← The Messy Parts
The Messy Parts
No to Wall St. and Yes to Broadway (and Tony Awards and heartbreak) with Tom Kitt
00:38:28
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- [00:00]
A
This is a very challenging business, and you have to be prepared for anything. And I'd put all my eggs in that basket. So when the show closed, I had to really pick myself up and figure out what I was going to do. And there were some months of watching TV and just having a woe is me.
- [00:16]
B
Well, yeah, how did you do that? How did you pick yourself back up? Cause that doesn't sound so great.
- [00:20]
A
It was very hard. If you work in this business long enough, you're going to hopefully have great success and you're probably going to have a moment of disappointment and something that might break your heart.
- [00:37]
B
I'm Marianne Banakaram, host of the Messy Parts podcast. Today we're going to talk about heartbreak, what it takes to have a creative project that doesn't work out. We're going to also talk about creativity and collaboration, because doing work on Broadway, it is not a solo journey. Tom Kitty, Broadway orchestrator, composer, performer, will be joining us to talk about his journey. That includes lots of ups and downs and I'm telling you, a lot of good, messy parts. Tom Kitt, I'm so excited to have you on the show. You are absolutely amazingly talented. Right. Composer, performer, orchestrator. I mean, I can't even come up with all the awards you've won. Maybe we should just take them out and put them out. Maybe I should have made you bring them. Thanks for coming to talk about the Messy Parts. I feel like our lives are always messy, but people have no idea. So why don't we start there? You'll be surprised. Maybe. I don't know, to know that. I did a bunch of research, I learned new things about you, which is kind of hard to believe, but, you know, one of the things that really strikes me is that you sort of knew from an early age that you wanted to pursue something in music. Right? You discovered piano at 4. You know, wrote something at 8, went to camp for music, but then you went to Columbia where you studied economics. Did you always know you wanted to be in music?
- [02:00]
A
I did. I think that from the age of four, the piano and music was just kind of second nature, almost a part of me. And I remember there were times where I wasn't as committed to practicing. And of course, my. My parents would get on me about it and I would contemplate what my life would be like if I were to stop playing, to stop studying. And it just never was an option for me. I just felt it wasn't an option.
- [02:27]
B
For you because you couldn't imagine your life without it or you couldn't imagine disappointing your parents?
- [02:32]
A
No, I couldn't imagine my life without it. I would sort of ask myself the question and say, well, it is kind of a chore to have to practice, and I would like to be watching the sports games or talking to my friends, but contemplating a life without the piano, without music, just. I would quickly think better of it and recommit myself. But I really needed to find something that was going to motivate me and bring out the passion. And it was interesting because different styles, different forms of music did that at really important moments in my life. So growing up, it was classical, and then it was Billy Joel and the Beatles and Elton John, and then it was Stephen Sondheim and Richard Rogers, and then it was back to classical and jazz and pretty much everything. I've been lucky that I've had mentors, people in my life who have come at the right moment and shown me a new path in music, something to really inspire me, something to challenge me. And Columbia was great because the Columbia experience showed me how to be a serious person. I arrived there and because I had been playing so long and was born with something called perfect pitch, which means I'm able to pick notes out of the air and identify them and play by ear, a lot of it sort of came naturally to me. But when I got to Columbia and realized not just the work that goes into being a musician, but also studying economics.
- [04:06]
B
Why did you study economics? Why not music?
- [04:08]
A
Well, I was talking to my father. My father, Howard Kitt, has an interesting history in that he was a. A former major league baseball player. He was signed out of high school by the Yankees, what they call a bonus baby. So he was given a big bonus at that time, and he decided after some time to leave the game and ended up working in antitrust. And he suggested economics. And it just seemed like it was going to be a major that I could really do anything with and really have as a backup in case music. That. And I really loved it. A lot of people say that math and music are very much of the same part of your brain. And there is a lot of math and computation that comes with music, whether it's form, rhythm, counting, all of these things. So economics was actually a way that helped just organize my thought process, my learning process. Now I look at the way I write music, I notate music, score music, just come to any assignment I have. Getting serious about creating and about just being in the world and learning and producing really came out of that major for me.
- [05:27]
B
So when you were Graduating, I read that you had a choice between Morgan Stanley or music.
- [05:34]
A
Mm. Well, this was 1996, and at that time, there were a lot of recruiters on campus, and there was something called career services, where you basically drop your resumes off to. And all these firms can see them and you can get assigned an interview if they're interested. So I thought, well, I'm an economics major, and I might as well just go through the process. And I got, I think, around nine interviews, and I talked honestly. There's something about just kind of freeing yourself and being honest about who you are and what you want that in most situations would make people realize, oh, this is not the right fit for us. But there is the possibility that your freedom will really resonate with someone. And that's exactly what happened. Morgan Stanley and Public Finance, they offered me a job, and it was nice to be wanted and to know that I could go down that road. But again, going back to what I always thought about music and this needing to be a part of my life and needing to see it through, I decided to not take the job and just devote myself to trying to make the life of an artist work.
- [06:45]
B
So it's such an interesting moment for you because I think we all understand the need for financial security, and yet you leaned into something that didn't necessarily immediately give you that. I think people, you know, in different moments of their time might think, like, oh, I now have the financial security, and I'm going to go lean into my creativity. But you trusted yourself and your creativity early. What do you think the lesson is in that for people? Because I do think it's a much tougher job market. Like, you don't drop your resume off now and get people to give you an interview. I think that has changed.
- [07:20]
A
But. Well, first I. I have to say that I was fortunate and quite lucky that if I needed help, I would have it from my parents. But beyond that, I look at the. The landscape right now and I. I, of course, it seems like it's a. It's a very challenging world to come into and to just find your path and find a job. So what I would say is, for me, I'm very lucky that I gambled on something that really mattered to me. Part of the decision for me was really that I don't think I would ever regret not following through and taking that job. But I knew that I would regret not chasing after something that I had been dreaming about since the age of four. If you are lucky enough to have that in your life and to grow up wanting something and. And dreaming of something. And you have a passion, do everything you can to find your way to it. And especially art in the world right now, artists are so important. They teach us so much about ourselves, about the world, about how we can be empathetic and kind and generous and supportive and loving. And the more art, the better. If you're lucky enough to find that early, um, and you really think that it's the life you want, you need to do everything you can to. To go after it.
- [08:48]
B
You made that choice early. You're, you know, well past that now. You're a father of three children. Were there any moments where you thought to yourself, what the heck did I do? I should have taken that Morgan Stanley job?
- [09:01]
A
There are, and still are in this world, many moments where you think, what did I just do? After not taking the Morgan Stanley job, I got a job working at a production company, and they did music for commercials and film, and it was great. I had a salary, I had benefits. I felt like, oh, I have a job. I have some stability. But the job wanted me to, during the day, run errands and do a lot of support work for the company and then stay after hours to learn all this gear and if I have any chance of writing, do it in the late, late hours. And I was trying to get into the BMI Musical Theater Workshop. Brian Yorkey and I, who we met in college and wanted to continue writing musicals, were talking about writing together. I wanted to be able to practice.
- [09:49]
B
Brian Yorkie is somebody you met at Columbia through your wife Rita, is that right?
- [09:53]
A
Correct. Rita introduced us. And Brian and I wrote the Varsity show, which is traditional show, legendary at Columbia and still in existence.
- [10:00]
B
We have done a lot of shows together since.
- [10:02]
A
Yes. So Brian and I met in college, and that year after graduation, we committed to getting to Broadway. Of course, another dream. And I was interested also in being a recording artist in the mold of my heroes, Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, on and on. So I wanted to be able to leave work and go and write and practice and have that life. And obviously that was not the best scenario for me or especially the company. The other thing I should mention is that I had gotten a job playing piano bar the summer of my freshman year through a Barnard student whose father owned this restaurant in Murray Hill called Stella Del Mare, which sadly doesn't exist anymore. So my freshman summer, that was a great summer job, going into the city and playing one night a week for five hours all the songs that I love. And then right after I graduated. They called me and offered me two nights so I would have to leave work early to get to my 6 o' clock gig at Stella Del Mare. And of course, my bosses looked at all this and said, this is not the right fit for you. And they fired me. And I'll never forget, they said, you may not see this now, but we're doing you a favor. And it was because then it made me really double down on just going after the writing and performing. I mean, I had my days free, and some of that was, what do I do? But luckily I was living with five friends from Columbia. I had a very low rent. They were all in the banking world. And I got to see what those hours would have been like if I had taken that job. And I was playing piano bar, teaching piano lessons, getting accompaniment work. But I was free to really pursue my dream.
- [11:46]
B
So firing was actually, you know, being fired, like a very messy part, was actually a major pivot moment for you.
- [11:52]
A
Exactly right. It was, okay, here you go. It's just you. You have to figure this out. It's like a choose your own adventure. It's why I was so interested in writing if then a musical about a woman whose life literally splits into two paths and you see how they play out against one another. Because I'm aware of the choices and the chances that are around your life from the beginning and you're not always aware how significant a moment is going to be. So happily for me, even things that, going back to your question, that maybe set me back or were disappointments. My first musical on Broadway, for example, lasted only 10 days.
- [12:30]
B
Which one? High Fidelity, which you worked on for a long time.
- [12:33]
A
I worked on, I believe, for five years getting to Broadway, which is around the. It's about the average, some longer, some shorter.
- [12:44]
B
So that show is the first show that you get on Broadway and what happens?
- [12:48]
A
I started working on High Fidelity. At the BMI musical Theater Workshop. I met, who remains a dear friend and collaborator, Amanda Green. I went to my high school English teacher, his name is Jock Montgomery. And I said, what books would you recommend that I read that are maybe off the radar, I might not have heard of, or that you just love? And one of them was High Fidelity. And I just thought it would make a great musical. And at bmi, they were saying, sorry.
- [13:14]
B
For people who don't know what is bmi?
- [13:16]
A
Bmi, ascap, basically, they handle publishing and royalties when you're just starting out and they're basically going to be looking after all of your published work. And then Royalties come through to you based on where it's being performed, where it's being played, radio, tv, and you'll get a royalty check. They also have this wonderful musical theater workshop that is a free workshop that you can apply and audition for. And so Brian and I were rejected our first year. So we applied again and we got in. And talking about choice and chance, getting in that second year meant that we were in the same class with Bobby Lopez and Jeff Marx, who wrote Avenue Q, and Curtis Moore and Tom Miser, who are brilliant writers and have been working on the marvelous Ms. Maisel. And I met Amanda Green, who is the daughter of Adolph Green and Phyllis Newman and. And a wonderful writer performer. And I went to see her cabaret show because she invited people from the class. And I just was blown away by her writing and performing. And I said to her, if you ever need a pianist for anything, just let me know. I'd love to work with you. And lucky for me, she needed a pianist. I became her musical director, and that opened up a world to me of Broadway because she had so many friends who would come and perform her work that I got to meet. And my name started to get around as an accompanist and also as a writer. And so it led to me starting to work with a record label called Shika Boom. And basically their mission was to make albums bridging Broadway and pop. And they would make records and they would have these, what they call boom rooms where they would. They would do concerts and get all these exciting Broadway stars to come. And I would basically be the musical director and sometimes arranger for those concerts. So all of these connections, all of these doors that are starting to open are leading to exciting new things for me.
- [15:18]
B
One of the things that, as you're telling the story that strikes me is that a lot of your success or your path was also from just a peer set, like meeting people, leaning into the opportunity. You know, being in a company is writing, but really it's a networked game in some ways. Right. So you meet Amanda, and for five years, you guys work on High Fidelity. I think you had just had your first child.
- [15:44]
A
Yes. So we start working on. I think I pitched it to Amanda in 2002. 2001. 2002. Because it was a touchstone film, High Fidelity. They adapted the book. The rights were with Disney. So we ended up going in and Amanda and I pitching three songs that we had written to Disney, and they gave us the permission to move ahead, and we got Nick Hornby's blessing to do it. So Amanda, because I'm her musical director for cabaret shows, we start playing these songs from High Fidelity out at these concerts and the material is crackling. People are loving it. It's starting to get buzz. So before we know it, we have producers that are showing up to these cabaret shows. We're doing Jeffrey Seller, Kevin McCollum, Robin Goodman, legendary, incredible producers. Rent, Avenue Q and in the Heights, Hamilton. They become interested and we end up happily moving forward. And it's like a dream come true. It was developed in this wonderful, meaningful process of kind of like a garage band. You're out playing your songs and someone discovers you. It just felt right. So we get an out of town production at the Colonial in Boston. Walter Bobby, director of Chicago, signs on to direct. David Lindsay Aber, a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright of Rabbit Hole, comes on to write the book. Christopher Gattelli, who had a huge smash with Altar Boys and is Tony nominated twice this season for Death, becomes her, is the choreographer. So it's this incredible team of people that suddenly things started to just go wrong. And it's very hard to put your finger on when that happens and why that happens.
- [17:30]
B
But you knew that things were going wrong as it was moving to Broadway.
- [17:35]
A
In Boston, we got negative reviews from the local reviewers, but Variety was very positive. So we were hopeful that this was just split, but that the Variety reviewer was, if we did the right work, that would be the way the show goes. But interestingly, when I showed up to see the show again during the run in Boston, the theater was maybe half or at most 2/3 full.
- [18:02]
B
It still moves to Broadway.
- [18:03]
A
It still moves to Broadway because we've announced Broadway and we're going to the Imperial Theater and we do this intense rewriting and just trying to fix the show. And I remember during some of the critics performances, there was one night in particular where it just was bonanza. The audience was over the moon, laughing, applauding. And I remember walking out and Jeffrey saying to me, well, I just watched a hit Broadway show. And I thought, yeah, that did feel like a hit Broadway show. And then the reviews came out and they weren't good. And we closed a week and a half later.
- [18:37]
B
Was there a lesson on that for you?
- [18:39]
A
The lesson that I came away with is that this is a very challenging business and you have to be prepared for anything. I'd put all my eggs in that basket. So when the show closed, I had to really pick myself up and figure out what I was going to do. And there were some months of, of watching TV and just Having a woe is me.
- [18:58]
B
Well, how did you do that? How did you pick yourself back up? Cause that doesn't sound so great.
- [19:03]
A
It was very hard. It's easy to look at it and say, well, the hits are the ones that really matter the most because they did well. But the truth is, every show I've worked on has been a personal endeavor and has brought me into the world of great artists. And I named all those artists on High Fidelity because it was a room of spectacular, spectacular talent. And to this day, High Fidelity is one of my favorite experiences and a show that I continue to believe in. And I hope that it might get back out in the world. So all you can do is bring your best self to your work. And if it doesn't go the way you want, you take the lessons and you keep going. If you work in this business long enough, you're going to hopefully have great success. And you're probably going to have a moment of disappointment and something that might break your heart. And what happened to me after High Fidelity is there was an outpouring of friends and community that reached out, called me, emailed me, and said, I love your show. Keep going. This is just a first. Pick yourself up. And I had next to normal feeling, Electric in motion. And David Stone, my dear friend who produced the show, called me into his office and he said, I'm sorry about High Fidelity and take the time you need, but don't take too much time. Cause you need to get back to it. I have a show that I'm counting on you to make for me. So it took a while, but I started to slowly find my way back. And one of the things that happened was back to Sherri Renee Scott. She and her collaborator, Dick Scanlon, another good friend, called and said, we're developing this show, and we need someone to come in and be the musical director and do some arrangements and orchestrations. And. And I said, yes, I would love to do that. And that became a show called Everyday Rapture. And Michael Mayer ended up directing that production. And that led to American Idiot. So it was this one little moment of a friend reaching out. And again, it was off Broadway. There was gonna be money, but it was going to be a small friendly fee. But it was the chance to get back up on the horse and be involved with great artists and do something that people were going to get to come see.
- [21:14]
B
You know, one of the things that strikes me as I look back at your career and sort of your journey is that it's very collaborative, right. And oftentimes when there's a downturn, your community in some ways comes back and sort of helps you find your way through. Because it has to have been hugely disappointing in that moment. And I remember, Tom, when Covid happened, you had three shows that were going and then all of a sudden everything went dark. Right. Another, like, huge where you were gonna have three shows running at the same time on big stages. And then literally the music stopped. And then in that moment, you and I really got to not just know each other, but work together. Yes, because as we tried to do a whole bunch of things to help the arts community and New York City, we heard a lot of no's. But you immediately said yes when we had this idea of doing pop ups, which turned out to be a moment for Broadway with the Broadway singer singing in Times Square and even the music video we did of Billy Joel song. What do you think makes you say yes when so many people are inclined to say no?
- [22:16]
A
Well, going back to, I guess, my childhood, when I would see people in the world leading the way in some inspirational moment, I always felt like if I had the opportunity, I would want to do the same thing. I would want to put myself out to inspire people and show that things are possible and hopefully create something inspiring. That moment in the pandemic. I remember I was going through a major depression because as you mentioned, all those shows stopped. I had no income, I had no work, and I had three children who I needed to be a part of getting through this. And I was just imploding and it was all falling on my wife Rita. And I remember we were having a conversation about just what I could be doing. And she said she had gotten an email from you and she had been talking glowingly about you for a number of months and just saying that you are one of these people who make things happen. Just if you need something in the world to happen, find Miriam. Little did you know, and it's true. And you were gathering people to talk about how we were going to make gestures in the pandemic that can move people, that can connect people. And I just always want to be a part of that. I feel like the artist in me, the creator in me. Rather than saying, I don't want to be a part of something or leave it, I see the possibility and sometimes you're tired and sometimes you're overloaded. But I'm always more grateful when I see something through because then at the end of it, I get to enjoy something that wasn't in the world previously.
- [24:02]
B
Let's Go back to that moment for a second, right? The world had stopped. You're standing in the middle of Duffy Square. We have 24 award winning Broadway performers come together. How was that moment different from all the incredible hits and not so great hits that you've had?
- [24:17]
A
I felt like there was a lot on my shoulders in that moment. And the city just felt so bleak and deserted and. And I needed something. If I wasn't a part of that moment, I needed that moment to say, we're still here. And I remembered it was the first time I was in Times Square. This was October of 2020, and it was the first time I had been there since March, just before the shutdown. And it was. It was deserted. And I saw the graphic that. That says 2020 when the ball drops. And I just took that in and I took in that whole area. And then we started making music and we started doing what we do. And I saw the joy. Even behind the face shields, I saw the joy on everyone's face. You could just feel it. I remember saying, I gave a speech and I was so nervous to give a speech, but. But I said something to the effect of, people need to know that we're here and we're struggling, but we are trying our best to do what we always do and bring hope and light to people. So in that moment, it's probably one of my most proud and substantial experiences to just be able to, as an artist, lift your voice to the world and give people some comfort and hope.
- [25:33]
B
Besides the moment for Broadway and the work we did for New York City, next at the front end is the work we did with Billy Joel's song New York State of Mind. You clearly had Billy Joel as a hero. We had this opportunity where we reached out to him and he gave us the rights to New York State of Mind. And we made a music video out of that song, which went on to win an Emmy. That was kind of a dream for you. I mean, here is your hero and you get to, in a moment where the city needs it, make a piece of art from that song. What was that like for you?
- [26:05]
A
I can't say enough about what Billy Joel has meant to my life, to my work. I discovered Billy Joel at an early age, but it was when I was, I would say, 12 or 13, that a friend at camp asked if I had heard the early Billy Joel albums. Not just Piano man, which everyone knew, but the album Piano Man. And once I dove into those songs, I spend hours at the piano playing them and singing them songs like Somewhere along the Line and Captain Jack and Got to Begin Again. Great Suburban Showdown, Root Beer Rag, and, of course, New York State of Mind. Summer, Highland Falls. I could name them all. It changed my life. And I would dream of following in those footsteps. And I just also dreamt of being able to thank him one day and tell him how his music has impacted me. And he wrote New York State of Mind as a love letter to the city. And in the pandemic, it seemed like we needed another love letter so that I could go back to that song that spoke to me all those years and put it back into the world as another love letter when the city needs it. And at the same time, say thank you to Billy Joel for all he's meant to me. Probably one of the most important things that's ever happened to me.
- [27:28]
B
So many people said yes because of the relationship you've had and sort of your history. Right. I often think we pay it forward. Right. And so I think you and I both believe in relationships. You've worked with lots of people, and some of them have been your heroes. I mean, are there messy parts of that journey? Cause I even read about, you know, you and Brian, who's been a longtime collaborator. It's not like you always agree. It's not like it's roses every day. Like, what's that like, bring us into that mess a little bit.
- [27:53]
A
Every show, every experience is the coming together of a new family. And family is filled with love, but also different opinions, different schedules, different sensibilities. I learned a lot of lessons on Next to Normal because when you're young, you come into it and you think, I need to protect my work. I need to make sure that no one's making me cut something or rewrite something. But what you learn is that you have some of the answers, and then you really need someone to show you other answers. And happily for us, some of the things on Next to Normal that I was so immovable about, I got time to correct and fix and make the show what it needed to be.
- [28:36]
B
And Next to Normal was. For people who aren't familiar with the show.
- [28:39]
A
Next to Normal was my second Broadway musical that happily went a different route than High Fidelity in terms of its commercial success. It centers on a family struggling with mental illness. The mother, wife Diana Goodman, has been diagnosed bipolar. And it's a story that Brian actually came up with. He had seen a news report on bipolar disorder and shot treatment, and it took 11 years. Lots of stops and starts, ups and downs. We kept working on it. We cut some of those things that I was hesitant to do, sharpened the story. And in D.C. it got the kind of notices that you only dream of.
- [29:22]
B
Oftentimes it feels like it's a very fast paced, changing environment in which you have to work and I mean, lots of inputs from lots of different people. How do you manage that?
- [29:32]
A
You certainly want to engage with everyone, the great artists, but also you can't take in everything. It's kind of like being in previews. When you're in previews with a new show, there's going to be lots of opinions sometimes in real time around you. In the theater, it can be very difficult to hear people's honest reactions to. And then you have to take all of that in and say, well, what are the things that I really can fix and what are the things I agree with? And then it's your job to just compartmentalize and really just get through all of it to say what's going to help me tell the story that I want to tell.
- [30:06]
B
I'm somebody who loves lots of input. On the flip side, sometimes a lot of input can be difficult because you have to also stay true to the vision that you had. Like, how do you sift through that noise?
- [30:16]
A
Someone told me early on, and it might have even been Brian, but that you will have different opinions, aberrations, but that an audience won't lie. And when we were at second stage, we would usually sit in the mezzanine level, which was off to the side, and you get to see the audience's reactions in real time. And there were moments in the show where we really had them. And then were there moments you could see them looking perplexed and whether one person would come up and say, hey, don't cut that moment. I like that moment. But you would think, I just saw 300 people look puzzled in that moment. So even though I appreciate the person who's coming up and saying, fight for that moment, I have to be honest, to use that word again and take in what the audience is giving me. So that's where I feel like you can really do the work. You're not gonna please everybody, but there is a, I think, a healthy way to take in critique.
- [31:03]
B
You have incredible range, actually in your work, from SpongeBob to, you know, Jagged Little Pill to Next to Normal and doing things like Shakespeare in the Park. Right. So wide range. One of the things I read you said was that you like to constantly learn and that you're just very curious because, I mean, you could sort of begin to rest in your Laurels or be like, at this point in my life, with three kids, you know, one's in college, two more going, maybe. Maybe I should try a different path. Like, what keeps you going?
- [31:30]
A
I think that learning is the ultimate endeavor and gift to be alive and to keep discovering. And if I'm lucky enough to be in a room with great artists who are creating in a way that feels new and exciting, when I was doing accompaniment work, I would be given a piece of music. And when you were given a new piece of music, your hands have to now work on the piano in a way that is new. You have to learn a piece of music. I'll never forget. One of my favorite early concerts was accompanying Billy Porter at the Lincoln Center Songbook Series. And Billy threw at me the kitchen sink. It was some of the hardest material, but I remember walking out of that and feeling like I was reborn. Just getting introduced to so much challenging, complex, but beautiful music. And I still feel that way about any room that I get to be in. So I just always feel like if you're lucky enough to be in a room with great artists and be a fly on the wall and take in how they create things, it's just going to make you evolve in really exciting ways.
- [32:50]
B
You clearly had a passion and a purpose early on through music, but now looking back, right with sort of the lens of time, what would you say your purpose was? Like, what's the difference you set out to make in the world or that you're setting out to make still?
- [33:03]
A
As an artist, you put something out into the world and then you let it go, and you hope that you. It resonates in the way that you hoped it would. I'm fortunate that I've had people come up to me and express that my work has meant something to them. And even with a piece like, next to normal, they've gone so far as to say that it has spoken to them in profound ways. And I had that experience growing up. All of the things that inspired me led me on a path and made me dedicate myself to a life as an artist because of that feeling. It's a physical reaction to something. We talk about goosebumps or the hairs on your. The back of your neck or your arm getting raised. When something impacts you in a certain way, that feeling early on is something that I wanted to be able to make and generate in the world. And I think that's what keeps me going. That's what I aspire to do. If my work has had an impact, if it's Influence someone, if it's made them dedicate themselves to the life as an artist or for someone who isn't an artist, it's just made them look at the world differently. That's the impact that I set out to make and that's what makes me continue on this path.
- [34:11]
B
I think lately about people who, you know, maybe didn't make that same choice as you. Maybe they went into economics or took the job at Morgan Stanley. But now for a variety of reasons, either they left their job or taking a sabbatical or making a different decision. And I wonder what it would take for them to now go do the thing that they always dreamed of. We all have pivots in different chapters along the way. It's not just at that moment where you're coming out of school. I mean, I sort of love all the stories of like she wrote her bestseller at 56 or whatever. What advice would you have for somebody who's starting later?
- [34:41]
A
It's never too late. And I remember being on a zoom with Billy Porter and he was talking about his path and he was kind of saying the same thing. And I knew Billy from 2001. I think we first met each other. I was doing one of those concerts at Chickaboom and knowing what an incredible artist and brilliant talent Billy is, all the years I've known him, and then to see this astronomic moment and see him everywhere and making albums and movies, it was such an incredible thing to see for such a dear friend and great artist. And basically his lesson was you just keep going and you keep believing. And who cares about what age you are? If you are passionate about something, you make it happen again. Going back to economics and probability, you learn early on about a coin flip and it's always 50, 50 and 10 flips doesn't have any impact on what the 11th will be. It's still 50, 50. So every day is a new day. Every moment is a new moment for you to take advantage of. And the past is the past. You have to live in that moment today. And if you believe in something, that day could be the day that it happens for you.
- [36:01]
B
So if you look forward, what's your next big dream?
- [36:03]
A
I would love to make a film. I mean, I'd love to score a film. I'd love to do a movie musical. That's a big dream of mine. Or a television series too. That would be very exciting to create a musical television series.
- [36:16]
B
Okay, I have some rapid fire questions for you, but I'm going to need notes for those you Ready?
- [36:20]
A
Yeah.
- [36:21]
B
What is your karaoke or walk on music?
- [36:24]
A
One of my favorite beginnings to a song is the who's eminence front. My karaoke song when I was in college was both Kiss and Let's Go Crazy by Prince.
- [36:35]
B
A food you'd bring to a potluck?
- [36:37]
A
That's a really good question. I bring wine.
- [36:41]
B
You might have already answered this, but if you weren't doing this, what's an alternative career that you would have had.
- [36:46]
A
That I would have had or that I would have liked?
- [36:47]
B
You could have or, I mean, one you'd want to have. Don't pick one you don't want.
- [36:53]
A
I'd love to work in sports.
- [36:54]
B
What are you reading, listening, or watching?
- [36:57]
A
So I've been reading the Sirens Call by Chris Hayes, and I have been watching the studio, which I love, and your friends and neighbors on Apple. And I like to wake up in the morning when I have the time and just put on classical music.
- [37:17]
B
What is one piece of advice you'd like to leave everyone with?
- [37:20]
A
Be positive every day. If there's a choice to make about whether to engage in some way that takes in any kind of negativity or anger, just try to find the positive spin on that and put something beautiful into the day.
- [37:36]
B
Tom, I have to say I love your wife Rita for connecting us, and it's been really amazing to hear sort of the dimensions of the story. Thank you again for coming onto the Messy Parts and trusting enough to just show up sort of sight unseen and joining the couch, sort of like a little therapy session between us.
- [37:53]
A
It's been amazing.
- [37:54]
B
I sort of feel like we have a film to score. We need to redo High fidelity. Right. And the truth is we learn from the messy parts. The things that don't work out. I mean, when they work out.
- [38:05]
A
The messy parts. Exactly right. Exactly right. That's what great art is about. It's about mess. You reassemble things. You get in there, you pull it apart, and then you put it back together and you hope when it's back together and it's exactly what you dreamed it would be.
- [38:19]
B
That seems like the perfect Handy to the Messy Parts podcast. So thank you.