Paper Magazine’s Kim Hastreiter Wasn’t Satisfied. So She Built Her Own Amazing World.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Messy Parts

Episode: Paper Magazine’s Kim Hastreiter Wasn’t Satisfied. So She Built Her Own Amazing World

Host: Maryam Banikarim
Guest: Kim Hastreiter (Founder of Paper Magazine)
Date: March 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Kim Hastreiter, co-founder of the iconic downtown culture publication, Paper Magazine. Known for her unique community-building and visionary spirit, Kim dives into her nonlinear creative journey—from suburban New Jersey kid to downtown New York icon—and unpacks how anger, rejection, and an insatiable hunger for inspiration shaped her career, her values, and ultimately, her legacy. Maryam and Kim discuss what it means to have a “gift,” the value of non-transactional relationships, lessons from the AIDS crisis, and building a life and business outside conventional boundaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kim’s Early Life and Family Influence

• New Jersey Upbringing, Early Influences (01:55)
  • Kim grew up in suburban West Orange, NJ in the 1950s, with an “amazing” family where her mother was “a big reader,” loved art, and had impeccable taste. This environment fed Kim’s eye for aesthetics, though she didn’t consider herself “arty” as a child.
  • Her dad was a jeweler, and her mom designed for their small earring company (02:48).
  • “My mother was a big reader... she loved art. She was kind of stuck because it was the 1950s... She was really smart. She was intellectual... She knew about fashion because her mother had a dress store that only sold Claire McCardell.” (02:09–02:36)

Creative Awakening and the Radical Years

• College and Artistic Transformation (03:30–07:15)
  • Initially attended Washington University in St. Louis, but the upheaval of the late '60s pushed her to explore and eventually transfer to an avant-garde art school in Nova Scotia.
  • During summers, Kim pursued creative odd jobs, e.g., helping build the experimental city Arcosanti in Arizona.
    • “I would just get on trains and go places by myself. And then I went to Nova Scotia...” (05:25)
  • Emphasis on her mother’s encouragement to pursue art, Europe travels, and Nova Scotia’s radical arts environment.
  • “My mother was like, good. Be an artist. She loved it.” (04:48)

Early New York: Rejection, Anger, and DIY

• Navigating Sexism and Early Rejections (09:43–11:53)
  • Despite mentorship from art luminaries, Kim experienced sexism—“not one of the women... got into a gallery. It was only the boys.” (09:43)
  • Her response to rejection: “I just get mad. And then, because I have a vision in my mind, I am very stubborn... when I see something in my mind and no one sees it, it drives me fucking crazy.” (00:09, repeated at 11:40)
  • Developed a strong DIY ethic: “I spent my whole life and my whole career DIY. I did everything myself.” (11:54)

Building Community and Collecting People

• From Salesgirl to Paper: Key Relationships and Scene Building (12:49–20:21)
  • Early days selling avant-garde clothes, meeting Joey Arias, Bill Cunningham (who photographed her), and befriending notable creatives.
  • Soho's evolution, buying her first loft, and using a small inheritance to put down roots that enabled her creative autonomy.
  • Notable Moment: Stories of being photographed by Bill Cunningham and mingling with downtown legends, e.g., “Joey got the first job at Fiorucci... I had this whole crowd of friends around Joey... and then the Mud Club happened.” (12:49)
  • “I only, like, spend time with people that I think are contributing something. Life is short... I’m stricter than ever about how I spend my time.” (20:21)
  • “No mediocrity in your life... can’t have any mediocrity... everything you buy has to be incredible.” (20:28)

The Birth and Ethos of Paper Magazine

• From Soho News Fallout to Founding Paper (17:19–26:27)

  • Post-Soho News, Kim tried corporate media (Conde Nast), but ultimately hated the stifling environment.
  • Kim and co-founder David Hershkovitz struggled to explain their vision to potential investors—industry gatekeepers didn’t understand a media product that mixed genres and resisted labels.
    • “Is it a music magazine?... Is it an art magazine?... Is it a fashion magazine?... It doesn’t exist!” (24:54–25:05)
  • Original Paper Magazine launch: started as a poster, each founder contributed $1,000, embraced improvisation and resourcefulness (25:07–26:05).

• Philosophy:

  • “We weren’t really journalists... everything is converging. The artists would do something with Debbie Harry... everything was mixing up. That was just a really important part of the culture we wanted to represent in Paper.” (26:27)

Lessons in Community, Crisis, and Resilience

• AIDS Epidemic & Cultural Impact (27:01–29:13)

  • Paper embedded itself in real community life, helping mobilize support and awareness during the AIDS crisis—hosting fundraisers and supporting people rejected by traditional institutions.
  • “We treat famous people like nobodies and nobodies like somebodies. I go for talent, whether you’re famous or not.” (31:28)

• Cultural PTSD and Reinvention (29:13–34:27)

  • Connections drawn between trauma from AIDS, 9/11, and Covid.
  • “Art is really important and... you have to try and figure out how your gift can help lift people up.” (30:09)
  • On selling Paper and loss of identity:
    • “I sold Paper the week my mother died... I was not happy at Paper because it was just not fun anymore... The Internet became more about counting people and celebrity, and I am not into celebrities.” (30:34–31:14)

Living Non-Transactionally & Legacy

• Relationship Principles & Collecting People (34:49–36:13)

  • “I find amazing people and then I want them to meet other amazing people... I love to know who they think are jewels... No transactional relations.” (35:03–35:45)
  • As she’s aged, she’s grown even stricter: “When you get older, past 60 or now I’m 74. Like, no, no. I won’t even have lunch with someone I think is [not amazing].” (36:01)

• On Teaching & Passing Wisdom:

  • “When you get old, you... have all this really good stuff. I just want to get it out before I die and teach people, give people what I have, what I’ve accumulated.” (36:49)

Practical Career and Life Advice (Rapid Fire, 37:03–38:33)

• What would you tell someone to do before 35?
  • “Buy an apartment. I don’t care if it’s in Flushing... get something you own.” (37:22)
• Career myth that’s a waste of time?
  • “Anything that’s money driven.” (37:41)
• Advice for a crisis of confidence:
  • “Find your gift... what are you better at than the next guy?... Lean into it and build around it.” (37:46)
• On cynicism:
  • “I try and help people.” (34:49)
• On AI:
  • “It’s like a slow motion car crash. You see something that you know is going to be horrible and destructive, but people don’t see that. I can predict things early.” (34:30)
• Final “walk-on” song choice:
  • “David Byrne or Pink Martini.” (38:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On rejection and creative anger:
  “I just get mad. And then, because I have a vision in my mind, and I am very stubborn... when I see something in my mind and no one sees it, it drives me fucking crazy.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (00:09, repeated at 11:40)

• On following happiness over money:
  “You have to prioritize your happiness, not money.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (09:08)

• On non-transactional relationships:
  “No transactional relations. Totally.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (35:44)

• On finding your calling:
  “Find your gift... every single person is born with a gift. If you can figure out your gift—what are you better at than the next guy?—lean into it and build around it.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (37:46)

• On teaching and legacy:
  “When you get old, you have all this stuff in your brain. I have all this really good stuff. I just want to get it out before I die and teach people, give people what I have, what I’ve accumulated.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (36:49)

• On Paper’s philosophy:
  “We treat famous people like nobodies, and nobodies like somebodies. I go for talent, whether you’re famous or not.”
  — Kim Hastreiter (31:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:55: Kim’s early family and suburban childhood
• 03:30–07:15: College, art school, and radical 1960s influences
• 09:08–11:38: On money, happiness, and art world rejection
• 12:49–15:47: DIY ethos, early NYC days, building community
• 17:19–19:57: Bill Cunningham, Soho news, key relationships
• 23:34–26:05: Post-Soho News, navigating media, launching Paper
• 27:01–29:13: Community-building during the AIDS epidemic
• 30:34–32:27: Selling Paper, losing identity, and what’s next
• 34:15–36:13: Non-transactional relationships and collecting people
• 37:03–38:33: Rapid fire advice and final thoughts

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Thematic Takeaways

• Anger and rejection can be creative fuel.
• Prioritize happiness and purpose over money.
• Surround yourself with inspiring people; share generously; avoid mediocrity and transactionalism.
• Creative paths are messy, nonlinear, and defined by adaptability.
• Every person has a unique gift; discovering and cultivating it is life’s central work.
• Communities, forged in crisis and camaraderie, are the heart of enduring creative legacies.

Transcript

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, so just the anger of, like, going to New York and getting rejected, which I'm always getting rejected. I've gotten rejected, like, every.

[Podcast Host]

And you don't take it personally?

[Kim Hastreiter]

No, I just get mad. And then because I have a vision in my mind and I am very stubborn, and when I see something in my mind and no one sees it, it drives me fucking crazy.

[Podcast Host]

So you're determined to make it happen? Yeah.

[Kim Hastreiter]

I will do anything to make it happen. And if you won't help me, fuck you. I will do it. My foreign.

[Podcast Host]

The messy parts we're going to have on Kim Hastrider. You'll know her as the founder of Paper magazine, an iconic downtown culture magazine. But really, she's an artist. She started off as an artist, and she's an artist of sort of an expansive type. The kind that collects friends stuff and all kinds of ideas. She's lived through many things. The AIDS epidemic and, of course, the pandemic. And what's amazing about her is that she continues to want to help and inspire despite having seen so many things and feeling a little bit bleak about the world today. So, Kim, I'm so excited to have you on. You and I got to meet through Ikram, the amazing Ikram of Chicago. And the minute we met, we sort of had this moment of how is it that we haven't met before? Because we share Michael Francis, the OG CMO demo of Target, when many other people also. Yeah, and many other people. But we sort of had a love of, like, those early days of Target and all the stuff they did, which makes sense. So I'm so excited to jump into the story with you. You've given a lot of interviews and that you have a lot of stories and a lot of stuff. But I wanted to go back to sort of young Kim growing up in New Jersey. Like, just take me a little bit back to who you were before the icon that you became.

[Kim Hastreiter]

I mean, I was. I just had, like, a wonderful. An amazing mother, an amazing grandma. I had amazing fam. You know, parents. I just was, like a suburban kid in New Jersey, you know, like, normal. I wasn't arty. I wasn't.

[Podcast Host]

I.

[Kim Hastreiter]

You know, like, my mother was a big reader. She was a big, like. Like, she always. She loved art, and she was kind of, like, stuck because it was in the 1950s when I was born. And, you know, she. She was really smart. She was intellectual. She was the art. She loved art. She collected art. She was kind of, like, had really good taste. She knew about fashion because her mother had Like a dress store that only sold Claire McCardell, who was like, my favorite designer. She was like the best American designer.

[Podcast Host]

So you sort of grew up around art and design?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah, just from my mother. But they lived in the suburbs because that's where they thought they should live when they had kids.

[Podcast Host]

And your dad?

[Kim Hastreiter]

My dad was a jeweler and his grand. His father was a jeweler and had a little. They had a jewelry store in Newark, New Jersey. So he had the store and then they started a little earring company that was named after me and my sister. It was called Carrie. It kind of did well. And my mom did all the designing, but it was, like, not really fabulous.

[Podcast Host]

But you say you weren't an arty kid.

[Kim Hastreiter]

My mom always, like, read the New Yorker and, like, we always had. It wasn't fashion, it was more like the New Yorker. Culture. Yeah, culture. And so. And she always knew, like, the hot restaurant in New York. And they would go into the city because we were only a half hour out of the city, so.

[Podcast Host]

In Orange.

[Kim Hastreiter]

In West Orange.

[Podcast Host]

In West Orange, yeah. And so what made you decide to go to art school?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, I didn't go to art school at first. I went to Washington University. In St. Louis.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Kim Hastreiter]

So that's where I got in. And I didn't know, you know, when you're that age, what is it? Was I 19 or something? You don't know anything. So I went there and I took normal classes and I. Ooh. I just didn't love it. And I. Then I was kind of like. It was 1969. Okay. So that was like the big year of, like, when Kent State happened in Vietnam. And it was like a huge upheaval in America. My friends were all getting arrested. I mean, it was crazy. In 1969. And so I went to college, like, in September, dressed in villager outfits with little circle pins. And my parents came to see me in St. Louis, like, four months later. And I was wearing, like, hiking boots and, like, a floor length Indian shmata. And, like, I was a hippie. I became a complete hippie. Smoking pot, taking, you know, mushrooms. I was loved. Psychedelic.

[Podcast Host]

What was their reaction to that?

[Kim Hastreiter]

I think my parents were shocked when they saw me, what I looked like. But they were, you know, they were liberal. My parents were liberals. I mean, my mother worked for Eugene McCarthy. It was like, all that. They were very liberal.

[Podcast Host]

So how do you then get to art school in California?

[Kim Hastreiter]

So then I was at Washington University, and it was like, ew. But I kept going down the hill. They had this Art school. And that's where all the interesting people were, and that's where I met people. So then I realized I was reading, like, started reading art magazines. I remember I was reading Art Forum. And first I like, said, I think I want to transfer to the art school in Washington University with my mother's blessing. She was like, good. Be an artist. She loved it. So I learned ceramics, I did painting, I did all that stuff drawing. But it was really a classical art school. And I started reading about Art Forum, all the avant garde things in New York. And I found out about this school in Nova Scotia, Canada, that was completely, like, radical. And it was called Nova Scotia College of Art and Design. And people who are in the art world who are of a certain age will remember it was like the best art school that ever existed. I remember I told my mom that I. I said, I think I want to transfer to go here, but I want to take a year off and go to. I wanted to travel. And then those days, you could buy a Ural pass for a thousand dollars, and then you would never need a hotel. You could just get on a train and travel anywhere. I bought a Eurail pass and I went to Europe and I went to Morocco. I went to all. All these different places. I would just get on trains and go places all by myself, you know? And then I went to Nova Scotia, and that was like a whole. I went all by myself. I bought a pickup truck. And before Nova Scotia, when I was in high school and when I was in college, my mother would always find these crazy things for me to do during the summer. The best one that she found, right when I was still in St. Louis, and I think it was before I went to Europe. But she was like, okay, this summer, you can either work for Daddy in Newark, New Jersey, at the jewelry store, or you could work for this architect named Palace o', Leary, who's building the City of the Future in the desert in Arizona. So I was always like, okay, I'll go to. I'll work there.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'd go to Arizona, too.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. Do you know who Palace o' Leary was?

[Podcast Host]

I don't.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Okay, well, Google him, because he was building, like, a crazy city in the middle of the Sonoran Desert. He was this Italian architect. It was called Arco Santi. This was in 1970s, and I was one of the first people. I finished one of the first building. And you would do construction in the desert in the summer. I mean, you sleep outside. It was outrageous.

[Podcast Host]

So how do you get to John Baldur's? Story in L. A.

[Kim Hastreiter]

So then I went to Nova Scotia after all this, after Europe and everything. And that was the year I was in Nova Scotia, the year of Watergate. So I remember it was the year that Nixon was impeached, because that was.

[Podcast Host]

That'd be memorable.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. And Vietnam. I mean, it was. But I was in Canada. These people started this school in Canada because Canada wasn't involved in the war. So this group of art students from Ohio University all got together when they were about to graduate and said, what are we going to do? And so one of them was Canadian, said, oh, the Canadian government has all this money for arts. Let's start our own art school. That's how it started. Nova Scotia College of Art and Design. I mean, it's legendary. It's a legendary school. And so I got my bachelor's BFA there, and then Nova Scotia, at the time shared a lot of staff with CalArts because, like, John Baldessari would teach there. And then Eric Fischl was actually a student at Nova Scotia. But I don't know if you know who Eva Hess was. She was, like, an artist. And plus, it was Canadian and it was free. The whole thing was like a hundred dollars. So it didn't even cost my parents anything.

[Podcast Host]

So I was going to ask that because one of the things you say when you do interviews or talk is that really, money wasn't your motivator.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Never. And not good at it.

[Podcast Host]

But yet you've managed to actually have a successful life. Right?

[Kim Hastreiter]

So I think, yeah, but not through money. I never. I'm, like, kind of through my friends, you know, But I never made money in anything.

[Podcast Host]

But, you know, if I was a young person now coming out in a world today that feels like money is so the driver for so many people, what would you say to somebody who is younger, like, about prioritizing money or not?

[Kim Hastreiter]

You have to prioritize your happiness, not money.

[Podcast Host]

But how are you supposed to pay your bills?

[Kim Hastreiter]

First you have to find your gift. That's really important. What are. What is your gift? Every single one of us has a gift.

[Podcast Host]

What's your gift?

[Kim Hastreiter]

I. I'm really good. Like, connector, like, people and ideas. And my gift isn't so easily described in words. And that's actually what my next book is about. It's called work, and it's about not being one thing. So it was kind of hard. I thought I was going to be an artist. I went to all these art schools. After Nova Scotia, I went to CalArts.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kim Hastreiter]

And I was supposed to go right in the art world. But when I, you know, John Baldessari, he was, like, my biggest supporter. He loved my work. He called the Whitney LA artist. I had, like, amazing people behind me, and they all love my work. But I came to New York and not one of the women that I went to school with got into a gallery. It was only the boys. It was like a boys club. And I was a punk. And I got pissed off. And I was kind of like, fuck you, art world. I don't want to be part of this.

[Podcast Host]

So how did you then decide to pivot?

[Kim Hastreiter]

So even when I went to CalArts, I started making friends with people who weren't artists. And then the people who were artists that I made friends with were, like, filmmakers and doing crazy things. That was right when video got invented. It was literally 1973. I started making video art. I started doing these things with multiple videos that were kind of similar to the paintings that I was doing. It was. I was addressing this certain thing in my mind, and I kept thinking, like, I don't know if I could be an artist. That's just like. Because people love my paintings. So they were like, oh, keep doing the paintings. Keep doing. And I would, like, keep doing them. But I was kind of like, well, I don't want to do this. Keep doing this. These paintings.

[Podcast Host]

Why not?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Same paintings. Because it wasn't interesting to me.

[Podcast Host]

Something didn't satisfy.

[Kim Hastreiter]

I mean, I don't want to keep doing pain. Like, that's the thing about the art world. If someone loves something you do, they're just like, oh, keep doing it. Because they thought they could sell it. I don't know. Whatever. People loved my paintings. They went crazy for my paintings. But I was kind of like, how many times can I say the same thing? And even with my videos, I was saying the same thing in my videos that I was saying in my paintings. It was this concept of space, and I had this whole thing going. Like, if you looked at my videos, you could see the connection to my paintings.

[Podcast Host]

So how do you then pivot?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, so just the anger of, like, going to New York and getting rejected, which I'm always getting rejected. I've gotten rejected, like, every.

[Podcast Host]

And you don't take it personally?

[Kim Hastreiter]

No, I just get mad. And then, because I have a vision in my mind, and I am very stubborn, and when I see something in my mind and no one sees it, it drives me fucking crazy.

[Podcast Host]

So you're determined to make it happen?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah, I will do anything to make it happen. And if you Won't help me. You. I will do it myself. So I spent my whole life and my whole career diy. I did everything myself. So when I moved to New York with Joey Arias, the performer, we drove in my dragon wagon across country and we stayed at my mom's house in New Jersey when we first got here. And Joey had nothing to do with the art world. He was, like, in a rock band and he was like a comedian. He was working in a frame store. I mean, he was like. But he did love fashion. I had this whole crowd of friends around Joey, none of whom were in the art world. And I was so pissed off at the art world that I would go out with all these kids. And then the Mud Club happened. I would be going to the Mud Club, but it was all these other type of artists that were mixing things up. So I moved downtown with Joey. We got a sublet for like a hundred dollars a month or something.

[Podcast Host]

It's crazy to think about.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Joey got the first job. He got a job at Fiorucci. So he's like, kim, you should work near Firucci. And someone else told me about this job that was available in this clothing store owned by Betsy Johnson and this other woman. It's called Betsy Bunkey Nene. It was this really cute store on Madison Avenue, and it was, like, bohemian, owned by these, like, bohemians. Bunky was the owner with Betsy Johnson, who was also like. Bunky was a Rockefeller. So me and my friend Branka, who I went to college with, both got jobs as salesgirls there. That's where I learned about avant garde clothing. Joey was working at Fiorucci down the street, and he became, like, a big star at Fiorucci. He was, like, the best salesman, but he was meeting, like, the Queen of Spain or, like, movie stars would all go there. Everybody loved Ferucci and everyone loved Joey, though. Joey became really famous. We met Salvador Dali. I mean, we met all these crazy people. And even at Betsy Bunchinini, all these famous people like Barbra Streisand would shop there. And like. Like Nora Ephron I became friends with. She was my customer. Jackie Kennedy was my customer. I mean, she was married to Aristotle and NASA's at the time and lived around the corner. So it was all, like, these women. It was women's clothes. And that was where I first found, like, kind of the Japanese, like Kanzai Yamamoto and all the France Andre V. There was all these avant garde designers that I got really into. I got really into fashion. But meanwhile, I still had my art thing. Going. But I didn't have a studio. I didn't have any place to make art. And I didn't really fit into the art world. I was, fuck you. I hate you, art world. I don't want to be part of you. At that point. I had this wonderful nana. My mother's mother, who I was really close to. She died right after, kind of, I moved to New York, and she left me 20 or $25,000. Wow. But it took, like, a year to get the money. And so I was kind of like. I remember saying to my mother, I can quit my job selling clothes, because it wasn't that fun selling clothes. And my mother was like, no, you're not doing that. You have to take the money and you have to buy a loft. Because in those days, soho and Tribeca were, like, kind of industrial places, and they started this program for artists. If you were an artist, you could get, like, a really cheap loft buy, and then you had to bring it up to code, and then you'd be tax free for 10 years. It was like this really good deal for art. So all these artists were buying up these buildings in soho first, and then

[Podcast Host]

it went to when artists still lived in soho.

[Kim Hastreiter]

So there was this art guy named Henry Galzeller who was friends with Andy Warhol. He became, like, the head of the cultural guru of New York, and he worked for the government, and he set up this artist program. And you had to prove that you were an artist, and if you got a certificate, you were allowed to buy one of these. And so a lot of artists bought whole buildings, and then they sold off floors. My mother said, you're going to take that money. You're going to buy a loft. In those days, you could buy a loft for $15,000.

[Podcast Host]

And that's where you started. Paper in that loft.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yes, exactly. So I was living on Prince and West Broadway in this, like, kind of shitty tenement with a tub in the kitchen. But then when my grandmother died, I started looking through the Village Voice, and I found this place on Lisponard Street. SoHo was already. I remember looking at a whole floor in SoHo, and it was like, $10,000, and every week the price will be going up. It was crazy. It was like this gold rush, okay? So I went to try. I found this place on Lispanar Street. It was amazing. It was a vitamin factory. And it was 16,000. And I bought it, and I brought my mother to look at it because it was, like, shitty. It didn't even have a floor. Had these machines and it was like a factory, but it had six windows looking at the Empire State Building. And six windows looking at the Empire at the World Trade Center. It was beautiful and had these beautiful curved ceil. And I bought it. I remember I used car paint to paint the kitchen. I put Astroturf down. I was just like, kind of. It was fun.

[Podcast Host]

So what made you decide to do paper?

[Kim Hastreiter]

I was still working at Bessie Bunchanini. Okay. When I got the loft. But then I met Bill Cunningham. Cause he used to stand.

[Podcast Host]

He's a photographer.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. So Bill Cunningham used to stand on the street of Madison Avenue and 59th Street. That was like her 60th street, rather. And I used to dress crazy because I would always be coming from the clubs. And Bill started photographing me because he loved street photography.

[Podcast Host]

That's what he did.

[Kim Hastreiter]

And I dressed crazy. I was dressing crazy. He started, like, chasing me. And then he started, like, waiting for me at the subway. And we kind of became friends. And then I saw him downtown in the flea market on Canal street one weekend. I was like, what are you doing here? He said, oh, child. I like. I shoot people here. What do you. You know? So we became friends. And every day I would see him, he would take my pictures. He had a column in the New York Times. Sometimes my picture would be in there. But Bill said to me one day, how do cool people know what to do? You don't read the New York Times to find out what to do. And there was no, like, timeout that was too straight, you know, for us. So all there was was the Village Voice, which was kind of a hippie rag. And so that was, like. The demographic wasn't really stylish of it. So there was this newspaper called the soho Weekly News. It was fabulous and had a style section in it. And it was kind of like you would buy it every Wednesday. And there was this calendar in the middle. And you do plan your entire week. What club, what bands were playing, what art shows were opening. And you just. It was like, the guru. It was. It. So Bill kind of worked, had a little secret column. And he called himself the Snapper. He didn't use his name because he was working for the New York Times. And so he said, oh, the style editor, Annie Flanders, quit. They actually had a big fight there. So he said, they're looking for a style editor. I think you would be a good style editor. So I was like, well, I don't know anything about being an editor. You know, I'm an artist. He said, you're perfect. You live downtown. You dress crazy. I found out later they wanted to hire him, and he didn't want the job, but he had to find someone for them to hire, and they loved him, so he made them hire me. But anyway, I got the job with Branka, this girl Branka, who I went to CalArts with, and we split the job. I remember we each got like 150 a week. I think the job paid 300 a week, something like that. But it was also. It was downtown, and it was really fun. It was really, really wild. That's where I met David Hershkovitz, who was my partner, who started Paper with. And, I mean, there was amazing people there.

[Podcast Host]

But there's, like, almost two lessons in this, right, which you don't think about because it's your story. But as I listen to you, it's two things I take away. One is that you, even though you were like, I know nothing about it, you were willing to try it and give it your own.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, just because I didn't have. I didn't know what else to do. I hated the art world. I didn't want to sell clothes. That's what my mother even said, like, what are you doing? You've been there two and a half years. She was kind of like, you didn't go to art school for, like, eight years to be a sales girl. My mother even said, do you want. Do you want to own a store? Is that what you want? But she. She was, like, open to it. If I had said yes.

[Podcast Host]

The second thing about you that's really interesting is. And you talk about how you collect people, but relationships have. Clearly is a key part of your equation. Right. Because Bill plucks you out in this story and helps you find the next thing. And you're sort of living in this, you know. Yes. Downtown scene, but still lots of interesting people. How do you make these relationships?

[Kim Hastreiter]

I mean, I only, like, spend time with people that I think are contributing something.

[Podcast Host]

Why does that matter to you?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Because I don't want to waste my time. Like, life is short, you know? I mean, I'm 74 now, and I, like. I'm stricter than ever about how I spend my time. Just same with my stuff. And I just. At a certain point when I was young, I was like. And I had this friend who was really smart who said to me, everything you buy has to be incredible. Never buy anything that's not incredible. And I was kind of like, oh, okay. So in other words, whatever. If I buy salt for my kitchen, if I buy A mug for my kitchen. It has to be like, fantastic. So he kind of this friend of mine who died of aids, but he instilled that thing in me, like, you know, you can't have any mediocrity in your life. So I became really picky about everything that I surrounded myself with. I got the best apartment. I do have a good eye that I inherited from my mother. And what I wore, what designers I loved. So I went to the soho News not knowing anything. And the Soho News was like, outrageous. You didn't get there till one in the afternoon. Cause you were at the Mud Club the whole night. You had to go get your art director at the Mud Club in the middle of the night. It was a weekly, okay? You can't imagine what doing a weekly is like. It's like. And I had it.

[Podcast Host]

I can. Cause we do the podcast weekly.

[Kim Hastreiter]

So a lot of work. I was responsible for like 15 pages every week. I was Michael Musto's editor. This other. I was the editor for food. I had to cover it. And then fashion. But fashion was like style to me. So I started coming up with these crazy ideas. And Keith Haring I became friends with. I used to go to Club 57. I was friends with like that whole crew. And Joey also was involved with Club 57, with Keith Haring and John Sex. All the people that died. Quang Chi, like that. You don't know who they are, but they were amazing. And photographers and artists and. Oh, God, I did these great ideas. I used to transform people. Robert Mapplethorpe shot, shot for me. I mean. But the Soho News only lasted for two years. I was there. And then one day we went to the soho News for. And we get there at like noon, literally. We had a drug dealer coming in. Everyone was doing like, drugs. If the Sex Pistols were in town, whoever was in town would come to the Soho News to see it because it was like the hot thing. So what happened in the soho News all of a sudden, one day we got to work and everyone was like, oh, they sold the Soho News yesterday.

[Podcast Host]

Who'd they sell it to?

[Kim Hastreiter]

They sold it to some English guy named Lord Harnsworth, who was like kind of a Daily Mail guy, who was a right wing newspaper publisher from England. That like, we were like, what? We immediately hated them. And we were like, oh, shit. It all went to pot. And then we tortured them so much that one day we came in and they closed the soho News. Okay, Scott clothes. And then everybody just took the tables. Xerox machine. Everyone was walked out with, like. We stripped it like termites. We took every. Stole everything. Like, I remember we.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing.

[Kim Hastreiter]

It was the best. And then I was kind of like, oh, I don't have a job now. What do I do? So I went. I went to Conde Nast because I thought, oh, maybe I'll do this. Maybe I could get some.

[Podcast Host]

That is hysterical.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, but I didn't know. And so the style. I could do style for Conde Nastement. So I went and I met with. This is before Vanity Fair was just starting. And the first editors were like, oh, we want you to do stuff for this new magazine, Vanity Fair, that we're starting. So I was like, okay. Because also, they paid you a lot of money. And I had a column in this magazine called Mademoiselle that they gave me that was a Conde Nast magazine. It's kind of like a magazine for young women. And I did this crazy streetwear column. And then I had a column in GQ also. I started doing freelance, but Conde Nast was, like, so hideous. Every single thing I did, they ruined. And I was like, fuck you. No way.

[Podcast Host]

We're back to the fuck you.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. So I hated Conde Nast. The same time David Hershkovitz was like, Soho was kind of becoming more popular. There was, like, restaurants opening, and we thought they were so stupid, those people that, like, closed it, you know? So David was like, let's start another weekly. Like, we need a weekly in New York, but one that has style. It took us two years to try and raise money and get rejected by every single person.

[Podcast Host]

What was so hard about that?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Because, like, we met these art directors, and they did, like a. We did a. What's it called? Like a.

[Podcast Host]

Like a mockup.

[Kim Hastreiter]

A mock up. It was so fabulous. I still have it. And then everyone liked it, but they were like, is it a music magazine? I'm like, well, not really. Is it art magazine? Well, not really. Is it a fashion magazine that's sort of.

[Podcast Host]

You. Like, not one thing, but lots of things.

[Kim Hastreiter]

I know we kept saying it's culture, but they didn't understand what it was because they were like, well, what exists that it's like, like. And we're like, it doesn't. So what happened was, finally David came in one morning and said he bought this Michael Jackson poster on the subway. And he said, we should just do a poster. Let's just start it as a poster. So I went to this printer, and it was gonna cost $4,000 to print. And we had all the SoHo news, like, distribution. We had all of the infrastructure at our fingertips. We had these two crazy art directors who worked at the New York Times. They came up with a poster design, and we decided to call it Paper. We each put in a thousand dollars and we gave the first ads for free. We made these 20 ads, and if you bought one ad, you would get the first one free, and then you get the second one you would pay. And that's how we started. And we started in my house on Lisbon Art Street.

[Podcast Host]

How many years did you have paper before you sold it?

[Kim Hastreiter]

33.

[Podcast Host]

Long time.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, we sold it in 2017, and we started in 1984.

[Podcast Host]

You know, when I first moved to New York, in there in the mid-80s, I mean, that was the bible of downtown. Right. And to your point, it was everything. It wasn't just one thing.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

What was the lesson you took away from that experience?

[Kim Hastreiter]

First of all, we weren't really journalists. We weren't really publishers. I was an artist. My partner David was kind of like, we're all in the art world kind of down there, and everything is converging. The artists would do something with Debbie Harry, and then they do, like, something with Vivienne Westwood and Malcolm McLaren were kind of our heroes because they were doing fashion and music and everything was mixing up. So that was just a really important part of the culture that we wanted to represent in Paper.

[Podcast Host]

So you sort of built a media entity that was really a community.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Totally.

[Podcast Host]

And why do you think community matters to you?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Because it just was kind of like, I hate journalism, where, like, you get press releases and then you hire some writer to write a story. To me, that's like the worst. I would rather find a person who's obsessed with a crazy genre of film and have them write about what they know about and are embedded in and are obsessed with. So that was our philosophy at paper. Get people all these crazy creative people, and we would teach them. David would teach them how to write, and then we would find, you know, AIDS was happening. We did the first aids. Colum. What happened was when people were diagnosed, to me, some. The thing that really stands out in my memory of that is if you were diagnosed, then you knew you were going to die. You were going to either die in six months or a year. But, you know, to me, the wildest. I mean, I had friends that all of a sudden proclaimed that they were gay, they were straight. I had friends that killed themselves in various ways, like, just to how people dealt with being hiv. Like Keith Haring, when he was hiv, he started like he was Like a maniac, like producing as much work, like mountains of work. You know, artists would be like, just go into production mode because they knew they were going to die. So that's like wild, you know, and they were all in their 20s, like, what does a 20 year old do when they know they're going to die? And then a lot of people who didn't have their families rejected them. Right. So we would visit them and we would, you know, try and help them. And there was a million. Fundraiser, you know, we would have fundraisers. And I have this beautiful David Wojnarowicz sculpture that I got at a fundraiser for a mutual friend of his before, you know, he died.

[Podcast Host]

He was, you're describing community of like people coming together in what was a very difficult time.

[Kim Hastreiter]

You know, it was also like Mayor Koch who was gay and like, he wouldn't say he was gay and he was like, we were of course furious at Ronald Reagan, you know, all the, all of the political people who wouldn't acknowledge it. And Larry Kramer, who was like my. Became my friend and neighbor.

[Podcast Host]

So let me ask you, because now here we are in 2026, you know, at a very different world than what you're describing. When you reflect back on that time and sort of where we are, what. What do you think about?

[Kim Hastreiter]

I think Michael Stife really said it good in my book. I don't know if you read the part about Michael about PTSD and how, you know, AIDS really gave him like this huge PTSD. Then when 9, 11 happened, it brought it back. And then when this Covid happened, it brought it back. And now. But I think that, I mean, now is unlike. Forget it. Now is just beyond. It's like so beyond.

[Podcast Host]

And how do you process that? Because your reaction actually if I go back to Covid is not to sustain still, it's to go, do, you know, answer questions in the park, start a newspaper. Right. Like, you don't sit still.

[Kim Hastreiter]

No. And so this one. Well, I mean, I do think that you have to. That art is really important and that you have to be creative and you have to try and figure out how your gift can help lift people up

[Podcast Host]

after 30 some years of paper. I mean, you were. Paper. Yeah. What was that like? Sort of that loss of identity when you sold it?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, I don't know if. I mean, I've told this story, but I sold paper the week my mother died. And it was like a really crazy week. It was just by accident. Those two things happened the same week. When you sell a business, you sell the Business. And then you have. They have to do due diligence for a month, and then they come back and you close. And when my mother died, I remember she was living on Chamber street and this assisted living, they said, well, you know, you have to get everything out of here in a month from now. So I had this month that was. I was a little bit in shock. You know, I was happy because I didn't want. I didn't. I was not happy at paper because it was just not fun anymore, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Why wasn't it funnier?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Because the Internet kind of became more about counting people and celebrity, and I am not into celebrities.

[Podcast Host]

Even though you have a lot of famous friends?

[Kim Hastreiter]

No, but I. To me, celebrities like me maybe because I treat them like normal people. I always thought celebrities just want to be treated like everybody, normal people like nobodies, you know, and we always had the saying at paper, we treat famous people like nobodies, and nobody's like somebody's. But I like the talent. So, you know, especially, I really don't like, you know, untalented celebrities. I just go for talent, whether you're famous or not. So, anyway, so I had this month and then that one day when we closed that week, all of a sudden I had, like, these boxes. So it really gave me a job to do for, like, six months, was go through all this stuff. So it wasn't like, as big a shock. I mean, it was kind of like. It was a relief because I was trying to sell paper for two years. No one would buy it. They wanted me to stay and, like, kind of help them with the transition, and that didn't work. I. I've heard a lot of times that founders don't work.

[Podcast Host]

It doesn't work.

[Kim Hastreiter]

It doesn't work when you stay because people don't know you used to be the boss and now you're not the boss. You know, it doesn't matter.

[Podcast Host]

That's messy.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah, exactly. Definitely. So that didn't work.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kim Hastreiter]

But I then had to figure out what to do with all this stuff. And so then I was going through everything, and it was like, history lesson, you know. Oh, my God.

[Podcast Host]

Was that the founding of stuff?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. That's how come I. And I had to be the most brutal editor. Also because I didn't have room for all this crap that took, like, six months to do.

[Podcast Host]

Was there ever a moment in there where you were like, I miss being the founder of paper?

[Kim Hastreiter]

No, because when I stopped, I had this idea called Amazing Unlimited, and I want to open a restaurant because all these people always wanted me to open restaurants because I was really into the food scene. I knew all the chefs and people had asked me, and I was like, I'd never want another business. I never want to manage people. I don't want anything to do with, like, a business. So I always said no. Then I was like, oh, I want to start a nonprofit where all the money goes to people with ideas, like amazing ideas. And so I would give grants. I had this crazy idea that I would open a cafeteria with all my chef friends, get everything donated, and 100% of the money would go to people who submitted amazing creative ideas to me. And you get like $10,000 to make the idea happen. I worked on that for like a year or a year and a half. And then when I went to get my nonprofit, I couldn't get a nonprofit because they won't give nonprofits if you're going to start a business. It's like a whole thing became really complicated. And then Covid happened. So all that was going on simultaneously. But I always need, like, a big. I have, like, three projects right now driven by ideas.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, I'm going to look here because I have a couple of rapid fire questions I want to ask you. But I also made a note. You and I have been around long enough to have seen many versions of things. We still remember the rotary phone. You said AI is like a slow motion car crash. What did you mean by that?

[Kim Hastreiter]

It's like when you see something that you know is going to be horrible and destructive, but people don't see that. I'm good at. I'm really like an early. I can predict things early.

[Podcast Host]

How do you work around cynicism? Because that's something you say you do because you're not cynical, even though you've seen a lot of things.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah, I try and help. I try and help people.

[Podcast Host]

You say good people know good people. And, you know, we know lots of people who are not good friends. Sharers. You are an incredible friend. Sharer. What gives you joy about that?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, I find amazing people and then I want them to meet other amazing people. So it's just like. I mean, I have introduced a few people that got married, but it's not even like that. It's just like collaborating. Like, I have the most, like, jewels people. And then if I find someone who's a jewel, I love to know who they think are jewels, who are their people that they think are amazing. And so then I want to meet all those people, and then I want my amazing People to meet their amazing people. Right. And it's worked. I have all these. And now the friends are becoming all mushed together.

[Podcast Host]

I love your rule about collecting people. You say no and no transactional relations.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Totally.

[Podcast Host]

How do you live by that?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Well, you know, I think when you're 20, you don't really live by that as much. Or when you're doing ambition and all that, maybe you have to, like, be nice to an asshole. But, I mean, I just never was good at it. I'm not good.

[Podcast Host]

Like, I'm done with that.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah. But now forget it. Like, when you get older, past 60 or now I'm 74. Like, no, no. I mean, I won't even have lunch with someone I think is, you know,

[Podcast Host]

that's a gift I'm totally taking.

[Kim Hastreiter]

But I love young people, so I do go liberal on the young people. So if someone's like, 20, I'll be very open to inviting them over. Or, like, 18, you know, I love teaching. I'm dying to teach. But of course, all the schools don't understand what I'm talking about. Not one school, like, NYU completely rejected me. Everyone rejected.

[Podcast Host]

It was gonna work.

[Kim Hastreiter]

No, they all reject me because they're like, the same thing. Like, what shelf are you going to be on? Like, what's the boxer you never fit on a shelf?

[Podcast Host]

That's actually sort of like, I think

[Kim Hastreiter]

I would be the best teacher. And I love to teach.

[Podcast Host]

But you do teach.

[Kim Hastreiter]

When you get old, you're. You have all this stuff in your brain. I have all this really good stuff. I just want to get it out before I die and teach people, give people what I have, what I've accumulated.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, we're gonna do rapid fire.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

So first thing that comes to mind.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

When was the last time you cried?

[Kim Hastreiter]

This morning, probably. I cry every day now. It's, like, too much.

[Podcast Host]

What was the biggest mess that actually led to the most growth?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Probably, like, that day that I got when I got all the boxes delivered from paper and just, like, I couldn't even walk in my house.

[Podcast Host]

What would you tell someone to do before they're 35?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Buy an apartment. Buy something. I don't care if it's in, like, Flushing or whatever. Just, like, get something that you own that's, like, where you're living. Because that saved my life. Kind of, like, grounds around.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that was definitely my mom's advice. What career myth do you think is a waste of time?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Anything that's money driven.

[Podcast Host]

What would you tell someone who's having a crisis in confidence.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Find your gift. To find your gift. And you might not even be able to define it, but every single person is born with a gift. And if you can figure out your gift, what are you better at than the next guy? What do you do better? There's something. I know there's something. It could be your cook. It could be anything. Find your gift. And when you find your gift, like, lean into it and build around it.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, final question. What would be your Walk on song?

[Kim Hastreiter]

My song?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you know, like you're gonna give a keynote. What's the song you want them to play as you walk on?

[Kim Hastreiter]

Oh, God, I don't know. It's either David Byrne or Pink Martini. Okay. You know, I like that.

[Podcast Host]

I can't thank you enough for coming. I was such a gift from Ikram to me. Both of you good friend sharers.

[Kim Hastreiter]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode with Kim. She inspires me. Every conversation I have with her. Remember, like, listen and share so that we can share more messy parts. And remember that really, the growth comes from the messy.