.

[Interviewer]

So your secrets are actually written. This is fascinating.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. And then look at me now. Like, essentially, this book is journal entries.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But also, this sense of, like, private and public was really, clearly. I mean, I grew up in a household where, you know, you. You put on a armor to the outside world. You did not share. Those were things you didn't talk about.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I think it was less about protecting us as much as it was, you know, that just was cultural. So, first of all, why do you think now? Because actually, you're sharing not just with your family, but with the world. Why do you think it was not good not to share in this book?

[Carrie Doherty]

I try not to make judgment calls of what was good or what was bad as much as how it affected me. What I learned was, if you do not feel like you can share certain things about yourself, it could be a seat of shame within.

[Interviewer]

I'm gonna say it's not good not to share because it's so funny, because you keep saying it's not a judgment call. And I don't know about judgment, because that feels like a very heavy word.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But the problem with secrets is that there's a cost.

[Carrie Doherty]

Absolutely right. So there is a cost.

[Interviewer]

There's a cost to not sharing. There's a cost to pretending there's a cost to not talking about the messy parts. Yes. For other people. 1. Because they don't know when the bad things happen to them that other people have gone through it. I remember a friend saying, to me once. Why didn't you tell me? Because, like, I was going through it, and even when she was going through something that was something that I'd experienced, I just never even talked. I never even said, oh, that also happened to me in that moment. It's not good for you. It's also not good for other people.

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, your podcast is based on messiness and allowing ourselves to share the truth and the inner, messy parts that are unresolved or that we're still in process. In. And that is an act of service. And I believe that to be true. I believe that when we share the messy, shameful, scary parts of ourselves, even if we're not fully out of that cycle, it is an act of service because it is a form of intimacy with humanity to be able to connect with people and their messiness as well.

[Interviewer]

In some ways, it's funny. I also think it's selfish because in. In speaking your truth, you're letting it go to some degree. Right. Maybe not fully, but there's some sense of you're not carrying it in the way that you've been carrying it before.

[Carrie Doherty]

So selfish to share or not to share?

[Interviewer]

No, it's selfish to share like, it's good for other people, but it's also good for you.

[Carrie Doherty]

And I think that's what this book hopes to start conversation around is how do we define selfish and how do we reclaim it? So it's not an insult. It's actually a declaration of, I am allowing all different parts of me to exist, even if they're contradictory, even if they're messy, even if they can cause harm to other people. And as I share in the book, the self is not an individual, which is a quote by Prentice Hempel. We are also deeply connected. Myself is connected to yourself. We're literally breathing in each other's air right now as we speak.

[Interviewer]

That's why I like doing these in person. Okay, so you go to college, you're an athlete. I love sort of that whole description of you being an athlete, and you show up in college and you meet your now husband.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. First day of college.

[Interviewer]

First day Spanish class. Yes. Walk me through what that was like. And did he come from a family that held onto secrets?

[Carrie Doherty]

He came from a very similar Irish Catholic family. He was an athlete as well. Youngest of seven kids. He walked into Spanish class wearing board shorts and Incredible Hulk tank top. He smelled like metal. Had just been in the weight room.

[Interviewer]

Smelled of metal. Okay, amazing. Did you share your messy stories with him?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think we both, as we Became more emotionally intimate, shared more about our background. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

All through your childhood, when your siblings struggled.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You were sort of not impacted by that. Or maybe you were.

[Carrie Doherty]

I think I was definitely impacted by it, but I don't think I necessarily had the self awareness to know how I was the one that was always fine. And I think there is a burden to bear from people who feel like they always have to be fine 100%

[Interviewer]

because there's no room for you to. Why would you talk about it? Because you're just adding to the weight of the family.

[Carrie Doherty]

And I convinced myself I was always fine. I mean, I share that I diagnosed myself with pre Enlightenment syndrome.

[Interviewer]

Wait, what is that?

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, I essentially just made it up. But that I. I am so fine all the time. I am perfectly okay at all times. And my therapist reminded me that's not true. You're just repressed.

[Interviewer]

It's like, I can so relate to this. Wait, when did you start going to therapy?

[Carrie Doherty]

Law school. Law school was pretty long.

[Interviewer]

Was therapy a thing in your family growing up? Because it definitely was not in my family.

[Carrie Doherty]

My mom saw a spiritual counselor.

[Interviewer]

Does that come with church? Like, where do you find one of those?

[Carrie Doherty]

I don't even know how she found it. We went to Catholic church, but it wasn't associated with the Catholic church.

[Interviewer]

But so not like traditional therapy.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Like lie on the couch going in therapy.

[Carrie Doherty]

My mom was like, if you have a problem, there are two places to go. You watch Oprah or you see a psychic or a spiritual person. Oh, okay.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing.

[Carrie Doherty]

Okay. And I'm not that dissimilar. Let me, let me.

[Interviewer]

Well, so you got into mindfulness early.

[Carrie Doherty]

I did, I did. And I really credit my mom. You know, my mom was a stay at home mom. Gave up a career at a young age, raised three kids. And I never really saw her outside of the identity of a mom like that. She didn't have needs. She was my mom. And then at the end of high school, we were at the dinner table and she said, I'm going to India for a month to become a yoga teacher.

[Interviewer]

I'm sorry, what?

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. And this is before the days of like, you know, Lululemons on every corner. And I remember my first question was, what is dad gonna do?

[Interviewer]

What did your dad do?

[Carrie Doherty]

My dad was fine. And my mom said, he will be fine. And he was fine. And when my mom got back from her yoga training, she was different. And I don't just mean. Cause she like wore mala beads on her wrist. And I don't think I could fully understand it at the time, but it planted a seed in me that my mom chose to do something that was very inconvenient, very entire family.

[Interviewer]

But somebody might say, oh, my God, really? She left her family.

[Carrie Doherty]

I'm sorry, meals and laundry for a month. How dare you? But it was such an act of service to me as her daughter. And I think that's where in the book, I love to explore these stories about what might have been selfish to her was actually such a gift and an act of service to me as her daughter.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so let me take you back to Yale. You meet your husband. He's one of seven, but actually has an identical twin.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

I'm Gonna Fast forward 10 years.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You guys all end up deciding to go into business together.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Including your mother in law.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

So four of you, in essence.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Into family business. And within 10 weeks, you and the twins are living together above the store and working together.

[Carrie Doherty]

Alex and I got married. Two weeks later, we moved in with his brother in law. They both quit their jobs. We built a trailer, essentially a mobile beach track on wheels. We took it cross country there and back. We were living out of a pickup truck, essentially.

[Interviewer]

Why were you doing that?

[Carrie Doherty]

This is 2013. We started the clothing brand called Faraday brand casual lifestyle clothing, bathing suits, flannels.

[Interviewer]

And the twins really grew up by the beach. They'd always dreamed of having this business,

[Carrie Doherty]

like an elevated surf brand. You know, it's hard to start a business. And we thought there was only one way to sell clothes. Get on the road, hand to hand combat, and start slanging flannels out of any parking lot that we can find.

[Interviewer]

Very Phil Knight of you, but okay.

[Carrie Doherty]

And so that's what we did. We eventually opened up a store. We couldn't pay our rent, so we lived above the store.

[Interviewer]

But that's a lot of togetherness. Let's just talk about that for a second, because it's not even just above the store. It's in a van.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

The three of you in a van together.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And how was that dynamic?

[Carrie Doherty]

You know, I think at the time it felt exciting. I wasn't really one that understood boundaries. I don't think any of us understood boundaries.

[Interviewer]

No, not a lot of seven children. No boundaries.

[Carrie Doherty]

No boundaries. And I also think when you start a family business, it is all hands on deck. And we were so obsessed with making sure that this, this business made it, because if it didn't, we were all going down with the ship.

[Interviewer]

But you were doing social justice, legal work. Before, like, I know that it was the boy's dream from childhood. It wasn't your dream from childhood. Why did you give up your dream or did you have a dream?

[Carrie Doherty]

I did have a dream. And I loved social justice. I loved mindfulness and psychic alert. One of the reasons why I joined is I saw a psychic and I said, you know, my husband has a startup. We are a startup as a marriage, and I have a startup. I was teaching mindfulness to lawyers at that time, and I don't know how to balance all of this. And the psychic said, faraday brand is a fast moving current. You cannot swim against it. Go with the flow. Join the brand and infuse your passions and gifts into the brand.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so you see the psychic as you're in a moment of transition and you're like, somebody give me a sign.

[Carrie Doherty]

Just, can someone just do the work for me and tell me what to do? It's like a spiritual choker. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I don't regret it. And we all joined. I fell in love with this company in a lot of ways. It brought my husband and I closer.

[Interviewer]

Well, you were together all the time.

[Carrie Doherty]

We were together all the time. And I did start to infuse some of my gifts around social justice and culture and philanthropy and community building, and I infused that into the brand.

[Interviewer]

Clearly, you got along with your. The other twin.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes, yes, yes. There's three of you. But of course we fought. I mean, it was a lot and it still is a lot. Working with your family is a lot.

[Interviewer]

So I, you know, started working with my husband, Andy, which I think you met him when you came in.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And we still hear him.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's hard, but also amazing at the same time.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. I think it can make or break a relationship. So when people are like, oh, I'm thinking about working with my husband, I don't ever give advice as to whether or not it's a good or bad idea. But I do say it will take you to the edges of your relationship in terms of what's working and what's

[Interviewer]

not working, because there's no boundaries. Sometimes my husband says, like, can we not talk about work? But, like, you talk about work all the time.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. I mean, the business became our foreplay at times. It was like our queen size bed was our conference room. There was no end of the day, we would get in bed and we would be hashing out, you know, marketing plans at 11:30 at night.

[Interviewer]

Because you're always on, always on he's better at turning it off than me. So if somebody is starting a business and is considering doing a business with their partner.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Do you have advice for them? Like, what have you learned when you look back and say, I wish I'd known this.

[Carrie Doherty]

I wish we had started couples therapy earlier. I wish we had very clear conversations around what different roles would be.

[Interviewer]

Did you know what your role was?

[Carrie Doherty]

No, none of us knew. We just jumped in. We each of us had seven jobs,

[Interviewer]

but one brother had. Your husband was in finance.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

His brother came from retail, worked at Ralph Lauren.

[Carrie Doherty]

He was a designer. Yes. Right.

[Interviewer]

You clearly had legal and other.

[Carrie Doherty]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

And your mother in law was a designer. So you had lanes.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes, we all had lanes. And I joke, we each only had a cord of a brain and so we kind of knew which part of our brain needed to be used for which part of the business. You know, the book opens with my husband and I in couple therapy negotiating my salary.

[Interviewer]

You have a lot to ask about that.

[Carrie Doherty]

So I think, you know, you ask what's the advice with working with your partner? Is it really brings up a lot of conversations around value. How do we discern value? Where does emotional labor, who's supporting who? I mean, it'll showcase so many different parts of the relationship that when you're getting married and exchanging your vows, you probably haven't discussed value.

[Interviewer]

Not in terms of, do you have shared values? Value as in like, what's your value to get paid? Because your couple's therapy session could have been about a lot of things, but it was actually about how much you should get paid versus your husband.

[Carrie Doherty]

And what is the quality of the work that is being done and how do we place value on that work?

[Interviewer]

You go into this couples therapy. Did you know that you were gonna be talking about this topic?

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. So literally went to the couples therapy to negotiate my salary.

[Interviewer]

Right, but you're married, so technically both of your salaries goes into the same pot. Sure. Yes. What do you mean yes? Common law.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes, sure, of course. Of course.

[Interviewer]

So it's different than what your brother in law might be getting paid.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

So why is that an issue? Because it's going to the same place. So why is there a need to delineate what one of you makes versus the other?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think from a financial independency and an autonomy perspective, I thought it was very important for me to. You know, we did have a shared bank account, but we, we mainly had separate bank accounts for most of our life.

[Interviewer]

So are you the one who wanted to have this conversation, because in reading it, I thought he was the one who.

[Carrie Doherty]

I think both of us, we were talking about how much should I get paid? He was CEO, the hardest role. I will give him credit. Being a CEO is one of the hardest jobs in the world.

[Interviewer]

When you started, did the four of you, including your mother in law who did all the design work, did you say this is how we're going to split it up?

[Carrie Doherty]

No, not really.

[Interviewer]

So at what point does that come up?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think it comes up when someone starts taking issue with it. And I think when you have a startup, you have to understand we started from scratch. Yeah, we had nothing, we had no roles, we had no money. We were hiring, you know, 23 year olds that we met on the road, come and join us. And so the, you know, corporate structure, roles, finances, all of that was a work in progress. And so we were in real time trying to look at this brand and be like, what is the information infrastructure behind it that makes people feel seen and validated?

[Interviewer]

So how many years in do you have this conversation about why you two should get married?

[Carrie Doherty]

Maybe two, two and a half years in.

[Interviewer]

And when did you have the conversation about how much your brother in law should get?

[Carrie Doherty]

That was less of the conversation about how much should the two of us get.

[Interviewer]

So you go to couples therapy and you're negotiating your salary. Unexpected thing to, you know, end up at. How does that impact your actual relationship?

[Carrie Doherty]

Well, I think the couples therapist was very much like, how do you feel valued? How do you feel? How are the two of you communicating? How are the two of you dealing with your own inner child wounds that might be exacerbating this situation? He made us do deeper work that was so much beyond money.

[Interviewer]

And he said something to you in that meeting that I remember that it was a little bit jarring.

[Carrie Doherty]

He said, you know, I should make more because I'm CEO and I have a bigger job scope and, and I'm just more committed to the brand and to the marriage, which I don't disagree with. And he said, and you just do what you want.

[Interviewer]

What does that mean?

[Carrie Doherty]

Well, I asked him, well, why don't you do what you want? And he said, because I'm not selfish. And that's how the book starts. Right.

[Interviewer]

But what does you do what you want mean? I don't even understand that.

[Carrie Doherty]

At some point I decided to become acutely aware of how things made me feel and I started to lean into things that made me feel more alive.

[Interviewer]

Like what?

[Carrie Doherty]

Making business decisions that maybe weren't great. For profit. But that made me feel like I was bringing my gifts to the table, making decisions around sustainability that caused production issues within the brand. But that was really important to me.

[Interviewer]

Meet as a board. Like, how did that decision.

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, there was no board at this time. It was, you know, it's the three of us and some of our team in a room at all hashing out these decisions.

[Interviewer]

How would you win that argument?

[Carrie Doherty]

I would just be annoyingly stubborn.

[Interviewer]

One of your gifts?

[Carrie Doherty]

One of my gifts, which is ironic because I'm a peacemaker and I don't like conflict. But at some point, I realized that being a peacemaker also meant feeling at peace with myself. And so sometimes I'm willing to sacrifice my peace for conflict if it feels honoring and aligned with my needs.

[Interviewer]

Did you at any point think to yourself, you know what? Like, you go do this business with your brother, I'm gonna step out and go pursue social justice like I had initially done.

[Carrie Doherty]

There were definitely times when, and I share this in the book, I started feeling extremely burned out.

[Interviewer]

Do you think you were heard when you had those moments?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think there wasn't a lot of room to be heard again. It was full survival mode. And so I think Alex and Mike both understood that I was burned out, but there was no time for burnout.

[Interviewer]

But also, they were burnt out. Probably. It's a lot having your own business.

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, they didn't admit that they were burned out, but I think to grow a business, it's not always productive to know how you feel. Because if you actually become aware of how you feel when you are starting a business and you start to get drained and you start to get burned out. Capitalism is built on maximizing human capital for profit. And we were a part of that cycle, which is we had to shut down parts of ourselves in order to make the brand work.

[Interviewer]

And it was difficult, right? It was a difficult ride. You were, like, holding things together for many years.

[Carrie Doherty]

Couldn't pay bills. I was illegally Airbnb our apartment so we could afford rent. It was financially stressful. It was honestly financially stressful up until just a couple years ago. I feel like we can only finally breathe now. And Faraday Brand has been around for 13 years, and all the while, you're

[Interviewer]

holding that as a secret because to the outside world, you're like a carefree surf brand.

[Carrie Doherty]

There was a part of us that was carefree and having a great time, and then there was also a part of me that was completely breaking down.

[Interviewer]

You tell the story, because I think one of the interesting things about your journey is that you got to a point, the journaling comes in and the secret unpacking comes in multiple times in your story. But there was a point at which you could have ended this relationship and you didn't. And so I think that's worth talking about because there's probably a lesson in that many would have expected in that moment that you would no longer be married at this point.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes. And I think there were times for both of us when we had to ask ourselves, do we still want to be in this relationship? I will say it's fascinating to see the different seasons that a marriage can endure. What does that mean? I think I was always, and I still am, of the belief that if things really aren't working, it's okay to move on. I'm a lawyer, and lawyers should never sign a contract that lasts forever. It's just unconscionable. And that is what marriage is. And at some point, Alex and I started to joke maybe this marriage would be a year to year contract. And we said it jokingly. But I think that joke planted a seed within us that we are not stuck. We always can choose.

[Interviewer]

That didn't feel destabilizing.

[Carrie Doherty]

I don't know if it was destabilizing as much as a reality.

[Interviewer]

Do you want to talk about that moment where you go to Coachella and actually almost end up in a different place in your life?

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes, yes, yes. I'm happy to talk about that.

[Interviewer]

All right, over to you.

[Carrie Doherty]

There was a period in our time, in our marriage when I was started to create a whole other fantasy world. And a lot of it was really just in my head. And I share this in the book about forming this ambiguous relationship with an artist who was so attuned with his feelings, who, day in, day out, took his feelings and alchemized it into art.

[Interviewer]

So not like your husband.

[Carrie Doherty]

So not like my husband. And I fell so in love with that part of that person. And what I really realize is that was a part of myself that was so yearning to come forward. I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to be the one that took my journal entries and could create beautiful pieces of work that I could share with the world.

[Interviewer]

But in the moment your husband discovers

[Carrie Doherty]

that I'm having deep. That I'm having deep feelings for another man.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. It's not just theoretical. Like this actually happened.

[Carrie Doherty]

Exactly. And there were definitely lines that were crossed.

[Interviewer]

So how did he find out?

[Carrie Doherty]

My husband knew of the friendship. But in 2020, I joined a writing collective Brooklyn Writers Collective. And I was given a prompt. Carrie, write a letter that you'll never send. And I wrote a letter to the character Beau, who's in the book, on his wedding day. And I really highlighted my feelings for him. I chronicled the years of our friendship, some of which definitely crossed a line. Not necessarily a physical line, but an emotional one. And I read it in my writing collective. There was a woman in the class who afterwards said, I need to tell you. I was very triggered by that piece. The woman said, my husband had a relationship like this, and it was so painful for me. Can we go out to dinner and talk about it? So me and this woman go out to dinner, and as we're talking about it, my phone buzzes, and I look down, and I look at the text, and it's from Alex. And he said, hi, I read your letter to Beau.

[Interviewer]

How did that feel?

[Carrie Doherty]

It felt both terrifying and also profoundly relieving, because I am not someone who wants secrets.

[Interviewer]

So what'd you say to that woman?

[Carrie Doherty]

I said, you're not gonna believe this. And she was like, good luck.

[Interviewer]

She was like, okay, you go.

[Carrie Doherty]

Bless. Good luck. And then I text my writing teacher, and I said, alex read the letter, and she said, congratulations. No more secrets.

[Interviewer]

So you get in the Uber?

[Carrie Doherty]

I get in the Uber.

[Interviewer]

Are you in a panic?

[Carrie Doherty]

I am in a. I feel like I'm in the eye of the storm, where you know that there is a storm brewing, but there is, like, a strange, profound calm.

[Interviewer]

So what awaited when you got in the door?

[Carrie Doherty]

I walked in. The apartment was a mess. My kids were, like, playing with permanent markers drawing on the wall on our Brooklyn floors. And Alex is standing there and is so upset. And I remember looking him in the eye, and I could see so much pain in his eye. And the first thing I thought was, oh, my God, you're still in there. And I think it really.

[Interviewer]

What does that mean? You're still in there?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think we had been such business partners for so many years that we had forgotten, like, the spiritual and deep, soulful connection we had. And I had forgotten that I could bring him pain and that he could

[Interviewer]

bring me pain, because really, you just spend all your time being like, what's happening with the orders?

[Carrie Doherty]

Yeah. What are HR issues we have to work through? We had become business partners, and seeing the pain that I caused him was a reminder of, like, oh, my gosh, where do we go from here?

[Interviewer]

And so what's the next step in that?

[Carrie Doherty]

We hug, and we both start crying. And then the next day I wake up and there is a letter.

[Interviewer]

Alex, how did you even go to sleep that night? I would have been up all night.

[Carrie Doherty]

No, I mean, it was probably like two in the morning. But in the morning, Alex gets up and goes to work. And I look over and there is a letter next to where he.

[Interviewer]

Because you got to go to work. Because it's your business.

[Carrie Doherty]

Because we got to go to work.

[Interviewer]

There's no calling in sick.

[Carrie Doherty]

And he writes a letter to himself. From my point of view, which was

[Interviewer]

so unusual, when I read that, I was like, what made him think to do that?

[Carrie Doherty]

I always joke and I say this in the book, that for so many years, I couldn't tell if Alex was repressed or the Buddha. And he wrote this letter, like, essentially saying, I understood why you did what you did.

[Interviewer]

It was an impact letter. Yeah. Have you ever heard of those?

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's an impact letter of the impact it had. But it's actually, instead of him writing it to you, he wrote it through your voice. It's so empathetic.

[Carrie Doherty]

It is so empathetic. And so then I did the same. And then, you know, I show up at work, and we share an office, but there's a plexiglass between our two offices. So one room, Plexiglass. I can see him in so much pain, having to still show up and plan email blasts and look at inventory forecasting, and I'm on PR calls, and we can see each other through the plexiglass. And we just know that both of us are hurting.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you know, so many of us go through messy parts and have moments, particularly at work. Right. Like where you show up and you have to pretend like everything's fine.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You're describing that because there are no boundaries. Because you're together 24 7.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And so you're watching him through the plexiglass, knowing he's in pain. Like, when do other people become witnesses to your pain?

[Carrie Doherty]

I often say that running a business is not dissimilar to running a household. And that much like kids can sense dynamics, team members can probably sense dynamic. Some of our team members are going to read this book, and it is brutally honest.

[Interviewer]

You didn't share early copies?

[Carrie Doherty]

No, no. I mean, legally advised. Do not share copies to your team members. I mean, there's just. This book is brutally honest. It talks about our sex life. It talks about my body, it talks about vaginal maintenance. And also what I share is, like, I am a complicated human, as we all are, and I'm not afraid to tell the truth of that messiness.

[Interviewer]

So you've come through the messy parts. I mean, there's still messy parts to be had. There's still messy parts to be had. What is the lesson you've learned coming through? What is a pretty big messy part?

[Carrie Doherty]

I have learned that the messiness is the beautiful part. And all of the messiness and all of the pain and all of the consequences that come from telling the truth. On the other flip side of that is intimacy.

[Interviewer]

There was a part of you, clearly, that always wanted to be an artist. The writing was a form of it.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You decide to go to writing a writing collective. Writing collective. And that begins to unlock something for you.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

But it's really a turning point for you because you also then write a children's book, and now you've written this book. Like, in a family where you grew up with secrets, you're now just letting it all hang out.

[Carrie Doherty]

I know. Bless my family. They are like, we did not sign up. We love you and support you. We did not sign up for this.

[Interviewer]

Have they taken a lesson from this from you?

[Carrie Doherty]

I think it depends who you ask.

[Interviewer]

Which family member.

[Carrie Doherty]

Which family member?

[Interviewer]

The ones we're still talking to.

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, I was convinced that this book would give my father a heart attack. My dad's 82. So kind, very private. I've always been the one he's never had to worry about. And now I'm like, this book is so honest. It has been so profoundly healing for me to see how my.

[Interviewer]

Have they read the book, your family?

[Carrie Doherty]

My mom has read the book multiple times. My mom's therapist has read the book. Like, oh, this book has been circulated, let me tell you.

[Interviewer]

But not your dad.

[Carrie Doherty]

My dad has been read a lot of sections of the book. He's also not a reader, but I think he's so proud of me in a way that it, like, makes me emotional. He's so proud of me of being my most authentic self, even though he would have not have chosen any of the decisions that I've done.

[Interviewer]

You also write about. There was a moment that I don't think you guys thought there was room for a child, which I think is interesting to talk about, because a business is like a child.

[Carrie Doherty]

Oh, yeah. And when I told Alex I wanted a kid, he said, you know, we do have a kid, and it's Verity Brand.

[Interviewer]

Well, how did that feel?

[Carrie Doherty]

I mean, he wasn't wrong. Feherty was a child, but Feherty didn't love me back. Like, I wanted a child. That Loved me back.

[Interviewer]

Did you know? But you knew he didn't want a child.

[Carrie Doherty]

I knew he wasn't ready for one. And then there's a scene in the book where he changes his mind and he says, you know, the act of having a kid right now is selfish, Carrie. And I need you to put that need on hold.

[Interviewer]

This word comes up a lot.

[Carrie Doherty]

It comes up a lot. Cue the title of the book.

[Interviewer]

I know, but it's so interesting because it's such a word with judgment, and

[Carrie Doherty]

it's definitely a word that is often used for women more. And don't. You know, I'm not. You're gonna be like, I'm not a sociological, like, student of all of this, but when men sacrifice everything to have a business, they're not seen as selfish. Even if their marriages are completely breaking down, they're not in the home at dinner. They're not called selfish. They're called ambitious.

[Interviewer]

They're called breadwinners.

[Carrie Doherty]

They're called breadwinners. They're ambitious, they're successful. But when a woman starts to do things based on her needs, needs that inconvenience other people, that word gets used.

[Interviewer]

So now with this hindsight, you're talking to somebody who's 35. What advice do you have for them?

[Carrie Doherty]

My advice for them is to become acutely aware of how things make you feel and lean into the things that make you feel alive. Not necessarily make you feel good short term, because a lot of things can make us feel good. The wellness industry is built on, like, feeling good. What makes you feel alive?

[Interviewer]

So we have some rapid fire questions. Okay, what would you say is your messiest moment from 1 to 10?

[Carrie Doherty]

That's such a good question. I mean, I just. I think I have messy moments most days. They usually regard parenting and trying to be both present with my kids while also wanting to scream.

[Interviewer]

When was the last time you cried?

[Carrie Doherty]

I cried three days ago.

[Interviewer]

What is a piece of advice you have for someone who's navigating a pivot?

[Carrie Doherty]

Keep leaning into the things that make you feel good.

[Interviewer]

So what's your title at work now? Now that you've negotiated your salary?

[Carrie Doherty]

Okay, so co Founder. And then for years it was Chief Impact Officer. Although right now with the book launch, it's more just an advisor of impact related activities.

[Interviewer]

What is the day in the life of a Chief Impact Officer?

[Carrie Doherty]

Officer, I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it's taking the ferry to work with my husband and then talking to the team about anything from HR issues, brand related marketing, things Sustainability. We're a certified B corp. Making sure we're doing things from a certification perspective, making sure our team feels supported.

[Interviewer]

You've never been laid off. It doesn't sound like. But you deal with a lot of HR issues right at work. What's advice you have for somebody who's looking to get a raise? Like, what's an advice you would give to your own child who's looking to get a raise at work?

[Carrie Doherty]

I'm a big, big advocate of people writing things down. Write down the salary you want with the number, the reasons you believe that you should get it, and then share that. From a place of neutrality, what does that mean? I think keeping things clear of, like, this is what I think I am worthy of and deserve. I think sometimes when we bring a lot of fear and anxiety into a conversation, that vibration is the loudest in the room. So if you can be present and have a little bit sense of a neutrality, of not knowing how something might go, but trusting that you're just going to state what you need, clearly, it's the most effective communication tool.

[Interviewer]

So just be a little neutral in that moment.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yeah. Be present in your body. Be present in your body.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's interesting because, you know, I'm in business with my husband. I've had different partnerships who've gone sideways.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

They tell you to think about the prenup or the exit when things go bad.

[Carrie Doherty]

Right.

[Interviewer]

You know, at the beginning, so that you're not at the end trying to negotiate things that really. Yes. And you are a lawyer. Right?

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct. I mean, a bad one. Clearly.

[Interviewer]

That's a lot of judgment. Oh, my God. You live in a world of judgment. This is so interesting. We're going to free you of that. Maybe the book will free you of that. Did it never occur to all of you at the time, like maybe having some definition or some guardrails?

[Carrie Doherty]

No, There were certain. There were certainly governing documents that were in play. But I think the things that we, you know, so much of a business growing. Growing quickly is a work in progress. Like, we didn't have a completely formalized board. I had never run a company before. I had never run hr. And so all of that I learned very quickly. But sometimes some of the systems we put into the company, what we did with each other, the three of us were like, we'll deal with those later.

[Interviewer]

Figure that.

[Carrie Doherty]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

I have one question for you, which is, you know, AI has impacted lots of different things. What are the things you worry about today that you didn't have to worry about before from a business perspective regarding

[Carrie Doherty]

AI or AI tariffs.

[Interviewer]

I mean, everybody I know who's in retail is in such a tailspin at the moment. Yes.

[Carrie Doherty]

I think talk about messy supply chain politics affects every part of our business all the time. Employment law, what health care our team can access, how people feel safe. Again, tariffs, where we're making something, environmental regulations. I mean, we are constantly dealing with politics in real time.

[Interviewer]

So as somebody who's a business owner. Right. A founder, what advice do you have for somebody who's interested in getting into retail today?

[Carrie Doherty]

Just love problems.

[Interviewer]

Because there's a lot of them.

[Carrie Doherty]

There's a lot of them.

[Interviewer]

And do you guys use a lot of AI now?

[Carrie Doherty]

Not yet. I mean, there's definitely like generative AI and then there's AI from like a background perspective, like integrating systems and how they talk about it. We're not doing generative AI, but we are like, huh. We have. We have inventory issues and trying to figure out what pieces of clothing should go to what store. Are there ways of connecting our stores to our inventory team that helps. Makes it so much easier. We're definitely looking for places we can solve problems that make it easier for our team. Doesn't mean we don't need those people on our teams, but it makes their jobs easier.

[Interviewer]

You're still going to need people. That's how it goes.

[Carrie Doherty]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Thank you so much. It was great to have you.

[Carrie Doherty]

Thank you for having me.

[Interviewer]

I'm excited for everyone to learn about being selfish.

[Carrie Doherty]

Thank you.