The Messy Parts with Maryam Banikarim
Episode: "No to Wall St. and Yes to Broadway (and Tony Awards and heartbreak) with Tom Kitt"
Release Date: September 1, 2025
Guest: Tom Kitt, Tony and Pulitzer-winning composer, orchestrator, and performer
Episode Overview
In this heartfelt and engaging episode, Maryam Banikarim sits down with Tom Kitt to unravel the real, unpolished journey behind his celebrated Broadway career. The conversation navigates the pivots, heartbreaks, and resurrections that define a creative life, from turning down a stable Wall Street job to weathering flops, personal doubts, and pandemic shutdowns. Tom shares lessons learned, the vital role of community and peer networks, and how collaboration and art-making continue to give his life purpose. It's a masterclass in both resilience and creative grit, showing that behind every award is a tangled, messy backstory—and that, sometimes, the mess is exactly where the magic happens.
Main Discussion Topics & Insights
Tom Kitt’s Musical Roots and Academic Detour
- Early Passion for Music:
- Tom started piano at 4, composed at 8, and was deeply passionate about music from an early age.
"I just felt it wasn’t an option." — Tom Kitt [02:32]
- Tom started piano at 4, composed at 8, and was deeply passionate about music from an early age.
- Struggles with Commitment:
- Despite occasional reluctance to practice, he always returned to music for fulfillment.
- Mentors & Inspiration:
- Influenced by classical, pop (Billy Joel, the Beatles, Elton John), and later Broadway legends.
- Columbia University & Economics:
- Chose to major in economics for practicality, influenced by his father, an ex-baseball player and antitrust expert.
"Economics was actually a way that helped just organize my thought process, my learning process." — Tom Kitt [04:39]
- Chose to major in economics for practicality, influenced by his father, an ex-baseball player and antitrust expert.
- Perfect Pitch:
- Discusses how both music and math/economics leverage similar cognitive skills.
The Big Decision: Wall Street Offer vs. Artistic Calling
- Turning Down Morgan Stanley:
- Received a job offer in public finance but decided to pursue musical theater full-time.
"I don’t think I would ever regret not following through and taking that job. But I knew I would regret not chasing after something that I had been dreaming about since the age of four." — Tom Kitt [07:38]
- Received a job offer in public finance but decided to pursue musical theater full-time.
- Advice for Others:
- If you’re lucky enough to find your passion, pursue it relentlessly.
"Artists are so important… and the more art, the better." — Tom Kitt [08:18]
- If you’re lucky enough to find your passion, pursue it relentlessly.
Early Career, Collaboration, and “The Messy Parts”
- Post-College Hustle:
- Worked as a music assistant, ran errands, played piano bars, and gave lessons while pursuing Broadway dreams.
- Fired from his production company job—a pivotal “messy” moment that forced him deeper into creative work.
"They said… we’re doing you a favor." — Tom Kitt [10:39]
- The Power of Networks:
- Many breaks and collaborations emerged from peer relationships and being "the person who says yes."
- Meeting Brian Yorkey:
- Lifelong collaborator, met through Kitt’s wife at Columbia.
High Fidelity: First Broadway Heartbreak
- Development Journey:
- Spent ~5 years developing "High Fidelity" with Amanda Green after being inspired by the novel.
- Out-of-Town Tryout & Broadway:
- Mixed reviews in Boston, but producers pressed forward to Broadway.
"All these connections, all of these doors that are starting to open are leading to exciting new things for me." — Tom Kitt [15:11]
- Mixed reviews in Boston, but producers pressed forward to Broadway.
- Abrupt Closing:
- Show closed after 10 days; a devastating experience.
"When the show closed, I had to really pick myself up...and there were some months of watching TV and just having a woe is me." — Tom Kitt [18:38]
- Show closed after 10 days; a devastating experience.
- Community Support:
- Friends and professional contacts rallied around him, encouraging him to get back up.
"I had an outpouring of friends and community that reached out, called me, emailed me, and said, I love your show. Keep going." — Tom Kitt [19:30]
- Friends and professional contacts rallied around him, encouraging him to get back up.
Resilience and Picking Up the Pieces
- How He Recovered:
- Gradually re-engaged with music through smaller projects, thanks to outreach from friends like Sherri Renee Scott.
"It was the chance to get back up on the horse... and do something that people were going to get to come see." — Tom Kitt [20:25]
- Gradually re-engaged with music through smaller projects, thanks to outreach from friends like Sherri Renee Scott.
- Lessons Learned:
- Every project, even flops, brings important relationships and lessons; success is never guaranteed.
Pandemic Shutdown and Rebuilding Community
- COVID-19 Impact:
- Faced the shutdown of three simultaneous Broadway shows, loss of work and income.
- Turning Toward Positivity:
- Maryam's pop-up arts efforts in Times Square and the Emmy-winning "New York State of Mind" project reunited Tom with purpose amidst bleakness.
"If I wasn’t a part of that moment, I needed that moment to say, we’re still here." — Tom Kitt [24:22]
- Maryam's pop-up arts efforts in Times Square and the Emmy-winning "New York State of Mind" project reunited Tom with purpose amidst bleakness.
- Collaboration with Billy Joel’s Music:
- Deep personal significance in arranging “New York State of Mind” during COVID as a love letter to New York City.
"He wrote New York State of Mind as a love letter to the city. And in the pandemic, it seemed like we needed another love letter..." — Tom Kitt [26:18]
- Deep personal significance in arranging “New York State of Mind” during COVID as a love letter to New York City.
The Realities of Collaboration
- The Family Dynamic of Broadway:
- Creative work is never solo; intense collaboration means differences of opinion and compromise.
"Every show, every experience is the coming together of a new family." — Tom Kitt [27:53]
- Creative work is never solo; intense collaboration means differences of opinion and compromise.
- Learning to Let Go & Accept Feedback:
- Growth as an artist means listening to others, watching audience response, but staying true to core vision.
"You have some of the answers, and then you really need someone to show you other answers." — Tom Kitt [28:16]
- Growth as an artist means listening to others, watching audience response, but staying true to core vision.
Curiosity, Growth, and Purpose
- Continuous Learning:
- Learning from others’ artistry keeps him engaged and evolving.
"Learning is the ultimate endeavor and gift to be alive and to keep discovering." — Tom Kitt [31:34]
- Learning from others’ artistry keeps him engaged and evolving.
- Purpose:
- Hopes his music offers the same transformative experience he felt growing up.
"If my work has had an impact, if it’s made them look at the world differently… that’s the impact that I set out to make and that’s what makes me continue on this path." — Tom Kitt [33:56]
- Hopes his music offers the same transformative experience he felt growing up.
Advice for Midlife and Late Bloomers
- It’s Never Too Late:
- Pivots and new pursuits can happen at any age.
"Who cares about what age you are? If you are passionate about something, you make it happen." — Tom Kitt [35:15]
- Probability metaphor: “every day is a new coin flip”—the future is always open.
- Pivots and new pursuits can happen at any age.
The Dream Remains
- Future Ambitions:
- Wants to score a film, or create a musical television series.
"I'd love to make a film. I mean, I'd love to score a film. I'd love to do a movie musical." — Tom Kitt [36:03]
- Wants to score a film, or create a musical television series.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Creative Heartbreak:
"This is a very challenging business and you have to be prepared for anything. I'd put all my eggs in that basket...so when the show closed, I had to really pick myself up and figure out what I was going to do." — Tom Kitt [18:38]
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On the Importance of Community:
"Oftentimes when there’s a downturn, your community in some ways comes back and sort of helps you find your way through." — Maryam Banikarim [21:14]
-
On Purpose of Art:
"Artists are so important...They teach us so much about ourselves, about the world, about how we can be empathetic and kind and generous and supportive and loving." — Tom Kitt [08:18]
-
On Meeting Billy Joel:
"He wrote New York State of Mind as a love letter to the city. And in the pandemic, it seemed like we needed another love letter..." — Tom Kitt [26:18]
-
On Late-Life Pivots:
"It's never too late...every day is a new day. Every moment is a new moment for you to take advantage of." — Tom Kitt [35:19]
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On Positivity:
"Be positive every day. If there’s a choice to make about whether to engage in some way that takes in any kind of negativity or anger, just try to find the positive spin on that and put something beautiful into the day." — Tom Kitt [37:20]
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
- 04:08 | Why Tom chose economics at Columbia
- 05:33 | Turning down a Wall Street job for music
- 10:00 | Fired from first job—a pivotal "messy" moment
- 12:29 | “High Fidelity” first Broadway show, and its abrupt closing
- 18:38 | Coping with heartbreak after the show’s flop
- 21:14 | How community provides resilience
- 24:01 | Bringing Broadway back during COVID pop-up performance
- 26:05 | Arranging "New York State of Mind" during pandemic
- 27:53 | Messy, real collaboration process and creative families
- 31:29 | The importance of lifelong learning
- 33:03 | The purpose behind his work
- 34:41 | Advice for starting over at any age
- 36:03 | Tom’s next big dreams
- 36:21 | Fun rapid fire questions
Tone & Style
- Warm, honest and vulnerable
- Encouraging, supportive, and deeply rooted in gratitude for both hardship and opportunity
- Realistic about how difficult the artistic path can be, but ultimately optimistic about the value of art and tenacity
Final Thought
The episode closes on the reminder that “the messy parts”—failures, rejections, pivots—are not detours, but the very foundation and fuel for authentic creativity. Tom Kitt’s journey is proof that embracing the chaos is essential for creating something meaningful, and that art, at its best, is always about hope.
"That’s what great art is about. It’s about mess. You reassemble things. You get in there, you pull it apart, and then you put it back together and you hope...it’s exactly what you dreamed it would be." — Tom Kitt [38:04]