Katie Sturino on Building Megababe, Owning the Mess, and Dreaming Big (Re-Release)

Summary

The Messy Parts

Host: Maryam Banikarim
Episode: Katie Sturino on Building Megababe, Owning the Mess, and Dreaming Big (Re-Release)
Date: December 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this refreshingly honest episode of The Messy Parts, Maryam Banikarim sits down with entrepreneur, influencer, and now novelist Katie Sturino. The wide-ranging conversation explores the unpredictable journey of building brands—and a life—around authenticity, hustle, and the willingness to embrace all the “messy parts.” Katie shares her pivots from fashion PR to dog fame, from championing body positivity to founding Megababe. The two discuss the realities behind social media personas, entrepreneurship, writing, and the constant work of helping women feel good in their skin, all while being candid about fears, failures, and the drive that propels them to dream big.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Success, Motivation, and the Role of Revenge

• Notable Quote:
  “Success is the ultimate revenge… I do everything for my enemies.”
  — Katie Sturino (00:00)

• Katie jokingly but honestly admits that proving others wrong is a motivator, reframing pettiness as fuel for achievement, and sparking laughter as Maryam calls this “petty and magnanimous at the same time.”

2. Living Authentically as an Introvert

• Katie is naturally an introvert despite her public persona. She explains pushing past anxiety to show up, especially in work contexts, while actively avoiding casual social engagements.
  “I dread them [work dinners]… but I always go. And it’s good that I went” (02:29)

• The conversation normalizes fear and acknowledges that drive and hustle often coexist with self-doubt.

3. Early Career: Breaking into Fashion with Relentlessness

• Katie describes her journey from Milwaukee to the New York fashion scene, including her tenacity in landing an internship at Chanel by persistently following up and embracing embarrassment:
  “I did not take no for an answer… I kept following up with them, like twice a week…” (05:52)
• Maryam and Katie reflect on generational differences in ambition, and the underappreciated value of being willing to look “needy” or “uncool” in pursuit of opportunities.

4. Embracing the Mess in Work & Entrepreneurship

• Katie was unintentionally let go from Dolce & Gabbana, learned tough fashion lessons (“I could not wear Uggs and Juicy miniskirts to Dolce and Gabbana for work” (07:26)), and found that agency work gave her business skills but not the people culture she craved.
• She started her own PR agency (“because I wanted to be able to go get a cappuccino at three in the afternoon and not have to tell anyone” (09:09)), later selling her business name to Tinder, the dating app (“No, it’s probably not gonna last. No one’s gonna hear about it.” (09:35))

5. From Canine Fame to Personal Branding

• Katie’s rescue dog Toast became Instagram-famous, landing TV appearances and a book deal (“She wore, like, a $75,000 diamond necklace, and she had a Marchesa custom dress…” (11:23)), due to Katie’s PR hustle.
• As Toast’s fame grew, Katie recognized the opportunity to pivot: “You recognize the opportunity when it shows up” (12:28)

6. Entering the Body Positivity Arena

• A pivotal 2014 Man Repeller profile on Katie was formative:
  “I’ve never seen my body on a fashion blog… that was a big sign for me.” (17:48)
• Despite discomfort, she leaned in because of the massive positive response from women seeing themselves represented.

7. Dreaming Big and Trusting Your Gut

• Katie admits she’s not “grounded in reality at all” (14:43) when it comes to dreams, and encourages listeners to acknowledge ambition without limitation.
• Her current big dream: Adapt her novel into a TV show with a fresh lead, “…a breakout star. Because we need more body diversity in Hollywood.” (15:19)

8. The Birth and Growth of Megababe

• Katie reframes body acceptance as her real mission: “I realized after about a year … that women’s body image is so fucked up and that every woman of every size doesn’t like her body…” (20:07)
• She created Megababe to fill the gap where women’s needs (like “thigh chafe”) were overlooked with products that were “embarrassing” or “targeted at men.”
• Despite skepticism and manufacturers dismissing her idea (“…if we didn’t put an anti-cellulite product in the stick, women wouldn’t buy it” (24:12)), Megababe launched in her parents’ garage and quickly sold out after being featured on the Today Show.

9. Navigating Family and Friend Dynamics in Business

• Katie works daily with her sister and best friend as business partners:
  “The messiest thing you can do, I think, is work with your family. And also amazing.” (26:59)
• She is honest about the challenges (“I can fight with her and call her a fucking idiot… two seconds later…” (27:28)), the necessity of boundaries, and the difficulty of maintaining friendships when you work together.

10. Tackling Book Publishing & Expanding the Brand

• Katie’s first novel, ‘Sunny Side Up,’ stems from her own post-divorce experience and is not a “revenge” book but an “inspirational, funny rom-com.”
• She brings the story to life with a real-world swimsuit line mirroring the book, launching simultaneously (31:49).

11. On Ozempic, Body Trends, and Public Conversation

• Katie takes a nuanced view of Ozempic (“…made for people who need it, who have numbers that they need adjusting…” (34:01)) but laments the way it’s become a shorthand for thinness and a setback in the body positivity movement.

12. A Viral Moment with Oprah

• After calling out Weight Watchers’ CEO for nearly apologizing for their past messaging (“She said…we are sorry. That was fucked up.” (36:45)), Katie ended up on an Oprah special, a “better than I thought in every single way” experience (37:17).

13. Defining Purpose, Finding the “Why”

• “I do now… It’s to help women. Yeah, I just want to help women feel good about themselves.” (37:47)
• Katie wants to destigmatize normal experiences, from thigh chafing to hemorrhoids, so women stop feeling ashamed or alone.

14. Embracing the Mess of Entrepreneurship

• Katie rejects sanitized founder stories:
  “I want those moments [when you’re rejected or a manufacturer screws up], because that’s what every day is.” (39:06)
• She stresses that there’s never a finish line—new milestones just bring “bigger issues.” Megababe is self-funded and still fighting for shelf space eight years in.

15. Advice & Rapid Fire

• Big Life Advice:
  “Just do it. I see people…a year later, two years, three years, four years, and they still haven’t done it.” (44:19)
• “Don’t limit yourself…You think that people get to where they are because of some special skill you don’t have…and then you realize that everyone’s just a person…” (44:38)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On the Role of Revenge in Success
  “I do everything for my enemies.” —Katie Sturino (00:11)

• Living Out Loud as an Introvert
  “I try to cancel every single thing that I do, but I feel like I always go…” —Katie Sturino (02:29)

• Landing Chanel Internship
  “I did not take no for an answer…” —Katie Sturino (05:52)

• On Being Willing to Be Embarrassing
  “Most people are not willing to be embarrassing.” —Katie Sturino (06:40)

• On Entrepreneurship
  “I wanted to be able to go get a cappuccino… and not have to tell anyone.” —Katie Sturino (09:09)

• Recognizing Opportunity
  “You recognize the opportunity when it shows up.” —Maryam Banikarim (12:28)
  “Be ready when the luck comes.” —Katie Sturino, quoting Ina Garten (12:41)

• Dreaming Big
  “I don’t have small dreams. I have big dreams.” —Katie Sturino (14:17)

• Trusting Your Gut
  “I always trust my gut, even though people are always telling me I’m wrong.” —Katie Sturino (12:57)

• On Defining Purpose
  “It’s to help women. Yeah, I just want to help women feel good about themselves.” —Katie Sturino (37:47)

• Entrepreneurial Messes
  “This whole business is a mess…If people led more with the hard stuff, you’d have a lot more…forgiveness or empathy for yourself along the journey.” —Katie Sturino (41:34)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [00:00–01:32] — Motivation, Success as Revenge
• [01:32–03:25] — Introversion and Social Anxiety in Outward Success
• [03:33–08:29] — Breaking into Fashion: Persistent Hustle, Being Willing to Look Uncool
• [08:29–11:57] — Entrepreneurship & PR: Agency Life, Selling “Tinder” Name
• [11:57–14:39] — Dog Fame, Recognizing and Grabbing Opportunities
• [15:10–16:24] — Dreaming Big—Turning Novel Into TV Show
• [20:07–21:28] — The Start of Body Acceptance Work, Realizing the Universal Nature of Body Doubt
• [23:00–25:31] — Launching Megababe: Making Unmentionable Products Mainstream
• [26:51–28:16] — Working with Family and Friends: Messy But Rewarding
• [29:17–32:22] — Writing & Releasing a Novel, Launching a Swimsuit Line Inspired by the Book
• [33:36–36:48] — Oprah, Weight Watchers, and Public Apologies
• [39:06–41:34] — Realities of Entrepreneurship: The Mess is the Journey
• [44:19–45:09] — Final Advice: “Just do it. Dream big. Don’t limit yourself.”

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Final Takeaways

• Permission to Be Messy: Both host and guest embrace all the complicated, not-ready-for-Instagram parts of their lives and businesses, agreeing these are where the true growth—and stories—come from.
• Action Over Perfection: Katie encourages listeners to act despite fear and self-doubt, reinforcing that big dreams are achieved not by having unique talent, but by “just doing it.”
• Supporting Women: The ultimate “why” for Katie is helping women feel seen, heard, and supported—whether it’s through body image advocacy, innovative products, or honest storytelling.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

If you want an unvarnished look at the entrepreneurial road—where tenacity, humility, embarrassment, and joy mix with hustle—and love a guest who is bold enough to “dream big” on air, this episode will resonate. Katie Sturino’s journey is proof that the “messiest parts” are not obstacles, but the most powerful and connective parts of any story.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

It is.

[B]

No. Success is the ultimate revenge. What do you think this book is for? What do you think all my taxi ads are out there are for? You know what I mean? It's for my enemy.

[A]

It is still revenge.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's all for my enemies.

[A]

It's amazing because it is a motivating thing.

[B]

It's so. I know. Revenge is so motivating, and people underestimate it, and they're like, it's toxic. It's bad. And I'm like, I do everything for my enemies. Like, oh, my God, this could be.

[A]

The insight I know.

[B]

Maybe. Maybe it is. You know what I mean? It's just. You're petty as hell, and you just.

[A]

Gotta, like, I can be petty and magnanimous at the same time. So we just had Katie Storino on the podcast, and I gotta tell you, this is gonna be a good one. Katie is an influencer, an entrepreneur, and hello, a novelist. This book is coming out in June. The thing that really is startling about her story is that she's clearly letting it all hang. That is part of her brand. Vulnerable, authentic. But she's an introvert. And she has fear and anxiety, as do many of us, but she's able to push past that and just go for it. And in those moments, the other thing that struck me is that she sort of recognizes luck and opportunity and trust her gut and goes with pivots that may not have been planned. And that is like Ina garden she told me. Which is kind of an interesting tidbit because, like me, she doesn't actually like to cook. So you're going to want to tune in, because, Katie, it's a really good one. Okay, so, Katie, you're gonna be the first one to go on the show. And I'm so excited that you're here.

[B]

I'm so happy to be here.

[A]

You know what I've discovered about you? I mean, I know you as a neighbor and a friend, but now I'm like, deep into the Google universe and, you know, watching all your various videos, you let all the messy parts hang.

[B]

I do. I let the messy parts hang because I think that that's where you learn the most.

[A]

Here you are, incredibly successful. I would say an introvert. Are you an introvert?

[B]

I am an introvert. And you know that only because we're neighbo.

[A]

Okay, but yet you kind of are living your life out loud on social, and you're an incredibly successful entrepreneur on top of it. Right? I think that would surprise people about you.

[B]

I guess. I Feel like a lot. I feel like a lot of people are introverts that put themselves in these roles, and maybe it's their way of being able to be social is, like, doing the things that they're more comfortable with. And I'm not sure. I don't know why I'm like this.

[A]

You leaning into your fear, right?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know either.

[A]

Oh, this is gonna be like therapy for the two of us.

[B]

Yeah. No, I agree that I don't have the answer, but, like, when I have to go to work dinners, I really dread them. You ask mk. I try to cancel every single thing that I do, but I feel like I always go. And it's good that I went. And as long as it's framed in a work context, I have an easier.

[A]

Time doing things if it's framed in.

[B]

A personal context, social context, it's harder.

[A]

Harder for you. But, like, work, you're like, no, I have to go.

[B]

Yeah, I have to go. Yes.

[A]

So what is the drive to work for you?

[B]

I don't know where my drive comes from. Oh, this is therapy. I don't know where my drive comes from. Is it. Is it undiagnosed adhd? That's my new theory about myself. It's just a bottomless hole of, like, accomplishment that you just can't ever get to. Maybe. I think so.

[A]

I thought that was, like, me not being able to sit still and, like, getting in all my works, and I needed to sit still.

[B]

No, no, no. Yeah, you're the girl who didn't sit still. I didn't sit still either, and we're not sitting still now, and I think that that. That might be it.

[A]

The thing that's interesting about you is that you're definitely younger than me. I don't even know how much younger than me, but you're definitely younger than me.

[B]

I'm 44.

[A]

Okay. I'm sorry, for the record, because, you know, we're messy, and we let it all hang. So, first of all, like, you're known for body positivity, by the way, in the era of Ozempic, which we're going to have to talk about, because I find it all very confusing. But you basically moved here from Milwaukee.

[B]

And we're going back.

[A]

Well, I mean, I read that you wanted a job in fashion.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I mean, talk about a brutal industry in terms of body positivity, but you were like, no, I'm gonna go there. And then you just kept calling and convinced Chanel to hire you. Like, I Just wanna know, like, walk us through that.

[B]

Oh, I. Yeah. So I grew up in Milwaukee and I went to University of Wisconsin, Madison, which is just. Madison for people who. Yeah. And I did. I wanted to study fashion. I wanted to come to New York. I had that big fan.

[A]

What passion.

[B]

I don't know. I was drawn to it. Why was I drawn to it? I was the girl who had, like, the, like, Gucci Runway models taped up all over her bedroom. And I just loved fashion and I. And I wanted to be a plus size model. I knew I couldn't be a straight size model. I made my mom.

[A]

But didn't you watch Devil Wears Prada and think to yourself, like, that's maybe not going to be so.

[B]

For me, I think that. I think that a part of me, and I've talked about this a lot in therapy or here and here. Both places that I think I just wanted to prove that I could do something that maybe didn't want me. Are we realizing this right now?

[A]

Okay, you know what?

[B]

That's why I live in poverty.

[A]

I think that this will have paid for itself, like, in some way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so you were like, no, I'm gonna prove them wrong.

[B]

Yeah, I wanted to prove them wrong because I think that I wanted to have the style and the lifestyle. And then when I was there, a.

[A]

Show that influenced you, like hbo.

[B]

I didn't even watch Sex and the City because we didn't have HBO. I'm old. As I said, I'm 44. So I'm saying, like, I'm. But my timeline doesn't line up with the true, like, millennial timeline because I'm an elder millennial. Right on the cusp.

[A]

Okay, so you did not watch Sex in the city or Ally McBeal.

[B]

That's what I mean. And I didn't watch Ally McBeal. I think. What did I. Why Seinfeld? Is that what brought me here? I'm really unclear.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I watched Sex in the City in college, though.

[A]

So you convince Chanel to hire you. And I. What I read in that story is, I mean, you know, I was up at 2 in the morning Googling you. Is that you were relentless.

[B]

Y. That you didn't take no for an answer. I did not take no for an answer. And I flew to New York for an intern in an intern interview, which I'm not sure anyone has ever flown anywhere.

[A]

You got the. You had an interview.

[B]

I had an interview because I kept following up with them, like twice a week. I'd be like, can you imagine an Intern. A random intern emailing twice a week, being like, can I, Can I come in?

[A]

Because I tell my daughter, like, you have to let people know you really want the job. And yet I find her generation, or maybe just people in general, they're so worried about how people are going to view them that they actually don't go for the thing that they need to.

[B]

Go for that existed at that time. Also, I just think that certain people don't care. You don't care about making yourself look needy or desperate or whatever the things are. That's what that was about. Cause I wanted that job.

[A]

So you were willing to be embarrassing to get the job.

[B]

And I'm still willing to be embarrassing about everything, I think. And that's the difference, is that most people are not willing to be embarrassing.

[A]

My husband said to me the other day, I think you have, like, a lack of self awareness, which I think is what that might be.

[B]

But I think I have the same. I think I have the same. Thing is, I think we actually are self aware. We just don't care.

[A]

Yeah, I'm able to put it aside.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, good thing I wasn't too concerned about being cool, because I so was not. You should have seen me in bowling. I was a really terrible bowler. Okay, so you get the job at Chanel, then you're at Dolce and Gabbana, and somehow you decide. I read this story where you sort of found out that you were being let go inadvertently.

[B]

I got the marketing director called my desk and said, I think we can get rid of Katie. I'm not sure we have much use for her anymore. And I was like, oh, hi.

[A]

You're like, this is Katie.

[B]

Yeah, you're actually letting me know. And then she was like, I'm so sorry. I meant to call the other Katie and so many Katies in the 80s, but yes. So I got let go. Not in a bad way there, but that was funny. And Dolce and Gabbana, the president of Dolce had to tell the head of PR to talk to me and tell me that I could not wear Uggs and Juicy miniskirts to Dolce and Gabbana for work. And that was like a big fashion lesson for me because I thought I was coming in at the height of, like, Y2K fashion, which I was. But not at Dolce and Cabana.

[A]

Yeah, Dolce level.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Okay, so then what made you decide not to take another job, but to start your own thing?

[B]

I took another job at a small PR agency. And that was just like the next job I got, and it was interesting to learn how an agency worked. But again, I found that the people were really hard. The business was great. I really liked that part of it. Telling people stories, getting people attention on their businesses. I did not like the people aspect.

[A]

How did you pivot to your own thing?

[B]

I started working with Bobbi Brown, the makeup artist. Her brother in law knew me from something and I got hired there to do like freelance stuff. And then while I was there, I had time to say, you know what? I really like doing pr. I don't want to work with any of these people. I would like to start my own thing. Let me see if I can get some clients. So while I was working at Bobby, I started pitching. Like, I would, like, go to trade shows, I would like, look online. I'd be like, what?

[A]

Who?

[B]

I'd go into stores and be like, what are these designers? And just start cold calling people. And so I built a client roster, left Bobby Brown, and then started my own thing.

[A]

What made you, like, are your parents entrepreneurs?

[B]

My dad's an entrepreneur.

[A]

Because there has to be something that made you say.

[B]

You know what? The thing that made me say it is that I wanted to be able to go get. This is what I always used to say. I wanted to be able to go get a cappuccino at three in the afternoon and not have to tell anyone.

[A]

As opposed to get it for somebody else.

[B]

We'll get it for someone, right? Or like, have to like clock in and out. And I just wanted to be in charge of my own schedule. Working for yourself doesn't mean that you work less, you work more, you work more. Yeah, but I wanted to be in control of my own schedule.

[A]

Okay, so you start this agency. It's called Tinder.

[B]

It was before the dating, it was called caspr. And then I was just my initials. And then I changed it to Tinder. I got my logo done, I got everything done. And about a year later, my assistant at the time was like, there's a new dating app called Tinder. Like, have you seen it? And I was like, no, it's probably not gonna last. No one's gonna hear about it. And then a year or so later, I ended up selling my business name to Tinder, the dating app.

[A]

Did you get a lot of money for that?

[B]

No, I got some money. I know I got some money. They, like, didn't really even care about buying it, but I feel like they.

[A]

Were like, at least you got something.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Okay, so then what happens?

[B]

And by the way they knew about me because I was getting emails from people who couldn't find matches on Tinder, who were like, please help me. Like, I'm trying. Like, I just want someone to, like, be friends with, like, all the things.

[A]

They should have really paid you. But, okay, so then what happens?

[B]

So then I continue to do pr, but I. I had rescued two dogs at the time. I'm living.

[A]

Did you grow up with lots of animals?

[B]

No, I didn't grow up with any. This is why I'm an animal hoarder, because I wasn't allowed to have a dog. So I had gotten my second rescue. King Charles Spaniel. Her name was Toast. My first one was Muppet, and she was a very special dog. And I knew that. I could tell, like, that she just had a special personality. Her tongue was out. She would let me dress her up, pose her, do anything. And I was like, I'm gonna make my dog famous. Because it was right in the beginning of Dog. I know your face right in the beginning.

[A]

I tried to find a picture of her dressed for the Met G. Oh.

[B]

She never went to the Met Gala.

[A]

But she sort of dressed, like, for an event.

[B]

Well, she got married on Real Housewives at the High. She had a wedding at the Highland Hotel on Bravo.

[A]

Yeah, nice.

[B]

She had a wedding at the Highland Hotel, like, in the big room.

[A]

I might need to find pictures of them.

[B]

Oh, it was beautiful. She Wore, like, a $75,000 diamond necklace, and she had a Marchesa custom dress. She was Martha Stewart Wedding, like, planned the whole thing because of Darcy Miller. She was our fairy godmother. Anyway, so we had. We had that big wedding with Toast. But before that, I saw that dogs were becoming popular on, like, Instagram in a way that was different. It was more like a business. And I was like, I'm going to apply my PR skills and make my dog famous. So I started, like, pitching her out, bringing her into, like, brand offices.

[A]

And this is why you were running your business. So you're, like, trying to work and then also being like, I'm going to make my dog famous.

[B]

Yes, yes. And then when that started to get lopsided and I started get way too much Toast work, I started to cut back my PR business and then ultimately ended it.

[A]

Okay, so this is an interesting thing about you, because I also would say, as I sort of read through your background, that, like, opportunities show up, but you recognize the opportunity when it shows up.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

It's like these two things converge. Toast takes off and you don't say, oh, you know what? I should somehow flip this and go become Anna Wintour. Like, you know, you're not set on some way.

[B]

No.

[A]

You see that opportunity? You're like, wait, this is a sign.

[B]

Yes. Yes. That's what Ina Garten said in her book. She said, be ready when the luck comes. Cause I don't know, that's. Yeah, it all lines up. It has to be luck. And yes, I recognize an opportunity because you can feel if something is working and you can feel and like, you know, when you're done and you know.

[A]

To trust your gut.

[B]

Yes, I always trust my gut, even though people are always telling me I'm wrong.

[A]

It's so interesting. Cause I was recounting the story that I read about you. And I was remembering that in college, people used to say to me, you should go into pr. Because I would throw parties at nightclubs. And never for money, of course, because I wasn't focused on that. I'm not sure why. And people would be like, you should go into pr. And I'd be like, what do you mean? Are you saying, like, I'm a dumb party girl? Like, I didn't understand, like, that that was a sign?

[B]

Well, PR gets a really bad rap. I just wanna say this for all the publicists out there. You get a really bad rap as being kind of like a, you know, a dumb girl, PR girl. It's like a very misogyn point of view. But publicists make the world go round.

[A]

By the way, I now say to people all the time that I think that is the best job. And so that's kind of an interesting point you make. Because I would say to you that I have met many PR people who've ascended the ranks because of the proximity that being in PR affords you, right? So they worked for Jack Welch, or they worked for somebody really senior. And so that relationship allows them lots of visibility, but also the relationship. Right. And I would tell a lot of people now that they should really have gone into corporate communications or publicity or pr. But it was. My point was more. Less about that. That's not a good job. But my own lack of imagination at having seen that as a sign. Yeah, but you did see it as a sign. You were like, toast. I'm leaning.

[B]

I was like, we're gonna do this. There were like three famous dogs at the time. And I was like, we're going. We're going for it. And I'm crazy like that. Like, I don't have small dreams. I have big dreams. So I'm like, we're gonna do it big. We're gonna get her on the morning shows. We're gonna. She wrote a book. Yeah. Like she wrote a book. She did, yeah. HarperCollins. Real publisher, not self published. And.

[A]

So what makes you dream big?

[B]

It's just how my brain works. Is that like, what does that mean? I don't know. It's just, it's. It's a difference I find in my brain where someone says, I'm going to. I'm gonna do this. And maybe they, they have a lot more reality probably in their point of view or their dreams have more reality. They're grounded in reality. I'm not grounded in reality at all.

[A]

What's your dream now? What's your big dream now? Oh, we're breaking news right here.

[B]

I don't know. My big dream right now is to get my novel turned into a TV show. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Who's gonna play you?

[B]

No one. I don't know. It's probably going to be a new opportunity for a new person who needs to break into Hollywood. That's my dream, is to have recognizable cast around her, but then breakout star. Because we need more body diversity in Hollywood. And I feel like that's a really exciting role to get someone into.

[A]

Okay, so see, you're putting your big dream out there.

[B]

That's what I come in.

[A]

Like a vision boarding session.

[B]

But I. And you know what? I don't even have a vision board. And I don't. Right. But people are like, oh, no, I did have one. I keep thinking about it. Should we have that? Like, it feels like at the top of the year, everyone's like making a whole thing for what they want for the year. And I don't, I don't do that. Imagine how powerful we'd be if we did.

[A]

I also never had a plan. Yeah, I never had a three year plan or a five year plan. So vision boards. I'm like, wait, what?

[B]

Same. I don't have. I have, I have like a feeling. But people, people.

[A]

I have hustle.

[B]

Oh, and I have hustle too. But you have to have both because you can have a feeling, but if you don't have hustle, then.

[A]

No, I say you can vision from your bedroom, but that's not going to actually show up. Okay, so now Toast takes off and where do you come into the picture? Because all of a sudden then Toast moves to the side and you become the center.

[B]

Oh, yes. We were on a photo shoot for Nars Beauty brand. Yeah, for Toast. We were doing like, shots of, like, blush on her fur, like, super cute. And the editors who are working on it, I pitched myself because, you know, PR mindset. And I just. I was like, you know what? They should do a story on me.

[A]

Okay. I. I love this.

[B]

I think it's the fear of rejection, maybe that people think, what's the worst that's gonna happen? They're gonna say, no, I don't know. I'll ask anyone. Any, like, anything. I don't know.

[A]

That's why I'm a very good wingman or wing girl or whatever. Right. Cause you know what? I have no qualms. You wanna meet somebody? I'm your person. Let's go.

[B]

But people get scared of us when. Where they're wing people because we don't care. We're like, what's up? You think that guy's. I know. I know.

[A]

For myself, but for you, I really do anything. I'm like, who do we know who could make that movie Same.

[B]

That I'm the same way?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then.

[B]

So I yourself, I said, you should do a story on me. Because there's just no coverage of, like, curvy girls in fashion right now. I think the year was 2014. And they're like, okay, let's do a story on you. It's for Man Repeller. And. And I think the thing that happened there is my brain broke open when I saw the comments from women saying what they mean. No, they were the opposite. They were like, I've never seen my body on a fashion blog again. It's 2014, so it's like, oh, so.

[A]

Here'S your next sign.

[B]

Yes. They're just like, I love, like, opening up this page and being able to see myself. Like, wow, these shopping tips are so great. So I feel like that was a big sign for me.

[A]

Okay, so you. The opportunity shows up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the sense that you see the comments and they're positive. I'm like, this is why love representation matters.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so. Okay, so you pivot to thinking.

[B]

So I was like, I really was deeply uncomfortable with being in front of the camera. You know, I'm in pr and behind the scenes, I'm doing dog stuff. I can put everything on toast. And now it's time for me to get in front of the camera. And that was so.

[A]

But you pitched yourself.

[B]

I know, but I'm just.

[A]

I know it.

[B]

But, like, I mean, that first photo shoot, I was near tears, just, like, so embarrassed.

[A]

And yet you pitched yourself. I'm just pointing it out.

[B]

I put myself There. But I was so nervous.

[A]

And so it happens. There's amazing comments and what happens to you?

[B]

I had breakfast with the editor at Glamour, Sophia Chobbit at the time, and she said, I don't think you're going to be a publicist in a year. I think you're going to be doing this full time. And I was like, okay, let's see. I remember her saying that to me. And then as soon as I put it up online, the 12ish style. Because I had fluctu. Maybe a size 12, 14, 12ish already exist or. Nope. So I started the 12ish style. It was a blog. Yep. My other friend was like, just start an Instagram, start a blog. Just do it. So I just did it. And it. It took off because we needed someone in the space who was there to, like, help the big girls get dressed.

[A]

So representation matters. You dream big and you just go for it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In the face of fear.

[B]

Oh, yes. Yeah, I am scared. But, like, you just go, but so what?

[A]

How do you have the ability to put that fear aside?

[B]

I think I don't. I think fear is. Is less strong than regret. And I don't want to regret anything. I don't want to leave an opportunity on the table because I got nervous.

[A]

So even though you get anxious, you get nervous, you get fearful. You have a way and. But what is the way? Like, do you meditate? Do you go for a jog? Like, do you have a trick? Is there like a CBT trick?

[B]

No, I just go. I just do it.

[A]

You just go for it.

[B]

I just do it. Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Where does Megababe show up in this journey?

[B]

So I'm doing the body acceptance work, which wasn't. I didn't even start off doing body acceptance work. I just realized after about a year of talking to women of all sizes who are like, I'm so inspired that you wore a tank top. That women's body image is so fucked up and that every woman of every size doesn't like her body, and we need to do something about that. So that was my next phase, as I was like, I feel like the lights just got turned on. And I'm realizing that women have been tricked into focusing on their body size and their body shape and feeling that it's wrong no matter if you're thin or big or whatever. So I figured I needed to do something about that, and so that was my next phase of this.

[A]

Did you also feel a sense of responsibility? Cause what you unlocked now became bigger than you. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I wanted. I wanted to help women. So that became my. That became like, it shifted from, like, dog rescue helping small businesses, and now it's like, oh, we need help. Women need help. And I feel like I just realized that we're in like a huge con where you're supposed to stay small and feel bad about yourself, but that is only because that, that keeps you away from your power. So let me, let me work on that. So that's what I, I pivoted to. And then as I was doing that, something kept coming up and it was chafe. It was thigh chafe. And I talked to my followers.

[A]

What is that? Because some people may have no idea.

[B]

What you're talking about. I know all the thigh gaps out there may not understand.

[A]

Okay, well, you also are going to have to describe what a thigh gap is, because somebody could be listening who is not familiar with fashion terms.

[B]

You're correct. So in the year 2016, which is when I started talking about this to myself, there. There's a term called thigh gap where your thighs don't touch. And that's the goal. That's the goal is to have your body.

[A]

That's the goal.

[B]

That's the, like, the media goal is like, it's like how to get a shy gap by summer. Like that. So how to have your legs not touch, which we know that, like, your legs touch no matter what your size, if you have, like, certain shaped hips, whatever, it's a whole shape.

[A]

You're human. You're human.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Your thighs touch.

[B]

Okay, okay. Like. So I started every spring. I would get these messages from people who followed me being like, what do you use for thigh chafe? Do you use shorts underneath? Do you use a chafe stick? Like, what is it? And the only things in the market every year were from gross companies that worked with or that targeted runners or men. Really embarrassing names. Deez Nuts. Deez Nuts for her. What is that? I know. That's a terrible name. This is what's out there. Squirrel. Squirrel Nuts.

[A]

It's like how to make yourself feel worse.

[B]

Yes. It's how. Like, who wants to pull that out?

[A]

Nobody.

[B]

No. I just kept waiting for. For someone to make a chafe stick that we could be proud of. And no one was doing it. And then that was, I guess, my. We're discovering. That's my next sign. That's your thing? Yeah.

[A]

All these signs show up for you?

[B]

Yes. Well, because I'm like, if no one's going to do this, I guess I'm going to do this.

[A]

No that's not what most people think, but okay, that's definitely what Katie Storino thinks.

[B]

I guess that is how I think. And I.

[A]

And you're like, no fear. I'm just going to go do it. What am I going to do it?

[B]

And then my. My very cautious and very conservative. They're my sister and my best friend from camp, Kate. They're both very. They have a very different brain and. And mode than I.

[A]

But they're your partners.

[B]

They're my business partners. So I was like, let's do this. Neither of them had ever chafed. They were like, we don't know if you think this is a thing, like, let's go for it. You seem to have done okay with the dog thing.

[A]

They were willing to follow you. I like that.

[B]

And. And so we launched. We launched Thigh Rescue. I would say it took us probably like 7 months to get the product from like the lab to the lab to our website. And what was interesting is that when I started telling people about that we were going to launch a chafe stick, I started hearing a lot of no's. We met with manufacturers who said it wasn't going to be a big enough business for them to even make the minimum for us. We met with one guy who said if we didn't put an anti cellulite product in the stick, that women wouldn't buy it.

[A]

And they've all been proven wrong because I see the ads on every taxi that I take in New York City.

[B]

Yes, right.

[A]

And Target and Walmart.

[B]

Yes, Target, Walmart, all time.

[A]

This is not a small company. I just want to explain.

[B]

I mean, it is small compared to the. To the category. That's how I always say it. What category?

[A]

You created a category.

[B]

I mean, we created a category, but we sell in the deodorant aisle of Target where everyone else is like a billion dollar conglomerate. Like we're the only self funded.

[A]

Is that the sign that we're seeing now?

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

I just mean a billion dollar company. Okay. So I'm putting it out there because I mean we dream big.

[B]

I've been putting it out there since we launched my parents garage. I stood there literally like we pushed go on the website and I was like, is P and G at the door yet? Like I've just been waiting. But we launched, we had to make a minimum of I think 10,000 units of each product. That's not a small amount of product. Put it in my parents garage and we thought, is anyone going to buy this? I have no idea. We made a product called Bust Dust, which is a talc free powder that you can spray in your bra for boob sweat or in your unders, wherever you're sweating. Everyone was like, are we just gonna hold these for the next two years.

[A]

Until they're gonna hand them out at Halloween like we do here in Tulsa?

[B]

Exactly. And we had a segment on the Today show about three weeks after we launched, and we sold out of every product we made. We launched in June. We sold everything out by after July 4th weekend.

[A]

I mean, if this isn't an inspiring story of like, just go do shit, I don't know what it.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah. So I think what's interesting is that we have faced issues from everyone from retailers to media to customer. I mean, people who see our ads who don't understand what we make and think it's vulgar. We just made a new TV ad. And the reason I wanted to make the TV ad the way that I did, I wanted it to resemble the way that ShamWow or the pillow guy, those really annoying commercials. You see that stick in your head. I wanted to make one of those. So I made this, like such a PR person.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can't stop it.

[A]

It's just like how you're wired.

[B]

I understand. And I wanted to put something out there that people would really remember. And it's just me. And I call it throwing a leg up. It's me with my foot up on a wall or wherever, and I'm just applying my thigh rescue. Well, we're running it on E. We're running it on Bravo. We're running it on all these different networks. But we got a message from Hallmark that it did not meet their standards because it was not. Yes. Not family friendly. Which I don't. Which I really don't understand. What is not family friendly about stopping thigh chafe?

[A]

Let's talk about the fact that you work with your sister and best friend.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I have started working with my husband that probably likes starting in Covid. You know, working with your family and friends can be messy. Are you gonna give us a messy.

[B]

Part of that story? That's the messiest thing you can do, I think, is work with your family. And also amazing. And I think the difference is when you're working with. I don't know how it is to work with your spouse. Like, John and I work together. He does all my contract work and we have never had an issue. But working day in and day out with my sister, I can fight with her and call her a fucking Idiot. And hang up the phone. Which I don't ever hang up the phone. But, I mean, I can just call her names and then two seconds later, we're back on the phone. Be like, what are you doing? Okay.

[A]

But I mean, so it was deep.

[B]

Yes. But I'm saying, like, I think there's a freedom when you're working with family because you know that you can say what you really feel and you can move on now. You can't do that too much in front of employees. Like, as we've grown the team, I've had to scale back my, like, open conversations in front of people. I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable, you know? And then working with a friend is also hard because we spend so much time together during the week on work that you gotta put effort in to keep the social part of your friendship alive.

[A]

But that's true with, like, a partner too, I think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, I agree. You know, I have tried to hire a lot of friends over the years, and I've been declined a lot because.

[A]

I think, well, not everybody's. I know.

[B]

I think people don't. I think people are cautious.

[A]

We have no boundaries.

[B]

We have no boundaries.

[A]

But there's a lot of therapy to be unbounded.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

Okay, so you have a. I mean, it's the truth. Okay, we're gonna talk about the book that I have not had a chance to read. And you know that makes me really anxious. So thank you for not giving me the book earlier. I'm gonna hold that against you for a long time. You wrote this book that's coming out in June. I've noticed that you're giving a lot of things away to get people to buy books, because, by the way, writing a book is hard, but, oh, my God, getting people to buy, pre order a book, it's like a nightmare.

[B]

I think something. I'm gonna talk about my book, but I wanna talk about the book process and pop some bubbles out there. For anyone who's, like, has a fantasy of writing a novel and being right.

[A]

You only do tough things. I mean, I'm doing a tough thing. Let me just say, doing a podcast is really, really hard.

[B]

Doing a podcast is really hard. I did it for four years and it's really hard. It is really hard. Yes.

[A]

I don't know why everybody keeps thinking, like, you're just doing a zoom in your bedroom.

[B]

No, it's not. I know that. But that's how they feel about influencers as well. It's so much work But I always say in the back of my head, I could always be doing something else. Something worse.

[A]

Okay, we're coming back to your book.

[B]

Okay. Bring us back Sunny side Up. It's a book that I have wanted to write since I got divorced. It's the rom com that I wanted and I needed when I got divorced. It's about a woman who.

[A]

Oh, sorry. I read you said I wanted to write a revenge book, but I decided over time, I'm not writing a revenge book. I'm writing a rom com.

[B]

Did I say that?

[A]

Yeah, I found that somewhere online because I didn't make that up myself.

[B]

Okay. I don't know where I said it, but wow, that's true.

[A]

Here's the thing about the Internet. It all follows.

[B]

Yeah, no, I did. I think when I. Because I think when I first got divorced, I was like, one day I'm gonna write this. Like. Yeah.

[A]

Let's just be honest. I don't want to, like, make you feel like you're being on the spot. Because I'm gonna say, like, when people have done me wrong and I don't know the ins and outs of your situation, I also have those thoughts. We're all human, but we don't always act on them. It's like the letter you write and you burn.

[B]

That's exactly it. And this book is not the letter I wrote and published. This is. Or burned. I mean, I'm saying, like, didn't burn and just put it in a book. No, I ended up writing the story I needed, you know?

[A]

How long did it take you to have that separation, to be able to do that?

[B]

Nine years. It was a long time.

[A]

Yeah. But also, I actually think that having processed all that and gotten to a place where you can do this, you're gonna be able to impact a lot more people.

[B]

Oh, I couldn't have. I couldn't have, like, gone on a media tour with this book, like, two years ago, right after. Yeah, because you're so raw and you don't even know how raw you are.

[A]

I barely know how raw I was, like, yesterday. Okay.

[B]

The book is about a woman named Sunny Green, and she gets divorced at 35 and thinks her life is over. She ends up gaining a lot of weight, her body's change, and, you know, New York is a hard place not to be thin.

[A]

I would think it'd be worse in la. I don't know.

[B]

Actually, it's interesting. It's different in la, you can actually shop more. Plus in la, that's a whole thing. But this Is so for the book. So she decides that she's gonna throw herself into work, and she ends up launching a swimsuit line because she has a breakdown at Bergdorf's going on this vacation with her girlfriends. She can't find a swimsuit that fits her. And so she's.

[A]

Swimsuit shopping is kind of the worst, no matter what's going on.

[B]

So for everyone. That's what I'm saying. This is my whole point, is that it's awful for everyone. And so she ends up making a swimsuit line. And maybe she figures out how to start dating, and maybe she has two suitors. And it's a lot of fun. But what I did is I decided to bring the book to life, and I made the swimsuits from the book. I have a swim collab coming out this month. Oh, my God.

[A]

When is that launching?

[B]

It's launching. Of course it is in June, the same time as the book. And you can shop the suits from the book.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

I love it, too.

[A]

You're definitely a marketer at heart.

[B]

Yes. What I think is interesting about writing a book is that it's not just selling the book. You have to sell, like. How can I say this? It's not just selling the book to the publisher. You have to get people to buy the book in pre order. That's a huge sign of success. And it basically dictates whether or not people are gonna put effort into promoting the book. Yeah.

[A]

Cause the business is so broken. It's so hard.

[B]

So it's like you don't just write a book and then put it into the world like that doesn't exist. That I can see anymore.

[A]

Okay. And so give us a little preview. Like, why should we read the book? By the way, I did go on People magazine and there was an excerpt, so I did read a little bit.

[B]

Well, I think sunny is. I hate to use this word inspiring. Cause it feels cheesy, but it is. Sunny is inspiring. It's funny.

[A]

You had a Sex and the City comment about it.

[B]

Yes. Someone said it was like a Carrie Bradshaw for the next generation. And God did I meet Candace Bushnell at an event in Palm beach this year. And I.

[A]

Did you almost fall over?

[B]

I did. And I looked at her and I was like, oh. Someone said. I'm like. I could barely even choke out my own line if someone said, I'm a next generation. You. And she probably. She was just like, can you get out of here?

[A]

What's happening?

[B]

Yeah. No. She's like, please. Do you know how Many girls say this to me. A day like this is so. Anyway, so yes, I think it is funny. It's inspirational. It's an easy beach read and it's all about New York.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which we both love.

[B]

You're gonna really. You're gonna really love it because a lot of our boss.

[A]

I'm gonna be able to sleep again tonight. It's either cause I'm doom scrolling and finding little excerpts about you, or I'm gonna be reading your book now.

[B]

No, you're gonna like it.

[A]

We need to talk about Oprah.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And we need to talk about Ozempic. I mean, I just feel like we need to talk about that because we live through all this moment of body positivity. Everyone's accepting of everything. We're presentation. And then Ozempic comes and like literally all the body positivity people are like basically not hitting Ozempic because apparently being skinny is the thing. Again.

[B]

I think what's really interesting is that I view it in a very careful way of. This is a. I knew you'd be.

[A]

The person to diagnose.

[B]

I know it. There's. This is a medication that is made for people who need it, who have numbers that they need adjusting for the longevity of their health. Right.

[A]

That's what it was started for.

[B]

That's what it started for. Now the circus that has happened since then, that it's just like a shot for people who need to. Who feel they need to lose 10 pounds and just want to fit into a dress. That's where the toxic part comes in. And I think that is why it's been like demonized and it's so polarizing. I wish that that part wasn't part of it. I wish they were highlighting like the people's lives who have been saved because of the drug.

[A]

Yeah. Because I mean if you're diabetic and you need your numbers changed, it's a thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And by the way, I. I mean, far be it from me to judge even people who are doing it otherwise. But I did think it was interesting.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Cause you know, I think to myself, like, I'm so not perfect, so why am I gonna judge you?

[B]

But you're generous.

[A]

But it's the truth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you know, I mean really, we're all just harder on ourselves. Or at least I can say I can speak for myself.

[B]

I don't know. I think that there's a responsibility that some people have in the public eye to not perpetuate like a terrible time when everyone had to be like, heroin chic. And I think that we're losing that in a lot of the people are constantly photographed right now.

[A]

The famous people come to Oprah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you were on the Oprah Show. I mean, and you had a moment here about Candace Bushnell, whatever. Right. Like, but Oprah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I used to say, like, oprah might be kind of like, God, I don't know.

[B]

That's what I said. I said that to her because I'm.

[A]

Pretty sure it was like a.

[B]

She kind of is like, I'm just like, who else is there?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. So I. They were doing a special on all the GLP1 drugs, the Ozempic, and all the others drugs. And they had the CEO of Weight Watchers, a woman named Seema Sistani, she was on. And she got really close to apologizing for Weight Watchers stance on weight loss. Because the whole. The nut here is that they're calling it. They're saying that obesity is something that you have, like, in your brain, in your body, that your brain is different from the way that some people's brains work. Okay. And that felt like a big unlock to hear. And she was like, basically almost said, we're sorry for the decades of pushing willpower on people who couldn't, who didn't have willpower, and just saying, hey, you should just eat less, move more, and, like, you're gonna be fine. And I called that out. And then she saw my video, responded to me without checking with lawyer. I always think that this is so cool. She didn't check with lawyer. She's gotten the Internet and started talking. And that moment, that exchange we had where she said, katie, you know what? We are sorry. That was fucked up.

[A]

Oprah, I love that she was a leader for so genuinely.

[B]

That's what I mean. Men don't respond like that. Male CEOs don't respond like that.

[A]

Women don't either. Sometimes that's fine.

[B]

But I'm just saying, like, take away.

[A]

From her credit by just saying she was a woman, because the truth is, we know tons of people who would not.

[B]

Correct. You're right. Well, she's.

[A]

That's a sign of leadership.

[B]

No, she's a special leader and who's no longer with the company. And we.

[A]

That feels like a cliffhanger. Okay.

[B]

We organized this big special with Oprah, and I talked with her for eight minutes. I mean, Oprah, it's a long time.

[A]

It's a long time.

[B]

I know. And she said. She said. And they started they did this special because of this interaction. So it was a three hour thing. And she was like, you started it all. Like, say what you gotta say. It was. Meeting Oprah was better than I thought it was in every single way.

[A]

Okay, so, you know, you're making me think about something which is, I know you don't have a vision board or a long term plan like me, but do you have a clear sense of what your why is like, what drives you, your purpose?

[B]

I do now.

[A]

Yeah. What is that?

[B]

It's to help women. Yeah, I just want to help women feel good about themselves.

[A]

What do you think that's about?

[B]

After, like, the lights came on and I realized that women are just all sitting alone, feeling bad about themselves because society told them to somewhere many ways along the line.

[A]

So interesting, right? And so did discovering that or leaning into that change your life?

[B]

Yes. Cause it's just like, everything is like, my sunny side up. This is for women. Like my megababe. It's for women to feel more comfortable. I made a hemorrhoid cream. Cause I'm tired of women who give birth. They don't even know the word hemorrhoid until suddenly you have a baby and you're like, what the. What is that? So I want to bring these conversations to the front so we can all stop feeling so ashamed about normal things. Even the thigh gap conversation that we had, like, that's up until like 2017, you know, you're still walking around being like, I don't have a thigh gap. Like, no shit. Like, no one has a thigh gap. So it's just these very few people. Yeah, very few people. And great if you do, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just I feel as though. So we've been feeling bad alone, and I'd like to feel better together.

[A]

I just wanna ask again about one of the things that sort of came up earlier in our conversations, which is, do you know when you're in the messy parts?

[B]

No. The thing that I find really interesting, especially when it comes to megababe, you know, I used to listen to a lot of, like, entrepreneurial podcasts, and I hated them. And I stopped listening to them because it's everyone just being like, I exited my company and I sold my company and I'm like, I need to know about the times when you're, like, crying on the floor or like, you just got rejected for the fifth time. Or like, your manufacturer, like, sent 20,000 units with the wrong label printed. Like, I want those moments because that's what every day is.

[A]

It's hard to be an entrepreneur.

[B]

Oh, my God. And I think I used to think that if you got into Ulta or Target or a big retailer, that it was game over. You were in. You got it. Like your business is made. And that was just really the beginning. And that's like, where your issue. What is it? Mo money, mo problems? Like, it's. You just keep. You keep having bigger issues and things that you think would not be a problem. You know, almost eight years into the business, like, you still. You run into the craziest things, like our, like, tubes printed upside down or manufacturers running out of like one single ingredient. And so what I'm saying is that like, and you're always fighting for your shelf space. It's not like you are you.

[A]

It doesn't end.

[B]

It never ends.

[A]

How many years have you been doing Megabyte?

[B]

It'll be eight in June.

[A]

Okay. And so you've stuck to it, which is a long time. It's not a short amount of time.

[B]

No.

[A]

And you listen to entrepreneurial podcasts and they didn't give you the advice you needed. So what is the advice you would give to somebody who's listening, who wouldn't get it in that?

[B]

You never, you never feel like you've made it. You never feel like that. Like, that's how I feel. I don't feel that we. We've like achieved the. And I think it's hard because I am always looking around at competition. I'm always looking around at brands that are funded. I will repeat again that we are self funded. So we have no outside money, we have no board, we have nothing like that. And I look around at brands who are doing activations like pop up coffee shops or big massive mailers, and I'm like, look at them moving the marketing needle. And then you find out a year later that they made no money and they closed. So I think it's hard, especially in like, the product industry, because you're always looking around. Well, any industry, you're always looking around. And I think what they don't show you is important, which is that this is a mess. This whole business is a mess.

[A]

It's all a mess.

[B]

It's all a mess. Every. It's all a mess. And I think if people led more with the hard stuff, you would, I don't know, you'd have a lot more.

[A]

Maybe forgiveness or empathy for yourself along.

[B]

The journey, or even your customers, like bringing your customers in on the journey.

[A]

All right, so we're gonna do Rapid fire. Okay, what is your favorite karaoke song or walk on music?

[B]

Oh my God. I have never been to karaoke and I would die of embarrassment.

[A]

Okay, Walk on music.

[B]

Also just terrified. Yeah. Music. I'm not being short about this answer. I'm sorry, but like if you ask me to DJ at the. Put the song on on the radio, like in front of a crowd, it's one of my things where I just. I'll just jump out of the car. Like I just can't. Okay, good to know. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I. I go with Girl on Fire.

[B]

That's a great song. No. And that's a great answer. I just. I literally, I'm just like, no. I have no. I'm melting to the floor.

[A]

Okay. Amazing. What is the food you'd bring to a potluck? In fact, what is the food you brought to the longest table?

[B]

Oh my God. Obviously we. We probably.

[A]

I see Johnny making a face, which means like, did you not bring food to the bottle life?

[B]

We're.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

I think we went to Billy's and picked up cupcakes.

[A]

Okay, that's good. Cuz I also would not cook store bought. I mean, I'm going to go with it cuz I. It's close.

[B]

I didn't cook. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Oh, cook. No, no. Alternative career. If you weren't doing this, what would.

[B]

You be so glad you asked. A facial recognition specialist for the FBI.

[A]

I do love those shows.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. That's why I don't understand when people don't ask for a lawyer when they get arrested. Because I'm like, haven't you watched Law and Order?

[B]

Because you are going in as an innocent, nice person and you're like, this is what I would do. I think about this all the time.

[A]

Watch more tv.

[B]

No. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

John's like, don't talk to anyone.

[A]

Yeah, no, I. I get it. That's. And I will say my knowledge comes from television. What are you reading, listening, or watching?

[B]

I'm currently listening to my own. I'm listening to my own book right now. I'm going to start the Mel Robbins Let Them theory book. My mom just listened to it and said I need to listen to it.

[A]

What would you say people would be surprised to learn about you?

[B]

I'm as much of a curmudgeon as I am because I think I keep it pretty positive online. You know, if I don't like a movie and I don't like. If I don't like a restaurant, a movie, something. I don't really put negative Opinions out online. Unless it's about, like, a man or, like, the media or something like that, I. I keep it pretty positive. But in real life, I am. If you ask, like, my friend Ryan, he's like, you've never liked a cup of coffee in your life. Like, I. I am a big complainer.

[A]

Amazing. See, there was a surprising thing. What is the one piece of advice you'd like to leave everyone with?

[B]

Oh, just do it. Just do it. I see people and it breaks my heart having the same idea or the same thing that they've wanted to do. And you talk to them a year later, two years, three years, four years, and they still haven't done it. And I'm like, just do it.

[A]

And I'm going to say, we might have learned from you to dream big, because I think, sure, don't limit yourself.

[B]

Don't limit yourself. See, because. Why not? Because you want to know what? Oh, now I'm going. Here it goes. I'm just saying that I think that. I think you think that people get to where they are because of some special skill you don't have. And then the further in you go, you realize that everyone's just a person and that they got there for whatever. And I feel like once you realize that, you can lift the ceiling and just dream bigger, because there's no reason why it can't be. Know you.

[A]

You don't limit yourself.

[B]

Don't limit yourself. Yes.

[A]

Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming. That was really fun. Thank you. I can't wait to read this book, because now it actually has, like, even more meaning.

[B]

No, you're gonna really like it. It's very neighborhoody. Yeah.

[A]

But I'm now seeing the movie.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Film it on the block. Exactly. We're gonna dream big.

[B]

All right.