Overcoming Anxiety and Thriving Through a Twisty Career: Emma Rosenblum

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Messy Parts

Episode: Overcoming Anxiety and Thriving Through a Twisty Career – Emma Rosenblum

Host: Maryam Banikarim
Guest: Emma Rosenblum, Novelist and Former Editor-in-Chief
Date: September 8, 2025

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Overview

This episode features a candid conversation between host Maryam Banikarim and Emma Rosenblum, an acclaimed novelist and former editor-in-chief at celebrated publications such as Glamour, Elle, New York magazine, and Bustle. Now known for her witty, satirical novels (“Mean Moms”; “Bad Summer People”), Rosenblum discusses her winding career path—marked by fierce competitiveness and persistent anxiety—and her ability to pivot amid turbulent changes in the media industry. The discussion dives into themes of ambition, coping with uncertainty, motherhood, satire, and the under-acknowledged messiness inherent in even the most successful careers.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. Early Drive: Outsider Status and the Need to Win

• Emma’s Upbringing: Though growing up in an “idyllic” environment, Emma always felt on the “periphery,” using humor and writing to fit in.
  • “I was kind of always on the periphery of the popular group. I was like the funny sidekick.” (02:34, Emma)
• Competitiveness Origin: Attributes her competitive streak partly to middle-child syndrome and inherently hating to lose.
  • “Losing to me was very difficult. It still is...It's just what has always driven me.” (04:38, Emma)

2. Discovering Writing as Superpower

• Early Success: Emma’s humorous essay on hypochondria won a Scholastic Writing Competition, giving her formative confidence in her voice.
  • “I wrote an essay...about always thinking I was dying...My English teacher really loved it and submitted it...and it won.” (06:23, Emma)
• Career Trajectory: Writing skill became her ticket to internships and the “glory days of magazines,” ultimately leading to top editorial roles.

3. The Messy Decline of Print Media (07:36–08:56)

• Industry Changes: Emma details the “total decline” of legacy media amid digital disruption, structural market shifts, and the collapse of print advertising.
  • “I was in there for about 20 years...completely saw the total shift to digital and then the total decline...It's gone completely.” (07:48, Emma)

4. Pivoting and Reinvention (09:06–12:05)

• Anticipating Change: Faced with a shrinking industry and stalled salary growth, Emma began proactively considering new career avenues, exploring content roles outside traditional media.
• On Being Good at Pivoting:
  • Learned resilience from her “boomery” mother: “Pick yourself up and go. If you’re facing a challenge, there’s no time for wallowing. No crying, no feeling bad for yourself.” (10:34, Emma)
  • Observed that frozen, rigid employees get left behind in times of change.

5. Anxiety: Health, Career, and Coping (15:16–18:14)

• Health Anxiety: Persistent hypochondria in youth; anxiety manifests as health crises, not directly as career or lifestyle worries.
  • “Anytime there was a big life shift...it would manifest as, I think I have cancer or I'm having a heart attack.” (15:16, Emma)
• Tips for Anxiety:
  • Marrying someone with a radically different attitude helps; her British husband is “so not concerned” about health that it provides needed balance.
  • “To be in a partnership with someone who is so not concerned...is very helpful...Marry a British person.” (17:21, Emma)

6. The Side Hustle That Became a Career: Writing “Bad Summer People” (18:47–22:58)

• How the Book Happened:
  • Wrote her debut novel while working full-time, using pandemic-era flexibility. Knew her “real strength...was writing, particularly humorous writing.” (18:47, Emma)
  • Sought publication after completing the full manuscript—faced rejection but kept pushing.
  • Notable moment:
    “I had worked long enough on this thing where I thought, I'm gonna make this happen. I'm going to get this book published. Because otherwise it was just a waste of my time.” (00:00, Emma)
• Publishing “Messiness”:
  • Manuscript with placeholder real names got leaked, creating drama in the tight-knit Fire Island community.
  • “It was so humiliating for me. I was like a hermit…I was so embarrassed, but also more embarrassed that I had been using names and no character was based on an actual person.” (25:08, Emma)

7. Leaving Media for Novelist Life (27:03–28:50)

• Why She Left:
  • Balancing editor-in-chief duties, motherhood, and writing became unsustainable. Company shifts toward event-based revenue diminished her editorial role and made full-time novelist contracts viable.
  • “If I had tried to stay another year, it would have been messy...and I would have been pushed out in a way that was acrimonious...so I’m happy to say goodbye.” (27:03, Emma)

8. The Persistence of Plan B (& C) (28:59–31:28)

• Future Worries:
  • Despite success, Emma regularly checks LinkedIn, always alert for “what if my books fail?”
  • “I look at [LinkedIn]. Why? Because what if my books fail?...I am on LinkedIn every day.” (29:56–30:05, Emma)
  • Cultural and familial roots for this drive: “You have to be prepared to flee and, like, take your matzah and go.” (30:56, Emma)

9. Working Motherhood, Emotional Labor, and Self-Perception (31:34–35:23)

• On Motherhood & Guilt: No guilt about being a working mom—feels the structure benefitted her children and herself.
  • “No, I don’t have guilt. There’s something like wrong with me a little bit. Like...Why would I feel guilty about providing them with a lovely life with a mom that like has a cool job?” (32:24, Emma)
• Division of Labor: Shares physical and emotional load with husband; relishes running the “mental spreadsheet” of her kids’ lives.

10. Satire as Social Commentary—And Fallout (36:08–38:10)

• On Satire & Realism:
  • Her novels satirize elite, privileged worlds—intentionally “punching up.” Emma is unbothered by whether her subjects are offended:
  • “It’s a satire of people whose lives are so beyond privileged…It’s hard for me ever to feel bad about poking fun.” (37:03, Emma)
• Resilience to Critique:
  • “I love how much you don’t give a shit.” (36:08, recounted by Emma)
  • Trained at New York magazine to be bold, unflinching, and snarky in social observation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making things happen despite rejection:
  “It’s so annoying that I am not in control of this process and that someone else can just say no.” (00:00, Emma)
• On health anxiety shifting with motherhood:
  “All of those worries have gone onto my children...It’s so freeing because I’m like, oh, I’m fine.” (15:16, Emma)
• On being flexible:
  “Be flexible. You are not going to find success in life if you are a rigid person who does not shift with the way that things are going.” (39:58, Emma)
• On not feeling working mom guilt:
  “I don’t have guilt. There’s something like wrong with me…Why would I feel guilty about providing them with a lovely life with a mom that has a cool job?” (32:24, Emma)
• On always having a backup plan:
  “If you are not thinking that your job is the next to go, you’re wrong.” (12:05, Emma)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:00 – Emma recounts rejection from a literary agent and the emotional aftermath.
• 02:34 – Growing up as an outsider, using humor as a survival tool.
• 06:23 – Emma’s childhood essay on hypochondria wins a major competition.
• 07:48 – The decline of the magazine industry and shock of structural change.
• 10:34 – How Emma’s mother’s resilience shaped her ability to adapt.
• 15:16 – Emma discusses health anxiety and family roots of her fears.
• 18:47 – The birth of “Bad Summer People”—writing as a side hustle.
• 25:08 – Manuscript leak drama and community fallout in Fire Island.
• 27:03 – Graceful exit from the corporate world for full-time writing.
• 29:56–30:56 – Emma’s readiness for worst-case scenarios and family philosophy.
• 32:24 – Honest discussion on motherhood and absence of guilt.
• 37:03 – Emma defends satire and the importance of “punching up.”
• 39:58 – Parting advice: the power of flexibility.

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Rapid Fire: Fun Personal Insights (38:28–39:58)

• Karaoke Song: “Unwritten” by Natasha Bedingfield
• Potluck Dish: “Anything Alison Roman”—specifically sweet pasta or potato salad
• Alternative Career: Surgeon ("If I was actually good at science...that's my fantasy.") (38:45)
• Reading Now: “Nothing. I never read. I haven't read a book since I had my first child...I consume so much media, but I just don't really read fiction at the moment.” (39:00)
• TV: Tennis documentaries and trying to sneak episodes of The Gilded Age
• Surprise Fact: Despite her calm, even-keel appearance, she’s full of “weird anxieties.” (39:44)

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Final Advice

“Be flexible. You are not going to find success in life if you are a rigid person who does not shift with the way that things are going. So be flexible. Always.”
(39:58, Emma Rosenblum)

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Tone and Takeaway:
The episode is marked by humor, honesty, and a sharp-eyed look at both professional and personal pivots. Emma Rosenblum’s career odyssey illustrates the virtues of resilience, self-awareness, and adaptability, while giving listeners permission to acknowledge—and work through—the “messy parts” of their own ambitions and anxieties.

Transcript

[Emma Rosenblum]

At that point, I had worked long enough on this thing where I thought, I'm gonna make this happen. I'm going to get this book published. Because otherwise it was just a waste of my time. And I was like, time is money. Like, I gotta at least get $5 for this thing. And he was like, I'm not into it. It's a little bit too, like, mean. And I was like, well, that's the point, but okay. And he sent it around to the rest of the lit department at his agency and, and he came back to me and he was like, it's just not really working. Like, it's not for us. I cry. Like, I didn't cry. I don't cry for like, I cry about other stuff, but like, work stuff doesn't really make me cry. But I was so disappointed and like, really felt like someone had was wrong. And I guess maybe that's that competitive thing where I was like, I think they're wrong. And it's so annoying that I am not in control of this process and that someone else can just say no.

[Podcast Host]

Today on the Messy Parts podcast, we're talking to Emma Rosenblum. She's a longtime editor in chief at places like Glamour, Elle, New York magazine and Bustle, to name just a few. Now she's a full time novelist writing books like Mean Moms. That's just out. You're going to want to hear this because it's an interesting journey of her always, always being someone who looks around the corner waiting for something not to work out. That is really the reason she's been able to PIV and have an incredibly successful career. Because underneath it all, there's a little bit of anxiety that we all can relate to. Emma, I couldn't be more excited to have you on the show. You and I had a chance sort of randomly to meet at a luncheon that was thrown, I think, by Google for women, where I thought we would start for the conversation was that, you know, one of the things I've noticed as we've done these interviews in the podcast is that a lot of people who are successful had something that they were overcoming. And I think back to my own story of having, you know, sort of left around in the middle of a revolution and sort of looking for belonging after having lost that. I look at your upbringing, right, what I know of it, anyway, having read about you, you grew up in Larchmont, you spent your summers in Saltaire and Fire island. Kind of an idyllic summer community, which I was fortunate enough to raise. My kids on. And your father was even the mayor. So it seems like kind of a perfect white picket fence upbringing. And I read that you say that you were really competitive and you always wanted to win. So where do you think that drive comes from?

[Emma Rosenblum]

That's a great question. And I think to your point about being an outsider, I was kind of always on the periphery of the popular group. I was like the funny sidekick. And I think for girls, particularly at that time, growing up, you had to be a certain way, look a certain way, and then you were popular and cool, and boys liked you. And I think for me, as someone who was, again, just kind of on the edge there, I found that being the one that was always making the jokes. And also, I was a really good writer, and I was able to craft my thoughts in a way that was really humorous from a very young age. And I found that that was, like, my best self, and that was what allowed me to kind of be in the worlds of, like, the cool kids, because I was, like, amusing. Not that I was, like, heinously ugly or anything. Like, that was fine, but, like. And I've aged like fine wine. I'm much better looking now than I was growing up. But, like, the idea that makes me.

[Podcast Host]

Like, want to ask you to see a picture, but. Okay, we'll come back to that.

[Emma Rosenblum]

I mean, I was cute. I was totally cute. It was more like my way of, I don't know, kind of, like being in the fray. And I think that as a person who's naturally more shy and, you know, would always kind of when we'd walk into parties, I'd push my, like, prettier friends in front of me and kind of hide behind them. To be that kind of, like, fly on the wall who was giving commentary to people and, like, making them laugh was always the way that I found I could, like, fit in. And I do think that that is still, to this day, like, my comfort area, which is writing. And writing kind of from behind the. You know, looking from an area into where the people that are either cool or rich or the ones that you want to be are kind of there, there. But, like, I still was on the corner of the room, and I still find that to be, like, where I am.

[Podcast Host]

That's interesting. You're making me think that one of the reasons I picked up a camera as a kid was because it did the exact same thing. Right. It gave me permission to be in the room, but it removed me.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Correct.

[Podcast Host]

But what do you think made you want to win?

[Emma Rosenblum]

I think I was born that way. I honestly think some people are just born where. And also as a middle child. So maybe that had something to do with it. It was a way to distinguish myself from, you know, the rest of my family and who are less competitive than I. I don't know. It just losing to me was very difficult. It still is. I would, every time I lost a tennis match, cry if someone got a better grade than I did. I would, like, stew on it and, like, really feel like. Right. And so I think that I was never going to be a professional sportsman. At the height of five, two and a half, I wanted to be the number one. And I don't know, it just was what has always driven me.

[Podcast Host]

Did you discover that you were a good writer early because you're competitive and you wanna win? And you're describing how you didn't lean into tennis, but you clearly leaned into writing?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes, and I did that because I knew that that was the thing that I was going to be easily the best at in my school or in college or whatever. I just always was able to write the way that I spoke. I look back at stuff that I wrote when I was a kid. It sounds exactly like my books. It's just the way that I express myself. It's almost easier for me to write than it is to speak and to be funny on a. You know, you had someone like Ana Gasteyer on, and she's just so funny right in the moment. And it takes me a little bit of a beat to think of that stuff. But, like, writing it is the perfect medium for me in that way. And when I was in seventh grade, I wrote an essay. It was about my hypochondria. It was like a funny essay about always thinking that I was dying. Which, again, thinking back, like, for a seventh grader, that's a weird essay to write, but my English teacher.

[Podcast Host]

Did you think you were dying?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes, I had hypochondria. I've since grown out of it mostly, but I really did. I thought I had cancer. I made my mom take me to the doctor. He was like, you don't. This is a callus. It's not a tumor. And so I wrote this essay. My. My teacher really loved it and submitted it to the Scholastic Writing Competition, and it won for, like, best humorous essay in my age group. And so I went down to D.C. and I read it out loud at the Library of Congress, and I was like, oh, I could just do this. This is something that I would know I would be good at. And I loved That I, like, won that award and the whole school knew. And I was like, I'm the funny winning writer lady. And then I just continued on in that way and got internships at magazines. And at the time, that was if you were wanting to be a writer who was funny at all, you went into magazines. It wasn't like people went into TV like they do now.

[Podcast Host]

And so you clearly had early success with writing, which must have felt good. You end up going to Tufts and then you enter the magazine world, first in New York Magazine, then Glamour, then Elle, then Bloomberg. And I think your final one was really at bustle. You know, the media business is in a really messy spot now.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And I think of a lot of people who. Who might be listening or thinking about, oh, my God, the glamour of the media business. Right. We sort of grew up watching that on tv. We still watch that. It's a really tough time to be in the media business.

[Emma Rosenblum]

It is. It wasn't when I first graduated from college, which is why I went into it, it was like glory days of magazines. The time when you would go on the subway and everybody would be reading a magazine. I'd see people reading my stuff in New York magazine in the subway. People don't read magazines anymore in the same way. Obviously. I was in there in the industry for about 20 years and just completely saw the total shift to digital and then just the total decline of the whole thing because the advertising market has disappeared. Everything's reliant on Google and Meta and basically it crashed. It's gone completely. Which has been such an interesting thing to witness. It's like I'm from the dinosaur age where we were rolling in money and then to go to basically, like zero and just completely losing money was quite a shock. I mean, it happened kind of slowly but surely, but then all of a sudden at once, and I must say, it was really depressing to see that this, like, vibrant, fun, as you said, kind of glamorous industry has just nosedived into nothing.

[Podcast Host]

You know, I also spent time in the media business, so I'm familiar with this story. While you were going through it, did you sort of begin to think about what else you would do?

[Emma Rosenblum]

I had been thinking about that for years, and not only because the industry had shifted so much, but also because it is an industry where you kind of top out at a certain point and there are very few jobs left and very few ways to make more money. And particularly as the industry kind of went down, I knew that I had kind of gotten in at A point where my salary was one thing. There was no way I was going to find a job that was gonna pay me the same or more. And I always want forward motion in my life and in my career. I'm the sort of, like, person dragging my husband along behind me. I'm just like, go, go, go. We have to make more and we have to do this. And it was quite scary to face a job market where I thought, I'm not gonna be able to do this, so what do I do? I looked into other industries where possibly they would hire like a chief content officer or someone needed a big storyteller at the top of their company. But as much as, like, that sounded good, it didn't really exist. And if it did, it was less than I wanted to make. So I was like, in a bit of a panic mode for a few years. Even at the top of Bustle Digital Group at that time, I was like, this is it. This is gonna be the last job that I can have in this industry, which was, you know, I think part of what I'm good at is like, pivoting. Instead of just freezing and saying, well, I guess we have to move to somewhere where we can afford to live and I have to change my whole life. I was like, I gotta figure something out.

[Podcast Host]

What do you think makes you good at pivoting?

[Emma Rosenblum]

I think my mom, to her credit, was always just like, onto the next, like, pick yourself up and go. If you are facing a challenge, there's no time for wallowing. No crying, no feeling bad for yourself. And that's like her very boomery, Irish Catholic, one of seven children. No one's gonna do this for you, so you have to do it yourself kind of mentality. I also think as I went along in my career as an observant person, I saw that the people that lost their jobs or couldn't hack it or weren't rising to the top were the people that froze and the people that didn't go with the flow when something big happened to the company. You get a new boss, there's layoffs. I saw that the people that were like, okay, this is the new direction. So this is the new direction. We want who kept their jobs and who continue to rise up. So I just tried to emulate that and say, how can I help this new direction?

[Podcast Host]

I think we live in a time of incredible disintermediation on lots of different fronts. And it is hard for people to pivot and to sort of look around corners the way you're describing, right I think about that. Cause I've done change and transformation at a lot of these jobs. People do freeze. I mean, you know, we like the familiar. And so you clearly have this ability to see the change coming and to try and plan ahead. Is there a lesson in that that we could give to people who are sort of experiencing that now?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Seeing the writing on the wall is harder than it seems. I think the denial aspect of heading into change is very deep for most people. For a lot of people, you gotta have a backup plan. And granted, the backup plan might not work either. But like, you have to always be thinking about that, particularly now. And I've been through enough change, particularly in the media industry, to now see that, like, if you are not thinking that your job is the next to go, you're wrong. And I know that's a scary mindset for people, but it just is the reality, you know, once you're in that position of not having something lined up or having at least even a thought of, like, what is the next thing? It's so much harder when you're going through a big tumultuous change to then focus on that.

[Podcast Host]

If you were starting out now, knowing all the things you know, what would you go into?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Great question. And one, I am so happy that I don't have to actually answer because I think about that and I worry. You know, I have kids and I'm like, what the heck are they gonna do? I mean, for me, I think I would probably lean in more to the writing side than I did the editing side. For so many years. I wasn't writing at all. I was editing and I was managing and I was putting together plans for staffing and all this stuff that goes along with being kind of a chief content officer type role. A boss. Exactly. And I would probably lean more into the writing side and maybe go into. You know, honestly, TV is a horrible industry right now too. So I. It's difficult to know. I definitely wouldn't go out of college and be like, I'm going to write a novel. Like, it's possible that now if I was graduating college, I would have tried to be adapter. Like, I don't know. It's a very uncertain world for creative industries right now. And I have always been focused on success in any form and whatever thing I'm doing. And I think I would find it hard to go into one of those industries right now, either sort of media or marketing or, you know, entertainment, and think there's a path, there's a clear path. I wouldn't know what to do.

[Podcast Host]

Since I'm an optimist, I'm gonna say that, you know, I too have kids. But if you're a creative, you're a creative, right? I mean, the choice for me would not have been to go be a doctor. I would have been a terrible doctor. What I notice is that there's just so many more avenues actually. People having side hustles and being content creators and figuring out different ways to test their creativity. They seem to have a different game plan with lots of optionality. In some ways. I don't know that the path to creativity is as clear as it was for us. Cause it was almost like a ladder you could climb. But I don't wanna leave people feeling like, oh, now go be a doctor.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Because no, listen. And I said to you I was a hypochondriac. I just know a lot about, like, disease. It was something I was actually interested in. It wasn't just like backup doctor. It wasn't just that I, you know, that's a steady whatever. And it's very difficult career and not steady. But I just am interested in the medical profession.

[Podcast Host]

So you mentioned your hypochondria. How did you work your way through that? And do you have any tips for people who are struggling with those kinds of things today?

[Emma Rosenblum]

I, growing up, had this health anxiety into college, into my early 20s, where anytime that there was like a big life shift, like going off to college or I was nervous about something or whatever, it wouldn't manifest as I am nervous about going to college, because that's a normal thing. It would manifest as, I think I have cancer or I'm having a heart attack. And I think it all, again, like, not to be too, like, we're on the therapist couch. But my dad's parents died very young. I didn't know them. And they were always this one had a heart attack and my grandmother had early breast cancer. And I think growing up there was always this kind of mysterious, like, you could just die. And I think I was worried about that. And I grew up in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't something where people, like, talked about it as much as I think they would now. So I would go through these periods where I was you. I would be dizzy all the time because I thought I had a brain tumor. And obviously it was just generalized anxiety. But at the time, I was so convinced that it was a brain tumor that I would go get an mri, like, you know, and my mom reluctantly would be like, you know, because she never thought I had a brain tumor and I didn't. And I think into my 20s and 30s, 30s, it was still kind of latently there. I will say as soon as I had my children, it completely disappeared. Like I have not been worried about anything about myself. All of those worries have gone onto my children. I catastrophize their flus and their, you know, as, by the way, a lot of mothers do. This is not an abnormal thing to be very worried about your child's health and well being though. I think I have. Maybe it's a little bit more extreme than it needs to be, but it kind of jumped there and I don't worry really about much else and the worry about myself. It's so freeing because I'm like, oh, I'm fine.

[Podcast Host]

When you go into that spiral, I mean, what you're describing is general anxiety, which I would say we all have. Are there tips or tricks to figure out how to get out of that moment? Right. Because it can become debilitating.

[Emma Rosenblum]

I'm very lucky in that I married a person who doesn't even. I mean, he's British and I don't think he's been to a doctor in 10 years. He needs to go to a doctor and just get a checkup. But like the idea that you would be so concerned about this is like the most anti British thing ever. Like they don't go to the doctor unless their arm is hanging off. Like, it's not what he worries about. He worries about other things. He's convinced we're gonna be homeless. And I'm like, how we both have great jobs, but it's like again, people have their things that they really focus on and catastrophize. But mine is health. And it's to be in a partnership with someone who is so not concerned to the point where I'm like, sometimes we need to be a little concerned. Is very helpful. For me, a big reason that our partnership works and I was drawn to him was that he was like, you need to not be spiraling.

[Podcast Host]

So I'm going to summarize your tip, which is marry someone who's the opposite of you.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Marry a British person. They have great accents and they hate the United States health care system. That has helped me and I think having children really helped, really helped.

[Podcast Host]

So it's so interesting because the way you described your childhood, somebody sort of on the side. It makes sense that you write the kind of novels that you write kind of in the vein of Jane Austen, sort of social commentary. So talk a little bit about your first book, because it's not like you actually quit your job and started writing. You actually did it in the way millennials do, like, as a side hustle.

[Emma Rosenblum]

It wasn't a hustle in that I wasn't trying to go off and make a little extra money here and there. Like, it was actually born of what I was talking about before having really known that my real strength above all else was writing, and particularly like a kind of humorous writing. And I hadn't been doing it at all. And it was also right at that point where I was thinking, this is going to end, you know, I'm not going to have a job in three years. There's just no way. So I was like, well, maybe if I just try this while I have this other job, we'll see. And like, if. If I can do it, great. And if I can, I'm gonna figure something else out, whatever. And so I started writing Bad Summer People while I had my other job. It was also 2021 and we were fully working from home. It was easier for me to have those pockets of time where I was like, oh, I'll write a few hundred words, I'll write a thousand words. And I crafted a chapter. And I'd never written fiction before. I was always nonfiction or essays. I was like, okay, I could just keep doing this. Like, I just did it for so long, three or four months, and I had a fully done book at that point, and I thought, okay, well, maybe I'll start sending it out. And again, still doing my job, not really thinking anything would come from it.

[Podcast Host]

So you actually wrote the full book and then started looking for.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes, you have to do that with fiction. You can't just send like a chapter or two chapters. And I didn't have an agent yet for a debut fiction. You need a full manuscript. And I knew how many words it was supposed to be. That was basically the extent of the research that I had done. I was like, okay, 80,000 words. Someone had mentioned to me once, like, why don't you just try to write a beach read? Because other books are harder to write and read some beach reads that year. And I was like, maybe these are not very good. Particularly because my prose, it's not like I'm a writer where I'm like, dying over every sentence. And, like, it's more propulsive, funny, plot driven books. And so I was able to get through quickly. And I thought, this is probably better than some other beach reads out there. And people seemed to be buying those beach reads that I Didn't think were great. And there wasn't really a beach read in the same vein as mine, which was, you know, it wasn't romance, it wasn't women's general fiction, like a family drama. It had a murder in it. And it was kind of sharp, a little bit biting. And there was some snark in there and some, you know, it was just a bit of a harsher beach read. But I was like, that's what I like to read, so maybe I can write that. So, yeah, I had a manuscript and I started sending it around. I had an agent that I had spoken to a number of times about doing a nonfiction project, because every magazine editor has like a, you know, a nonfiction book in the works that never happens. And he was lovely and it wasn't for him. And, you know, you want to talk about messy parts of careers, like, at that point, I had worked long enough on this thing where I thought, I'm going to make this happen. I'm going to get this book published. Because otherwise it was just a waste of my time. And I was like, time is money. I gotta at least, like, get $5 for this thing. And he was like, I'm not into it. It's a little bit too, like, mean. And I was like, well, that's the point, but okay. And he sent it around to the rest of the lit department at his agency, and he came back to me and he was like, it's just not really working. Like, it's not for us. And I cry. Like, I didn't cry. I don't cry for, like, I cry about other stuff, but, like, work stuff doesn't really make me cry. But I was so disappointed and really felt like someone was wrong. And I guess maybe that's that competitive thing where I was like, I think they're wrong. And it's so annoying that I am not in control of this process and that someone else can just say no. And so then I put it down for like a week. And then that feeling kind of like, was festering. And I was like, well, I don't need to use them. Like, there's tons of different agencies I can send it around. And I came upon this woman at caa, Alexandra Machinist, who reps Kevin Kwan and Lucy Foley and a bunch of commercial fiction writers that have similar, like, vein to my books. And I sent it to her.

[Podcast Host]

Kevin who wrote Crazy Rich Asians?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes. And she immediately wrote me back. I mean, the lucky thing was, and this is another thing, my job in media really only opened Doors. And I would never deny that for my career as a novelist, agents would write me back because I had a big job in media, and bustle covers books. Like, it's not like I was outside of the industry entirely. Granted, if my book sucked, I don't think they would have said, sure, I'm going to try to sell it. And they're very busy people and they don't waste their time. But I definitely got my foot in the door. Alexandra wrote me back and she said, I'll take a read. Like, thanks for sending. And then agents obviously take forever. I still can't get her to answer my emails. Just kidding, Alexandra. Occasionally you do. And she wrote me back like, six weeks later. And she was like, I love this book. I'm gonna sell it. Can I sell it right now? And this is not the process that usually happens with an agent. They come back with notes. They want you to redo stuff. They are like, well, maybe in six months we'll send it out in the. Just do a feel. This is also a debut book. So it's a whole thing where a lot of times nobody buys these books. And she was like, I'm going to send it out next week. I think we're going to sell it. And I was like, okay. Like, I had no idea how the process usually worked. And she sent it out and we got a big offer and we took it.

[Podcast Host]

That book was actually about the community in some ways, that you grew up in, in Saltaire and Fire island, kind of an idyllic little part of Long Island. And I read the manuscript, somehow made its way into the community before the book came out. And that there was a whole hubaloo about that in a very small community where, you know your neighbors are like five feet away from you.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yeah, it was a drama. Part of that process of sending it out wide to the entertainment industry. Someone knew someone who had a house in Saltaire and sent it to them. And in that original manuscript, I had placeholder names of actual people in the town. And I didn't know that that manuscript was going anywhere other than my editor. Like, I was so shocked. Again, I just didn't know what the process was.

[Podcast Host]

Talk about messy.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yeah, exactly. I was like, there are typos in there. Like, I would. How did the whole entertainment industry read this thing where I hadn't even edited it? I was so embarrassed, but also more embarrassed that I had been using names and no character was based on an actual person. But it was easier for me to put in real names to, like, picture Just at least the way people, like, looked. And there's just like archetypes within that town, as there are in any small town of like, the woman with the iron fist who runs the tennis program. Like the town gossip. Like every town has that. But obviously in salt air, they were those people and they read it with their name in it. So it was quite something.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, there's. Let's just try and paint a picture tiny town that you have to get to on a ferry. So, like, there's no avoiding anybody. Only one store and one place to eat out, which is the yacht club. Yes. So that had to have been incredibly difficult running into the pub.

[Emma Rosenblum]

It was the summer before it came out, so it was still a whole year away from pub. And it was so humiliating for me. I was like a hermit. I, like, never left the house. My parents were so mad at me, but they forgave me. And again, I live a very privileged life. So it wasn't. It's not a revolution. Right. It was like people were giving me dirty looks at the yacht club. Okay. I survived. Then the next summer came out, and it was very funny, the turnaround, because I think people were sort of hoping it was like not going to do well or a fl. I think there was some schadenfreude of like wanting bad things for me in a certain way. And then it did do really well. So then the turnaround of everyone being like, we loved it the whole time. Congrats. Like our, like, famous author in our little town. Like, people now love it.

[Podcast Host]

I read it and loved it. So congratulations. So tell me about sort of then deciding to leave and do this full time. Cause that's also not an easy decision.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Once that book did well, I had a contract for a second book. So I wrote my second book while I was still at my job. It became increasingly difficult to focus on both of those things at once. And also, as you said, I have kids and I can't spend every minute of the day working, particularly weekends. I don't like to work. I would want to be with my kids. And also at the same time, the company was definitely going through changes. Less focus on editorial, more focus on event driven revenue, which is not my thing. And it just became clear that they kind of didn't need my position at all. At the same time where I was negotiating a contract for Mean Moms and my fourth book. Honestly, I know that this is supposed to be about messy. It was the least messy it could be if I had tried to stay another year. It would have been messy and I would have been pushed out in a way that was acrimonious. The company needed my salary back, honestly, and I wanted to give it because I could not give my full self for my job. And also just the way that it was pivoting, not that I couldn't have done it in an earlier time in my career, but I had this other thing and I was like, you know what, I don't actually even want to, so I'm happy to say goodbye. And it was a very nice way to go because having been in media, I have seen very not nice ways. People getting really pushed out and the rug getting pulled out from under them and surprise and sadness. I was so sad. But also it was like the natural progression. And also for me personally, knowing that I had these two year long contracts for my books just in terms of my life planning and financial planning, I was like, okay, I can do this because I have these contracts. It wasn't something where I was just jumping off a cliff with nothing. So I felt okay about it.

[Podcast Host]

So now you've landed on your novelist, you're home writing books, you've left that world of media that you were in before. What's your plan B and plan C?

[Emma Rosenblum]

That is such a good question. Because I'm still thinking about that particularly, you know, as the books come out, I'm like, okay, well if this one's not a bestseller and the next one's not a bestseller, I will continue to get less money for my advances. So then what do I do? My plan would be to try to get into screenwriting or TV writing, or continue to write novels that maybe weren't selling as much, but then also trying to transition them to TV stuff. Like it would be to go in that entertainment direction.

[Podcast Host]

Another very difficult business I just want to point out.

[Emma Rosenblum]

I know, but I feel like that would be for me because like right now, media is dead. I'm not going back to media. I think it would be hard for any company to be fully invested in giving me a job right now because obviously I have this full time novelist thing that it's very visible and that's my job. Though I have thought that I'm like, I could get another full time job. My agent's like, no, you can't. You need to finish your books. I'm always thinking about it. I am on LinkedIn every day.

[Podcast Host]

What?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes, I look at it. Why? Because what if my books fail?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you mean you look at it to see if there's a job that.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Would Tempt you or, like, what exists. Right. It's like, I don't want to be so far out of corporate America that, like, all of a sudden these bomb. And then I'm like, what do I do now?

[Podcast Host]

So I know what causes me to have the plan B in plan C, right? I mean, it actually happened like we left overnight. What causes that for you? Because I see that it's like a 247 thing for you, too.

[Emma Rosenblum]

I don't know. I think it's that feeling of, like, not wanting to be left surprised and without anything, without a job and without. I've always worked, and even now I don't feel like being a novelist is work in the same way that I worked. And so I still feel like I have this weird fake job at this moment, which is causing me, you know, generalized anxiety, I guess, which you actually.

[Podcast Host]

Manifest by spending time on LinkedIn.

[Emma Rosenblum]

No. Yes. LinkedIn Street. Easy. I'm like, how much could we sell our apartment for? Where would we move? Like, do we have to go back to England? I mean, listen, this is. Who knows? But as my dad always says, like, you know, Jews are always running from something. Like, something bad is going to happen. So you have to be prepared to flee and, like, take your matzah and go. And, you know, my mom is not Jewish, so she doesn't quite have that thing. But, like, I think there's a feeling of you have to be prepared for the worst thing to happen so that, you know. Cause it could.

[Podcast Host]

Let's go back to you talking about being a mom. I read somewhere that you said the kids knew to call the nanny and not you.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Not anymore. Now I'm home all day, every day, writing my books.

[Podcast Host]

It's hysterical. So talk a little bit about being a working mom. Right. I mean, I, too, would never have survived without the help of a nanny during the week and even one on the weekend so that I could actually have some time to do something else. What was that like?

[Emma Rosenblum]

It felt to me fine. I never felt like this was the wrong thing to do. I also felt like I saw my kids enough. Like, I was lucky enough where I didn't have a job, where I had to travel a lot. I have friends who have that, and that's very difficult. I was in media, so I was. Yeah, I was working every day and sometimes quite late and having to go to events and stuff, but I was there every night for them. I was there in the morning every day for them. And then during the day, I mean, I don't know, like, I Don't think it would have been the right thing for me to be home with them anymore.

[Podcast Host]

Mommy guilt?

[Emma Rosenblum]

No, I don't have guilt. I. There's something like wrong with me a little bit. Like, I don't know, my sister's just always like, you're a sociopath. I'm like, I'm not. I don't feel. Why would I feel guilty about providing them with a lovely life with a mom that like has a cool job? They're very happy, well adjusted little boys and we have tons of family in the area. And I mean, granted, who knows, in 10 years they could be talking to a therapist about how their mommy was never there. I have no idea. But I honestly don't think that my career has impacted my mothering negatively. And if anything, I think it allows me to, when I'm with them, feel more focused on them.

[Podcast Host]

Your latest book, hold on, I'm going to show it. Mean Moms is in fact about moms at a school, at a privileged school in New York. So again, a world. You know, having raised two kids myself here in New York, in the world of private schools, I'm familiar with the experience, but definitely there weren't always lots of working moms in these worlds. Right? And there was definitely still not. Still not. I also don't think I had that guilt. It's kind of like you're describing. I was like, well, I mean, you got to come to Premier London Westro and meet Shakira. Like that doesn't just happen. But nonetheless, it was a juggle.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Oh, it's definitely a juggle. I have always worked and I do think, you know, in the circles that we're in, in New York City, that's not always the case. I worked full time, so a lot of women host kids, particularly in New York. Particularly if you have enough money or lucky enough to have enough money, you can have it be more of a freelance situation or, you know, a part time situation. And I don't have that. And also, I don't think, you know, my job is so fun and creative. Like, it wasn't like I really wanted that either. But yeah, it's a juggle. It's like I'm doing a lot at once. Not only am I keeping all these plot points in my head and like doing PR stuff for my books and thinking about what is the next one gonna be and trying to pitch out freelance articles, I'm like, I have my kids, everything is in my head about their lives. My husband and I are very split. I would say with hands on time. Not like during the week. I would say particularly because now that I fully am working at home, like, I'm everywhere for them during the week, but during the weekends it's like he is on it, you know, and I can relax and he plays with them and is just honestly so focused on them in a very nice way. But the, you know, and every article is written about this, but just all the emotional labor and all the planning and everything is on me. And maybe that's what kind of allows me to not feel the guilt. Cause I'm like, I do everything for them in a great way. And I love organizing their lives and knowing exactly where they are at every minute of the day and coordinating with the nanny about all their after school stuff and all the doctor stuff and the dentist and the orthodontist now and the camp stuff and everything that you have to keep track of and their clothes and their. I mean, the list is endless.

[Podcast Host]

I never really had guilt about it. I always thought I would actually be a terrible sibling because I would just be all over them and make them crazy. It was just kind of how it was built. Which sounds like similar for you.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes. And I do know a lot of women that actually do have lots of resentments that they are fully in charge of those things, and I do not.

[Podcast Host]

So let's talk a little bit about mean moms. Right. So you actually just had it come out?

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes, this week.

[Podcast Host]

I'm curious to know what that experience is like, because here's another world in which you actually are a part of. Right. You have your kids going to private school. You've written about a private school. In this case, the manuscript did not leak out with the names of the people in it. So it seems like you were spared that messy part. What's it like? Right. Because there must be people who wonder if they're a character in the book.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Yes. So we'll see more in September when everyone's back in school. I actually see some of the moms again. I specifically set this book downtown. I live uptown so I could avoid that as much as possible of people thinking I would never set it at the kind of school that my kids go to. They go to an all boys school in the Upper East. That's not the kind of school that I wrote about. Certainly there will be people who see themselves in these characters because it's a satire. It's based on the world today and the world that New York City is today. And when my first book came out, a friend of mine in Salt air in Fire island wrote me a funny note, like a congratulatory note with a little gift. And her note said, like, I love how much you don't give a shit. And I think that's sort of me also. I don't care if people are mad or don't like me or are like, ooh, she wrote a book about this. It's like, whatever.

[Podcast Host]

Did you care when you were younger?

[Emma Rosenblum]

No. I mean, I was trained at New York magazine. I was there for eight years. And it was the time when it was very snarky and very, like, you know, let's see how people can hang themselves with their dumb quotes about their rich lives. For years. That was kind of what we were after and the kind of stories that we wrote. And it was funny and it was juicy. And also, it's always. And my books are this way too, punching up. It's a satire of people whose lives are so beyond privileged that it's hard for me ever to feel bad about poking fun. Because I'm sorry. Like, you have so much money that it's okay for me to be like. And you should also have a good sense of humor about the fact that sometimes they don't. That I'm kind of needling the lifestyle a little bit. And the lack of self awareness sometimes, to me, is very funny. But also, I like calling it out because, like, come on, guys. There are people who are not, you know, stressing about whether they should do three private lessons for their kid or two. And that's most people in the world. And so, like, you can take it.

[Podcast Host]

I will say I loved Mean Moms.

[Emma Rosenblum]

Oh, thank you.

[Podcast Host]

And by the way, I just want to say I did play the which school is it? Game in my head.

[Emma Rosenblum]

What did you land on?

[Podcast Host]

No, I'm not going to say, but I did play that game in my head. Okay, so we're going to do rapid fire. What would be your karaoke or walk.

[Emma Rosenblum]

On song Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield?

[Podcast Host]

A food you'd bring to the potluck. How about the barbecue in Fire Island? Because they do a potluck on the beach.

[Emma Rosenblum]

I love a sweet pasta salad or a potato salad. Anything. Allison Roman.

[Podcast Host]

I would do an alternative career, maybe a doctor. Did I already sort of ask you that question, Doctor?

[Emma Rosenblum]

If I was actually good at science, and I'm not. So, yes, that's my fantasy, is to be a surgeon.

[Podcast Host]

What are you reading, listening, or watching right now?

[Emma Rosenblum]

This question is going to make people mad, because people always get mad when I say this. I am reading nothing. I never read.

[Podcast Host]

That's not possible.

[Emma Rosenblum]

It's true. I don't read any books. I haven't read a book since I had my first child. I read a lot of articles. I consume so much media, but I just don't really read fiction at the moment. But I also think it messes with my head because I'm trying at every moment of the day to think about my fiction book that I am way late on deadline for. So it's not like the right mindset for me to enjoy someone else's writing, if that makes sense. But I am watching. We just watched the Carlos Alcaraz documentary. We watch a lot of tennis content in my home because my husband is very into tennis and he does not allow me to watch TV without him. I'm always trying to get him to go to bed so that I can finally finish the Gilded Age.

[Podcast Host]

What would people be surprised to learn about you?

[Emma Rosenblum]

I appear very even keel and calm. I have a lot of weird anxieties.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I mean, okay, because you did say you were hypochondriac as a kid. Finally, one piece of advice that you would leave everyone with.

[Emma Rosenblum]

What we were talking about before. Be flexible. You are not going to find success in life if you are a rigid person who does not shift with the way that things are going. So be flexible. Always.

[Podcast Host]

Emma, I have loved having you on. I love the book, you know, it's so. I love a good satire. I can see the movie or the TV show already. I mean, you kind of write for that. No wonder you like the Gilded Age, which also is amazing.