Podcast Summary: The Messy Parts
Episode: Judith Curr: Prince, Tarot Cards, Chat GPT and Changing the Plan
Host: Maryam Banikarim
Guest: Judith Curr
Date: August 11, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Judith Curr, President & Publisher of Harper One at HarperCollins. Renowned for her transformative impact on the publishing industry, Judith delves into her unconventional path from rural Australia to the pinnacle of U.S. publishing, the challenges of navigating a male-dominated industry, her persistent curiosity, and her willingness to embrace both spirituality and innovation—including tarot cards and AI tools—in her business planning. She shares “the messy parts” behind her extraordinary career, revealing the twists, setbacks, instincts, and bold pivots that have defined her journey.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Early Life, Entrepreneurial Spirit & the Australian Years
[01:50-06:16]
- Rural Roots: Judith grew up one of seven children on a farm in rural New South Wales, Australia, where creativity and earning her own money started young—picking peas, fruit, even selling scrap metal.
- “I always earned my own money, even though it was a tiny bit." – Judith Curr [02:20]
- First Jobs: After high school, she pursued a cadetship at Grace Brothers but shifted to selling cologne to pharmacies when she wanted a car.
- “I got a job as a traveling salesperson… It solves two things. I get another job and I get a car.” – Judith Curr [03:30]
- Lessons for Job Seekers: Emphasizes not waiting for the perfect job—embrace opportunities and zig-zag paths.
- “Don’t expect everything to be everything for you… If you’re always waiting for everything to solve all your problems at once... it’s going to take you a really long time.” – Judith Curr [05:30]
2. Moving Up and Leaning In
[06:16-09:42]
- Advancing in Publishing: Became marketing manager, then publisher, by volunteering for new roles.
- Fearless Volunteering: Judith attributes her success to “always looking for what’s around the corner,” aligning her talent for curiosity and newness with publishing’s changing demands.
- “If you aren’t looking forward to what’s around the corner, or if you aren’t looking around, then you can get stuck.” – Judith Curr [07:09]
- Self-Investment: Hired a coach at a time when it wasn’t common, investing in specific skill gaps to break out of career stagnation.
- “You were willing to invest in yourself… financially, right… That sense of being willing to invest in yourself is a really interesting good lesson early on.” – Maryam Banikarim [08:15]
3. The Big Move: Australia to New York
[09:07-10:25]
- Felt “tapped out” in Australia and recognized there was no more room for advancement; time for a leap.
- "I can't walk up these stairs anymore... This is not my beautiful life." – Judith Curr [09:08]
- Used a feeling of dissatisfaction as a sign to make a major change and move to New York.
4. Championing Diverse Voices in Publishing
[10:25-13:34]
- Spotting the White Space: Early to recognize and support Hispanic and other underrepresented voices.
- Publishing Authentically: Motivated by her own experience of limited representation growing up, Judith built imprints centered on stories from diverse communities.
- “When you start to find books where you identify as your culture in them, it’s really meaningful.” – Judith Curr [11:03]
- Innovative Team-Building: Expanded the Amistad imprint from 5 to 25 books a year, ensuring editorial and marketing staff reflect the communities they publish.
- On Market Pressure & Growth: Despite book bans and increased scrutiny, continues to “lean in” to diverse publishing because “that is the future.” – Judith Curr [13:09]
5. Navigating Setbacks, Innovation & the Messy Parts
[14:04-17:18]
- Facing Resistance: Not always welcomed as an innovator, handled being given lower roles during reorganizations by focusing on opportunities, not ego.
- “If I behave like it’s a setback, then everyone will know. But if I don’t… let’s see where the opportunity is.” – Judith Curr [16:34]
- Creating Opportunity Out of Setback: Turned a perceived demotion into the chance to found Atria Books, a major imprint.
- Support Systems: Stresses importance of a support network of women sharing challenges and advice: “We get to have these moments between us to say, oh, that sucks, but maybe you should try this.”
6. Standout Stories: Publishing Prince
[17:41-19:09]
- Meeting Prince: Shares the surreal experience of working with Prince, including listening to unreleased music while driving around Beverly Hills in Prince's car.
- “He wanted to play you some music... And then we drive around Beverly Hills at sunset playing me music he had dreamt the night before.” – Judith Curr [18:57]
- Realities of Rejection: Discusses the constant risk of investing in books that might not sell and enduring professional heartbreak, but focusing on the work and moving forward.
7. Innovation in Publishing: Nomad Editions
[21:36-25:22]
- Nomad Editions: Launches a portable, Japanese-inspired paperback format—born from seeing where young readers spend time in bookstores.
- “If I can’t get them to come out of the bookstore to buy my book, why don’t I just go into that corridor where manga and things are?” – Judith Curr [22:07]
- Brand Storytelling: Iterative branding process, balancing creativity and discipline, and seizing the “white space” between stagnant industry norms and emerging reader habits.
8. The Secret, Belief, & Spirituality
[25:24-27:45]
- Publishing ‘The Secret’: Judith reflects on bringing the bestseller to market and internalizing—perhaps always intuitively holding—its lessons of belief and manifestation.
- “Ask, believe, receive. So ask clearly what you want from the universe. Believe that you will get it and be willing to receive it.” – Judith Curr [25:35]
- Superpower: Identifies her superpower as a willingness to go first, to see what could work, and to bring others along even when they can't yet see her vision.
9. Tarot, AI, and Planning for Change
[27:45-30:49]
- Fusing Logic and Intuition: Judith uses tarot cards for annual business planning, interpreting the symbolism via ChatGPT and Perplexity AI for guidance.
- “I will pull a tarot card and ask for some direction… I took a photograph of those cards and put them into ChatGPT.” – Judith Curr [28:43]
- “Be open to the changes you know are coming through AI, etc. Make sure you trust yourself and your instincts… have a structure.” [29:10]
- Advice: Reminds listeners to value both intuition/spirituality and analytical tools—the very human elements in business.
10. Relationships & Community-Building
[30:56-33:19]
- Power of Relationships: Importance of relationships in publishing, networking across generations, and making space for others—modeled recently through a multi-year art project event for interns, students, and artists.
- “We. Everyone can model for other people what networking is about, and invite them in and not get caught up into generational differences.” – Judith Curr [33:07]
11. Defining Success and Power
[33:34-33:58]
- Judith’s Definitions:
- Success: “To be happy, to be kind and generous. To have good friendships and to have good partnership. And to be curious.”
- Power: “The bravest thing you can do is to own your own power and use it for the betterment of others.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “I can't walk up these stairs anymore... This is not my beautiful life.” – Judith Curr [09:08]
- “Don’t expect everything to be everything for you… If you’re always waiting for everything to solve all your problems at once... it’s going to take you a really long time.” – Judith Curr [05:30]
- “If you forget the idea, that wasn’t a really good idea.” – Judith Curr [24:28]
- “We all should operate together… Many people probably haven’t had that experience, but I had. So, I’ve always had that in the back when I’m thinking.” – Judith Curr [11:03]
- "You cared equally about her characters with or without their clothes." – Judith Curr, on publishing Zane [12:13]
- “Every book is somebody’s passion… there’s a lot of unrequited love around in publishing.” – Judith Curr [27:04]
- “Make a plan, write it down and then you can change the plan. But if you don’t have the plan, you’re changing nothing.” – Judith Curr [34:59]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Origin story & entrepreneurial childhood: [01:50-05:15]
- Leaning into new opportunities & skills: [06:16-09:07]
- Recognizing a need for change & moving to NYC: [09:07-10:25]
- Championing diverse voices & building imprints: [10:25-13:34]
- Navigating setbacks & creating Atria Books: [14:04-17:18]
- Working with Prince: [17:41-19:09]
- Innovating with Nomad Editions format: [21:36-25:22]
- Lessons from ‘The Secret’: [25:28-26:38]
- Tarot cards & AI for business planning: [28:43-30:49]
- Networking, mentoring, and building community: [30:56-33:19]
- Rapid fire and final advice: [34:00-35:12]
Rapid Fire and Final Lessons
[34:00-35:16]
- Walk-On Song: “Purple Rain”
- Potluck Dish: “Probably a salad”
- Alternative Career: Cosmetics or inventions
- Currently Reading: Is the River Alive? by Robert McFarlane
- Surprising Fact: Judith is sometimes shy
- Last Advice: “Make a plan, write it down, then change the plan.”
Tone & Takeaway
Judith Curr’s journey is both practical and spiritual, deeply honest yet persistently optimistic. She exemplifies resilience, humility, a love of risk, and the power of always looking for the “white space” others ignore. Her advice: don’t wait for perfect, always have a Plan B, lead with curiosity, nurture relationships, and don’t fear the mystical—or modern tools—to guide your future.