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- [00:00]
A
Some of the pushback I get, especially online, is people just hate that I'm like positive and optimistic and they think, and they think maybe that makes me dumb or maybe that makes me unrealistic in pollyanish or whatever. And I'm, I'm very clear eyed. I was targeted as an Islamo fascist and then put on all of these websites like Breitbart, back when and the Daily Stormer and the Daily Caller and all of these crazy right wing websites. I've gotten death threats, I've gotten scary death threats to my parents phone about killing me. Right? There's, I'm not act, I'm not here pretending like people are not bad. There are some people that are bad, but they're really, really, really, really, really such the minority that I'm able to kind of like, I mean, shrug those off. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it's like fun to get death threats. That's just part of being like, you know, doing stuff that, where you're trying to get public attention and especially being a woman doing that, it's a little bit worse. Right. And so I think that stuff, it just hasn't brought me down. Like, I don't know why. I just think of that stuff as like an irritation. Sort of like when you, when you're in retail or something, you know that like some small percentage of stuff is going to be stolen but you're still going to have profits and you ignore that small percentage of stuff. That's kind of how I view life in comedy, is just like, yeah, some small percentage of people are going to do death threats, but ultimately, you know, you will like profit in the grander sense.
- [01:51]
B
Hi, I'm Marian Benam, the host of the Messy Parts podcast. Today we're going to talk about optimism, the ability to just step up even after incredible rejection and what it takes to just do something about it. We're going to have Negeen Farsad, comedian, filmmaker and just all around good human being on the show and you're going to want to hear this conversation. So Nagin Farsad, social comedian no, we call it a social impact comedian.
- [02:20]
A
So there was a time when someone like refer to me as a social justice comedian. Social justice comedian. I've been with that for a while. But I mean, I mostly just say comedian because I do too many jokes about like farts and dick to like, you know what I mean? It's like where does that land?
- [02:37]
B
Where does that fall in the land of social justice?
- [02:39]
A
Exactly. It doesn't so, anyways, comedian is like a nice umbrella. And then there's like, a little activism, there's a little acting, a little filmmaker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [02:50]
B
Well, I mean, first of all, I want to say thank you so much for coming on to the messy parts. And welco, you and I got a chance to meet when we. I think we did a panel.
- [02:58]
A
By the way, I think there was an astronaut on our panel as well.
- [03:01]
B
Oh, I think you're right. There was an Iranian astronaut on the panel. Because we are both Iranian, and we were at an Iranian women's event.
- [03:07]
A
Right. They stuffed all of the, like, Iranians that were super eclectic and had nothing to do with each other on one. One.
- [03:15]
B
One panel. And we sat at a lunch together, and I remember you telling me about a film that you had just made that had released on Apple called the Muslims Are Coming. And I remember going home and watching it and just. I was, like, dying laughing. And it just was so amazing to talk about these pretty complex topics, but through the lens of comedy, which I think is sort of maybe why people said you were a social justice comedian. But I want to start kind of with the beginning, because I think one of the things that's interesting is that you also are Iranian and you grew up here in the States, primarily in Palm Springs.
- [03:49]
A
Palm Springs, yeah.
- [03:49]
B
Where there were really not a lot of Iranians. And so what was that experience like for you?
- [03:54]
A
We moved to Palm Springs when I was seven. Before that, we were in Virginia, in a town called Roanoke. And it wasn't like, you know, suburbs of D.C. virginia. It was like, really Virginia. And my earliest memory was my brother, who was in high school when I was, like, three. He came home with a black eye because he was getting. Benis was in the 80s. People had hated Iranians in the 80s, which is, like, interesting, because I think now, I'm not saying they don't hate Iranians. I'm just saying they're, like, a little. It's a little less intense vitriol. But at that time, you know, to be in high school as an Iranian in the 80s, I think that was really rough, especially in a place like Virginia. And so my earliest memory is my brother getting beaten up for being Iranian. And eventually, of course, my parents, a couple years later, moved to Palm Springs, where I primarily grew up. And in Virginia, I mean, everybody was white, right? The second we hit Palm Springs, I was like, oh, but most everyone is Mexican. And that was. Honestly, I think my brother had it far tougher than I did. Right. Because I grew up Amid such diversity, like, people just thought Iranian was like, another way of saying Mexican, you know? And so it was just like an easy transition. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how you felt about it, but I kind of felt more like it made me want to, like, learn more about everything and then also, like, share stuff in a way that was funny to people.
- [05:26]
B
So when we moved, I was, like, 79. So, yes, the 80s were hard, particularly because of the hostage crisis. And we moved to sort of a lily white suburb of San Francisco, where there was also not a lot of diversity. Diversity of any kind. Not just non Iranians.
- [05:39]
A
Right, right, right.
- [05:40]
B
There was just, you know, there were not a lot of Mexicans either. So I always wondered after I met you if my experience would have been different if I'd moved to San Jose, where maybe there was more diversity in California at the time. Because for me, particularly in junior high and high school, it was sort of like you had to become like everybody else, or you were very much sort of sticking out like a sore thumb. And it was only until I came to New York, where I sort of found other people. I mean, I say there's eight of every person in New York, so you could sort of be whoever you wanted to be.
- [06:09]
A
Yeah, I think you're probably right that there's something about how I grew up where, like, because there was just another dominant minority, it felt okay. Like, did I have different, like, far different, way more Muslim rules about how I grew up and, like, whether I was allowed to go to dances or, like, stuff like that? Yeah, totally. And could anyone pronounce my name on the first 12 tries? No, they couldn't. But, like, growing up in a town where people understood that, oh, Mexican Americans are bilingual, I am authentic bilingual. It's not a big deal. You know, I remember one of my best friends coming over. He used to always come to our house and look through the fridge when my parents weren't home. And, you know, we have this dish called Fes and John. He was always like, does your mom make Fessen john? Which is a very unusual and quite delicious walnut pomegranate molasses chicken dish. And most people were like, oh, my God, who thought to put walnuts and pomegranate molasses together? Also there's such a thing as pomegranate molasses. But it also wasn't weird to him. Right. Because it's like he also had, you know, grandparents from another country, and it wasn't as big a deal. So I do think if you're surrounded by people that have this cross cultural existence already makes your life a little bit easier.
- [07:26]
B
It's funny, as I listen to your stories, I remember my own and they being so different because I remember people calling to hear my grandmother because she had a funny accent, as if it was like a prank thing or. I mean, they came over and of course they love Iranian food because it's delicious, but. But they didn't really relate to it in the way that you're describing. And I always wondered, would I have felt a better sense of belonging if I had actually lived in a town the way you're describing it?
- [07:49]
A
You know what I think that sense of belonging, I think most of my stuff, like probably came from being a girl more than being an ethnic girl. I think it's just harder being a girl and going through puberty and like, you gotta be skinny and like, you know, the 90s and just waif thin and all of that stuff I think probably messed me up more than anything. There was something about that sense of belonging that I feel like I've carried with me, which is that I love performing, doing standup in red states. Like I've toured in places like Indiana and Kentucky and Alabama. I've done shows in South Dakota and Wyoming and I love performing in these places. And my attitude, and maybe this is kind of tracks back to Palm Springs. I don't know, just thinking about it now for the first time, but I think that my attitude is always like, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna make a lot of friends here and we're gonna have a good time. And do you. I. Yes, yes. And even in the, you know, even in times. I've told the story before where I was performing in Centralia, Washington, and Central is like three hours outside of Seattle. It's in the Pacific Northwest. It's raining. It's like a very small town. As I drive through the town, the first thing I see is just like Christian bookstore, Christian cafe, Christian laundromat, Christian. Like every store there was labeled Christian. You know what I mean? I was like, this is interesting. And so then I arrive at the theater again. Don't know why they brought me out there. It was an interesting choice on everybody's part. But like, I show up and there's about 25 people protesting me. And you know, they're holding signs, the whole thing, because they thought I was going to convert everyone to Islam. Which, if you see how I look, visually, doesn't track. Visually, it doesn't track. I like mostly look like a cartoon character. I don't think I'd exude very many terrorism vibes either. You know what I mean? There's just a lot of. It doesn't make sense. So I'm at this thing, they're protesting me. It started to rain, right? Because it's the Pacific Northwest. And I walk up to the protesters, and I was just like, you guys, it's raining. Why don't you come watch the show? And then when the show, you can sit in the back, and when the show's done, you can come right back out and keep protesting me. And they thought about it, and then ultimately they were like, no, actually, why don't we sit in the lobby? And I was like, yeah, sit in the lobby. You don't want to get rained on. You know what I mean? And then what, your poster board gets destroyed? That for them. Yeah. And they're like, okay. So then I did my show. You know, they sat in the lobby. You know, the show was over. They came back out and protested me. My takeaway from that story is that, oh, my God, aren't our rights in America great? I'm allowed to perform. I have every right to do that. They have every right to protest me. We're both civil about it. I don't even know that they thought that I was going to be chill, like, have a fun, nice, easy conversation in a very Iranian way. I was like, oh, let me be a good host to these people protesting. Let's invite them in. Does anyone have any pistachios or dried fruit we could offer these protesters? You know what I mean? It was sort of, like, flattering, right? Like, you think I have any influence or power over these people? Wow. You know what I mean? Can someone tell my agents? But I assume the best. And I think, like, when we're talking about, you know, this time in American life, I think people don't assume the best. And that's the mistake. You walk into a situation and say, I belong. This is going to be great. Everyone's my friend and work from there.
- [11:56]
B
I want to pull back for a second.
- [11:57]
A
Yeah.
- [11:58]
B
I want to talk about you deciding to be a comedian because Iranians, like all good immigrant families, want their kids to be engineers and doctors.
- [12:07]
A
Yeah.
- [12:07]
B
And in fact, your parents are doctors.
- [12:09]
A
My dad's a doctor. That's right.
- [12:11]
B
So you decide you're gonna be a comedian. I wanna know how you broke that news to your parents.
- [12:16]
A
Part of it was also like, how did I break that news to myself? You know what I mean? Because I Did because I recognize that it's a terrible career path.
- [12:24]
B
What does that mean?
- [12:25]
A
There's no stability, no one should do it. I have a daughter and like, I want the line to stop with me, you know, like, it' disease. I don't want to pass it on. I want her to go into like, HR or just like something really, you know what I mean? Stable. So I didn't want to do it. And I was in grad school for public policy. I got a dual master's one in African American studies, which all Iranians should go get. All Iranians should have and, and all comedians. So I had another degree in public policy and I worked as a policy adviser for the city of New York in campaign finance. I truly believed in. I wanted to be a public servant. I wanted to go into politics. Like, I, I thought, oh, eventually I'll run for office or something. But before that, I will just rise through the ranks. I'll be a good soldier, I'll do the job. But I was doing comedy all throughout college and then all throughout grad school. And I was at with these like, serious people at Columbia who were like doing study groups. And I'd be like, that's great. I have a set downtown, so like, I'm gonna go early, you know what I mean? It was very obvious to my friends that like, I wasn't doing it right. Like if I was so serious about public policy that I wouldn't do all these 500 other things. And I was like, no, no, no. I have like a 40 hour week hobby. It's just a hobby.
- [13:50]
B
When did you start doing comedy? How old were you?
- [13:52]
A
Oh, like in high school.
- [13:53]
B
And what you decided one day, like, oh, I'm not gonna do math, I'm gonna go start telling jokes.
- [13:58]
A
I was a perfect student. You know, I got perfect grades. I did everything right. So in my mind, it was just really a side thing that I was doing, like theater and whatever. And the first time I got on stage, I was in a musical called Once Upon a Mattress. And I was not kitchen wench number one or kitchen wench number two, but I was kitchen wench number three. Some might say the soul of the kitchen wench is. I don't know who would say that, but some would. And I got on stage and I did a thing it like silly physical comedy or whatever. And I got huge laughs. And I was like, this is an interesting feeling, you know what I mean? Because it's just like, oh, everybody's laughing and I can say anything right now. And they would Listen. And that was a really interesting realization. And it just sort of like built from there that you make people laugh and then they listen to you.
- [14:55]
B
And when did you start leaning into sort of the more social justice pieces of the comedy?
- [15:01]
A
You know, I was always interested in that stuff, right, Because I was always interested in politics. I was always interested in how government works. I always thought, what's great about being American is that you're building towards something better all the time. And once I left my job working for the city to go full time into comedy, you know, one of my first jobs was as a writer on this Comedy Central. Like Web. No, mtv. Mtv Web series. Wow. I don't remember my first job, but I think it was mtv. That's right, it was mtv. It was sort of like a little, little mini late night type show. We were writing a lot of monologue jokes, a lot of sketches and stuff like that. And I remember just being like, okay, I need to write like three jokes about Justin Bieber's abs by one o', clock, you know, and like that pressure of like writing stuff that it doesn't matter, you know what I mean? That it was a job where I was like, under, under the gun. But to write stuff that was so, so dumb, you know what I mean? Like, and after a while of, of living like that, I was like, oh, I do need to do things that are more important. At least do something from my own tiny, tiny, tiny corner of the world that might like, change hearts and minds, you know?
- [16:21]
B
We still didn't talk about your parents and yeah, when you told them that, oh, you know, forget stability, I'm going of comedy.
- [16:29]
A
Yeah, I could tell they were disappointed because I literally eavesdrop on their phone calls. And I was in the other room one day when I was visiting for Christmas or something and my mom was on the phone with a friend of hers and she was like, we are disappointed. You know what I mean? Like, she literally said it. And the way they would always say to their friends, like, if we went to a party or something, this is our daughter, she's a comedian, but she has masters from Colombia. They always talked about the degrees, right, as a way of like saving face that our daughter went into this ridiculous field where we don't know if she's ever going to earn money. And then always said to me, oh, but you could always fall back on policy or whatever. You could go back and work for the government. And I'm like, it's been five years, it's been six years, it's been 70. I was like, who would even hire me for a government job anymore? Like, I'm so obviously a comedian, you know. And so they were, you know, disappointed for a long time. And then one day, I mean, this is like maybe five or six years in, I mean, I was still living on beans, like making very little money. And I asked my, my parents if they would help me pay for a plane ticket to go home for Christmas. And I was like, I'm really sorry, it's going to get better, I promise, you know, and he was just like, no, don't be sorry. You're like a scientist. And I was like, what? He's like, well, you know, scientists, they have to work for years before they have a discovery. And sometimes they don't even see their discovery in their own lifetime, but they're working towards it. And that's what you're doing. You're building a career as an artist and it's like being a scientist. And I was like, oh, okay, thanks. I didn't realize you saw it that way. I fucking do hope I see some of the fruits of my labor before I die. Just for, just for, just to. Let's just get that out there. But it was interesting because, you know, I come from parents who didn't get to have the choices I had, right? They had to just make utilitarian choices. And my dad wanted to be an artist. And when he was in Iran, he won a scholarship to go to an art school in Italy. And his dad was like, no, we don't. That's not real. And so you have to figure out something else. So he chose surgery, which was a.
- [18:52]
B
Different form of art.
- [18:52]
A
A different form of art, working with your hands, craft based or whatever. So it kind of made sense. And my mom wanted to be an opera singer and she studied opera. But again, it was like that was an inappropriate career path for a wife. So I think in many ways I'm sort of fulfilling the things that my parents had secretly always wanted for themselves. Do they wish I was a doctor or whatever? Like still? Yeah, probably because the lifestyle worries them. Because I'm on the road so much, they think I don't see my daughter enough. You know what I mean? Stuff like that.
- [19:25]
B
Why don't you tell us about that? Cause you're married, you have a beautiful young daughter. What is the messy part of actually.
- [19:32]
A
Sort of having made this choice when you're a comedian? Like, you're just, you're on the road a lot. Like I always say, like, oh, one day I'll Take maternity leave, you know? Cause I didn't get to do that. And I think that's sucked. You know, I think any time you take something that was, like, sort of fun and you love doing it. I loved doing comedy at night. And then the second I put financial pressure on deteriorated some. And then when I had a kid, it deteriorated a lot.
- [20:03]
B
What does that mean, when you had financial pressure deteriorated? I'm not sure I'm following.
- [20:07]
A
Once I went into comedy full time, I had to earn a living from it. And that puts, like, a pressure on the art so that it's not as fun anymore, right? It's, like, less fun because you're like, okay, I guess I'm gonna do a commercial about potato chips because I need the money. You know what I mean? And so, like, all of those little decisions kind of like, hack away at the thing that you started with, which was just like, all of these great ideas about what would be interesting and fun and funny. And then when a kid exacerbates all that because you're like, oh, my God, I have to put food on the table for this one as well.
- [20:49]
B
Oh, my God, you're married to an actor. Jason. What is that like?
- [20:55]
A
It's interesting because at first I had a rule of, like, I don't date actors or comedians or whatever, and I was, like, pretty good at sticking to that rule. Most of my life. I didn't date them because I always just thought, like, it's just, like, too many emotions and too much instability for, like, one couple. But then I dated so many guys that, like, couldn't handle, like, my career or, like, they didn't like being the subject of my stand up or, you know. Yeah, they didn't like the public aspect of it. And then when I met Jason, and he's an actor, he just had no confusion about what he was getting into. He will tell me something stupid he did in the hopes that it ends up in stand up, you know, so there's something about being with another artist that's very freeing because they get it. And, you know, he'll see my standup where I throw him under the bus, and he just thinks it's hilarious, right? Like, he doesn't care. He has no ego about that stuff. And so that's really great, I think, where it. You know, I remember, like, when the pandemic struck, we were both like, oh, we're both in careers that require very much in person time, and the industry shut down, you know, and then it was just like this. This utter sense of Panic of how are we going to earn money? And we have this 18 month old. And so that I think is. Can be really tough because what do you do? And even when she was born, you know, the industry doesn't let you choose your schedule. Right. Especially when you're an actor. When she was born, maybe like, six weeks in, he got a call to be on the last season of Homeland, which was shooting in Morocco. So he spent several months of her, first six months of life in Morocco. Not ideal. Right? I was in America. I had to go on the road. I ended up taking her with me to gigs in, like, you know, I remember taking her Indianapolis and seeing the producer of the show and just being like, like, here's this baby. I'll be on stage for the next hour. As you know. Good luck. Good luck. I'll see you after the show. Like, with my baby, I had to do stuff like that all the time. We ended up, like, hiring a nanny and whatever and helping us. And it was really hard because the business doesn't care that you're a parent. Most businesses. Right. Don't care that you're a parent. But because there's so much geographic displacement that happens in this business, you just have to, like, deal with those things. And that, you know, has been and still is, especially for Jason, who's more in town than I am. You know, he ends up having to be the primary parent a lot. And I think that's really. I like to think of him as, like, you know, this kind of, like, hardcore, like, soccer mom, like a Park Slope mom, and I'm like a 1980s dad. And that's, like, how. That's how it's working out.
- [23:55]
B
It's all a TV show in your house.
- [23:57]
A
Yes.
- [24:00]
B
So for people who are listening, who are either starting off or they're somewhere in the journey where either they've been laid off or they've decided to take a break. What is the lesson that they should take away from, you know, the journey that has brought you to this point?
- [24:12]
A
Well, it's funny, like, when people ask me about going into comedy, this all started because I wanted to be an actor. This would be the mid 2000s. They just wouldn't put very many ethnic girls on camera. So it was very hard to get those jobs. So that's when I started to be like, how else can I get jobs? I learned how to edit. I learned. So that's what started the filmmaking. I was like, oh, I could raise money. I could make my own movies. I could do voiceovers. I Could write. You know, I started writing for different newspapers and magazines. I started commercial sometimes if they would give me those. But standup was one of the first things that, like, I could do, and people started paying me, and it just happened that way. You know what I mean? I was like, well, this is good. I'm diversifying my income stream, and this is how I'll earn money. And that's just kind of like how it's grown since then.
- [25:09]
B
But if I can think about the story that you're just telling, right? You started off wanting to be an actor, and in that journey, other opportunities showed up, or you had to make different choices. And actually it then led you to a path. So you didn't say, like, oh, if I can't be in actress on Hollywood movies, I'm just gonna throw in the towel. You were willing to try other things, other things, other things until you found a path that really worked for you.
- [25:32]
A
And it's interesting because I sometimes wonder, what if I had been more rigorous about the thing I wanted, if I really wanted to be an actor, was I just diluting myself by doing all these other things instead of, like, kind of remaining pure to the goal? But again, that I had that financial pressure and I needed to make money. And I also had the pressure of, like, my parents not wanting to give them a heart attack all the time. Like, I think when we're talking about what's messy, it's like, I don't know if I did my dream justice. You know, the other thing is that I was, like, interested in a lot of things, and I didn't want to, like, ignore those other interests. You know what I mean? Like, I ended up writing a book, and I never thought I would do that, but, like, it happened, and that's cool. It wasn't strictly part of the goal.
- [26:33]
B
But I'm glad it happened from the outside. Nagin, you've broken many barriers. You've written a book, you've made a film, you're an incredible comedian. You have your own podcast. I don't know, how many episodes did you say you recorded?
- [26:44]
A
Like, 470 or something like that. Right?
- [26:46]
B
So super successful. You have given a TED Talk. You're often flown around. Right. It seems so glamorous and perfect from the outside, but I think it's important to talk about the messy parts because I think you still would make this choice. Yeah, but we talk about this when it's just us, that it is messy, that there's many days where it's like, oh, my God, it's hard to get out of bed or the juggle of being a working mom.
- [27:11]
A
Part of the reason we're taping today is because I was doing something for Ted last week and I was like. Like six months of just bunches of gigs that kept me away a lot and just really exhausted. It's weird because right from the outside, it's like, oh, Nagin's in Vancouver, Nagin's in Chicago. Like, it might seem cool or something. Or like 10 years ago or 15 years ago, you had told me, you're going to do these things and you're gonna make this much money. I would have been like, well, shit, I'm awesome. You know what I mean? But, like, then the lived reality is that you just, like, sacrifice a lot, which is, I think, like, seeing my daughter, you know, and sleep and ease. And part of that's like my own fault, right? Like, I'm probably, like, not handling the stress very well or whatever. Or like, not navigating it correctly or I don't know. You know what I mean? There's something like, I hear you being.
- [28:17]
B
Very hard on yourself, which is also a sign of a successful person. But I remember being. For the first time, I went on a. Like, on a vacation with 16, 17 other women. We went on a spa vacation, which I'd never done. I mean, this was like in my 50s. And I remember to the person, all of them were incredibly successful. So they were like, I had no friends. I had to sacrifice my hobbies. I never slept. Oh, I finally am working out. I had yoga clothes, but I would put them on and get on email. So it's a common refrain because to get to what you're trying to get, whether it's to be a comedian or scientist or, you know, whatever.
- [28:52]
A
Whatever.
- [28:52]
B
Yeah, it takes a lot out of you. And yes, of course it looks perfect on the outside, but it's super messy.
- [28:58]
A
It's so messy. And the interesting thing too is that I feel like social media makes me put out all these photos that make it look better. You know what I mean? And I. And I know that that sucks, right? Like, I know that social media makes me feel bad. And then I know that, like, as I'm putting out photos that are, like, kind of look better than what the life is, like, it makes other people feel bad. And the whole thing is just like the gloss on sometimes a pile of shit. I don't know. It's interesting because, like, I did this. One of my weird jobs is I went on a mushroom retreat. I did, like, A fuck ton of psilocybin for a travel magazine. Okay, For a. I know. Did I not talk? I went for a farm magazine, which was a wonderful experience. Like, I went to Jamaica and we did what they call hero doses. And this was like, there were nurses and therapists and handlers. I mean, this was like they share their data with Johns Hopkins, whatever. And I had never done magic mushrooms before in my life. So to walk into like my very first time was not like a party dose of like 0.5 grams. I started with 3 grams. So for anyone who knows anything about it, it's like, that's so much. And then that you go, then, then, you know, and then you have a rest day and then you do it.
- [30:20]
B
So this was a job.
- [30:21]
A
This was a job because I've diversified my portfolio, Maryam and I do a lot of jobs and some of them involve me doing drugs and getting paid. And. But. And it was, it was a real, I mean, any, you know, I mean, I wrote 6,000 words on this experience, but it was like one of these kind of nine perfect strangers scenarios. But it was really interesting because there was like a yogi type person and then there was like a tech bro, and there was like a gay pharmacist, and there was like a full on Hasidic Jewish man, and there's me, the Muslim American comedian, you know what I mean? And so we're just like the most eclectic bunch and we're doing really insane doses. The idea behind therapeutic psilocybin is that you go through therapy that would take you normally a year, two years or whatever of having a realization. You just have those realizations in that day.
- [31:13]
B
Did it work?
- [31:14]
A
It was interesting because like that first dose that I did, it was like a lot about seeing my mom and my daughter and they're interchangeable. And I kept saying to my daughter, she was holding my hand and she didn't want me to go. And I was like, I've got to go on safari. And like, so in my trip, like safari was a stand in for stand up. Which is like, funny because they're, you know, in both cases, like, you can be eaten by wild animals, but if you're not, it's exhilarating, you know. And it was just interesting because then I would see my mom and she would be singing opera and like, it was like this multi generational thing of like my mom and my daughter and the job and the pull of the job, you know, And I was like, God, I was wearing a mask because they don't want you to look at anything. They want you to go inside. And so I, you know, I had this notebook, and I would, like, lift up my mask and I would write, like, everyone deserves a nap. All of my realizations were like, you could put them on the bottom of a kitten poster. You know what I mean? They were so ridiculous. But. But also I felt them for the first time. Right. Because you can go to therapy forever and not necessarily feel the truth.
- [32:23]
B
In some ways, we were both kind of others. And yet you sort of, like, leaned into being the other.
- [32:29]
A
Yeah.
- [32:30]
B
You didn't say, like, oh, I'm gonna try and blend in and find my way through this. You just had to like, no, I'm gonna actually lean into this, and this is gonna be my differential advantage.
- [32:39]
A
Oh, yeah. Is that an economics term? Oh, yeah.
- [32:42]
B
We had somebody on who was an economist maybe. But I do think that it's interesting. Right. So what do you think made you so interested in the other?
- [32:51]
A
Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Although I do.
- [32:56]
B
I would think the mushrooms would have helped.
- [32:58]
A
I know, I know. I need to go back because this round of mushrooms was all about, like, how much work I do. And then I should, like, give myself a break. Like, should be less hard on myself. It's funny. Cause, like, when you grow up in America, there's, like, a set of tropes that you're adapted to in entertainment. So it's like, the Catholics have their guilt and, you know, everyone still masturbates but nobody talks about it or whatever. Which. There's a Venn diagram between that and, like, the Jewish tropes, which are, like, they also have the guilt, but they also have, you know, a fair amount of anxiety. And there's something about matzah. Right? Like, so the. You learn these, like, things, right, about different cultural groups as an American. And I just was like, oh, we should have more of those. And we should push out the one about Muslims. Because right now the one about Muslims is, like, pretty violent. And, like, let's make it fun and more ridiculous than that. Kind of like how I think some of the other cultural groups get, like, more fun ones. And so. And so I feel like people are always like. Like, oh, no one's going to understand your stuff because it's so ethnic. I'm like, no, but that's the thing about Americans is, like, they literally understand everyone's stuff. Like, that's the. The great thing about being American is we've been exposed to so much stuff. Everyone understands everyone's Stuff, maybe. I may.
- [34:27]
B
Maybe everybody understands everybody's stuff. I don't know. Like in New York, I definitely feel that because there's so much diversity and other places, I think sometimes there just needs to be more empathy and explanation.
- [34:38]
A
I was in a gas station near, let's say, Hazard, Kentucky. I can't remember where we were specifically, but it was like, in the middle of nowhere. And I was with a couple of Muslims. And we walk into this gas station and the woman behind the counter, thick Southern accent, had been living in that town her whole life. And she's like, oh, y' all are Muslims. And then she proceeded to tell us what she knew. And she was like, you know, don't the men sometimes wear those hats? You know? And it was interesting because she was 100% the kind of person you'd think knows nothing about Muslims, but she had gathered something from culture, which is why it's important for there to be stuff out there for people to capture.
- [35:24]
B
I say I've learned a lot about the law from Law and Order and a lot about medicine from Grey's Anatomy.
- [35:30]
A
Yeah.
- [35:30]
B
So we do learn from cultural things like tv. Did you grow up being religious?
- [35:35]
A
No, I grew up with religious grandparents who lived with us for quite some time. And so I would see the prayer and my aunts would cover themselves, my grandmother would cover herself. So, yeah, I grew up around that, but my parents were not religious and nothing was imposed on me. It's just something that was, like, around. I will. I say that I'm like, as Muslim as most people are Christian.
- [35:56]
B
So if you look forward, you've done a ton of things already. And I love that you sort of have been sharing that. It's still a struggle.
- [36:04]
A
Right.
- [36:04]
B
Even though, I mean, I would say you're very successful when you look forward. What are things that you want to still accomplish?
- [36:12]
A
Oh, God.
- [36:13]
B
Well, I say this is the manifestation Couch. I kind of like that word.
- [36:17]
A
Wow, that's like oddly, oddly scary. Is that not scary?
- [36:21]
B
Yeah, to most people.
- [36:23]
A
Okay.
- [36:24]
B
But you still have things you want to accomplish.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, I'm making a sequel to the Muslims Are Coming that I'll address the time we're in now. I'll get ridiculous for a second. Yeah.
- [36:37]
B
Oh, no, I like ridiculous.
- [36:38]
A
I want to bring back patriotism and make it not ideological. Right now it's like very red coded or whatever, but I feel like it should just be, we're Americans, we're patriots. Like, that's a given.
- [36:52]
B
You made me remember that you came with your Parents who were visiting and your beautiful daughter to the longest table where we sat with neighbors out on the street, you know, sharing all kinds of different foods with each other without really having a sense, other than our shared humanity of who anybody was or what they believed in.
- [37:08]
A
Yeah.
- [37:08]
B
And I do think that as an outsider, like, that sense of belonging and creating, that you're doing that through your art. And I've started now doing that through tables.
- [37:17]
A
And that event was, like, one of my favorite things ever, because it felt really like, this is the essence of being a person, is that you just meet other people and everyone's cool. Like, this is it. This is the whole. Whole thing, you know? And so I really, really loved that. And it's like, I. It. Whatever I can do with my comedy to promote more of that. That's a goal. Which, again, it's, like, amorphous and big and weird, but that, you know, I feel like I have another book in me. I feel like I have more movies in me. I. You know. But also, I guess another goal is leisure.
- [38:01]
B
Wait, you actually want to stop working and have a break?
- [38:06]
A
I would love leisure. I don't know what it's about. Like, my daughter's six, but, like, one day I would like to take maternity leave and just. I wonder what would happen to people when they don't work for, like, two months or something. Like, what? What happens? Okay.
- [38:21]
B
Oh, my God, that's amazing.
- [38:22]
A
And I would love to do that. That's a goal. You know, it's funny. Like. Like, be like, oh, I came into this to be an actor, and then I ended up doing 43 other things, only one of which is acting. But I also am like, I. There's probably other genres out there. Like, I'm not gonna be a mime, but who knows? You know what I mean? Like, it's possible.
- [38:44]
B
What I love, sort of about listening to your story is that you're all about the possibilities. Like, you're an optimist.
- [38:50]
A
Oh, yeah. Huh. I also think that, like, there's the cynicism right now, and you. When you walk up to someone, oh, my God. Hey, how's it going? You know, like, well, they'll say, I don't know how many times I've heard this. Well, the world is on fire. But okay, I guess, you know? And I'm like, I don't know. We're getting lattes right now. On a beautiful, sunny day. Tell me exactly how your world is on fire and if it really is on fire. What are you doing? Let's do it, let's fix it. You know, I have the gene, the optimism gene or whatever.
- [39:22]
B
Well, you have the optimism gene and the. I'm going to do something about a gene.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah. Which is a gene we, we, which we recognize. We recognize.
- [39:30]
B
Yes. I actually have the ability to do something.
- [39:33]
A
Part of the goal too is that whatever I do, I want to do it with people because I like people and I think things are more fun like the work of like fixing the world or your neighborhood or your family or whatever the goal is. Shouldn't be a slog. It can be fun and it can be done like in community.
- [39:58]
B
That's actually why I love the table. It's with other people and it's totally joyful.
- [40:02]
A
Exactly. And so I feel like whatever our solutions are, let's make it a party.
- [40:08]
B
Messy, but actually joyful.
- [40:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:11]
B
What makes you optimistic?
- [40:13]
A
What makes me optimistic? Just in the first place?
- [40:16]
B
What makes you assume the best when you show up to a situation?
- [40:19]
A
Part of it is being a comedian. You travel a lot, you go to a lot of places. I performed in nearly every State of the Union, like 47 or 46 states of the Union. And so I've seen more of America than the average person randomly just because of this job. So I've encountered more Americans, I've encountered more situations with random Americans. And people have this sense that something bad is going on in places where you live, you know, And I'm here to tell you it's actually pretty great. No matter who you ask, they will have a restaurant recommendation for you. They'll, you know, help, they'll help open the door, they'll help you with their groceries. It's all very normal, delightful and, and, and kind. And I think that's the thing that people are sort of forgetting about everyone who's out there. And by the way, I, I, I think some of the pushback I get, especially online is people just hate that I'm like positive and optimistic and they think, and they think maybe that makes me dumb or maybe that makes me unrealistic in Pollyannish or whatever. And I'm, I'm very clear eyed. I was targeted as an Islamo fascist and, and then put on all of these websites like Breitbart Back when and the Daily Stormer and the Daily Caller and all of these crazy right wing websites. I've gotten death threats, I've gotten scary death threats to my parents phone about killing me. Right. I'm not here pretending like people are not bad. There are some people that are Bad. But they're really, really, really, really, really such the minority that I'm able to kind of like, I mean, shrug those off. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it's like fun to get death threats. That's just part of doing stuff that, where you're trying to get public attention and especially being a woman doing that, it's a little bit worse. Right. And so I think that stuff, it just hasn't brought me down. Like, I don't know why it. I just think of that stuff as like an irritation. Sort of like when you, when you're in retail or something, you know that like some small percentage of stuff is going to be stolen, but you're still going to have profits and you ignore that small percentage of stuff. That's kind of how I view like life in comedy is just like, yeah, some small percentage of people are going to do death threats, but ultimately, you know, you will like profit in the grander sense.
- [42:57]
B
You shrug it off with your comedy. I see you doing it right. You shrug it off with the joke. But let me talk about when a project doesn't go well for you. Can you do that for yourself since you're so hard on yourself?
- [43:07]
A
What's interesting about this business is that things don't go well most of the time. How many auditions have I done? How many, you know, scripts have I sold that didn't get made? I mean, that is the norm. The norm is failure. Right. I experience it literally every day.
- [43:28]
B
How do you pick yourself back up? I mean, that can't be easy.
- [43:32]
A
No. And, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm curious. I'm curious to know what it feels like when you don't have so much failure on a daily basis. You know, like, that sounds nice. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. That does sound really delightful. But I think the thing about being in show business is like an insistence that you won't be weeded out because like they want to get you to self deport from show business.
- [43:57]
B
Was there a moment where you thought of self deporting?
- [44:00]
A
It's interesting because it's never like the huge m, like the huge failures where it's like I didn't get this big job or whatever. It's like I go do standup and the room hates me. And, and it's just like 20 minutes of me suffering in front of a crowd, like where I cannot seem to get them to turn and laugh. And I have friends, other comedians that I call and I'm just like, oh, my God. They hated me. They hated everything I said. They hated everything about. You know what I mean? Those are times where you're like, why am I doing this? Stand up. Because stand up. In particular, like, if you didn't like my book or any of my writing or whatever, like, I'm really never gonna know unless you reach out to me online and specifically tell me. Stand up, though you is. You put yourself in a uniquely terrible situation where an entire audience of human beings are looking. Looking at your face and telling you whether or not they like you via a laugh. And so it's like, when it goes badly, it can feel very much like a rejection of your actual soul. You know what I mean? It sounds terrible. How do you pick yourself back up? It's terrible. And I. And I don't. And I only know that I pick. And I pick myself back up by calling friends and they tell me how they bombed recently, and then it makes me feel less alone, and then I just. And I sleep it off. And when you're comic, you're always like, okay, I just need another set to clean up, to clean the feeling.
- [45:39]
B
One of the things I took away is that you have a peer group that's your community that's there for you in those moments, and that they help you shrug it off, but also, again, reminds you that you're not alone.
- [45:51]
A
Which. Right. And because one of the things that I dislike about the job is that I'm only ever on the stage by myself. It's not a team sport, standup, which is why I like doing shows like, wait, wait, don't tell me where. I'm in a panel and I've got a couple of comedians or we're, like, riffing and we're supporting each other. Like, that's great. But most of the time as a standup, I'm on stage alone. So you have to kind of invent it outside of that and, like, call your people. I mean, it's so funny because I have, like, I call them and just be like, the set I just had, I should quit. Like, the number of times I've said I should quit and other people have said to me, I should quit. It's numbers in the thousands, honestly.
- [46:32]
B
I mean, I love that honesty. Right. Because we've all had those terrible moments.
- [46:36]
A
Oh, yeah. I don't think you should go into it thinking it's gonna be a joyride.
- [46:41]
B
What job is a joyride?
- [46:42]
A
Right, Right.
- [46:42]
B
No, I mean, let's be honest.
- [46:44]
A
Yeah.
- [46:44]
B
They're all tough at different points.
- [46:45]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:46]
B
All right, well, I'm going to come to rapid fire questions. Ready?
- [46:51]
A
Let's do it.
- [46:51]
B
I have to put my glasses on because I'm messy.
- [46:53]
A
No judgment. I just wear no judgment.
- [46:55]
B
Okay. Karaoke song or walk on music? What's your choice?
- [46:59]
A
This is random 4 non blondes.
- [47:02]
B
I love that band.
- [47:03]
A
That one song. I don't even know any of their other music. But that one song, which is called what's Going On?
- [47:09]
B
A food you'd bring to a potluck.
- [47:11]
A
Grilled cheese sandwich with multiple cheeses elevated.
- [47:15]
B
Another career you would have picked if you weren't going to be a comedian.
- [47:18]
A
Fashion designer.
- [47:19]
B
I wasn't expecting that. What are you reading, listening or watching?
- [47:23]
A
I'm reading Abundance, the new book with Ezra Klein and the other author's name. I'm blanking on.
- [47:31]
B
What is something somebody would be surprised to learn about you who knows you well?
- [47:35]
A
I feel like I'm such an open book. Like, I don't hack. Actually don't come with very many surprises. I'm not comfortable in cooking.
- [47:43]
B
What is one piece of advice you'd want to leave everyone with?
- [47:46]
A
Talk to strangers. It's like, will improve your life. I'm becoming potentially the like, crazy woman who just like. Just whenever I see someone wearing headphones, that's when I really get into it. Someone was standing in line in front of me the other day to get like, cinnamon buns or whatever. And like, like, she was wearing headphones. And then I just turned her and I was like, so is this your first time getting these cinnamon rolls? And of course, she. And. And then. But here's the thing. Then she kept chatting with me. She's like, is it your first time? Which one are you gonna get? And then she completely ran with it.
- [48:24]
B
Okay.
- [48:25]
A
Because everybody actually secretly, even if they say they don't like having a chat.
- [48:31]
B
Well, I have to say, Nagin, I loved having this chat with you. And I know that we left people with. With some good tips on how to be more curious how to talk to strangers.
- [48:40]
A
I hope so. It was so fun. Thanks for having me.
- [48:44]
B
Thanks for coming on.